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This plant from a BX 2 years ago has some ripening seed pods.  Something has been chewing open the green seed pods, surprising as the plant is poisonous.  As the seeds are bright red, I thought they were ready for harvest, so I brought the pods inside.  Now I am thinking I should have left the pods to turn brown and split on their own, which I would have, except for the chewing.

Does anyone know if the seeds are recalcitrant, or have any experience growing from seed? I am not sure when and how to plant.

Hello Ron,

As a summer growing species I would sow the seed in spring and not now. They should survive until spring if kept cool and dry.

Hope that helps 

You probably have less than a good chance that the seed is or can be ripened enough to be viable. Time will tell.

I also suspect that you mean ephemeral, rather than recalcitrant - pretty much the opposites of one another. So far as I am aware, they are neither.

If the seed cases/pods are still at all fleshy they will have to be dried carefully, with plenty of air movement around them so that they dry, not rot. If you have picked them with enough stalk attached, hang them up somewhere cool and airy, otherwise, in an open, crumpled paper bag is good as the paper will allow circulation under the pods. Once dry, you will get a better idea about likely viability.

If they look worth sowing, I would sow them as early in 2025 as you can, in a frost-free, warmed greenhouse or on a windowsill indoors. The longer that they get to grow, the larger will be the tubers.

Toxins are frequently rather specific, plus many rodents will try small amounts of any new food just to see how they feel, before going back for more (one reason why rats are so difficult to poison). Could the culprit have been a slug?

I looked them up, because I didn't really know

Ephemeral plants survive by passing unfavorable periods as seeds. Their seeds are well-adapted to their habitat and can remain dormant for a long time.


Recalcitrant seeds are seeds that are unable to survive drying and freezing, and therefore cannot be stored for long periods of time. They are also known as desiccation-sensitive seeds.

Ephemeral means short-lived or fleeting. Short-lived plants probably most frequently have extremely robust and long-lived seeds - think of the ephmeral plants that spring up in desert regions once every few (or many) years when they get rain.
Ephemeral plants are indeed, short-lived.

Several societies have specialist ephemeral seed distributions, where the viability of the seed is extremely short - lots of the Amarillids for instance, where many species produce seeds that germinate before, as or immediately after they fall from the parent plant.

I have always assumed that recalcitrant seeds were the opposite, given the common English meaning of the word (awkward, resistant, disobedient), but it does mean seeds that cannot take desication and have no dormancy.

I can find no term for seeds which are difficult to break dormancy/germinate, although there are 7 types.

Something that I had not realised - Gloriosa is a member of the Colchicaceae. Many from this family have seeds that are very difficult/slow to germinate once they dry completely. On the other hand, the very few from the family that I have sown as very fresh, but dry, seeds, have germinated freely.

Thanks to all for your advice!  The pods are stored in an airy location, and it is comparatively dry here (Los Angeles), so they should dry ok.  It could have been slugs, but they would had to climb 3 feet (1 meter) to get to the pods.

I will report back if I learn anything useful.

Quote from: CG100 on October 06, 2024, 01:50:42 AMSeveral societies have specialist ephemeral seed distributions, where the viability of the seed is extremely short

Do you mean "specialist recalcitrant seed distributions"

Quote from: David Pilling on October 06, 2024, 05:43:22 PM

Quote from: CG100 on October 06, 2024, 01:50:42 AMSeveral societies have specialist ephemeral seed distributions, where the viability of the seed is extremely short

Do you mean "specialist recalcitrant seed distributions"

Accurate or not, I am pretty sure the ones that I have seen have used the word ephemeral.

That said, ephemeral could be argued as being more accurate in many cases.
Many seeds have short viabilities, but have hard seed coats and will germinate from dry if sown within a few weeks or months of them falling from the parent plant - obvious examples being Ledebouria and related genera, and they certainly have a (short) dormancy period, unlike many Amaryllid seeds which frequently have no dormancy and fit the definition of recalitrant precisely.

I can't recall anything but Amaryllid seeds that are trully recalcitrant (no doubt there will be many more that are uncommon or unknown in amateur horticulture). Depending on where an arbitrary line is drawn, there are a lot of ephemeral seeds, even species such as Aesculus

Quote from: CG100 on October 07, 2024, 12:03:30 AMI am pretty sure the ones that I have seen have used the word ephemeral.

This very PBS for example, in this list post:

https://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2023-August/20hssdsm33p4jqsa01lncm5b66.html


"Ephemeral seed distribution organizer
Jan Jeddeloh via pbs (Tue, 15 Aug 2023 13:05:12 PDT)

I know there was someone on this list you had volunteered to deal with ephemeral, short viability seed. "

Ephemeral seed or ephemeral plants.

^^^^

👍👍

I shall be very aware and careful in the use of the two terms in future.

If only there was, (or I could find), a name for seeds that are a pain to get to germinate, but which may germinate after long periods - years, such as so many Iridaceae (I like Iris pseudacorus and grew it in my parents' very small garden - the seeds were still germinating something like 10 years later, long after the parents were removed.)

Re. the recalcitrant (properly used) seed of some irises, some success has been reported by soaking the seeds in frequently renewed water. One technique devised was to put the seeds in a bag made from nylon hose and suspend it in the toilet tank (cistern) for a couple of weeks, where the water changes with every flush. The aim is to rinse away germination inhibitors.

Quote from: janemcgary on October 07, 2024, 06:52:26 PMRe. the recalcitrant (properly used) seed of some irises,

Unfortunately biology/horticulture has taken the word to mean the opposite to what me and you see as logical.

I can find no word/term that covers the phenomenon whereby seeds are difficult to routinely germinate.