Ledebouria Agavoides help/???

[Too Many Plants!]

We're interested in a bulb-  Ledebouria Agavoides, but can't seem to find anything on it. Description as follows:  L. Agavoides, an extraordinary and very robust species with bold foliage and a large solitary bulb (no offsets). This name is an as yet unpublished if compelling name for this plant. Formerly sold as L. confusa, a related species. Bulb grows to 4" in diameter and is naturally caudiciform, happily growing mostly exposed. The glaucous leaves are broad and firm. Flowers are an odd yellowish color. Leafless in its winter dormancy when it should be kept dry and can endure light frost undercover. Keep pot-bound and grow in well-drained sandy soil in bright light.

I can't find anything on L. Agavoides, or L. Confusa on PBS. And basically nothing on the web for L. Agavoides.

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
@Robin Jangle 

Thanks

[Robin Jangle]

The description is similar to both confusa and concolor in respect of foliage and bulbs. However both of those are gregarious in that they offset freely to form clumps. Also confusa has the typical pink and green flowers.

I've heard the name being applied to concolor before. It might just be an aberrant clone that doesn't offset?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236033953_Synopsis_of_the_genus_Ledebouria_Roth_Hyacinthaceae_in_South_Africa
I don't know if you've seen this document - it's the best source of information available.

[CG100]

SANBI has many photographs of Ledebouria speceies, but could not hope to be comprehensive -  many species vary a great deal.

Ledebouria confusa | PlantZAfrica This shows and describes L. confusa to be sparingly offsetting, if at all.


Ledebouria concolor | PlantZAfrica

iNaturalist is very often useful too.

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/588830-Ledebouria-confusa  Also showing the species to be sparingly offsetting or solitary.

There are just a few photo's posted online identified as L. agavoides and they all look like confusa to me.

[Too Many Plants!]

Thank you CG100 and Robin! That helped a lot. I would Love to grow this one but being a summer rainfall winter dry species, I'm just not sure how it will do outside in the ground in our Mediterranean climate with some winter rain. Note that we typically do not get a lot of rain annually. Sometimes we may get winter rain when we're having some colder temps. My native soil is decomposed granite and generally has excellent drainage. Our valley averages 13 inches annually, with February being our highest average month with 2.8 inches.

[Robin Jangle]

It'll be fine. All the Ledebouria and other summer rain bulbs I've grown have all been exposed to our winter rain and never suffered.

[Uli]

Hello @Robin Jangle,

You make an interesting point in saying that winter dormant bulbs will tolerate Mediterranean winter rain. Do you think that I can grow Cyrtanthus falcatus outdoors? It seems to suffer in its big pot. Good drainage would not be a problem but we get quite a lot of rain here in the mountains.....

[CG100]

I have quite a few Ledebouria and several do not like to be trully dry during the winter, but how wet they would cope with........................ (everything is in a greenhouse.)
There is also a huge difference between rain and high soil moisture.

The other question would be flowering........... is that triggered by cool or dryness? Even L. socialis flowers poorly if it has no rest, but is that dry rest or cool rest, or both? And/or even related to day length?

[Too Many Plants!]

I have quite a few Ledebouria and several do not like to be trully dry during the winter, but how wet they would cope with........................ (everything is in a greenhouse.)
There is also a huge difference between rain and high soil moisture.

The other question would be flowering........... is that triggered by cool or dryness? Even L. socialis flowers poorly if it has no rest, but is that dry rest or cool rest, or both? And/or even related to day length?

Well, if it's any indicator my Lebedouria Revoluta (Tanzania (supposedly)) seems to be doing great! I guess I don't know for sure if it's a true summer rainfall species...and I planted it near one of my SA Drankensberg cycads so it gets nearby water for a good part of the year. And it definitely is flowering well.

[Steve Marak]

I can't help with the original question about L. agavoides, but FWIW all my Ledebouria and related genera are in a greenhouse and get water year-round, and don't seem to care. They put out new growth and flower in the spring and go dormant in the fall. Some lose all their leaves, some just stop growing and get increasingly ratty looking all winter. I do try to water them less when they're not actively growing, but they get some water at least every couple of days. They're in a well-drained mix, and I've never had any problems with rot.

Steve

[CG100]

One way to find out..............................

[Too Many Plants!]

One way to find out..............................

LOL... that's the approach we've taken more than a few times. 

In the beginning, we lost more SA bulbs than I care to think about, and who knows for sure the causes for those losses? Some did become gopher food. Since our beginning "learning curve", I've tried to do more homework to take aim at bulbs appropriate for our Hot summer mostly sunny weather and Mediterranean winter rain, as well as try to plant them in better spots based on their specific needs. I do believe we've gotten much better since those first couple bulb years.

[CG100]

Things are in some ways simpler here in the UK - basically everywhere will get some frost at some stage during the winter, down to -3C is common. Rainfall varies a good deal across the UK - from around 60cm in the driest to 180cm in the wetest, but pretty evenly spread through the year.


I don't recall seeing L. confusa offered for sale either in the UK or RSA. I can't imagine it being attractive for any nursery to raise as it would require seed or chopping up bulbs of a reasonable size, assuming chipping, scoring, or whatever, would work.

[Robin Jangle]

Hi @Uli 

I have found that generally Cyrtanthus grow well when grown im morning only sun. Because they have such papyraceous tunics I find that overheating of the bulbs is a major contributor to poor performance - the bulbs either cook or they lose all their roots.

Cyrtanthus falcatus is no exception. It is a cliff grower and it's roots are in cool crevices that are well drained. Unlike C. montanus and sanguineus that grow in horizontal cracks and fissures, falcatus grows in more vertical cracks and fissures.

My falcatus were all in 35cm diameter pots in a loose, rich well-draining medium topped with a layer of fine sharp grit to keep the medium from separating during watering. The bulbs sit on top with their roots and basal plates protected.

They were grown under 50% shade cloth permanently - no rain cover. They performed very well however I found that flowering was increased exponentially if they were kept dry during winter. I covered the pots with large plastic bags and on dry warm days would open them to air, closing up if rain was imminent.

Why don't you post some pics and create a separate post where we can discuss Cyrtanthus .
Cheers