I've been real quiet lately, and debated whether I should chime in on this topic, alas I think my poorer part won, so here is a lengthy reply... Christiaan--Thank you for your thoughtful explanation; you've increase my understanding of this several fold, and there's much that I'll have to research further. If I can produce (and capture! ) o.obtusa seeds, I'd be happy to put some on the SX if there's a way to keep them alive. Rick Buell