Help ID virused plants

[NewGardener]

Hello everyone

I inherited a small garden, with some decades old clumps, but I see some foliage that make me think of virus. There's just not really much information about it besides some species like cannas, and it kind of looks like thrips damage too, which i did found on some plants. 
However, it does look more like mosaic virus than thrips damage on some species to me so, I would be very grateful if you could help me out on what is just pest damage and on what I should trash out not to infect new plants.

 My amaryllis belladonna grow and flower fine/ well but after a closer inspection they show a light green mosaic pattern on foliage similar to mosaic virus in Hippeastrum. Besides that, leaf tips seem to curl too much.
It's not leaf senescence, it's present on virtually all leaves at different degrees.

They look fine at distance, but at a closer look..


Iris...
All plants of mostly 1 variety, maybe only this variety within 4, have this pattern on virtually all leaves, old, young, still unfurled ones. 

Others just look like this, right by their side:

 

[Uli]

Your question is not easy to answer. The leaves do indeed look suspicious for a virus infection but I am not sure. Did you use a lens to search for thrips or other critters which might be causing damage to the leaves?
You do not state where your garden is, could it be a borderline climate for Amaryllis belladonna? Or did they suffer from intermediate drought?If the clumps are decades old and were neglected in the past there might also be some nutrient deficiency causing the symptoms. I grow many Amaryllis belladonna in different places of my garden and some, on poorer soil show the same symptoms. All were purchased from the same source. On the other hand it is well known that virus infection can be masked by fertilizing.
Depending on how attached you are towards these massive clumps a laboratory test could be considered, no idea how much it would cost. Personally I would find it easier but still painful to get rid of the Iris but removing all the belladonnas would be heartbreaking......
Not sure if my answer is really helpful.....

[CG100]

The plants look very congested, if the garden is very new to you, I would just feed the plants very heavily this year with something that includes trace elements, seperating/breaking-up clumps if you like (although I would not), but see what you get next year.

Most of what I see could be fungus/rust and nutritional effects.

[NewGardener]

Thanks Uli and CG100
I found thrips like damage on some gladiolus and dutch iris, sort of scratched looking. So I dug some amaryllis and at closer inspection i saw thrips on them in the inner part of leaves. They are a magnet to snails too, even with constant removal.
I'm in coastal Portugal, the climate is good for them. Plenty of rain all year except summer, sunny, they are in full sun to east-south exposure, good draining soil, rare and light frosts.
Last year i moved several amaryllis and iris to better places to propagate them. Amaryllis are in 4 different places and they all look the same. I actually fertilized them monthly quite heavily  with a 12-17-17 npk fertilizer out of frustration because of that imperfect foliage. Both species grew better, actually summer blooming iris varieties are already flowering in April and they burnt to the ground last september, but again the problem is still present in both species.
The photos shown for both are the worse they got, nothing very severe as seen on some photos online, but very similar to the patterns i see shown as virus. Besides that the damage though variable among plants and different leaves, it was present through all growing season.

Well, the iris I already discarded most of the affected ones, well over a hundred of flowering sized new fans plus the older rizomes. Ironically they were the most common variety. But I had and have way too many anyways.
The amaryllis are all affected, over 100 bulbs. Heartbreaking is a good word to describe it...
I dug them and will keep them far away on systemic insectide, and spinosad for thrips, if the pattern continues with better pest control I'll just destroy them.
A couple of years ago i got a dozen small bulbs from an abandoned site, I went to check them and they show the same signs... as i planted them near the ones I had I maybe spread it among them.

Uli, the ones you have in poor soil show that light green mosaic pattern too? To make me feel more confused, i bought a few weeks ago a already flowering small narcissus, kept away from these plants and this a photo of it's foliage:

Narcissus and agapanthus kept among the affected amaryllis show absolutely no problem at all. I feel in a witch hunt sometimes.

CG100, firt amaryllis photo is recent (mid spring) of the half shade ones, recent rain storms beat them hard.
About the fertilization, most people here keep amaryllis in the poorest soil, competing with weeds, with no watering or fertilizer ever and I haven't seen this problem in them, if with a micronutrient deficiency it would be caused by excess of npk fertilization i think...

Sorry for the huge post, thanks everyone.

[CG100]

The most recent photo' certainly looks like virus.

Over the years people have asked me several times "why have my daff's stopped flowering?", and each time they have had congested clumps that haven't been separated for years, or fed.
After feeding heavily 2-3 times over one growing season with a high potash (usually a tomato) fertiliser, they have flowered very well the following year, but they do need feeding over one growing season.

That said, if this is your second season there and the plants look broadly similar, virus does seem a good bet. Presumably carried by thrips.
Can you compare to plants in other gardens close-by?

In the iris, it could be yellow-spot virus but if you look for pic's online, symptoms vary massively.

[Uli]

If you live in Portugal you probably have the pale pink traditional variety of Amaryllis belladonna in your garden. I have this form, too but most of the other ones are the Rose Foncé form from the now closed nursery Bulb Argence in France. I also have some other named varieties in smaller numbers. I will go and check tomorrow (weather permitting....) and will let you know. The named cultivars look healthy and dark green and especially the Rose Foncé foliage is broader and much taller than the traditional one.
Bye for now 

[NewGardener]

Thanks CG100
I bought those narcissus (tete a tete i think) from last photo less than a month ago and they were kept away from the other plants, so they likely already came with it. All 6 bulbs were like that. I think I would never noticed it if I did't have the ongoing issue the other plants. I thought I was just being paranoid. I pulled and trashed so many plants in the last 2 weeks that I don't feel into going to the garden.

I usually don't let plants get into very congested clumps, my flowering issue with narcissus is probably more with chilling hours. In a exposed sunny harm spot they just produce leaves. Some varieties don't seem to do fine here.

I looked closely (with clean hands n clothes) at a few people's plants and i saw both belladonnas and iris with normal homogeneous coloured leaves, iris with only clearly stripped or mosaic pattern, or mixed with normal ones. 
In one place belladonnas had the same mosaic as i have but less noticeable and were mixed with plants with normal leaves. Most were affected and the normal ones were mostly in the same clump.
Normal and patterned plants together point out more to virus than pest damage i guess?...

The most recent photo' certainly looks like virus.

Over the years people have asked me several times "why have my daff's stopped flowering?", and each time they have had congested clumps that haven't been separated for years, or fed.
After feeding heavily 2-3 times over one growing season with a high potash (usually a tomato) fertiliser, they have flowered very well the following year, but they do need feeding over one growing season.

That said, if this is your second season there and the plants look broadly similar, virus does seem a good bet. Presumably carried by thrips.
Can you compare to plants in other gardens close-by?

In the iris, it could be yellow-spot virus but if you look for pic's online, symptoms vary massively.

[NewGardener]

If you live in Portugal you probably have the pale pink traditional variety of Amaryllis belladonna in your garden. I have this form, too but most of the other ones are the Rose Foncé form from the now closed nursery Bulb Argence in France. I also have some other named varieties in smaller numbers. I will go and check tomorrow (weather permitting....) and will let you know. The named cultivars look healthy and dark green and especially the Rose Foncé foliage is broader and much taller than the traditional one.
Bye for now

Exactly, they all look like that traditional one. 
I think I'll just get new ones. Even though i like a lot the original one there are gorgeous and taller varieties of Xamarygias. 
Unfortunately they are not common here. 

[Uli]

If you have an issue with Narcissus not flowering and only producing leaves you may have Narcissus fly. Where in Portugal do you live? And at what elevation? My garden is near Monchique in the very south western corner of the Algarve at 350m elevation. I have planted a lot of Narcissus in the beginning only to find out that the ones with larger bulbs would either disappear completely or end up with a few thin leaves. The same applies to Habranthus, Hippeastrum and especially to Sprekelia. The smaller Narcissus like for example N. bulbocodium which are native here are not affected and interestingly the fairly large bulbs of the native N. papyraceus aren't either. There is a reason for being native.
Amaryllis belladonna and Nerine does not seem to be attacked by Narcissus flies (so far....)
I am not sure about the necessity for winter chill for Narcissus, it certainly applies to Central Asian tulips.
Commercial bulbs can always be infected with virus.....
In autumn I always have kilos of seed of Amaryllis belladonna and I would be more than happy to let you have it 

[Uli]

As promised, here are some pictures of different cultivars of Amaryllis belladonna in my garden.
I have come to the conclusion that soil quality does not really seem to matter much. The traditional local pale flowering form shows the same virus streaks like yours. I now think that it is virused. Same with Fred Meyer's White.
The other cultivars and the unnamed (and so far unflowered) seedlings seem to be unaffected. It is interesting how different the seedlings look like. Thank you for raising this topic, I was not aware of the virus in my plants.

[NewGardener]

If you have an issue with Narcissus not flowering and only producing leaves you may have Narcissus fly. Where in Portugal do you live? And at what elevation? My garden is near Monchique in the very south western corner of the Algarve at 350m elevation. I have planted a lot of Narcissus in the beginning only to find out that the ones with larger bulbs would either disappear completely or end up with a few thin leaves. The same applies to Habranthus, Hippeastrum and especially to Sprekelia. The smaller Narcissus like for example N. bulbocodium which are native here are not affected and interestingly the fairly large bulbs of the native N. papyraceus aren't either. There is a reason for being native.
...
I am not sure about the necessity for winter chill for Narcissus, it certainly applies to Central Asian tulips.

Actually only had problems with them not flowering at all a few times. Usually when planted close to a south facing wall, potted, or when heavilly shaded. Just assumed it was too warm to them but as i keep moving them almost yearly to be "winter fillers", maybe I moved them too late those times and messed with their roots.
They usually multiply well and bulbs look ok, but I'll check it better this year if they show damage. The ones I have are some regular medium sized with greyish green foliage, have no idea about variety. I'll get some smaller variety with greener foliage as I like it more and them won't get damaged by weather as easilly.
Hippeastrum are such a expensive snack for worms... really not something you want to be attacked.
I'm near Aveiro, some 15km inland, around 100m elevation i think. You must have a much nicer winter than me, and frost free.

Amaryllis belladonna and Nerine does not seem to be attacked by Narcissus flies (so far....)

Hope not. Trying nerines first time this year.

Commercial bulbs can always be infected with virus.....

Yeah, it seems. I usually only worried about cannas, but seems like it's not a rare issue with other species too.

In autumn I always have kilos of seed of Amaryllis belladonna and I would be more than happy to let you have it

I would be very gratefull! 😁 It would be a good way to get a lot of different plants and clean stock after the disaster i had with mine.

[NewGardener]

As promised, here are some pictures of different cultivars of Amaryllis belladonna in my garden.
I have come to the conclusion that soil quality does not really seem to matter much. The traditional local pale flowering form shows the same virus streaks like yours. I now think that it is virused. Same with Fred Meyer's White.
The other cultivars and the unnamed (and so far unflowered) seedlings seem to be unaffected. It is interesting how different the seedlings look like. Thank you for raising this topic, I was not aware of the virus in my plants.

Thanks Uli
I too didn't noticed much difference in different soils or after fertilization. In part shade yes, I noticed a much messier and ugly foliage, paler too i think, flowering differences i don't know because fire hit them at that time. It kiled all adult trees but I think not one belladonna died though i planted most quite exposed.

The traditional local pale flowering form shows the same virus streaks like yours. I now think that it is virused. Same with Fred Meyer's White.
The other cultivars and the unnamed (and so far unflowered) seedlings seem to be unaffected.

It's such a random pattern to be normal to them I think. I still kept the bigger ones in another place and will be more assertive with their pest control to see if it's not just pest damage, as mine had a big thrips and snail party.
Though unaffected plants and seedlings point more to virus...

It is interesting how different the seedlings look like. Thank you for raising this topic, I was not aware of the virus in my plants.

Definitely, they look very different ages.
I always assumed it as from the in them ever present snails. Only paid more attention to it because of the issue with iris, and because of agapanthus and narcissus literally among them not showing any kind of damage.

[CG100]

Maybe Amarllis are particularly suscptable to virus?
I had one from a commercial seller, so it could have been produced almost anywhere, that hung on for a few years, but was obviously virussed.

They are a house or greenhouse plant here, so the option to have large numbers does not really exist, but I have some new imports from RSA and also what should be a white - all unflowered thus far. It should be white - the supplier was a small UK nursery and it was their last year in active business, and some labels had got dislodged from pots, so they were only pretty sure that is what they sent. It has leaves far paler than bulbs with the usual pink flowers - bright lime green, so I will be extremely surprised if it does not flower white.

[NewGardener]

Maybe Amarllis are particularly suscptable to virus?
I had one from a commercial seller, so it could have been produced almost anywhere, that hung on for a few years, but was obviously virussed.

I didn't found anything about them online, only about Hippeastrum, but though as hardy as a weed, they're a challenging species to flower outside of mild winter and dry summer climates, so they're not a common comercial or even kept plant in other places, likely is that the reason.
Though a very similar plant to Hippeastrum, Amaryllis seeds don't dry and must be sown in autumn after flowering time, they don't grow well in warm greenhouse conditions I think, they take longer than Hippeastrum to flower from seed.. even here in a perfect climate for them and being a common plant they're almost always propagated from offset bulbs rather than seed. Seedlings don't sprout far from mother plants, and if weeds don't choke them, at weeding they're done as they look like grass. If bulbs ever get viruses they just get spread away with virus I think. However the sames apllies to several other species and they rarely show virus...

They are a house or greenhouse plant here, so the option to have large numbers does not really exist, but I have some new imports from RSA and also what should be a white - all unflowered thus far. It should be white - the supplier was a small UK nursery and it was their last year in active business, and some labels had got dislodged from pots, so they were only pretty sure that is what they sent. It has leaves far paler than bulbs with the usual pink flowers - bright lime green, so I will be extremely surprised if it does not flower white.

Only time will say... I think that with enough sun in winter and dryish warm condition in summer that allow bulbs to bake a little they will do fine in pots. 
After pulling these days so many of them I actually got somewhat surprised about their roots, I thought they had a much bigger and deeper root system like agapanthus. I usually moved them like small bushes without much root disturbance and they still refused to flower that year or even delayed foliage growth often.
Indestructible but finicky to flower things.