From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 04 May 2016 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <572A7F2A.5030903@badbear.com> From: dkramb Subject: Hippeastrum parodii Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 19:00:58 -0400 I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but my sole surviving bulb of H. parodii seemed to stay dormant forever. It has been growing on my living room windowsill for 2-3 years now. The last time it was in active growth was like 8 or 9 months ago. Giving it water didn't seem to wake it up. I wondered if the constant temperature of my house was a problem. So about 10 days ago I set it on my enclosed back patio so it could experience some temperature swings from about 45 deg F to 75 deg F. And today I noticed there is a new green leaf about half an inch high. I'm growing 2 children whose ancestry are half H. parodii. They're also on the livingroom windowsill, and they emerged from dormancy on their own about a month ago. So maybe if I had just waited a little longer H. parodii would have done the same. I'm just happy it's alive! <3 Dennis in Cincinnati From npublici@yahoo.com Wed, 04 May 2016 17:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <26638350.8032107.1462403717218.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Del Allegood Subject: Hippeastrum parodii Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 23:15:17 +0000 (UTC) Dennis, I lost both Parodii and Evansiae to mild cold and too much water(Rain) when dormant.They are very sensitive to overwatering. On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 7:01 PM, dkramb wrote: I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but my sole surviving bulb of H. parodii seemed to stay dormant forever.  It has been growing on my living room windowsill for 2-3 years now.  The last time it was in active growth was like 8 or 9 months ago. Giving it water didn't seem to wake it up.  I wondered if the constant temperature of my house was a problem.  So about 10 days ago I set it on my enclosed back patio so it could experience some temperature swings from about 45 deg F to 75 deg F.  And today I noticed there is a new green leaf about half an inch high. I'm growing 2 children whose ancestry are half H. parodii.  They're also on the livingroom windowsill, and they emerged from dormancy on their own about a month ago.  So maybe if I had just waited a little longer H. parodii would have done the same. I'm just happy it's alive! <3 Dennis in Cincinnati _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ksayce@willapabay.org Thu, 05 May 2016 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Allium triquetrum Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 08:05:42 -0700 Several weeks ago at a party, a friend asked me to identify a flowering bulb from his description, and I begged off until I could see flowers, or he could send me photos. The photos came today, and this is Allium triquetrum, growing on a river walk in Astoria, Oregon. He transplanted it to his yard, where in damp shade it is dueling for space with creeping buttercup (another introduced invasive species), and is now in bloom. Pre-photos, I had asked him to take measurements, thinking I would need to refer to keys to identify it. But no, thanks to the PBS photos, I was able to scroll right to it in the Allium section. This is a thank you to everyone who has sent in photos and posted information on PBS’s site. I’ve sent him to it to read about his lovely little allium. Cheers, Kathleen From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Thu, 05 May 2016 09:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <2093150862.1787715.1462461473399.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Allium triquetrum Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 15:17:53 +0000 (UTC) Hope you warned him/her. The few I still have I behead and put in the recycling bin to be taken away. Very invasive. Brian, UK From: Kathleen Sayce To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2016, 16:05 Subject: [pbs] Allium triquetrum Several weeks ago at a party, a friend asked me to identify a flowering bulb from his description, and I begged off until I could see flowers, or he could send me photos. The photos came today, and this is Allium triquetrum, growing on a river walk in Astoria, Oregon. He transplanted it to his yard, where in damp shade it is dueling for space with creeping buttercup (another introduced invasive species), and is now in bloom. Pre-photos, I had asked him to take measurements, thinking I would need to refer to keys to identify it. But no, thanks to the PBS photos, I was able to scroll right to it in the Allium section. This is a thank you to everyone who has sent in photos and posted information on PBS’s site. I’ve sent him to it to read about his lovely little allium. Cheers, Kathleen _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 05 May 2016 09:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <572B692C.8030702@earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Allium triquetrum Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 08:39:24 -0700 Kathleen, please tell your friend to get rid of Allium triquetrum before it spreads farther. I once read that it has become a serious pest in the eastern USA, and we don't need it in Oregon. It probably can't be eliminated from the public space in Astoria, though. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon On 5/5/2016 8:05 AM, Kathleen Sayce wrote: > Several weeks ago at a party, a friend asked me to identify a flowering bulb from his description, and I begged off until I could see flowers, or he could send me photos. > > The photos came today, and this is Allium triquetrum, growing on a river walk in Astoria, Oregon. He transplanted it to his yard, where in damp shade it is dueling for space with creeping buttercup (another introduced invasive species), and is now in bloom. Pre-photos, I had asked him to take measurements, thinking I would need to refer to keys to identify it. But no, thanks to the PBS photos, I was able to scroll right to it in the Allium section. > > This is a thank you to everyone who has sent in photos and posted information on PBS’s site. I’ve sent him to it to read about his lovely little allium. > > Cheers, > Kathleen > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From cynthiasbulbs@hotmail.com Thu, 05 May 2016 09:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Cynthia Mueller Subject: Allium triquetrum Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 15:57:10 +0000 Speak about beheading! Here in my garden I struggle with Nothoscordum bivalve, false garlic/crow poison. Its leaves do not smell of onions and the white flowers have a honeyed fragrance. They have to be beheaded every time a person passes by (me), or seeds will fall into pots of rain lilies or Cooperia especially, where the plants are able to mimic their hosts. After digging the plants, the tiny "rice bulbs" are revealed, and if even one falls away into the soil again, it all starts all over again. Cynthia W Mueller > On May 5, 2016, at 10:23 AM, Brian Whyer wrote: > > Hope you warned him/her. The few I still have I behead and put in the recycling bin to be taken away. Very invasive. > Brian, UK > > From: Kathleen Sayce > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2016, 16:05 > Subject: [pbs] Allium triquetrum > > Several weeks ago at a party, a friend asked me to identify a flowering bulb from his description, and I begged off until I could see flowers, or he could send me photos. > > The photos came today, and this is Allium triquetrum, growing on a river walk in Astoria, Oregon. He transplanted it to his yard, where in damp shade it is dueling for space with creeping buttercup (another introduced invasive species), and is now in bloom. Pre-photos, I had asked him to take measurements, thinking I would need to refer to keys to identify it. But no, thanks to the PBS photos, I was able to scroll right to it in the Allium section. > > This is a thank you to everyone who has sent in photos and posted information on PBS’s site. I’ve sent him to it to read about his lovely little allium. > > Cheers, > Kathleen > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Tue, 10 May 2016 06:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <048d4850-81a3-e1dc-1d5c-352cc9876a2f@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: State of the World's Plants Report Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 13:45:24 +0100 Hi, This came out today... "The State of the World’s Plants report, by experts at the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew" [1] They've found there are around 391,000 species - some of us have only a handful left to tick off. Seemingly part of the research was done by looking at photos on the web - botany can now be done behind a desk. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/10/one-in-five-of-worlds-plant-species-at-risk-of-extinction -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@frontier.com Wed, 11 May 2016 07:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <406766.67872.bm@smtp212.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 398 Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 09:50:44 -0400 Dear All,       The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at mailto: ds429@frontier.com   Include "BX 398" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $2 - $5/share of bulbs or seeds)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added.     Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website:         If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 55 W. High St. Salem, WV 26426 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. ALL ORDERS TO THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS ONLY. Dell's email address ds429@frontier.com Do not hit the reply tab or you will reply to all PBS members by mistake.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Rimmer de Vries: 1. yellow Clivia  sp.: 1 yr old seedings (VERY FEW) 2. yellow Clivia sp.:   3 yr old seedlings  (FEW)             These are all Type 1 yellow clivia- that means they always make yellow seedlings no matter what pollen parent you use. The pale yellow flower flower is rather large and loose.  3. 1/2” bulb offsets Ornithogalum caudatum  (Albuca bracteata) (FEW) 4. Seeds of Clivia hyb Salmon D4- Apricot D6 color, salmon colored fruits, ex Maris Andersons. (VERY FEW) From Monica Swartz: (small bulbs) 5. Cyrtanthus sanguineus ex BX 280 6. Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus ex BX 202 7. Hippeastrum blossfeldiae ex BX 220 From Uli Urban: 8. Tubers of Spathantheum orbignyanum; a deciduous Aroid from Bolivia. It is incredibly prolific. This plant produces large leaves in summer similar to those of Acanthus. The flowers appear before the leaves and look like a long-stemmed thin leaf, only if you look at the underside one will see it is in fact a flower. The smell is strange, not on the pleasant side.... It likes full sun and lots of water and fertilize when in growth and takes a totally dry rest in winter, easy to grow. 9. Bulbili of “Lachenalia rubida var. bulbifera”. A nice and easy to grow plant, the bulbili are fresh and were harvested today. It is a winter growing plant with early spring flowers. From Ralph Carpenter: 10. Seeds of Hippeastrum vittatum 11. Seeds of Hippeastrum blossfeldiae Thank you, Rimmer, Monica, Uli, and Ralph !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@frontier.com Thu, 12 May 2016 04:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1583322381.1068248.1463051232831.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: ds429 Subject: BX 398 CLOSED Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 11:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Packages should go out in a week or so. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From iranaquatic@yahoo.ca Thu, 12 May 2016 06:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <2074921347.1142350.1463056527289.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Mohammad Sadegh Subject: Lilium ledebourii Seeds arrived in EU Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 12:35:27 +0000 (UTC)  Hi Friends  Some people think it will be hard to send seeds of Lilium Ledebourii to out but not so difficult for me . some weeks ago seeds (more than 400 seeds) arrived in UK .Now i accept more orders if anybody is interested . I Prefer to send all seeds to one clients that can distribute seeds to other clients because priority postal service is expensive and normal post service is very slow .anybody interested ?paypal still don't support Iran so I can't receive cost of seeds , I will order some plants from a Japanese seller .Best Wishes Mohammad SadeghArdabil ,Iran _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From avbeek1@hotmail.com Thu, 12 May 2016 07:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: a van beek Subject: Lilium ledebourii Seeds arrived in EU Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 15:33:44 +0200 Mohammad, You tried repeatedly to sell your Lilium ledebourii seeds via this forum. I don't think that is the proper way. Either contact Dell and sort something out to make them available via BX or do not post it again. Any background information of this species etc is however much appreciated. Aad On 5/12/2016 2:35 PM, Mohammad Sadegh wrote: > Hi Friends > > Some people think it will be hard to send seeds of Lilium Ledebourii to out but not so difficult for me . some weeks ago seeds (more than 400 seeds) arrived in UK .Now i accept more orders if anybody is interested . I Prefer to send all seeds to one clients that can distribute seeds to other clients because priority postal service is expensive and normal post service is very slow .anybody interested ?paypal still don't support Iran so I can't receive cost of seeds , I will order some plants from a Japanese seller .Best Wishes > Mohammad SadeghArdabil ,Iran > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From iranaquatic@yahoo.ca Thu, 12 May 2016 11:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1409260797.1354028.1463074605888.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Mohammad Sadegh Subject: Lilium ledebourii Seeds arrived in EU Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 17:36:45 +0000 (UTC) Hi  Sorry if i have disturbed you You can find my article about this species in Lilies and Related Plants (2011-2012) http://www.rhslilygroup.org/RHS_L&RPs_2011_2012.pdf  Good LuckMohammad SadeghArdabil ,Iran On Thursday, May 12, 2016 6:04 PM, a van beek wrote: Mohammad, You tried repeatedly to sell your Lilium ledebourii seeds via this forum. I don't think that is the proper way. Either contact Dell and sort something out to make them available via BX or do not post it again. Any background information of this species etc is however much appreciated. Aad On 5/12/2016 2:35 PM, Mohammad Sadegh wrote: >  Hi Friends > > Some people think it will be hard to send seeds of Lilium Ledebourii to out but not so difficult for me . some weeks ago seeds (more than 400 seeds) arrived in UK .Now i accept more orders if anybody is interested . I Prefer to send all seeds to one clients that can distribute seeds to other clients because priority postal service is expensive and normal post service is very slow .anybody interested ?paypal still don't support Iran so I can't receive cost of seeds , I will order some plants from a Japanese seller .Best Wishes > Mohammad SadeghArdabil ,Iran > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 13 May 2016 10:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <03f201d1ad35$37a8b410$a6fa1c30$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Any suggestions on storing pollen? Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 09:33:43 -0700 I could use some advice on storing pollen. The bulbs that I hybridize bloom over a period of several months, most of them from February to early May. If I want to make the widest range of crosses, I need to store pollen from the early ones to use on the later ones. The way I've been doing that is to put the anthers in plastic film canisters (the kind that photographic film used to come in). The canisters go in a soft-sided food cooler, which is stored in a deep freeze in the garage. During bloom season I take that cooler out of the freezer for an hour or more every time I pollinate. That system worked well for me in the past, but the more plants I get, the more often I take the cooler out of the freezer. This year it was probably out at least five times a week, and I noticed that the stored pollen started to look bad. It was clumpy instead of powdery, and flowers pollinated with it often didn't set seeds. My rate of success on crosses dropped by about 50% this year. I think what's happening is that the anthers are thawing and then refreezing over and over, and that's doing something to the pollen. Do you think that's likely, and if so, what can I do about it? I can think of a few options: --Don't freeze the anthers during the growing season. Store the film canisters open in a cool day spot and hope the pollen remains viable. How long is it likely to last when stored this way? --Remove the pollen from the anthers and freeze only the pollen. Will the pollen alone tolerate thawing and freezing better than pollen on anthers? --Store the anthers in a refrigerator instead of a freezer. Maybe if they don't actually freeze they won't deteriorate so quickly. Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike From dkramb@badbear.com Fri, 13 May 2016 10:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Any suggestions on storing pollen? Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 12:40:27 -0400 i store mine in 35mm film canisters and set them in empty ice cube trays so that i can easily read the writing on the side. that way im only retrieving the individual canisters as needed. i never thaw pollen i won't use that day. Dennis in Cincinnati On May 13, 2016 12:35 PM, "Michael Mace" wrote: > I could use some advice on storing pollen. > > The bulbs that I hybridize bloom over a period of several months, most of > them from February to early May. If I want to make the widest range of > crosses, I need to store pollen from the early ones to use on the later > ones. The way I've been doing that is to put the anthers in plastic film > canisters (the kind that photographic film used to come in). The canisters > go in a soft-sided food cooler, which is stored in a deep freeze in the > garage. > > During bloom season I take that cooler out of the freezer for an hour or > more every time I pollinate. That system worked well for me in the past, > but > the more plants I get, the more often I take the cooler out of the freezer. > This year it was probably out at least five times a week, and I noticed > that > the stored pollen started to look bad. It was clumpy instead of powdery, > and > flowers pollinated with it often didn't set seeds. My rate of success on > crosses dropped by about 50% this year. > > I think what's happening is that the anthers are thawing and then > refreezing > over and over, and that's doing something to the pollen. Do you think > that's > likely, and if so, what can I do about it? I can think of a few options: > > --Don't freeze the anthers during the growing season. Store the film > canisters open in a cool day spot and hope the pollen remains viable. How > long is it likely to last when stored this way? > > --Remove the pollen from the anthers and freeze only the pollen. Will the > pollen alone tolerate thawing and freezing better than pollen on anthers? > > --Store the anthers in a refrigerator instead of a freezer. Maybe if they > don't actually freeze they won't deteriorate so quickly. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jshields46074@gmail.com Fri, 13 May 2016 10:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: James SHIELDS Subject: Any suggestions on storing pollen? Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 12:44:41 -0400 I put this page together years back on storing pollen: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/info/Pollen.html -- Jim On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Michael Mace wrote: > I could use some advice on storing pollen. > > The bulbs that I hybridize bloom over a period of several months, most of > them from February to early May. If I want to make the widest range of > crosses, I need to store pollen from the early ones to use on the later > ones. The way I've been doing that is to put the anthers in plastic film > canisters (the kind that photographic film used to come in). The canisters > go in a soft-sided food cooler, which is stored in a deep freeze in the > garage. > > During bloom season I take that cooler out of the freezer for an hour or > more every time I pollinate. That system worked well for me in the past, > but > the more plants I get, the more often I take the cooler out of the freezer. > This year it was probably out at least five times a week, and I noticed > that > the stored pollen started to look bad. It was clumpy instead of powdery, > and > flowers pollinated with it often didn't set seeds. My rate of success on > crosses dropped by about 50% this year. > > I think what's happening is that the anthers are thawing and then > refreezing > over and over, and that's doing something to the pollen. Do you think > that's > likely, and if so, what can I do about it? I can think of a few options: > > --Don't freeze the anthers during the growing season. Store the film > canisters open in a cool day spot and hope the pollen remains viable. How > long is it likely to last when stored this way? > > --Remove the pollen from the anthers and freeze only the pollen. Will the > pollen alone tolerate thawing and freezing better than pollen on anthers? > > --Store the anthers in a refrigerator instead of a freezer. Maybe if they > don't actually freeze they won't deteriorate so quickly. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- James Shields jshields46074@gmail.com P.O. Box 92 Westfield, IN 46074 U.S.A. From garak@code-garak.de Fri, 13 May 2016 11:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1f1d9d47-380b-4e3a-db0e-4a34a6877e59@code-garak.de> From: Garak Subject: Any suggestions on storing pollen? Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 19:19:00 +0200 Hi James, thank you for this page of valuable information. One little comment: You recommend blue silica gel to dry pollen. this uses Cobalt(II) chloride as humidity indicator, which was identified as highly carcinogenic in recent years. It (hopefully) should be difficult to obtain now and I strongly recommend anyone to give any remaining leftovers of blue silica gel to a professional disposal service, as there are several non-toxic alternatives. -- Martin ---------------------------------------------- Southern Germany Likely zone 7a Am 13.05.2016 um 18:44 schrieb James SHIELDS: > I put this page together years back on storing pollen: > > http://www.shieldsgardens.com/info/Pollen.html > > -- Jim > > On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Michael Mace > wrote: From cortocora@gmail.com Fri, 13 May 2016 11:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: "L. Cortopassi - G. Corazza" Subject: Any suggestions on storing pollen? Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 19:34:55 +0200 Hi, just try to open the canisters after they fully reached the room temperature, otherwise humidity condensation will moist the pollen. Gianluca Corazza, Italy, Z9 2016-05-13 19:19 GMT+02:00 Garak : > Hi James, > > thank you for this page of valuable information. One little comment: You > recommend blue silica gel to dry pollen. this uses Cobalt(II) chloride as > humidity indicator, which was identified as highly carcinogenic in recent > years. It (hopefully) should be difficult to obtain now and I strongly > recommend anyone to give any remaining leftovers of blue silica gel to a > professional disposal service, as there are several non-toxic alternatives. > > -- > Martin > ---------------------------------------------- > Southern Germany > Likely zone 7a > > > > Am 13.05.2016 um 18:44 schrieb James SHIELDS: > >> I put this page together years back on storing pollen: >> >> http://www.shieldsgardens.com/info/Pollen.html >> >> -- Jim >> >> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Michael Mace >> wrote: >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From markemazer@gmail.com Fri, 13 May 2016 12:17:02 -0700 Message-Id: From: Mark Mazer Subject: Any suggestions on storing pollen? Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 14:22:24 -0400 Blue silica gel MSDS: http://catalog.adcoa.net/Asset/Silica-Gel-41--42--46--48.pdf Walmart and several nationwide crafts store chains still carry it for flower drying in the US. I simply use the food dehydrator these days. Mark Mazer Hertford, NC USDA 8a On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:34 PM, L. Cortopassi - G. Corazza < cortocora@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > just try to open the canisters after they fully reached the room > temperature, otherwise humidity condensation will moist the pollen. > > Gianluca Corazza, Italy, Z9 > > > 2016-05-13 19:19 GMT+02:00 Garak : > > > Hi James, > > > > thank you for this page of valuable information. One little comment: You > > recommend blue silica gel to dry pollen. this uses Cobalt(II) chloride as > > humidity indicator, which was identified as highly carcinogenic in recent > > years. It (hopefully) should be difficult to obtain now and I strongly > > recommend anyone to give any remaining leftovers of blue silica gel to a > > professional disposal service, as there are several non-toxic > alternatives. > > > > -- > > Martin > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Southern Germany > > Likely zone 7a > > > > > > > > Am 13.05.2016 um 18:44 schrieb James SHIELDS: > > > >> I put this page together years back on storing pollen: > >> > >> http://www.shieldsgardens.com/info/Pollen.html > >> > >> -- Jim > >> > >> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Michael Mace > >> wrote: > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From garak@code-garak.de Fri, 13 May 2016 13:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Garak Subject: Blue Silica Gel - Was: Any suggestions on storing pollen? Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 21:49:28 +0200 Hi Mark I guess that's one of the differences in American and European treatment of hazardous substances - We in Europe assume there's *no safe concentration* for possibly carcinogenic substances, and we avoid them whenever there's a reasonable replacement.I whish I'd find a current reasonable European SDS for Cobalt-based Blue Silika Gel, but it has totally disappeared from the market, beside some obscure china imports - I only found one from Merck before the GHS-era, and back then it was marked as" T "(oxic) with "R49: May cause cancer in case of inhalation". So even if it's legal in the US, I'd still recommend against it. Martin Am 13.05.2016 um 20:22 schrieb Mark Mazer: > Blue silica gel MSDS: > http://catalog.adcoa.net/Asset/Silica-Gel-41--42--46--48.pdf > > Walmart and several nationwide crafts store chains still carry it for > flower drying in the US. > > I simply use the food dehydrator these days. > > Mark Mazer > Hertford, NC > USDA 8a > > > > 2016-05-13 19:19 GMT+02:00 Garak : > >>> Hi James, >>> >>> thank you for this page of valuable information. One little comment: You >>> recommend blue silica gel to dry pollen. this uses Cobalt(II) chloride as >>> humidity indicator, which was identified as highly carcinogenic in recent >>> years. It (hopefully) should be difficult to obtain now and I strongly >>> recommend anyone to give any remaining leftovers of blue silica gel to a >>> professional disposal service, as there are several non-toxic >> alternatives. >>> -- >>> Martin >>> ---------------------------------------------- >>> Southern Germany >>> Likely zone 7a >>> >>> >>> >>> Am 13.05.2016 um 18:44 schrieb James SHIELDS: >>> >>>> I put this page together years back on storing pollen: >>>> >>>> http://www.shieldsgardens.com/info/Pollen.html >>>> >>>> -- Jim >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Michael Mace >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- Martin ---------------------------------------------- Southern Germany Likely zone 7a From markemazer@gmail.com Fri, 13 May 2016 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Mark Mazer Subject: Blue Silica Gel - Was: Any suggestions on storing pollen? Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 18:16:56 -0400 It's probably covered under US Federal Labeling of Hazardous Art Materials Acts but there is no label here to check that as a fact. http://www.acminet.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36&Itemid=67 M On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Garak wrote: > > Hi Mark > > I guess that's one of the differences in American and European treatment > of hazardous substances - We in Europe assume there's *no safe > concentration* for possibly carcinogenic substances, and we avoid them > whenever there's a reasonable replacement.I whish I'd find a current > reasonable European SDS for Cobalt-based Blue Silika Gel, but it has > totally disappeared from the market, beside some obscure china imports - I > only found one from Merck before the GHS-era, and back then it was marked > as" T "(oxic) with "R49: May cause cancer in case of inhalation". So even > if it's legal in the US, I'd still recommend against it. > > Martin > > Am 13.05.2016 um 20:22 schrieb Mark Mazer: > >> Blue silica gel MSDS: >> http://catalog.adcoa.net/Asset/Silica-Gel-41--42--46--48.pdf >> >> Walmart and several nationwide crafts store chains still carry it for >> flower drying in the US. >> >> I simply use the food dehydrator these days. >> >> Mark Mazer >> Hertford, NC >> USDA 8a >> >> >> >> 2016-05-13 19:19 GMT+02:00 Garak : >> >> Hi James, >>>> >>>> thank you for this page of valuable information. One little comment: You >>>> recommend blue silica gel to dry pollen. this uses Cobalt(II) chloride >>>> as >>>> humidity indicator, which was identified as highly carcinogenic in >>>> recent >>>> years. It (hopefully) should be difficult to obtain now and I strongly >>>> recommend anyone to give any remaining leftovers of blue silica gel to a >>>> professional disposal service, as there are several non-toxic >>>> >>> alternatives. >>> >>>> -- >>>> Martin >>>> ---------------------------------------------- >>>> Southern Germany >>>> Likely zone 7a >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 13.05.2016 um 18:44 schrieb James SHIELDS: >>>> >>>> I put this page together years back on storing pollen: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.shieldsgardens.com/info/Pollen.html >>>>> >>>>> -- Jim >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Michael Mace >>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > > > -- > Martin > ---------------------------------------------- > Southern Germany > Likely zone 7a > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From markemazer@gmail.com Sat, 14 May 2016 10:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Mark Mazer Subject: Caught my eye this morning... Fritillaria and Emily Dickinson Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 12:51:11 -0400 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/17/science/emily-dickinson-lost-gardens.html?mabReward=A4&moduleDetail=recommendations-2&action=click&contentCollection=Art%20%26%20Design®ion=Footer&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&src=recg&pgtype=article From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Mon, 16 May 2016 11:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: The Silent Seed Subject: Importing bulbs? Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 13:41:06 -0400 A while ago, somebody said he wrote part of the regulations about importing bulbs, and said that dormant bulbs were OK to import without a permit - can somebody please forward that to me? Thanks -- The Silent Seed Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. thesilentseed.com From eez55@earthlink.net Tue, 17 May 2016 20:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <28659939.1463539749218.JavaMail.wam@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Eugene Zielinski Subject: PBS website contact:Trying to find Scadoxus Puniceus Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 19:49:09 -0700 (GMT-07:00) PBS received this message concerning the availability of Scadoxus puniceus in the USA. If you know of a source (of bulbs) in the United States, please send an e mail to Sean at Thank you. Eugene Zielinski Prescott Valley, AZ USA -----Original Message----- >Sent: May 16, 2016 4:11 PM >To: eez55@earthlink.net >Subject: PBS website contact:Trying to find Scadoxus Puniceus > > >Good day, > >I have been very pleasantly surprised to find so many plants from my native South Africa to be readily available in northern California where I now live. However, having said this I have searched high and low for Scadoxus Puniceus and have found no suppliers in the US. I was wondering if any of your members have ever grown or are currently growing Scadoxus. If you could point me in the right direction to find a plant I would be most appreciative. > >Sean Clinning > >-- >Pacific Bulb Society web site >email: website@pacificbulbsociety.org > From makimoff76@gmail.com Tue, 17 May 2016 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: mark akimoff Subject: Importing bulbs? Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 22:23:16 -0700 I wasn't the fellow that wrote anything but having recently applied for and received an import permit to ship bulbs in from France, I can tell you that France does require an import permit for the exporting nursery to get a phytosanitary certificate, which is required to import bulbs into the USA. If that helps? Mark A. Salem, Oregon A while ago, somebody said he wrote part of the regulations about importing bulbs, and said that dormant bulbs were OK to import without a permit - can somebody please forward that to me? Thanks -- The Silent Seed Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. thesilentseed.com From iranaquatic@yahoo.ca Wed, 18 May 2016 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <447661448.5244459.1463600688342.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Mohammad Sadegh Subject: Lilium ledebourii in my small Garden Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 19:44:48 +0000 (UTC) Hi  Pictures of my Lilium ledebourii plants in my small Garden .Bulbs were found from wild habitat where boars dig everywhere for foods .https://www.facebook.com/ishs.ir/posts/826506937480443 Earliest Lily in my small Garden .  Good Luck every bodyMohammad SadeghArdabil ,Iran _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From btankers@gmail.com Wed, 18 May 2016 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Importing bulbs? Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 17:36:51 -0500 I am not familiar with that conversation on the PBS but our Plant Importation Permit specifically states that bulbs are one of the plant forms covered by it. Boyce Tankersley Chicago Botanic Garden On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 12:41 PM, The Silent Seed wrote: > A while ago, somebody said he wrote part of the regulations about importing > bulbs, and said that dormant bulbs were OK to import without a permit - can > somebody please forward that to me? > Thanks > > -- > The Silent Seed > Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. > thesilentseed.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed, 18 May 2016 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <573CF72E.1000800@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Importing bulbs? Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 00:13:50 +0100 Hi, On 18/05/16 23:36, Boyce Tankersley wrote: > I am not familiar with that conversation on the PBS but our Plant Starts here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2016-March/vfq1bfmf53a9tkujovpkrckvr1.html -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Wed, 18 May 2016 17:17:02 -0700 Message-Id: From: The Silent Seed Subject: Importing bulbs? Date: Wed, 18 May 2016 19:25:29 -0400 Thank you very much! On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 7:13 PM, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > > On 18/05/16 23:36, Boyce Tankersley wrote: > >> I am not familiar with that conversation on the PBS but our Plant >> > > > Starts here: > > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2016-March/vfq1bfmf53a9tkujovpkrckvr1.html > > > -- > David Pilling > www.davidpilling.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- The Silent Seed Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. thesilentseed.com From blancawingate@gmail.com Fri, 20 May 2016 03:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <573EDECE.3000306@gmail.com> From: Blanca Wingate Subject: dylansbulbs - eBay Bids Blocked Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 02:54:22 -0700 Dear All, When I bid on dylansbulbs eBay auctions, my bids are immediately rejected and the message shown below appears. "Sorry, the seller is not accepting bids or offers from you at this time." From the Membership Directory, I am aware that the seller Dylan Hammon is a fellow member of PBS, but I am not acquainted with him. I have not received any negative feedback on eBay, and my PayPal account in good standing. I just don't understand what caused this situation. As a person with a need to comprehend things, I wrote to Dylan Hammon via the eBay site introducing myself and politely inquiring about why I was blocked from bidding on his auctions. I even provided Diana Chapman and Kevin Preuss as references. However, Mr. Hammon has never responded. Unfortunately, eBay cannot provide an explanation. The Amaryllidaceae are my passion (especially Hippeastrum species). I confess that my feelings are hurt. I wondered if any other PBS members have had this experience. Many thanks for any insights into this exclusionary state of affairs. Kind regards, Blanca in California From cherimoya9@gmail.com Fri, 20 May 2016 15:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: J H Subject: dylansbulbs - eBay Bids Blocked Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 14:19:26 -0700 Blanca - Sellers can choose to automatically block bidders who meet certain conditions, like not having a Paypal account, having a negative feedback rating, or buyers who have "strikes" (failed to pay other sellers). The full list is here: http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/buyer-requirements.html From blancawingate@gmail.com Fri, 20 May 2016 17:17:02 -0700 Message-Id: <573FA6EA.4000109@gmail.com> From: Blanca Wingate Subject: dylansbulbs - eBay Bids Blocked Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 17:08:10 -0700 Hi JH, Yes, I checked. However, none of the conditions specified by eBay apply to me. In addition, I have never purchased anything from dylansbulbs. A family member who also has a 100% positive feedback rating with nearly 700 transactions tried to purchase a species Hippeastrum bulb as a gift for me, but he was blocked as well. We both wrote to Mr. Hammon long ago to inquire about the situation, but received no response. I tried bidding again yesterday to see if anything had changed. It appears that he simply does not want our business. Thank you for trying to help. Sincerely, Blanca From glenjamieson@yahoo.co.uk Sat, 21 May 2016 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1730587154.222222.1463826059184.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: glen jamieson Subject: Dylon'sbulbs and introduction Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 10:20:59 +0000 (UTC) Hi my name is Glen Jamieson I live on the south coast  of  the UK and have been a member for a whilemy main interest is  Dendrobium and Cymbidium orchids with an ever growing interest  in Irids.I have just looked at Dylonsbulbs on Ebay.com and one (clue) is the items are priced in Maleysian  Ringetsperhaps he is not based  in the US.best wishes Glen _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From amstgrp@yahoo.com Sat, 21 May 2016 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: amstgrp Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 20:42:13 -0400 If you buy bulbs or win bids on EBay from Komoriya Nursery, they will ship 12 bulbs or less per box as one order. Evidently this falls as a retail sale in U.S. rules and as long as they get a phyto cert. and pack and ship it correctly people with no permit can receive the order/box with no problem. It is properly inspected in Japan and in the U. S. Then delivered to your address. Mine are always held for me at the Post Office, where there is ac\heat, because I am not at home when the mail truck comes. If you order from Royal Colors, the same 12 bulbs per order and phyto cert. from country of origin applies. I do not know how customs defines importing from a small overseas purchase. Depending on the volume you need you should find an experienced seller or be prepared to train the people who have the bulbs you want.You may want to contact and make a list of international shipping companies known to handle small lots of bulbs like the companies used by Komoriya & Royal Colors in the countries you need. Good luck. E. Wm. Warren Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device From aley_wd@icloud.com Sat, 21 May 2016 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 20:56:11 -0400 12 or less plant units when shipped to the US with a Phytosanitary certificate do not require an import Permit but must go to a USDA plant Inspection station before delivery to final destination. https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/import-information/permits/plants-and-plant-products-permits/plants-for-planting/ct_permit_plantmaterials https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/import-information/permits/plants-and-plant-products-permits/plants-for-planting/ct_nursery Sent from my iPhone > On May 21, 2016, at 20:42, amstgrp wrote: > > If you buy bulbs or win bids on EBay from Komoriya Nursery, they will ship 12 bulbs or less per box as one order. Evidently this falls as a retail sale in U.S. rules and as long as they get a phyto cert. and pack and ship it correctly people with no permit can receive the order/box with no problem. It is properly inspected in Japan and in the U. S. Then delivered to your address. Mine are always held for me at the Post Office, where there is ac\heat, because I am not at home when the mail truck comes. > If you order from Royal Colors, the same 12 bulbs per order and phyto cert. from country of origin applies. I do not know how customs defines importing from a small overseas purchase. > Depending on the volume you need you should find an experienced seller or be prepared to train the people who have the bulbs you want.You may want to contact and make a list of international shipping companies known to handle small lots of bulbs like the companies used by Komoriya & Royal Colors in the countries you need. > Good luck. > E. Wm. Warren > > Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From aley_wd@icloud.com Sat, 21 May 2016 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 20:57:26 -0400 But a USDA Permit is free and why be limited by 12? Sent from my iPhone > On May 21, 2016, at 20:42, amstgrp wrote: > > If you buy bulbs or win bids on EBay from Komoriya Nursery, they will ship 12 bulbs or less per box as one order. Evidently this falls as a retail sale in U.S. rules and as long as they get a phyto cert. and pack and ship it correctly people with no permit can receive the order/box with no problem. It is properly inspected in Japan and in the U. S. Then delivered to your address. Mine are always held for me at the Post Office, where there is ac\heat, because I am not at home when the mail truck comes. > If you order from Royal Colors, the same 12 bulbs per order and phyto cert. from country of origin applies. I do not know how customs defines importing from a small overseas purchase. > Depending on the volume you need you should find an experienced seller or be prepared to train the people who have the bulbs you want.You may want to contact and make a list of international shipping companies known to handle small lots of bulbs like the companies used by Komoriya & Royal Colors in the countries you need. > Good luck. > E. Wm. Warren > > Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 21 May 2016 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <5C865D03DCBA4C9790A7DD146043A396@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 20:16:44 -0600 >12 or less plant units when shipped to the US with a Phytosanitary certificate do not require an import Permit but must go to a USDA plant Inspection station before delivery to final destination. But “What Plant Material Requires A Permit?” specifically excludes bulbs (except those mentioned in the document, “Bulbs of Allium sativum , Crocosmia spp., Gladiolus spp. and Watsonia spp. from New Zealand; Cocos nucifera (coconut); and articles (except seeds) of Dianthus spp. from any country except Canada”) from the permit process. “Under the nursery stock quarantine (7CFR319.37-3), the following restricted articles (other than articles for food, analytical, medicinal, or manufacturing purposes) in any of the following categories may be imported or offered for importation into the United States only after issuance of a written permit by Plant Protection and Quarantine: Lots of 13 or more articles (other than seeds, bulbs, or sterile cultures of orchid plants) from any country or locality except Canada” The wording is unambiguous. Lots of 13 or more bulbs do not require a written permit. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Sat, 21 May 2016 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <346276300.51736.1463884948410.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 02:42:28 +0000 (UTC) It seem that the sentences on the website of APHIS may not be the full one in the ecfr. "https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/import-information/permits/plants-and-plant-products-permits/plants-for-planting/ct_permit_plantmaterials Under the nursery stock quarantine (7CFR319.37-3), the following restricted articles (other than articles for food, analytical, medicinal, or manufacturing purposes) in any of the following categories may be imported or offered for importation into the United States only after issuance of a written permit by Plant Protection and Quarantine: - Lots of 13 or more articles (other than seeds, bulbs, or sterile cultures of orchid plants) from any country or locality except Canada; " "http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=c97e73c794eff7f409e09da6b293c812;rgn=div5;view=text;node=7%3A5.1.1.1.6;idno=7;cc=ecfr#7:5.1.1.1.6.9.36.8 §319.37-3   Permits. (a) The restricted articles (other than articles for food, analytical, medicinal, or manufacturing purposes) in any of the following categories may be imported or offered for importation into the United States only after issuance of a written permit by the Plant Protection and Quarantine Programs in accordance with §§319.7 through 319.7-5:(1) Lots of 13 or more articles (other than seeds of herbaceous plants, precleared bulbs of a taxon approved by APHIS for preclearance, or sterile cultures of orchid plants) from any country or locality except Canada; " _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 21 May 2016 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <145D3FFA30984FFF8D69CB1D36503345@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 21:15:34 -0600 >§319.37-3 Permits. >(a) The restricted articles (other than articles for food, analytical, >medicinal, or manufacturing purposes) in any of the following categories >may be imported or offered for importation into the United States >only >after issuance of a written permit by the Plant Protection and Quarantine >Programs in accordance with §§319.7 through 319.7-5:(1) Lots of 13 or more >articles (other than seeds of herbaceous plants, >precleared bulbs of a >taxon approved by APHIS for preclearance, or sterile cultures of orchid >plants) from any country or locality except Canada; " It does say that. (I've read this document in its entirety several times.) So what are “precleared bulbs of a taxon approved by APHIS for preclearance”? The document explains that. "Preclearance. Phytosanitary inspection and/or clearance in the country in which the articles were grown, performed by or under the regular supervision of APHIS." §319.75-9 Inspection and phytosanitary certificate of inspection. (a) Any nursery stock, plant, fruit, vegetable, root, bulb, or other plant product designated as a regulated article and grown in a country maintaining an official system of inspection for the purpose of determining whether such article is free from injurious plant diseases, injurious insect pests, and other plant pests shall be accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate of inspection from the plant protection service of such country at the time of importation or offer for importation into the United States. Such certificate may cover more than one article and more than one container kept together during shipment and offer for importation. (b) Any nursery stock, plant, fruit, vegetable, root, bulb, seed, or other plant product designated as a regulated article which is accompanied by a valid phytosanitary certificate of inspection is subject to inspection by an inspector at the time of importation into the United States for the purpose of determining whether such article is free of injurious plant diseases, injurious insect pests, and other plant pests, and whether such article is otherwise eligible to be imported into the United States. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From aley_wd@icloud.com Sat, 21 May 2016 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 23:28:32 -0400 The Netherlands and Israel have Preclearance programs where the plants are inspected during growth and by a us government foreign assigned inspector. This in in conjunction with the program supervised by the production government. Most Dutch bulbs enter the US as precleared. They are inspected by the department of Homeland Security and are not inspected by USDA because the plants are grown to a higher level of scrutiny. Sent from my iPhone On May 21, 2016, at 23:15, penstemon wrote: >> §319.37-3 Permits. >> (a) The restricted articles (other than articles for food, analytical, medicinal, or manufacturing purposes) in any of the following categories may be imported or offered for importation into the United States >only after issuance of a written permit by the Plant Protection and Quarantine Programs in accordance with §§319.7 through 319.7-5:(1) Lots of 13 or more articles (other than seeds of herbaceous plants, >precleared bulbs of a taxon approved by APHIS for preclearance, or sterile cultures of orchid plants) from any country or locality except Canada; " > > > > It does say that. (I've read this document in its entirety several times.) So what are “precleared bulbs of a taxon approved by APHIS for preclearance”? > The document explains that. > "Preclearance. Phytosanitary inspection and/or clearance in the country in which the articles were grown, performed by or under the regular supervision of APHIS." > > §319.75-9 Inspection and phytosanitary certificate of inspection. > (a) Any nursery stock, plant, fruit, vegetable, root, bulb, or other plant product designated as a regulated article and grown in a country maintaining an official system of inspection for the purpose of determining whether such article is free from injurious plant diseases, injurious insect pests, and other plant pests shall be accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate of inspection from the plant protection service of such country at the time of importation or offer for importation into the United States. Such certificate may cover more than one article and more than one container kept together during shipment and offer for importation. > > (b) Any nursery stock, plant, fruit, vegetable, root, bulb, seed, or other plant product designated as a regulated article which is accompanied by a valid phytosanitary certificate of inspection is subject to inspection by an inspector at the time of importation into the United States for the purpose of determining whether such article is free of injurious plant diseases, injurious insect pests, and other plant pests, and whether such article is otherwise eligible to be imported into the United States. > > > Bob Nold > Denver, Colorado, USA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From aley_wd@icloud.com Sat, 21 May 2016 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5C58F2FA-E21D-4235-8851-3FC1C3B2F2D5@icloud.com> From: William Aley Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 23:33:08 -0400 The US system allows for any plant to be imported unless there is a reason not to allow it to be imported. This is most likely because the list would have been long when this was published. Currently USDA is starting NAPPRA. Which will reverse how plants may be allowed import. Only plant taxa that have a pest risk assessment completed would have the conditions of import published. All others would not be admissible. Sent from my iPhone On May 21, 2016, at 22:16, penstemon wrote: >> 12 or less plant units when shipped to the US with a Phytosanitary certificate do not require an import Permit but must go to a USDA plant Inspection station before delivery to final destination. > > > But “What Plant Material Requires A Permit?” specifically excludes bulbs (except those mentioned in the document, “Bulbs of Allium sativum , Crocosmia spp., Gladiolus spp. and Watsonia spp. from New Zealand; Cocos nucifera (coconut); and articles (except seeds) of Dianthus spp. from any country except Canada”) from the permit process. > “Under the nursery stock quarantine (7CFR319.37-3), the following restricted articles (other than articles for food, analytical, medicinal, or manufacturing purposes) in any of the following categories may be imported or offered for importation into the United States only after issuance of a written permit by Plant Protection and Quarantine: > Lots of 13 or more articles (other than seeds, bulbs, or sterile cultures of orchid plants) from any country or locality except Canada” > > The wording is unambiguous. Lots of 13 or more bulbs do not require a written permit. > > > Bob Nold > Denver, Colorado, USA > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Sat, 21 May 2016 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <978277032.58001.1463888951348.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 03:49:11 +0000 (UTC) It seems that only some countries are in the Preclearance Program now, and not all species and nurseries in these countries may be qualified. "https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/complete-list-of-electronic-manualshttps://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/manuals/ports/downloads/plants_for_planting.pdf Bulbs and Underground Portions of Dormant PerennialPreclearance Program The preclearance program for specific taxa of bulbs and underground portionsof dormant perennials are in effect in Belgium, Chile, Ireland, Israel, theNetherlands, South Africa, Turkey (via the Netherlands only), and UnitedKingdom. All requirements for the preclearance program must be met toqualify for the preclearance program.  When not meeting the preclearance program requirements, the plants aresubject to general restrictions for admissibility and any additional restrictionsfor the commodity, including inspection.  Precleared Bulbs from the Netherlands via Canada Precleared bulbs from the Netherlands via Canada are authorized entry fromCanada.  Precleared Bulbs from Turkey Precleared bulbs and underground portions of dormant perennials grown inTurkey and shipped from the Netherlands are authorized entry as part of theNetherlands preclearance program and may only enter from the Netherlands.  To start the process of regulating bulbs and underground portions of dormantperennials, see Table 7-1." _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 21 May 2016 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1EAABFA5B9374974A70361E3FC2DD4A4@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 22:13:42 -0600 >The Netherlands and Israel have Preclearance programs where the plants are inspected during growth and by a us government foreign assigned inspector. This in in conjunction with the program >supervised by the production government. Most Dutch bulbs enter the US as precleared. They are inspected by the department of Homeland Security and are not inspected by USDA because the plants are >grown to a higher level of scrutiny. Appreciate the clarification. I suppose the large volume of bulbs exported from these countries makes this a more practical and necessary method of inspection. The “and/or” in the sentence"Preclearance. Phytosanitary inspection and/or clearance in the country in which the articles were grown, performed by or under the regular supervision of APHIS" parses as “/either/ (a choice between two things) both phytosanitary certificate and clearance in the country, etc.”, /or/, (an alternative), just “phytosanitary certificate”. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 21 May 2016 22:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1BD5CC7CD4884E0CBE94C95125C41C95@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Importing bulbs Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 22:16:30 -0600 >The US system allows for any plant to be imported unless there is a reason not to allow it to be imported. This is most likely because the list would have been long when this was published. Currently >USDA is starting NAPPRA. Which will reverse how plants may be allowed import. Only plant taxa that have a pest risk assessment completed would have the conditions of import published. All others >would not be admissible. More stuff to read! Bob Nold Denver, Colorado, USA From pelarg@aol.com Sun, 22 May 2016 09:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <154d93eb109-2a60-73e1@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 12:14:05 -0400 If this is true it will create more problems than it will fix. The current system of "innocent until proven guilty", ie allowing the importation of taxa that have not shown themselves to be a risk or likely risk is a better system than using NAPPRA. And properly applied the current system is perfectly capable of excluding taxa that are likely to present problems if imported, if anything I dare say that some of the currently disallowed taxa are of low risk if any to US agriculture. Ernie DeMarie In NY where Allium moly and camassias are in bloom, including a rare pink form I got years ago from a former nursery woman out in Oregon, and the summer growing bulbs in pots are going outside while the winter growers in the garage are finished or finishing up for the most part. Winter hardy gladioli galtonia, Ledebouria cooperi, Crocosmias, Dieramas, Galtonia, Crinum bulbispermum (and Super Ellen and x powelli), and Agapanthus are all up among others and I still wait for Eucomis, which is always the last thing to emerge. Also seeing growth just starting on well protected (wood chip mulch) Erythrina zeyheri. -----Original Message----- From: William Aley To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, May 21, 2016 11:34 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Importing bulbs The US system allows for any plant to be imported unless there is a reason not to allow it to be imported. This is most likely because the list would have been long when this was published. Currently USDA is starting NAPPRA. Which will reverse how plants may be allowed import. Only plant taxa that have a pest risk assessment completed would have the conditions of import published. All others would not be admissible. From robin@hansennursery.com Sun, 22 May 2016 10:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <000901d1b446$b854a340$28fde9c0$@hansennursery.com> From: "Hansen Nursery" Subject: possible change - now Ledebouria Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 09:26:39 -0700 Ernie, You mention Ledebouria cooperi as being winter-hardy? What zone are you in and how cold do your winters get? I'd like to try putting it in the rock garden but haven't heard too many people talk about it. Robin in southwestern Oregon on the coast, Zone 9, more or less Hansen Nursery robin@hansennursery.com -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pelarg@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 9:14 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) Ernie DeMarie In NY where Allium moly and camassias are in bloom, including a rare pink form I got years ago from a former nursery woman out in Oregon, and the summer growing bulbs in pots are going outside while the winter growers in the garage are finished or finishing up for the most part. Winter hardy gladioli galtonia, Ledebouria cooperi, Crocosmias, Dieramas, Galtonia, Crinum bulbispermum (and Super Ellen and x powelli), and Agapanthus are all up among others and I still wait for Eucomis, which is always the last thing to emerge. Also seeing growth just starting on well protected (wood chip mulch) Erythrina zeyheri. From janjeddeloh@gmail.com Sun, 22 May 2016 12:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jan Jeddeloh Subject: possible change - now Ledebouria Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 12:01:34 -0700 Emma at Wild Ginger Farm says there Ledebouria cooperi has been hardy outside for them for years. They’re up in the hills a bit and probably zone 7 so it ought to be hardy for you. She has it in a well drained, fairly sunny spot. Jan in Portland, Oregon. More or less zone 8. > On May 22, 2016, at 9:26 AM, Hansen Nursery wrote: > > Ernie, > > You mention Ledebouria cooperi as being winter-hardy? What zone are you in > and how cold do your winters get? I'd like to try putting it in the rock > garden but haven't heard too many people talk about it. > > Robin in southwestern Oregon on the coast, Zone 9, more or less > Hansen Nursery > robin@hansennursery.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pelarg@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 9:14 AM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) > > > Ernie DeMarie > In NY where Allium moly and camassias are in bloom, including a rare pink > form I got years ago from a former nursery woman out in Oregon, and the > summer growing bulbs in pots are going outside while the winter growers in > the garage are finished or finishing up for the most part. Winter hardy > gladioli galtonia, Ledebouria cooperi, Crocosmias, Dieramas, Galtonia, > Crinum bulbispermum (and Super Ellen and x powelli), and Agapanthus are all > up among others and I still wait for Eucomis, which is always the last thing > to emerge. Also seeing growth just starting on well protected (wood chip > mulch) Erythrina zeyheri. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From markemazer@gmail.com Sun, 22 May 2016 12:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Mark Mazer Subject: possible change - now Ledebouria Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 15:10:58 -0400 L. cooperi has been hardy here on the NE coastal plain of North Carolina for the past decade. Min temp, about 13F; max frost depth, couple of inches. Never tried it in the former NW CT garden, zone 5ish. Mark Mazer Hertford, NC On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Hansen Nursery wrote: > Ernie, > > You mention Ledebouria cooperi as being winter-hardy? What zone are you in > and how cold do your winters get? I'd like to try putting it in the rock > garden but haven't heard too many people talk about it. > > Robin in southwestern Oregon on the coast, Zone 9, more or less > Hansen Nursery > robin@hansennursery.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > pelarg@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 9:14 AM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) > > > Ernie DeMarie > In NY where Allium moly and camassias are in bloom, including a rare pink > form I got years ago from a former nursery woman out in Oregon, and the > summer growing bulbs in pots are going outside while the winter growers in > the garage are finished or finishing up for the most part. Winter hardy > gladioli galtonia, Ledebouria cooperi, Crocosmias, Dieramas, Galtonia, > Crinum bulbispermum (and Super Ellen and x powelli), and Agapanthus are all > up among others and I still wait for Eucomis, which is always the last > thing > to emerge. Also seeing growth just starting on well protected (wood chip > mulch) Erythrina zeyheri. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From enoster@hotmail.com Sun, 22 May 2016 13:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Travis O Subject: What species takes the longest to flower from seed? Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 12:32:29 -0700 For the sake of conversation... I once read of some SA amaryllid (Boophone, maybe?) that took around 15 years to flower from seed. I wonder, what is the longest time it has taken a bulb to flower from seed? I'd also be curious what the evolutionary advantages of such a long wait before flowering are? I understand how for an annual plant, reproduction is of higher priority than survival. With the long lived bulbs (and trees and shrubs, I guess) mere survival trumps reproduction. What are the driving factors, environment? Availability/type of pollinators? Travis Owen Rogue River, OR www.amateuranthecologist.com www.oldsolbees.com www.pacificbulbsociety.org From robin@no1bird.net Sun, 22 May 2016 13:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Robin Carrier Subject: BX 398 CLOSED Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 16:06:46 -0400 oh dear! what was/is it?? > On May 12, 2016, at 7:07 AM, ds429 wrote: > > Packages should go out in a week or so. > > Enjoy, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From robin@no1bird.net Sun, 22 May 2016 13:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <89EE9E6D-C426-47D6-B1AB-DFEEB770C0A1@no1bird.net> From: Robin Carrier Subject: BX 398 CLOSED Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 16:08:42 -0400 i didn’t understand the response. > On May 22, 2016, at 4:06 PM, Robin Carrier wrote: > > oh dear! what was/is it?? >> On May 12, 2016, at 7:07 AM, ds429 wrote: >> >> Packages should go out in a week or so. >> >> Enjoy, >> Dell >> >> Dell Sherk, PBS BX >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From aley_wd@icloud.com Sun, 22 May 2016 13:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 16:12:37 -0400 Unfortunately NAPPRA is now the rule of the import system. There are USDA staff busy placing taxa on the NAPPRA in conjunction with university scientists to compile the background documents. The problem is USDA does not know uf a taxa is a host to a disease that could become established or if the taxa is a potential plant lest ie:weed. No one will have an understanding of the potential until a Pest Risk Analysis is completed. Once upon a time USDA was chided by the American horticultural Association because a popular plant was not allowed to be imported into the USA. It was viewed at the worlds fair to be the most adaptive , tough and disease resistant taxa and it would not only stabilise the soil it would also add nitrogen to the soul. So USDA allowed unregulated import of the plant to satisfy not only horticulturalist but soil conservationists. The result is a plant know as kudzu. The rest is history. So is unregulated import of unknown plants a good idea until something goes wrong? Then try to clean up the environment after? Who pays for the clean up of plants tossed from a private garden into the hedge row that eventually naturalise and begin invading the environment and other peoples gardens? USDA has this dilemma. People who want unlimited access to plant taxa and conservationist that want to protect the natural birth American ecosystems. Currently we are seeing the demise of the North American Elm forests.they became a climax plant following the demise of the American chestnut. What climax species will out live the death of elm trees? Sent from my iPhone > On May 22, 2016, at 12:14, pelarg@aol.com wrote: > > > If this is true it will create more problems than it will fix. The current system of "innocent until proven guilty", ie allowing the importation of taxa that have not shown themselves to be a risk or likely risk is a better system than using NAPPRA. And properly applied the current system is perfectly capable of excluding taxa that are likely to present problems if imported, if anything I dare say that some of the currently disallowed taxa are of low risk if any to US agriculture. > Ernie DeMarie > In NY where Allium moly and camassias are in bloom, including a rare pink form I got years ago from a former nursery woman out in Oregon, and the summer growing bulbs in pots are going outside while the winter growers in the garage are finished or finishing up for the most part. Winter hardy gladioli galtonia, Ledebouria cooperi, Crocosmias, Dieramas, Galtonia, Crinum bulbispermum (and Super Ellen and x powelli), and Agapanthus are all up among others and I still wait for Eucomis, which is always the last thing to emerge. Also seeing growth just starting on well protected (wood chip mulch) Erythrina zeyheri. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Aley > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Sat, May 21, 2016 11:34 pm > Subject: Re: [pbs] Importing bulbs > > The US system allows for any plant to be imported unless there is a reason not to allow it to be imported. This is most likely because the list would have been long when this was published. Currently USDA is starting NAPPRA. Which will reverse how plants may be allowed import. Only plant taxa that have a pest risk assessment completed would have the conditions of import published. All others would not be admissible. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sun, 22 May 2016 14:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: The Silent Seed Subject: BX 398 CLOSED Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 16:20:31 -0400 Robin, You may be new and unfamiliar. After each BX offering, Dell sends a message saying that the packages are being shipped to those who ordered, to let us know they're on their way. If you did not order; then you can disregard that message. On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Robin Carrier wrote: > i didn’t understand the response. > > On May 22, 2016, at 4:06 PM, Robin Carrier wrote: > > > > oh dear! what was/is it?? > >> On May 12, 2016, at 7:07 AM, ds429 wrote: > >> > >> Packages should go out in a week or so. > >> > >> Enjoy, > >> Dell > >> > >> Dell Sherk, PBS BX > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- The Silent Seed Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. thesilentseed.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From vbouffard55@msn.com Sun, 22 May 2016 14:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Vivien Bouffard Subject: ledebouria cooperi Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 17:04:55 -0400 I've been overwintering Ledebouria cooperi in my unheated breezeway here in Zone 6 for years, leaving it in the pot it grows in. A few years ago, it had multiplied enough that I experimented with putting some bulbs in the ground. This is the third spring in a row it has returned. I don't know that I'd claim it's thriving out there, but it has definitely survived the cold. I find it to be pretty vigorous in a shallow pot. Vivien Bouffard Norwood, MA Z6 From penstemon@Q.com Sun, 22 May 2016 17:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: "penstemon" Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 17:43:50 -0600 >So is unregulated import of unknown plants a good idea until something goes wrong? Then try to clean up the environment after? Who pays for the clean up of plants tossed from a private garden into >the hedge row that eventually naturalise and begin invading the environment and other peoples gardens? >USDA has this dilemma. People who want unlimited access to plant taxa and conservationist that want to protect the natural birth American ecosystems. Regulating import of unknown plants seems perfectly reasonable to me. I would be wary of introducing anything unknown into my garden..... The taxa I would import, however, are not unknown. Most are familiar garden plants, though they are different species. Crocus, iris, corydalis, etc. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado, USA From msittner@mcn.org Sun, 22 May 2016 17:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <0a0e06f7-2bc0-4f29-0f30-dae019eb5138@mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: What species takes the longest to flower from seed? Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 17:05:48 -0700 So many environmental factors go into how fast a bulb goes from seed to flower. A lot of talented growers on this list speed up the process. We visited Harry Hay in the UK in 2004 and we saw Pseudogaltonia clavata in flower. Harry said it weighed over a kilo and took 21 years from seed to flower. He obviously had a lot of patience. Nhu is growing this same species. Perhaps it will flower sooner for him. Mary Sue From robin@no1bird.net Sun, 22 May 2016 18:17:02 -0700 Message-Id: From: Robin Carrier Subject: What species takes the longest to flower from seed? Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 21:05:24 -0400 he should live so long….. > On May 22, 2016, at 8:05 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > > So many environmental factors go into how fast a bulb goes from seed to flower. A lot of talented growers on this list speed up the process. We visited Harry Hay in the UK in 2004 and we saw Pseudogaltonia clavata in flower. Harry said it weighed over a kilo and took 21 years from seed to flower. He obviously had a lot of patience. Nhu is growing this same species. Perhaps it will flower sooner for him. > > Mary Sue > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Sun, 22 May 2016 19:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <701251931.591022.1463967215729.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 01:33:35 +0000 (UTC) Kudzu was not wanted by gardeners and its current pest status is due to the US government using it as a soil stabilizer. They spent millions planting it directly or paying farmers to plant it by the acre. The Smithsonian had great article that discussed most of the history with a few things left out. This is not one that can be blamed on gardeners. The same can be said for Morus alba, Microstegium which came in through Oak Ridge as packing material, and probably numerous others. A few I see regularly are various Eleagnus promoted as a mining recovery plant, Lespedeza was planted in these sites as well. So now the question is how much will an assessment cost for an unintroduced to cultivation species so that it is NAPPRA allowable?  Aaron From: William Aley To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) Unfortunately NAPPRA is now the rule of the import system. There are USDA staff busy placing taxa on the NAPPRA in conjunction with university scientists to compile the background documents. The problem is USDA does not know uf a taxa is a host to a disease that could become established or if the taxa is a potential plant lest ie:weed. No one will have an understanding of the potential until a Pest Risk Analysis is completed. Once upon a time USDA was chided by the American horticultural Association because a popular plant was not allowed to be imported into the USA. It was viewed at the worlds fair to be the most adaptive , tough and disease resistant taxa and it would not only stabilise the soil it would also add nitrogen to the soul. So USDA  allowed unregulated import of the plant to satisfy not only horticulturalist but soil conservationists.  The result is a plant know as kudzu. The rest is history. So is unregulated import of unknown plants a good idea until something goes wrong? Then try to clean up the environment after?  Who pays for the clean up of plants tossed from a private garden into the hedge row that eventually naturalise and begin invading the environment and other peoples gardens? _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From aley_wd@icloud.com Sun, 22 May 2016 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 01:58:05 -0400 The issue from the developer of NAPPRA is that few plants have a 'Pest profile' that a PRA establishes. Best also from the early days of unbridled plant imports http://maxshores.com/the-amazing-story-of-kudzu/ Sent from my iPhone > On May 22, 2016, at 21:33, aaron floden wrote: > > Kudzu was not wanted by gardeners and its current pest status is due to the US government using it as a soil stabilizer. They spent millions planting it directly or paying farmers to plant it by the acre. The Smithsonian had great article that discussed most of the history with a few things left out. This is not one that can be blamed on gardeners. The same can be said for Morus alba, Microstegium which came in through Oak Ridge as packing material, and probably numerous others. A few I see regularly are various Eleagnus promoted as a mining recovery plant, Lespedeza was planted in these sites as well. > So now the question is how much will an assessment cost for an unintroduced to cultivation species so that it is NAPPRA allowable? > > Aaron > > From: William Aley > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:12 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) > > Unfortunately NAPPRA is now the rule of the import system. There are USDA staff busy placing taxa on the NAPPRA in conjunction with university scientists to compile the background documents. The problem is USDA does not know uf a taxa is a host to a disease that could become established or if the taxa is a potential plant lest ie:weed. No one will have an understanding of the potential until a Pest Risk Analysis is completed. Once upon a time USDA was chided by the American horticultural Association because a popular plant was not allowed to be imported into the USA. It was viewed at the worlds fair to be the most adaptive , tough and disease resistant taxa and it would not only stabilise the soil it would also add nitrogen to the soul. So USDA allowed unregulated import of the plant to satisfy not only horticulturalist but soil conservationists. The result is a plant know as kudzu. The rest is history. So is unregulated import of unknown plants a good idea until somethin g > goes wrong? Then try to clean up the environment after? Who pays for the clean up of plants tossed from a private garden into the hedge row that eventually naturalise and begin invading the environment and other peoples gardens? > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From zigur@hotmail.com Mon, 23 May 2016 00:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 23:35:44 -0700 NAPPRA doesn't have a credibility profile. What should we do? PRA doesn't "establish" anything. As has been discussed many times on this forum, the invasiveness question is highly subjective and dependent on locale. Furthermore, the USDA lacks the fundamental knowledge to make any informed decision and ignores advice given even when requested. Their funding would be better spent subsidizing informed pest control at a local level. T > On May 22, 2016, at 11:01 PM, William Aley wrote: > > The issue from the developer of NAPPRA is that few plants have a 'Pest profile' that a PRA establishes. Best also from the early days of unbridled plant imports > http://maxshores.com/the-amazing-story-of-kudzu/ > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 22, 2016, at 21:33, aaron floden wrote: >> >> Kudzu was not wanted by gardeners and its current pest status is due to the US government using it as a soil stabilizer. They spent millions planting it directly or paying farmers to plant it by the acre. The Smithsonian had great article that discussed most of the history with a few things left out. This is not one that can be blamed on gardeners. The same can be said for Morus alba, Microstegium which came in through Oak Ridge as packing material, and probably numerous others. A few I see regularly are various Eleagnus promoted as a mining recovery plant, Lespedeza was planted in these sites as well. >> So now the question is how much will an assessment cost for an unintroduced to cultivation species so that it is NAPPRA allowable? >> >> Aaron >> >> From: William Aley >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) >> >> Unfortunately NAPPRA is now the rule of the import system. There are USDA staff busy placing taxa on the NAPPRA in conjunction with university scientists to compile the background documents. The problem is USDA does not know uf a taxa is a host to a disease that could become established or if the taxa is a potential plant lest ie:weed. No one will have an understanding of the potential until a Pest Risk Analysis is completed. Once upon a time USDA was chided by the American horticultural Association because a popular plant was not allowed to be imported into the USA. It was viewed at the worlds fair to be the most adaptive , tough and disease resistant taxa and it would not only stabilise the soil it would also add nitrogen to the soul. So USDA allowed unregulated import of the plant to satisfy not only horticulturalist but soil conservationists. The result is a plant know as kudzu. The rest is history. So is unregulated import of unknown plants a good idea until somethi n > g >> goes wrong? Then try to clean up the environment after? Who pays for the clean up of plants tossed from a private garden into the hedge row that eventually naturalise and begin invading the environment and other peoples gardens? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From aley_wd@icloud.com Mon, 23 May 2016 03:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <9CEBDD26-180D-44BF-B5B0-E0D77E8B998D@icloud.com> From: William Aley Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 06:08:24 -0400 Cool, glad you have it all worked out. Gives me a level of confidence. Sent from my iPhone > On May 23, 2016, at 02:35, Tim Harvey wrote: > > NAPPRA doesn't have a credibility profile. What should we do? > > PRA doesn't "establish" anything. As has been discussed many times on this forum, the invasiveness question is highly subjective and dependent on locale. Furthermore, the USDA lacks the fundamental knowledge to make any informed decision and ignores advice given even when requested. Their funding would be better spent subsidizing informed pest control at a local level. > > T > >> On May 22, 2016, at 11:01 PM, William Aley wrote: >> >> The issue from the developer of NAPPRA is that few plants have a 'Pest profile' that a PRA establishes. Best also from the early days of unbridled plant imports >> http://maxshores.com/the-amazing-story-of-kudzu/ >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 22, 2016, at 21:33, aaron floden wrote: >>> >>> Kudzu was not wanted by gardeners and its current pest status is due to the US government using it as a soil stabilizer. They spent millions planting it directly or paying farmers to plant it by the acre. The Smithsonian had great article that discussed most of the history with a few things left out. This is not one that can be blamed on gardeners. The same can be said for Morus alba, Microstegium which came in through Oak Ridge as packing material, and probably numerous others. A few I see regularly are various Eleagnus promoted as a mining recovery plant, Lespedeza was planted in these sites as well. >>> So now the question is how much will an assessment cost for an unintroduced to cultivation species so that it is NAPPRA allowable? >>> >>> Aaron >>> >>> From: William Aley >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:12 PM >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) >>> >>> Unfortunately NAPPRA is now the rule of the import system. There are USDA staff busy placing taxa on the NAPPRA in conjunction with university scientists to compile the background documents. The problem is USDA does not know uf a taxa is a host to a disease that could become established or if the taxa is a potential plant lest ie:weed. No one will have an understanding of the potential until a Pest Risk Analysis is completed. Once upon a time USDA was chided by the American horticultural Association because a popular plant was not allowed to be imported into the USA. It was viewed at the worlds fair to be the most adaptive , tough and disease resistant taxa and it would not only stabilise the soil it would also add nitrogen to the soul. So USDA allowed unregulated import of the plant to satisfy not only horticulturalist but soil conservationists. The result is a plant know as kudzu. The rest is history. So is unregulated import of unknown plants a good idea until someth i > n >> g >>> goes wrong? Then try to clean up the environment after? Who pays for the clean up of plants tossed from a private garden into the hedge row that eventually naturalise and begin invading the environment and other peoples gardens? >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon, 23 May 2016 05:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4c279f3f-8d08-883d-5609-ad53755c1d4a@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: What species takes the longest to flower from seed? Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 13:06:28 +0100 Hi, On 23/05/2016 01:05, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > So many environmental factors go into how fast a bulb goes from seed to > flower. Knowing how long is useful information though. Minimum and typical values. One can then estimate how likely one is to kill a plant per year and decide if things are worth attempting. I am still unhappy about a seed company that sold me seeds giving the impression they would flower in a year, when it turned out seven years of good conditions is typical. Beware of the phrase "a little patience is required" in seed catalogues. Translates as "Methuselah grew this". The interplay of how long it takes to flower and growing conditions is interesting - the first points to how ideal the second are. From the gardeners point of view - because some species don't flower until stressed. -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From xerantheum@gmail.com Mon, 23 May 2016 09:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: What species takes the longest to flower from seed? Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 09:01:10 -0700 I can definitely say that it doesn't take 21 years for this species to bloom. The first one from a batch of seeds bloomed after 6 years. I have a feeling that it could probably bloom faster if it got really nice and warm, long summers rather than a Berkeley summer. Nhu On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > So many environmental factors go into how fast a bulb goes from seed to > flower. A lot of talented growers on this list speed up the process. We > visited Harry Hay in the UK in 2004 and we saw Pseudogaltonia clavata in > flower. Harry said it weighed over a kilo and took 21 years from seed to > flower. He obviously had a lot of patience. Nhu is growing this same > species. Perhaps it will flower sooner for him. > > Mary Sue From pelarg@aol.com Mon, 23 May 2016 11:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <154deaec962-5cb7-9dce@webprd-a87.mail.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: possible change - now Ledebouria Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 13:34:37 -0400 Hi Robin, It would certainly be hardy in Zone 9. Here we are the edge of zone 7/8 in central/northern westchester county in NY. We got a low of -3F this winter according to accuweather. The ledebourias had a light mulch on them but not nearly as much as I would use for real zone pushing like Gerbera jamesonii and Erythrina zeyheri both of which came thru fine but with about a foot of wood chip mulch or more on top of them. Same works for cannas here too. My most conservative guess is that Ledebouria cooperi should be hardy at least thru zone 7 proper and greater and maybe into zone 6, maybe more so with protection. It is easy to overwinter indoors in pots too, just keep cool and dry. The ones outside are flowering right now. Ernie -----Original Message----- From: Hansen Nursery To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Sun, May 22, 2016 12:26 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change - now Ledebouria Ernie, You mention Ledebouria cooperi as being winter-hardy? What zone are you in and how cold do your winters get? I'd like to try putting it in the rock garden but haven't heard too many people talk about it. Robin in southwestern Oregon on the coast, Zone 9, more or less Hansen Nursery robin@hansennursery.com -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pelarg@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 9:14 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) Ernie DeMarie In NY where Allium moly and camassias are in bloom, including a rare pink form I got years ago from a former nursery woman out in Oregon, and the summer growing bulbs in pots are going outside while the winter growers in the garage are finished or finishing up for the most part. Winter hardy gladioli galtonia, Ledebouria cooperi, Crocosmias, Dieramas, Galtonia, Crinum bulbispermum (and Super Ellen and x powelli), and Agapanthus are all up among others and I still wait for Eucomis, which is always the last thing to emerge. Also seeing growth just starting on well protected (wood chip mulch) Erythrina zeyheri. From robin@hansennursery.com Mon, 23 May 2016 11:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <000f01d1b51e$15416a70$3fc43f50$@hansennursery.com> From: "Hansen Nursery" Subject: possible change - now Ledebouria Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 11:08:17 -0700 Thanks so much for all your replies on Ledebouria! I will be planting some in the rock garden is is super-well drained. We've had 62+ inches this year, or what can be or would be considered normal... Robin Hansen Nursery robin@hansennursery.com -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pelarg@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 10:35 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change - now Ledebouria Hi Robin, It would certainly be hardy in Zone 9. Here we are the edge of zone 7/8 in central/northern westchester county in NY. We got a low of -3F this winter according to accuweather. The ledebourias had a light mulch on them but not nearly as much as I would use for real zone pushing like Gerbera jamesonii and Erythrina zeyheri both of which came thru fine but with about a foot of wood chip mulch or more on top of them. Same works for cannas here too. My most conservative guess is that Ledebouria cooperi should be hardy at least thru zone 7 proper and greater and maybe into zone 6, maybe more so with protection. It is easy to overwinter indoors in pots too, just keep cool and dry. The ones outside are flowering right now. Ernie -----Original Message----- From: Hansen Nursery To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Sun, May 22, 2016 12:26 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change - now Ledebouria Ernie, You mention Ledebouria cooperi as being winter-hardy? What zone are you in and how cold do your winters get? I'd like to try putting it in the rock garden but haven't heard too many people talk about it. Robin in southwestern Oregon on the coast, Zone 9, more or less Hansen Nursery robin@hansennursery.com -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pelarg@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 9:14 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) Ernie DeMarie In NY where Allium moly and camassias are in bloom, including a rare pink form I got years ago from a former nursery woman out in Oregon, and the summer growing bulbs in pots are going outside while the winter growers in the garage are finished or finishing up for the most part. Winter hardy gladioli galtonia, Ledebouria cooperi, Crocosmias, Dieramas, Galtonia, Crinum bulbispermum (and Super Ellen and x powelli), and Agapanthus are all up among others and I still wait for Eucomis, which is always the last thing to emerge. Also seeing growth just starting on well protected (wood chip mulch) Erythrina zeyheri. ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7597 / Virus Database: 4568/12283 - Release Date: 05/23/16 From ds429@frontier.com Mon, 23 May 2016 12:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <724164.5022.bm@smtp213.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 399 Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 14:57:05 -0400 Dear All,       The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at mailto: ds429@frontier.com   Include "BX 399" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $2 - $5/share of bulbs or seeds)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added.     Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website:         If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 55 W. High St. Salem, WV 26426 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. ALL ORDERS TO THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS ONLY. Dell's email address ds429@frontier.com Do not hit the reply tab or you will reply to all PBS members by mistake.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Rimmer de Vries 1. Massonia pustulata bulbs from BX 337 donor's mother plant from Jim Digger had purple leaves, these don’t  2. Massonia echinata bulbs from NARGS 13 #1684, bright green leaves smallish white flowers with yellow pollen. 3. Massonia hyb. came as depressa from NARGS 13 #1683 but not, big wide leaves, 4. Small bulbs of Albuca humilis ex JCA 15856 Drakensburg Mtns. from NARGS 2012-#83 5. Habranthus hyb ‘Jumbo Purple’ offsets 6. Haemanthus pauculifolius seedlings 2 yrs old 7. Seeds of Clivia ‘Sahin Twins’ - deep red with big red berries, “twins" means in ideal situations it blooms 2x a year. From Monica Swartz: 8. Small bulbs of Drimia haworthioides: ex Huntington Botanic Gardens Collection #49314, this fun and easy plant has bulb scales that look like the leaves of a Haworthia when planted at the surface, then it grows fur-edged leaves in winter (they should be dying back now). One of my most requested plants. Doesn't mind year-round water with good drainage. Seems quite freeze hardy in my 8b climate but I have yet to try it in the ground. If one of the loose scales falls off, it will make bulblets on its edges if lightly buried. 9. Small bulbs of Cyrtanthus mackenii ex Buried Treasures, yellow or orange flowered From Dell Sherk: 10. Small bulbs of Hippeastrum vittatum Thank you, Rimmer and Monica !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX Sent from Mail for Windows 10 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From teck11@embarqmail.com Mon, 23 May 2016 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <007001d1b545$e59c4650$b0d4d2f0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: What species takes the longest to flower from seed? Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 18:53:17 -0400 Travis, Though not bulbs, it's pertinent to the question that the "Century Plant" agave and many bamboos take 50 years to bloom and then die. How much fun is that? Tim Eck > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Travis O > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 3:32 PM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] What species takes the longest to flower from seed? > > For the sake of conversation... > > I once read of some SA amaryllid (Boophone, maybe?) that took around 15 > years to flower from seed. I wonder, what is the longest time it has taken a > bulb to flower from seed? > > I'd also be curious what the evolutionary advantages of such a long wait > before flowering are? I understand how for an annual plant, reproduction is > of higher priority than survival. With the long lived bulbs (and trees and > shrubs, I guess) mere survival trumps reproduction. What are the driving > factors, environment? Availability/type of pollinators? > > Travis Owen > Rogue River, OR > > www.amateuranthecologist.com > www.oldsolbees.com > www.pacificbulbsociety.org > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From teck11@embarqmail.com Mon, 23 May 2016 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <007701d1b547$d660f940$8322ebc0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 19:07:10 -0400 In my area, invasiveness is largely defined by whether deer will eat them. When I took a walk through my back forty, bemoaning the numerous invasives that are degrading the habitat, the common denominator is unpalatability for deer. In Pennsylvania, a forest will generally not regenerate with native trees when lumbered due to deer damage. Only invasives will regrow. When you look at a nursery/bulb catalog, just look at all the imports touted as 'deer-proof'. Tim Eck When a philosopher says something that is true, then it is trivial. When he says something that is not trivial, then it is false. Gauss > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tim Harvey > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 2:36 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu > > NAPPRA doesn't have a credibility profile. What should we do? > > PRA doesn't "establish" anything. As has been discussed many times on this > forum, the invasiveness question is highly subjective and dependent on > locale. Furthermore, the USDA lacks the fundamental knowledge to make > any informed decision and ignores advice given even when requested. Their > funding would be better spent subsidizing informed pest control at a local > level. > > T > > > On May 22, 2016, at 11:01 PM, William Aley wrote: > > > > The issue from the developer of NAPPRA is that few plants have a 'Pest > > profile' that a PRA establishes. Best also from the early days of > > unbridled plant imports > > http://maxshores.com/the-amazing-story-of-kudzu/ > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On May 22, 2016, at 21:33, aaron floden > wrote: > >> > >> Kudzu was not wanted by gardeners and its current pest status is due to > the US government using it as a soil stabilizer. They spent millions planting it > directly or paying farmers to plant it by the acre. The Smithsonian had great > article that discussed most of the history with a few things left out. This is not > one that can be blamed on gardeners. The same can be said for Morus alba, > Microstegium which came in through Oak Ridge as packing material, and > probably numerous others. A few I see regularly are various Eleagnus > promoted as a mining recovery plant, Lespedeza was planted in these sites > as well. > >> So now the question is how much will an assessment cost for an > unintroduced to cultivation species so that it is NAPPRA allowable? > >> > >> Aaron > >> > >> From: William Aley > >> To: Pacific Bulb Society > >> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:12 PM > >> Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) > >> > >> Unfortunately NAPPRA is now the rule of the import system. There are > >> USDA staff busy placing taxa on the NAPPRA in conjunction with > >> university scientists to compile the background documents. The > >> problem is USDA does not know uf a taxa is a host to a disease that > >> could become established or if the taxa is a potential plant lest > >> ie:weed. No one will have an understanding of the potential until a > >> Pest Risk Analysis is completed. Once upon a time USDA was chided by > >> the American horticultural Association because a popular plant was > >> not allowed to be imported into the USA. It was viewed at the worlds > >> fair to be the most adaptive , tough and disease resistant taxa and > >> it would not only stabilise the soil it would also add nitrogen to > >> the soul. So USDA allowed unregulated import of the plant to satisfy > >> not only horticulturalist but soil conservationists. The result is a > >> plant know as kudzu. The rest is history. So is unregulated import of > >> unknown plants a good idea until somethi > n > > g > >> goes wrong? Then try to clean up the environment after? Who pays for > the clean up of plants tossed from a private garden into the hedge row that > eventually naturalise and begin invading the environment and other peoples > gardens? > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From robin@no1bird.net Mon, 23 May 2016 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <767F16AB-2DD9-4FE2-8B83-18E495AB766E@no1bird.net> From: Robin Carrier Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 21:41:09 -0400 SPARE US > On May 23, 2016, at 7:07 PM, Tim Eck wrote: > > In my area, invasiveness is largely defined by whether deer will eat them. > When I took a walk through my back forty, bemoaning the numerous invasives > that are degrading the habitat, the common denominator is unpalatability for > deer. In Pennsylvania, a forest will generally not regenerate with native > trees when lumbered due to deer damage. Only invasives will regrow. When > you look at a nursery/bulb catalog, just look at all the imports touted as > 'deer-proof'. > > Tim Eck > When a philosopher says something that is true, then it is trivial. When he > says something that is not trivial, then it is false. > Gauss > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tim Harvey >> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 2:36 AM >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu >> >> NAPPRA doesn't have a credibility profile. What should we do? >> >> PRA doesn't "establish" anything. As has been discussed many times on this >> forum, the invasiveness question is highly subjective and dependent on >> locale. Furthermore, the USDA lacks the fundamental knowledge to make >> any informed decision and ignores advice given even when requested. Their >> funding would be better spent subsidizing informed pest control at a local >> level. >> >> T >> >>> On May 22, 2016, at 11:01 PM, William Aley wrote: >>> >>> The issue from the developer of NAPPRA is that few plants have a 'Pest >>> profile' that a PRA establishes. Best also from the early days of >>> unbridled plant imports >>> http://maxshores.com/the-amazing-story-of-kudzu/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On May 22, 2016, at 21:33, aaron floden >> wrote: >>>> >>>> Kudzu was not wanted by gardeners and its current pest status is due to >> the US government using it as a soil stabilizer. They spent millions > planting it >> directly or paying farmers to plant it by the acre. The Smithsonian had > great >> article that discussed most of the history with a few things left out. > This is not >> one that can be blamed on gardeners. The same can be said for Morus alba, >> Microstegium which came in through Oak Ridge as packing material, and >> probably numerous others. A few I see regularly are various Eleagnus >> promoted as a mining recovery plant, Lespedeza was planted in these sites >> as well. >>>> So now the question is how much will an assessment cost for an >> unintroduced to cultivation species so that it is NAPPRA allowable? >>>> >>>> Aaron >>>> >>>> From: William Aley >>>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:12 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) >>>> >>>> Unfortunately NAPPRA is now the rule of the import system. There are >>>> USDA staff busy placing taxa on the NAPPRA in conjunction with >>>> university scientists to compile the background documents. The >>>> problem is USDA does not know uf a taxa is a host to a disease that >>>> could become established or if the taxa is a potential plant lest >>>> ie:weed. No one will have an understanding of the potential until a >>>> Pest Risk Analysis is completed. Once upon a time USDA was chided by >>>> the American horticultural Association because a popular plant was >>>> not allowed to be imported into the USA. It was viewed at the worlds >>>> fair to be the most adaptive , tough and disease resistant taxa and >>>> it would not only stabilise the soil it would also add nitrogen to >>>> the soul. So USDA allowed unregulated import of the plant to satisfy >>>> not only horticulturalist but soil conservationists. The result is a >>>> plant know as kudzu. The rest is history. So is unregulated import of >>>> unknown plants a good idea until somethi >> n >>> g >>>> goes wrong? Then try to clean up the environment after? Who pays for >> the clean up of plants tossed from a private garden into the hedge row > that >> eventually naturalise and begin invading the environment and other peoples >> gardens? >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From gordonhogenson@yahoo.com Mon, 23 May 2016 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1819009897.1543714.1464054892492.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Gordon Hogenson Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 01:54:52 +0000 (UTC) I would urge folks to pay attention to the USDA comment periods on proposed regulation changes and be sure that the USDA understands the impact of the proposed restrictions on regular gardeners and hobbyists, who are also playing a significant role in plant conservation.  Most plants are perfectly safe to import and any move to a whitelist where only approved plants are allowed is going to mean that conservation of rare and difficult plants, the very plants that collector gardeners are most keen to locate and grow, will become much more difficult. Kudzu and similarly destructive plants are really a small minority of plant taxa. Using them as examples is focusing on worst-case scenarios to a point where it is misleading and dishonest when applied to the vast majority of plants.  Many plants labeled invasive really are just adding to the biodiversity rather than detracting from it. The current system of focusing on taxa that are known to be truly destructive is the least restrictive method and the least likely to interfere with the trade of plants which is absolutely critical in preserving rare types. Gordon, PNW, zone 7, where L. dauricum is starting the lily season, and many native plants flourish harmoniously alongside garden plants from other locales. From: Tim Eck To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu In my area, invasiveness is largely defined by whether deer will eat them. When I took a walk through my back forty, bemoaning the numerous invasives that are degrading the habitat, the common denominator is unpalatability for deer.  In Pennsylvania, a forest will generally not regenerate with native trees when lumbered due to deer damage.  Only invasives will regrow.  When you look at a nursery/bulb catalog, just look at all the imports touted as 'deer-proof'. Tim Eck When a philosopher says something that is true, then it is trivial. When he says something that is not trivial, then it is false. Gauss > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tim Harvey > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 2:36 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu > > NAPPRA doesn't have a credibility profile. What should we do? > > PRA doesn't "establish" anything. As has been discussed many times on this > forum, the invasiveness question is highly subjective and dependent on > locale. Furthermore, the USDA lacks the fundamental knowledge to make > any informed decision and ignores advice given even when requested. Their > funding would be better spent subsidizing informed pest control at a local > level. > >  T > > > On May 22, 2016, at 11:01 PM, William Aley wrote: > > > > The issue from the developer of NAPPRA is that few plants have a 'Pest > > profile' that a PRA establishes.  Best also from the early days of > > unbridled plant imports > > http://maxshores.com/the-amazing-story-of-kudzu/ > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On May 22, 2016, at 21:33, aaron floden > wrote: > >> > >> Kudzu was not wanted by gardeners and its current pest status is due to > the US government using it as a soil stabilizer. They spent millions planting it > directly or paying farmers to plant it by the acre. The Smithsonian had great > article that discussed most of the history with a few things left out. This is not > one that can be blamed on gardeners. The same can be said for Morus alba, > Microstegium which came in through Oak Ridge as packing material, and > probably numerous others. A few I see regularly are various Eleagnus > promoted as a mining recovery plant, Lespedeza was planted in these sites > as well. > >> So now the question is how much will an assessment cost for an > unintroduced to cultivation species so that it is NAPPRA allowable? > >> > >> Aaron > >> > >>    From: William Aley > >> To: Pacific Bulb Society > >> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 4:12 PM > >> Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) > >> > >> Unfortunately NAPPRA is now the rule of the import system. There are > >> USDA staff busy placing taxa on the NAPPRA in conjunction with > >> university scientists to compile the background documents. The > >> problem is USDA does not know uf a taxa is a host to a disease that > >> could become established or if the taxa is a potential plant lest > >> ie:weed. No one will have an understanding of the potential until a > >> Pest Risk Analysis is completed. Once upon a time USDA was chided by > >> the American horticultural Association because a popular plant was > >> not allowed to be imported into the USA. It was viewed at the worlds > >> fair to be the most adaptive , tough and disease resistant taxa and > >> it would not only stabilise the soil it would also add nitrogen to > >> the soul. So USDA  allowed unregulated import of the plant to satisfy > >> not only horticulturalist but soil conservationists.  The result is a > >> plant know as kudzu. The rest is history. So is unregulated import of > >> unknown plants a good idea until somethi >  n > > g > >> goes wrong? Then try to clean up the environment after?  Who pays for > the clean up of plants tossed from a private garden into the hedge row that > eventually naturalise and begin invading the environment and other peoples > gardens? > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@frontier.com Tue, 24 May 2016 12:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1769334972.2057827.1464115900872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: ds429 Subject: BX 399 CLOSED Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 18:51:40 +0000 (UTC) Packages should go out in a week or so. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From carlobal@gmail.com Tue, 24 May 2016 13:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <7BA792B8-9055-411F-9CCE-6FCAB9524934@gmail.com> From: "Carlo A. Balistrieri" Subject: possible change - now Ledebouria Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 15:25:24 -0400 And I’ll look for some to put out here in NJ (where I’ve had Helicodiceros successfully winter over for some years now)—I’ll report back with any findings... 2 6 2 . 4 9 0 . 6 1 6 3 New York NJ Philadelphia www.carlobalistrieri.com > On May 22, 2016, at 3:10 PM, Mark Mazer wrote: > > L. cooperi has been hardy here on the NE coastal plain of North Carolina > for the past decade. Min temp, about 13F; max frost depth, couple of > inches. Never tried it in the former NW CT garden, zone 5ish. > > Mark Mazer > Hertford, NC > > On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Hansen Nursery > wrote: > >> Ernie, >> >> You mention Ledebouria cooperi as being winter-hardy? What zone are you in >> and how cold do your winters get? I'd like to try putting it in the rock >> garden but haven't heard too many people talk about it. >> >> Robin in southwestern Oregon on the coast, Zone 9, more or less >> Hansen Nursery >> robin@hansennursery.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of >> pelarg@aol.com >> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 9:14 AM >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) >> >> >> Ernie DeMarie >> In NY where Allium moly and camassias are in bloom, including a rare pink >> form I got years ago from a former nursery woman out in Oregon, and the >> summer growing bulbs in pots are going outside while the winter growers in >> the garage are finished or finishing up for the most part. Winter hardy >> gladioli galtonia, Ledebouria cooperi, Crocosmias, Dieramas, Galtonia, >> Crinum bulbispermum (and Super Ellen and x powelli), and Agapanthus are all >> up among others and I still wait for Eucomis, which is always the last >> thing >> to emerge. Also seeing growth just starting on well protected (wood chip >> mulch) Erythrina zeyheri. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From othonna@gmail.com Tue, 24 May 2016 14:17:02 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 160, Issue 12 Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 13:58:41 -0700 Many people did in fact comment during the review period when these NAPPRA rules were proposed. Those comments, part of the public record, became unaccountably difficult to relocate because access and storage were changed. As I recall there were 50 or more comments from a very wide range of interested parties, each with a distinct and thoughtful view. It was enlightening to read what they had to say. Except for one or two comments from advocates against "invasives", the arguments were firmly against doing away with the "innocent until proven guilty" system. It would be of interest to know by what rationale-- assuming public input has any meaningful impact at all-- the USDA approved of the change to a system of "guilty until proven innocent". Dylan Hannon Message: 4 Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 01:54:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Gordon Hogenson To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Message-ID: <1819009897.1543714.1464054892492.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I would urge folks to pay attention to the USDA comment periods on proposed regulation changes and be sure that the USDA understands the impact of the proposed?restrictions on regular gardeners and hobbyists, who are also playing a significant role in plant conservation.? Most plants are perfectly safe to import and any move to a whitelist where only approved plants are allowed?is going to mean that conservation of rare and difficult plants, the very plants that collector gardeners are most keen to locate and grow, will become much more difficult. Kudzu?and?similarly destructive plants are?really a?small minority of plant taxa. Using them as examples is focusing on worst-case scenarios to a point where it is misleading and dishonest when applied to the vast majority of plants.? Many plants labeled invasive?really are just adding to the biodiversity rather than detracting from it.?The current system of focusing on taxa that are known to be truly destructive is the least restrictive method and the least likely to interfere with the trade of plants which is absolutely critical in preserving rare types. Gordon, PNW, zone 7, where L. dauricum is starting the lily season, and many native plants flourish harmoniously?alongside garden plants from other locales. *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an useful plant to its culture…" --**Thomas Jefferson* _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue, 24 May 2016 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 160, Issue 12 Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 16:12:28 -0700 On May 24, 2016, at 1:58 PM, Hannon wrote: > Except for one or two comments > from advocates against "invasives", the arguments were firmly against doing > away with the "innocent until proven guilty" system. > > It would be of interest to know by what rationale-- assuming public input > has any meaningful impact at all-- the USDA approved of the change to a > system of "guilty until proven innocent". > I agree. I generally am supportive of the U.S. method of having agencies assigned responsibilities over some aspect of our government, with Congress granting them the ability to set rules and regulations to carry out those responsibilities. But the one great weakness I see with this system—and it is the one major area where I dislike what agencies often do with the power they’re granted—is the ability to make rules willy-nilly, if they so choose, in whatever way the people in charge at the time feel like making them without having any accountability or answerability to the voters the way Congress does if they make rules the voters don’t like or want. It seems that not only does the majority not win, they’re often irrelevant. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue, 24 May 2016 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <899672AE-E683-4966-8DB7-2D5BF8A8E569@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 16:13:00 -0700 On May 24, 2016, at 1:58 PM, Hannon > wrote: > Except for one or two comments > from advocates against "invasives", the arguments were firmly against doing > away with the "innocent until proven guilty" system. > > It would be of interest to know by what rationale-- assuming public input > has any meaningful impact at all-- the USDA approved of the change to a > system of "guilty until proven innocent". > I agree. I generally am supportive of the U.S. method of having agencies assigned responsibilities over some aspect of our government, with Congress granting them the ability to set rules and regulations to carry out those responsibilities. But the one great weakness I see with this system—and it is the one major area where I dislike what agencies often do with the power they’re granted—is the ability to make rules willy-nilly, if they so choose, in whatever way the people in charge at the time feel like making them without having any accountability or answerability to the voters the way Congress does if they make rules the voters don’t like or want. It seems that not only does the majority not win, they’re often irrelevant. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Tue, 24 May 2016 21:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "penstemon" Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 21:26:52 -0600 >I generally am supportive of the U.S. method of having agencies assigned >responsibilities over some aspect of our government, with Congress granting >them the ability to set rules and regulations to carry >out those >responsibilities. But the one great weakness I see with this system—and it >is the one major area where I dislike what agencies often do with the power >they’re granted—is the ability to make >rules willy-nilly, if they so >choose, in whatever way the people in charge at the time feel like making >them without having any accountability or answerability to the voters the >way Congress does if they make rules the voters don’t like or want. >It seems that not only does the majority not win, they’re often irrelevant. Well, APHIS is charged with implementing the Plant Protection Act (an act of Congress) which says, among other things, "(1) Early plant pest detection and surveillance The term 'early plant pest detection and surveillance' means the full range of activities undertaken to find newly introduced plant pests, whether the plant pests are new to the United States or new to certain areas of the United States, before- (A) the plant pests become established; or (B) the plant pest infestations become too large and costly to eradicate or control." Note, "the full range of activities". The Agricultural Act of 2014 says, with regard to seeds, APPLICABILITY- Nothing in this subsection precludes or limits the authority of the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to the importation or movement of plants, plant products, or seeds under-- `(A) the Plant Protection Act (7 U.S.C.7701 et seq.); and `(B) the Federal Seed Act (7 U.S.C. 1551 et seq.).'. Again, Congress. "Nothing ....limits the authority of Secretary of Agriculture..." Bob Nold Denver, Colorado, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Tue, 24 May 2016 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1993797961.38315.1464151322061.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 04:42:02 +0000 (UTC) I wonder that if there are no border inspection control between every states, the federal regulation should consider about the threatening invasive  species in the scale of all the biome from arctic mountains and tropical islands of U.S. . _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue, 24 May 2016 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 21:53:53 -0700 On May 24, 2016, at 8:26 PM, penstemon wrote: > >> I generally am supportive of the U.S. method of having agencies assigned responsibilities over some aspect of our government, with Congress granting them the ability to set rules and regulations to carry >out those responsibilities. But the one great weakness I see with this system—and it is the one major area where I dislike what agencies often do with the power they’re granted—is the ability to make >rules willy-nilly, if they so choose, in whatever way the people in charge at the time feel like making them without having any accountability or answerability to the voters the way Congress does if they make rules the voters don’t like or want. > >> It seems that not only does the majority not win, they’re often irrelevant. > > Well, APHIS is charged with implementing the Plant Protection Act (an act of Congress) which says, among other things, > "(1) Early plant pest detection and surveillance > The term 'early plant pest detection and surveillance' means the full range of activities undertaken to find newly introduced plant pests, whether the plant pests are new to the United States or new to certain areas of the United States, before- > (A) the plant pests become established; or > (B) the plant pest infestations become too large and costly to eradicate or control." > > Note, "the full range of activities". > > The Agricultural Act of 2014 says, with regard to seeds, > APPLICABILITY- Nothing in this subsection precludes or limits the authority of the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to the importation or movement of plants, plant products, or seeds under-- > `(A) the Plant Protection Act (7 U.S.C.7701 et seq.); and > `(B) the Federal Seed Act (7 U.S.C. 1551 et seq.).'. > > Again, Congress. "Nothing ....limits the authority of Secretary of Agriculture..." > > Bob Nold > Denver, Colorado, USA > This was my point. However, there are other sections of these laws. I remember when they were considering changing the requirements for seed importation and the first proposed rules that were entered in the Federal Register engendered a huge number of comments complaining about certain aspects of it. They then published an amended version which was much better than the original. However, I also distinctly remember that the first published rules explained that whatever they decided on, they were required to try to get voluntary compliance from all the stakeholders including hobbyists so that they wouldn’t have to spend too many of their already limited resources trying to stop smuggling, that it was better to get everyone’s buy-in on whatever rules were finally published because then people would police themselves. So I’m pretty sure that elsewhere in all those Congressional laws are sections that are meant to guide how the USDA goes about using the unlimited authority they were given with respect to plant or seed importation. However, there is no policeman other than Congress to stop them on those occasions when they choose to ignore these other provisions. On the other hand, I’m not as worried as I would have been since Mr. Aley pointed out here a few months ago that other, new, provision that he managed to get into the regulations (the Controlled Import Permit or “CIP” 7 CFR 315.6) that allows for a special method of importing almost anything (especially new species) without even needing a phytosanitary certificate from the country of origin (which can be almost impossible to acquire in some countries). (Thanks again Mr. Aley!) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Tue, 24 May 2016 23:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <16DAD61BC2EB4DA5A05931389537AAF2@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 23:41:54 -0600 >So I’m pretty sure that elsewhere in all those Congressional laws are sections that are meant to guide how the USDA goes about using the unlimited authority they were given with respect to plant or seed importation. I don’t think so. “Unlimited authority” means just that. >However, there is no policeman other than Congress to stop them on those occasions when they choose to ignore these other provisions. It was APHIS who agreed to modify their restrictions on seed imports. Members of Congress probably could not care less about such things. Well, okay, not “probably”; “absolutely definitely” would be more realistic. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From teck11@embarqmail.com Wed, 25 May 2016 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <001201d1b691$325e2980$971a7c80$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 10:24:48 -0400 Many organisms are very specifically restricted in the USA against transport across county lines or even from a specific property. The border control is almost completely non-existent though. Tim Eck > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Fierycloud > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 12:42 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu > > I wonder that if there are no border inspection control between every > states, the federal regulation should consider about the threatening > invasive species in the scale of all the biome from arctic mountains and > tropical islands of U.S. . > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Wed, 25 May 2016 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: The Silent Seed Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 10:31:13 -0400 Tim, Such as? May just be a slow morning, but nothing comes to mind. On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Tim Eck wrote: > Many organisms are very specifically restricted in the USA against > transport across county lines or even from a specific property. The border > control is almost completely non-existent though. > > Tim Eck > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Fierycloud > > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 12:42 AM > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now > Kudzu > > > > I wonder that if there are no border inspection control between every > > states, the federal regulation should consider about the threatening > > invasive species in the scale of all the biome from arctic mountains and > > tropical islands of U.S. . > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- The Silent Seed Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. thesilentseed.com From petersirises@gmail.com Wed, 25 May 2016 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 16:00:51 +0100 I would expect various Berberis species qualify ..... Peter (UK) On 25 May 2016 at 15:31, The Silent Seed wrote: > Tim, > Such as? May just be a slow morning, but nothing comes to mind. > > On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Tim Eck wrote: > > > Many organisms are very specifically restricted in the USA against > > transport across county lines or even from a specific property. The > border > > control is almost completely non-existent though. > > > > Tim Eck > > > > I wonder that if there are no border inspection control between every > > > states, the federal regulation should consider about the threatening > > > invasive species in the scale of all the biome from arctic mountains > and > > > tropical islands of U.S. . > From teck11@embarqmail.com Wed, 25 May 2016 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <001c01d1b699$cdefa060$69cee120$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 11:26:25 -0400 Firewood quarantines to prevent emerald ash borer and others, nursery stock to prevent Phytophthora ramorum, stone fruit to prevent plum pox, etc. Also, whenever we inoculate chestnuts with the blight, we need permits to transport the culture and are required to burn the trees on site when finished, even if the culture was from natural infections. If the blight were not ubiquitous in eastern USA, this might make more sense. The only people who really pay attention to the less rational restrictions are those associated with organizations receiving government funds. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of The Silent > Seed > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 10:31 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu > > Tim, > Such as? May just be a slow morning, but nothing comes to mind. > > On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Tim Eck > wrote: > > > Many organisms are very specifically restricted in the USA against > > transport across county lines or even from a specific property. The > > border control is almost completely non-existent though. > > > > Tim Eck > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > > > Fierycloud > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 12:42 AM > > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now > > Kudzu > > > > > > I wonder that if there are no border inspection control between > > > every states, the federal regulation should consider about the > > > threatening invasive species in the scale of all the biome from > > > arctic mountains and tropical islands of U.S. . > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > -- > The Silent Seed > Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. > thesilentseed.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Wed, 25 May 2016 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: The Silent Seed Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 11:41:57 -0400 Very interesting, Tim, thanks! On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Tim Eck wrote: > Firewood quarantines to prevent emerald ash borer and others, nursery stock > to prevent Phytophthora ramorum, stone fruit to prevent plum pox, etc. > Also, whenever we inoculate chestnuts with the blight, we need permits to > transport the culture and are required to burn the trees on site when > finished, even if the culture was from natural infections. If the blight > were not ubiquitous in eastern USA, this might make more sense. > The only people who really pay attention to the less rational restrictions > are those associated with organizations receiving government funds. > Tim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of The Silent > > Seed > > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 10:31 AM > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now > Kudzu > > > > Tim, > > Such as? May just be a slow morning, but nothing comes to mind. > > > > On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Tim Eck > > wrote: > > > > > Many organisms are very specifically restricted in the USA against > > > transport across county lines or even from a specific property. The > > > border control is almost completely non-existent though. > > > > > > Tim Eck > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > > > > Fierycloud > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 12:42 AM > > > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > > > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now > > > Kudzu > > > > > > > > I wonder that if there are no border inspection control between > > > > every states, the federal regulation should consider about the > > > > threatening invasive species in the scale of all the biome from > > > > arctic mountains and tropical islands of U.S. . > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > pbs mailing list > > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The Silent Seed > > Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. > > thesilentseed.com > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- The Silent Seed Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. thesilentseed.com From teck11@embarqmail.com Wed, 25 May 2016 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <001d01d1b69c$5578f980$006aec80$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 11:44:31 -0400 Peter, At one time they certainly would, but I think modern wheat has the oxalate oxidase wheat rust resistance gene, whether from regular breeding or cis-genics. It's been a long time since high school biology, but I think that if you stop the wheat host from propagating spores it stops it at the barberry and pine too. I believe we have some USDA people on the list who can correct me. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Peter Taggart > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:01 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu > > I would expect various Berberis species qualify ..... > Peter (UK) > > On 25 May 2016 at 15:31, The Silent Seed wrote: > > > Tim, > > Such as? May just be a slow morning, but nothing comes to mind. > > > > On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Tim Eck > wrote: > > > > > Many organisms are very specifically restricted in the USA against > > > transport across county lines or even from a specific property. The > > border > > > control is almost completely non-existent though. > > > > > > Tim Eck > > > > > > I wonder that if there are no border inspection control between > > > > every states, the federal regulation should consider about the > > > > threatening invasive species in the scale of all the biome from > > > > arctic mountains > > and > > > > tropical islands of U.S. . > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From markemazer@gmail.com Wed, 25 May 2016 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Mark Mazer Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 12:02:05 -0400 Lists laws and regulations relating to invasive species for each state, as well as links to other sites with state legal information. https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/laws/statelaws.shtml On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Tim Eck wrote: > Peter, > At one time they certainly would, but I think modern wheat has the oxalate > oxidase wheat rust resistance gene, whether from regular breeding or > cis-genics. It's been a long time since high school biology, but I think > that if you stop the wheat host from propagating spores it stops it at the > barberry and pine too. I believe we have some USDA people on the list who > can correct me. > Tim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Peter > Taggart > > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:01 AM > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now > Kudzu > > > > I would expect various Berberis species qualify ..... > > Peter (UK) > > > > On 25 May 2016 at 15:31, The Silent Seed wrote: > > > > > Tim, > > > Such as? May just be a slow morning, but nothing comes to mind. > > > > > > On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Tim Eck > > wrote: > > > > > > > Many organisms are very specifically restricted in the USA against > > > > transport across county lines or even from a specific property. The > > > border > > > > control is almost completely non-existent though. > > > > > > > > Tim Eck > > > > > > > > I wonder that if there are no border inspection control between > > > > > every states, the federal regulation should consider about the > > > > > threatening invasive species in the scale of all the biome from > > > > > arctic mountains > > > and > > > > > tropical islands of U.S. . > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 25 May 2016 10:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <0ce801d1b6a7$d4314f10$7c93ed30$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 10:06:48 -0700 Hi, gang. We've gone over the US NAPPRA rules on this list a couple of times in the last few years, but we keep adding new people to the list, so let me recap how I think the system works. Bill and others, please jump in and correct me if I get anything wrong. The way the NAPPRA process works is that APHIS occasionally proposes a list of potentially invasive species that might be banned from importation unless they pass a test of invasiveness. Those plants seem to have been nominated by advocates or to have shown up on a weed list in Australia or something like that. Reading between the lines from talking with some APHIS folks, I don't think they necessarily love the NAPPRA approach, but they felt they were required to implement it under the law. There is intense lobbying in favor of even more radical action from a number of major conservation organizations in the US, ranging from the Nature Conservancy to the California Native Plant Society. They are very aggressive, they use apocalyptic language about threats from non-native plants, and they know how to lobby in Washington. Considering all the political pressures, APHIS has so far been surprisingly open to feedback from normal folks like us. But you need to read their requests for comment, and send information when they ask for it. Expressing opinions is useful, but the most important thing to do is give them evidence. Our experiences with non-native plants, and our knowledge of their distribution in the US, are relevant information to them. There is a comment period in which we can respond to a proposed listing with information, which can include things like: --That plant is already established in the US, so there's no point in banning it. --That plant has been imported for years and hasn't proven to be invasive. --We grow that plant and it does not spread. --There is no scientific basis for that weed list in Australia (you'd be amazed at how haphazard some of the online lists are). --And so on... In the first round of proposed NAPPRA list additions, several commonly grown bulbs were tentatively listed, including Alstroemeria aurea and Gladiolus undulatus. We documented that they had been imported to the US for many years, and were even being sold by botanical gardens. We also gathered comments on the plants' invasive potential. We were successful in getting those species removed from the list. If the system continues to work they way it has in the past, we should be able to prevent the listing of the sorts of plants we bulb-growers grow. The things that are getting restricted now are generally aquatic plants or obscure tropical plants that have caused problems in the Pacific. Also, I haven't seen a new proposal for listings in more than a year, so I get the feeling that adding more species is not a super-high priority. Bill and others, did I get any of that wrong? I'd like to add one personal comment: yes some things like Kudzu have caused big problems. But those problems were created when the plants were either deliberately spread through government policy, or were brought in commercially in large quantities. For example, the government deliberately planted and promoted Kudzu. Star thistle supposedly came in with contaminated feed from Europe. Other plants have escaped from the nursery trade when heavily promoted. But I'm not aware of any documented cases in which a plant escaped from private collectors to become a problem weed. Zero. Think about it: We understand our plants pretty well, we know which ones spread around, and we're careful with them. We warn each other about plants that show aggressive tendencies. We're actually a pretty good source of info on which species need to be watched. We're not a significant problem, and I think we can be part of the solution. I think it makes sense for us to partner with the regulators, and for them to listen to us. So far, I think they are wiling to do so. It's too bad that places like Nature Conservancy and CNPS don't seem to have the same reasonable attitude. Mike San Jose, CA From tiede@pacbell.net Wed, 25 May 2016 11:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <024201d1b6b0$e58fc940$b0af5bc0$@net> From: "Bracey Tiede" Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 11:11:43 -0700 California has very strict rules about moving produce or plants or firewood within and between counties depending on what pest/disease is present. Quarantines are common here. Here are examples on the controls for my county, Santa Clara: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ag/pests/Pages/plants.aspx https://www.sccgov.org/sites/ag/pests/Pages/pests.aspx And then there is the Sudden Oak Death or Light Brown Apple Moth quarantines. And fruit flies, and leaf miners of all kinds, and the list goes on. This is mostly focused on impacts on agricultural crops but not all. Sudden Oak Death and LBAM affect lots of nursery crops and efforts are being made by the state to bring up to snuff all nurseries that raise materials to avoid spreading Phytophthora ramorum or SOD. Our local California Native Plant Society nursery is being completely rebuilt to comply and it's not inexpensive to do this. Few home gardeners know about these efforts but there is a lot of energy being spent to keep out plant pests and their associated diseases to protect California ag. Cheers, Bracey San Jose CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of The Silent Seed Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 7:31 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now Kudzu Tim, Such as? May just be a slow morning, but nothing comes to mind. On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Tim Eck wrote: > Many organisms are very specifically restricted in the USA against > transport across county lines or even from a specific property. The border > control is almost completely non-existent though. > > Tim Eck > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Fierycloud > > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 12:42 AM > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) now > Kudzu > > > > I wonder that if there are no border inspection control between every > > states, the federal regulation should consider about the threatening > > invasive species in the scale of all the biome from arctic mountains and > > tropical islands of U.S. . > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- The Silent Seed Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. thesilentseed.com From pelarg@aol.com Wed, 25 May 2016 13:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <154e98944b3-3c89-12503@webprd-a105.mail.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: NAPPRA lists, maybe not such a big deal Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 16:09:28 -0400 So I decided to do a search on NAPPRA lists and USDA and what I found was far less disturbing than what I thought it might be. If I am reading it correctly, first thing is that plants can be imported if they are not on the NAPPRA lists (or already existing prohibited lists) so I was mistaken in assuming it was a white list of what could be imported. There is no white list which is good. In fact there are two NAPPRA lists, one for plants deemed potential threats themselves (as invasives) and another list of plants that may be hosts to specific pathogens or insects. In almost all cases on the second list seed is allowed to be imported but not the plant. I also noted that the lists were short, as were the proposed lists they might add to the existing two lists. What I saw was not huge change from past practice, it merely seems that the USDA is creating a fairly short list of possible problematic plants and that each plant listed will be reviewed if petitioned and either maintained on its NAPPRA list or taken off. So long as the USDA is reasonable in its assumptions about which taxa may cause problems and the NAPPRA lists dont become too long I don't see the lists as particularly problematic for plant and seed importations. Its probably going to be more of a headache for the inspectors to determine which taxa are excluded when they come in. It could be hel pful for importers to be aware of what might be a problem so they can avoid bringing it in. I did not note much in the way of geophytes on the lists either. So I take back my statement of concern about this unless I am wrong in my interpretation of what I read just now. Ernie DeMarie In NY where we are getting pretty warm, going towards 90, but the plants are looking fine and reasonably cool nights and cooler weather next week will keep them in good shape. Carefully watching some alliums coming into flower, I have to wait to see if they are the expected A. flavum varieties grown from seed or just regular onion grass, they are pretty much indistinguishable until they bloom. If the latter they are easily dispatched with a hori knife (no gardener should be without this amazing tool) and thrown in the garbage rather than compost pile since they survive almost everything except crushing or incineration. Kniphofia northiae is the first knip to bloom in my garden, they are coloring up right now. From aley_wd@icloud.com Wed, 25 May 2016 15:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <212E6A00-818D-45A7-8520-BED7D8F8CBD6@icloud.com> From: William Aley Subject: NAPPRA and plant imports Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 17:44:55 -0400 Hi folks. It's interesting to see the evolution of the comments within this group. Even more Interesting is when someone actually reads the information. And to be honest I relate what goes on in these discussions back to the plants for planting group. No one else in the import staff is relating your comments back to the people who make decisions that will affect you. This group has influence government for over 10 years. Some points to ponder. We are not evil ( well mostly I cannot say I know everything about my coworkers.) just folks trying to get a job done mostly because of passion rather than making a fortune. The rules that we create are not done in a vacuum, in fact everything we do is vetted and reviewed. For instance we have to publish a draft PRA to see if the public agrees with the scientists ( I assume people with PhDs can be called scientist) And what they wrote. Although often the review of PRAs garners one or two comments. Somehow we are not reaching all stakeholders or people don't care to comment. I'm working on a rule now and only two comments were received, one from the state of Florida that said no and another from Louisiana that said yes. Apparently no other state department of agriculture or Organization or individual thought it important enough to comment on. The rationale for making rules is often the result of pest interdiction or an import system needs a change. Lately is allowing already enter able barefoot plants to be imported in growing media. Very controversial. Image having a foreign grown plant available directly to the retailer. It cuts out nurseries that buy plants. Pot them. Grown them and then sell them. It's not about pest risk that there is controversy. The Q37 quarantine group (P4P) is currently getting a make over to the system since the creation of this quarantine in the late 70's. Funding for my part of APHIS is primarily through user fees. Of course every agency wants access to those fees. Remember Bush and the creation of Homeland Security. 75% of our uniformed officers were transferred to DHS. And we pay over 75% of our budget to DHS. They are constantly trying to get a larger slice to protect USA. The laws of USDA are very old- 'what was the commerce of trade for the 13 colonies?'. It certainly wasn't motorcycles and iPhones Early trade was agriculture and the laws were put in place to protect the early states. Lincoln created USDA as the people's department. Because we deal with the stuff people use. Customs is Revenue. Remember from prohibition the Gmen as revenuer's? I have said to this group many times. The power of one person is to influence those that agree. The power of many who use one spokesperson is huge. Look at the landscape groups and the florists. They have paid advocates to discuss with us issues that their constituents are concerned for. They can actually receive an audience from APHIS Administrator to the Secretary of Agriculture (and both Osama and Tom are really nice folk). For the most part. The people I work with lack an agenda other than to do their job and protect American Agriculture and they try to do the best they can. I can only speak for my staff. We care about plants, we are a group of plant and plant pest geeks. We have pathologists, virologists, botanist and horticulturalist on out staff. Everyone has a minimum of a BS in science. (that's me BS Env Hort CalPoly SLO'91). So yea I'm not as bright as most but somehow I get things done and take a lot of flack as the plant gestapo from people I'm willing to help. If you don't like the way things are currently we will listen. Sometimes individually we are just as powerless as you may feel. Many of these laws were written in the early 1900's I wasn't born then. Here's an example. One of the documents in my cubicle. The director of plant quarantine requested the US inspectors to be lenient when inspecting Belgium boxed & field grown Azaleas (untreated raw wood containers with plants in native soil) entering the US due to the skirmish that was going on in Europe. It is dated 1915. So if you read into that import the way I do, you'd wonder why there are not more problems in the US. And our standard are far greater now than how last century started. Our job is to protect and serve. Thanks for your comments and commentaries. It provides me with information to educate our staff. William Aley. A very Google-able gov employee. From aley_wd@icloud.com Wed, 25 May 2016 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <4E84CA8F-2653-432C-97D1-31D75814B797@icloud.com> From: William Aley Subject: possible change in importation rules (NAPPRA) Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 18:21:22 -0400 NAPPRA was primarily to be a tool to obtain pest risk from plants that have been imported in large numbers with a pest risk as a host to a plant pest or as a plant pest. Invasiveness is only one aspect of risk. The problem is that historically plants enter the us without any knowledge of what the risk is. Initially NAPPRA would look at a range of plants. Those with a risk associated with them and have low import records or high plant pest profiles. The weedy plants are the result of the promotion for 'Alien Invasive's' and the lack of funding to support domestic weed programs pit was lobbied that NAPPRA could be used to take care of weed plant imports. I always do long texts. Sorry about the read. William Aley Sent from my iPhone > On May 25, 2016, at 13:06, Michael Mace wrote: > > Hi, gang. > > We've gone over the US NAPPRA rules on this list a couple of times in the > last few years, but we keep adding new people to the list, so let me recap > how I think the system works. Bill and others, please jump in and correct me > if I get anything wrong. > > The way the NAPPRA process works is that APHIS occasionally proposes a list > of potentially invasive species that might be banned from importation unless > they pass a test of invasiveness. Those plants seem to have been nominated > by advocates or to have shown up on a weed list in Australia or something > like that. Reading between the lines from talking with some APHIS folks, I > don't think they necessarily love the NAPPRA approach, but they felt they > were required to implement it under the law. There is intense lobbying in > favor of even more radical action from a number of major conservation > organizations in the US, ranging from the Nature Conservancy to the > California Native Plant Society. They are very aggressive, they use > apocalyptic language about threats from non-native plants, and they know how > to lobby in Washington. > > Considering all the political pressures, APHIS has so far been surprisingly > open to feedback from normal folks like us. But you need to read their > requests for comment, and send information when they ask for it. Expressing > opinions is useful, but the most important thing to do is give them > evidence. Our experiences with non-native plants, and our knowledge of their > distribution in the US, are relevant information to them. > > There is a comment period in which we can respond to a proposed listing with > information, which can include things like: > > --That plant is already established in the US, so there's no point in > banning it. > --That plant has been imported for years and hasn't proven to be invasive. > --We grow that plant and it does not spread. > --There is no scientific basis for that weed list in Australia (you'd be > amazed at how haphazard some of the online lists are). > --And so on... > > In the first round of proposed NAPPRA list additions, several commonly grown > bulbs were tentatively listed, including Alstroemeria aurea and Gladiolus > undulatus. We documented that they had been imported to the US for many > years, and were even being sold by botanical gardens. We also gathered > comments on the plants' invasive potential. We were successful in getting > those species removed from the list. > > If the system continues to work they way it has in the past, we should be > able to prevent the listing of the sorts of plants we bulb-growers grow. The > things that are getting restricted now are generally aquatic plants or > obscure tropical plants that have caused problems in the Pacific. > > Also, I haven't seen a new proposal for listings in more than a year, so I > get the feeling that adding more species is not a super-high priority. > > Bill and others, did I get any of that wrong? > > I'd like to add one personal comment: yes some things like Kudzu have caused > big problems. But those problems were created when the plants were either > deliberately spread through government policy, or were brought in > commercially in large quantities. For example, the government deliberately > planted and promoted Kudzu. Star thistle supposedly came in with > contaminated feed from Europe. Other plants have escaped from the nursery > trade when heavily promoted. But I'm not aware of any documented cases in > which a plant escaped from private collectors to become a problem weed. > Zero. > > Think about it: We understand our plants pretty well, we know which ones > spread around, and we're careful with them. We warn each other about plants > that show aggressive tendencies. We're actually a pretty good source of info > on which species need to be watched. We're not a significant problem, and I > think we can be part of the solution. I think it makes sense for us to > partner with the regulators, and for them to listen to us. So far, I think > they are wiling to do so. > > It's too bad that places like Nature Conservancy and CNPS don't seem to have > the same reasonable attitude. > > Mike > San Jose, CA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 27 May 2016 13:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1196103546.449343.1464379009126.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: A cool mistake Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 19:56:49 +0000 (UTC) I've got an image I want to share. It's tall bearded iris season in here, and I took a picture the other day which did not turn out right. I almost trashed it, but luckily I got a good look at it before I did. I don't know the explanation for what happened, but it resulted in an image which is definitely a keeper. I already have an 18 x 24 inch print hanging on the living room wall.  Take a look here (be sure to enlarge the image) and let me know what you think: http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2016/05/tall-bearded-irises-painterly-view.html Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where there is even more rain in the forecast for this week.  _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From lesleykayrichardson@gmail.com Fri, 27 May 2016 14:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Lesley Richardson Subject: A cool mistake Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 13:16:51 -0700 OK. The image is really quite beautiful. Made my heart sing. Thank you for sharing it. Lesley On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > I've got an image I want to share. It's tall bearded iris season in here, > and I took a picture the other day which did not turn out right. I almost > trashed it, but luckily I got a good look at it before I did. I don't know > the explanation for what happened, but it resulted in an image which is > definitely a keeper. I already have an 18 x 24 inch print hanging on the > living room wall. > Take a look here (be sure to enlarge the image) and let me know what you > think: > http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2016/05/tall-bearded-irises-painterly-view.html > > Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where there is > even more rain in the forecast for this week. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ralph.carpenter1@googlemail.com Fri, 27 May 2016 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: John Ralph Carpenter Subject: A cool mistake Date: Sat, 28 May 2016 00:02:11 +0100 Monet? On Friday, 27 May 2016, Lesley Richardson wrote: > OK. The image is really quite beautiful. Made my heart sing. Thank you for > sharing it. > Lesley > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Jim McKenney > wrote: > >> I've got an image I want to share. It's tall bearded iris season in here, >> and I took a picture the other day which did not turn out right. I almost >> trashed it, but luckily I got a good look at it before I did. I don't know >> the explanation for what happened, but it resulted in an image which is >> definitely a keeper. I already have an 18 x 24 inch print hanging on the >> living room wall. >> Take a look here (be sure to enlarge the image) and let me know what you >> think: >> http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2016/05/tall-bearded-irises-painterly-view.html >> >> Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where there is >> even more rain in the forecast for this week. >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ralph Carpenter 2 & 3 Stone Cottages Chilmington Green Great Chart Ashford Kent TN23 3DW 01233 637567 From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 27 May 2016 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <559432294.532665.1464390466053.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: A cool mistake Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 23:07:46 +0000 (UTC) John, you're the second person to say so. Thanks.  From: John Ralph Carpenter To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] A cool mistake Monet? On Friday, 27 May 2016, Lesley Richardson wrote: > OK. The image is really quite beautiful. Made my heart sing. Thank you for > sharing it. > Lesley > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Jim McKenney > wrote: > >> I've got an image I want to share. It's tall bearded iris season in here, >> and I took a picture the other day which did not turn out right. I almost >> trashed it, but luckily I got a good look at it before I did. I don't know >> the explanation for what happened, but it resulted in an image which is >> definitely a keeper. I already have an 18 x 24 inch print hanging on the >> living room wall. >> Take a look here (be sure to enlarge the image) and let me know what you >> think: >> http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2016/05/tall-bearded-irises-painterly-view.html >> >> Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where there is >> even more rain in the forecast for this week. >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ralph Carpenter 2 & 3 Stone Cottages Chilmington Green Great Chart Ashford Kent TN23 3DW 01233 637567 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Tue, 31 May 2016 07:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <9e6371c3-4669-f938-8cb6-d70808c52d0d@mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Pacific Coast Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 06:54:57 -0700 My husband and I recently traveled north and did some hiking and visiting in Northern California, Oregon, and southern Washington. I've been adding some new photos to the wiki from our trip. I've been working on the Pacific Coast Irises page and adding species seen in the wild. We met Kathleen Sayce and I've added photos too of some of the amazing hybrids she grows in her garden in Washington. Many of these she grew from seed. I decided there were enough photos to make a page for the hybrids. She helped me with some of the text. We both agree that we are lucky to live where it is easy to grow these plants. It's been a glorious year for Iris douglasiana where I live which has been blooming for months and months, in some instances in masses. We've had a normal rainfall year after years of drought and that probably helped. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastIrises http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastHybrids Mary Sue From jgglatt@gmail.com Tue, 31 May 2016 09:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <574DB63E.8020303@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Unbridled Botanical Beauty in Morocco Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 12:05:18 -0400 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/30/t-magazine/morocco-garden-umberto-pasti-rohuna.html?hpw&rref=t-magazine&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well Pictures 5, 6, 7 out of 10 Our kind of guy. Judy in New Jersey where the August kind of weather has, slightly, moderated From sarahh@suiattle.net Tue, 31 May 2016 10:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <00ACD2E6-E4C8-4B35-A32F-63C8344B0105@suiattle.net> From: Sarah Hinckley Subject: Pacific Coast Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 09:43:14 -0700 Thank you Mary Sue! Can anyone suggest a good nursery that carries the Pacific Coast hybrids (beyond the usual white and blue ones found in many nurseries)? I'm in western Washington, so if the nursery is out of the area, it would need to do mail order. Thanks! Sarah Sent from my iPhone > On May 31, 2016, at 6:54, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > > My husband and I recently traveled north and did some hiking and visiting in Northern California, Oregon, and southern Washington. I've been adding some new photos to the wiki from our trip. I've been working on the Pacific Coast Irises page and adding species seen in the wild. We met Kathleen Sayce and I've added photos too of some of the amazing hybrids she grows in her garden in Washington. Many of these she grew from seed. I decided there were enough photos to make a page for the hybrids. She helped me with some of the text. We both agree that we are lucky to live where it is easy to grow these plants. It's been a glorious year for Iris douglasiana where I live which has been blooming for months and months, in some instances in masses. We've had a normal rainfall year after years of drought and that probably helped. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastIrises > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastHybrids > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue, 31 May 2016 10:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <156365115.1851712.1464714371005.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Unbridled Botanical Beauty in Morocco Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 17:06:10 +0000 (UTC) I read this the other day: the only thing I kept wondering about is how two Italian guys (partners) would do in a part of Morocco where, according to the writer, there were people who had never seen a European. Of greatest plant interest to me: the account of moving so many Iris planifolia into the garden from local construction sites. Of all the members of the juino/scorpiris group, I. planifolia is I think the only European member; yet I can't remember ever having seen it offered commercially. Yes, seeds were offered in a recent SX, and I was very happy to get mine.I took a look at the wikipedia entry for this species and right away spotted two errors: the species name is not Greek, it's Latin; and the writer of that piece gives it a USDA zone rating of zone 3: highly improbable.  Are high school and college students getting credits for composing wikipedia entries? More and more I'm seeing meticulously documented (as one would for a school report or paper) Wikipedia entries which contain numerous errors.  Wikipedia can be a great resource - if one already knows the answers!  Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From terri.bates@gmail.com Tue, 31 May 2016 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1DBCBFD0-76B0-4CA3-9CFD-361A93B07CC1@gmail.com> From: Terri Bates Subject: Pacific Coast Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 10:21:55 -0700 There is of course the Society for Pacific Coast Native Iris seed exchange http://www.pacificcoastiris.org/spcni_seedexchange.html In Western WA (Seattle-Renton area) we also have the wonderful resource of PCI specialty nursery LeonineIris.com. I think this weekend was his last open garden what with the weather pushing everything early. He sells mail order through fall. Also, Iris Society beardless sales tend to include PCI hybrids. My chapter's 9/17 sale in Bellevue area will have some (KCIS.org). Other local Iris society members with nurseries grow PCIs and might sell them. Mt Pleasant Iris in Washougal and Aitkens Salmon Creek in Vancouver for example, but I know Cascadia Iris Gardens in Lake Stevens is out of stock for this year. Far Reaches Farm in Port Townsend usually sells a few. The only others I've seen have been native plant society sales and the big annual sales with many vendors. Regards, Terri Bates Maple Valley WA Z7b garden in riparian forest at foot of cascade foothills. Disclaimer: most of these nursery owners are friends and fellow members of my local AIS chapter. On May 31, 2016, at 9:43 AM, Sarah Hinckley wrote: Thank you Mary Sue! Can anyone suggest a good nursery that carries the Pacific Coast hybrids (beyond the usual white and blue ones found in many nurseries)? I'm in western Washington, so if the nursery is out of the area, it would need to do mail order. Thanks! Sarah Sent from my iPhone > On May 31, 2016, at 6:54, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > > My husband and I recently traveled north and did some hiking and visiting in Northern California, Oregon, and southern Washington. I've been adding some new photos to the wiki from our trip. I've been working on the Pacific Coast Irises page and adding species seen in the wild. We met Kathleen Sayce and I've added photos too of some of the amazing hybrids she grows in her garden in Washington. Many of these she grew from seed. I decided there were enough photos to make a page for the hybrids. She helped me with some of the text. We both agree that we are lucky to live where it is easy to grow these plants. It's been a glorious year for Iris douglasiana where I live which has been blooming for months and months, in some instances in masses. We've had a normal rainfall year after years of drought and that probably helped. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastIrises > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastHybrids > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Tue, 31 May 2016 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <150072114.2487667.1464718072087.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: Pacific Coast Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 18:07:52 +0000 (UTC) Big variety at Leonine Iris in Washington. Leonine Iris - Home |   | |   | |   |   |   |   |   | | Leonine Iris - HomeEmbodying the luminescence of the rainbow, irises add prismatic brilliance to any landscape and bring joy to the heart. | | | | View on www.leonineiris.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | |   | On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 9:43 AM, Sarah Hinckley wrote: Thank you Mary Sue! Can anyone suggest a good nursery that carries the Pacific Coast hybrids (beyond the usual white and blue ones found in many nurseries)? I'm in western Washington, so if the nursery is out of the area, it would need to do mail order. Thanks! Sarah Sent from my iPhone > On May 31, 2016, at 6:54, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > > My husband and I recently traveled north and did some hiking and visiting in Northern California, Oregon, and southern Washington. I've been adding some new photos to the wiki from our trip. I've been working on the Pacific Coast Irises page and adding species seen in the wild. We met Kathleen Sayce and I've added photos too of some of the amazing hybrids she grows in her garden in Washington. Many of these she grew from seed. I decided there were enough photos to make a page for the hybrids. She helped me with some of the text. We both agree that we are lucky to live where it is easy to grow these plants. It's been a glorious year for Iris douglasiana where I live which has been blooming for months and months, in some instances in masses. We've had a normal rainfall year after years of drought and that probably helped. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastIrises > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastHybrids > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janjeddeloh@gmail.com Tue, 31 May 2016 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <9A2F5A89-9F52-48D0-86A1-0A80F307BD95@gmail.com> From: Jan Jeddeloh Subject: Pacific Coast Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 11:19:08 -0700 Don’t forget Wild Ginger Farm in Beavercreek outside of Portland. They no longer do mail order but Emma has selected many lovely Pacific irises. She has done color corrected pictures of most of them so it’s easy to make selections even when they are out of bloom. http://www.wildgin gerfarm.com Jan > On May 31, 2016, at 11:07 AM, John Wickham wrote: > > Big variety at Leonine Iris in Washington. > Leonine Iris - Home > > | | > | | | | | | | | > | Leonine Iris - HomeEmbodying the luminescence of the rainbow, irises add prismatic brilliance to any landscape and bring joy to the heart. | > | | > | View on www.leonineiris.com | Preview by Yahoo | > | | > | | > > > > On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 9:43 AM, Sarah Hinckley wrote: > > > Thank you Mary Sue! > > Can anyone suggest a good nursery that carries the Pacific Coast hybrids (beyond the usual white and blue ones found in many nurseries)? > > I'm in western Washington, so if the nursery is out of the area, it would need to do mail order. > > Thanks! > > Sarah > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 31, 2016, at 6:54, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: >> >> My husband and I recently traveled north and did some hiking and visiting in Northern California, Oregon, and southern Washington. I've been adding some new photos to the wiki from our trip. I've been working on the Pacific Coast Irises page and adding species seen in the wild. We met Kathleen Sayce and I've added photos too of some of the amazing hybrids she grows in her garden in Washington. Many of these she grew from seed. I decided there were enough photos to make a page for the hybrids. She helped me with some of the text. We both agree that we are lucky to live where it is easy to grow these plants. It's been a glorious year for Iris douglasiana where I live which has been blooming for months and months, in some instances in masses. We've had a normal rainfall year after years of drought and that probably helped. >> >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastIrises >> >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastHybrids >> >> Mary Sue >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Tue, 31 May 2016 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: The Silent Seed Subject: Tall Bearded Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 14:25:58 -0400 The iris tangent has me wondering if anyone can recommend some sources for TBI's - other than Blue J and Schreiner's. I have been building a large collection of these with about 50 so far, and want to expand upon that. Thanks, Jude -- The Silent Seed Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. thesilentseed.com From ksayce@willapabay.org Tue, 31 May 2016 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Pacific Coast Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 11:35:00 -0700 Proximity to good PCI nurseries depends on where you are in the state. Leonine Iris is at the south end of Seattle, easy to reach if you live around the Sound. http://www.leonineiris.com If you are down in the Vancouver area, adjacent to Portland Metro, then go to Wild Ginger Farm at Beavercreek, Oregon, a few miles south of the 205-5 interchange. http://wildgingerfarm.com Both grow a wide range of PC Iris. Kathleen From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue, 31 May 2016 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1791622760.1897558.1464719890034.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Pacific Coast Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 18:38:10 +0000 (UTC) These posts about Pacific Coast irises have me wondering: is anyone on the East Coast growing them now? In an article by Don Humphrey in the libretto Rock Gardening in the Greater Washington, D.C., Region published (in 2001) by our local NARGS chapter, the Potomac Valley Chapter, Humphrey wrote: "Most of the West Coast irises also do well here in northern Virginia and come easily from seed. Iris douglasiana, probably the easiest, is also one of the largest. Several plants, planted many years ago, have formed a solid carpet about three feet wide...Iris innominata is, I think, the star of the group with its delicate narrow foliage and lovely, yellow flowers." Any West Coast iris growers out there among the East Coast lurkers?  Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where climbing roses are putting on their potently fragrant annual show.   _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue, 31 May 2016 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1938395274.1954036.1464721669411.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Pacific Coast Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 19:07:49 +0000 (UTC) Mary Sue wrote: "It's been a glorious year for Iris douglasiana where I live which has been blooming  for months and months, in some instances in masses."  With the exception of Iris unguicularis, I'm pretty sure every iris I grow has a very restricted period of bloom - heavily budded stalks might provide a week and a half of bloom.  I had no idea the West Coast irises bloomed for a matter of months. Is that typical of them as a group? That suggests that they have much greater garden value than I suspected.  Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Jasminum officinale is in bloom.  _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@frontier.com Tue, 31 May 2016 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <925795.88296.bm@smtp209.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Dell Sherk Subject: Tall Bearded Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 15:35:31 -0400 Gordon Wild’s of Missouri Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: The Silent Seed Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:27 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Tall Bearded Irises The iris tangent has me wondering if anyone can recommend some sources for TBI's - other than Blue J and Schreiner's. I have been building a large collection of these with about 50 so far, and want to expand upon that. Thanks, Jude -- The Silent Seed Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. thesilentseed.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pelarg@aol.com Tue, 31 May 2016 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <15508715aa8-2f57-d511@webprd-m83.mail.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: Pacific Coast Irises in the east Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 16:11:34 -0400 Hi Jim, I grow a couple of them in NY, a purple and a white raised from seed. The white one died when we moved to the new house but the purple has done well. It isnt having as many flowers as usual right now (I see two so far) probably due to the arctic blast that dropped temps officially to -3F in the middle of an otherwise mild winter. That singed the leaves although that is normal by the end of winter, new ones grow back. I also have 2 seedlings from PCI group seed that made it thru the winter fine--in fact the other small seedlings perished not so much from winter but from constant digging by squirrels and chipmunks in that area. It got to the point that I had to place rocks around the seedlings to discourage them and I also trap and remove them. I have friends here in town, another couple that have a wonderful rock garden, who grow a couple of other PCI and have for years. I got a division of the buff colored one and it has taken in my garden, no blooms yet. I am of the o pinion that if enough people in the east try and grow PCIs from seed nature will select those that are best adapted for our conditions. It might be asking a bit much for them to grow in zones 5 and lower but then again, someone has to try. Perhaps with good snow cover they might work in such regions. Here at the edge of 7/6 they can survive and grow. I also don't know how they fare down south in much hotter summers, maybe some down south would know more. Ernie DeMarie in NY where the first Crinum bulbispermum flowers have opened as of today. ---- From farmerguys08@gmail.com Tue, 31 May 2016 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Paul Machado Subject: Tall Bearded Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 13:31:43 -0700 Dell, I believe that it is Gilbert H. Wild, www.gilberthwild.com who has iris, daylilies, peonies that I have purchased from before. All the best, Paul On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Dell Sherk wrote: > Gordon Wild’s of Missouri > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: The Silent Seed > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:27 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] Tall Bearded Irises > > The iris tangent has me wondering if anyone can recommend some sources for > TBI's - other than Blue J and Schreiner's. > I have been building a large collection of these with about 50 so far, and > want to expand upon that. > Thanks, Jude > > -- > The Silent Seed > Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. > thesilentseed.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@frontier.com Tue, 31 May 2016 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <624096.51763.bm@smtp115.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Dell Sherk Subject: Tall Bearded Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 16:44:44 -0400 Oh, of course, it’s Gilbert. I have bought from them for almost 50 years. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Paul Machado Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 4:33 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Tall Bearded Irises Dell, I believe that it is Gilbert H. Wild, www.gilberthwild.com who has iris, daylilies, peonies that I have purchased from before. All the best, Paul On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Dell Sherk wrote: > Gordon Wild’s of Missouri > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: The Silent Seed > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 2:27 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] Tall Bearded Irises > > The iris tangent has me wondering if anyone can recommend some sources for > TBI's - other than Blue J and Schreiner's. > I have been building a large collection of these with about 50 so far, and > want to expand upon that. > Thanks, Jude > > -- > The Silent Seed > Rare and Unusual plants from around the world. > thesilentseed.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue, 31 May 2016 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1DA2FC1C-2606-4890-BB8C-9B0CB9456A8B@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Tall Bearded Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 17:11:41 -0500 Dears, Gilbert Wild’s in Sarcoxie Mo sold off ALL their Irises years ago, but have recently begun accumulating a few for sale. Odds and ends, byut cheap, mostly. If you want the top of the heap, probably the foremost hybrids are produced by Mid-America Garden and Keith Keppel (Google both) There are dozens of lower priced sellers with recent hybrids such as Iris Sisters Farm and Comanche Acres. Bottom line - do not go to Wild’s to buy irises, do try the above or even the Commercial Directory of the American Iris Society at http://www.irises.org/Resources/Commercial_Ref.html No shortage when around 1100 new cvs are inroduced every year. Really. Jim W. > Subject: [pbs] Tall Bearded Irises > > The iris tangent has me wondering if anyone can recommend some sources for > TBI's - other than Blue J and Schreiner's. > I have been building a large collection of these with about 50 so far, and > want to expand upon that. > Thanks, Jude > > -- Dr. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From amcdeubner@gmail.com Tue, 31 May 2016 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Anne McNeil Subject: A cool mistake Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 15:36:52 -0700 I love it! I feel like I am in France in the 1870s! On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > John, you're the second person to say so. Thanks. > > From: John Ralph Carpenter > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 7:02 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] A cool mistake > > Monet? > > On Friday, 27 May 2016, Lesley Richardson > wrote: > > OK. The image is really quite beautiful. Made my heart sing. Thank you > for > > sharing it. > > Lesley > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Jim McKenney < > jamesamckenney@verizon.net > > > > wrote: > > > >> I've got an image I want to share. It's tall bearded iris season in > here, > >> and I took a picture the other day which did not turn out right. I > almost > >> trashed it, but luckily I got a good look at it before I did. I don't > know > >> the explanation for what happened, but it resulted in an image which is > >> definitely a keeper. I already have an 18 x 24 inch print hanging on the > >> living room wall. > >> Take a look here (be sure to enlarge the image) and let me know what you > >> think: > >> > http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2016/05/tall-bearded-irises-painterly-view.html > >> > >> Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where there > is > >> even more rain in the forecast for this week. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > -- > Ralph Carpenter > 2 & 3 Stone Cottages > Chilmington Green > Great Chart > Ashford > Kent TN23 3DW > > 01233 637567 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From amcdeubner@gmail.com Tue, 31 May 2016 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Anne McNeil Subject: A cool mistake Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 15:39:33 -0700 Would it be possible to get a large print of it, I would love this hanging on my wall! On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Anne McNeil wrote: > I love it! I feel like I am in France in the 1870s! > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Jim McKenney > wrote: > >> John, you're the second person to say so. Thanks. >> >> From: John Ralph Carpenter >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 7:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] A cool mistake >> >> Monet? >> >> On Friday, 27 May 2016, Lesley Richardson >> wrote: >> > OK. The image is really quite beautiful. Made my heart sing. Thank you >> for >> > sharing it. >> > Lesley >> > >> > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Jim McKenney < >> jamesamckenney@verizon.net >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> >> I've got an image I want to share. It's tall bearded iris season in >> here, >> >> and I took a picture the other day which did not turn out right. I >> almost >> >> trashed it, but luckily I got a good look at it before I did. I don't >> know >> >> the explanation for what happened, but it resulted in an image which is >> >> definitely a keeper. I already have an 18 x 24 inch print hanging on >> the >> >> living room wall. >> >> Take a look here (be sure to enlarge the image) and let me know what >> you >> >> think: >> >> >> http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2016/05/tall-bearded-irises-painterly-view.html >> >> >> >> Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where there >> is >> >> even more rain in the forecast for this week. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ >> > pbs mailing list >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > >> >> -- >> Ralph Carpenter >> 2 & 3 Stone Cottages >> Chilmington Green >> Great Chart >> Ashford >> Kent TN23 3DW >> >> 01233 637567 >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > > From msittner@mcn.org Tue, 31 May 2016 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Pacific Coast Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 16:19:44 -0700 Hi Jim, I hike where I live every week and we saw our first Iris douglasiana in flower in January and then again a few in February. So that was exciting. The best bloom time to see them has been April and May. I think we have seen a few to a lot of flowers on every hike those months and there were still flowers to be seen on our hike last Thursday. This doesn't necessarily mean that each plant blooms for a long time. None of the ones in my garden were in flower in January or February. It probably has something to do with conditions to their liking influencing when they flower. I have a lot of them growing in my yard and I haven't kept track of how many days I see flowers. I expect it is more than a month however. It's a much longer time in my garden than Iris unguicularis is in bloom. The individual flowers are short lived however. Mary Sue > Mary Sue wrote: "It's been a glorious year for Iris douglasiana where I live which has been blooming > for months and months, in some instances in masses." > Is that typical of them as a group? That suggests that they have much greater garden value than I suspected. > From lamonready@hotmail.com Tue, 31 May 2016 18:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Lamon Ready Subject: Tall Bearded Irises Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 20:19:42 -0400 I have bought from Sutton's & Nora's. I don't remember Nora's, but Sutton's I like. Google will find them both. > From: jwaddick@kc.rr.com > Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 17:11:41 -0500 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Tall Bearded Irises > > Dears, > Gilbert Wild’s in Sarcoxie Mo sold off ALL their Irises years ago, but have recently begun accumulating a few for sale. Odds and ends, byut cheap, mostly. > > If you want the top of the heap, probably the foremost hybrids are produced by Mid-America Garden and Keith Keppel (Google both) > > There are dozens of lower priced sellers with recent hybrids such as Iris Sisters Farm and Comanche Acres. > > > Bottom line - do not go to Wild’s to buy irises, do try the above or even the Commercial Directory of the American Iris Society at http://www.irises.org/Resources/Commercial_Ref.html > > No shortage when around 1100 new cvs are inroduced every year. Really. Jim W. > > > > > > Subject: [pbs] Tall Bearded Irises > > > > The iris tangent has me wondering if anyone can recommend some sources for > > TBI's - other than Blue J and Schreiner's. > > I have been building a large collection of these with about 50 so far, and > > want to expand upon that. > > Thanks, Jude > > > > -- > > Dr. James Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd > Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 > USA > Phone 816-746-1949 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From lois_cook@sbcglobal.net Tue, 31 May 2016 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <224853613.2089660.1464745712284.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Lois Cook Subject: Sources for Iris--all kinds Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 01:48:32 +0000 (UTC) Hi,This my first submission to the list tho I have belonged to PBS for quite awhile.I have grown many iris--many kinds.  To find sources for many kinds of Irisgo to American Iris Society.  On the opening screen there is a column forMembers Services etc.  When opened there is a category for CommericialSellers.  I hope this is helpful.  I enjoy the list a lot tho many of the Latin namesI have to look up.                   Lois Cook _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue, 31 May 2016 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <87da6b5d-de01-0445-14d6-1884fd8cb415@earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fwd: PBS website contact: Haemanthus albiflos Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 20:00:55 -0700 The following question came via the PBS website. If you can advice Liz about her plant, please write to her directly at the address below.\ Thanks, Jane McGary -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: PBS website contact:watering Date: 31 May 2016 13:14:24 -0400, Tue, 31 May 2016 13:14:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Apache Reply-To: liz weinheimer To: janemcgary@earthlink.net This is a message from the PBS website for janemcgary. I have recently bought a haemanthus albifoirs and would like info on general watering conditions, can you help? Thanks, liz w. -- Pacific Bulb Society web site email: website@pacificbulbsociety.org From ksayce@willapabay.org Tue, 31 May 2016 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Pacific Coast Irises in the east Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 20:03:56 -0700 Ernie’s comment, I am of the opinion that if enough people in the east try and grow PCIs from seed nature will select those that are best adapted for our conditions, is correct. We have some west coast growers looking for east coast gardeners to work with to improve hardiness in PCI. In our next issue of Pacific Iris, there will be a request for this from Garry Knipe, a hybridizer in Cupertino, CA, who is looking for eastern partners. PCI also intensely dislike hot, humid summer conditions, which gardeners may read as die quickly under these circumstances. This keeps them from being grown in much of the south to east portions of north america. Kathleen