PBS Forum

Dipcadi serotinum is supposed to flower in the summer, at least that is what the entry says on PBS says, but mine has finally started opening. The stalk is 60 cm long. 

Hi, it's strange as I was about to post some pics of my Dipcadi fulvum from Morocco, and I think that this is what you have. You can call it Dipcadi serotinum var fulvum if you prefer, of course.I still have a few wild seeds from near Casablanca, if you want to try and compare in three years.




I can also send seeds of D. serotinum, even adult bulbs, as I thought that I had rediscovered D. fulvum in Spain, but I was mistsken and now I have about ten plants that I don't really need anymore.

Quote from: Carlos on December 06, 2024, 04:04:58 AMHi, it's strange as I was about to post some pics of my Dipcadi fulvum from Morocco, and I think that this is what you have. You can call it Dipcadi serotinum var fulvum if you prefer, of course.I still have a few wild seeds from near Casablanca, if you want to try and compare in three years.

I can also send seeds of D. serotinum, even adult bulbs, as I thought that I had rediscovered D. fulvum in Spain, but I was mistsken and now I have about ten plants that I don't really need anymore.

Am I confused...the PBS Wiki  Pacific Bulb Society | Dipcadi D. Serotinum looks like the pics you posted, and the var. fulvum looks smaller and yellow.

I have grown up seeing D. serotinum, and it's small and blooms in spring. I can send you loads of it.

D. fulvum is North African, about two to three times as big and DOES NOT occur at all in the Pyrenees. Oron Peri just saw a plant with yellowish flowers.

Carlos

Othonna cakilifolia

Fully open in bright sun.

Quote from: Carlos on December 06, 2024, 01:48:14 PMI have grown up seeing D. serotinum, and it's small and blooms in spring. I can send you loads of it.

D. fulvum is North African, about two to three times as big and DOES NOT occur at all in the Pyrenees. Oron Peri just saw a plant with yellowish flowers.

Carlos

Should the PBS Wiki be corrected?

I don't know about others, but I rely on it often, and consider it an accurate source compared to lots of what's out there on the Web when you "google"...

Quote from: Carlos on December 06, 2024, 01:48:14 PMD. fulvum is North African, about two to three times as big and DOES NOT occur at all in the Pyrenees. Oron Peri just saw a plant with yellowish flowers.

The wiki says:

The two photos were taken in its habitat in the Spanish Pyrenees by Oron Peri.

Maybe I could say:

The two photos were taken by Oron Peri.


I have contacted Oron, we'll see what his reaction is...

Oron replied:

"Not sure  what his reference is...
According to Kew which is the authority, it is in Spain and the Canary Islands as well.
The photo i took in habitat was in a population of hundreds of specimens all yellow, it wasnt only one plant.
See kew:
https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77258461-1
"

This link:

https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77189053-1

shows Dipcadi serotinum var. fulvum (Cav.) Ball growing in all of Spain.

Hi. Many of you surely know a bit about the tale of Don Quixote and how he attacked a windmill with his spear thinking that it was a giant. I feel a bit like him, and POWO is the giant.

I have had maps in POWO changed at least twice and have pointed out mistakes to Raphaël Govaerts several times. He acknowledged either that I was right or that he was not sure on which bibliography the map was based.

When a country is shaded (green) on the maps it means that the species is 'present', not that it grows 'in the whole of the country'. You can check with Govaërts  These maps are misleading.

Fulvum does not mean yellow. It means a dull-red colour, rusty colour, etc., like in Iris fulva, which is not yellow.

Again, Oron is wrong this time. In my opinion, saying that the photo was taken by him will not magically transform the yellow flowers from the Pyrenees in brick-red flowers from Moroco.

Again, knowing a bit of Latin is useful (but see the definition of Fulvous).

All the Dipcadi in the Iberian peninsula are serotinum. There is a couple of old records from near the straits of Gibraltar which could refer to true fulvum, but the area has been transformed and the plant has not been relocated. I had three plants with wide leaves sent from that area (Tarifa), but they are serotinum. I checked the ploidy level through flux citometry.

The plant was described by the Valencian botanist Cavanilles as Hyacinthus fulvus Cav. in Anales Ci. Nat. 3: 47 (1801).

He said the the flowers had a 'dark tile-red colour' and that the plant had been found by Broussonet near Mogador (currently Essaouira). He said that he had found serotinum 40 km south of Valencia, in Aranjuez (Madrid) and other places, and that Broussonet saw it in Tenerife (Canary islands), but not the opposite. Fulvum occurs also in the Canaries, whose flora has many African elements.

This paper is also interesting:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260330162_Sur_la_presence_de_Dipcadi_serotinum_subsp_fulvum_Cav_Webb_Berth_en_Algerie

That's what I can say on the subject. I keep my offer of sending seeds or bulbs of both to those who want to see with their eyes.

Maybe you can change it to "Oron Peri says so and so, and Carlos Jiménez disagrees".

Quote from: Carlos on December 08, 2024, 07:14:33 AMI keep my offer of sending seeds or bulbs of both to those who want to see with their eyes.

I am interested in the seeds/bulbs and would like to see them in the next BX.

Hi, I already sent seeds to the SX, but I haven't enough left to make five portions, I prefer that you send me your address. Having a contact in the Azores is cool! I wonder if you know Juniperus brevifolia...

Carlos 

Quote from: Carlos on December 09, 2024, 12:38:15 AMHi, I already sent seeds to the SX, but I haven't enough left to make five portions, I prefer that you send me your address. Having a contact in the Azores is cool! I wonder if you know Juniperus brevifolia...

Carlos

The Juniperus breviflora is one of those rare endemic plants that the Azores have. In my backyard, I have what looks like Juniperus breviflora var. montanum. It popped up there, and is considered a protected species. From what I have observed, it hates to be moved, even a seedling risks the tap root being damaged, so I didn't try to put it in a more convenient position.

I am going to have to ask Uli for your email so I can send you my address.

Winter Bulb season is officially rolling in So Cal! 🎉

Veltheimia Capensis just starting to strut its stuff!

This clump is totally reliable for me. I will say the foliage and flowers can look different from year to year. I've been considering moving these to a more winter full sun spot in our garden, and maybe moving my V. Bracteata where these are now. My Bracteata are in nearly full sun and get torched as we get to April.

Another exciting Veltheimia note...my V. Capensis - Deasii that were nowhere to be seen last year, have almost all popped out of the soil now. They are in more full sun than this mature Capensis clump, so I would have thought they'd be ahead of my Capensis.

Hi, @Wylie, I expected that you knew the shrub, but not that you had one, and a spontaneous one!!

I see that you live near the sea on Terceira island...  This is just amazing!!

I happen to also know a bit on Mediterranean junipers (sorry all) and your plant does not seem to belong in subsp. brevifolia var. montana (montanum is incorrect in the original paper, as all trees were feminine in Latin even if the names ended in -us, hence Juniperus brevifoliA and not brevifoliUM, which is neuter, and infraspecific taxa have the same gender as the genus) but subsp. maritima, only maybe in subsp. brevifolia var. brevifolia.

<<Based on morphological, genetic and ecological data, we describe new infraspecific taxa of the Azorean endemic Juniperus brevifolia. J. brevifolia subsp. maritima is an erect shrub or small tree, found in Flores, Terceira, Pico and São Jorge, in
coastal scrubs below 100 m. J. brevifolia subsp. brevifolia occurs in all islands of the archipelago except Graciosa, between 300 and 1500 m. J. brevifolia subsp. brevifolia var. brevifolia is a small to medium tree found between 300 and 1000 m. J.
brevifolia subsp. brevifolia var. montanum is a small prostrate shrub, common in mountain scrubs and blanket bogs, between 850 and 1500 m. The most striking morphological differences of subsp. maritima are the larger leaves, seed cones and seeds.
Phenological patterns of the subspecies also differ, notably in the periods of seed maturation and pollination. The distribution of taxa within islands is peripatric. Coastal populations (subsp. maritima) are small and isolated from the usually much larger subsp. brevifolia populations, above 300 m. In subsp. brevifolia the varieties are parapatric, since their ranges are adjacent to each other, occurring together in narrow contact zones.>>

Juniperus brevifolia - infraspecific taxa