PBS Forum

Quote from: Uli on November 16, 2024, 12:28:03 AMMeasuring the pH of the water certainly is a good idea, but can you also measure the pH of the substrate?

Quote from: Uli on November 16, 2024, 12:28:03 AMWhat if you would repot one of these plants into fresh substrate and stop fertilizing it?

Hi Uli,

I don't have a meter that will measure soil pH. But, I have so many plants in my typical soil mix that are doing well that I don't think soil pH is a problem at this time.

I think it is a good idea about repotting one plant and using a lesser frequency of fertilizing it to see if there is a difference between the two plants as time goes on.  I have several variables to work with now that I hope will correct the problem.

And that brings me to one more variable that I'd like to ask you, Carl, David, Arnold, or anyone else reading this post who would like to answer.

I remember reading that someone recommended using a dilute solution of hydrogen peroxide in the water for your plants from time to time. The benefit that was claimed was that the hydrogen peroxide "cleansed" the roots and this allowed better nutrient uptake that was good for plant growth.  Have you heard anything similar; have you ever done this with any of your plants; and if yes, what concentration of H2O2 did you use?

Thanks!

I've been thinking more about the uptake of trace nutrients like magnesium in potted plants and I remember reading that absorption through the roots is facilitated by neutral to lower pH levels in the water.  I have gotten out of the habit of checking my water for pH, but i used to do it regularly because my tap water is alkaline.  I then treated the water with a capful of white vinegar per gallon to bring the pH to slightly below 7.0. 

I just tested my tap water and the pH is about 8.5.  So, I will adjust the pH to a bit below 7.0 and I hope that this will help the plants absorb the fertilizer and trace nutrients better, and maybe help to resolve the yellow leaves problem in my Griffinias. 

I also purchased a packet of Epson Salts this afternoon.  An unscented 3 pound bag was about $4.00. At one tablespoon per gallon of pH adjusted water, it will last a long time.

So, I've got a few new techniques in my arsenal to try to help my plants. I'm hoping the pH adjustment will be the biggest help.  And if so, it will benefit my other plants as well.

Are any of you using any chemicals to adjust the pH of your plant water?

I searched the web for magnesium deficiency in plants and many of the photos of houseplants on the web had images that are similar to my situation. The Royal Horticultural Society had some good advice to provide my plants with a quick and easy treatment for magnesium deficiency using Epsom salts. 

https://www.rhs.org.uk/prevention-protection/nutrient-deficiencies

"Over-use of high-potassium fertilisers (such as tomato feed) can cause magnesium deficiency, as plants take up potassium in preference to magnesium." (One of the fertilizers I use is Miracle-Gro Tomato Plant Food 20-20-20 with micro nutrients.)

"Remedy: In the short term, apply Epsom salts as a foliar feed in summer. Dilute the salts at a rate of 20g of Epsom salts per litre of water (1/3oz per pint) plus a few drops of liquid detergent. Apply two or three times at fortnightly intervals, spraying in dull weather to avoid leaf scorch. In the long term apply to the soil around the roots either Dolomite limestone (calcium-magnesium carbonate) at 100g per sq m (4oz per sq yd) or Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) at 30g per sq m (1oz per sq yd). Dolomite limestone will make the soil more alkaline, so should not be used around ericaceous (acid-loving) plants such as rhododendrons or camellias, or where the soil is already alkaline."

I'll purchase some Epson salts and mix a dilute solution for the next few waterings to see if it helps.  I may also try it as a foliar spray.  Wish me luck.

Quote from: David Pilling on November 14, 2024, 03:45:44 PMWhat would make a nursery able to avoid a source that you could not.

Quote from: CG100 on November 14, 2024, 11:44:26 PMThat said, plants with supposed virus infections are very far from common in enthusiasts' collections.

Quote from: Uli on November 15, 2024, 12:04:57 AMHave you considered magnesium deficiency?

Quote from: Uli on November 15, 2024, 12:04:57 AMYou state that you use a fairly concentrated fertilizer but does it contain trace elements? Have you changed the substrate? Have you changed light exposure?

The plants were outside on a porch during the Spring, Summer, and Autumn and are inside under lights now. I first noticed the condition during the summer. If it was a virus, it could have been spread to the plants by insects while outside, but I check my plants regularly for pests and I never noticed any on these Griffinia.  I don't have this condition on any of my other species Griffinia, nor any other of my other plants.

I checked the labels of the fertilizers I use and they all contain magnesium, as well as copper, iron, manganese, zinc, and one contains even boron and molybdenum. But, it would probably be a good idea to flush the potting mix with plain water to clear it of any residual accumulation of salts, etc.  I have changed the substrate recently and the light exposure has been changed by bringing the plants inside for the winter.  I will research the magnesium possibility in greater detail.

I'm also a member of the Gesneriad Society and I have read recently about extensive personal collections of Gesneriads being infected with Impatiens Necrotic Spot Virus (INSV), requiring the destruction of all of the plants and starting over from the beginning.  Many Gesneriad growers raise their plants indoors under lights and they are going to great lengths to prevent thrips on their plants, because thrips spread the INSV. As well as using systemic insecticides, some are even purchasing predatory mites which they release on their indoor collections in their houses and garages. Better to have beneficial mites in your dwelling than thrips!

I will research trace nutrients more, be more conscientious about fertilizing, watering, and lighting. I am going to let the soil dry out a bit in the hope that the leaves will dry and I'll remove them and give the bulbs a rest period.  My best guess is that these plants don't have a virus, but rather have other special needs that I have not discovered yet. In the meantime, I've removed them from the rest of the plants and they are now in a semi-quarantined state while I see if I can resolve this issue.

Many thanks to Carl, David, and Uli for your comments and suggestions. I appreciate it.

I looked into having them tested for virus and it is just not worth the cost.  I can purchase 6 or 7 new plants, including the cost to ship them for price of viral testing. And, if the lab doesn't happen to test for the particular virus your plant has, you are back to where you started.

I hate to give up on cherished plants. The leaves and flowers on these plants are very nice. I'll give them some more time, but if they don't improve by Spring, I'll probably toss them and purchase new plants to be on the safe side.

The PBS wiki has a section on plant viruses.

https://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/virus

There's even a sentence with the Genus Griffinia mentioned. 

"Virus in Phaedranassa, Eucrosia, Eucharis, Stenomesson, Griffinia and Eustephia shows as longitudinal ridges (those leaves are perfectly flat if healthy), besides the mosaic stripes."

A photo of a Phaedranassa with virus is included in this section.

Alas, the wiki also states: "Virused plants may show symptoms such as streaked or mosaic patterns on flowers and foliage. Leaves and stems can be twisted, distorted, and necrosed. Some apparently healthy plants do not show viral symptoms and only under stress that a latent virus may begin to show. In other cases, there are plants that do not show signs of disease at all."

My plants do not appear to have longitudinal ridges beside the discolored stripes.  But, I'm still nervous about them because I know what they used to look like before presenting like the ones in the photo above.

So, perhaps there's another way to approach this topic.  If you (anyone reading this topic) had plants like mine in the photo above, how long would you keep them? [Because the sap-suckers are all too common.]

Thanks!

These two Griffina plants have started to grow leaves that are streaked with yellow.  They are usually a very deep green color.  What do you think is wrong with them?  I use a 20-20-20 fertilizer at about ¼ to ½ strength for most waterings, then plain watering as a rinse on occasion.  They grow well and send up spikes regularly even with discolored leaves.  I cannot detect any insect pest infestation on them.  I recently repotted them and the roots and bulbs appear healthy.  Do they have a virus?  None of my other plants, including my other Griffinias, have ever exhibited this discoloration and I use the same fertilizer regimen for them. 

I hate to make a mistake and throw away favorite plants that might be treatable. But, if they have a virus, they have to go.

Thanks for your help.




 

Here is a photo of my plants on September 10, 2024. They have exceeded my expectations and have thrived in the hot and humid summer weather in Tidewater Virginia, as well as growing splendidly in pots.  The plant on the left is in a black nursery pot that is about 7 inches (18 cm) tall.  The plant on the right is in a clay pot that is about 5 inches (13cm) tall. I suspect that these plants would remain evergreen under the right conditions and not subjected to freezing temps. I intend to bring them inside this winter and keep them under lights to see how they will fare. My only regret is that they did not flower for me yet this season. Perhaps these plants might even be able to be grown in pots in south Florida if protected from excessive rainfall.

(If you see a thumbnail photo of the plants on your screen, you can click your mouse cursor on the photo and it will expand for you.)

'Firefly' Petunias are plants that have bioluminescent genes inserted into them.  These plants glow in the dark, especially the flowers and  flower buds.  They will probably be mass marketed within a few years, but they can be purchased again in 2025 in the USA while supplies last.  I believe the price in 2024 was about $29.  Here are the links about this plant.

https://www.light.bio/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/this-genetically-engineered-petunia-glows-in-the-dark-and-could-be-yours-for-29/

Thanks to Lee Poulsen for informing me about this plant!

(I've reposted this topic here from "Plants in the News" to give it more visibility to Forum readers.)

Glow in the Dark Petunia Plants - Will Worsleya Be Next?

'Firefly' Petunias are plants that have bioluminescent genes inserted into them.  These plants glow in the dark, especially the flowers and  flower buds.  They will probably be mass marketed within a few years, but they can be purchased again in 2025 in the USA while supplies last.  I believe the price in 2024 was about $29.  Here are the links about this plant.

https://www.light.bio/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/this-genetically-engineered-petunia-glows-in-the-dark-and-could-be-yours-for-29/

Thanks to Lee Poulsen for informing me about this plant!

Quote from: Carlos on January 10, 2024, 11:05:14 PMBut if you have hot summers, expect the seedlings to die soon, unless it cools down in the night to 15 degrees or less. At least, that's what happens in the Pyrenees, where I have seen it wild.

Quote from: Uli on January 11, 2024, 01:16:36 AMOne thing I can say is that Carlina is an extremely tough plant forming a big and very deep tap root. So for sure it will not be happy in a pot and therefore I recommend planting seedlings into their permanent position as soon as possible.

Here's an update on my Carlina acaulis plants. I transplanted my seedlings into larger pots around June 1st. They did not like this. One of them perished and the other two pouted for several weeks. I live in USDA Zone 8a in a humid, subtropical climate. During July, there have been many very hot days, some as high as 99F (37C). Most nights have seen a low temp around 74F (23C) or above. There was an unusual amount of rain in July with more than 12 inches (30.5cm). It's been brutally hot and humid, to put it mildly.

In spite of this, C. acaulis is alive and growing in pots. I keep them on a covered patio where they get a few hours of morning sunlight and then bright, indirect light the rest of the day. I protect them from the rain and I hand water them. I was surprised how much water they like.  Next season, I will plant seeds in 3 gallon nursery pots so they don't have to be transplanted.  I will give them more sun, but I will still protect them from excessive rain. There's a good possibility that they would be able to grow in a raised bed with well draining soil. And all of this work is because this plant has an interesting and pretty flower.  I encourage anyone who is interested in growing this plant, but was hesitant to do so because they thought it was an "obligate" alpine plant, to reconsider growing it in pots.  Ill post photos if I get flowers. (Yes, they look a bit ragged, but they are a work in progress!)

 

Success!!! Here is a photo of my Carlina acaulis seedlings. The cold stratification apparently was the key to success. I planted about 10 seeds and 6 germinated. After a particularly cold and rainy night, 3 perished and 3 survived. When these guys get a bit bigger, I will repot them into larger and deeper containers. I'll then get to see if they will grow in the heat and humidity here in the summer.  I will protect them from torrential summer rain by moving them under the patio. The good thing is that I learned how to get them to germinate and it only took 2 seasons. 

Quote from: David Pilling on March 20, 2024, 04:52:13 AMTip, the link above takes you to a folder. If you just download it, Google will mess about zipping it and you'll end up with 1.2GB of duplicated material. Instead double click the folder and seek out the 200MB combined chapters PDF file:

Thanks David.  Good to know.  I went about it with the zipped file. It took a bit of effort.  But, I was successful.  But anyone else can do it a bit easier with the method you describe.

I also edited my comments about this eBook.  Derrick made his eBook available to anyone who is interested in it; it is not solely for Myrmecophyte Forum members.  It is an impressive work and worthy of appreciation and gratitude.

Epiphytic Myrmecophytes: Bizarre Wonder of Nature 2022, by Derrick John Rowe

The late Derrick John Rowe from New Zealand published an extensive eBook on epiphytic myrmecophytes and other non-epiphytic plant genera with close ant associated ecology. This book is a treasure of scientific and natural history of the known ant plants.  It contains extensive color photographs and is documented to the hilt with technical references.  It was written in Microsoft Word and totals almost 1100 pages on my computer.

Derrick made this eBook available for free on the Forum for Epiphytic Myrmecophytes.  Derrick's eBook is available to anyone who is interested in it, not just Forum members.  Since I do not enjoy reading books on my computer, I purchased an inexpensive 10 inch Hyundai HyTab Tablet on eBay, installed a free Word App for Android from Microsoft, and downloaded the eBook to the tablet. I can now enjoy reading this eBook in the evenings without having to sit at my computer.

The latest working link from the Myrmecophyte Forum for this book is below.  It is on Google Drive.  I checked it out today and I was able to download the zipped file without problems.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1BISi7muZ8PUV705xImAH_0Pi-yT3va0i?fbclid=IwAR2IOsjxZPeGANb84qeWW3HgIA3rS2N9GpDUEPOIUur3RYEc9R13yAM4wm0

This is an outstanding, free publication available for anyone who is interested in this subject.  Derrick's work is the culmination of a lifetime of study about these plants.  Enjoy!

Quote from: David Pilling on March 15, 2024, 04:57:41 AMI'd be worried that ants might take up living in then - maybe has to be a specific type of ant.

I repotted one of my larger Myrmecodia beccarii yesterday and I noticed a few ants on the caudex later in the evening. Occasionally, I will see ants on my plant shelves, but I could never find where they were nesting, and the ant plants didn't seem to be the source.  Anyway, when I have ants on my plant shelves I use a few drops of Terro ant bait on a small piece of plastic or aluminum foil. Amazingly, the ants pour out of wherever they are hiding to feed on the solution, which contains sugar and borax; the borax is fatal to them. Within about 2 days, the ants are gone until they mysteriously reappear months later, and then the Terro get reapplied.  I now have some Terro drops on plastic sitting on top of the potting mix of my larger ant plants to see what happens.

But, not to worry, any decent systemic insecticide drench with imidacloprid should easily take care of an ant infestation in your myrmecophytes.