Potassium nitrate treatment - 0.2 - 0.5% - How long

[petershaw]

Title says it all, just curious about the duration?

I read 30 minutes, that sound right?


Diplarrena latifolia is the seed I am wondering about

Peter

[CG100]

There is a reasonable amount online from various studies and what they tell you in total, is that experimentation (concentration and dwell) may pay dividends. In other words, there is too little actual knowledge, and that ideal soaking conditions varies species to species.

Experimentation would be great if anyone has large numbers of seed, but otherwise...................

For what it is worth, I treated some Diplarrena seed for 24 hours in 3% this last weekend. Time will tell.

Personally? I'd be surprised, within logical reason, if seeds could be left for too long (in other words, don't strectch the soak to days upon days, but otherwise......................). I have seen concentrations used (not recommended) from around 1% to5%., and not as low as you mention.

[MarcR]

I had good success with both D. latifolia and D. moraea @ 4.5 tsp KNO3/ 128 fl oz (3.85l) water for 20-25 min.  I was advised by friends in Australia that longer times can be counter-productive.

D. latifolia gave 195 seedlings from 200 seeds. D. moraea gave 89 seedlings from 100 seeds in 11 weelks @ 70 F (21.1 C).

Seed was purchased from Wild Seed Tasmania.

[CG100]

I have just weighed a few seperate tspn of nitrate here and they vary 5-6g. 

That gives a concentration of roughly 0.6-0.7% at Marc's dilution rate, using the fine griity nitrate here.

The hassle with any failures is that if that batch is all you have, you can never be sure of whether the seed was dud to begin with. So far as I have seen, D. seeds tend to be sold in 10's-20's in Europe - so not worth splitting and not cheap enough to try several packs.

[MarcR]

Wild Seed Tasmania offers 5gm of D. latifolia or D. moraea for 9.35 AUD.
That is about $5.62 or 6.08 Euros. 5gm is about 300 seeds
They offer an extensive catalog of Tasmanian seed at similarly reasonable prices. A phyto costs 36AUD ($22.85  or 23.04 euros)

I find that this allows me to attempt to grow species that tend to be somewhat difficult without spending a fortune.

[CG100]

Wild Seed Tasmania offers 5gm of D. latifolia or D. moraea for 9.35 AUD.
That is about $5.62 or 6.08 Euros. 5gm is about 300 seeds
They offer an extensive catalog of Tasmanian seed at similarly reasonable prices. A phyto costs 36AUD ($22.85  or 23.04 euros)

I find that this allows me to attempt to grow species that tend to be somewhat difficult without spending a fortune.

Then add postage, then add around 30% of the total cost to import them into the UK - so around Euros 50, maybe a little more, for two species in this case - that is a a LOT of money and even if germination was great, I have no idea how anyone would be able to sell them in the UK - the demand would be minute.

At least one of the species is available in specialised nurseries here at far less for a large plant.

[MarcR]

I almost never buy only 2 species. Transportation costs are not much more than seed bought from domestic sellers. With my small lots permit I don't need the phyto. In any case, seeing 30 or 40 of each blooming in large plantings is quite worth the expense
 

[Martin Bohnet]

Actually, I think you're too optimistic that the title says it all - I didn't know potassium nitrate to be usefull - I tried the Australian species from one of the recent EXes with a very expensive "smoke disk" and it was a complete failure - partly also because there was only a very rudimentary description of what to do with it - 30 minutes? I went overnight and poured the soaking water into the soil afterwards....  Chemically thinking I guess KNO3 would be a common ash component so it fits...

But if anyone has good descriptions or links how to dose such helpers I'm all here for it.

PS: I've split the garden size discussion to a new discussion, found here

[CG100]

There are numbers of peer-reviewed papers online about both smoke treatment (via papers that have been soaked in "smoke water") and treatment with potasium nitrate. They show improved, often dramatically improved, germination in various seeds.

I have used Kirstenboch smoke primers for various Proteaceae that were supposed to be slow/difficult to germinate, and had perfectly good germination, but I ran no controls.............

The Kirstenboch smoke primers don't contain any ash residues - there was an article in Veldt and Flora well over 20 years ago, showing how the papers were made - they were burning invasive eucalypts and acacias, a bit like charcoal burning, so more like roasting than burning, and bubbling the smoke through water, which the filter papers were then soaked in, and then dried.

[Diane Whitehead]

I once tried smoking a few potted seeds in my woodstove that had been burning and was still smoky.  Unfortunely, the fire wasn't completely out and the peat-based compost caught fire.

[petershaw]

Yesterday I sowed the seeds, so we will see.

three small treatments of 25~ seeds

0.5% KNO3, Smoke paper, plain water

24 hr soak.

[MarkMazer]

Has anyone tried a liquid smoke treatment?  Related: https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/23/20/12468

[CG100]

Has anyone tried a liquid smoke treatment?  Related: https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/23/20/12468

As above.

[MarkMazer]

As: https://www.amazon.com/WRIGHTS-Hickory-Liquid-Smoke-3-5/dp/B00BHNV8N2

[petershaw]

Update:

treatment = germinated seeds
water soak = 0
K2O soak = 2
smoke disk soak = 5

I think there were 25 seeds so not great germination but perhaps under less than optimal conditions, smoke helps with germination.