From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Fri, 01 Mar 2013 09:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <7E356D89-3B08-42E3-9A2A-9632915EEA00@gmail.com> From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: watering the sand between pots in a plunge bed Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 09:07:18 -0800 Thank you Arnold. I water my Narcissus boxes more than I water the species in the plunge bed. It sounds like it is ok then to just water the pots. These are blooming now in the box: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8519197272/in/set-72157632890152554 Construction through blooms: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/sets/72157632890152554/ - Gastil Santa Barbara, California From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Fri, 01 Mar 2013 23:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <410-22013351174639375@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: watering the sand between pots in a plunge bed Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 12:46:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [pbs] watering the sand between pots in a plunge bed > > Thank you Arnold. > I water my Narcissus boxes more than I water the species in the plunge > bed. > It sounds like it is ok then to just water the pots. > Under cover in Z5 Connecticut, when using clay pots, I always watered the plunge during the cold and cloudy winter. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USDA 8a From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 01 Mar 2013 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: watering the sand between pots in a plunge bed Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 09:55:40 -0800 Some Narcissus species tolerate very dry summer conditions as long as they are not in above-ground pots, but others are naturally plants of sites that have some moisture throughout the year and I don't think they should be dried out completely. I recommend "Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils" by John Blanchard, which discusses the habitats of many species. The author is also frank about the difficulty of distinguishing some of the species, which makes me feel better when I can't really verify some of the names under which I grew my plants. Many of the Bulbocodium section are in flower here now, as well as the earlier ones of sec. Pseudonarcissus and sec. Jonquilla. N. obvallaris has come into flower in the garden, growing in turf as it typically does in nature. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA At 09:07 AM 3/1/2013, you wrote: >Thank you Arnold. >I water my Narcissus boxes more than I water the species in the plunge >bed. >It sounds like it is ok then to just water the pots. > >These are blooming now in the box: >http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8519197272/in/set-72157632890152554 > >Construction through blooms: >http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/sets/72157632890152554/ > >- Gastil >Santa Barbara, California >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Text inserted by Panda GP 2013: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: > http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_338&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\NetworkService\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202013\AntiSpam >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From totototo@telus.net Fri, 01 Mar 2013 13:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: <513099DE.8444.47CD@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: watering the sand between pots in a plunge bed Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 12:06:54 -0800 On 28 Feb 2013, at 18:05, Gastil Gastil-Buhl wrote: > Hi PBS folks with plunge beds, > > Should I only water the pots or should I also water the sand between the > pots in a plunge bed? When I had plunge beds, I just turned the hose on them, using a good rose, so everything got watered, bed, pots, everything. [Nelson appears to no longer make the watering roses I prefer. They have a baffle in them to break the force of the spray.] > The between-pots sand is as coarse as sand gets before it gets called > gravel. That may be a mistake. As far as moisture management is concerned, plunge beds operate via capillary attraction, and fine sand has a greater moisture holding capacity. It's also important that the sand be in direct contact with the soil. Thus if a pot is overwatered, the excess is wicked away (via capillarity) into the sand bed and thence into the surrounding soil. If a pot begins to dry out, the sand and surrounding soil act as a source of moisture. The overall effect of a plunge bed is to greatly even out conditions in the pots, which would otherwise vary between flooded and desiccated. When I had plunge bed, I always used red terra cotta pots in them with no drainage material in the bottom, again in order to maintain that all-important capillary contact between potting compost, sand bed, and surrounding soil. Note that if you don't have plunge beds, terra cotta may be counter-productive. I remember Alberto at the 1993 Western Study Weekend in San Mateo, California, remarking that he grew his bulbs in (unplunged) plastic pots; terra cotta would have been subject to evaporative cooling, which would have kept the soil too cool for the bulbs he was growing. (Alberto may have since changed his practices, and I hope he will speak up if my account misrepresents his point of view.) -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Fri, 01 Mar 2013 13:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: watering the sand between pots in a plunge bed Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 12:36:18 -0800 Roger, your zone is milder than mine (9a-b) here in Dinuba, CA. so I'm wondering what you would suggest I use since I plan to build a plunge bed later this year. Karl Church On Mar 1, 2013 12:20 PM, "Rodger Whitlock" wrote: > On 28 Feb 2013, at 18:05, Gastil Gastil-Buhl wrote: > > > Hi PBS folks with plunge beds, > > > > Should I only water the pots or should I also water the sand between the > > pots in a plunge bed? > > When I had plunge beds, I just turned the hose on them, using a good rose, > so > everything got watered, bed, pots, everything. [Nelson appears to no longer > make the watering roses I prefer. They have a baffle in them to break the > force > of the spray.] > > > The between-pots sand is as coarse as sand gets before it gets called > > gravel. > > That may be a mistake. As far as moisture management is concerned, plunge > beds > operate via capillary attraction, and fine sand has a greater moisture > holding > capacity. It's also important that the sand be in direct contact with the > soil. > Thus if a pot is overwatered, the excess is wicked away (via capillarity) > into > the sand bed and thence into the surrounding soil. If a pot begins to dry > out, > the sand and surrounding soil act as a source of moisture. The overall > effect > of a plunge bed is to greatly even out conditions in the pots, which would > otherwise vary between flooded and desiccated. > > When I had plunge bed, I always used red terra cotta pots in them with no > drainage material in the bottom, again in order to maintain that > all-important > capillary contact between potting compost, sand bed, and surrounding soil. > > Note that if you don't have plunge beds, terra cotta may be > counter-productive. > I remember Alberto at the 1993 Western Study Weekend in San Mateo, > California, > remarking that he grew his bulbs in (unplunged) plastic pots; terra cotta > would > have been subject to evaporative cooling, which would have kept the soil > too > cool for the bulbs he was growing. (Alberto may have since changed his > practices, and I hope he will speak up if my account misrepresents his > point of > view.) > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Fri, 01 Mar 2013 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <68454CC8-17F0-47BC-8F12-BBCA59746802@gmail.com> From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl Subject: watering the sand between the pots in a plunge bed Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 13:51:55 -0800 Hi Roger, Good to have your experienced input. This is my first plunge bed so I do expect to make mistakes. You are right, my coarse sand retains only 3/4 the water that finer grained sand holds. I measured the physical properties of the sand sold at my local store labeled 'horticultural sand' and the coarse silica sand I chose. The results are on the wiki http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/GrowingMedium The coarse sand retains only 0.23 ml/ml of water per volume sand whereas the finer sand retains 0.30 ml/ml. The mix inside the pots has a significant fraction of the same sand. The contact is not as close as I think it should be. The pots are not actually normal nursery pots. They are baskets for planting aquatic plants, lined with window screen. (Actually they are in nested pairs with the screen between, an idea I adapted from another PBS member.) You are also right that there is not enough contact between the plunge medium and the planting medium so capillary action is not as strong as it should be. I do have a watering wand with a fine spray but it only works with my hose. The city water is not suitable for my special bulbs, though I do use it on my ordinary bulbs. The plunge bed and bulb pots I only water with collected rain water. So I have to be quite careful to pour that in gently. That is two of you now who water between as well as in the pots. That is of course what nature does. - Gastil From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Sat, 02 Mar 2013 03:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1UBjlh-3TIk9w0@fwd57.t-online.de> From: "Johannes-Ulrich Urban" Subject: aquatic crinum Date: 02 Mar 2013 10:34 GMT Dear All, Does anybody have the experience in growing the aquatic Crinum species (in my case Crinum calamistratum and Crinum natans) emerged in wet soil but not submerged in an aquarium? The reason for asking is that right now there are beautiful young plants of these two species for sale in some aquarium shops and I am tempted. They are not often available. But I do not have an aquarium and do not really want to start one, already too many plants to look after.... So, if it could be grown as a swamp plant in a pot standing in a saucer filled with water it would be mine..... Greetings from Germany, the snowdrops feel cold..... a freezing but sunny day Uli From alanidae@gmail.com Sat, 02 Mar 2013 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: aquatic crinum Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 08:32:33 -0500 Dear Uli These Crinum species are true aquatics and don't produce alternate emergent foliage like many of the aquatic aroids grown in aquaria and other aquatic species that are only seasonally submerged in their natural condition. So in the conditions you describe even an enclosed terrarium and even in the shallow margins of a garden pond in summer, these Crinum species just kind of struggle and "wait for normal water levels to return" Alani On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 5:34 AM, Johannes-Ulrich Urban < johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de> wrote: > Dear All, > > > Does anybody have the experience in growing the aquatic Crinum species > (in my case Crinum calamistratum and Crinum natans) emerged in wet soil > but not submerged in an aquarium? > The reason for asking is that right now there are beautiful young plants > of these two species for sale in some aquarium shops and I am tempted. > They are not often available. But I do not have an aquarium and do not > really want to start one, already too many plants to look after.... > So, if it could be grown as a swamp plant in a pot standing in a saucer > filled with water it would be mine..... > > Greetings from Germany, the snowdrops feel cold..... a freezing but > sunny day > > > Uli > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Alani From ksayce@willapabay.org Sat, 02 Mar 2013 11:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <9E86FFFF-9CDC-415B-BF6E-BEC9F75CB6C1@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 10:17:35 -0800 This book, Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils, by John Blanchard, is out of print, and unavailable at several booksellers right now. I wonder if it is a good candidate for scanning? Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From john@oltarakwa.co.uk Sat, 02 Mar 2013 11:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <001301ce1774$430aceb0$c9206c10$@oltarakwa.co.uk> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 18:32:14 -0000 It may be out of print but it is very much in copyright! It is available through Amazon.co.uk John Grimshaw -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen Sayce Sent: 02 March 2013 18:18 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils This book, Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils, by John Blanchard, is out of print, and unavailable at several booksellers right now. I wonder if it is a good candidate for scanning? Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2641/5642 - Release Date: 03/02/13 From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Sat, 02 Mar 2013 11:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 10:48:09 -0800 Just checked, It is unavailable on Amazon.co.uk but thanks. RickK On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 10:32 AM, John Grimshaw wrote: > It may be out of print but it is very much in copyright! > > It is available through Amazon.co.uk > > > John Grimshaw > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Kathleen Sayce > Sent: 02 March 2013 18:18 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils > > This book, Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils, by John Blanchard, is out > of print, and unavailable at several booksellers right now. > I wonder if it is a good candidate for scanning? > > Kathleen > > Kathleen Sayce > PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2641/5642 - Release Date: 03/02/13 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From john@oltarakwa.co.uk Sat, 02 Mar 2013 11:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <002c01ce1777$669d6060$33d82120$@oltarakwa.co.uk> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 18:54:42 -0000 Try again - four copies listed on marketplace right now. Unless PBS members have just snapped them up :) -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of clayton3120 clayton3120 Sent: 02 March 2013 18:48 To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils Just checked, It is unavailable on Amazon.co.uk but thanks. RickK On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 10:32 AM, John Grimshaw wrote: > It may be out of print but it is very much in copyright! > > It is available through Amazon.co.uk > > > John Grimshaw > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Kathleen Sayce > Sent: 02 March 2013 18:18 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils > > This book, Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils, by John Blanchard, is > out of print, and unavailable at several booksellers right now. > I wonder if it is a good candidate for scanning? > > Kathleen > > Kathleen Sayce > PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2641/5642 - Release Date: > 03/02/13 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2641/5642 - Release Date: 03/02/13 From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Sat, 02 Mar 2013 12:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 11:26:47 -0800 In the era of one-click Amazon it is easy to forget we still have libraries. I looked on http://worldcat.org/ for Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils, by John Blanchard, 1990 The 1990 edition is at 7 libraries, more if you count other editions. The closest one to you Kathleen is at U. Washington, Seattle. Often local libraries offer inter-library loan. I hope you can obtain a copy. - Gastil From ksayce@willapabay.org Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <718EA5BE-7CDE-494A-85ED-3A824B6A46C5@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 13:37:46 -0800 I did check several sites before I posted my query, including Amazon UK, and it was not available when I checked. So I would say this book could take a little time to track down. Hence my comment on scanning. Kathleen From richrd@nas.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Richard Subject: Griffiths article Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 10:10:57 -0800 I've downloaded David Griiffiths, The Production of Lily Bulbs, USDA Circular 102, February 1930. 56 pages Will share files although note it was downloaded page by page as pdf and folder is over 50 mb. A great article with colorful narrative about propagating lilies in greenhouse and direct seeding into the field, bulb production and commercial harvest, handling using technology of the era. Images of Bellingham bulb experiment station and depression era views. Such as when hand seeding into the field using 15 year old boys who have small hands to sprinkle seeds into the rill with paper cups. Reminds me of my own experiences in early 50's interning at a commercial nursery on Long Island. I've printed out and bound for my own reference. Rich Haard If interested, let me know and I will try to forward the 56 files as a single emailing to multiple recipients mailing in a few days. From totototo@telus.net Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <513323AA.29655.31B3@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 10:19:22 -0800 On 2 Mar 2013, at 10:17, Kathleen Sayce wrote: > This book, Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils, by John Blanchard, is out of > print, and unavailable at several booksellers right now. I wonder if it is a > good candidate for scanning? Bookfinder.com shows seven used copies, all in the UK. Note that two of these listings have omitted the word "wild" from the title, but it's the same book. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: Griffiths article Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 18:45:12 +0000 Hi, In message , Richard writes >I've downloaded David Griiffiths, The Production of Lily Bulbs, USDA >Circular 102, February 1930. 56 pages I wonder where from. I could combine all the PDFs into one and put it on the PBS web space if that would help. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Sun, 03 Mar 2013 13:17:02 -0800 Message-Id: <348E9CACED0944428C10CDB19CC4E5FF@homepc> From: Subject: Narcissus -- A guide to wild daffodils Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:10:53 -0000 I have this book. Is there something somebody is looking to check information on regarding a, or any, particular species? Iain From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Sun, 03 Mar 2013 13:17:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4A2BRyGPz7MRFwIE@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Griffiths article Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:12:47 +0000 Hi, In message , David Pilling writes >>I've downloaded David Griiffiths, The Production of Lily Bulbs, USDA >>Circular 102, February 1930. 56 pages >I wonder where from. Answering my own question, it is simple to find on Google: http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/011393856 Only snag is that only single page downloads are available without a log in. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Sun, 03 Mar 2013 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <168C6AC2A55A491694377FE8EEA9184E@homepc> From: Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:25:25 -0000 It would be a great help if anyone on PBS could advise me on any of the following please. (1) what the temperature regimen is, if known, that initiates pollinating activity amongst the Nth. Am. Humming Bird species in relation to the genus Lilium ?; (2) do all Humming Bird species function seasonally or selectively as pollinators of native lilies or in conjungtion with other flowering plants?; (3) are there particular Humming Bird species which pollinate lilies, or do they all do so?; (3) have any lily species been noted as preferentially visited, or do they take what they need any old place ?; (5) are all, or any Humming Bird species migratory ? I apologise for my total dumb ignorance about your fascinating wee birdies but I am working on the chapter on pollination + pollen dispersal at present and have become painfully aware how little information is available on this side of our beautiful Blue Planet. Sadly there are no Palaearctic Humming Bird species although we have several remarkable day time / evening flying analogs, which are for example the Humming Bird Hawkmoths - in the genus Macroglossum (Macroglossum stellatarum) and also the Narrowborder Bee Hawkmoth - in the genus Hemaris (Hemaris tityus). Many thanks + fingers crossed, Iain From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Oxalis adenophylla Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:39:50 +0000 Most if not all of the problems mentioned would be solved if they were planted in a mix of coarse sand and gravel with no soil or anything else From fatsia1234-pbs1@yahoo.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1362347369.77581.YahooMailNeo@web160901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: jonathan Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 13:49:29 -0800 (PST) My comments pertain to the ruby-throated hummingbird, which is the only normal resident east of the Rocky Mountains, but may well pertain to those west of the Rockies as well. 1.  They eat whenever they are present, getting nectar (for energy) from flowers and protein from gnats and other small insects.  They will drink nectar from any flower they can get their bill into.  It is cold here right now (for us) with a mild frost expected tonight, and the hummingbird in my garden has been at the only currently open flowers, which are Viola tricolor (as well as numerous stops at the sugar-water feeder).  When any lilies here are flowering, the birds will visit them as well as any other flowers with nectar. 2..As in #1, they drink nectar for energy, so the pollination would occur at any time there is pollen and a receptive ovary available that their little forehead brushes against. 3. I don't know for sure, but I imagine that, since they all drink nectar, they all will pollinate lilies. 4. Refer to above. 5.  The ruby-throated makes a miraculous migration to Central America every year, flying hundreds of miles over open Gulf of Mexico waters. Here's a good site for migration facts -- http://www.hummingbirds.net/migration.html Jonathan Lubar Gainesville/Alachua Florida  z9a/8b >________________________________ > From: "iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org" >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 4:25 PM >Subject: [pbs] Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds > > > >It would be a great help if anyone on PBS could advise me on any of the following please. > >(1) what the temperature regimen is, if known, that initiates pollinating activity amongst the Nth. Am. Humming Bird species in relation to the genus Lilium ?; >(2) do all Humming Bird species function seasonally or selectively as pollinators of native lilies or in conjungtion with other flowering plants?; >(3) are there particular Humming Bird species which pollinate lilies, or do they all do so?; >(3) have any lily species been noted as preferentially visited, or do they take what they need any old place ?; >(5) are all, or any Humming Bird species migratory ?  > >I apologise for my total dumb ignorance about your fascinating wee birdies but I am working on the chapter on pollination + pollen dispersal at present and >have become painfully aware how little information is available on this side of our beautiful Blue Planet. > >Sadly there are no Palaearctic Humming Bird species although we have several remarkable day time / evening flying analogs, which are for example >the Humming Bird Hawkmoths  -  in the genus Macroglossum (Macroglossum stellatarum) and also the Narrowborder Bee Hawkmoth  - in the genus >Hemaris (Hemaris tityus). > >Many thanks + fingers crossed,  Iain >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From fatsia1234-pbs1@yahoo.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1362347597.5831.YahooMailNeo@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: jonathan Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 13:53:17 -0800 (PST) >Ian, by the way, we not only have hummingbirds seasonally but also, as you do, hawkmoths , which people routinely insist are "baby hummingbirds". Sometimes no amount of discussion can convince them that what they saw was not a hummingbird. > > >Jonathan Lubar >Gainesville/Alachua, Florida  z9a/8b  >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <9EEBB3C5-692D-42FC-8FE3-D1D61A1B1960@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 14:09:07 -0800 Jonathan's comments also apply here on the West coast. We have two species, one migratory, one not. I have never noticed either on lilies, but I don't have many lilies, and do grow lots of fuchsias, and other hummer favourites. In mid-winter, the hummingbirds feed on Grevillea victoriae, Arbutus unedo, Mahonia. There are also a lot of bright yellow Jasminum nudiflorum flowers all winter, very close to one of the feeders, but I have never seen a hummer on them. No nectar, I guess. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) From paige@hillkeep.ca Sun, 03 Mar 2013 15:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <92987948-C0D2-4786-BDBB-99D0A077AC23@hillkeep.ca> From: Paige Woodward Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 14:18:37 -0800 In his treatment of Lilium in the Flora of North America, Mark Skinner mentions pollinators associated with particular species. http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=118558 Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:31:10 -0800 I know only about the hummingbirds of western North America. Someone else will have to talk about the eastern ones and the eastern lilies. I haven't noticed hummingbirds being particularly drawn to lilies, but since there are plenty of orange and reddish lilies around here, I suppose they are. From occasional observation I would guess the main pollinators of our lilies are bumblebees. Western American hummingbirds are migratory in the northern part of their range but at least one species will overwinter here in Portland, Oregon, especially if people put out feeders. At my former home in the Cascade foothills, I noted that the only usual species, the Rufous Hummingbird, arrived synchronously with the flowering of the native shrub Ribes sanguineum (flowering currant). As Paige mentioned, the only native plants offering nectar earlier may be mahonias (Berberis spp.). Our hummers seem to feed more on the flowers of shrubs than of low-growing plants, though in fall they will feed on penstemons and zauschneria (Epilobium spp.). Near the ground they are vulnerable to predators, especially domestic cats. Their favorite bulbs here are Fritillaria recurva and Dichelostemma ida-maia; I think they are the only pollinator of the latter. They also go crazy for Crocosmia and Kniphofia. Many South American plants have evolved for hummingbird pollination; they flock around the Eccremocarpus scaber (red form) that grows on my bulb house walls. Everyone enjoys them, especially in spring when they perform their aerial displays, but I wish people wouldn't put up so many feeders -- nectar and the small insects they get while feeding on flowers are much better for them, and when they congregate around feeders they can pass around diseases and also be caught by lurking cats. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA At 01:25 PM 3/3/2013, you wrote: >It would be a great help if anyone on PBS could advise me on any of >the following please. > >(1) what the temperature regimen is, if known, that initiates >pollinating activity amongst the Nth. Am. Humming Bird species in >relation to the genus Lilium ?; >(2) do all Humming Bird species function seasonally or selectively >as pollinators of native lilies or in conjungtion with other flowering plants?; >(3) are there particular Humming Bird species which pollinate >lilies, or do they all do so?; >(3) have any lily species been noted as preferentially visited, or >do they take what they need any old place ?; >(5) are all, or any Humming Bird species migratory ? > >I apologise for my total dumb ignorance about your fascinating wee >birdies but I am working on the chapter on pollination + pollen >dispersal at present and >have become painfully aware how little information is available on >this side of our beautiful Blue Planet. > >Sadly there are no Palaearctic Humming Bird species although we have >several remarkable day time / evening flying analogs, which are for example >the Humming Bird Hawkmoths - in the genus Macroglossum >(Macroglossum stellatarum) and also the Narrowborder Bee Hawkmoth - >in the genus >Hemaris (Hemaris tityus). > >Many thanks + fingers crossed, Iain >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Text inserted by Panda GP 2013: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: > http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_401&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Main\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202013\AntiSpam >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From loujost@yahoo.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <1362362587.25730.YahooMailClassic@web164004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Hummingbird pollination of lilies Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 18:03:07 -0800 (PST) Iain, don't just assume lilies are pollinated by hummingbirds. The recurved-petal species, at least, do not look to me like they are adapted to be pollinated by them. Maybe they are, I don't know, but most hummingbird-pollinated flowers are more tubular and have more copious nectar. From loujost@yahoo.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <1362362687.50957.YahooMailClassic@web164006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Hummingbird pollination of lilies Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 18:04:47 -0800 (PST) One  more thing: Just because a hummer visits a flower, that doesn't mean it is a pollinator. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <1362365589.48170.YahooMailNeo@web84502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Griffiths article Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 18:53:09 -0800 (PST) Rick and others, if you liked that, check these other Griffiths' titles out: A Score of Easily Propagated Lilies, circular 23, March 1928. The lilies treated are Madonna lily, Nankeen lily, Easter lily, Regal lily, Umbellatum lily, Orange lily, Thunberg lily, Redstar lily (L. concolor), Tiger lily, Leopard lily, Lemon lily (few now would call this easily propagated), Huboldt lily, Turk's cap lily (L.superbum), Columbia lily, Canada lily,Coral lily, Martagon lily, Hanson lily, Henry lily and Speciosum lily..  The Madonna Lily, Department Bulletin 1331, May 1925: from this I learned that there was once a successful business growing Madonna lilies here in Maryland!  The Regal Lily, Department Bulletin 1459, December 1926 Some Hybrid Martagon Lilies, Circular 299, December 1933. This treats not the European Lilium martagon and its hybrids but rather is an account of the development of what came to be known as the Bellingham Htybrid lilies.  Three ounces of seed purchased from Carl Purdy in 1919 yielded 3000 plants. From these three thousand plants, eleven were selected for propagation and introduction.  The circular includes  includes color plates of the inner tepals of ten of the hybrids  and a plate showing the full flower of an eleventh hybrid,  "Peter Puget' .  The Production of the Easter Lily in Northern Cimates, Professional Paper, August 1921 Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, probably about 10 miles north of David Griffiths' home in Washington, D.C.  From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: Griffiths article Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 19:01:43 -0800 Hi Jim, Love, Just love these titles, and sources. I wouldn't imagine anyone is out there growing Bermuda Lilies anymore. Did those back in the 60's , and would LOVE to get my hands on a bulb or 2 these days. Rick K On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Rick and others, if you liked that, check these other Griffiths' titles > out: > > A Score of Easily Propagated Lilies, circular 23, March 1928. The lilies > treated are Madonna lily, Nankeen lily, Easter lily, Regal lily, Umbellatum > lily, Orange lily, Thunberg lily, Redstar lily (L. concolor), Tiger lily, > Leopard lily, Lemon lily (few now would call this easily propagated), > Huboldt lily, Turk's cap lily (L.superbum), Columbia lily, Canada > lily,Coral lily, Martagon lily, Hanson lily, Henry lily and Speciosum > lily.. > > The Madonna Lily, Department Bulletin 1331, May 1925: from this I learned > that there was once a successful business growing Madonna lilies here in > Maryland! > > The Regal Lily, Department Bulletin 1459, December 1926 > > Some Hybrid Martagon Lilies, Circular 299, December 1933. This treats not > the European Lilium martagon and its hybrids but rather is an account of > the development of what came to be known as the Bellingham Htybrid > lilies. Three ounces of seed purchased from Carl Purdy in 1919 yielded > 3000 plants. From these three thousand plants, eleven were selected for > propagation and introduction. The circular includes includes color plates > of the inner tepals of ten of the hybrids and a plate showing the full > flower of an eleventh hybrid, "Peter Puget' . > > The Production of the Easter Lily in Northern Cimates, Professional Paper, > August 1921 > > Jim McKenney > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, probably about 10 miles > north of David Griffiths' home in Washington, D.C. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:17:02 -0800 Message-Id: <1362367308.15674.YahooMailNeo@web84502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Griffiths article Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 19:21:48 -0800 (PST) Rick, by "Bermuda lily" do you mean Lilium longiflorum  'Harrisii'? Jim McKenney From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:17:02 -0800 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Manfreda maculosa Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 22:42:01 -0500 I got seeds of Manfreda maculosa back in September 2011, from PBS BX 284. (Thank you, Monica!) I lost some seedlings early from drying out. The four surviving seedlings have been growing well indoors on a south-facing windowsill for the last 18 months. The largest one is in an orchid pot that has the drainage holes on the side of the pot about 1-inch up from the bottom. Since it's so happy, this evening I transplanted all the others into orchid pots too. To my surprise one of them was already forming a pup, which I accidentally knocked off. I have my fingers crossed that one might bloom this year. Even if they don't, I couldn't be happier. I never expected them to be so happy as indoor houseplants. I just love it! I'm not sure the native habitat of this species (just that it comes from south Texas and Mexico), but I'm surprised how much water it can take. The orchid pots are designed to hold water, and these plants obviously love that (wet feet, but dry "bulbs"). Dennis in Cincinnati From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 22:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: Griffiths article Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:59:31 -0800 Yes, Jim. exactly On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Rick, by "Bermuda lily" do you mean Lilium longiflorum 'Harrisii'? > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From richrd@nas.com Sun, 03 Mar 2013 23:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <2F276942-1ABC-49A5-B42D-211883D85E0C@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: Griffiths Biography Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 22:44:16 -0800 For my own interest and others here is biography of David Griffiths, 1867-1935 American botanist. David Griffiths was born in Aberystwyth, Wales, but emigrated to the United States with his family when he was three years old and grew up on a farm in South Dakota. After graduating from South Dakota Agricultural College in 1892 and receiving his MSc in 1893, he taught science at the local high school in Aberdeen for five years until he enrolled as a doctoral candidate at Columbia University in 1898. His research at this time was focused on the study of fungi and resulted in numerous published articles on powdery mildews, smuts, ergots and others in the Asa Gray Bulletin, Torrey Botanical Club Bulletin and elsewhere. After receiving his PhD in 1900, he was appointed professor of botany and botanist at the Experiment Station of the University of Arizona and there began his studies on grasses and other range plants. The following year he joined the Bureau of Plant Industry of the United States Department of Agriculture and for the next 15 years worked as an agrostologist in the Office of Grass and Forage Plant Investigations. This post involved extensive collecting of native pasture grasses, salt bushes, and cacti in the United States and northern Mexico. Griffiths became especially interested in the use of cacti and other xerophytic plants of the Southwest as emergency livestock feed in times of drought. He was also impressed by their economic importance as ornamental plants and assembled a comprehensive collection of species and varieties at the Plant Introduction Garden at Chico, California, including 3,500 numbers of Opuntia. His last twenty years were devoted to the study of bulbous plants. As senior horticulturalist on the Bureau's bulb production project, he gained a reputation as a specialist in the culture of imported and native bulbs. His contribution to botany is honoured by the grass genus Griffithsochloa G.J. Pierce (= Bouteloua Lag.) and by the eponyms Agropyron griffithsii Scribn. & J.G. Sm. and Atriplex griffithsii Standl. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 04 Mar 2013 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1362400326.80268.YahooMailNeo@web84505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Griffiths article Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 04:32:06 -0800 (PST) Griffiths mentions that even in his time the stocks of this lily were mixed. Evidently people were raising seedlings and passing them off as 'Harrisii'. He also mentions that by raising seedlings of Lilium longiflorum, one got a range of plants among which were examples matching most of the known cultivars.  Jim McKenney From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 04 Mar 2013 07:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:34:44 -0500 A few years ago I was hand pollinating different color variants of Iris fulva. Being a dwarf-ish species, I was crouched down near the ground. Suddenly there was a loud, deep buzzing noise behind my head. How big was this bee?!?!? I was scared to look, but I sure ran away from those flowers fast! Lo & behold it was a ruby-throated humming bird... apparently annoyed that I was messing with his flowers! Okay, so that wasn't about Lilium, but it was my favorite humming bird encounter. :-) Dennis in Cincinnati From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 04 Mar 2013 07:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1362408576.46464.YahooMailNeo@web84506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 06:49:36 -0800 (PST) Hummingbirds here seem to visit every sort of plant in bloom - including lilies. Our usual humming bird is the ruby throat, but there is a rufous hummingbird in residence in nearby northern Virginia this year.  Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <410-22013314151823390@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 10:18:23 -0500 See: Grant and Grant 1968, Columbia Univ. Press "Hummingbirds and Their Flowers" Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USDA 8 From pamela@polson.com Mon, 04 Mar 2013 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <000001ce1900$bd768a80$38639f80$@com> From: "Pamela Harlow" Subject: Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:50:09 -0800 Iain, Although no hummingbirds currently inhabit the Old World, the oldest known hummingbird fossil was found in Germany. Many South African plants attract hummingbirds, and it is possible that they evolved with hummingbirds, now vanished. Similarly, American pronghorns (similar to antelope) run much faster than any extant predator, but until 10 or 11,000 years ago, cheetahs chased them across the North American landscape. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 1:25 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Fw: Avian pollinators - Humming Birds It would be a great help if anyone on PBS could advise me on any of the following please. (1) what the temperature regimen is, if known, that initiates pollinating activity amongst the Nth. Am. Humming Bird species in relation to the genus Lilium ?; (2) do all Humming Bird species function seasonally or selectively as pollinators of native lilies or in conjungtion with other flowering plants?; (3) are there particular Humming Bird species which pollinate lilies, or do they all do so?; (3) have any lily species been noted as preferentially visited, or do they take what they need any old place ?; (5) are all, or any Humming Bird species migratory ? I apologise for my total dumb ignorance about your fascinating wee birdies but I am working on the chapter on pollination + pollen dispersal at present and have become painfully aware how little information is available on this side of our beautiful Blue Planet. Sadly there are no Palaearctic Humming Bird species although we have several remarkable day time / evening flying analogs, which are for example the Humming Bird Hawkmoths - in the genus Macroglossum (Macroglossum stellatarum) and also the Narrowborder Bee Hawkmoth - in the genus Hemaris (Hemaris tityus). Many thanks + fingers crossed, Iain From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Mon, 04 Mar 2013 18:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: Griffiths article Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 17:56:05 -0800 Jim, I guess those who have seen or grown this cultivar( Lilium longiflorus v. Harissii each have their own recollection of what it's supposed to look like, as I have mine. I remember it being a rather tall variety, large flowered, but lots of them, with a somewhat flattened chalice. To combat the height, for pot forcing, an old timer grower told of grinding up foliage of Asparagus plumosus and adding to the potting mix to keep the height somewhat in check. That was the technology at the time. Rick K On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Griffiths mentions that even in his time the stocks of this lily were > mixed. Evidently people were raising seedlings and passing them off as > 'Harrisii'. > He also mentions that by raising seedlings of Lilium longiflorum, one got > a range of plants among which were examples matching most of the known > cultivars. > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From mirrog@yahoo.com Mon, 04 Mar 2013 19:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Griffiths article Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 19:08:36 -0800 Maybe somebody can convert these scans to text. Here are my notes to myself on how I did it: “To scan a page and convert to text: use Custom setting on scanner, with at least 300dpi. Save as tif file. Double-click on the file, which opens it automatically in Microsoft Office Document Imaging. Right-click on image, and rotate to correct orientation. Click on "Send Text to Word" icon. Check text for errors.” It worked great, except that it misread about 1% of the letters. So I had to manually edit the Word file. If you try this on the Griffiths book, it may take you several hours. The payback is vastly reduced file size. Does anybody worry about file size anymore? Small files are nice for emails. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Tue, 05 Mar 2013 12:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <6031BE18F4604FA794A65C4A469CBA45@homepc> From: Subject: Hummingbirds - Lilium Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:57:38 -0000 Heart felt thanks to everyone on this, it has been immensely helpful and appreciated.. Education is a great thing, even for the benighted such as Moi. Iain From piabinha@yahoo.com Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <1362520398.51944.YahooMailNeo@web160506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 13:53:18 -0800 (PST) http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/opinion/sunday/look-carefully-at-those-seeds.html > > > >this is an interesting article about what to consider when choosing a seed vendor... > > >======= >tsuh yang From plantnut@cox.net Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <592CE13C-2FA0-4400-8EBE-5C0A52FBB7EF@cox.net> From: Joseph Kraatz Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:08:33 -0800 This is probably one of the most ridiculous articles I've ever read on PBS. Joe On Mar 5, 2013, at 1:53 PM, piaba wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/opinion/sunday/look-carefully-at-those-seeds.html >> >> >> >> this is an interesting article about what to consider when choosing a seed vendor... >> >> >> ======= >> tsuh yang > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <51366E77.1080504@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:15:19 +1300 Interesting and thought provoking Tsuh. Thank you. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 6/03/2013 10:53 a.m., piaba wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/opinion/sunday/look-carefully-at-those-seeds.html >> >> >> this is an interesting article about what to consider when choosing a seed vendor... >> >> >> ======= >> tsuh yang > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Tue, 05 Mar 2013 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4A03D975-FEA0-47D9-84B0-F5A66265BC43@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:40:51 +1000 I didn't really like the article my self. In my opinion it portrays a lack of healthy gardening knowledge & could portray the wrong message to those wishing to have regenerative gardens..... It is by no means necessary to spray most healthy vegetable seeding heads prior to harvest if the plants are healthy to start with... So I think the comments on this subject were a personal opinion that may not be supported by scientific evidence.. Then there is genetic modification, well that's a high powered issue, the question is "what level of modification is tolerable to most people?" I prefer natural everything but there is good cause to explore GM potential.. Hypothetically speaking, we are seeing dramatic environmental changes at more frequent intervals & perhaps if there was a change that wiped out tomatoes or belladonna lilies, wouldn't it be nice to think we have the technology to ensure the survival of a species or even for implications for something like the only 26 Wollami pines left in the wild, the progeny from this species left over from the ice ages is venerable to root rot & have given disappointing results as a commercial species which could ensure it's survival, so it would be good to think we could modify & save a species that was exterminated by a celestial catastrophe.... But when it comes GM for commercial gain, I think it is not a good thing because it's abused.. Steven : ) On 06/03/2013, at 7:53 AM, piaba wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/opinion/sunday/look-carefully-at-those-seeds.html >> >> >> >> this is an interesting article about what to consider when choosing a seed vendor... >> >> >> ======= >> tsuh yang > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Tue, 05 Mar 2013 23:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1362551132.35727.YahooMailClassic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:25:32 -0800 (PST) Excellent points. I had not considered this. Now I will. Read it in the nick of time, too.   There will always be gardeners who shrug off pesticides. I had a babysitter from Eastern Europe who told me about cities she could not visit for more than a day because they were so polluted. Didn't people continue to live in Chernobyl?  Given the choice, I'd rather not.  I'll take my seeds, too, chemical free, thankyou. --- On Tue, 3/5/13, piaba wrote: From: piaba Subject: [pbs] Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors To: "PBS" Date: Tuesday, March 5, 2013, 4:53 PM http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/opinion/sunday/look-carefully-at-those-seeds.html > > > >this is an interesting article about what to consider when choosing a seed vendor... > > >======= >tsuh yang From plantsman@comcast.net Wed, 06 Mar 2013 00:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <20130306071945.2ADD5E8D25@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Nathan Lange Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 22:47:27 -0800 This opinion piece is just another boring mix of anti-GMO rants and fear mongering "organic" propaganda. There is nothing in this article of any horticultural merit. Nathan From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Wed, 06 Mar 2013 00:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1362555104.94621.YahooMailClassic@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:31:44 -0800 (PST) Go drink a glass of PCBs. Cheers. --- On Wed, 3/6/13, Nathan Lange wrote: From: Nathan Lange Subject: Re: [pbs] Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 1:47 AM This opinion piece is just another boring mix of anti-GMO rants and fear mongering "organic" propaganda.  There is nothing in this article of any horticultural merit. Nathan From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed, 06 Mar 2013 00:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <5136F2E2.5080005@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:40:18 +1300 I don't agree. For one thing to growseed which is of plants which grow well in that areais a suggestion. This article is about bulk growing of seed, this would not apply to our seed growing from our own bulbs. It all depends on how one reads the article. Now I'llwait to get shot down in flames....... Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 6/03/2013 7:47 p.m., Nathan Lange wrote: > This opinion piece is just another boring mix of anti-GMO rants and > fear mongering "organic" propaganda. There is nothing in this > article of any horticultural merit. > > Nathan > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jdbourq@yahoo.co.uk Wed, 06 Mar 2013 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1362573895.62412.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: J. Denys Bourque Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 04:44:55 -0800 (PST) mdfebkfy vrelfi http://www.pescadosolmeda.com/lb/l/qt/rqcy krhskkl ullzeecdz rgwcdxwzv jvsrbghsoox From silkie@frontiernet.net Wed, 06 Mar 2013 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <086601ce1a6f$398c4870$aca4d950$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 05:33:43 -0800 Nathan, Personally I see the piece as similar to discussions on this list about the native habitat of plants. Wet/dry summers, etc. Only in this case the writer is also concerned with how the seed was raised relative to inputs. Perhaps one might call it a pampered versus rugged seed. Evidentially the writer's needs/wants are not the same as yours. Colleen NE California where a snow storm is blowing in -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ina Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:40 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors I don't agree. For one thing to growseed which is of plants which grow well in that areais a suggestion. This article is about bulk growing of seed, this would not apply to our seed growing from our own bulbs. It all depends on how one reads the article. Now I'llwait to get shot down in flames....... Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 6/03/2013 7:47 p.m., Nathan Lange wrote: > This opinion piece is just another boring mix of anti-GMO rants and > fear mongering "organic" propaganda. There is nothing in this article > of any horticultural merit. > > Nathan > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From silkie@frontiernet.net Wed, 06 Mar 2013 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <086701ce1a6f$d91bc190$8b5344b0$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Whats blooming Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 05:38:11 -0800 Yesterday I spied the earliest ever daffodil bloom for this property. March 17 is the usual "normal". Right now a snow storm is blowing in! Colleen NE California Zone 4b to 7 depending on the year and I remember a zone 4 year. From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 06 Mar 2013 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: J. Denys Bourque Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:44:45 +0100 Denys It looks as your computer is hacked don't open this link Roland 2013/3/6 J. Denys Bourque : > mdfebkfy > vrelfi > http://www.pescadosolmeda.com/lb/l/qt/rq > krhskkl > ullzeecdz > rgwcdxwzv > jvsrbghsoox > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Wed, 06 Mar 2013 07:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:18:10 -0500 Chernobyl? Maybe they lived there for a while because they had nowhere to go. It is a deserted place now. I watched a special on one of the channels in Canada a couple of years ago. Cannot remember the exact title but it was about the scientists monitoring the wolf population that moved in. There were a lot of other topics touched upon too. Never mind the "Life After People" speculations on the History Channel. This is real! Eagles nesting in the high-rises, moose bones and boletus mushrooms registering high on the Geiger. The wolves though, seemed healthy enough. No birth defects noted. We do not know much about how resilient nature is!!. On the other hand look at the problems with pollution in China. It must be an eye opener for the population. Does the government care, though? I live in the country, about 30 miles north of Toronto and we get smog from the industrialized East and the Midwest all the time on hot days. Yet, when I have to go to Toronto on such a day I feel the difference. -----Original Message----- From: C.J. Teevan Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 1:25 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Excellent points. I had not considered this. Now I will. Read it in the nick of time, too. There will always be gardeners who shrug off pesticides. I had a babysitter from Eastern Europe who told me about cities she could not visit for more than a day because they were so polluted. Didn't people continue to live in Chernobyl? Given the choice, I'd rather not. I'll take my seeds, too, chemical free, thankyou. --- On Tue, 3/5/13, piaba wrote: From: piaba Subject: [pbs] Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors To: "PBS" Date: Tuesday, March 5, 2013, 4:53 PM http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/opinion/sunday/look-carefully-at-those-seeds.html > > > >this is an interesting article about what to consider when choosing a seed >vendor... > > >======= >tsuh yang _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed, 06 Mar 2013 07:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: J. Denys Bourque/FAO yahoo users Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:45:09 +0000 Hi In message , Bulborum Botanicum writes >Denys >It looks as your computer is hacked >don't open this link Roland, thanks for pointing this out. Denys is now on moderation. From moderating this list and others, it seems to me that yahoo has a particular problem. I've not seen an explanation that offers a solution. If you're on yahoo make sure you have a strong password (and not the default password). A strong password, is something others don't know and can't guess, so for one thing it is long. There is a list out on the web of common passwords - they are a starting point of things to avoid. See: http://tinyurl.com/a7wnmoh -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <410-22013336144522921@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:45:22 -0500 > Subject: [pbs] Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors > > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/opinion/sunday/look-carefully-at-those-see ds.html > > Both Seminis and Syngenta insect protected sweet corn is available to home gardeners from the more sophisticated seed catalogs. One does have to sign a licensing agrrement with Monsanto. The author of the article misinforms her readers. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USDA 8 From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <001601ce1a89$7663d960$632b8c20$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Politeness on the list Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 08:41:30 -0800 Folks, Forgive me for the interruption, but I want to express a personal opinion for a second. I'm speaking as someone who's been on this list for many years, and who has seen other lists self-destruct. This list has been working great lately, and I'd hate to see us screw that up. I think part of making the list work well is that people need to feel free to express their opinions, without intimidation from personal attack or insult. That means disagreement is fine; in fact it's good because often it's how we learn. But personal attacks and insults are not at all fine, in my opinion. Before you post, I recommend that you ask yourself: --Does what I'm writing respond to the ideas, or to the person who posted it? --Am I being respectful to the other folks on the list? --Is this something I would say to someone across the table at a dinner party? --If I'm making a joke or sarcastic comment, will that be clear to someone in another country who's native to a different language? If the answer to any of those questions is no, I recommend that you reword your message. Sincerely, Mike PS: I think the author of the NY Times opinion piece is overthinking the issue, but I feel that way about many of the opinion pieces I see the NY Times. From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Wed, 06 Mar 2013 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4F18D5C4-1693-4D21-B530-AF6BC8E0EC11@gmail.com> From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: Daffodil peak bloom date Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:52:57 -0800 Colleen is noticing her first daffodil bloom today in NE California whereas here in coastal southern California daffodils have been open awhile. In 2009 I started taking photos of one bed of ordinary all- yellow, large-trumpet daffodils in all seasons. There are two varieties in the bed, both from the local hardware store. The foreground ones are slightly smaller and slightly pale, and bloom slightly later. The back ones were sold as King Alfred. Elsewhere in my yard other varieties of daffodil are earlier and later than these. http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/sets/72157632930081083/with/8534796396/ It seems like these daffodils vary quite a bit in their bloom dates within February and March. In the above set of photos I have only included the peak bloom shots. I also record leaf emergence, bud emergence, flowers fading, leaves turning yellow, and dry leaves each year. But those dont make for as pretty a photo subject. :) Last Saturday I attended a California Phenology Project workshop to learn how to observe the timing of seasonal transitions of plants at our local botanic garden. Of the 30 species chosen to focus volunteer effort in monitoring, none are bulbs except a Trillium that does not grow in my area. There was a Sisyrinchium on the long-list that did not make it to the short list. Their volunteers are not as aware of bulb growth stages as people on this mail list. - Gastil Santa Barbara, California maybe zone 9b or 10a. Officially 10a. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <0B7C9090-8B86-4C8D-A2FC-A3021DBF9607@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: 1 Week or 5 Months of bloom. Which would you prefer? Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:18:37 -0600 Dear PBSers, A while back Jim McK noted that his Iris unguicularis growing in a (heated?) cold frame in MD had a glorious display of flowers - a bouquet. Here in Kansas City I grow the same species outdoors in the ground. Every few days when we have some warm days in a row a single flower or two will pop open and surprise us. Here the first flowers began the last week of November and yesterday after nearly 20 inches of snow have melted, it popped open another flower. It was been blooming one by one all this time, maybe once every week or two. Never the show that Jim McK describes. Let me explain that in my climate between Nov and March there is almost nothing in bloom with temps hovering in the low teens and 20s to single digits F. In the last month we have seen some early spring appearances by crocus and snow drops. Often the ONLY thing blooming was a single rich purple I. unguicularis. So given this choice - one glorious bouquet - or 5 months- maybe more to come - of 1 or 2 flowers which would you take? I know my choice- trouble free, repeat bloom and color during the LONG winter. Just curious All or once or spread out flowering? Best Jim and hoping for a warm up now that the snow is gone. From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <513791BB.6010406@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: J. Denys Bourque/FAO yahoo users Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 07:58:03 +1300 Here in NZ thousands of Yahoo users through Telecomwhich uses Yahoo for email, were hacked like that. I had not realised it was outside NZ too. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 7/03/2013 3:45 a.m., David Pilling wrote: > Hi > > Denys > It looks as your computer is hacked > don't open this link > Roland, thanks for pointing this out. Denys is now on moderation. > > From moderating this list and others, it seems to me that yahoo has a > particular problem. I've not seen an explanation that offers a solution. > > If you're on yahoo make sure you have a strong password (and not the > default password). > > A strong password, is something others don't know and can't guess, so > for one thing it is long. There is a list out on the web of common > passwords - they are a starting point of things to avoid. > > See: > > http://tinyurl.com/a7wnmoh > > > > From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <6xWRdqJIH5NRFwiH@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: email hacks Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 18:58:16 +0000 Hi, Sorry for being off topic again... minutes after ranting about yahoo accounts being easy to hack, a spam email to the list from a hacked gmail account appeared. This email had a link in, visit the link and you are told that your email login is required to visit an auction site... Obviously it is a bad idea to enter such information (the site name and the URL do not match). -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From christian.lachaud@gmail.com Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Christian Lachaud Subject: Politeness on the list Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 20:06:25 +0100 Dear All, When I read the advised article about seeds production problems, it raised in my mind questions I had never thought about. After reading contradiction in the thread, I still have some doubts that some of the points exposed in this article weren't good points. Wouldn't it be possible that plants which were selected for producing rapidly something of economic interest (and they need not be GMO or hybrid engineered for that) - which usually concerns only one part of the life cycle of the plant - may have been misselected for characteristics related to other parts of their life cycle ? I guess that farmers select their plants for their global interest, i.e. so that they produce good crop plus multiply correctly, without knowing the mecanisms of selection involved, from a simple and pragmatic perspective. I guess that the ideal situation, when they get a remarkable strain, is that this strain also reproduces well, but is it always the case ? Sometimes, will the advantage discovered by chance not come with a terrible weakness somewhere else ? And if the advantage is so remarkable, wouldn't the farmer chose to keep the strain despite other negative characteristics ? If the new strain has a weakness in its ability to keep good development beyond the stage it is usually harvested, for instance, more work in the selection process surely needs to be done, but is it always possible ? If the selection pressure was only placed on one aspect of the plant's development, maybe at the cost of weaknesses beyond this specific part of interest in the life cycle of the plant, maybe causing a plant to be prone to diseases as suggested by the author, wouldn't it be logical to sustain seeds production with any means, including chemicals ? Wouldn't this practice, in turn, result in the selection of strains requiring specific chemicals at one point of their development because they got filtered that way through the years (= those receiving the chemicals produce more seeds until the point that only these are found in the population) ?? This is all speculation : it looks sound to me from a logical perspective, but I may not have the correct arguments to oppose ? Therefore, let me turn this set of arguments into a set questions addressed to your expert community. I will be pleased to read your comments (I hope). Kind regards. *Dr. Christian M. Lachaud**, PhD* _________________ Lachaud, C. M. (2012).* **La Bible du Safranier. Tout Savoir sur le Crocus Sativus et sur le Safran.** *In Libro Veritas, France.* *258 pages.* *ISBN: 978-2-7466-4412-0 Consulter la fiche détaillée sur le site de l'éditeur : http://www.ilv-edition.com/librairie/bible-safranier-tout-savoir-sur-crocus-sativus-sur-safran.html From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1362596804.32793.YahooMailNeo@web84502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: 1 Week or 5 Months of bloom. Which would you prefer? Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:06:44 -0800 (PST) I don't know where Jim W. got the idea that my Iris unguicularis give only "one glorious bouquet" of bloom during the season. More than once I've posted the observation that my plants start in November and continue sometimes into early April. There are times when only one flower is open, there are times when there are several. Occasionally there are four or five open at once. And this year, for the first time here, Iris lazica has been blooming freely with Iris unguicularis. It remains to be seen how long the show will continue with Iris lazica, but the blooms have been appearing one after another for weeks. One day recently there were five open.  BTW, in my book a "heated cold frame" is not a cold frame, it's something else. The only heat my cold frames get is that provided by the sun and by their proximity to the house foundation. For years these cold frames have housed thriving (OK, sometimes not so thriving, but at least alive)  Nerine, Massonia, Cymbidium goeringii, Chilean Tropaeolum (although it's a stretch to say that these are thriving - but that has more to do with heat than cold), Ambrosina, Pancratium, Amaryllis belladonna (a thick mat of leaves but no blooms yet), the cactus Mammillaria plumosa, Asparagus setaceus,  the unusual asclepiad Brachystelma, various marginally hardy gesneriads,  Freesia viridis and lots of other interesting odds and ends.  So when Jim W. asks "  So given this choice - one glorious bouquet - or 5 months- maybe more to come - of 1 or 2 flowers which would you take?" I'm here to say that that is a false dichotomy: one can have both. In other words, I get both the occasional bouquet and the more usual blooms trickling in throughout the winter and early spring. So with these plants I can eat my cake and have it, too! Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where last night's prediction of up to a foot of snow has so far panned out to be snow falling and melting all day with no significant accumulation. I took a chance and left the cold frames wide open last night - and have no regrets today.    From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <+SegVIKq76NRFwQl@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Crocus moabiticus bulbs Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 21:02:34 +0000 Hi, The following message came to the PBS website. >My wife is crazy over >fall booming crocus. She has looked and written several letters and >phone calls looking for Crocus moabiticus bulbs. Would you know anyone >who might have some bulbs for sale, I would pay big bucks for them! >Thanks, Randall -- Replies direct to: Randall Folmer Thank you. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From idavide@sbcglobal.net Wed, 06 Mar 2013 15:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <1362610274.80039.YahooMailRC@web181502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:51:14 -0800 (PST) I have seen a great deal of emotion and spleen vented on both sides of the GM issue.  My question is: if GM vegetables require less insecticide; can produce equal nutrition at lower cost, why are they a bad thing?  I can understand that if the GM variety crosses with a wild plant, the altered gene(s) can escape into the wild.  That raises two questions: if the GM plant were sterile, what would be wrong with it?  And if an altered gene were to escape, would that necessarily be a bad thing – evolution is constantly altering, sequestering and incorporating new genetic material in species’ gene pools. David E _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From idavide@sbcglobal.net Wed, 06 Mar 2013 15:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <1362611760.10833.YahooMailRC@web181504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Politeness on the list Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:16:00 -0800 (PST) In your scenario, the altered plants require chemicals to outproduce their peers.  Lacking the chemicals (as in the wild), they no longer out-compete.  At his point, it is their other strengths/weaknesses which will determine their success.  However, I assumt that the constant introduction of altered genes into the wild population from the cultivated crops will eventually push the wild population to 100% altered genes.  That doesn't mean they'll go extinct absent the chemicals, but it is a very good point. David E. ________________________________ From: Christian Lachaud Wouldn't this practice, in turn, result in the selection of strains requiring specific chemicals at one point of their development because they got filtered that way through the years (= those receiving the chemicals produce more seeds until the point that only these are found in the population) ?? This is all speculation : it looks sound to me from a logical perspective, but I may not have the correct arguments to oppose ? Therefore, let me turn this set of arguments into a set questions addressed to your expert community. I will be pleased to read your comments (I hope). Kind regards. *Dr. Christian M. Lachaud**, PhD* _________________ Lachaud, C. M. (2012).* **La Bible du Safranier. Tout Savoir sur le Crocus Sativus et sur le Safran.** *In Libro Veritas, France.* *258 pages.* *ISBN: 978-2-7466-4412-0 Consulter la fiche détaillée sur le site de l'éditeur : http://www.ilv-edition.com/librairie/bible-safranier-tout-savoir-sur-crocus-sativus-sur-safran.html From plantsman@comcast.net Wed, 06 Mar 2013 16:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <20130306235508.AD2EFE8BB2@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Nathan Lange Subject: Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 15:55:05 -0800 Colleen, You are correct. The writer's needs/wants are definitely not the same as mine. Instead of trying to promote and profit from a series of "organic" gardening books, I was looking for some actual horticultural information. There was none to be found. In an article supposedly about selecting seed sources, I think the author could have at least mentioned something that is known to be true for seed germination (or even the word "germination" for that matter). For example, with many species, seed size and seed density matters. For at least the past several decades, seed companies have been sorting vegetable and annual seed based on density for improved and uniform germination rates in commercial plug production (search Google with the words "plug" and "seed" if you are unfamiliar with plug production). Most gardeners don't grow plugs but most do care about good seed germination especially if one is purchasing an expensive packet of just five or ten F1 hybrid seeds. Getting back to the author's assertions, which plants do you think will produce bigger, denser seeds? Well fed conventionally grown plants with greatly reduced insect and disease pressure or plants that had a significant portion of their limited resources consumed or allocated to pest infestation? The science is already in on this one. By any objective measure, the so called "coddled/pampered" seeds are the "rugged" seeds. Do any seed companies sort their seed for home gardeners based on density? I don't know and neither do any of the readers of this work of science fiction in question. But then, I'm probably biased because I believe in prenatal care too. Nathan >Only in this case the >writer is also concerned with how the seed was raised relative to inputs. >Perhaps one might call it a pampered versus rugged seed. Evidentially the >writer's needs/wants are not the same as yours. > >Colleen >NE California where a snow storm is blowing in > >-----Original Message----- >From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >On Behalf Of Ina >Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:40 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Fw: Fwd: opinion piece on seed vendors > >I don't agree. For one thing to growseed which is of plants which grow well >in that areais a suggestion. This article is about bulk growing of seed, >this would not apply to our seed growing from our own bulbs. It all depends >on how one reads the article. > >Now I'llwait to get shot down in flames....... > >Ina > >Ina Crossley >Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > >On 6/03/2013 7:47 p.m., Nathan Lange wrote: > > This opinion piece is just another boring mix of anti-GMO rants and > > fear mongering "organic" propaganda. There is nothing in this article > > of any horticultural merit. > > > > Nathan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jdbourq@yahoo.co.uk Thu, 07 Mar 2013 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1362616084.51416.YahooMailNeo@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: J. Denys Bourque/FAO yahoo users Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 16:28:04 -0800 (PST) Sorry for the junk mail sent without my knowledge. I've re-scanned my system, so this shouldn't happen again.   J. Denys Bourque Saint-Jacques, NB   CANADA >________________________________ > From: Ina >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:58:03 PM >Subject: Re: [pbs] J. Denys Bourque/FAO yahoo users > >Here in NZ thousands of Yahoo users through Telecomwhich uses Yahoo for >email, were hacked like that.  I had not realised it was outside NZ too. > >Ina > >Ina Crossley >Auckland New Zealand  Zone 10 > >On 7/03/2013 3:45 a.m., David Pilling wrote: >> Hi >> >> Denys >> It looks as your computer is hacked >> don't open this link >> Roland, thanks for pointing this out. Denys is now on moderation. >> >>  From moderating this list and others, it seems to me that yahoo has a >> particular problem. I've not seen an explanation that offers a solution. >> >> If you're on yahoo make sure you have a strong password (and not the >> default password). >> >> A strong password, is something others don't know and can't guess, so >> for one thing it is long. There is a list out on the web of common >> passwords - they are a starting point of things to avoid. >> >> See: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/a7wnmoh >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Wed, 06 Mar 2013 19:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Steven Subject: opinion piece on seed vendors Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 12:31:11 +1000 Evoking questions coming out on such a controversial subject.. The trouble is, there is no fool proof 100% guarantee that a sterile crop will not have one or two mutated or reverted fertile plants... We see this commonly with some bulbs in a similar context, for example Zepranthres Grandiflilora. So I think there will always be some risks with GM seed crops. As we have already seen on documentaries where GM corn has aledagely, accidentally & unexpectedly pollinated non GM crops, it would be devastating if cross pollination progresses to native corn in somewhere like South America.. Or barley type grasses world wide... Another question that I ask my self is, what are the potential dangers of GM seed that is designed to be glyphosate resistant, having such genes that it may mutate to quickly become resistant to other chemical controll poisons.. ??? Perhaps seeds from these plants will then out compete everything in areas that are regularly sprayed like road edges & could spread across vast areas quite easily.. Steven : ) On 07/03/2013, at 8:51 AM, David Ehrlich wrote: > I have seen a great deal of emotion and spleen vented on both sides of the GM > issue. My question is: if GM vegetables require less insecticide; can produce > equal nutrition at lower cost, why are they a bad thing? I can understand that > if the GM variety crosses with a wild plant, the altered gene(s) can escape into > the wild. That raises two questions: if the GM plant were sterile, what would > be wrong with it? And if an altered gene were to escape, would that necessarily > be a bad thing – evolution is constantly altering, sequestering and > incorporating new genetic material in species’ gene pools. > David E > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Wed, 06 Mar 2013 19:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <46CB7160-3BD5-47BE-97C4-A9ABB572CE48@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Politeness on the list Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 12:35:26 +1000 Your questions are wonderful & valued reminder Michael Steven : ) On 07/03/2013, at 2:41 AM, "Michael Mace" wrote: > Folks, > > Forgive me for the interruption, but I want to express a personal opinion > for a second. I'm speaking as someone who's been on this list for many > years, and who has seen other lists self-destruct. This list has been > working great lately, and I'd hate to see us screw that up. > > I think part of making the list work well is that people need to feel free > to express their opinions, without intimidation from personal attack or > insult. That means disagreement is fine; in fact it's good because often > it's how we learn. But personal attacks and insults are not at all fine, in > my opinion. > > Before you post, I recommend that you ask yourself: > > --Does what I'm writing respond to the ideas, or to the person who posted > it? > --Am I being respectful to the other folks on the list? > --Is this something I would say to someone across the table at a dinner > party? > --If I'm making a joke or sarcastic comment, will that be clear to someone > in another country who's native to a different language? > > If the answer to any of those questions is no, I recommend that you reword > your message. > > Sincerely, > > Mike > > PS: I think the author of the NY Times opinion piece is overthinking the > issue, but I feel that way about many of the opinion pieces I see the NY > Times. > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu, 07 Mar 2013 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: Watsonia doesn't bloom Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 16:40:15 +0000 Hi, To explain, the PBS website has a contact form for admin matters. But people occasionally post questions which need the wisdom of the list to answer. The question below came in yesterday. If anyone with an answer posts it here, Bonnie can watch the online archive. ------> Dear Friends, I can't get my watsonia to bloom! I've been patient for years and have lots of foliage and never any flowers. We fertilize, water, cajole, shame and beg, and NEVER ANY FLOWERS! Can you help?? Thanks so much, Bonnie Holt (bholt200@gmail.com) -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From rbartontx@yahoo.com Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1362680387.74133.YahooMailNeo@web124503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rodney Barton Subject: Ferraria thanks! Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 10:19:47 -0800 (PST) Thanks to the collective wisdom of the list I have Ferraria crispa in bloom. I repotted intact chains of "bulbs" about 5 in. deep in 5 gal. pots using a mix that was mostly sand. Only one of five plants has a bloom stalk but I didn't expected any this first season. The one stalk has multiple bud positions. Thanks! Rod, North Central Texas, USA From dkramb@badbear.com Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Ferraria thanks! Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:28:11 -0500 Congratulations!! Maybe the rest will be in bloom for the AIS convention! :-) Dennis in Cincinnati On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Rodney Barton wrote: > Thanks to the collective wisdom of the list I have Ferraria crispa in > bloom. I repotted intact chains of "bulbs" about 5 in. deep in 5 gal. pots > using a mix that was mostly sand. Only one of five plants has a bloom stalk > but I didn't expected any this first season. The one stalk has multiple bud > positions. > > Thanks! > Rod, North Central Texas, USA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5138E62C.9010602@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: J. Denys Bourque/FAO yahoo users Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:10:36 +1300 Here in NZ the ones who had this problem, had to put in a new password for their email. As the problem was with Yahoo, not their computer. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 7/03/2013 1:28 p.m., J. Denys Bourque wrote: > Sorry for the junk mail sent without my knowledge. > I've re-scanned my system, so this shouldn't happen again. > > J. Denys Bourque > Saint-Jacques, NB CANADA > > > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Ina >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:58:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] J. Denys Bourque/FAO yahoo users >> >> Here in NZ thousands of Yahoo users through Telecomwhich uses Yahoo for >> email, were hacked like that. I had not realised it was outside NZ too. >> >> Ina >> >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> On 7/03/2013 3:45 a.m., David Pilling wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> Denys >>> It looks as your computer is hacked >>> don't open this link >>> Roland, thanks for pointing this out. Denys is now on moderation. >>> >>> From moderating this list and others, it seems to me that yahoo has a >>> particular problem. I've not seen an explanation that offers a solution. >>> >>> If you're on yahoo make sure you have a strong password (and not the >>> default password). >>> >>> A strong password, is something others don't know and can't guess, so >>> for one thing it is long. There is a list out on the web of common >>> passwords - they are a starting point of things to avoid. >>> >>> See: >>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/a7wnmoh >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From rbartontx@yahoo.com Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1362684294.59078.YahooMailNeo@web124506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rodney Barton Subject: Ferraria thanks! Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 11:24:54 -0800 (PST) I do hope to have at least something interesting to bring to the convention. Rod >________________________________ > From: Dennis Kramb >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 12:28 PM >Subject: Re: [pbs] Ferraria thanks! > >Congratulations!!  Maybe the rest will be in bloom for the AIS convention! >:-) > >Dennis in Cincinnati > > > >On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Rodney Barton wrote: > >> Thanks to the collective wisdom of the list I have Ferraria crispa in >> bloom. I repotted intact chains of "bulbs" about 5 in. deep in 5 gal. pots >> using a mix that was mostly sand. Only one of five plants has a bloom stalk >> but I didn't expected any this first season. The one stalk has multiple bud >> positions. >> >> Thanks! >> Rod, North Central Texas, USA >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Watsonia doesn't bloom Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 20:55:38 +0000 Well, at least some location info to start with! From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: Watsonia doesn't bloom Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:01:55 +0000 Hi, In message , Alberto Castillo writes >Well, at least some location info to start with! ".the clumps are in the sun and we have clay soil, tending to dry most of the year, tho' I water by hand occaisionally. B.  I am in Southern California." Original message... =================== Dear Friends, I can't get my watsonia to bloom! I've been patient for years and have lots of foliage and never any flowers. We fertilize, water, cajole, shame and beg, and NEVER ANY FLOWERS! Can you help?? -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Watsonia doesn't bloom Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:14:38 +0000 If in S. California you should win all the golds at Shows! The problem is lack of water. They probably dessicate too much losing substance during the summer. This, providing it is one of the winter cycle watsonias. > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:01:55 +0000 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > From: pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk > Subject: Re: [pbs] Watsonia doesn't bloom > > Hi, > > In message , Alberto > Castillo writes > >Well, at least some location info to start with! > > ".the clumps are in the sun and we have clay soil, tending to dry most > of the year, tho' I water by hand > occaisionally. > B. I am in Southern California." > > Original message... > > =================== > > Dear Friends, I can't get my watsonia to bloom! I've been patient for > years and have lots of foliage and never any flowers. We fertilize, > water, cajole, shame and beg, and NEVER ANY FLOWERS! Can you help?? > > > -- > David Pilling > email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk > web: http://www.davidpilling.net > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Chad.Schroter@sandisk.com Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <431F4FF83D53804882635BB30D7AC05207A731B9@SACMBXIP01.sdcorp.global.sandisk.com> From: Chad Schroter Subject: Watsonia doesn't bloom Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 21:06:01 +0000 I had some which were purchased from a local nursery, marketed as " California Watzonias". They were winter growers, and had relatively narrow foliage (1/2 -3/4") and smallish corms but grew tall 24-36", they increased but never bloomed in 10 years or so before I shovel pruned them. I probably have 10+ or more other species and hybrids which all bloom every year, and most get some limited summer water. Chad in Los Gatos CA Zone 9 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 12:15 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Watsonia doesn't bloom If in S. California you should win all the golds at Shows! The problem is lack of water. They probably dessicate too much losing substance during the summer. This, providing it is one of the winter cycle watsonias. > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:01:55 +0000 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > From: pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk > Subject: Re: [pbs] Watsonia doesn't bloom > > Hi, > > In message , Alberto > Castillo writes > >Well, at least some location info to start with! > > ".the clumps are in the sun and we have clay soil, tending to dry most > of the year, tho' I water by hand > occaisionally. > B. I am in Southern California." > > Original message... > > =================== > > Dear Friends, I can't get my watsonia to bloom! I've been patient for > years and have lots of foliage and never any flowers. We fertilize, > water, cajole, shame and beg, and NEVER ANY FLOWERS! Can you help?? > > > -- > David Pilling > email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk > web: http://www.davidpilling.net > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________ PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only for the use of the designated recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by telephone or e-mail (as shown above) immediately and destroy any and all copies of this message in your possession (whether hard copies or electronically stored copies). From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:14:46 +0000 Hi, I was replanting lily bulbs yesterday when I noticed some larvae apparently nibbling at them, see this photo: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk/mysterybugs.jpg I'd be grateful if anyone knows what they are. The 1 pound coin they are crawling on is around an inch in diameter. Too big for fungus gnats and vine weevil look different. They are dark brown to black. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sun, 10 Mar 2013 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <513CADE5.7000801@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Telos Rare Bulbs Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:59:33 -0700 Dear All: The web site for 2013 is completed. There will be additional changes throughout the year, but it is mostly done. Please don't ask me to reserve bulbs. I don't do this even for regular customers, and also, PLEASE .... don't send e-mails asking when a bulb will be available. I have listed some bulbs as 'not available yet' meaning they are in the works but I don't know when I will decide they are mature enough to list. I am totally swamped with e-mails like this, and I am just one person with greenhouses full of bulbs to take care of. I can't spend my day answering these kind of e-mails. I list such bulbs now because it is easier for me, as far as reformatting a page is concerned, to put them in now and just add a price later. Otherwise I am stuck with reformatting an entire page when I decide to list them, which will probably occur when I am at my busiest. I am not trying to lure people on to the web site (I have been accused of this!). Thank you for your patience. Best regard, Diana Telos From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:17:15 -0700 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 17:48:28 +0100 If it wouldn't have a black head i'd say earthworm. Maybe you can grow them to adult. Regards, Janos Z5a, Hungary From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: Telos Rare Bulbs Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:29:09 -0700 Speaking of being lured in... I just came in from the garden where I noticed my tiny patch of Moraea tripetala, planted fall 2011 from Telos, have many buds forming. Last year their show was overshadowed by the purple bee-buzzing cloud of abundant Tropaeolum hookerianum ssp. austropurpureum bloom. But this year my Tropaeolumn is taking the year off, as Diana will attest they do sometimes. All the way across the garden, from where I sit at the keyboard, I can see the giant purple clusters on long stems of the Dichelostemma capitatum I ordered from Telos last year. They smell strongly of honey and are now in their third week of bloom. Near me, on the porch is the Lachenalia from 2011, blooming its indescribable mix of colors. This one taught me I was using the wrong potting mix, as it did not dry sufficiently last summer. The Oxalis fragrans (not a species, just a name) is just a cushion of leaves now but all last autumn it was covered with flowers opening in the late afternoon and evening, so fragrant even my husband could smell them. Unlike most bulb nurseries, Telos is in a climate similar to my own. Diana researched which crocus could persist without a cold winter. I am growing a couple Crocus species from Telos which worked in her climate so I am optimistic they will be as pretty next year as they were this year. Growing bulbs from seed is slow and tricky. Before I tried seeds, I ordered bloom sized corms, bulbs, and tubers from Telos. And I have learned much from growing each species as a mature plant. Sometimes the lesson is not what I expected. Mistakes have taught me more than my successes, and have pushed me to learn more, often from PBS members. I have learned how to look at a plant, seeing features I never thought of before, like leaf cross-section and margins of bracts. It feels indulgent to plop a mature bulb in the ground and get instant flowers. But those blooms are what lured me in to seed germination and taxonomy. So take care browsing the Telos catalog... you might get inspired or set off on an unexpected journey. - Gastil Santa Barbara, California where the Ipheion uniflorum has just hit peak bloom today From alanidae@gmail.com Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 18:42:02 -0400 I can't help you at all with what type of beetle those are but those are definitely some sort of beetle or Coleoptera larva., That rules out all flies, butterflies, moths, and true bugs but not weevils even if they are a different species from vine weevils or some other species of beetle all together. all the best' Alani United States On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 11:14 AM, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > > I was replanting lily bulbs yesterday when I noticed some larvae > apparently nibbling at them, see this photo: > > http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk/mysterybugs.jpg > > I'd be grateful if anyone knows what they are. The 1 pound coin they are > crawling on is around an inch in diameter. Too big for fungus gnats and > vine weevil look different. They are dark brown to black. > > > > -- > David Pilling > email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk > web: http://www.davidpilling.net > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Alani From puppincuff@cox.net Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <20130311005642.R7D7E.437520.imail@fed1rmwml113> From: Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 17:56:42 -0700 They're beetle larvae,possibly click beetle (Elateridae) ---- David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > > I was replanting lily bulbs yesterday when I noticed some larvae > apparently nibbling at them, see this photo: > > http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk/mysterybugs.jpg > > I'd be grateful if anyone knows what they are. The 1 pound coin they are > crawling on is around an inch in diameter. Too big for fungus gnats and > vine weevil look different. They are dark brown to black. > > > > -- > David Pilling > email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk > web: http://www.davidpilling.net > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 20:24:37 -0700 Hi David, I would say that these are fly larvae (no legs and their general translucence). As hard as I look, I can't find legs, which exclude them from being beetles. All beetles will have six little legs to the front. Flies, wasps, and butterfiles/moths don't have legs, although they may have protuberances called "prolegs". Nhu On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 5:56 PM, wrote: > > I'd be grateful if anyone knows what they are. > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Mon, 11 Mar 2013 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <513DB872.9050203@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID wanted Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:56:50 +1300 I came across this photo on Facebook and wonder what it is. It came from Papua New Guinea. https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5854036846739581010 Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 12:27:14 +0000 Hi, Thank you for your replies, which gave me some interesting things to do a Google image search for. To the naked eye these grubs are quite matt, dark brown to black. This made me think they were dead, but they moved. The flash on my camera gave them a translucent appearance. I have non-flash photos if anyone is interested. They don't have appendages, which many of the larvae I looked at on the web do. Having failed to find anything that looks quite like this, yes it would have been interesting to seal them in a bag and see what came out (plot of horror film). I'm not inclined to retrieve them from my 'green waste bin' even for science. As well as the suggestions above, I also looked on Google for the common insects I see around, centipedes, wood lice. Unlike vine weevil (which is the chief reason I was picking my way through pots of lily bulbs) these are not common. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From molly22@optusnet.com.au Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: From: molly22@optusnet.com.au Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:43:47 +1100 You have frozen my computer and apart from my emails, I cannot do anything. I am getting all your forum or personal messages between your members! Please FIX WHATEVER SOMEONE HAS DONE!   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pacific Bulb Society" To:"Pacific Bulb Society" Cc: Sent:Mon, 11 Mar 2013 12:27:14 +0000 Subject:Re: [pbs] help identifying mystery larvae Hi, Thank you for your replies, which gave me some interesting things to do a Google image search for. To the naked eye these grubs are quite matt, dark brown to black. This made me think they were dead, but they moved. The flash on my camera gave them a translucent appearance. I have non-flash photos if anyone is interested. They don't have appendages, which many of the larvae I looked at on the web do. Having failed to find anything that looks quite like this, yes it would have been interesting to seal them in a bag and see what came out (plot of horror film). I'm not inclined to retrieve them from my 'green waste bin' even for science. As well as the suggestions above, I also looked on Google for the common insects I see around, centipedes, wood lice. Unlike vine weevil (which is the chief reason I was picking my way through pots of lily bulbs) these are not common. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ------------------------- Email sent using Optus Webmail _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From molly22@optusnet.com.au Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: From: molly22@optusnet.com.au Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:48:02 +1100 I tried to join pbs and for the last hour or so, I amgetting all yuor forum or private pbs messages.  I can only use my email. You HAVE FROZEN MY COMPUTER> PLEASE FIX IT!  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pacific Bulb Society" To:"Pacific Bulb Society" Cc: Sent:Mon, 11 Mar 2013 12:27:14 +0000 Subject:Re: [pbs] help identifying mystery larvae Hi, Thank you for your replies, which gave me some interesting things to do a Google image search for. To the naked eye these grubs are quite matt, dark brown to black. This made me think they were dead, but they moved. The flash on my camera gave them a translucent appearance. I have non-flash photos if anyone is interested. They don't have appendages, which many of the larvae I looked at on the web do. Having failed to find anything that looks quite like this, yes it would have been interesting to seal them in a bag and see what came out (plot of horror film). I'm not inclined to retrieve them from my 'green waste bin' even for science. As well as the suggestions above, I also looked on Google for the common insects I see around, centipedes, wood lice. Unlike vine weevil (which is the chief reason I was picking my way through pots of lily bulbs) these are not common. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ------------------------- Email sent using Optus Webmail _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:02:51 +0100 Hi Molly maybe there is a problem with your computer try to download superantispyware see link below install the free version and run the program this will take some time and restart your computer maybe your problems are over then Roland http://www.superantispyware.com/downloadfile.html?productid=SUPERANTISPYWAREFREE 2013/3/11 : I tried to join pbs and for the last hour or so, I amgetting all yuor forum or private pbs messages. I can only use my email. You HAVE FROZEN MY COMPUTER> PLEASE FIX IT! R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 From russell@odysseybulbs.com Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20130311134656.3BB1FE8AA8@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Odyssey Bulbs - commercial announcement Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:46:53 -0400 Our 2013 list is on line at www.odysseybulbs.com. Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com From alanidae@gmail.com Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:31:12 -0400 Nhu you are so correct! I so convinced myself by the head shape and structures I overlooked the missing legs. Good call of course. I am generally looking at more wormy looking fly larvae . Better that stop describing that work now for everyone else. :-) Alani From xerantheum@gmail.com Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: what's blooming week of 3/11/2013 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:11:35 -0700 Hi bulb lovers, Spring is here in coastal northern California. The South African plants are starting to really pick up and have been putting on a show for the last few weeks. We start with Geissorhiza radians, always a lovely thing to behold. These were grown from Silverhill seeds. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8546686825/ Lewisia brachycalyx is doing much better this year. It will be a number of years before it gets large enough to produce a nice and large ring of flowers like you see searching for this species on the web. This was grown from Ron Radko seeds. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8546686147/ Tropaeolum tricolor is fr me the easiest of the Chilean tropaeolums. It comes back every year and the tubers even multiply a little. Some rotted last year but one of these days I will build up enough stock to have a gigantic show. Or...I could spend some money at Telos Rare Bulbs, which is where this tuber first came from. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8547783020/ Hesperantha bachmanii can be brought to flowering in the second year from seeds. Build up enough corms for a lovely show. They open in the evening and has the fragrance of tuberose (Polianthes tuberosa). I can't grow tuberose because it's too cold here, but this makes a lovely substitute. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8546685635/ Gladiolus quadrangularis, also came from Silverhill seeds some years ago. A small but pretty plant. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8547782482/ What's blooming in YOUR garden? Share with us! Nhu Berkeley, CA From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1363025041.28306.YahooMailClassic@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: what's blooming week of 3/11/2013 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Down here in Los Angeles, I've got nearly everything in bloom it seems. -- Gladiolus alatus -- Gladiolus lilaceous -- Gladiolus cunonius -- Gladiolus griseus -- Sparaxis elegans -- Sparaxis pillansi (two years from seed) -- Ferraria crispa -- Moraea atropunctata -- Several Babiana -- Hesperantha vaginata -- Many Lachenalia -- Romulea elegans and others -- Several Oxalis -- Several Freesia Its a little overwhelming. Stuff is popping everywhere and I can't keep up. At least the California natives are waiting, though Allium haematochiton is blooming. --- On Mon, 3/11/13, Nhu Nguyen wrote: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: [pbs] what's blooming week of 3/11/2013 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Monday, March 11, 2013, 10:11 AM Hi bulb lovers, Spring is here in coastal northern California. The South African plants are starting to really pick up and have been putting on a show for the last few weeks. We start with Geissorhiza radians, always a lovely thing to behold. These were grown from Silverhill seeds. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8546686825/ Lewisia brachycalyx is doing much better this year. It will be a number of years before it gets large enough to produce a nice and large ring of flowers like you see searching for this species on the web. This was grown from Ron Radko seeds. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8546686147/ Tropaeolum tricolor is fr me the easiest of the Chilean tropaeolums. It comes back every year and the tubers even multiply a little. Some rotted last year but one of these days I will build up enough stock to have a gigantic show. Or...I could spend some money at Telos Rare Bulbs, which is where this tuber first came from. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8547783020/ Hesperantha bachmanii can be brought to flowering in the second year from seeds. Build up enough corms for a lovely show. They open in the evening and has the fragrance of tuberose (Polianthes tuberosa). I can't grow tuberose because it's too cold here, but this makes a lovely substitute. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8546685635/ Gladiolus quadrangularis, also came from Silverhill seeds some years ago. A small but pretty plant. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/8547782482/ What's blooming in YOUR garden? Share with us! Nhu Berkeley, CA From gardenpt@aol.com Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CFECA968F9D056-D70-4A13E@webmail-m300.sysops.aol.com> From: gardenpt@aol.com Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Tough to say if they have legs or not. But I see what appears to be a dark head capsule. If so, they aren't flies. A question: Were they that wet/moist when you found them? Or did you tidy them up for the photo shoot? Jean in Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: David Pilling To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sun, Mar 10, 2013 8:16 am Subject: [pbs] help identifying mystery larvae Hi, I was replanting lily bulbs yesterday when I noticed some larvae apparently nibbling at them, see this photo: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk/mysterybugs.jpg I'd be grateful if anyone knows what they are. The 1 pound coin they are crawling on is around an inch in diameter. Too big for fungus gnats and vine weevil look different. They are dark brown to black. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From totototo@telus.net Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <513DDEC5.8846.3ED7@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:40:21 -0700 This spring, my crocus flowers have been eaten by some unknown critter. The flower buds are nibbled down to next to nothing, but the foliage is intact. Other flowers affected include Cyclamen coum, where the entire flower and calyx are neatly nipped off, and some anemones. In many cases, there are fragments of the flower scattered on the soil below. Potential malefactors: birds deer squirrels rats mice slugs earwigs Initially I thought it was slugs, but a scattering of slug bait yielded no dead ones. There are deer around, but I've seen no evidence of them lately. Only one squirrel in residence that I know of. Live traps baited with peanut butter haven't caught anything yet, but those can sometimes take weeks to catch a rodent. I've been in this house nearly 25 years and never seen damage like this before. Suggestions? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:07:36 +0000 Hi, In message <8CFECA968F9D056-D70-4A13E@webmail-m300.sysops.aol.com>, gardenpt@aol.com writes >A question: Were they that wet/moist when you found them? Or did you >tidy them up for the photo shoot? They were in slightly damp soil between the bulb scales. I'd dumped most of the soil from the pots a few weeks ago. I washed the soil off them before the photo, which is why they are wet in it. So no, they were not that wet when I found them. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:27:25 -0700 Hi Rodger, I noticed something ate three crocuses last week and did not eat any foliage, or any neighboring flowers. I also suspected slugs, baited with Sluggo, and got no dead slugs. These crocus were already protected under a 1/4 inch wire mesh at the time they were eaten so that rules out birds and large critters. (The purpose of the mesh was shade.) They only ate the petals and left the anthers and stigma bare. I can only add to the mystery, not solve it. - Gastil From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <07C7E05E-9D61-41AE-B2E9-24F02CC34EB9@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:34:26 -0700 On 11-Mar-13, at 1:40 PM, Rodger Whitlock wrote: > This spring, my crocus flowers have been eaten by some unknown > critter. The > flower buds are nibbled down to next to nothing, but the foliage is > intact. > Other flowers affected include Cyclamen coum, where the entire > flower and calyx > are neatly nipped off, Deer have eaten some of my crocus flowers. I made the mistake of putting pots of them on a nose high stand beside my front door. They were meant to appeal to visitors, but not those particular ones. Cyclamen in some areas of the garden are now just bare stems sticking up, and Iris lazica has lost all its flowers. One good thing, though. The deer love leaves of Spanish bluebells. I spend a long time every year digging out hundreds of them. There are still a few thousand yet to dig, but having their leaves regularly munched might slow them down a bit. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <5D00D255-52B1-431D-B959-B5FD00262D83@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Hi Dell, Calostemma Luteum seeds Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 07:42:45 +1000 Hello Dell I have some super fresh Calostemma Luteum seeds, these will radical up very quickly, possibly in a week, because the first half a dozen seeds have half inch radicals now in the 4 days I've been away at work... Im happy to pick out the newest seeds & there is still some hanging on plants that I recently put in the garden & they flowered with in a week, how cool.. Any way the seeds are from plants with Yellow flower with a bold red throat... So if your interested in trying to get some out to PBSers I'm happy to send some ASAP....... If yes, send your address so I don't have to look it up & that will save a little time... Although if you did a quick BX I think people may get some with radicals by the time they get them bit they should still be fresh & not rotted unless they get squished in the mail.. There pretty tough though..... Steven : ) Esk QLD Australia From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:26:28 +0000 Hi, In message , Gastil Gastil-Buhl writes >I noticed something ate three crocuses last week and did not eat any >foliage, or any neighboring flowers. I also suspected slugs, baited >with Sluggo, and got no dead slugs. Time for garden security cam. Would an infra red detector trigger on (cold) slugs... I find small slugs do not always take the bait. The slimy residue they leave behind is a clue, sometimes I can follow the trail. They don't go far and looking under nearby pots is rewarding. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From idavide@sbcglobal.net Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1363043911.84044.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: click beetle larva? was: help identifying mystery larvae Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Many years ago when I was trail clearing in New York state, I chanced upon a click beetle.  It was the first one I had ever seen, and I was quite bemused by it.  Some time later, a grub got caught in a spider's web in my ground floor apartment.  It was clicking ferociously, trying to free itself.  I assumed it was a click beetle larva. David E. ________________________________ From: "puppincuff@cox.net" puppincuff@cox.net They're beetle larvae,possibly click beetle (Elateridae) From eez55@earthlink.net Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <380-22013321202042281@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Odyssey Bulbs - commercial announcement - What's Blooming Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:20:42 -0600 Just to let everybody know that Russell's Crocus korolkowii 'Black-Eyed Beauty' has been blooming in a very warm spot of my Rapid City (SD) backyard for the last ten days, and it shows every sign of continuing. Species tulips and other spring bulbs are just now beginning to show their leaves, including Crocus sieberi (tricolor), strange to say. I thought it would be in bloom already. Eugene Zielinski Rapid City, SD USA > [Original Message] > From: Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 3/11/2013 7:47:05 AM > Subject: [pbs] Odyssey Bulbs - commercial announcement > > Our 2013 list is on line at www.odysseybulbs.com. > > Russell > > Russell Stafford > Odyssey Bulbs > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <513E9910.3040809@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID wanted Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:55:12 +1300 Paul, it is a Pyrolirion aureum according to Alessandro Marinello, and actually hails from Bolivia and Peru. The answer is thanks to Facebook. From another group than the original question. It is of the Amaryllid family and I think quite closely connected to the Zephyranthes. I want it! Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 12/03/2013 10:40 a.m., Paul T. wrote: > At 09:56 PM 11/03/2013, you wrote: >> I came across this photo on Facebook and wonder what it is. It came >> from Papua New Guinea. >> >> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5854036846739581010 >> > > Ina, > > A private reply.... > > It kind of looks like a Zephyranthes or Habranthus, doesn't it? I > have one yellow Zeph, but it doesn't look anywhere near as "thick" as > that one does. It's a beauty. > > Good luck with finding out what it is. > > All the best. > > Cheers. > > Paul T. > Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 > Min winter temp -8 or -9°C. Max summer temp 40°C. Thankfully, maybe > once or twice a year only. > > Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world > including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, > Galanthus, Terrestrial Orchids, Irises, Liliums, Trilliums (to name > but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! > > From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <513E9BB5.1040008@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:06:29 -0400 Rabbits? On 3/11/2013 4:40 PM, Rodger Whitlock wrote: > This spring, my crocus flowers have been eaten by some unknown critter. The > flower buds are nibbled down to next to nothing, but the foliage is intact. > Other flowers affected include Cyclamen coum, where the entire flower and calyx > are neatly nipped off, and some anemones. In many cases, there are fragments of > the flower scattered on the soil below. > > Potential malefactors: > > birds > deer > squirrels > rats > mice > slugs > earwigs > > Initially I thought it was slugs, but a scattering of slug bait yielded no dead > ones. There are deer around, but I've seen no evidence of them lately. Only one > squirrel in residence that I know of. Live traps baited with peanut butter > haven't caught anything yet, but those can sometimes take weeks to catch a > rodent. > > I've been in this house nearly 25 years and never seen damage like this before. > > Suggestions? > > From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Tue, 12 Mar 2013 07:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 09:48:08 -0400 Not likely. I have rabbits galore. Coyotes and owls make a dent but not enough. In the years we have a resident fox, I celebrate. Rabbits are not selective. They would nibble the foliage too. At least they do that in my place. Bea Zone5 in Ontario On 3/11/2013 4:40 PM, Rodger Whitlock wrote: > This spring, my crocus flowers have been eaten by some unknown critter. > The > flower buds are nibbled down to next to nothing, but the foliage is > intact. > Other flowers affected include Cyclamen coum, where the entire flower and > calyx > are neatly nipped off, and some anemones. In many cases, there are > fragments of > the flower scattered on the soil below. From reeve11@verizon.net Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <0MJK001C83DSJL12@vms173021.mailsrvcs.net> From: "Paul R. Lewis" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 16 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:53:38 -0500 Hi Bea, My guess would be the squirrel(s). I only have one or two here myself but I was constantly catching them digging in my pots and in my garden digging up my bulbous plants. They would leave the foliage alone and only eat the bulbs. I didn't want to hurt them, I just didn't want them feeding on my prize plants. Two things I can suggest to try to mitigate the damage: 1). Moth balls. Scatter a few of these around the garden and place one in each plant pot. These will deter squirrels and other small animals and won't harm the plants. 2). Small netting. Laying this on the ground and allow plants to grow up through it. Most squirrels and small animals won't walk on it. Assuming it is the squirrels doing this, and if you still want them around, I came to an equitable agreement with mine by placing a feeder in another corner of my garden that was away from the plants and where I could still watch them. It was easier for them to get to the food I left out for them and they left my plants alone. Now we are both much happier. Good luck! Paul -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:02 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 16 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Re: What's eating my bulb flowers? (Stephen Putman) 2. Re: What's eating my bulb flowers? (B Spencer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:06:29 -0400 From: Stephen Putman Subject: Re: [pbs] What's eating my bulb flowers? To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <513E9BB5.1040008@pobox.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Rabbits? On 3/11/2013 4:40 PM, Rodger Whitlock wrote: > This spring, my crocus flowers have been eaten by some unknown > critter. The flower buds are nibbled down to next to nothing, but the foliage is intact. > Other flowers affected include Cyclamen coum, where the entire flower > and calyx are neatly nipped off, and some anemones. In many cases, > there are fragments of the flower scattered on the soil below. > > Potential malefactors: > > birds > deer > squirrels > rats > mice > slugs > earwigs > > Initially I thought it was slugs, but a scattering of slug bait > yielded no dead ones. There are deer around, but I've seen no evidence > of them lately. Only one squirrel in residence that I know of. Live > traps baited with peanut butter haven't caught anything yet, but those > can sometimes take weeks to catch a rodent. > > I've been in this house nearly 25 years and never seen damage like this before. > > Suggestions? > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 09:48:08 -0400 From: B Spencer Subject: Re: [pbs] What's eating my bulb flowers? To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Not likely. I have rabbits galore. Coyotes and owls make a dent but not enough. In the years we have a resident fox, I celebrate. Rabbits are not selective. They would nibble the foliage too. At least they do that in my place. Bea Zone5 in Ontario On 3/11/2013 4:40 PM, Rodger Whitlock wrote: > This spring, my crocus flowers have been eaten by some unknown critter. > The > flower buds are nibbled down to next to nothing, but the foliage is > intact. > Other flowers affected include Cyclamen coum, where the entire flower > and calyx are neatly nipped off, and some anemones. In many cases, > there are fragments of the flower scattered on the soil below. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 16 ************************************ From totototo@telus.net Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <513EF81C.25750.3AFC@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 09:40:44 -0700 On 11 Mar 2013, at 23:06, Stephen Putman wrote: > Rabbits? No rabbits. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From arnold140@verizon.net Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <20021628.284197.1363107058324.JavaMail.root@vznit170132> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:50:58 -0500 (CDT) My vote would be squirrels. I've had them attack crocus planted in a lawn. Nipped off the flowers and in some cases followed the stems down to the bulbs. Arnold New Jersey On 03/12/13, Rodger Whitlock wrote: On 11 Mar 2013, at 23:06, Stephen Putman wrote: > Rabbits? No rabbits. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:17:30 -0700 Message-Id: <1363108642.49604.YahooMailNeo@web186001.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:17:22 +0000 (GMT) Some birds here are colour selective with crocus. Yellow seems to be attractive to them. Sparrows mainly.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8'ish. Freezing, windy and some snow today; a real spring day ;-)   > Rabbits? No rabbits. - From bonsaigai37@aol.com Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:17:30 -0700 Message-Id: <8CFED5E802D77FB-1174-6123@webmail-m179.sysops.aol.com> From: bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 13:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Last spring I had CHIPMUNKS eating the lily bulbs. The little beast climbed the boulder next to Scheherezade and ate nearly every bud off. And yes, I watched him do it! Michael Interlaken NY Z6 Some birds here are colour selective with crocus. Yellow seems to be attractive to them. Sparrows mainly. > Rabbits? No rabbits. - From Jadeboy48@aol.com Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:06:26 -0400 (EDT) There are a couple solutions to too many chipmunks in the world. When I owned a very, very large plant nursery I used "farm cats". These are tame, not feral (wild) cats with claws and teeth. I very strongly believe in neuturing (it prevents the cats from making more baby cats) cats otherwise you will have a cat problem! I had 8 cats, inside but with a outside pet door on 150 acres. When I started I had several thousand chipmunks (really!) and underground moles and rabbits. My cats were literally dumped on my property by people that did not want them, Short haired cats are best. I used pet collars that prevented fleas and ticks from living on the cats. Regular visits to a veterinarian are very important! While they should be fed a healthy diet they will soon eliminate the pest problem for fun and fresh meat in their diet too. Cats need to be young but not babies. Probably one or two cats would do the trick for a regular home. Chipmunks can also be killed using snap (mouse traps) baited with peanut butter. A friend used moth ball pellets lightly spread near the base of the plants with great success too. Probably as a last resort take up target shooting with a gun. I am talking about a pellet gun NOT an Uzi machine gun. This method should only be used when there are no children or loose pets in the area. If you use a pellet gun, be responsible! All guns can be dangerous so learn how to use them correctly and safely. By the way the cats saved me thousands of dollars per year and died around 26 years old! Make sure they have All the proper shots for cat diseases and especially rabies. Please don't get the wrong idea. I love wildlife and think many animals are cute but when they eat your 500 dollar rare bulb you have to decide if you are running a chipmunk ranch or growing plants. You can't have it both ways. You might check online to see if there are any plant that give off odors they don't like. In that case the pests just move on to a new home. I have heard of this method from friends but just cannot recall what plants work. With plant eating birds I found that little pieces of aluminum foil on string hanging from a branch or bush will frighten the birds away but not harm them. The foil blows in the wind and the little flashes of light are enough to scare them away. It is cheap and simple and harms nothing. I hope this help with your plant problems! PS: I have kept cats in a town but be considerate of your neighbors. Some people hate cats. Good Luck- Russ Hintz In a message dated 3/12/2013 10:31:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bonsaigai37@aol.com writes: Last spring I had CHIPMUNKS eating the lily bulbs. The little beast climbed the boulder next to Scheherezade and ate nearly every bud off. And yes, I watched him do it! Michael Interlaken NY Z6 Some birds here are colour selective with crocus. Yellow seems to be attractive to them. Sparrows mainly. > Rabbits? No rabbits. - _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Jadeboy48@aol.com Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Oh Michael, In my comments I forgot you might want to get a sling shot and take up a new past time-Russ H. In a message dated 3/12/2013 10:31:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bonsaigai37@aol.com writes: Last spring I had CHIPMUNKS eating the lily bulbs. The little beast climbed the boulder next to Scheherezade and ate nearly every bud off. And yes, I watched him do it! Michael Interlaken NY Z6 Some birds here are colour selective with crocus. Yellow seems to be attractive to them. Sparrows mainly. > Rabbits? No rabbits. - _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <410-220133313143553578@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers?--Cats as chipmunk control Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:35:53 -0400 I used "farm cats". These are tame, not > feral (wild) cats with claws and teeth. Farm and feral and pet cats that roam free decimate precious ground nesting wild birds like plover and quail and take an occasional guinea fowl. Cats are not welcome here and are considered invasive pests. Put a wire cage around that precious nursery stock like we have to do when we find a vulnerable killdeer nest during breeding season. The only good cat is an indoor cat. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USDA 8a PS: No, we don't shoot cats nor do we encourage our "farm dogs" to dispose of them like some of our neighbors do From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <6CB8D0DB-67F4-44C1-929F-11FE649D5156@gmail.com> From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:34:53 -0700 Here is a photo of a partially eaten Crocus: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8553991615/in/photostream Can we tell what is eating it just from the damage marks? This morning is wet with thick fog so I searched for slugs and only found one tiny, 2 mm long, slug 2 meters away from that bulb box. Last night with a flashlight I found no slugs but saw one earwig. Do earwigs eat flowers? Remember mine were covered with 1/4 inch wire mesh when this herbivory happened. - Gastil From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <01ee01ce200c$2b98e5a0$82cab0e0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:59:46 -0700 Have you checked for cutworms? They come out after dark, and are a recurring nuisance in my garden. They eat both leaves and flowers in my case, but seem to prefer flower buds. That damage in your photo looks a bit like the cutworm activity on my plants. The tricky thing about catching cutworms is that when they sense any vibration, they drop off the plant. So you have to sneak up on them. On the ground they look like a stick, and they are extremely good at hiding during the day. Good luck! Mike From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <018BD66B-CD7F-4BEC-9492-3208E70371D9@gmail.com> From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:41:48 -0700 Mike asked: Have you checked for cutworms? I looked at the wikipedia page for cutworms. Yes I have seen those occasionally when digging. I have not ever caught them in action. I had wondered what those were. Maybe the Crocus leaves were too thick for them and the petals easier to chew. Thank you for alerting me to cutworms. I have not considered them before. - Gastil From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1363211548.60450.YahooMailNeo@web186002.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:52:28 +0000 (GMT) Does this look the same? http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advice/ACEImages/SCN0003270_182081.jpg&imgrefurl=http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid%3D494&h=288&w=432&sz=41&tbnid=nauuGPxX9Q876M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dearwig%2Bflower%2Bdamage%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=earwig+flower+damage&usg=__Pb7lMoqVYiVcuOPauPQS-qmjpII=&docid=1FBL5DDIFem7lM&sa=X&ei=XPRAUZvrNujv0gW92IGgAQ&ved=0CEoQ9QEwAw&dur=2964   Or this maybe http://tinyurl.com/crybkvy   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone~8ish >________________________________ >From: M. Gastil-Buhl gastil.buhl@gmail.com > >Here is a photo of a partially eaten Crocus: >http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8553991615/in/photostream > >Can we tell what is eating it just from the damage marks? >This morning is wet with thick fog so I searched for slugs and only  >found one tiny, 2 mm long, slug 2 meters away from that bulb box. >Last night with a flashlight I found no slugs but saw one earwig. >Do earwigs eat flowers? > >Remember mine were covered with 1/4 inch wire mesh when this herbivory  >happened. > From Jadeboy48@aol.com Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <589d8.49bdeb4f.3e724f76@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Have you ever considered small rodents like field mice? Russ In a message dated 3/13/2013 8:39:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gastil.buhl@gmail.com writes: Here is a photo of a partially eaten Crocus: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8553991615/in/photostream Can we tell what is eating it just from the damage marks? This morning is wet with thick fog so I searched for slugs and only found one tiny, 2 mm long, slug 2 meters away from that bulb box. Last night with a flashlight I found no slugs but saw one earwig. Do earwigs eat flowers? Remember mine were covered with 1/4 inch wire mesh when this herbivory happened. - Gastil _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Jadeboy48@aol.com Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <59d45.524c1822.3e725968@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:36:25 -0400 (EDT) I think the English earwig damage looked liked the crocus damage but you really should be seeing the culprit. Look up when earwigs are active and check your plants. In any case I think it is a chewing insect that you need to treat for now before they eat/damage all your stock! By the time you identify the culprit your plants can be badly damaged and then you can get fungal infections growing on the damaged tissues. So I would do something now as far as eradication. Russ In a message dated 3/13/2013 2:52:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, brian.whyer@btinternet.com writes: http://tinyurl.com/crybkvy From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <2514182F-2DC4-4DAA-ADA7-7B26946E62FC@gmail.com> From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:07:49 -0700 I went out to the bulb boxes at 9:30 pm with a flashlight, a camera, and a determined attitude. I found three tiny slugs, no more than 3 mm long. I found six earwigs, a couple of them actively eating bulb leaves. I did not catch anyone eating bulb flower petals but one earwig was lurking suspiciously close to an Ipheion 'Jessie' with big chomps out of its petals. http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/sets/72157632993059934/ I did not find any cut worms. But I did not rake through the sand or grit mulch where they might be hiding. There is a thick fog mist so any slugs in the neighborhood would be out. All the leaves were coated with dew. - Gastil From Jadeboy48@aol.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1f7af.38f93160.3e7302b1@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers?--Cats as chipmunk control Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Oh, I agree that feral cats can kill birds. Here in the Phoenix we have a HUGE population of coyotes that live in Town. They wipe out more birds (ground nesting) than anything else. Birds,small dogs,cats and anything they can find. I think you just dislike cats in any way shape or form. That of course is ok. You have not run a 100plus acre nursery and growing 500$ daylily clumps. My cats that I used really only stayed on my property and were well fed. When your life work is to grow plants you cannot afford to have a thousand chipmunks eating your stock. This is how I made a living not as a hobby grower. On my Nursery I had many friends do bird surveys and the only ground nesting bird were wild turkeys (introduced by the State of Wisconsin) on my property. I was part of the Blue bird restoration program and there was never any evidence a cat of any sort killed one of them. They nest on old wooden fence posts about 3 feet off the ground. Well anyway the cats at my nursery were an important part of pest control. Could you see me covering a hundred acres with chicken wire. Besides looking pretty bad it would not be practical. One thing that may keep chipmunks away besides the mothball odor is to use urine from a predator. A fellow grower used mountain lion urine to keep deer out of his growing areas. Most zoos and wildlife parks would give this to you but not being an expert in this field a person would have to experiment what works. If you live here in the SW were mountain lions are quite common I would not try female lion urine unless you want to attract them. Mountain lions love to eat whatever they can catch. Good luck getting rid of your problem- Russ H. In a message dated 3/13/2013 10:59:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net writes: I used "farm cats". These are tame, not > feral (wild) cats with claws and teeth. Farm and feral and pet cats that roam free decimate precious ground nesting wild birds like plover and quail and take an occasional guinea fowl. Cats are not welcome here and are considered invasive pests. Put a wire cage around that precious nursery stock like we have to do when we find a vulnerable killdeer nest during breeding season. The only good cat is an indoor cat. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USDA 8a PS: No, we don't shoot cats nor do we encourage our "farm dogs" to dispose of them like some of our neighbors do _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From johnp77@cox.net Thu, 14 Mar 2013 05:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1972037274-1363261572-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-506477328-@b12.c19.bise6.blackberry> From: "John Patterson" Subject: Tall Growing Bulbs Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:46:11 +0000 Hello, I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area in a desert climate and we would like to plant some tall growing bulbs along a 6 foot high wall in our backyard. Would you have any suggestions? Thank you, John From Jadeboy48@aol.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:24:41 -0400 (EDT) It sounds like you have an earwig infestation. Get some very low toxic bug killer and apply as directed. Pyrethrum based bug killers are non toxic to mammals, not sure about fish. I do know of a case where a gardener put out a dish of beer. Cover the dish to keep out large animals,pets or kids. The slugs will drown themselves as will many other bugs. This is a very safe, nontoxic method that does work. Use the cheapest beer you can find and stale is ok to use too. Good luck-Russ H. In a message dated 3/13/2013 10:07:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gastil.buhl@gmail.com writes: I went out to the bulb boxes at 9:30 pm with a flashlight, a camera, and a determined attitude. I found three tiny slugs, no more than 3 mm long. I found six earwigs, a couple of them actively eating bulb leaves. I did not catch anyone eating bulb flower petals but one earwig was lurking suspiciously close to an Ipheion 'Jessie' with big chomps out of its petals. http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/sets/72157632993059934/ I did not find any cut worms. But I did not rake through the sand or grit mulch where they might be hiding. There is a thick fog mist so any slugs in the neighborhood would be out. All the leaves were coated with dew. - Gastil _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From desertdenial@hotmail.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: "desertdenial@hotmail.com" Subject: Tall Growing Bulbs Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:57:20 -0700 Hi John , Crinum grows really well here and so do a variety of gladiolas. Those are some of the tallest I can think of. Marie Tolleson, Az Marie Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: John Patterson To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thu, Mar 14, 2013 11:46:11 GMT+00:00 Subject: [pbs] Tall Growing Bulbs Hello, I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area in a desert climate and we would like to plant some tall growing bulbs along a 6 foot high wall in our backyard. Would you have any suggestions? Thank you, John From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:03:10 +0000 In message , Jadeboy48@aol.com writes >It sounds like you have an earwig infestation. There is a history of "earwig traps", involving no pesticides: http://www.google.com/#q=earwig+trap The title "Tiny Game Hunting" of this book has always appealed: http://www.amazon.com/Tiny-Game-Hunting-Environmentally-Healthy/dp/0520221079 -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: <66B89D7510D34348845897EB9234D82535645A9C18@MBX12.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> From: Fred Biasella Subject: Tall Growing Bulbs Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:11:32 +0000 Hi John, I wish I could grow them here because they're quite beautiful, but what about Watsonias. They seem to like your conditions in the southwest and they would be a nice permanent planting. Warm Regards, Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA P.S. What ever you do, don't choose the potentially invasive ones (meriana!!!) -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of desertdenial@hotmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:57 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Tall Growing Bulbs Hi John , Crinum grows really well here and so do a variety of gladiolas. Those are some of the tallest I can think of. Marie Tolleson, Az Marie Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: John Patterson To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thu, Mar 14, 2013 11:46:11 GMT+00:00 Subject: [pbs] Tall Growing Bulbs Hello, I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area in a desert climate and we would like to plant some tall growing bulbs along a 6 foot high wall in our backyard. Would you have any suggestions? Thank you, John From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <410-220133414142021750@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers?--Cats as chipmunk control Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:20:21 -0400 > > Oh, I agree that feral cats can kill birds. Here in the Phoenix we have a > HUGE population of coyotes that live in Town. They wipe out more birds > (ground nesting) than anything else. Birds,small dogs,cats and anything they can > find. I think you just dislike cats in any way shape or form. You might wish to read this paper and then reconsider: Mesopredator release and avifaunal extinctions in a fragmented system ftp://sci.sdsu.edu/pub/IEMM/CSS/Other%20papers/CrooksSoule1999.pdf Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USDA 8 From mdomocol@yahoo.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: <1363272495.60246.YahooMailNeo@web190102.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> From: Michelle Domocol Subject: Please remove me from the mailing list. Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:48:15 +0800 (SGT) Please remove me from the mailing list. Have a great day,   Michelle Domocol mdomocol@yahoo.com Cell:415.279.6035 42900 Nido Court, Fremont CA 94539 Michelle's horticultural research services: ask.michelledomocol@gmail.com Project Portfolio:askmichelledomocol.carbonmade.com From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:14:22 -0700 As usual this time of year, I'm wondering what to call the many seed-grown Narcissus in my bulb beds. Browsing through the PBS wiki sections on Narcissus led me to a discussion of classification by Brian Mathew in the book "Narcissus and Daffodil," a collective volume edited by Gordon R. Hanks and available through CRC. Whoever wrote the introductory sections on our wiki apparently had access to this chapter, but when I went looking for it, I found I could download the book (most of which concerns the chemistry, especially pharmacological, of Narcissus) for the princely sum of $117, or have access to the chapter for 72 hours for only $20. I decided against the whole book, but am wondering whether it makes sense to get access for a short period to something I can't download separately and keep for later reference. I suspect I couldn't print it off the screen, either. Do any of our correspondents have an opinion on this? Will it help me with Section Jonquilla, the major source of my frustration? I have John Blanchard's book "Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils," which we discussed a week or two ago, but in many cases it serves mostly to assure the reader that he or she is not alone in being confused about these plants. It also describes well-known natural sites for many species, which helped, e.g., in examining two collections of N. bulbocodium from Oukaimedin, Morocco--I think I got ssp. bulbocodium in one case, and the intermediate with ssp. nivalis in the other. I am tempted to call most of them hybrids anyway, though I did raise quite a few from wild-collected seeds. In any case, they are bright, vigorous, and fragrant, and most of them probably can move to the garden successfully, as long as the bulb fly lets them. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From johnp77@cox.net Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: <1892995746-1363281750-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1390068830-@b12.c19.bise6.blackberry> From: "John Patterson" Subject: Tall Growing Bulbs Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:22:29 +0000 Thank you Marie, I'll check into both. John -----Original Message----- From: "desertdenial@hotmail.com" Sender: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:57:20 To: Pacific Bulb Society Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Tall Growing Bulbs Hi John , Crinum grows really well here and so do a variety of gladiolas. Those are some of the tallest I can think of. Marie Tolleson, Az Marie Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: John Patterson To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thu, Mar 14, 2013 11:46:11 GMT+00:00 Subject: [pbs] Tall Growing Bulbs Hello, I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area in a desert climate and we would like to plant some tall growing bulbs along a 6 foot high wall in our backyard. Would you have any suggestions? Thank you, John From wusong@evilemail.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: From: dave s Subject: root mealies Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:23:40 -0400 I know this is a bulb forum, but I also know that many of you grow a lot more than just bulbs. Recently, an old enemy of mine has resurfaced: Root mealybugs. I haven't seen these little scumbags since the 90's, and it's been almost a year since I've added any plants to the particular collection that's been hit (which is indoors), so this basically proves what we've all come to accept - that root mealybugs are a supernatural force of pure evil. Anyway, it's been so long that I don't remember what to do. Difficulty level: These are Euphorbia francoisii. So, some pesticidea are out. Any experienced old hands out there with sure-fire EUPHORBIA-SAFE treatments? thanks and best regards, Dave From johnp77@cox.net Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: <882927281-1363281884-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1359467840-@b12.c19.bise6.blackberry> From: "John Patterson" Subject: Tall Growing Bulbs Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:24:43 +0000 Thank you Fred. And thank you for the P.S.! John -----Original Message----- From: Fred Biasella Sender: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:11:32 To: Pacific Bulb Society Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Tall Growing Bulbs Hi John, I wish I could grow them here because they're quite beautiful, but what about Watsonias. They seem to like your conditions in the southwest and they would be a nice permanent planting. Warm Regards, Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA P.S. What ever you do, don't choose the potentially invasive ones (meriana!!!) -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of desertdenial@hotmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:57 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Tall Growing Bulbs Hi John , Crinum grows really well here and so do a variety of gladiolas. Those are some of the tallest I can think of. Marie Tolleson, Az Marie Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: John Patterson To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thu, Mar 14, 2013 11:46:11 GMT+00:00 Subject: [pbs] Tall Growing Bulbs Hello, I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area in a desert climate and we would like to plant some tall growing bulbs along a 6 foot high wall in our backyard. Would you have any suggestions? Thank you, John From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: <7D06FC73-A325-4583-9FC6-12A55E798E7D@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:39:22 -0700 There are various screen capture methods. However, unless you are going to assay the chemicals in the plants you're growing, it seems like a lot of money to pay. Diane Whitehead From bonsaigai37@aol.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: <8CFEEF4E6B4C9B3-11FC-1E09D@Webmail-m121.sysops.aol.com> From: bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: Tall Growing Bulbs Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Would Drimia (Urginea) maritima be hardy in your location? Michael Interlaken NY Z6 Hello, I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area in a desert climate and we would like to plant some tall growing bulbs along a 6 foot high wall in our backyard. Would you have any suggestions? Thank you, John From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1363286382.66228.YahooMailNeo@web84503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Jane McGary wrote: "As usual this time of year, I'm wondering what to call the many  seed-grown Narcissus in my bulb beds." I had my own Narcissus nomenclature issues this week, too. The Washington Post runs an excellent once-a-week column called Urban Jungle which discusses a wide range of natural history phenomena. This week's column discussed the ability of honey bees to warm up using daffodil flowers. The study was based on a species called Narcissus longispathus and the accompanying drawings showed a typical yellow trumpet daffodil. The article was based on a piece which appeared in Ecology titled Insect Physiological Ecology: Mechanisms and Patterns. You can view the newspaper article here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/metro/urban-jungle/pages/130312.html I stared and thought for a few moments and then had to admit to myself that I had never heard of Narcissus longispathus. A copy of Bowles was nearby, so I checked the index: he did not list such a name eighty years ago. Our PBS Wiki does  mention the name after noting the the naming of daffodils is a mess. A Google search turned up a Wikipedia entry for this plant; among the information given there is  that this species is not recognized by the World Checklist of Selected Plant Families, which makes it a synonym of Narcissus hispanicus. A check of IPNI shows that the species longispathus was named in 1933  (Bowles was published in 1934 so it's not surprising that it's not listed there). A varietas was added in 1982, three subspecific names regarded as invalid were published in 2008 and another varietas added in 2011.  So Jane is not alone in having Narcissus nomenclature issues.  Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where snowdrops, winter aconites and early crocuses are quickly fading and squills, daffodils and magnolias are poised to perform the next act.   From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <51422797.30009@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: What's eating my bulb flowers? Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 08:40:07 +1300 For earwigs I was just reading thatyou mix equal parts of molasses or corn syrup, oil and soy-sauce. Fill a small container about 1/3 with it, bury it in the garden up to the top edge and prop up the lid over it (so it is nice and dark), leaving just enough space for the earwigs to crawl through. And from various responses to that suggestion, it works well. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 15/03/2013 1:24 a.m., Jadeboy48@aol.com wrote: > It sounds like you have an earwig infestation. From davidross350@btinternet.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1363291119.49512.YahooMailNeo@web87405.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: DAVID ROSS Subject: Hesperantha (Schizostylis) coccinea forma alba Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:58:39 +0000 (GMT) We are the National Collection holders of Hesperantha coccinea cvs. in the UK.  We are currently doing some research into Hesperantha coccinea forma alba. We always believed this to be a wild form from South Africa until correspondence with Gary Dunlop who indicated that it was brought into the UK by Jeff Irons who believed it to have arisen in cultivation in NZ.  Jeff had acquired his original plant as seed from the NZAGS.  We have contacted them and this has led us to Bernard Hollard of 'Hollard Gardens'.  We understand that he travelled very widely to South Africa and other countries and brought the plant into New Zealand as seed and then it was distributed to others there. We have also spoken to Cameron McMaster and other colleagues who have never seen this plant in the wild in South Africa, although there are some ambiguous written references to its occurrence there. Does anyone have any more information that could help us track the source of the 'White Hesperantha coccinea'!  David and Penny Ross Devon United Kingdom From piabinha@yahoo.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:17:26 -0700 Message-Id: <1363295477.47517.YahooMailNeo@web160501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: ID wanted Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:11:17 -0700 (PDT) is it possible that it's not a native?   ======= tsuh yang Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:56:50 +1300 From: Ina Subject: [pbs] ID wanted To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <513DB872.9050203@orcon.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I came across this photo on Facebook and wonder what it is.  It came from Papua New Guinea. https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5854036846739581010 Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand  Zone 10 ************************************ From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5142412B.4020909@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID wanted Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 10:29:15 +1300 It is a Pyrolirion aureum according to Alessandro Marinello, and actually hails from Bolivia and Peru. So imported into Papua New Guinea. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 15/03/2013 10:11 a.m., piaba wrote: > is it possible that it's not a native? > > ======= > tsuh yang From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: ID wanted Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:32:58 +0100 It is Pyrolirion aureum tsuh yang Native from Peru and Chile Roland 2013/3/14 piaba : > is it possible that it's not a native? > > ======= > tsuh yang R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Tall Growing Bulbs Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:19:12 -0500 Dear Marie, If you have a damp to wet area, Cannas can't be beat for taking the heat, growing tall -some up to 12 ft and blooming all summer. Needing a bit more TLC are a variety of tall Dahlias to to D. imperialis approaching 20 ft. These are both available in a range of flower colors, foliage and heights. Best Jim On Mar 14, 2013, at 8:57 AM, desertdenial@hotmail.com wrote: > Hi John , > Crinum grows really well here and so do a variety of gladiolas. Those are > some of the tallest I can think of. > From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Tall Growing Bulbs Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:26:34 +0000 Asphodels, Eremurus, Alliums, Peter (UK) From totototo@telus.net Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <51420AFC.11592.433B@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Hesperantha (Schizostylis) coccinea forma alba Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:38:04 -0700 On 14 Mar 2013, at 19:58, DAVID ROSS wrote: > Does anyone have any more information that could help us track the source of the > 'White Hesperantha coccinea'!  I bought this from Marshall Olbrich at Western Hills Nursery in Occidental, Californi, in 1987 or 1989. I don't recall if he said where it came from. Note that Marshall has been dead for years, and Western Hills finally closed for good several years ago. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From richrd@nas.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3934C805-546D-495E-9291-D38FF24EE108@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: lily germ pics Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:36:47 -0700 This are Lilium canadense seeds in the first stage of germination. It is a delayed hypogeal species and has been in warm stratification (69 deg F) for 30 days as have the others. http://flic.kr/p/e3knc5 Another delayed hypogeal species, Lilium michiganense, with exactly the same timing in warm strat as above. The bulb like structures at this stage of germination is interesting to watch. http://flic.kr/p/e3kn9m This species, Lilium philladelphicum, appears to be putting out a radicle rather than the bulb like structures above. http://flic.kr/p/e3knf7 I've been checking these seeds in warm stratification every 7 days. I'll hold them in warm strat for another week at slightly cooler temperatures, then move to cold and watch carefully for 3 months. If the root continues to develop I'll plant in a container and hold in cool conditions until they begin to emerge. Rich From idavide@sbcglobal.net Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1363321143.91241.YahooMailRC@web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: lily germ pics Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Trying to interpret those photos, I get the impression that the germination is epigeal.  The Lily seeds that I've grown were definitely epigeal.  If the parts that are visible in your photos are the radicle and protobulb, then the cotyledon is still in the seed shell, and as it expands, it will push the seed husk above ground. David E. ________________________________ From: Richard To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, March 14, 2013 8:37:30 PM Subject: [pbs] lily germ pics This are Lilium canadense seeds in the first stage of germination. It is a delayed hypogeal species and has been in warm stratification (69 deg F) for 30 days as have the others. http://flic.kr/p/e3knc5 Another delayed hypogeal species, Lilium michiganense, with exactly the same timing in warm strat as above. The bulb like structures at this stage of germination is interesting to watch. http://flic.kr/p/e3kn9m This species, Lilium philladelphicum, appears to be putting out a radicle rather than the bulb like structures above. http://flic.kr/p/e3knf7 I've been checking these seeds in warm stratification every 7 days. I'll hold them in warm strat for another week at slightly cooler temperatures, then move to cold and watch carefully for 3 months. If the root continues to develop I'll plant in a container and hold in cool conditions until they begin to emerge. Rich From richrd@nas.com Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <6163A3D5-F13E-4B9A-9D55-88A8702B9984@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: lily germ pics Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:28:23 -0700 Thanks David. Three new species for me. On Mar 14, 2013, at 9:19 PM, David Ehrlich wrote: > Trying to interpret those photos, I get the impression that the germination is > epigeal. The Lily seeds that I've grown were definitely epigeal. If the parts > that are visible in your photos are the radicle and protobulb, then the > cotyledon is still in the seed shell, and as it expands, it will push the seed > husk above ground. > David E. > > > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 15 Mar 2013 05:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1363348600.50642.YahooMailNeo@web84501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: lily germ pics Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 04:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Germination in Lilium canadense and L. michiganense is hypogeal, in L. philadelphicum it's epigeal.  L.canadense and L. michiganense do not have above ground cotyledons, L. philadelphicum does. In L. canadense and L. michiganense the first green you see above ground is the first true leaf.  Jim McKenney From dkramb@badbear.com Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: lily germ pics Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:16:52 -0400 Those are fascinating photos! I've never seen Lilum seeds/plants at this stage before. Fascinating stuff!! Dennis in Cincinnati From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: lily germ pics Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:14:34 +0000 Hi, In message , Dennis Kramb writes >Those are fascinating photos! I've never seen Lilum seeds/plants at this >stage before. Excellent photos Richard. The PBS wiki page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LiliumBulbs has photo series contrasting epigeal and hypogeal germination of lily seed. The wiki page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LilyGerminationBySpecies lists the germination mode of each species and: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LilyGermination describes them. In wiki-land we're getting into photographing seeds sprouting. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From robin@hansennursery.com Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1363360872.719914819@mail.hansennursery.com> From: robin@hansennursery.com Subject: root mealies Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 08:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Dave, Imidacloprid is the gold standard, but can be very long-lasting. There are some new products in the Lawn and Garden section of your local garden store/feed supply that have this in them, in granular form, and that's what I've been using on my potted plants. It's essential never to use it on anything that might be edible to humans or other animals or where the pesticide can come into contact with frogs, such as the tree frogs in my greenhouse. My preferred method is repotting, with the old contaminated soil sent to the garbage bin or treated in my compost pile that is strictly for the ornamental garden. Others on this forum can give you a better idea of dosing for these products, as I recall. I know this is a bulb forum, but I also know that many of you grow a lot more than just bulbs. How safe this product is for your Euphorbia is best answered by others. Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery North Bend, Oregon From jgglatt@gmail.com Fri, 15 Mar 2013 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <514378E4.7030302@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: What's In Bloom - Snowdrops Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:39:16 -0400 No tender bulbs in bloom in the garden. Instead I have a tapestry of Eranthis hiemalis, a few E. pinnatifida, a nice scattering of Leucojum vernum, and a delightful diversity of Galanthus. Also Adonis amurensis and lots of hellebores but as they are herbaceous perennials I assume they don't count. Here's a web site entry I made for the Galanthus: http://www.bellewood-gardens.com/2013/Snowdrops_2013-03.html Enjoy. Judy in New Jersey where the lion-like winds of March are somewhat subdues but sunshine has been replaced by overcast From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1363396291.44710.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: lily germ pics Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Jim, I know that some Lilies have hypogeal and some epigeal germination.  I have only once germinated a Lily seed.  Upon germination, it pushed the middle of the cotyledon above ground, doubled over.  Within a day or two, it unbent, bringing the seed coat at its tip up and waving it in the air.  I would call that epigeal germination.  On the other hand, Sisyrinchium (or the ones I've germinated) also begin with a doubled over cotyledon above ground, but in this case, both the hypocotyl end and the suctorial tip remain below ground; the cotyledon never unbends.  I have always considered that to be hypogeal germination, despite the fact that the first above ground greenery is the cotyledon -- in particular, the cotyledon tip with attached seed coat never goes above ground. David E. ________________________________ From: Jim McKenney To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, March 15, 2013 4:56:52 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] lily germ pics Germination in Lilium canadense and L. michiganense is hypogeal, in L. philadelphicum it's epigeal.  L.canadense and L. michiganense do not have above ground cotyledons, L. philadelphicum does. In L. canadense and L. michiganense the first green you see above ground is the first true leaf.  Jim McKenney From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5143C902.2030305@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 14:21:06 +1300 Recently a friend and I walked around the Botanical Gardens and I helped myself to seed of one Iris (no idea of the flower) and the seed head of another one elsewhere in the Gardens. The first lot is sprouting so it will be interesting to see what I got. The second lot I put on water as the seed head was not ripe. This is what it looks like. https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855743415976849746 I would like to know what type of Iris this comes from. Anyone got any ideas? I cut the top off one seed head and the seed looks ripe now. Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1363397459.99684.YahooMailNeo@web84502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: lily germ pics Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:30:59 -0700 (PDT) David, if I understand what you have described, I would call what happens in your Sisyrinchium epigeal germination.  Jim McKenney From rbartontx@yahoo.com Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1363400108.57432.YahooMailNeo@web124503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rodney Barton Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Photos of the seed would help with a guess. Rodney >________________________________ > From: Ina >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 8:21 PM >Subject: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > >Recently a friend and I walked around the Botanical Gardens and I helped >myself to seed of one Iris (no idea of the flower) and the seed head of >another one elsewhere in the Gardens. > >The first lot is sprouting so it will be interesting to see what I got. > >The second lot I put on water as the seed head was not ripe.  This is >what it looks like. > >https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855743415976849746 > >I would like to know what type of Iris this comes from.  Anyone got any >ideas?  I cut the top off one seed head and the seed looks ripe now. > >Ina > >-- >Ina Crossley >Auckland New Zealand  Zone 10 > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5143DA7B.8000400@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 15:35:39 +1300 Photo ofthe seed https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855763667997330354 The squares are 1cm. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 16/03/2013 3:15 p.m., Rodney Barton wrote: > Photos of the seed would help with a guess. > > Rodney > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Ina >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 8:21 PM >> Subject: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head >> >> Recently a friend and I walked around the Botanical Gardens and I helped >> myself to seed of one Iris (no idea of the flower) and the seed head of >> another one elsewhere in the Gardens. >> >> The first lot is sprouting so it will be interesting to see what I got. >> >> The second lot I put on water as the seed head was not ripe. This is >> what it looks like. >> >> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855743415976849746 >> >> I would like to know what type of Iris this comes from. Anyone got any >> ideas? I cut the top off one seed head and the seed looks ripe now. >> >> Ina >> >> -- >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From threesisters@woosh.co.nz Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <375453E1D1CD409A8D8241246BA7D1C3@DarleneHP> From: Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 15:48:02 +1300 It looks like Iris ensata Ina, both the seeds and the pods. (Japanese Iris) Darlene Cook Auckland, New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: Ina Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:35 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head Photo ofthe seed https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855763667997330354 The squares are 1cm. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 16/03/2013 3:15 p.m., Rodney Barton wrote: > Photos of the seed would help with a guess. > > Rodney > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Ina >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 8:21 PM >> Subject: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head >> >> Recently a friend and I walked around the Botanical Gardens and I helped >> myself to seed of one Iris (no idea of the flower) and the seed head of >> another one elsewhere in the Gardens. >> >> The first lot is sprouting so it will be interesting to see what I got. >> >> The second lot I put on water as the seed head was not ripe. This is >> what it looks like. >> >> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855743415976849746 >> >> I would like to know what type of Iris this comes from. Anyone got any >> ideas? I cut the top off one seed head and the seed looks ripe now. >> >> Ina >> >> -- >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Jadeboy48@aol.com Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 23:14:00 -0400 (EDT) As I used to grow several thousand species and hybrid, I can tell you what category if you give me some info. I could not bring up your pictures. Describe height and width of leave, placement of flower pod on stem,descibe bloomstalk: thin,thick, branched,Where the pods at the tip of the bloonstalk or pod all along stem with leaves between each ( kind of like a cornstalk) Generally there are bearded or beardless iris. This is the beard on the fall (hanging down flower part). Most bearded iris have large almost potato like tubers,wider,fleshy leaves from 4 inches tall to about 36 inches. Beardles ussually have more narrow grass like leaves. They look like they are growing from a wirey cluster . Many look like a clump of grass,narrow thin leaves. I have a BS and MS in Plant Classification. Send me a direct picture of the plant/from many angles as well as the seedpod on the stem,pic of just the pod then send me a pic of the seeds,fairly closeup. Now remember there are thousands of iris hybrids but I can tell you a lot if you get me the info. Send the pics direct to ne Russ H (pbs member) at _jadeboy48@aol.com_ (mailto:jadeboy48@aol.com) I am sure I can help a lot. I used to raise almost all the known species. I had about 5 acres of iris and oher plants just around the house. No lawn. The fields and fields of different hybrids from all the groups" Bearded, Siberian , Louisiana, Species, Aril (desert iris from the middle east), Spuria, see it can quie involved. Any chance there was a nametag next to the plant you got the seed from? Because of the work involved I am only doing this for you. It is really easy to enter American Iris Society websites of info Russ H In a message dated 3/15/2013 7:15:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rbartontx@yahoo.com writes: >https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1s RgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855743415976849746 > >I would like to know what type of From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <5143E46D.2050601@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 16:18:05 +1300 Thanks Darlene. As the only Irises I grow are Iris ensata, it did look familiar, but wasn't sure. So that is great. Would itbe a good idea to wait till spring for sowing? Chill the seed meanwhile? Or sow now? Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 16/03/2013 3:48 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: > It looks like Iris ensata Ina, both the seeds and the pods. (Japanese > Iris) > > Darlene Cook > Auckland, New Zealand > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ina > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:35 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > > Photo ofthe seed > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855763667997330354 From threesisters@woosh.co.nz Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <61EB82E90C4D41BBB34E683F58547035@DarleneHP> From: Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 16:33:17 +1300 No chilling necessary, the seed is fresh so go for it. I do soak my seed for a week then right into the seed raising mix. As long as it is not allowed to dry out you might see some germination by September. JI's are so easy for us to grow here in Auckland. Good luck, Darlene -----Original Message----- From: Ina Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:18 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head Thanks Darlene. As the only Irises I grow are Iris ensata, it did look familiar, but wasn't sure. So that is great. Would itbe a good idea to wait till spring for sowing? Chill the seed meanwhile? Or sow now? Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 16/03/2013 3:48 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: > It looks like Iris ensata Ina, both the seeds and the pods. (Japanese > Iris) > > Darlene Cook > Auckland, New Zealand > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ina > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:35 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > > Photo ofthe seed > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855763667997330354 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <5143E925.5000301@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 16:38:13 +1300 Thank you once again Darlene. Now to wait until I see which one it is. Patience is a virtue so they say. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 16/03/2013 4:33 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: > No chilling necessary, the seed is fresh so go for it. I do soak my seed > for a week then right into the seed raising mix. As long as it is not > allowed to dry out > you might see some germination by September. JI's are so easy for us to > grow here in Auckland. > > Good luck, > > Darlene > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ina > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:18 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > > Thanks Darlene. As the only Irises I grow are Iris ensata, it did look > familiar, but wasn't sure. So that is great. > > Would itbe a good idea to wait till spring for sowing? Chill the seed > meanwhile? Or sow now? > > Ina > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 16/03/2013 3:48 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: >> It looks like Iris ensata Ina, both the seeds and the pods. (Japanese >> Iris) >> >> Darlene Cook >> Auckland, New Zealand >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ina >> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:35 PM >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head >> >> Photo ofthe seed >> >> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/UnknownBulb?authkey=Gv1sRgCLqvrc-IwcC7gAE#5855763667997330354 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 16 Mar 2013 03:17:17 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 10:03:13 +0000 Ina, your initial picture of the seed pods was quite clear , I am sure that it is Iris laevigata. I have heard that some pople would combine the species ensata and laevigata though. Ensata has a pointed top in my experiance. (Incidently the pods also resemble Iris clarkii a little) Peter (UK) From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 16 Mar 2013 04:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <51444808.7010501@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 23:23:04 +1300 In which case, I was just now reading, that if it is, it likes water even more than the ensata ones. Will keep that in mind. Thankyou Peterand everyone who responded. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 16/03/2013 11:03 p.m., Peter Taggart wrote: > Ina, > your initial picture of the seed pods was quite clear , I am sure that it > is Iris laevigata. I have heard that some pople would combine the species > ensata and laevigata though. Ensata has a pointed top in my experiance. > (Incidently the pods also resemble Iris clarkii a little) > Peter (UK) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat, 16 Mar 2013 07:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <49BA02C1-4936-4DFB-A1E6-A924AD6E8B66@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Iris ID Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 08:49:51 -0500 Dear PBSers, For good comparison photos of many Iris flowers, seed pods/capsules, seeds and other structures there is an excellent resource to be found at the SIGNA Species database at http://signa.org/index.pl?Species You will find a surprising array of close ups or many of the Iris species for viewing and comparison. Best Jim W. From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 16 Mar 2013 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5144B929.3030005@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Iris ID Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 07:25:45 +1300 Thank you Jim. Amazing so many! Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 17/03/2013 2:49 a.m., James Waddick wrote: > Dear PBSers, > > For good comparison photos of many Iris flowers, seed pods/capsules, seeds and other structures there is an excellent resource to be found at the SIGNA Species database at http://signa.org/index.pl?Species > > You will find a surprising array of close ups or many of the Iris species for viewing and comparison. Best Jim W. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From idavide@sbcglobal.net Sat, 16 Mar 2013 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1363473641.81140.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: lily germ pics Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 15:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Jim, I take my way of distinguishing between epigeal and hypogeal from A. J. Eames -- Morphology of the Angiosperms -- opening paragraph in Germination -- "The term epigeal is applied to germination where the seed coat is carried up into the air, regardless of place where germination begins ...; the term hypogeal, where seed coat and cotyledons remain in the soil."  That definition leaves a question where the seed coat and the suctorial end of the cotyledon remain underground adjacent to the hypocotyl, while the middle of the cotyledon bulges above ground and becomes photosynthetic.  That certainly is an in-between state. Anyway, his definition is not totally satisfactory: in advanced hypogeal germination, the cotyledon does not remain underground -- it is the first organ above ground, in the form of the coleoptile. David E. ________________________________ From: Jim McKenney To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, March 15, 2013 6:31:09 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] lily germ pics David, if I understand what you have described, I would call what happens in your Sisyrinchium epigeal germination.  Jim McKenney From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon, 18 Mar 2013 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <051SvGG0yyRRFwSO@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: epigeal/hypogeal (was lily germ pics) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:03:16 +0000 Hi, I mentioned the PBS wiki was getting into seed sprouts, to illustrate, the previous posting. This would be hypogeal: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Micranthus/Micranthus_junceus_seed_MGB3.jpg Micranthus junceus seed, M. Gastil-Buhl, from http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Micranthus and this would be epigeal http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lewisia/Lewisia_rediviva_DP1.jpg Lewisia rediviva seed, David Pilling from http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lewisia -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From sujithart@gmail.com Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Sujit Hart Subject: epigeal/hypogeal (was lily germ pics) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 10:19:48 -0500 Hi, Am I right to conclude that regular bean sprouts we see in the market is Epigeal? Sujit Houston, Texas On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 10:03 AM, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > > I mentioned the PBS wiki was getting into seed sprouts, to illustrate, the > previous posting. > > This would be hypogeal: > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Micranthus/Micranthus_junceus_seed_MGB3.jpg > > Micranthus junceus seed, M. Gastil-Buhl, from > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Micranthus > > > and this would be epigeal > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lewisia/Lewisia_rediviva_DP1.jpg > > Lewisia rediviva seed, David Pilling from > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lewisia > > > > -- > David Pilling > email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk > web: http://www.davidpilling.net > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: epigeal/hypogeal (was lily germ pics) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:27:54 +0000 In message , Sujit Hart writes >Hi, > >Am I right to conclude that regular bean sprouts we see in the market is >Epigeal? Quoting wikipedia: "The frequently garden grown common bean - Phaseolus vulgaris - is epigeal while the closely related runner bean - Phaseolus coccineus - is hypogeal." -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1363622756.11033.YahooMailNeo@web84505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: epigeal/hypogeal (was lily germ pics) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Sujit asked "Am I right to conclude that regular bean sprouts we see in the market isEpigeal?" David wrote: "Quoting wikipedia: "The frequently garden grown common bean - Phaseolus vulgaris - is  epigeal while the closely related runner bean - Phaseolus coccineus - is  hypogeal." But the bean most often used for sprouts is not a Phaseolus - it's the mung bean, Vigna radiata. The genus Vigna also includes cowpeas, crowder peas  and yard-long beans (these three are all forms of the same species) and the so-called cork-screw vine or snail vine, V. caracalla.  Jim McKenney  From jimlykos@bigpond.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <6EA055B24D194C2EBB8717B35757314F@AnniesLaptop> From: "Jim Lykos" Subject: narcissus species Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 04:15:18 +1100 Hello Ben, I would be very interested in reading your pdf article on the taxaonomy of narcissus species. Could you please email me a copy Many thanks Jim Lykos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zonneveld, B.J.M." To: Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:04 AM Subject: [pbs] narcissus species >I like to remind you that I wrote an article on the taxonomy of all >narcissus species, based on 375 accessions, in 2008 in Plant systematics >and evolution 275: 109-132 and a second article on the origin of N bujei in >Anales del Jardin Botanico Madrid 67(1): 29-39. Both are based on nuclear >DNA content > I can send a pdf to those interested > > Kind regards, > > B.J.M.Zonneveld > > > > T +31 (0)71 527 47 38, T +31 (0)71 527 50 08 > Einsteinweg 2, P.O. Box 9514, 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands > E ben.zonneveld@naturalis.nl, I www.naturalis.nl > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: zondag 24 maart 2013 9:02 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 33 > > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: ID request (Fred Biasella) > 2. Re: ID request (Mary Sue Ittner) > 3. Re: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid (Ina) > 4. Re: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid (Ina) > 5. Re: What I saw in bloom (Alberto Castillo) > 6. Re: Identifying Narcissus species (Rodger Whitlock) > 7. hello, what's blooming in my garden (arcangelo wessells) > 8. Re: Identifying Narcissus species (Hannon) > 9. Overwintering Nerine bowdenii (J. Denys Bourque) > 10. Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus (J. Denys Bourque) > 11. Re: Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus (Bulborum Botanicum) > 12. Re: hello, what's blooming in my garden: hybrids between > californian paeonia (Mark BROWN) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:35:59 -0400 > From: "Fred Biasella" > Subject: Re: [pbs] ID request > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Hi Ben, > > It almost looks like a spiloxene. > > Fred > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Ben Anderson > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:53 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] ID request > > > Anyone have a name on this unknown? It has been blooming the last few > weeks and is now winding down. Apparently a winter grower here in the SF > bay area... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/btanderson/8578251303/in/photostream > > Thanks, > Ben Anderson > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:14:56 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: Re: [pbs] ID request > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <20130323171520.807BCE8B8C@lists.ibiblio.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Spiloxene serrata is one of the longest blooming species. This year with a > dry January, February, and March it is really been putting on a show as > there have been a lot more sunny days with enough warmth for the flowers > to open. It started blooming in December and is still blooming in March. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Spiloxene#serrata > > It may not be as spectacular as Spiloxene capensis, but it is a much more > reliable and longer bloomer. I suspect this is what your unknown is. > > Mary Sue > > Mary Sue Ittner > California's North Coast > Wet mild winters with occasional frost > Dry mild summers > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:06:05 +1300 > From: Ina > Subject: Re: [pbs] Zephyranthes primulina hybrid > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <514E0B2D.3080002@orcon.net.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Only the one bulb had 2 doubles like this Steven. Until I accidentally > broke a flower off, and then there was one..... :'( > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 24/03/2013 12:23 a.m., steven hart wrote: >> Ina i was also wondering if every flower on this plant is double ? >> >> On 22 March 2013 20:06, Ina wrote: >>> What I found in my garden today >>> >>> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHab >>> ranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 >>> >>> Ina >>> >>> -- >>> Ina Crossley >>> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:09:57 +1300 > From: Ina > Subject: Re: [pbs] Zephyranthes primulina hybrid > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <514E0C15.9010702@orcon.net.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Stev, they are twinned, I looked at the embryo seedheads yesterday and as > you say, they are slightly flattened. Felix Fajar Martha says that > eventually I should be able to get it into a double. The future will > tell. > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 24/03/2013 12:20 a.m., steven hart wrote: >> Maybe we should try to cross my Twin Habranthus with your Double / >> Twin Zephyranthes, I wonder if that is even possible ??? >> >> Steven Esk QLD Australia >> >> if it is a true double it would be wonderful & would be fun to see >> if you can breed different colours with it... > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:53:45 +0000 > From: Alberto Castillo > Subject: Re: [pbs] What I saw in bloom > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Right now around Buenos Aires, its natural habitat, is still in massive > bloom but some capsules are open and shedding seeds. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:42:43 -0700 > From: "Rodger Whitlock" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <514DF7A3.12665.3996@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On 22 Mar 2013, at 10:33, Michael Mace wrote: > >> Personal opinion: we won't be able to really make sense of the genus >> [Narcissus] without genetic analysis. > > Personal opinion: genetic analysis won't help much. > > It's pretty clear that on the Iberian peninsula, the genus Narcissus is > undergoing active speciation. The fixed category "species" just doesn't > work very well under such circumstances, just as it's of questionable > utility in paleontology. (The paleontological day is saved thanks (a) to > the fact that only a tiny subset of all organisms is fossilized and (b) > per Stephen Jay Gould, active speciation is a relatively fast process, so > fossilization of true intermediates would be rare. > > It strikes me that the situation with Iberian narcissus may be like that > with the Pacific Coast irises, where logging has created "bio-ways" > linking distinct species and allowing them to hybridize freely. I've read > that some of the PCI species are actually at risk of being hybridized out > of existence. > > The usual definition of species is a population of plants that can breed > together but does not _or_cannot_ breed with other species. When > interbreeding is prevented by ecological barriers, if those barriers are > disrupted, suddenly formerly good species stop looking so good. > > Human habitation of the Iberian Peninsula goes back some tens of thousands > of years. It may be that the clearing of forests and similar ecological > degradation lies at the root of the complexities of Iberian narcissus. > > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:28:34 -0700 (PDT) > From: arcangelo wessells > Subject: [pbs] hello, what's blooming in my garden > To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" > Message-ID: > <1364092114.51091.YahooMailNeo@web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hello everyone. My name is Arcangelo Wessells. I have been a member just > over one year but this is my first post. I live in Vallejo, ?CA. Just at > the East end of the San Francisco bay area. I have a small garden so I > have resorted to ?small slow growing plants to extend the joy of > gardening. I raise plants from seed in pots but I try to get them in the > ground as soon as possible. Some bulbs disappear quickly but others are > tough and I am much fond of the way they look in the ground. I am trying > to make it look as natural as possible. I am interested mainly in Paeonia, > Gethyllis, Fritillaria and Calochortus. I will have more photos to share > later this year, but many of my plants are still to young to flower. I am > also very interested in Castilleja and Orobanche and other parasitic > plants. > So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out. It rained last > week and really made the flower more beautiful. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584723952/in/photostream/ > > > ??Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today. A bit harder to photograph. It > works best at 7am as I go to work. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584827054/in/photostream/ > > and > http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8583649227/in/photostream > > > Also some Trillium ovatum: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584758180/in/photostream/ > > > They are my first flowers on seed grown plants from Archibalds. Paeonia > californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to cross them in > the future. > > arcangelo > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:33:42 -0700 > From: Hannon > Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Rodger makes some excellent points. There seem to be similar phenomena in > epiphytic rhododendrons and bromeliads, where disturbance such as road > building or logging creates light gaps that alter the behavior of > pollinators and modify opportunities for the plants. Some vireyas are > relatively uncommon in closed-canopy forest but roadsides in the same > forest can create ideal secondary habitat for them to thrive and meet with > congeners they would otherwise be more isolated from. The case is probably > more dynamic with bromeliads like Guzmania species since their seeds are > wind-dispersed. > > Regarding Narcissus, it's too bad there is not a formal taxonomic rank of > "species complex" for a suite of closely allied taxa that may intergrade > with one another-- or may be actively diverging from one common ancestor. > > Dylan > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:03:03 -0700 (PDT) > From: "J. Denys Bourque" > Subject: [pbs] Overwintering Nerine bowdenii > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > <1364058183.39767.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Last fall I asked the group for advice on overwintering Nerine bowdenii > indoors. > I got a variety of answers for which I was/am very grateful. But it seemed > not many had experience with this species in USA Zone 3. I finally left > them in their pot and positioned it about 1 m = 3 ft from the patio door > and 20 cm = 8 in. from the radiator and stopped watering them. > > Low and behold, one sprouted 2 wks ago, and the 3 others yesterday, with 2 > babies as a bonus. > > I'm very happy, and wanted to share this with you all. > > ? > J. Denys Bourque > Ing?nieur forestier / Professional Forester > 19, rue Michaud > Saint-Jacques, NB?? E7B 1M1 > CANADA > T?l./Tel. : +1 506 739-6471 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) > From: "J. Denys Bourque" > Subject: [pbs] Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > <1364059053.23113.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dear all, > I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I > searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate > any advice on this: > 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" (tubers??) > sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets almost all > the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant the "welded" > part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. of the tips > above the soil. But then, considering the presence of rootlets near the > tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch sideways. > 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, also with > long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but apparently broken > off at the other end. These I thought of planting sideways. > 3. How deep should I plant them? > Grateful for any advice. > > Sincerely, > ? > J. Denys Bourque > Saint-Jacques, NB?? CANADA > Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 07:56:20 +0100 > From: Bulborum Botanicum > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Denys > > I plant them just as Dahlia > > Roland > > > 2013/3/23 J. Denys Bourque : >> Dear all, >> I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I >> searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate >> any advice on this: >> 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" >> (tubers??) sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets >> almost all the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant >> the "welded" part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. >> of the tips above the soil. But then, considering the presence of >> rootlets near the tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch >> sideways. >> 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, >> also with long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but >> apparently broken off at the other end. These I thought of planting >> sideways. >> 3. How deep should I plant them? >> Grateful for any advice. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> J. Denys Bourque >> Saint-Jacques, NB CANADA >> Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:02:11 +0100 (CET) > From: Mark BROWN > Subject: Re: [pbs] hello, what's blooming in my garden: hybrids > between californian paeonia > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <1635967466.2604.1364112131354.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f18> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Dear Arcangelo, > I fully encourage you in your idea of hybridising these paeonia. > I have often dreamed of doing just that. And wondered if any one had ever > tried? > Anyone know of hybrids between californian paeonia and the other species? > ? > Mark > > > > > >> Message du 24/03/13 03:28 > " So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out. > ? Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today. > ?Paeonia californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to > cross them in the future. >> >> arcangelo" > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 33 > ************************************ > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jimlykos@bigpond.com Wed, 27 Mar 2013 00:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <6988F64F356D4361BD996C4D79D11F62@AnniesLaptop> From: "Jim Lykos" Subject: narcissus species Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:06:59 +1100 Thanks Luc Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc G. Bulot" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] narcissus species Dear Jim(s), You can download the first paper here : http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs00606-008-0015-1 and the second one here : http://www.rjb.csic.es/jardinbotanico/ficheros/documentos/pdf/anales/2010/Anales_67_1_29-39.pdf Hope this helps, Luc Le 18/03/2013 18:15, Jim Lykos a écrit : > Hello Ben, > > I would be very interested in reading your pdf article on the taxaonomy of > narcissus species. > Could you please email me a copy > Many thanks > > Jim Lykos > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zonneveld, B.J.M." > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:04 AM > Subject: [pbs] narcissus species > > >> I like to remind you that I wrote an article on the taxonomy of all >> narcissus species, based on 375 accessions, in 2008 in Plant systematics >> and evolution 275: 109-132 and a second article on the origin of N bujei >> in >> Anales del Jardin Botanico Madrid 67(1): 29-39. Both are based on nuclear >> DNA content >> I can send a pdf to those interested >> >> Kind regards, >> >> B.J.M.Zonneveld >> >> >> >> T +31 (0)71 527 47 38, T +31 (0)71 527 50 08 >> Einsteinweg 2, P.O. Box 9514, 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands >> E ben.zonneveld@naturalis.nl, I www.naturalis.nl >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org >> [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >> On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >> Sent: zondag 24 maart 2013 9:02 >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 33 >> >> Send pbs mailing list submissions to >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than >> "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." >> >> >> List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: ID request (Fred Biasella) >> 2. Re: ID request (Mary Sue Ittner) >> 3. Re: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid (Ina) >> 4. Re: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid (Ina) >> 5. Re: What I saw in bloom (Alberto Castillo) >> 6. Re: Identifying Narcissus species (Rodger Whitlock) >> 7. hello, what's blooming in my garden (arcangelo wessells) >> 8. Re: Identifying Narcissus species (Hannon) >> 9. Overwintering Nerine bowdenii (J. Denys Bourque) >> 10. Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus (J. Denys Bourque) >> 11. Re: Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus (Bulborum Botanicum) >> 12. Re: hello, what's blooming in my garden: hybrids between >> californian paeonia (Mark BROWN) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:35:59 -0400 >> From: "Fred Biasella" >> Subject: Re: [pbs] ID request >> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> Hi Ben, >> >> It almost looks like a spiloxene. >> >> Fred >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org >> [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Ben Anderson >> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:53 AM >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: [pbs] ID request >> >> >> Anyone have a name on this unknown? It has been blooming the last few >> weeks and is now winding down. Apparently a winter grower here in the SF >> bay area... >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/btanderson/8578251303/in/photostream >> >> Thanks, >> Ben Anderson >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:14:56 -0700 >> From: Mary Sue Ittner >> Subject: Re: [pbs] ID request >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <20130323171520.807BCE8B8C@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> Spiloxene serrata is one of the longest blooming species. This year with >> a >> dry January, February, and March it is really been putting on a show as >> there have been a lot more sunny days with enough warmth for the flowers >> to open. It started blooming in December and is still blooming in March. >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Spiloxene#serrata >> >> It may not be as spectacular as Spiloxene capensis, but it is a much more >> reliable and longer bloomer. I suspect this is what your unknown is. >> >> Mary Sue >> >> Mary Sue Ittner >> California's North Coast >> Wet mild winters with occasional frost >> Dry mild summers >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:06:05 +1300 >> From: Ina >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Zephyranthes primulina hybrid >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <514E0B2D.3080002@orcon.net.nz> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Only the one bulb had 2 doubles like this Steven. Until I accidentally >> broke a flower off, and then there was one..... :'( >> >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> On 24/03/2013 12:23 a.m., steven hart wrote: >>> Ina i was also wondering if every flower on this plant is double ? >>> >>> On 22 March 2013 20:06, Ina wrote: >>>> What I found in my garden today >>>> >>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHab >>>> ranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 >>>> >>>> Ina >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ina Crossley >>>> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:09:57 +1300 >> From: Ina >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Zephyranthes primulina hybrid >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <514E0C15.9010702@orcon.net.nz> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Stev, they are twinned, I looked at the embryo seedheads yesterday and as >> you say, they are slightly flattened. Felix Fajar Martha says that >> eventually I should be able to get it into a double. The future will >> tell. >> >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> On 24/03/2013 12:20 a.m., steven hart wrote: >>> Maybe we should try to cross my Twin Habranthus with your Double / >>> Twin Zephyranthes, I wonder if that is even possible ??? >>> >>> Steven Esk QLD Australia >>> >>> if it is a true double it would be wonderful & would be fun to see >>> if you can breed different colours with it... >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:53:45 +0000 >> From: Alberto Castillo >> Subject: Re: [pbs] What I saw in bloom >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> Right now around Buenos Aires, its natural habitat, is still in massive >> bloom but some capsules are open and shedding seeds. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:42:43 -0700 >> From: "Rodger Whitlock" >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <514DF7A3.12665.3996@localhost> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> On 22 Mar 2013, at 10:33, Michael Mace wrote: >> >>> Personal opinion: we won't be able to really make sense of the genus >>> [Narcissus] without genetic analysis. >> Personal opinion: genetic analysis won't help much. >> >> It's pretty clear that on the Iberian peninsula, the genus Narcissus is >> undergoing active speciation. The fixed category "species" just doesn't >> work very well under such circumstances, just as it's of questionable >> utility in paleontology. (The paleontological day is saved thanks (a) to >> the fact that only a tiny subset of all organisms is fossilized and (b) >> per Stephen Jay Gould, active speciation is a relatively fast process, so >> fossilization of true intermediates would be rare. >> >> It strikes me that the situation with Iberian narcissus may be like that >> with the Pacific Coast irises, where logging has created "bio-ways" >> linking distinct species and allowing them to hybridize freely. I've read >> that some of the PCI species are actually at risk of being hybridized out >> of existence. >> >> The usual definition of species is a population of plants that can breed >> together but does not _or_cannot_ breed with other species. When >> interbreeding is prevented by ecological barriers, if those barriers are >> disrupted, suddenly formerly good species stop looking so good. >> >> Human habitation of the Iberian Peninsula goes back some tens of >> thousands >> of years. It may be that the clearing of forests and similar ecological >> degradation lies at the root of the complexities of Iberian narcissus. >> >> >> >> -- >> Rodger Whitlock >> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >> Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:28:34 -0700 (PDT) >> From: arcangelo wessells >> Subject: [pbs] hello, what's blooming in my garden >> To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" >> Message-ID: >> <1364092114.51091.YahooMailNeo@web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Hello everyone. My name is Arcangelo Wessells. I have been a member just >> over one year but this is my first post. I live in Vallejo, ?CA. Just at >> the East end of the San Francisco bay area. I have a small garden so I >> have resorted to ?small slow growing plants to extend the joy of >> gardening. I raise plants from seed in pots but I try to get them in the >> ground as soon as possible. Some bulbs disappear quickly but others are >> tough and I am much fond of the way they look in the ground. I am trying >> to make it look as natural as possible. I am interested mainly in >> Paeonia, >> Gethyllis, Fritillaria and Calochortus. I will have more photos to share >> later this year, but many of my plants are still to young to flower. I am >> also very interested in Castilleja and Orobanche and other parasitic >> plants. >> So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out. It rained last >> week and really made the flower more beautiful. >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584723952/in/photostream/ >> >> >> ??Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today. A bit harder to photograph. It >> works best at 7am as I go to work. >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584827054/in/photostream/ >> >> and >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8583649227/in/photostream >> >> >> Also some Trillium ovatum: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584758180/in/photostream/ >> >> >> They are my first flowers on seed grown plants from Archibalds. Paeonia >> californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to cross them >> in >> the future. >> >> arcangelo >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:33:42 -0700 >> From: Hannon >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Rodger makes some excellent points. There seem to be similar phenomena in >> epiphytic rhododendrons and bromeliads, where disturbance such as road >> building or logging creates light gaps that alter the behavior of >> pollinators and modify opportunities for the plants. Some vireyas are >> relatively uncommon in closed-canopy forest but roadsides in the same >> forest can create ideal secondary habitat for them to thrive and meet >> with >> congeners they would otherwise be more isolated from. The case is >> probably >> more dynamic with bromeliads like Guzmania species since their seeds are >> wind-dispersed. >> >> Regarding Narcissus, it's too bad there is not a formal taxonomic rank of >> "species complex" for a suite of closely allied taxa that may intergrade >> with one another-- or may be actively diverging from one common ancestor. >> >> Dylan >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:03:03 -0700 (PDT) >> From: "J. Denys Bourque" >> Subject: [pbs] Overwintering Nerine bowdenii >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> <1364058183.39767.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Last fall I asked the group for advice on overwintering Nerine bowdenii >> indoors. >> I got a variety of answers for which I was/am very grateful. But it >> seemed >> not many had experience with this species in USA Zone 3. I finally left >> them in their pot and positioned it about 1 m = 3 ft from the patio door >> and 20 cm = 8 in. from the radiator and stopped watering them. >> >> Low and behold, one sprouted 2 wks ago, and the 3 others yesterday, with >> 2 >> babies as a bonus. >> >> I'm very happy, and wanted to share this with you all. >> >> ? >> J. Denys Bourque >> Ing?nieur forestier / Professional Forester >> 19, rue Michaud >> Saint-Jacques, NB?? E7B 1M1 >> CANADA >> T?l./Tel. : +1 506 739-6471 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) >> From: "J. Denys Bourque" >> Subject: [pbs] Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> <1364059053.23113.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Dear all, >> I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I >> searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate >> any advice on this: >> 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" >> (tubers??) >> sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets almost all >> the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant the >> "welded" >> part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. of the tips >> above the soil. But then, considering the presence of rootlets near the >> tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch sideways. >> 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, also with >> long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but apparently broken >> off at the other end. These I thought of planting sideways. >> 3. How deep should I plant them? >> Grateful for any advice. >> >> Sincerely, >> ? >> J. Denys Bourque >> Saint-Jacques, NB?? CANADA >> Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 07:56:20 +0100 >> From: Bulborum Botanicum >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi Denys >> >> I plant them just as Dahlia >> >> Roland >> >> >> 2013/3/23 J. Denys Bourque : >>> Dear all, >>> I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I >>> searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate >>> any advice on this: >>> 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" >>> (tubers??) sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets >>> almost all the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant >>> the "welded" part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. >>> of the tips above the soil. But then, considering the presence of >>> rootlets near the tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch >>> sideways. >>> 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, >>> also with long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but >>> apparently broken off at the other end. These I thought of planting >>> sideways. >>> 3. How deep should I plant them? >>> Grateful for any advice. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> J. Denys Bourque >>> Saint-Jacques, NB CANADA >>> Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> -- >> R de Boer >> La Maugardiere 1 >> F 27260 EPAIGNES >> FRANCE >> >> Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 >> Email: bulborum@gmail.com >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:02:11 +0100 (CET) >> From: Mark BROWN >> Subject: Re: [pbs] hello, what's blooming in my garden: hybrids >> between californian paeonia >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <1635967466.2604.1364112131354.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f18> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> Dear Arcangelo, >> I fully encourage you in your idea of hybridising these paeonia. >> I have often dreamed of doing just that. And wondered if any one had ever >> tried? >> Anyone know of hybrids between californian paeonia and the other species? >> ? >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >>> Message du 24/03/13 03:28 >> " So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out. >> ? Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today. >> ?Paeonia californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to >> cross them in the future. >>> arcangelo" >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> End of pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 33 >> ************************************ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Trillium angustipetalum syn. T. kurabayashii Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 16:39:46 -0700 I was comparing some trilliums starting to flower in the garden under the names T. kurabayashii and T. chloropetalum, so I researched them online. I see that the name T. angustipetalum has superseded T. kurabayashii for red-flowered trilliums, and that T. chloropetalum is now apparently restricted to the whitish-flowered ones in California. Both are sessile trilliums. Around here most people grow a form of T. angustipetalum from southern Oregon, known at least for a long time as kurabayashii; it can grow very large, reaching at least 65 cm in flower, with huge leaves. I also have a plant sent me by my brother, who dug it up while planting apple trees in an orchard in Tuolumne County, California. It's considerably smaller than "kurabayashii" but is within what CalFlora defines as T. angustipetalum. Can one of our California flora experts tell me if the large Oregon population is the same as the smaller California one, or if it is considered a subspecies? Thanks, Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1363737784.14190.YahooMailClassic@web161004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Trillium angustipetalum syn. T. kurabayashii Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Jane,  Which treatment takes this approach? The FNA treatment was written by case and recognizes those that are in his book as well.  My advisor and I have a phylogeny (mostly as evidence of a new species from Tennessee) coming out soon on Phyllantherum in the southeastern US, but it lacks all but the western albidum. I am looking for as many as possible of the western species and numerous populations of each if possible --- i do not want living plants though. This may help to clarify the nomenclature some.  I have never seen the type of chloropetalum, but the chloro- suggests that it is not purple.  Aaron   --- On Wed, 3/20/13, Jane McGary wrote: From: Jane McGary Subject: [pbs] Trillium angustipetalum syn. T. kurabayashii To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2013, 7:39 AM I was comparing some trilliums starting to flower in the garden under the names T. kurabayashii and T. chloropetalum, so I researched them online. I see that the name T. angustipetalum has superseded T. kurabayashii for red-flowered trilliums, and that T. chloropetalum is now apparently restricted to the whitish-flowered ones in California. Both are sessile trilliums. Around here most people grow a form of T. angustipetalum from southern Oregon, known at least for a long time as kurabayashii; it can grow very large, reaching at least 65 cm in flower, with huge leaves. I also have a plant sent me by my brother, who dug it up while planting apple trees in an orchard in Tuolumne County, California. It's considerably smaller than "kurabayashii" but is within what CalFlora defines as T. angustipetalum. Can one of our California flora experts tell me if the large Oregon population is the same as the smaller California one, or if it is considered a subspecies? Thanks, Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From plicht@berkeley.edu Tue, 19 Mar 2013 18:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5149062B.5000607@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Trillium angustipetalum syn. T. kurabayashii Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:43:23 -0700 Our large stand of chloropetalum ranges from very white to rich purple. It is next to a stand of T. albidum which is all white. They are almost identical except for the anther filaments: white in albidum and pink to purple in chloropetalum Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 3/19/2013 5:03 PM, aaron floden wrote: > Jane, > > Which treatment takes this approach? The FNA treatment was written by case and recognizes those that are in his book as well. > > My advisor and I have a phylogeny (mostly as evidence of a new species from Tennessee) coming out soon on Phyllantherum in the southeastern US, but it lacks all but the western albidum. I am looking for as many as possible of the western species and numerous populations of each if possible --- i do not want living plants though. This may help to clarify the nomenclature some. > > I have never seen the type of chloropetalum, but the chloro- suggests that it is not purple. > > Aaron > > > > --- On Wed, 3/20/13, Jane McGary wrote: > > From: Jane McGary > Subject: [pbs] Trillium angustipetalum syn. T. kurabayashii > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2013, 7:39 AM > > I was comparing some trilliums starting to flower in the garden under > the names T. kurabayashii and T. chloropetalum, so I researched them > online. I see that the name T. angustipetalum has superseded T. > kurabayashii for red-flowered trilliums, and that T. chloropetalum is > now apparently restricted to the whitish-flowered ones in California. > Both are sessile trilliums. Around here most people grow a form of T. > angustipetalum from southern Oregon, known at least for a long time > as kurabayashii; it can grow very large, reaching at least 65 cm in > flower, with huge leaves. I also have a plant sent me by my brother, > who dug it up while planting apple trees in an orchard in Tuolumne > County, California. It's considerably smaller than "kurabayashii" but > is within what CalFlora defines as T. angustipetalum. > > Can one of our California flora experts tell me if the large Oregon > population is the same as the smaller California one, or if it is > considered a subspecies? > > Thanks, > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From threesisters@woosh.co.nz Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:29:13 +1300 Ina, I have done a bit of detective work here and rang the Auckland Botanic Gardens this morning regarding the seed you collected. Yvonne Baker (Botanical Records Officer) told me that they do not have iris laevigata in the garden but they do have several iris ensata hybrids in their collection. You should get some nice seedlings out of the mix with the open pollination. Should you require more seed please contact me privately as I have just collected from last seasons bloom. Kind regards, Darlene Cook -----Original Message----- From: Ina Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 11:23 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head In which case, I was just now reading, that if it is, it likes water even more than the ensata ones. Will keep that in mind. Thankyou Peterand everyone who responded. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 16/03/2013 11:03 p.m., Peter Taggart wrote: > Ina, > your initial picture of the seed pods was quite clear , I am sure that it > is Iris laevigata. I have heard that some pople would combine the species > ensata and laevigata though. Ensata has a pointed top in my experiance. > (Incidently the pods also resemble Iris clarkii a little) > Peter (UK) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <514913C7.1000304@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:41:27 +1300 Hello Darlene I know Yvonne, over time one gets to know the people. However, I was not phoning them to ask as one is NOT ALLOWED to collect seeds from there..... ;-) Nor bulbs.... Thank you for that, now I will see what they do. I don't actually have room for more Irises, but collecting seed is so tempting and then one has to grow them, and then....... Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 20/03/2013 2:29 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: > Ina, > > I have done a bit of detective work here and rang the Auckland Botanic > Gardens this morning regarding the seed you collected. Yvonne Baker > (Botanical Records Officer) told me that they do not have > iris laevigata in the garden but they do have several iris ensata hybrids > in their collection. You should get some nice seedlings out of the mix > with the open pollination. Should you require more seed please > contact me privately as I have just collected from last seasons bloom. > > Kind regards, > > Darlene Cook > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ina > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 11:23 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > > In which case, I was just now reading, that if it is, it likes water > even more than the ensata ones. Will keep that in mind. Thankyou > Peterand everyone who responded. > > Ina > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 16/03/2013 11:03 p.m., Peter Taggart wrote: >> Ina, >> your initial picture of the seed pods was quite clear , I am sure that it >> is Iris laevigata. I have heard that some pople would combine the species >> ensata and laevigata though. Ensata has a pointed top in my experiance. >> (Incidently the pods also resemble Iris clarkii a little) >> Peter (UK) >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From threesisters@woosh.co.nz Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <12DB49531EEE40F69E920165D66255BE@DarleneHP> From: Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:05:17 +1300 All is well Ina, I had other issues to discuss with Yvonne, our local group is going to source some different species of iris for the gardens and Yvonne just bought 14+acres out West here so we will get some irises to her for the property. She recently returned from a trip to China where she saw many species of irises growing there. I immediately thought of Jim Waddick, and I suggested she get a copy of his book 'Irises Of China'. WE always have room for more plants! Darlene Cook Auckland, New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: Ina Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:41 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head Hello Darlene I know Yvonne, over time one gets to know the people. However, I was not phoning them to ask as one is NOT ALLOWED to collect seeds from there..... ;-) Nor bulbs.... Thank you for that, now I will see what they do. I don't actually have room for more Irises, but collecting seed is so tempting and then one has to grow them, and then....... Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 20/03/2013 2:29 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: > Ina, > > I have done a bit of detective work here and rang the Auckland Botanic > Gardens this morning regarding the seed you collected. Yvonne Baker > (Botanical Records Officer) told me that they do not have > iris laevigata in the garden but they do have several iris ensata hybrids > in their collection. You should get some nice seedlings out of the mix > with the open pollination. Should you require more seed please > contact me privately as I have just collected from last seasons bloom. > > Kind regards, > > Darlene Cook > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ina > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 11:23 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > > In which case, I was just now reading, that if it is, it likes water > even more than the ensata ones. Will keep that in mind. Thankyou > Peterand everyone who responded. > > Ina > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 16/03/2013 11:03 p.m., Peter Taggart wrote: >> Ina, >> your initial picture of the seed pods was quite clear , I am sure that it >> is Iris laevigata. I have heard that some pople would combine the species >> ensata and laevigata though. Ensata has a pointed top in my experiance. >> (Incidently the pods also resemble Iris clarkii a little) >> Peter (UK) >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <51491C3C.4010800@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:17:32 +1300 :-) :-) :-) Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 20/03/2013 3:05 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: > All is well Ina, I had other issues to discuss with Yvonne, our local group > is going to source some different species of iris for the gardens > and Yvonne just bought 14+acres out West here so we will get some irises to > her for the property. She recently returned from a trip to China > where she saw many species of irises growing there. I immediately thought > of Jim Waddick, and I suggested she get a copy of his book 'Irises Of > China'. > > WE always have room for more plants! > > Darlene Cook > Auckland, New Zealand > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ina > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:41 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > > Hello Darlene > > I know Yvonne, over time one gets to know the people. However, I was > not phoning them to ask as one is NOT ALLOWED to collect seeds from > there..... ;-) > > Nor bulbs.... > > Thank you for that, now I will see what they do. I don't actually have > room for more Irises, but collecting seed is so tempting and then one > has to grow them, and then....... > > Ina > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 20/03/2013 2:29 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: >> Ina, >> >> I have done a bit of detective work here and rang the Auckland Botanic >> Gardens this morning regarding the seed you collected. Yvonne Baker >> (Botanical Records Officer) told me that they do not have >> iris laevigata in the garden but they do have several iris ensata hybrids >> in their collection. You should get some nice seedlings out of the mix >> with the open pollination. Should you require more seed please >> contact me privately as I have just collected from last seasons bloom. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Darlene Cook >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ina >> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 11:23 PM >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head >> >> In which case, I was just now reading, that if it is, it likes water >> even more than the ensata ones. Will keep that in mind. Thankyou >> Peterand everyone who responded. >> >> Ina >> >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> On 16/03/2013 11:03 p.m., Peter Taggart wrote: >>> Ina, >>> your initial picture of the seed pods was quite clear , I am sure that it >>> is Iris laevigata. I have heard that some pople would combine the species >>> ensata and laevigata though. Ensata has a pointed top in my experiance. >>> (Incidently the pods also resemble Iris clarkii a little) >>> Peter (UK) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From Jadeboy48@aol.com Tue, 19 Mar 2013 23:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <17685.4af7528d.3e7aa3ca@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 01:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Believe me anyone can grow any type of iris from seed,. Raising several thousand seeds of year for a living, I find just get a good book on iris. Different types may or may not need chilling to sprout. If you are interested in iris there is an excellent American Iris Society. They have a section just devoted to raising species. You can buy farm raised iris from all over asia without problems. They should include a phytosanitary certificate to prove the plants have been inspected and declared disease free.Good luck -Russ Hintz In a message dated 3/19/2013 7:17:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, klazina@orcon.net.nz writes: :-) :-) :-) Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 20/03/2013 3:05 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: > All is well Ina, I had other issues to discuss with Yvonne, our local group > is going to source some different species of iris for the gardens > and Yvonne just bought 14+acres out West here so we will get some irises to > her for the property. She recently returned from a trip to China > where she saw many species of irises growing there. I immediately thought > of Jim Waddick, and I suggested she get a copy of his book 'Irises Of > China'. > > WE always have room for more plants! > > Darlene Cook > Auckland, New Zealand > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ina > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:41 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > > Hello Darlene > > I know Yvonne, over time one gets to know the people. However, I was > not phoning them to ask as one is NOT ALLOWED to collect seeds from > there..... ;-) > > Nor bulbs.... > > Thank you for that, now I will see what they do. I don't actually have > room for more Irises, but collecting seed is so tempting and then one > has to grow them, and then....... > > Ina > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 20/03/2013 2:29 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: >> Ina, >> >> I have done a bit of detective work here and rang the Auckland Botanic >> Gardens this morning regarding the seed you collected. Yvonne Baker >> (Botanical Records Officer) told me that they do not have >> iris laevigata in the garden but they do have several iris ensata hybrids >> in their collection. You should get some nice seedlings out of the mix >> with the open pollination. Should you require more seed please >> contact me privately as I have just collected from last seasons bloom. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Darlene Cook >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ina >> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 11:23 PM >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head >> >> In which case, I was just now reading, that if it is, it likes water >> even more than the ensata ones. Will keep that in mind. Thankyou >> Peterand everyone who responded. >> >> Ina >> >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> On 16/03/2013 11:03 p.m., Peter Taggart wrote: >>> Ina, >>> your initial picture of the seed pods was quite clear , I am sure that it >>> is Iris laevigata. I have heard that some pople would combine the species >>> ensata and laevigata though. Ensata has a pointed top in my experiance. >>> (Incidently the pods also resemble Iris clarkii a little) >>> Peter (UK) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Tue, 19 Mar 2013 23:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <51494E48.8050307@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 18:51:04 +1300 Thank you Russ. I actually don't have space for more Iris, but the lure of growing these seeds is strong. Have just biffed 3 plants from my garden..... Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 20/03/2013 6:31 p.m., Jadeboy48@aol.com wrote: > Believe me anyone can grow any type of iris from seed,. Raising several > thousand seeds of year for a living, I find just get a good book on iris. > Different types may or may not need chilling to sprout. If you are interested > in iris there is an excellent American Iris Society. They have a section > just devoted to raising species. You can buy farm raised iris from all over > asia without problems. They should include a phytosanitary certificate to > prove the plants have been inspected and declared disease free.Good luck -Russ > Hintz > > > In a message dated 3/19/2013 7:17:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > klazina@orcon.net.nz writes: > > :-) :-) :-) > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 20/03/2013 3:05 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: >> All is well Ina, I had other issues to discuss with Yvonne, our local > group >> is going to source some different species of iris for the gardens >> and Yvonne just bought 14+acres out West here so we will get some > irises to >> her for the property. She recently returned from a trip to China >> where she saw many species of irises growing there. I immediately > thought >> of Jim Waddick, and I suggested she get a copy of his book 'Irises Of >> China'. >> >> WE always have room for more plants! >> >> Darlene Cook >> Auckland, New Zealand >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ina >> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:41 PM >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head >> >> Hello Darlene >> >> I know Yvonne, over time one gets to know the people. However, I was >> not phoning them to ask as one is NOT ALLOWED to collect seeds from >> there..... ;-) >> >> Nor bulbs.... >> >> Thank you for that, now I will see what they do. I don't actually have >> room for more Irises, but collecting seed is so tempting and then one >> has to grow them, and then....... >> >> Ina >> >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> On 20/03/2013 2:29 p.m., threesisters@woosh.co.nz wrote: >>> Ina, >>> >>> I have done a bit of detective work here and rang the Auckland Botanic >>> Gardens this morning regarding the seed you collected. Yvonne Baker >>> (Botanical Records Officer) told me that they do not have >>> iris laevigata in the garden but they do have several iris ensata > hybrids >>> in their collection. You should get some nice seedlings out of the > mix >>> with the open pollination. Should you require more seed please >>> contact me privately as I have just collected from last seasons bloom. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Darlene Cook >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ina >>> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 11:23 PM >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head >>> >>> In which case, I was just now reading, that if it is, it likes water >>> even more than the ensata ones. Will keep that in mind. Thankyou >>> Peterand everyone who responded. >>> >>> Ina >>> >>> Ina Crossley >>> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >>> >>> On 16/03/2013 11:03 p.m., Peter Taggart wrote: >>>> Ina, >>>> your initial picture of the seed pods was quite clear , I am sure that > it >>>> is Iris laevigata. I have heard that some pople would combine the > species >>>> ensata and laevigata though. Ensata has a pointed top in my > experiance. >>>> (Incidently the pods also resemble Iris clarkii a little) >>>> Peter (UK) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From silkie@frontiernet.net Wed, 20 Mar 2013 01:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <079101ce253f$21cc7d60$65657820$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 00:47:10 -0700 Can you recommend any books? Colleen NE Calif. Currently a balmy 47F -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jadeboy48@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:32 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head Believe me anyone can grow any type of iris from seed,. Raising several thousand seeds of year for a living, I find just get a good book on iris. Different types may or may not need chilling to sprout. If you are interested in iris there is an excellent American Iris Society. They have a section just devoted to raising species. You can buy farm raised iris from all over asia without problems. They should include a phytosanitary certificate to prove the plants have been inspected and declared disease free.Good luck -Russ Hintz From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 20 Mar 2013 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1363777635.82964.YahooMailNeo@web84504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 04:07:15 -0700 (PDT)  biffed ?????? Jim McKenney From ds429@comcast.net Wed, 20 Mar 2013 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <000001ce2579$e0580b20$a1082160$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 334 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:45:35 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 334" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mary Sue Ittner: Seed: 1. Gloriosa modesta (Littonia modesta) - summer growing 2. Tigridia vanhouttei - summer growing Bulbs: 3. Oxalis triangularis- evergreen if you keep watering it 4. Oxalis sp. Mexico- summer growing http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiscellaneousOxalis#sp From Stephen Gregg 5. Seeds of Habranthus martinezii x H. robustus From Jim Waddick and the Species Iris Group of North America: (SEEDS) 6. Moraea polystachya 7. Iris tectorum 'Album' 8. Iris tectorum, mixed 9. Geissorhiza "falcata" (???) 10. Herbertia lahue 11. Crocosmia ex 'Lucifer; 12. Calydorea amabilis 13. Cypella (syn Phalocallis) coelestis 14. Dietes iridioides 15. Romulea monticola 16. Herbertia pulchella 17. Dietes bicolor 18. Freesia laxa, blue 19. Watsonia ex 'Frosty Morn' 20. Crocosmia paniculata 21. Gelasine elongata Thank you, Mary Sue, Stephen, and SIGNA !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: <514A013E.5090000@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 07:34:38 +1300 This must be a NZ term. It means thrown out, got rid of. I looked it up and online none of the meanings are what it means here. So won't use it again. :-( Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 21/03/2013 12:07 a.m., Jim McKenney wrote: > biffed ?????? > > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3646B474-73FA-46C2-892E-14BDE0524003@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:46:03 -0500 Dear Russ On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:31 AM, Jadeboy48@aol.com wrote: > You can buy farm raised iris from all over asia without problems. Oh really? Can you give me the contact info for a few growers that might sell Iris songarica or Iris rossii? or do you mean garden cultivars of bearded iris? Best Jim W. From pcamusa@hotmail.com Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:46:36 -0400 Biffed is american slang for punched (as in hit)- the term was more commonly used last century (early). We probably got it from the Brits. I think its a perfectly appropriate gardening term, particularly if the plant in question is a thug. -Phil > Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 07:34:38 +1300 > From: klazina@orcon.net.nz > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > > This must be a NZ term. It means thrown out, got rid of. I looked it > up and online none of the meanings are what it means here. So won't use > it again. :-( > > Ina > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 21/03/2013 12:07 a.m., Jim McKenney wrote: > > biffed ?????? > > > > > > Jim McKenney > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From silkie@frontiernet.net Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <088f01ce25a1$c896a000$59c3e000$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:33:19 -0700 I have never been to New Zealand, but I have heard that term in that usage. Please don't stop using your terminology as we all can learn from you. Colleen NE Calif approx. z 5-6 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ina Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:35 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head This must be a NZ term. It means thrown out, got rid of. I looked it up and online none of the meanings are what it means here. So won't use it again. :-( Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 21/03/2013 12:07 a.m., Jim McKenney wrote: > biffed ?????? > > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <514A173C.1080103@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:08:28 +1300 Thank you Colleen. :-) Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 21/03/2013 8:33 a.m., Colleen wrote: > I have never been to New Zealand, but I have heard that term in that usage. > Please don't stop using your terminology as we all can learn from you. > > Colleen > NE Calif approx. z 5-6 > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Ina > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:35 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head > > This must be a NZ term. It means thrown out, got rid of. I looked it up > and online none of the meanings are what it means here. So won't use it > again. :-( > > Ina > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 21/03/2013 12:07 a.m., Jim McKenney wrote: >> biffed ?????? >> >> >> Jim McKenney >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1363821571.63824.YahooMailNeo@web84503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: ID Iris seed head Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Well, Ina, if you won't, I will. I've got plenty of biffing to do! It sounds nicer than V. Sackville-West's "hoiked".  Jim McKenney ________________________________ From: Ina To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] re ID Iris seed head This must be a NZ term.  It means thrown out, got rid of.  I looked it up and online none of the meanings are what it means here. So won't use it again. :-( Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand  Zone 10 On 21/03/2013 12:07 a.m., Jim McKenney wrote: >  biffed ?????? > > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@comcast.net Thu, 21 Mar 2013 06:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <000001ce2630$642a1bd0$2c7e5370$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 334 CLOSED Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 08:31:45 -0400 All claimed !! Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From msittner@mcn.org Thu, 21 Mar 2013 08:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <20130321143651.D645FE8C98@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 334 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 07:36:54 -0700 >9. Geissorhiza "falcata" (???) Since the identity of this was suspect, whoever asked for it could check out Hesperantha falcata or Hesperantha cucullata if and when it blooms. Some of the white Geissorhizas and Hesperanthas look very much alike. From the wiki: "Geissorhiza is quite similar to Hesperantha and superficially very difficult to tell apart although Geissorhiza blooms during the day and many Hesperantha species open late in the day. Most species of Geissorhiza have a style that divides above the anthers and in Hesperantha the style divides at the mouth of the tube." In the past I ordered seed from seed exchanges of quite a few things that were labeled with a variety of names that all turned out to be Hesperantha cucullata even though none of them were labeled that way (Hesperantha falcata from 4 different sources, Hesperantha pauciflora, Hesperantha buchnii which I think was a misspelling of H. buhrii which is a synonym for Hesperantha cucullata.) They weren't all completely the same as some opened earlier in the day and others were darker red/brown on the back. I don't think I ever grew Hesperantha falcata which is a smaller plant than H. cucullata. The only one I still have is the one from Wayne Roderick (misspelled H. buchnii). It opens earlier in the day and resembles the ones we saw in Nieuwoudtville. It has been blooming lately planted in the ground. If you look at the photos on the wiki of both H. falcata and H. cucullata you will understand why they can be misnamed and are difficult to tell apart. They have different corms however. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HesperanthaThree#falcata http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HesperanthaTwo#cucullata Mary Sue From jmeler.com@gmail.com Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joseph Meler Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:33:22 -0800 Jane: If you can wait a couple of weeks for the information, I have already ordered a discounted copy of the hardback edition of this book. Once it arrives, I would be happy to assist you in getting the information you requested. I hope this helps. Joseph Meler Los Angeles, CA On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > As usual this time of year, I'm wondering what to call the many > seed-grown Narcissus in my bulb beds. Browsing through the PBS wiki > sections on Narcissus led me to a discussion of classification by > Brian Mathew in the book "Narcissus and Daffodil," a collective > volume edited by Gordon R. Hanks and available through CRC. Whoever > wrote the introductory sections on our wiki apparently had access to > this chapter, but when I went looking for it, I found I could > download the book (most of which concerns the chemistry, especially > pharmacological, of Narcissus) for the princely sum of $117, or have > access to the chapter for 72 hours for only $20. I decided against > the whole book, but am wondering whether it makes sense to get access > for a short period to something I can't download separately and keep > for later reference. I suspect I couldn't print it off the screen, > either. Do any of our correspondents have an opinion on this? Will it > help me with Section Jonquilla, the major source of my frustration? > > I have John Blanchard's book "Narcissus: A guide to wild daffodils," > which we discussed a week or two ago, but in many cases it serves > mostly to assure the reader that he or she is not alone in being > confused about these plants. It also describes well-known natural > sites for many species, which helped, e.g., in examining two > collections of N. bulbocodium from Oukaimedin, Morocco--I think I got > ssp. bulbocodium in one case, and the intermediate with ssp. nivalis > in the other. > > I am tempted to call most of them hybrids anyway, though I did raise > quite a few from wild-collected seeds. In any case, they are bright, > vigorous, and fragrant, and most of them probably can move to the > garden successfully, as long as the bulb fly lets them. > > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:06:27 -0700 Joseph, Thank you for the offer, but someone else looked at a copy of the book in her univ. library and told me the chapter is descriptive only to the section level, whereas what I was hoping for was species descriptions. I'm resigned to being able to identify firmly only the more distinctive species within sections, and to regarding the less distinctive ones more or less as continua within a section. This doesn't trouble me much because I'm not selling bulbs any more -- just enjoying the plants. As for sending seed to exchanges, I don't suppose I would misname them any worse than anyone else does, but I wish there were a consistent way of warning those who order seeds that Narcissus hybridizes madly in cultivation, especially in an extremely diverse collection such as I grow. We can do this in the PBS exchange, but I wonder how many people grow hybrids and then send the seed out under species names. I know I was guilty of that when I started out, but now I hesitate to donate seed in genera where hybridization is relatively frequent. best regards, Jane McGary At 10:33 AM 3/21/2013, you wrote: >Jane: > >If you can wait a couple of weeks for the information, I have already >ordered a discounted copy of the hardback edition of this book. Once it >arrives, I would be happy to assist you in getting the information you >requested. I hope this helps. > >Joseph Meler >Los Angeles, CA From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:46:24 -0700 Jane, So what you're saying is that there is no monograph for Narcissus?? I'm almost at a loss for word since this is one of the most broadly grown in the bulb world. But then again, it's mostly hybrids that people grow. Nhu On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > someone else looked at a copy of the > book in her univ. library and told me the chapter is descriptive only > to the section level, whereas what I was hoping for was species > descriptions > From ksa2006@verizon.net Thu, 21 Mar 2013 13:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <004e01ce2665$e37410f0$aa5c32d0$@verizon.net> From: "Kathryn S. Andersen" Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 14:57:08 -0400 John Blanchard's book is the best source available at this time. A monograph is in the pipeline. Jane, If you could post some pictures of your unknown flowers with any information you might have, perhaps I could help with identification. Have just returned from another trip to Spain, perhaps the 40th where I have gone about 40 times since 1988. Saw N. longispathus again and many other species in the mountains southeast of Madrid. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nhu Nguyen Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:46 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species Jane, So what you're saying is that there is no monograph for Narcissus?? I'm almost at a loss for word since this is one of the most broadly grown in the bulb world. But then again, it's mostly hybrids that people grow. Nhu On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > someone else looked at a copy of the > book in her univ. library and told me the chapter is descriptive only > to the section level, whereas what I was hoping for was species > descriptions > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5749532F-8A26-414B-ACE5-2F3E73229596@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 14:00:20 -0500 Dear Jane and all, There is a key to some 43 European species of Narcissus in 'The European Garden Flora' Vol 1 including keys to ssp where appropriate. I notice N pseudonarcissus has 10 ssp keyed out with brief descriptions of all. The key was prepared by J. Cullen. Should be available, but email me if you want details. Best Jim W. From ksa2006@verizon.net Thu, 21 Mar 2013 13:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <005501ce2669$a2c4ef80$e84ece80$@verizon.net> From: "Kathryn S. Andersen" Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 15:23:57 -0400 There has been a monologue in the pipeline for several years. Do not look for it tomorrow! Until then, John Blanchard's book is the best available. Jane, if you could send some pictures of your unknown flowers, perhaps I could help identify them . Have just returned from the mountains southeast of Madrid where many species were in flower, including N. longispathus. I've gone looking for species yearly or more often since 1988, and what you have may look familiar. Any hints you might have would be helpful. Kathy Andersen From ksa2006@verizon.net Thu, 21 Mar 2013 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <007001ce267b$ee20e850$ca62b8f0$@verizon.net> From: "Kathryn S. Andersen" Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 17:34:55 -0400 Sorry for this message - it got away from me before I had finished it! Kathy Andersen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn S. Andersen Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:57 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species John Blanchard's book is the best source available at this time. A monograph is in the pipeline. Jane, If you could post some pictures of your unknown flowers with any information you might have, perhaps I could help with identification. Have just returned from another trip to Spain, perhaps the 40th where I have gone about 40 times since 1988. Saw N. longispathus again and many other species in the mountains southeast of Madrid. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nhu Nguyen Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:46 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species Jane, So what you're saying is that there is no monograph for Narcissus?? I'm almost at a loss for word since this is one of the most broadly grown in the bulb world. But then again, it's mostly hybrids that people grow. Nhu On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > someone else looked at a copy of the > book in her univ. library and told me the chapter is descriptive only > to the section level, whereas what I was hoping for was species > descriptions > From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Thu, 21 Mar 2013 17:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <063302B6-20A5-4374-850A-C954B6C75ED0@gmail.com> From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 16:24:58 -0700 Jane, I over-simplified my description of p.3-47 in Chapter 3 'Classification of Narcissus' by Brian Mathew in the book 'Narcussus and Daffodil: The genus Narcissus' Ed. Gordon R. Hanks, 2002. Certainly it is not a complete "monograph" but it does give one-sentence descriptions of species and varieties of those species. It is not just to section level. It does give one to a few paragraphs describing each section. To give an idea, on page 37 for N. longispathus, in Group B of Section Pseudonarcissus, "N. longispathus Pugsley. Tall with up to three usually wholly yellow flowers per umbel; spathes very conspicuous, to 10 cm long. South-eastern Spain." I was just saying that is just one small chapter of a book, with few photos. - Gastil From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Thu, 21 Mar 2013 17:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1363911254.35835.YahooMailClassic@web161003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 17:14:14 -0700 (PDT) This book is available for free online. If you search for the title and authors name its on the second page on google. The species overview is about as helpful as Blanchards book.  Like Nhu, I find it hard to believe that there is not yet a monograph for Narcissus.  Aaron --- On Fri, 3/22/13, Gastil Gastil-Buhl wrote: From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Friday, March 22, 2013, 7:24 AM Jane, I over-simplified my description of p.3-47 in Chapter 3 'Classification of Narcissus' by Brian Mathew in the book 'Narcussus and Daffodil: The genus Narcissus' Ed. Gordon R. Hanks, 2002. Certainly it is not a complete "monograph" but it does give one-sentence descriptions of species and varieties of those species. It is not just to section level. It does give one to a few paragraphs describing each section. To give an idea, on page 37 for N. longispathus, in Group B of Section Pseudonarcissus, "N. longispathus Pugsley. Tall with up to three usually wholly yellow flowers per umbel; spathes very conspicuous, to 10 cm long. South-eastern Spain." I was just saying that is just one small chapter of a book, with few photos. - Gastil From bulborum@gmail.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 02:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 10:12:55 +0100 I thought Mike Salmon was working on that not sure what happened with his information Roland 2013/3/22 aaron floden : > This book is available for free online. If you search for the title and authors name its on the second page on google. The species overview is about as helpful as Blanchards book. > > Like Nhu, I find it hard to believe that there is not yet a monograph for Narcissus. > > Aaron > > > > --- On Fri, 3/22/13, Gastil Gastil-Buhl wrote: > > From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl > Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Friday, March 22, 2013, 7:24 AM > > Jane, > > I over-simplified my description of p.3-47 in Chapter 3 'Classification of Narcissus' by Brian Mathew in the book 'Narcussus and Daffodil: The genus Narcissus' Ed. Gordon R. Hanks, 2002. > > Certainly it is not a complete "monograph" but it does give one-sentence descriptions of species and varieties of those species. It is not just to section level. It does give one to a few paragraphs describing each section. > > To give an idea, on page 37 for N. longispathus, in Group B of Section Pseudonarcissus, > > "N. longispathus Pugsley. Tall with up to three usually wholly yellow flowers per umbel; spathes very conspicuous, to 10 cm long. South-eastern Spain." > > I was just saying that is just one small chapter of a book, with few photos. > > - Gastil > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 22 Mar 2013 04:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <514C2D3A.4080904@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 23:06:50 +1300 What I found in my garden today https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From pandi_bear@bigpond.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <002a01ce26f1$695f7340$3c1e59c0$@com> From: "Carolyn Fra" Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 22:35:53 +1100 Hi Ina, :o) I hope more of them do that, it looks very pretty. Carolyn Tasmania, Australia -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ina Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013 9:07 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Zephyranthes primulina hybrid What I found in my garden today https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus ?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 05:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <00c701ce26f4$4858d4e0$d90a7ea0$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: Identifying Ornithogalum Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:56:20 -0500 Hello- I have an Ornithogalum that I would like to identify. It's in an awkward location, so it's going to be a chore to get access to it. It may well be O. caudatum. The bulb is at least the size of a grapefruit, it is flowering and it has a fruit ripening. It has stiff, upright leaves. My questions are: Are Ornithos self-fertile? Do they hybridize easily? Does any Ornitho other than caudatum grow this large? (Actually, as I type this, I have another big, unknown plant with flaccid leaves.) What specifically should I photograph for an ID? It would be most convenient if only the flower would be needed for an ID. :} I was just looking at the Wiki, and I forgot that O. caudatum was moved to Albuca. Thanks for the assistance on this..... Best regards, Lisa From cynthiasbulbs@hotmail.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 05:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Cynthia Mueller Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 07:06:20 -0500 Ina, all your rain lilies are so interesting! Keep up the good work of creating some new strains. -Cynthia Mueller Sent from my iPhone On Mar 22, 2013, at 5:52 AM, "Ina" wrote: > What I found in my garden today > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 > > Ina > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From alanidae@gmail.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:20:45 -0400 Ina - That is an interesting one. Though it has a reputation otherwise, I have found Zephyranthes primulina be a good seed parent. Alani Davis On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Cynthia Mueller wrote: > Ina, all your rain lilies are so interesting! Keep up the good work of > creating some new strains. -Cynthia Mueller > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 22, 2013, at 5:52 AM, "Ina" wrote: > > > What I found in my garden today > > > > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 > > > > Ina > > > > -- > > Ina Crossley > > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Alani From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <514C4CE1.2020200@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 01:21:53 +1300 Thank you Cynthia. It looks double. Will investigate more tomorrow, to see if it is a twin flower or one. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 23/03/2013 1:06 a.m., Cynthia Mueller wrote: > Ina, all your rain lilies are so interesting! Keep up the good work of creating some new strains. -Cynthia Mueller From jshields@indy.net Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130322082620.037475b0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:28:01 -0400 Hi Ina, Because of the extra stamens, I'd guess it is a twinned flower, an odd thing to find in a rain lily, I'd think. Jim Shields At 01:21 AM 3/23/2013 +1300, you wrote: >Thank you Cynthia. It looks double. Will investigate more tomorrow, to >see if it is a twin flower or one. > >Ina Crossley ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <514C4F13.7040807@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 01:31:15 +1300 Alani. I read somewhere that Z. primulina was supposed to be apomictic. Nothing could be further from the truth. Promiscuous is a term which I would think more suitable... Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 23/03/2013 1:20 a.m., Alani Davis wrote: > Ina - > That is an interesting one. Though it has a reputation otherwise, I have > found Zephyranthes primulina be a good seed parent. > > Alani Davis From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <514C4FAD.4010303@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 01:33:49 +1300 A bud next to it looks like it will do the same, but will check it later, Jim. It was what Fadjar Martha suggested it could be too. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 23/03/2013 1:28 a.m., J.E. Shields wrote: > Hi Ina, > > Because of the extra stamens, I'd guess it is a twinned flower, an odd > thing to find in a rain lily, I'd think. > > Jim Shields From jshields@indy.net Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130322084020.037476f8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:40:56 -0400 In any case, be sure to mark it and track it. If it does this again, it's a real keeper! Jim S. At 01:33 AM 3/23/2013 +1300, you wrote: >A bud next to it looks like it will do the same, but will check it >later, Jim. It was what Fadjar Martha suggested it could be too. > >Ina Crossley >Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > >On 23/03/2013 1:28 a.m., J.E. Shields wrote: > > Hi Ina, > > > > Because of the extra stamens, I'd guess it is a twinned flower, an odd > > thing to find in a rain lily, I'd think. > > > > Jim Shields > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From alanidae@gmail.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:00:50 -0400 Ina - I have read that as well and it certainly is abundantly self-fertile, but have gotten some nice crosses with little effort and tweezers using Z. primulina as the seed parent and pollen from Z. grandiflora, Z. macrosiphon, and an unnamed hybrid. I have seen a lot of prolific listed as apomictic but it would not be likely that they were strictly that way. Alani On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Ina wrote: > Alani. I read somewhere that Z. primulina was supposed to be apomictic. > Nothing could be further from the truth. Promiscuous is a term which I > would think more suitable... > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 23/03/2013 1:20 a.m., Alani Davis wrote: > > Ina - > > That is an interesting one. Though it has a reputation otherwise, I > have > > found Zephyranthes primulina be a good seed parent. > > > > Alani Davis > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Alani From nick@exbury.co.uk Fri, 22 Mar 2013 07:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <8E302EA5C6374E6CA937406B0E0A7E12@NickPC> From: "Nick de Rothschild" Subject: Exbury Nerine Catalogue Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:02:56 -0000 For me a tiny triumph in this modern world, for you the ability to access the catalogue of all the Exbury Nerine Hybrids via your i-tablets and mobile phones, apple devises and the like.... Please support our puny efforts and help our collection survive and thrive.... (and maybe encourage some of you to collect some of our wonderful bulbs!) You can access the catalogue at: http://itunes.apple.com/gb/book/id618291328 (though please note there is a small charge that goes to a good cause) Yours Nick de Rothschild From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <000601ce2723$5da49990$18edccb0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 10:33:26 -0700 Nhu wrote: > So what you're saying is that there is no monograph for Narcissus?? I'm almost at a loss for words I was the perpetrator of some of the edits to the narcissus section on the wiki, and I agree. In my opinion, the problem isn't that there is no monograph, it's that there have been too many of them. The genus has been studied to death for hundreds of years by splitters and lumpers, in some cases it's no longer clear what's wild and what is cultivated stock dating back to the Romans, and the genus itself is extremely variable, with many intermediates between the various characteristics. The more closely you look, the more confusing the picture becomes. Personal opinion: we won't be able to really make sense of the genus without genetic analysis. Mike San Jose, CA From frewintp@gmail.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Terry Frewin Subject: autumn flowering glad ID Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 07:55:23 +1100 Hello everyone - this pretty Glad has just flowered - it has a rough tag saying ? oppositifolia - any info on how I can tell if that's correct would be helpful, thanks Terry http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohovalleyplants/ -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From arnold140@verizon.net Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <22549252.45154.1363986095995.JavaMail.root@vznit170060> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: autumn flowering glad ID Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:01:35 -0500 (CDT) Terry: Named for the fact that flowers face opposite directions which Goldblatt & Manning says is a "remarkable feature". Painting in their book looks like your plant. Arnold New Jersey On 03/22/13, Terry Frewin wrote: Hello everyone - this pretty Glad has just flowered - it has a rough tag saying ? oppositifolia - any info on how I can tell if that's correct would be helpful, thanks Terry http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohovalleyplants/ -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <93E16920-77C3-4009-BCCD-AED3C88E87FF@gmail.com> From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl Subject: autumn flowering glad ID Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:21:56 -0700 Arnold and Terry, I see a Gladiolus oppositiflorous on ThePlantList but not G. oppositifolia Does this look like it? same coloring. Yours looks more freshly opened. http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantefg/gladoppos.htm - Gastil From arnold140@verizon.net Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <675405.46675.1363987795364.JavaMail.root@vznit170060> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: autumn flowering glad ID Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:29:55 -0500 (CDT) Opps, you're right Gastil. Arnold On 03/22/13, Gastil Gastil-Buhl wrote: Arnold and Terry, I see a Gladiolus oppositiflorous on ThePlantList but not G. oppositifolia Does this look like it? same coloring. Yours looks more freshly opened. http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantefg/gladoppos.htm - Gastil From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: autumn flowering glad ID Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 22:05:27 +0000 oppositiflorus salmoneus From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1363990465.26339.YahooMailNeo@web84506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: autumn flowering glad ID Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Nice photos Terry. The fires must have been terrifying! Take a look at your photo of "Crocus Spring Green". Jim McKenney From awilson@avonia.com Sat, 23 Mar 2013 00:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <45861823FEDF43A28D338FF372E3F5E1@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What I saw in bloom Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 23:36:58 -0700 In a recent trip to New Zealand it was a delight to find in bloom autumn- or fall-blooming species. Included among them was Haemanthus coccineus, growing in large clumps. Splendid! Also blooming were several cyclamen species, colchicums, autumn-blooming snowdrops and Zephyranthes candida. None were labelled, so I've mostly stuck to common names. What a delight it was to see them at this time of year! I include images of just the latter two. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94305835@N04/) There has been an extended drought in the region. So, I wonder if this is the normal time to bloom (mid-March) or whether it is early. Ina, you should be able to answer that one! Andrew San Diego From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 23 Mar 2013 01:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <514D649A.6020704@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: What I saw in bloom Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 21:15:22 +1300 I don't think it has made a noticeable difference to flowering times, Andrew. It all seems to be running to it's usual schedule, just the heat and drought was a problemwater wise. It has cooled down since you were here in NZ. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 23/03/2013 7:36 p.m., AW wrote: > (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94305835@N04/) > > There has been an extended drought in the region. So, I wonder if this is > the normal time to bloom (mid-March) or whether it is early. Ina, you should > be able to answer that one! > > Andrew > San Diego From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sat, 23 Mar 2013 05:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 21:20:57 +1000 Hi Ina, its not so uncommon to get twin flowers in Zephs, i have seen this quite often, over a few species, I have the same in Habranthus Robustus, its just beautiful & reproduces its twin flower regularly..... Although yours looks like a double, or really its more a hose in hose petal formation than a true double i think, It is much more likely to be a twin flower, i say this because it seems to have double the stamens & they are nicely exposed, so it would be my first guess.... You can usually tell when you look at the base of the flower if its a double or a twin, twins seem to be shaped like they have been flattened out a bit, sometimes the flower stem will have a ridge up it where the stems two sides meet, sometimes not, & doubles tend to be much more uniform at the base, with a single stem.... Ive seen some lovely pink doubles out of China but cant get my hands on them.... I have no idea if they reproduce easily, but they are pretty & well worth trying... Maybe we should try to cross my Twin Habranthus with your Double / Twin Zephyranthes, I wonder if that is even possible ??? Steven Esk QLD Australia if it is a true double it would be wonderful & would be fun to see if you can breed different colours with it... On 22 March 2013 20:06, Ina wrote: > What I found in my garden today > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 > > Ina > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sat, 23 Mar 2013 05:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 21:23:22 +1000 Ina i was also wondering if every flower on this plant is double ? On 22 March 2013 20:06, Ina wrote: > What I found in my garden today > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 > > Ina > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From banderson805@gmail.com Sat, 23 Mar 2013 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Ben Anderson Subject: ID request Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:52:48 -0700 Anyone have a name on this unknown? It has been blooming the last few weeks and is now winding down. Apparently a winter grower here in the SF bay area... http://www.flickr.com/photos/btanderson/8578251303/in/photostream Thanks, Ben Anderson From arlen.jose@verizon.net Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Fred Biasella" Subject: ID request Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:35:59 -0400 Hi Ben, It almost looks like a spiloxene. Fred -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Ben Anderson Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:53 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] ID request Anyone have a name on this unknown? It has been blooming the last few weeks and is now winding down. Apparently a winter grower here in the SF bay area... http://www.flickr.com/photos/btanderson/8578251303/in/photostream Thanks, Ben Anderson From jdbourq@yahoo.co.uk Sat, 23 Mar 2013 21:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1364058183.39767.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Last fall I asked the group for advice on overwintering Nerine bowdenii indoors. I got a variety of answers for which I was/am very grateful. But it seemed not many had experience with this species in USA Zone 3. I finally left them in their pot and positioned it about 1 m = 3 ft from the patio door and 20 cm = 8 in. from the radiator and stopped watering them. Low and behold, one sprouted 2 wks ago, and the 3 others yesterday, with 2 babies as a bonus. I'm very happy, and wanted to share this with you all.   J. Denys Bourque Ingénieur forestier / Professional Forester 19, rue Michaud Saint-Jacques, NB   E7B 1M1 CANADA Tél./Tel. : +1 506 739-6471 From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <20130323171520.807BCE8B8C@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: ID request Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:14:56 -0700 Spiloxene serrata is one of the longest blooming species. This year with a dry January, February, and March it is really been putting on a show as there have been a lot more sunny days with enough warmth for the flowers to open. It started blooming in December and is still blooming in March. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Spiloxene#serrata It may not be as spectacular as Spiloxene capensis, but it is a much more reliable and longer bloomer. I suspect this is what your unknown is. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From jdbourq@yahoo.co.uk Sat, 23 Mar 2013 21:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1364059053.23113.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Dear all, I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate any advice on this: 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" (tubers??) sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets almost all the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant the "welded" part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. of the tips above the soil. But then, considering the presence of rootlets near the tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch sideways. 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, also with long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but apparently broken off at the other end. These I thought of planting sideways. 3. How deep should I plant them? Grateful for any advice. Sincerely,   J. Denys Bourque Saint-Jacques, NB   CANADA Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <514E0B2D.3080002@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:06:05 +1300 Only the one bulb had 2 doubles like this Steven. Until I accidentally broke a flower off, and then there was one..... :'( Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 24/03/2013 12:23 a.m., steven hart wrote: > Ina i was also wondering if every flower on this plant is double ? > > On 22 March 2013 20:06, Ina wrote: >> What I found in my garden today >> >> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 >> >> Ina >> >> -- >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <514E0C15.9010702@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:09:57 +1300 Stev, they are twinned, I looked at the embryo seedheads yesterday and as you say, they are slightly flattened. Felix Fajar Martha says that eventually I should be able to get it into a double. The future will tell. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 24/03/2013 12:20 a.m., steven hart wrote: > Maybe we should try to cross my Twin Habranthus with your Double / > Twin Zephyranthes, I wonder if that is even possible ??? > > Steven Esk QLD Australia > > if it is a true double it would be wonderful & would be fun to see if > you can breed different colours with it... From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 23 Mar 2013 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: What I saw in bloom Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:53:45 +0000 Right now around Buenos Aires, its natural habitat, is still in massive bloom but some capsules are open and shedding seeds. From totototo@telus.net Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <514DF7A3.12665.3996@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:42:43 -0700 On 22 Mar 2013, at 10:33, Michael Mace wrote: > Personal opinion: we won't be able to really make sense of the genus > [Narcissus] without genetic analysis. Personal opinion: genetic analysis won't help much. It's pretty clear that on the Iberian peninsula, the genus Narcissus is undergoing active speciation. The fixed category "species" just doesn't work very well under such circumstances, just as it's of questionable utility in paleontology. (The paleontological day is saved thanks (a) to the fact that only a tiny subset of all organisms is fossilized and (b) per Stephen Jay Gould, active speciation is a relatively fast process, so fossilization of true intermediates would be rare. It strikes me that the situation with Iberian narcissus may be like that with the Pacific Coast irises, where logging has created "bio-ways" linking distinct species and allowing them to hybridize freely. I've read that some of the PCI species are actually at risk of being hybridized out of existence. The usual definition of species is a population of plants that can breed together but does not _or_cannot_ breed with other species. When interbreeding is prevented by ecological barriers, if those barriers are disrupted, suddenly formerly good species stop looking so good. Human habitation of the Iberian Peninsula goes back some tens of thousands of years. It may be that the clearing of forests and similar ecological degradation lies at the root of the complexities of Iberian narcissus. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From arcangelow@yahoo.com Sat, 23 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1364092114.51091.YahooMailNeo@web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: arcangelo wessells Subject: hello, what's blooming in my garden Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Hello everyone. My name is Arcangelo Wessells. I have been a member just over one year but this is my first post. I live in Vallejo,  CA. Just at the East end of the San Francisco bay area. I have a small garden so I have resorted to  small slow growing plants to extend the joy of gardening. I raise plants from seed in pots but I try to get them in the ground as soon as possible. Some bulbs disappear quickly but others are tough and I am much fond of the way they look in the ground. I am trying to make it look as natural as possible. I am interested mainly in Paeonia, Gethyllis, Fritillaria and Calochortus. I will have more photos to share later this year, but many of my plants are still to young to flower. I am also very interested in Castilleja and Orobanche and other parasitic plants. So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out. It rained last week and really made the flower more beautiful. http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584723952/in/photostream/   Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today. A bit harder to photograph. It works best at 7am as I go to work. http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584827054/in/photostream/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8583649227/in/photostream Also some Trillium ovatum: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584758180/in/photostream/ They are my first flowers on seed grown plants from Archibalds. Paeonia californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to cross them in the future. arcangelo From othonna@gmail.com Sat, 23 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Identifying Narcissus species Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:33:42 -0700 Rodger makes some excellent points. There seem to be similar phenomena in epiphytic rhododendrons and bromeliads, where disturbance such as road building or logging creates light gaps that alter the behavior of pollinators and modify opportunities for the plants. Some vireyas are relatively uncommon in closed-canopy forest but roadsides in the same forest can create ideal secondary habitat for them to thrive and meet with congeners they would otherwise be more isolated from. The case is probably more dynamic with bromeliads like Guzmania species since their seeds are wind-dispersed. Regarding Narcissus, it's too bad there is not a formal taxonomic rank of "species complex" for a suite of closely allied taxa that may intergrade with one another-- or may be actively diverging from one common ancestor. Dylan From bulborum@gmail.com Sun, 24 Mar 2013 00:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 07:56:20 +0100 Hi Denys I plant them just as Dahlia Roland 2013/3/23 J. Denys Bourque : > Dear all, > I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate any advice on this: > 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" (tubers??) sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets almost all the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant the "welded" part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. of the tips above the soil. But then, considering the presence of rootlets near the tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch sideways. > 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, also with long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but apparently broken off at the other end. These I thought of planting sideways. > 3. How deep should I plant them? > Grateful for any advice. > > Sincerely, > > J. Denys Bourque > Saint-Jacques, NB CANADA > Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sun, 24 Mar 2013 01:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1635967466.2604.1364112131354.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f18> From: Mark BROWN Subject: hello, what's blooming in my garden: hybrids between californian paeonia Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:02:11 +0100 (CET) Dear Arcangelo, I fully encourage you in your idea of hybridising these paeonia. I have often dreamed of doing just that. And wondered if any one had ever tried? Anyone know of hybrids between californian paeonia and the other species?   Mark > Message du 24/03/13 03:28 " So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out.   Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today.  Paeonia californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to cross them in the future. > > arcangelo" _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sun, 24 Mar 2013 04:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:32:12 +1000 I thought I was the only one who breaks of a one in a life time flower hehe..... Well im glad you said it had two double flowers, that's great news, in regard to it not just being a one off.... I like it & it will be fascinating to watch its progress & repeat flowering, I would love to see Zephyranthes Crossleii in my lily patch one day ;-)) Steven On 24 March 2013 06:06, Ina wrote: > Only the one bulb had 2 doubles like this Steven. Until I accidentally > broke a flower off, and then there was one..... :'( > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 24/03/2013 12:23 a.m., steven hart wrote: >> Ina i was also wondering if every flower on this plant is double ? >> >> On 22 March 2013 20:06, Ina wrote: >>> What I found in my garden today >>> >>> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 >>> >>> Ina >>> >>> -- >>> Ina Crossley >>> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 -- Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sun, 24 Mar 2013 04:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:50:46 +1000 Yes definitely, it is well worth regenerating both seeds & divisions where possible, depending on what future flowers do, you may also have more than one possibility, perhaps a true hose in hose could be developed or double might continue & you can choose the best shapes over time, I used to love doing this in the nurseries, we turned many experiments into plants I see in gardens today.. I really hope its a solid gene pool for you, if you get more than one flower eventually or more clones eventually you could separate & cross pollenate with other colours too.... I'll have a pale pink lemon thanks Ina......... Something else to look at with twin flowers can be a slightly wider, quite flattened flower stem, not tubular in shape... I will send you some pollen from my twin Habranthus robustus next time I see it in flower.... Perhaps someone with more knowledge than us may know if this pollen can produce anything different or will it just reproduce a standard flower ??? Steven On 24 March 2013 06:09, Ina wrote: > Stev, they are twinned, I looked at the embryo seedheads yesterday and > as you say, they are slightly flattened. Felix Fajar Martha says that > eventually I should be able to get it into a double. The future will tell. > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 24/03/2013 12:20 a.m., steven hart wrote: >> Maybe we should try to cross my Twin Habranthus with your Double / >> Twin Zephyranthes, I wonder if that is even possible ??? >> >> Steven Esk QLD Australia >> >> if it is a true double it would be wonderful & would be fun to see if >> you can breed different colours with it... > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 24 Mar 2013 07:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1364134195.81620.YahooMailNeo@web84504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 07:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Denys, for many years I had a big pot of Nerine bowdenii thick with big healthy bulbs which I put out for the summer and brought indoors for the winter. By the time I brought it in for the winter the foliage had started to die down for the year, and during the winter the pot was not watered and the bulbs made no new growth. When the pot was put outside in the spring and watered well, leafy growth resumed.  In all the years I had these plants, never once did they bloom.  Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I can count buds on the most advanced frits in the garden. From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Sun, 24 Mar 2013 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:27:44 +0000 Hi, In message , Bulborum Botanicum writes >I plant them just as Dahlia That is what I was thinking, in Dahlia the tubers are joined together at one point - the base of the old stem, that is where the new shoots come from, and that is the bit one puts topmost just below the soil. There are a couple of wiki photos (which are not ideal for explaining this point). In the Cosmos one the stem is at the top right (you plant stuff the same way it came out of the ground). The Dahlia photo is of the 'eye' or new shoot at the top of the bunch of tubers. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Dahlia/Dahlia_tuber_DP0.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Cosmos/Cosmos_atrosanguineus_DP5.jpg -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From jdbourq@yahoo.co.uk Sun, 24 Mar 2013 10:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1364136825.61505.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 07:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Thanks to David Pilling I guess I planted them upside down, with the joined part at the bottom of the pot.   J. Denys Bourque Saint-Jacques, NB   CANADA >________________________________ > From: David Pilling >Subject: Re: [pbs] Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus > >Hi, >in Dahlia the tubers are joined together at one point - the base of the old stem, that is where the new shoots come from, and that is the bit one puts topmost just below the soil. There are a couple of wiki photos (which are not ideal for explaining this point).  In the Cosmos one the stem is at the top right (you plant stuff the same way it came out of the ground). The Dahlia photo is of the 'eye' or new shoot at the top of the bunch of tubers. > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Dahlia/Dahlia_tuber_DP0.jpg >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Cosmos/Cosmos_atrosanguineus_DP5.jpg > >David Pilling > > > From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1UJnBY-2PbQh80@fwd08.t-online.de> From: "Johannes-Ulrich Urban" Subject: cosmos atrosanguineus Date: 24 Mar 2013 15:48 GMT Bonjour Denys, Cosmos atrosanguineus has tubers like a Dahlia but these are much more fragile. They do not take a totally dry situation like let's say in a box or paper bag in winter and are best kept in dry compost in a big pot in a cold and dry but frost free storage. It is a good sign that white little rootlets appear all over the tubers as often comercially available tubers are already dead on purchase, yours are definetly alive. The "welded" part is where the shoots will arise so this should be planted upward but still about 3-5cm below ground. Take care not to separate any of the tubers from the point where they are attached to the central shoot area as a tuber without an "eye" will produce roots but not a shoot and will therefore eventually die. If the separated tubers you talk about would have a bud at their tip they will grow but unfortunately most of the detached tubers do not have that bud. If you are unsure which end is which in the detached ones I recommend planting them horizontally and cover entirely with compost about 2cm high How long will it take from now on to have frost free weather in your garden? I am asking this because if you start these kind of plants indoors too early they will need a lot of attention and care and tend to etiolate which makes them vulnerable to direct sun and wind when planted out in the garden after the risk of frost is over. The shoots of this Cosmos will not tolerate any frost. You could delay sprouting by putting the entire tuber into a plastic bag and put it into the vegetable drawer of you fridge, BUT DO NOT FREEZE IT. Take care that there is not too much condensation in the plastic bag (a little is beneficial) and do not add any water by all means and check for mildew from time to time. (my fridge contains all sorts of things like that except food....) I would start a Cosmos indoors in a pot about 4 weeks before the end of frost danger or plant it directly in the garden about 2 weeks before the last possible frost (this is for European mild winters, where the soil is frost free a long time before the last air frost) Never plant into frozen soil. Good luck! Uli From hornig@oswego.edu Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 11:50:16 -0400 Hmmmm...I've done the same thing with them for years (overwintering unwatered, after the foliage dies down, in a cold place, but above freezing), and they bloom vigorously ever year.... It could, of course, just be genetics. Ellen On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Denys, for many years I had a big pot of Nerine bowdenii thick with big > healthy bulbs which I put out for the summer and brought indoors for the > winter. By the time I brought it in for the winter the foliage had started > to die down for the year, and during the winter the pot was not watered and > the bulbs made no new growth. When the pot was put outside in the spring > and watered well, leafy growth resumed. > > In all the years I had these plants, never once did they bloom. > > Jim McKenney > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I can count buds on > the most advanced frits in the garden. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 508-925-5147 From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <410-22013302416362631@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:36:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Overwintering Nerine bowdenii > They would bloom in the Gaylordsville Connecticut (5a) garden up against a South facing stone wallt (old barn foundation) with some late season temporary frost protection. The bulbs themselves were perfectly hardy.in the well drained soil. They bloom here in North Carolina (8a) but I offer no protection so some of the buds will get nipped by frost. Potted, they were easy in a frost free greenhouse kept under the bench during winter. Labels long lost, these were from higher altitude seed. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USDA 8a. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 24 Mar 2013 10:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1364143763.2106.YahooMailNeo@web84502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Ellen  wrote (of our different experiences in overwintering Nerine bowdenii): "It could, of course, just be genetics." Or maybe it was because you wintered yours in a cold but above freezing place while I wintered mine under room temperature conditions.  My current stock spends the year in a cold frame: I'm still waiting for blooms. Jim McKenney Montgomery County Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7  From bbniemann@gmail.com Sun, 24 Mar 2013 10:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <514F3152.1010709@gmail.com> From: Barb Niemann Subject: Albuca sprialis care Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:01:06 -0500 I recently purchased two Albuca spiralis plants. They were in leaf when they were shipped but soon after arrival the all leaves of one plant shriveled up and most of the leaves of the other plant shriveled up. The actual bulbs look fine and are firm and white with no signs of rot or damage. Are these a species that loose their leaves when they go dormant or could the leaf loss be due to the stress of shipping? When is a good time to re-pot this species? They were shipped in their own pot and I would like to move them into the medium that I use. - Barb Niemann From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Sun, 24 Mar 2013 10:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:11:31 -0400 Overwintering nerine. It could be temperature related. I have a few pots of seeds grown clivias. They bloomed very sparsely when wintered at room temperature, but since I started wintering them in a cool greenhouse (+4 C minimum) they set buds and bloom profusely without fail every year. Now I have a couple of pots of seed grown nerine. They are not big enough to bloom, but it gives me some ideas. Bea Spencer zone 5 Ontario From jshields@indy.net Sun, 24 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130324132943.053efd88@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:41:30 -0400 It's definite that Clivia miniata hybrids need chilling for 4 weeks or so at or below 50 F to trigger flowering. The Belgian hybrids seem to be less dependent on temperature than other strains of C. miniata. Other species of Clivia may not be so directly dependent on temperature. I agree that Nerine bowdenii might need the same thing as C. miniata. My bowdenii spend the summer outdoors in the lath house. Before frost, they are moved into a greenhouse where the temperatures get down to 55 F in cold weather. They bloom in Sept-November, but not all of them bloom in any given year. They loose their leaves and don't start growing new ones until just about now. Nerine initiate new blooms more than a year before the bud actually starts to grow. Your Nerine bowdenii will need good conditions for at least two consecutive seasons before you can expect to see many blooms. Broad-leaf nerines like bowdenii and sarniensis also need very careful feeding. Use low Nitrogen (N), high Potassium (K) fertilizers during the growing season. I use a custom formulated fertilizer with N-P-K of about 0-15-35 on my Nerine bowdenii and sarniensis. My conditions are not perfect. Indiana's climate and my greenhouse settings (not optimized for Nerine) may contribute to the problem. Still, I do get some blooms every year. Jim Shields At 01:11 PM 3/24/2013 -0400, you wrote: >Overwintering nerine. >It could be temperature related. I have a few pots of seeds grown clivias. >They bloomed very sparsely when wintered at room temperature, but since I >started wintering them in a cool greenhouse (+4 C minimum) they set buds and >bloom profusely without fail every year. Now I have a couple of pots of seed >grown nerine. They are not big enough to bloom, but it gives me some ideas. > >Bea Spencer zone 5 Ontario ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun, 24 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Albuca sprialis care Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 10:43:47 -0700 Hi Barb, This is one of the easier species to grow. They will drop all of their leaves when dormant so I suspect that the shipping process dried out the medium and caused them to go into dormancy. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Repot the bulbs during summer dormancy. The bulbs can get to 2-2.5" (~5cm) in diameter. Nhu On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Barb Niemann wrote: > Are these a species that loose their leaves when they go dormant > or could the leaf loss be due to the stress of shipping? When is a good > time to re-pot this species? > From msittner@mcn.org Sun, 24 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <20130324175744.B9359E94B6@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Nerine not blooming was Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 10:48:37 -0700 For years I was unable to get Nerine bowdenii to bloom even though I had offsets from a friend of mine who lives locally who bloomed hers successfully in the ground. In my dry summer garden I found they had not survived in the ground so I had planted them in pots. I decided it was time to give them to the BX but when I unpotted them I was surprised how big and healthy they looked. So remembering I had some Cyrtanthus hybrids that never bloomed until I potted up in a much bigger and deeper pot in which they bloomed well each year, I decided to rescue a few and try again with a bigger pot and send the rest on to the BX. Since then they have been blooming well. So I potted up another pot of this species that was not blooming I had grown from seed and it is now blooming well also. When the bulbs I grew from seed started blooming however, I discovered they were all hybrids. Both pots bloom at different times which extends the blooming time. Other species of Nerine I grow in smaller pots bloom just fine. I can't say for sure that was the reason for the change since with bulbs they seem to have a mind of their own about blooming time. My Nerine sarniensis cultivars rarely bloomed until I moved them to a greenhouse year round where they could be warmer in summer and sheltered from heavy rains in winter and started watering them in summer. Now most of them bloom. Sometimes it is just a matter of trying to find what works in your environment and experimenting a little. Even so, the year to year changes in our environments also make a difference. In this dry year I'm enjoying Moraea elegans and it hasn't bloomed for years. I wasn't even sure I had it anymore. And the Oxalis obtusa has been spectacular, dazzling even, much better than in years when we had our normal wet winters when it usually blooms. Since I grow a variety of bulbs it means that usually some of them are going to bloom when they others skip a year or two. I just added to the wiki photos of the offspring of Moraea 'Zoe' grow from seed I saved from that cultivar. I'm afraid I got a little carried away but it's been fun looking at the slight differences in the flowers. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaHybrids#Zoe Something else having a wonderful long blooming season this year are all those "homoglads" I've gronw from seed (Gladiolus hybrids probably with G. tristis and G. huttonnii in their heritage.) Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Sun, 24 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: Nerine not blooming was Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 11:09:44 -0700 Mary Sue, your Zoe hybrids are gorgeous. Karl Church Zone 9a On Mar 24, 2013 10:57 AM, "Mary Sue Ittner" wrote: > For years I was unable to get Nerine bowdenii to bloom even though I > had offsets from a friend of mine who lives locally who bloomed hers > successfully in the ground. In my dry summer garden I found they had > not survived in the ground so I had planted them in pots. I decided > it was time to give them to the BX but when I unpotted them I was > surprised how big and healthy they looked. So remembering I had some > Cyrtanthus hybrids that never bloomed until I potted up in a much > bigger and deeper pot in which they bloomed well each year, I decided > to rescue a few and try again with a bigger pot and send the rest on > to the BX. Since then they have been blooming well. So I potted up > another pot of this species that was not blooming I had grown from > seed and it is now blooming well also. When the bulbs I grew from > seed started blooming however, I discovered they were all hybrids. > Both pots bloom at different times which extends the blooming time. > Other species of Nerine I grow in smaller pots bloom just fine. I > can't say for sure that was the reason for the change since with > bulbs they seem to have a mind of their own about blooming time. > > My Nerine sarniensis cultivars rarely bloomed until I moved them to a > greenhouse year round where they could be warmer in summer and > sheltered from heavy rains in winter and started watering them in > summer. Now most of them bloom. > > Sometimes it is just a matter of trying to find what works in your > environment and experimenting a little. Even so, the year to year > changes in our environments also make a difference. In this dry year > I'm enjoying Moraea elegans and it hasn't bloomed for years. I wasn't > even sure I had it anymore. And the Oxalis obtusa has been > spectacular, dazzling even, much better than in years when we had our > normal wet winters when it usually blooms. > > Since I grow a variety of bulbs it means that usually some of them > are going to bloom when they others skip a year or two. > > I just added to the wiki photos of the offspring of Moraea 'Zoe' grow > from seed I saved from that cultivar. I'm afraid I got a little > carried away but it's been fun looking at the slight differences in > the flowers. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaHybrids#Zoe > Something else having a wonderful long blooming season this year are > all those "homoglads" I've gronw from seed (Gladiolus hybrids > probably with G. tristis and G. huttonnii in their heritage.) > > Mary Sue > > > Mary Sue Ittner > California's North Coast > Wet mild winters with occasional frost > Dry mild summers > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <514F47F6.8040004@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:37:42 +1300 Apricot? Oh, it sounds just lovely. Dream on Steven. I am actually suprised by how there are about 4 colour shadings in the Z. primulina hybrids, from white (back to the original Z. candida probably as that is what they look like) to a lovely cream, then there is the Z, primulina yellow and a darker yellow like the "double" of which there also are singles. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 24/03/2013 11:50 p.m., steven hart wrote: > I'll have a pale pink lemon thanks Ina......... From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1624503306.26186.1364151693150.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f11> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Moraea 'Zoe' hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:01:33 +0100 (CET) Dear Mary-Sue, Those plants are amazingly beautiful! You have every reason to be proud of them! Thanks for sharing. Mark " Message du 24/03/13 18:57 > De : "Mary Sue Ittner" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society"  I just added to the wiki photos of the offspring of Moraea 'Zoe' grow > from seed I saved from that cultivar. I'm afraid I got a little > carried away but it's been fun looking at the slight differences in > the flowers. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaHybrids#Zoe > Mary Sue" _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5181D168-5674-49AB-B804-DEE6C1290070@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Moraea 'Zoe' hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:14:22 -0500 On Mar 24, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Mark BROWN wrote: > > Dear Mary-Sue, > Those plants are amazingly beautiful! Any seed available? Wow. Jim W. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Help with Scottish Rock Garden forum Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:21:22 -0700 I hope one of the members of the present list who is also on the Scottish Rock Garden Club forum can help me get access to it. I tried to register, but it tells me I am already registered. I think I did that some years ago, and gave it up because there was so much trivial chat on it at that time. However, I have no idea what my password is, and there is no obvious option to request that the password be e-mailed to me, as some other passworded websites have. The Help function did not include this information. Does anybody know more? Thanks, Jane McGary From youngs.aberdeen@btinternet.com Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <22027D9475964CC6A52C019B5E7A894F@user26491afdde> From: "Youngs" Subject: Fw: Help with Scottish Rock Garden forum Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:39:22 -0000 I have contacted Jane to help her regain access to the SRGC Forum. There is both a contact button and also a means to ask for a new password in the SRGC Forum. http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php I do hope Jane's worries about "trivial chat" won't be off-putting for any of you wishing to visit the forum - we in the SRGC refer to it as social intercourse and find it builds a community - as the strength of the forum would seem to confirm. There are many options for the way you use the forum - and none of them involve you having to pay attention to the chatting, if that is what you prefer to do. Kind regards, Maggi Begin forwarded message: From: Jane McGary Date: March 24, 2013, 3:21:22 PM EDT To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Help with Scottish Rock Garden forum Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society I hope one of the members of the present list who is also on the Scottish Rock Garden Club forum can help me get access to it. I tried to register, but it tells me I am already registered. I think I did that some years ago, and gave it up because there was so much trivial chat on it at that time. However, I have no idea what my password is, and there is no obvious option to request that the password be e-mailed to me, as some other passworded websites have. The Help function did not include this information. Does anybody know more? Thanks, Jane McGary _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 24 Mar 2013 15:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <00dd01ce28d9$d1f93eb0$75ebbc10$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Moraea 'Zoe' hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:52:02 -0700 How long does it take for Moraea to germinate? Colleen Z4b-6b -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mark BROWN Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:02 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Moraea 'Zoe' hybrids Dear Mary-Sue, Those plants are amazingly beautiful! You have every reason to be proud of them! Thanks for sharing. Mark " Message du 24/03/13 18:57 > De : "Mary Sue Ittner" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" I just added to the wiki photos of the offspring of Moraea 'Zoe' grow > from seed I saved from that cultivar. I'm afraid I got a little > carried away but it's been fun looking at the slight differences in > the flowers. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaHybrids#Zoe > Mary Sue" From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 24 Mar 2013 17:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Albuca sprialis care Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 00:10:32 +0000 The plants should be with leaves in autumn, winter and spring, so it is not impossible that with sparse waterings a new set of leaves be produced. As for media, species like this should grow in a very gritty one as they come from rather arid land. From frewintp@gmail.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 03:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Terry Frewin Subject: autumn flowering glad ID Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:19:51 +1100 Thanks everyone for your comments, links etc - have had a busy few days so just getting to respond. Yes the correct name is no doubt oppositiflorus, thanks for the link Gastil - so hard to tell from photos but I'd say that's the right id. The salmon form is very pretty. and yes Jim, the fires were a bit nerve wracking but in the end we were quite safe even though they came close, as the wind, and the terrain, & the temperatures were with us - very fortunate indeed! A week earlier when we had 40C and strong winds would have been a different story. On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Nice photos Terry. The fires must have been terrifying! > Take a look at your photo of "Crocus Spring Green". > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 03:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:53:40 +1000 wow I thought there was only one colour...... How interesting...... Im dady at the moment, I rescued two ducklings off the highway & couldn't find mum so they have adopted me already & they are small enough to fit in an egg cup :-) they are so demanding & want to be cuddled to sleep after they peck about for a while, they are the cutest little things..... On 25 March 2013 04:37, Ina wrote: > Apricot? Oh, it sounds just lovely. Dream on Steven. > > I am actually suprised by how there are about 4 colour shadings in the > Z. primulina hybrids, from white (back to the original Z. candida > probably as that is what they look like) to a lovely cream, then there > is the Z, primulina yellow and a darker yellow like the "double" of > which there also are singles. > > Ina > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 24/03/2013 11:50 p.m., steven hart wrote: >> I'll have a pale pink lemon thanks Ina......... > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From klazina@orcon.net.nz Mon, 25 Mar 2013 03:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <515023C6.1050305@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 23:15:34 +1300 One of my sons had a rescued duckling, I took some photos, everywhere he went it followed. However, he gave it to a bird rescue place, it was too likely he would step on it, it was right by his feet all the time. Cute though! Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 25/03/2013 10:53 p.m., steven hart wrote: > Im daddy at the moment, I rescued two ducklings off the highway & couldn't > find mum so they have adopted me already & they are small enough to > fit in an egg cup:-) they are so demanding & want to be cuddled to > sleep after they peck about for a while, they are the cutest little > things..... From klazina@orcon.net.nz Mon, 25 Mar 2013 05:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <51502584.1090703@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes email Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 23:23:00 +1300 Sorry, I thought I was emailing Steven privately as he probably thought too... -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon, 25 Mar 2013 06:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: Wiki improvements Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:52:02 +0000 Hi, A couple of improvements over at the PBS wiki... Contributors can now upload photos of any size and the wiki will take care of producing the usual 640x550 pixel maximum version. As well as the 640x550 image, which you see by clicking on the tiny thumbnail photos, there now may also be a higher resolution version. This can be viewed by selecting "Click for high res. version" from the caption at the bottom of the standard image. There are now around 16,000 photos on the wiki and it will be a long time before high res. versions for the majority are available. If you'd like to give this a try, see the first three landscape photos here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/YosemiteNationalPark -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From Ben.Zonneveld@naturalis.nl Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <1F470697F8655C48BC74727C54AE3A02216815B5@NNMS83.nnm.local> From: "Zonneveld, B.J.M." Subject: narcissus species Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 13:04:30 +0000 I like to remind you that I wrote an article on the taxonomy of all narcissus species, based on 375 accessions, in 2008 in Plant systematics and evolution 275: 109-132 and a second article on the origin of N bujei in Anales del Jardin Botanico Madrid 67(1): 29-39. Both are based on nuclear DNA content I can send a pdf to those interested Kind regards, B.J.M.Zonneveld T +31 (0)71 527 47 38, T +31 (0)71 527 50 08 Einsteinweg 2, P.O. Box 9514, 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands E ben.zonneveld@naturalis.nl, I www.naturalis.nl -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: zondag 24 maart 2013 9:02 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 33 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Re: ID request (Fred Biasella) 2. Re: ID request (Mary Sue Ittner) 3. Re: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid (Ina) 4. Re: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid (Ina) 5. Re: What I saw in bloom (Alberto Castillo) 6. Re: Identifying Narcissus species (Rodger Whitlock) 7. hello, what's blooming in my garden (arcangelo wessells) 8. Re: Identifying Narcissus species (Hannon) 9. Overwintering Nerine bowdenii (J. Denys Bourque) 10. Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus (J. Denys Bourque) 11. Re: Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus (Bulborum Botanicum) 12. Re: hello, what's blooming in my garden: hybrids between californian paeonia (Mark BROWN) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:35:59 -0400 From: "Fred Biasella" Subject: Re: [pbs] ID request To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Ben, It almost looks like a spiloxene. Fred -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Ben Anderson Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:53 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] ID request Anyone have a name on this unknown? It has been blooming the last few weeks and is now winding down. Apparently a winter grower here in the SF bay area... http://www.flickr.com/photos/btanderson/8578251303/in/photostream Thanks, Ben Anderson ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:14:56 -0700 From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Re: [pbs] ID request To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <20130323171520.807BCE8B8C@lists.ibiblio.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Spiloxene serrata is one of the longest blooming species. This year with a dry January, February, and March it is really been putting on a show as there have been a lot more sunny days with enough warmth for the flowers to open. It started blooming in December and is still blooming in March. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Spiloxene#serrata It may not be as spectacular as Spiloxene capensis, but it is a much more reliable and longer bloomer. I suspect this is what your unknown is. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:06:05 +1300 From: Ina Subject: Re: [pbs] Zephyranthes primulina hybrid To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <514E0B2D.3080002@orcon.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Only the one bulb had 2 doubles like this Steven. Until I accidentally broke a flower off, and then there was one..... :'( Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 24/03/2013 12:23 a.m., steven hart wrote: > Ina i was also wondering if every flower on this plant is double ? > > On 22 March 2013 20:06, Ina wrote: >> What I found in my garden today >> >> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHab >> ranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 >> >> Ina >> >> -- >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:09:57 +1300 From: Ina Subject: Re: [pbs] Zephyranthes primulina hybrid To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <514E0C15.9010702@orcon.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Stev, they are twinned, I looked at the embryo seedheads yesterday and as you say, they are slightly flattened. Felix Fajar Martha says that eventually I should be able to get it into a double. The future will tell. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 24/03/2013 12:20 a.m., steven hart wrote: > Maybe we should try to cross my Twin Habranthus with your Double / > Twin Zephyranthes, I wonder if that is even possible ??? > > Steven Esk QLD Australia > > if it is a true double it would be wonderful & would be fun to see > if you can breed different colours with it... ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:53:45 +0000 From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Re: [pbs] What I saw in bloom To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Right now around Buenos Aires, its natural habitat, is still in massive bloom but some capsules are open and shedding seeds. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:42:43 -0700 From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <514DF7A3.12665.3996@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 22 Mar 2013, at 10:33, Michael Mace wrote: > Personal opinion: we won't be able to really make sense of the genus > [Narcissus] without genetic analysis. Personal opinion: genetic analysis won't help much. It's pretty clear that on the Iberian peninsula, the genus Narcissus is undergoing active speciation. The fixed category "species" just doesn't work very well under such circumstances, just as it's of questionable utility in paleontology. (The paleontological day is saved thanks (a) to the fact that only a tiny subset of all organisms is fossilized and (b) per Stephen Jay Gould, active speciation is a relatively fast process, so fossilization of true intermediates would be rare. It strikes me that the situation with Iberian narcissus may be like that with the Pacific Coast irises, where logging has created "bio-ways" linking distinct species and allowing them to hybridize freely. I've read that some of the PCI species are actually at risk of being hybridized out of existence. The usual definition of species is a population of plants that can breed together but does not _or_cannot_ breed with other species. When interbreeding is prevented by ecological barriers, if those barriers are disrupted, suddenly formerly good species stop looking so good. Human habitation of the Iberian Peninsula goes back some tens of thousands of years. It may be that the clearing of forests and similar ecological degradation lies at the root of the complexities of Iberian narcissus. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:28:34 -0700 (PDT) From: arcangelo wessells Subject: [pbs] hello, what's blooming in my garden To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" Message-ID: <1364092114.51091.YahooMailNeo@web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hello everyone. My name is Arcangelo Wessells. I have been a member just over one year but this is my first post. I live in Vallejo, ?CA. Just at the East end of the San Francisco bay area. I have a small garden so I have resorted to ?small slow growing plants to extend the joy of gardening. I raise plants from seed in pots but I try to get them in the ground as soon as possible. Some bulbs disappear quickly but others are tough and I am much fond of the way they look in the ground. I am trying to make it look as natural as possible. I am interested mainly in Paeonia, Gethyllis, Fritillaria and Calochortus. I will have more photos to share later this year, but many of my plants are still to young to flower. I am also very interested in Castilleja and Orobanche and other parasitic plants. So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out. It rained last week and really made the flower more beautiful. http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584723952/in/photostream/ ??Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today. A bit harder to photograph. It works best at 7am as I go to work. http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584827054/in/photostream/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8583649227/in/photostream Also some Trillium ovatum: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584758180/in/photostream/ They are my first flowers on seed grown plants from Archibalds. Paeonia californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to cross them in the future. arcangelo ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:33:42 -0700 From: Hannon Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rodger makes some excellent points. There seem to be similar phenomena in epiphytic rhododendrons and bromeliads, where disturbance such as road building or logging creates light gaps that alter the behavior of pollinators and modify opportunities for the plants. Some vireyas are relatively uncommon in closed-canopy forest but roadsides in the same forest can create ideal secondary habitat for them to thrive and meet with congeners they would otherwise be more isolated from. The case is probably more dynamic with bromeliads like Guzmania species since their seeds are wind-dispersed. Regarding Narcissus, it's too bad there is not a formal taxonomic rank of "species complex" for a suite of closely allied taxa that may intergrade with one another-- or may be actively diverging from one common ancestor. Dylan ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:03:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: [pbs] Overwintering Nerine bowdenii To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <1364058183.39767.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Last fall I asked the group for advice on overwintering Nerine bowdenii indoors. I got a variety of answers for which I was/am very grateful. But it seemed not many had experience with this species in USA Zone 3. I finally left them in their pot and positioned it about 1 m = 3 ft from the patio door and 20 cm = 8 in. from the radiator and stopped watering them. Low and behold, one sprouted 2 wks ago, and the 3 others yesterday, with 2 babies as a bonus. I'm very happy, and wanted to share this with you all. ? J. Denys Bourque Ing?nieur forestier / Professional Forester 19, rue Michaud Saint-Jacques, NB?? E7B 1M1 CANADA T?l./Tel. : +1 506 739-6471 ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: [pbs] Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <1364059053.23113.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear all, I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate any advice on this: 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" (tubers??) sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets almost all the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant the "welded" part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. of the tips above the soil. But then, considering the presence of rootlets near the tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch sideways. 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, also with long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but apparently broken off at the other end. These I thought of planting sideways. 3. How deep should I plant them? Grateful for any advice. Sincerely, ? J. Denys Bourque Saint-Jacques, NB?? CANADA Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 07:56:20 +0100 From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Re: [pbs] Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Denys I plant them just as Dahlia Roland 2013/3/23 J. Denys Bourque : > Dear all, > I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate any advice on this: > 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" (tubers??) sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets almost all the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant the "welded" part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. of the tips above the soil. But then, considering the presence of rootlets near the tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch sideways. > 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, also with long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but apparently broken off at the other end. These I thought of planting sideways. > 3. How deep should I plant them? > Grateful for any advice. > > Sincerely, > > J. Denys Bourque > Saint-Jacques, NB CANADA > Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:02:11 +0100 (CET) From: Mark BROWN Subject: Re: [pbs] hello, what's blooming in my garden: hybrids between californian paeonia To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <1635967466.2604.1364112131354.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f18> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear Arcangelo, I fully encourage you in your idea of hybridising these paeonia. I have often dreamed of doing just that. And wondered if any one had ever tried? Anyone know of hybrids between californian paeonia and the other species? ? Mark > Message du 24/03/13 03:28 " So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out. ? Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today. ?Paeonia californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to cross them in the future. > > arcangelo" ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 33 ************************************ From youngs.aberdeen@btinternet.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <63DE34D4AEA14D939A0223665352DAD3@user26491afdde> From: "Youngs" Subject: Wiki improvements Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:01:51 -0000 "A couple of improvements over at the PBS wiki..." Congratulations on these further improvements . A lot of work involved but you are making a great contribution to the PBS by these efforts. From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Zephyranthes email Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:02:52 -0400 hehehe I enjoyed reading about the ducklings!!! :-) it's nesting season here -- the canada geese are *everywhere* Dennis in Cincinnati On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Ina wrote: > Sorry, I thought I was emailing Steven privately as he probably thought > too... > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 08:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <81937286-3001-4AC5-9962-32931AF37231@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: narcissus species Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 09:27:47 -0500 On Mar 25, 2013, at 8:04 AM, Zonneveld, B.J.M. wrote: > I like to remind you that I wrote an article on the taxonomy of all narcissus species, based on 375 accessions, in 2008 in Plant systematics and evolution 275: 109-132 and a second article on the origin of N bujei in Anales del Jardin Botanico Madrid 67(1): 29-39. Both are based on nuclear DNA content > I can send a pdf to those interested Dear Ben, Can those be posted on the PBS wiki somewhere? Seems like they'd be of interest to quite a few. Thanks Jim From xerantheum@gmail.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: narcissus species Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 09:45:45 -0700 The publisher is Springer so we can't host it on our wiki. BUT the good news is that this is an open access article so anyone can download it. Here's a link to it hosted by the University of Leiden. https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/handle/1887/13962 Nhu On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:27 AM, James Waddick wrote: > > Dear Ben, > Can those be posted on the PBS wiki somewhere? Seems like they'd > be of interest to quite a few. Thanks Jim > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1364233171.39488.YahooMailNeo@web84503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Any Aponogeton experts out there? Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Back in early February we had a brief thread which began with speculation about the identity of plants sold as Crinum thaianum in aquarium stores. Jim Waddick mentioned that  bulbs of aquatic plants were being sold in clam shell containers in aquarium stores. That was enough to get my attention: I was soon off to check out the local tropical fish stores and came home with two little plastic boxes of dry bulbs.  Two of those bulbs popped into bloom this week! You can see them - and read the whole story - here: http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2013/03/aponogeton-adventures.html Does anyone have any ideas what these might be? On the box they were described as a product of Thailand. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the garden is still white from the only significant snow fall of the season last night and this morning.  From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: Any Aponogeton experts out there? Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:36:18 +0100 I saw quite a lot Aponogeton, but i need a closer picture of the foliage, i have a dichotomic key somewhere... Aponogeton does not grow in Thailand or anywhere near. It is native only at Madagascar. Regards, Janos Z5a, Hungary From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Any Aponogeton experts out there? Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:57:29 -0700 There are about 43 species of Aponogeton, all native to the Old World tropics (including Madagascar). From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4040D4C4-CB0D-442F-826F-31CF14B8FC64@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Aponogeton Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:35:37 -0500 Dear Jim Mc I have restrained myself from buying the bulbs sold locally, but your adventure has me tempted. The pet stores here sell two types of 'clam shell' plastic boxes with mixes of 3 to 5 'bulbs' each. However in both cases the plants have a genus or species name attached. The Crinum thaianum is also given the common name of water onion. I recall that one of the other 'bulb's was a Nymphaea sp, but don't recall the third item. All of them are described as coming from Thailand, too. In the 4th pic from the top, the box on the left shows a bulb through the clear plastic. I had assumed this was the 'Crinum". This is also similar to the 6th pic 2nd bulbs from top left row. I don't know what Aponogeton bulbs look like. Did anything look vaguely like a Crinum? or even a Zephyranthes? to you? What else has grown? Best Jim W. On Mar 25, 2013, at 12:39 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Back in early February we had a brief thread which began with speculation about the identity of plants sold as Crinum thaianum in aquarium stores. Jim Waddick mentioned that bulbs of aquatic plants were being sold in clam shell containers in aquarium stores. That was enough to get my attention: I was soon off to check out the local tropical fish stores and came home with two little plastic boxes of dry bulbs. > > Two of those bulbs popped into bloom this week! You can see them - and read the whole story - here: > > http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2013/03/aponogeton-adventures.html > > > Does anyone have any ideas what these might be? On the box they were described as a product of Thailand. > > Jim McKenney > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the garden is still white from the only significant snow fall of the season last night and this morning. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From alanidae@gmail.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: Any Aponogeton experts out there? Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:41:33 -0400 There are number of Aponogeton species that are farmed for the Aquatic plant and aquarium trade though not all species are easy or as great for aquaria. Jim yours looks a lot like Aponogeton undulatus. As I understand it though many of the cultivated plants are suspected to be hybrids or at least there are hybrid plants mixed. There are several species popular from Madagascar in the trade but they occur also on continental Africa, along the southern portions of Asia, and across to Australia as well. I think there are species native to Thailand but I know there farms there growing these plants for the trade as well and not just their native species found this interesting piece on Australian species http://aquaticlife.angfaqld.org.au/Aponogeton.htm Alani Davis On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Back in early February we had a brief thread which began with speculation > about the identity of plants sold as Crinum thaianum in aquarium stores. > Jim Waddick mentioned that bulbs of aquatic plants were being sold in clam > shell containers in aquarium stores. That was enough to get my attention: I > was soon off to check out the local tropical fish stores and came home with > two little plastic boxes of dry bulbs. > > Two of those bulbs popped into bloom this week! You can see them - and > read the whole story - here: > > http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2013/03/aponogeton-adventures.html > > > Does anyone have any ideas what these might be? On the box they were > described as a product of Thailand. > > Jim McKenney > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the garden is still > white from the only significant snow fall of the season last night and this > morning. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Alani From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 25 Mar 2013 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1364247901.31969.YahooMailNeo@web84505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Aponogeton Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Jim Waddic wrote: " In the 4th pic from the top, the box on the left shows a bulb through the clear plastic. I had assumed this was the 'Crinum". This is also similar to the 6th pic 2nd bulbs from top left row. " There were two of these bulbs in the mixed package. One rotted, and the other one is growing well. I expect it to be Zephyranthes candida, as Eugene Zielinski suggested when we discussed this last month. The Aponogeton bulbs (tuberous corms) are shaped like  rounded ovals or stumpy carrots.  That any of these grew came as a surprise. But the one which keeps me guessing is the piece which might be a Nymphaea, a waterlily. It's as light as a cork and has floated since being put in water back in early February. Yet it's extremely hard and shows no sign of mold or softness (or life!). If it ever starts to grow, I'll let you know. And if it does grow it will probably be one of those tropical waterlilies which push up their flower above water  for an hour or two in the middle of the night.  Jim McKenney From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: Aponogeton Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 23:40:16 +0100 Jim, The Nymphaea you have referred to is usually Nymphaea lotus (syn. Nymphaea zenkeri) also known as tiger lotus. The tuber is like a hazelnut, a little bigger. Normally the tubers which float are dead, healthy ones fall onto the bottom of the tank and start growing in about 2 weeks when water is around 20°C. The most often sold Aponogentons are the following species: A. bolivianus, A. henkelianus, A. longiplumosus, A. madagascariensis and A. ulvaceus. The latter is the least demanding and is very vigorous, also the tubers are less susceptible to rot. There are also nice assortment of rhizomatous aroids, like Anubias, they sometimes flower under water. There is a company not far from where i work, i visit them a couple of times a year. Aquarists are like bulbophiles, very friendly, helpful and generous! Janos from Hungary From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1364253059.95326.YahooMailNeo@web84501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Aponogeton Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Thanks, Janos, that's good to know. I'll let you know if the "cork" ever starts to grow. Jim ________________________________ From: J. Agoston To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Aponogeton Jim, The Nymphaea you have referred to is usually Nymphaea lotus (syn. Nymphaea zenkeri) also known as tiger lotus. The tuber is like a hazelnut, a little bigger. Normally the tubers which float are dead, healthy ones fall onto the bottom of the tank and start growing in about 2 weeks when water is around 20°C. The most often sold Aponogentons are the following species: A. bolivianus, A. henkelianus, A. longiplumosus, A. madagascariensis and A. ulvaceus. The latter is the least demanding and is very vigorous, also the tubers are less susceptible to rot. There are also nice assortment of rhizomatous aroids, like Anubias, they sometimes flower under water. There is a company not far from where i work, i visit them a couple of times a year. Aquarists are like bulbophiles, very friendly, helpful and generous! Janos from Hungary From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin glossary Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:34:20 -0700 Moraea confuse me. I went out to hand pollenate some with a Q-tip and easily found the pollen. Bright orange powdery stuff, no confusion there. With the M. tripetala I did figure out to pull the crest away from the opposite tepal. But I did not see anything that looked like a stigma or style. I was looking for something in the center with a sticky top. So I read pages 29-30 of 'The Iris Family' by Goldblatt & Manning. It says the styles are "tangentially flattened, petaloid style branches ..." which I think are what I call "crests". I never realized those crests were styles. I had assumed they were just decoration. Still... I did not see where on those things the pollen should go. Then, in 'The Moraeas of Southern Africa', Goldblatt 1986, page 10 it describes in M. tripetala "The anthers are appressed to the style branches and are usually concealed by the claw of the outer tepals." So the anthers and the styles are pressed together. But not with the pollen touching the stigma surely. "flattened and petal-like style branches" confirms those crests are the style, I think. Referring to this photo of M. villosa http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8591705158/in/photostream The pollen is orange and the backs of the anthers are light blue where they press up against the white crests, which I think are the styles. The white styles branch at the top. "The style branches bear a pair of terminal appendages, the crests,..." OK so far. Then "at the base of which is a transverse stigma". That is where I was stuck. The stigma is supposed to be a "transverse lobe on abaxial surface at base of crests." Abaxial means facing away from the center axis. That would put the stigma right against the anthers. That would not work, would it? Looking at Figure 1c on page 8, there is a label for the stigma. In this illustration the tepals are removed. Near as I can tell, the stigma sits just above the anther. I dont see that in that first photo of the M. villosa but I think I do see it in this photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8590685185/in/photostream Is the stigma in the exact center of the photo? Just above the anther facing the camera, and at the base of the crest fork, and white. "Transverse" means extending across, and if that is the stigma, it does king of look like a beam across the top of the anther. And in this photo of Moraea villosa B, http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8591809078/in/photostream one stigma is just to the right of center, pointing outwards from the style and it glistens, a sure sign of being a stigma. Can someone confirm in time for me to catch with my Q-tip the two M. gigandra that look like they'll be open the same day tomorrow? - Gastil From totototo@telus.net Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5150C5BB.4955.22A3ABD@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: That eight-tepalled yellow Nothoscordum Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:46:35 -0700 For the first time in many years, the plant I received ca. 1990 from Don Elick in Japan as Beauverdia sellowiana is flowering, mirabile dictu! I must have done something right, but I am not sure what! Looking on the PBS Wiki, I see a veritable bouquet of names that might apply to this besides the one I received it under: Nothoscordum dialystemon, N. felipponei, Ipheion dialystemon, Ipheion sellowianum, Tristagma sellowianum. It appears that a fundamental question which remains unanswered with certainty is whether the plant with eight tepals (aka N. dialystemon) is the same taxon as the plant with only six (aka N. felliponei), or a distinct taxon. The distinctions appear to be the number of tepals and the eight-tepal plant having much narrower leaves than the six-tepal plant, but these seem to me to be rather slender grounds on which to separate these plants as distinct taxa. Has there been any recent progress on untangling this tiny morass? DNA evidence, perhaps? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From totototo@telus.net Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5150C651.22551.22C85C0@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: The eight-tepal yellow Nothscordum (addendum) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:49:05 -0700 Nothoscordum hirtellum also seems to be a possible name for the plant with eight tepals. My question about progress in understanding these little yellow Nothoscordums remains. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <36FE494D-A7D9-4B61-87A7-A93E1CFA4EDD@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin glossary Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:01:23 -0700 Yes. You have to put the pollen on the little white horizontal flap just above the yellow stamen. Diane Whitehead On 2013-03-25, at 9:34 PM, M. Gastil-Buhl wrote: > > Is the stigma in the exact center of the photo? Just above the anther > facing the camera, and at the base of the crest fork, and white. > "Transverse" means extending across, and if that is the stigma, it > does king of look like a beam across the top of the anther. > From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue, 26 Mar 2013 00:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <90297363.2393.1364281907388.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f27> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Wiki improvements Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 08:11:47 +0100 (CET) Dear David,   I really appreciate this function as it allows great information of plants in their landscape. Thanks for putting this on.   Kind regards, Mark > Message du 25/03/13 13:53 > De : "David Pilling" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Wiki improvements > > Hi, > > A couple of improvements over at the PBS wiki... > > Contributors can now upload photos of any size and the wiki will take care > of producing the usual 640x550 pixel maximum version. > > As well as the 640x550 image, which you see by clicking on the tiny > thumbnail photos, there now may also be a higher resolution version. This > can be viewed by selecting "Click for high res. version" from the caption at > the bottom of the standard image. > > There are now around 16,000 photos on the wiki and it will be a long time > before high res. versions for the majority are available. If you'd like to > give this a try, see the first three landscape photos here: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/YosemiteNationalPark > > > -- > David Pilling > email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk > web: http://www.davidpilling.net > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulot@cerege.fr Tue, 26 Mar 2013 08:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <515192A5.7030805@cerege.fr> From: "Luc G. Bulot" Subject: narcissus species Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:20:53 +0100 Dear Jim(s), You can download the first paper here : http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs00606-008-0015-1 and the second one here : http://www.rjb.csic.es/jardinbotanico/ficheros/documentos/pdf/anales/2010/Anales_67_1_29-39.pdf Hope this helps, Luc Le 18/03/2013 18:15, Jim Lykos a écrit : > Hello Ben, > > I would be very interested in reading your pdf article on the taxaonomy of > narcissus species. > Could you please email me a copy > Many thanks > > Jim Lykos > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zonneveld, B.J.M." > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:04 AM > Subject: [pbs] narcissus species > > >> I like to remind you that I wrote an article on the taxonomy of all >> narcissus species, based on 375 accessions, in 2008 in Plant systematics >> and evolution 275: 109-132 and a second article on the origin of N bujei in >> Anales del Jardin Botanico Madrid 67(1): 29-39. Both are based on nuclear >> DNA content >> I can send a pdf to those interested >> >> Kind regards, >> >> B.J.M.Zonneveld >> >> >> >> T +31 (0)71 527 47 38, T +31 (0)71 527 50 08 >> Einsteinweg 2, P.O. Box 9514, 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands >> E ben.zonneveld@naturalis.nl, I www.naturalis.nl >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >> On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >> Sent: zondag 24 maart 2013 9:02 >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 33 >> >> Send pbs mailing list submissions to >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than >> "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." >> >> >> List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: ID request (Fred Biasella) >> 2. Re: ID request (Mary Sue Ittner) >> 3. Re: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid (Ina) >> 4. Re: Zephyranthes primulina hybrid (Ina) >> 5. Re: What I saw in bloom (Alberto Castillo) >> 6. Re: Identifying Narcissus species (Rodger Whitlock) >> 7. hello, what's blooming in my garden (arcangelo wessells) >> 8. Re: Identifying Narcissus species (Hannon) >> 9. Overwintering Nerine bowdenii (J. Denys Bourque) >> 10. Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus (J. Denys Bourque) >> 11. Re: Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus (Bulborum Botanicum) >> 12. Re: hello, what's blooming in my garden: hybrids between >> californian paeonia (Mark BROWN) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:35:59 -0400 >> From: "Fred Biasella" >> Subject: Re: [pbs] ID request >> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> Hi Ben, >> >> It almost looks like a spiloxene. >> >> Fred >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org >> [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Ben Anderson >> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:53 AM >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: [pbs] ID request >> >> >> Anyone have a name on this unknown? It has been blooming the last few >> weeks and is now winding down. Apparently a winter grower here in the SF >> bay area... >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/btanderson/8578251303/in/photostream >> >> Thanks, >> Ben Anderson >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:14:56 -0700 >> From: Mary Sue Ittner >> Subject: Re: [pbs] ID request >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <20130323171520.807BCE8B8C@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> Spiloxene serrata is one of the longest blooming species. This year with a >> dry January, February, and March it is really been putting on a show as >> there have been a lot more sunny days with enough warmth for the flowers >> to open. It started blooming in December and is still blooming in March. >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Spiloxene#serrata >> >> It may not be as spectacular as Spiloxene capensis, but it is a much more >> reliable and longer bloomer. I suspect this is what your unknown is. >> >> Mary Sue >> >> Mary Sue Ittner >> California's North Coast >> Wet mild winters with occasional frost >> Dry mild summers >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:06:05 +1300 >> From: Ina >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Zephyranthes primulina hybrid >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <514E0B2D.3080002@orcon.net.nz> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Only the one bulb had 2 doubles like this Steven. Until I accidentally >> broke a flower off, and then there was one..... :'( >> >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> On 24/03/2013 12:23 a.m., steven hart wrote: >>> Ina i was also wondering if every flower on this plant is double ? >>> >>> On 22 March 2013 20:06, Ina wrote: >>>> What I found in my garden today >>>> >>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHab >>>> ranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ#5858036208409452082 >>>> >>>> Ina >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ina Crossley >>>> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:09:57 +1300 >> From: Ina >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Zephyranthes primulina hybrid >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <514E0C15.9010702@orcon.net.nz> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Stev, they are twinned, I looked at the embryo seedheads yesterday and as >> you say, they are slightly flattened. Felix Fajar Martha says that >> eventually I should be able to get it into a double. The future will >> tell. >> >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> On 24/03/2013 12:20 a.m., steven hart wrote: >>> Maybe we should try to cross my Twin Habranthus with your Double / >>> Twin Zephyranthes, I wonder if that is even possible ??? >>> >>> Steven Esk QLD Australia >>> >>> if it is a true double it would be wonderful & would be fun to see >>> if you can breed different colours with it... >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:53:45 +0000 >> From: Alberto Castillo >> Subject: Re: [pbs] What I saw in bloom >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> Right now around Buenos Aires, its natural habitat, is still in massive >> bloom but some capsules are open and shedding seeds. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:42:43 -0700 >> From: "Rodger Whitlock" >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <514DF7A3.12665.3996@localhost> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> On 22 Mar 2013, at 10:33, Michael Mace wrote: >> >>> Personal opinion: we won't be able to really make sense of the genus >>> [Narcissus] without genetic analysis. >> Personal opinion: genetic analysis won't help much. >> >> It's pretty clear that on the Iberian peninsula, the genus Narcissus is >> undergoing active speciation. The fixed category "species" just doesn't >> work very well under such circumstances, just as it's of questionable >> utility in paleontology. (The paleontological day is saved thanks (a) to >> the fact that only a tiny subset of all organisms is fossilized and (b) >> per Stephen Jay Gould, active speciation is a relatively fast process, so >> fossilization of true intermediates would be rare. >> >> It strikes me that the situation with Iberian narcissus may be like that >> with the Pacific Coast irises, where logging has created "bio-ways" >> linking distinct species and allowing them to hybridize freely. I've read >> that some of the PCI species are actually at risk of being hybridized out >> of existence. >> >> The usual definition of species is a population of plants that can breed >> together but does not _or_cannot_ breed with other species. When >> interbreeding is prevented by ecological barriers, if those barriers are >> disrupted, suddenly formerly good species stop looking so good. >> >> Human habitation of the Iberian Peninsula goes back some tens of thousands >> of years. It may be that the clearing of forests and similar ecological >> degradation lies at the root of the complexities of Iberian narcissus. >> >> >> >> -- >> Rodger Whitlock >> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >> Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:28:34 -0700 (PDT) >> From: arcangelo wessells >> Subject: [pbs] hello, what's blooming in my garden >> To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" >> Message-ID: >> <1364092114.51091.YahooMailNeo@web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Hello everyone. My name is Arcangelo Wessells. I have been a member just >> over one year but this is my first post. I live in Vallejo, ?CA. Just at >> the East end of the San Francisco bay area. I have a small garden so I >> have resorted to ?small slow growing plants to extend the joy of >> gardening. I raise plants from seed in pots but I try to get them in the >> ground as soon as possible. Some bulbs disappear quickly but others are >> tough and I am much fond of the way they look in the ground. I am trying >> to make it look as natural as possible. I am interested mainly in Paeonia, >> Gethyllis, Fritillaria and Calochortus. I will have more photos to share >> later this year, but many of my plants are still to young to flower. I am >> also very interested in Castilleja and Orobanche and other parasitic >> plants. >> So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out. It rained last >> week and really made the flower more beautiful. >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584723952/in/photostream/ >> >> >> ??Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today. A bit harder to photograph. It >> works best at 7am as I go to work. >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584827054/in/photostream/ >> >> and >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8583649227/in/photostream >> >> >> Also some Trillium ovatum: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8690158@N07/8584758180/in/photostream/ >> >> >> They are my first flowers on seed grown plants from Archibalds. Paeonia >> californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to cross them in >> the future. >> >> arcangelo >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:33:42 -0700 >> From: Hannon >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Identifying Narcissus species >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Rodger makes some excellent points. There seem to be similar phenomena in >> epiphytic rhododendrons and bromeliads, where disturbance such as road >> building or logging creates light gaps that alter the behavior of >> pollinators and modify opportunities for the plants. Some vireyas are >> relatively uncommon in closed-canopy forest but roadsides in the same >> forest can create ideal secondary habitat for them to thrive and meet with >> congeners they would otherwise be more isolated from. The case is probably >> more dynamic with bromeliads like Guzmania species since their seeds are >> wind-dispersed. >> >> Regarding Narcissus, it's too bad there is not a formal taxonomic rank of >> "species complex" for a suite of closely allied taxa that may intergrade >> with one another-- or may be actively diverging from one common ancestor. >> >> Dylan >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:03:03 -0700 (PDT) >> From: "J. Denys Bourque" >> Subject: [pbs] Overwintering Nerine bowdenii >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> <1364058183.39767.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Last fall I asked the group for advice on overwintering Nerine bowdenii >> indoors. >> I got a variety of answers for which I was/am very grateful. But it seemed >> not many had experience with this species in USA Zone 3. I finally left >> them in their pot and positioned it about 1 m = 3 ft from the patio door >> and 20 cm = 8 in. from the radiator and stopped watering them. >> >> Low and behold, one sprouted 2 wks ago, and the 3 others yesterday, with 2 >> babies as a bonus. >> >> I'm very happy, and wanted to share this with you all. >> >> ? >> J. Denys Bourque >> Ing?nieur forestier / Professional Forester >> 19, rue Michaud >> Saint-Jacques, NB?? E7B 1M1 >> CANADA >> T?l./Tel. : +1 506 739-6471 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) >> From: "J. Denys Bourque" >> Subject: [pbs] Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> <1364059053.23113.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Dear all, >> I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I >> searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate >> any advice on this: >> 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" (tubers??) >> sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets almost all >> the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant the "welded" >> part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. of the tips >> above the soil. But then, considering the presence of rootlets near the >> tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch sideways. >> 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, also with >> long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but apparently broken >> off at the other end. These I thought of planting sideways. >> 3. How deep should I plant them? >> Grateful for any advice. >> >> Sincerely, >> ? >> J. Denys Bourque >> Saint-Jacques, NB?? CANADA >> Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 07:56:20 +0100 >> From: Bulborum Botanicum >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Chocolate Cosmos = Cosmos atrosanguineus >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi Denys >> >> I plant them just as Dahlia >> >> Roland >> >> >> 2013/3/23 J. Denys Bourque : >>> Dear all, >>> I have some Chocolate Cosmos tubers, and don't know how to plant them. I >>> searched Internet, but didn't find anything useful; and would appreciate >>> any advice on this: >>> 1. There is one clump about 4-5 in. in length, of five "pieces" >>> (tubers??) sort of welded together at one end, with fine white rootlets >>> almost all the way to the tips at the other end. I was thinking to plant >>> the "welded" part down and the "pointed tips" upwards, with about 1 in. >>> of the tips above the soil. But then, considering the presence of >>> rootlets near the tips I figure maybe I should plant the entire bunch >>> sideways. >>> 2. There are also two pieces not connected to the other bunch, >>> also with long "tails" or tips, and also with white rootlets, but >>> apparently broken off at the other end. These I thought of planting >>> sideways. >>> 3. How deep should I plant them? >>> Grateful for any advice. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> J. Denys Bourque >>> Saint-Jacques, NB CANADA >>> Canda Zone 3A ; USA Zone 3 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> -- >> R de Boer >> La Maugardiere 1 >> F 27260 EPAIGNES >> FRANCE >> >> Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 >> Email: bulborum@gmail.com >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:02:11 +0100 (CET) >> From: Mark BROWN >> Subject: Re: [pbs] hello, what's blooming in my garden: hybrids >> between californian paeonia >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <1635967466.2604.1364112131354.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f18> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> Dear Arcangelo, >> I fully encourage you in your idea of hybridising these paeonia. >> I have often dreamed of doing just that. And wondered if any one had ever >> tried? >> Anyone know of hybrids between californian paeonia and the other species? >> ? >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >>> Message du 24/03/13 03:28 >> " So this week I have Paeonia mascula ssp russoi fading out. >> ? Paeonia cambessedesii just opened today. >> ?Paeonia californica bloomed one month ago but I would love to try to >> cross them in the future. >>> arcangelo" >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> End of pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 33 >> ************************************ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Ben.Zonneveld@naturalis.nl Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1F470697F8655C48BC74727C54AE3A0221681723@NNMS83.nnm.local> From: "Zonneveld, B.J.M." Subject: bulb DNA Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:52:07 +0000 As this is a bulb group Ypu might be interested in other articles on nuclear DNA content of several other bulbous species apart from Narcissus Like Nerine, Agapanthus, Galanthus, Tulipa ,Lysochiton,Eucomis (also non bulbous plants like Hosta Helleborus Hepatica conifers Araucaria etc) Who can I approach to place them on pbs wiki for those interested? Kind regards, B.J.M.Zonneveld T +31 (0)71 527 47 38, T +31 (0)71 527 50 08 Einsteinweg 2, P.O. Box 9514, 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands E ben.zonneveld@naturalis.nl, I www.naturalis.nl -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: maandag 25 maart 2013 17:01 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 37 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Wiki improvements (Youngs) 2. Re: re Zephyranthes email (Dennis Kramb) 3. Re: narcissus species (James Waddick) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:01:51 -0000 From: "Youngs" Subject: [pbs] Wiki improvements To: "PBS List" Message-ID: <63DE34D4AEA14D939A0223665352DAD3@user26491afdde> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" "A couple of improvements over at the PBS wiki..." Congratulations on these further improvements . A lot of work involved but you are making a great contribution to the PBS by these efforts. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:02:52 -0400 From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Re: [pbs] re Zephyranthes email To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 hehehe I enjoyed reading about the ducklings!!! :-) it's nesting season here -- the canada geese are *everywhere* Dennis in Cincinnati On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Ina wrote: > Sorry, I thought I was emailing Steven privately as he probably > thought too... > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 09:27:47 -0500 From: James Waddick Subject: Re: [pbs] narcissus species To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <81937286-3001-4AC5-9962-32931AF37231@kc.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mar 25, 2013, at 8:04 AM, Zonneveld, B.J.M. wrote: > I like to remind you that I wrote an article on the taxonomy of all > narcissus species, based on 375 accessions, in 2008 in Plant > systematics and evolution 275: 109-132 and a second article on the > origin of N bujei in Anales del Jardin Botanico Madrid 67(1): 29-39. > Both are based on nuclear DNA content I can send a pdf to those > interested Dear Ben, Can those be posted on the PBS wiki somewhere? Seems like they'd be of interest to quite a few. Thanks Jim ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 37 ************************************ From epulver@jkmlibrary.org Tue, 26 Mar 2013 08:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: From: Emilie Pulver Subject: Aponogeton Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:25:59 -0500 Because every plant group has its societies, check out the Aquatic Gardeners Association: http://forum.aquatic-gardeners.org/ Emilie Pulver, member of PBS and AGA. Chicago, Ill. apartment bulb grower. From hanshuizing@home.nl Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <5151BBC4.30704@home.nl> From: Hans Huizing Subject: genus Cyrtanthus Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 16:16:20 +0100 Hello bulb lovers. I hope someone can help me. I love the genus Cyrtanthus and I am looking for bulblets, bulbs or seeds of the following species: C. galpinii C. guthrieae C. huttonii C. loddegesianus C. mcmasteri C. montanus C. stenanthus C. tuckii C. ventricosus Please react on my private Email address. Kind regards, Hans Huizing *H. J. Huizing* Wapendrager 38 7943 RP Meppel Holland // Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 hanshuizing@home.nl www.dehuizings.nl www.hanshuizing.nl *Loving plants is not a virus. It's a highly evolved state of being.* Get a signature like this. Click here. From jmeler.com@gmail.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joseph Meler Subject: Convallaria majalis "Ms North's strain" [lily of the valley] Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 07:59:39 -0800 To All: I am originally from out east (Michigan), where my mother had no trouble growing a rather large bed of Convallaria majalis [lily of the valley]. However, after the family moved to Southern California, she has been unable to successfully grow any. I had assumed this was due to the absolute requirement of a cold period, but recently I heard about a cultivar called Miss (or Mrs) North's strain, which was reputed to do well out here. Unfortunately, I have not been able to locate anyone who has any, or knows of anyone who does. I hope this cultivar has not been lost. Does anyone on this list have any information about this type of lily of the valley? I would greatly appreciate your assistance. Thank you in advance. Joseph Meler Los Angeles, CA From michaelcmace@gmail.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:17:54 -0700 Message-Id: <003401ce2a42$8be0b290$a3a217b0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:54:11 -0700 Gastil wrote: >Can someone confirm in time for me to catch with my Q-tip the two M. gigandra that look like they'll be open the same day tomorrow? Diane got it right; the stigma are those little flap/lip-like things. You put the pollen on the inner surface. You'll find that the stigmas on M. tripetala are incredibly small, just tiny little nubs near the tip of the anther. On M. gigandra, the stigmas are at the top end of the crest. You may have to pry them open. If anyone wants more details, I posted some instructions and images here: http://growingcoolplants.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-to-pollinate-moraea-flower s.html Mike San Jose, CA From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:17:54 -0700 Message-Id: From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin glossary Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:56:37 -0700 Thank you Diane. This morning I cross pollenated this nearly-finished Moraea gigandra from a corm Mike Mace grew: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8591993761/in/set-72157633089120831/ with a newly-opened M. gigandra bloom from a Telos Rare Bulbs corm: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8593094972/in/set-72157633089120831/ There are two Telos blooms opening today. I crossed the deeper blue one of the two. I particularly wanted to cross those because so far they are the most blue I have seen. Also, it turns out a Q-tip does not work as well as I had hoped. But I did not want to store a watercolor brush in the freezer. - Gastil From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:17:54 -0700 Message-Id: <4A1A720F-59F9-4F0A-89AE-9EE63CD2A4F1@gmail.com> From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:06:33 -0700 Thank you Mike. Those are great instructions in plain English on your blog. http://growingcoolplants.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-to-pollinate-moraea-flowers.html If that URL splits up, as it did in my view of the pbs list, just go here first http://growingcoolplants.blogspot.com/ and then click on the March 2013 link at the right to 'How to Pollinate Moraea Flowers'. - Gastil From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin glossary Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:36:44 -0700 I haven't pollinated Moraeas with stored pollen, but I used to keep rhododendron stamens in my house for several months - just sitting on little dishes. Iris stamens also, but only for a couple of weeks because the bloom time is shorter for iris. Then I would pick up the stamens with tweezers and brush them onto the stigma. On 26-Mar-13, at 9:56 AM, M. Gastil-Buhl wrote: > Also, it turns out a Q-tip does not work as well as I had hoped. But I > did not want to store a watercolor brush in the freezer. From jshields@indy.net Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130326143835.057ae6f0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin glossary Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 14:42:51 -0400 Some pollens will keep for years if dried and then stored frozen. There are claims that Clivia pollen can be kept viable for more than 5 years. Hemerocallis pollen keeps for at least 3 years. Crinum pollen keeps for at least two years. Hippeastrum and Hymenocallis pollens usually last only a bare one year in storage. For long-term storage, both drying and freezing are important. See: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/info/Pollen.html Jim Shields At 10:36 AM 3/26/2013 -0700, you wrote: >I haven't pollinated Moraeas with stored pollen, but I used to keep >rhododendron stamens in my house for several months - just sitting on >little dishes. Iris stamens also, but only for a couple of weeks >because the bloom time is shorter for iris. Then I would pick up the >stamens with tweezers and brush them onto the stigma. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 14:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:58:45 -0800 Mike, That is really awesome! I tried to pollinate Moraea aristata before but not knowing what to do, they didn't produce any seeds. I have just pollinated my M. aristata now so hopefully there will be seeds in a few months. Are moraeas self-fertile? Also, you should put those great diagrams on the wiki :) Nhu On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Michael Mace wrote: > If anyone wants more details, I posted some instructions and images here: > > http://growingcoolplants.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-to-pollinate-moraea-flower > s.html > From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Narcissus Perigord Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 00:45:41 +0100 A Narcissus found by a client in the Perigord France who knows a name Roland https://plus.google.com/photos/108516029021129842551/albums/5859800814272018209 R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 From lakedees@aol.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CFF8A03A118B0F-83C-1129C@webmail-d178.sysops.aol.com> From: Lakedees Subject: Narcissus Perigord Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 21:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Looks lik Barrii Conspicuus George -----Original Message----- From: Bulborum Botanicum To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 4:46 pm Subject: [pbs] Narcissus Perigord A Narcissus found by a client in the Perigord France who knows a name Roland https://plus.google.com/photos/108516029021129842551/albums/5859800814272018209 R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin glossary Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:21:08 -0700 And here is another illustration of where the stigma is, this time on Iris, which have flowers similar in shape to Moraea. Here, on our own PBS wiki, photographs with annotation by David Pilling http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Iris click on 'Show pollination and flwoer structure details...' I have looked at Iris flowers up close for decades and not until now have I though to look for the stigma. Once you know where to look it is easy but it is not so easy to describe without illustrations. - Gastil From Jadeboy48@aol.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 22:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <85d3.31a4e85c.3e83d6e2@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin glossary Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 01:00:18 -0400 (EDT) One thing no one has brought up is how to prevent you flower from being pollinated by the wrong pollen plant.Get you pod flower ready by bagging it in a bag made from nylon panty hose material. Some pollinaters will force their way into closed flowers!! As soon as the bud is big enough to easily open remove the stamens from the flower/every one. Then rebag and wait unles the bud matures and becomes receptive. When most flower buds are ready to be pollinated the stigma gets sticky, not dry. The pollen has to sprout on a moist surface or it dies. Do not ever put water on the stigma to get it moist,it will do this on it own time. After placing the pollen on the stigma rebag at once. No other pollinators can move pollen to your stigma because the nylon mesh keeps everything out. When I pollinate I remove every stamen from the entire flower I am working with. I have used this method since nylon hosiery was invented (a very long time ago). Nylon works well because it is so light weight it will not damage the flowers. Before nylon you could use silk or fine muslin to bag. By bagging you don't have to slice up the flower parts. I think some pollinates fail because the flower you are pollinating is badly damaged. In some years I would pollinate several thousand flowers, so I have a lot of experience with everything from orchid,daylilies and irids. Everyone considering doing this kind of job needs to read a book on flower anatomy so you know exactly where the stigma and pollen are. Sometimes pollen is very well hidden to people. Then assemble your tools (paintbrushes/artist size are great for moving pollen). Botanist have found the most fertile time for a flower to receive pollen is between 11am and noon on a warm, sunny day. Rain can ruin all your work! Be patient when trying to make a new hybrid because some take a lot of pollinations to produce one seed. Good Luck! Russ Hintz In a message dated 3/26/2013 8:21:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gastil.buhl@gmail.com writes: And here is another illustration of where the stigma is, this time on Iris, which have flowers similar in shape to Moraea. Here, on our own PBS wiki, photographs with annotation by David Pilling http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Iris click on 'Show pollination and flwoer structure details...' I have looked at Iris flowers up close for decades and not until now have I though to look for the stigma. Once you know where to look it is easy but it is not so easy to describe without illustrations. - Gastil _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Jadeboy48@aol.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 22:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <86a2.2a60771b.3e83d899@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 01:07:37 -0400 (EDT) I have found that for me small artist's paint brushes are great to move pollen. If you reuse the same brush, also kill any old pollen by a quick dip in alcohol. Let the brushes dry completely in the sun so there is no alcohol smell on the brush. Buy a bunch of a cheaper but soft brands so you always have a brush ready to collect pollen. I hope this helps because it is a very useful skill to either make more of the same plant or new hybrids. Russ Hintz In a message dated 3/26/2013 1:58:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, xerantheum@gmail.com writes: Mike, That is really awesome! I tried to pollinate Moraea aristata before but not knowing what to do, they didn't produce any seeds. I have just pollinated my M. aristata now so hopefully there will be seeds in a few months. Are moraeas self-fertile? Also, you should put those great diagrams on the wiki :) Nhu On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Michael Mace wrote: > If anyone wants more details, I posted some instructions and images here: > > http://growingcoolplants.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-to-pollinate-moraea-flower > s.html > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ericklux@gmail.com Tue, 26 Mar 2013 22:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: From: erick lux Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 00:15:39 -0500 I just snatch the little makeup brushes out of my gal's compacts. They're small enough to store with pollen saved in an old prescription bottle. Seems to work well. (shhh, she thinks she misplaces them) Erick From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed, 27 Mar 2013 00:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <938990768.1307.1364365231361.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f18> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Narcissus Perigord Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:20:31 +0100 (CET) Roland, it is Narcissus 'Baths Flame'   http://shiptonbulbs.co.uk/Narcissus9 Kind regards, Mark   _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 27 Mar 2013 01:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Narcissus Perigord Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:35:21 +0100 Hi Mark and George The problem is that these are collected in the wild They look very much like Narcissus 'Baths Flame' maybe a natural hybrid or a garden escape ? Roland 2013/3/27 Mark BROWN : > Roland, it is Narcissus 'Baths Flame' > > http://shiptonbulbs.co.uk/Narcissus9 > Kind regards, > Mark > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1364403941.19521.YahooMailNeo@web84505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: hand-pollenating Moraea with a Q-tip and a botanical latin Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Erick, I want to see what happens when she finds one and thinks the pollen in the little bottle is some sort of very pricey makeup and gives it a try.  Jim McKenney From totototo@telus.net Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5152CECE.29993.354F@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Narcissus Perigord Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:49:50 -0700 On 27 Mar 2013, at 8:35, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > The problem is that these are collected in the wild They look very much like > Narcissus 'Baths Flame' maybe a natural hybrid or a garden escape ? The bon mot is "feral", daffodils that have escaped from cultivation and now grow and thrive without human involvement as though they were wild. Quite common around Victoria BC. N. 'Barrii Conspicuus' grows alongside my long driveway, but I didn't plant it there. A modern narcissus cultivar that may be heading in this direction is 'Tete a tete', widely sold in pots for early spring color, then simply dumped any old place. Indeed, many old, famous cultivars are long gone but hang on as ferals. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Narcissus Perigord Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:14:29 +0100 Thanks Rodger I will plant them this autumn next to each other to compare maybe other members have other ideas Roland 2013/3/27 Rodger Whitlock : > On 27 Mar 2013, at 8:35, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > >> The problem is that these are collected in the wild They look very much like >> Narcissus 'Baths Flame' maybe a natural hybrid or a garden escape ? > > The bon mot is "feral", daffodils that have escaped from cultivation and now > grow and thrive without human involvement as though they were wild. > > Quite common around Victoria BC. N. 'Barrii Conspicuus' grows alongside my long > driveway, but I didn't plant it there. A modern narcissus cultivar that may be > heading in this direction is 'Tete a tete', widely sold in pots for early > spring color, then simply dumped any old place. > > Indeed, many old, famous cultivars are long gone but hang on as ferals. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1032309367.34098.1364408116544.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f20> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Narcissus Périgord / Baths Flame Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:15:16 +0100 (CET) Dear All , Yes these are very old stalwarts! They can be found in many an unexpected place. Gardeners grow tired of cultivars that are good plants even so. How many times have enthusiasts rescued good garden plants from oblivion? Old Narcissi are now making a comeback. More and more real gardeners are realising there charm and grace. WWII was responsible in Europe for many of the old narcissi being thrown out as commercial crops. Potatoes took there place but the narcissi held good around ther field edges and adjoining woodlands. Old graveyards sometimes still have good plantings of them too. Their story is much like the old roses. 'Baths Flame' was grown as a cut flower before WWII on a large scale in Cornwall according to some of the old timers I met there a few years ago.   Regards, Mark > Message du 27/03/13 18:50 > De : "Rodger Whitlock" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Narcissus Perigord > > On 27 Mar 2013, at 8:35, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > > > The problem is that these are collected in the wild They look very much like > > Narcissus 'Baths Flame' maybe a natural hybrid or a garden escape ? > > The bon mot is "feral", daffodils that have escaped from cultivation and now > grow and thrive without human involvement as though they were wild. > > Quite common around Victoria BC. N. 'Barrii Conspicuus' grows alongside my long > driveway, but I didn't plant it there. A modern narcissus cultivar that may be > heading in this direction is 'Tete a tete', widely sold in pots for early > spring color, then simply dumped any old place. > > Indeed, many old, famous cultivars are long gone but hang on as ferals. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ksayce@willapabay.org Wed, 27 Mar 2013 15:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <8279ADC5-26AB-4F1B-A2B9-F822B8FEAF7C@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: fawn lily Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:24:09 -0700 Erythronium revolutum, pink fawn lily, is widely distributed in western north america. I have two different groups from wild collected seeds in my yard, and the differences in bloom time are striking. The lowland-source plants, 200 ft elevation, are in flower now. The mountain-source plants, 2800 ft elevation, have just appeared above ground, and will probably flower in 3-4 weeks. The accidental plus is the extension of flowering period for this species in my garden from these two very different collections. Also in flower now is E. tuolumnensem, bright yellow; about to open is E. helenae, which has gone from upright to hooked bud over several weeks. Several others have buds among the foliage, and are a few weeks from full flowering, including E. oreganum. Dave Brastow gave me a seedling of this species several years ago, and I'm very pleased that I have not managed to kill it off. I am hoping for seeds this year from several clumps, and have already got wire mesh protection in place to keep the deer from eating the developing seed heads. The surprise this spring was finding a flowering Scoliopus hallii clump. I had planted it years ago, it was eaten the next year, I assumed it was dead, but no, years later, it's growing well, producing offsets and flowering. Plants are amazingly tough. Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From dhkerrmail@yahoo.com Wed, 27 Mar 2013 15:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1364421559.62605.YahooMailClassic@web160806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Daniel Kerr Subject: Pink Crinum Lily Pod Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:59:19 -0700 (PDT)   This Crinum Lily plant put up a spike late last fall; so I brought it inside and let it flower under a stairway light.  It had multiple pink flowers. One of them threw a pod which just fell off the other day. I don't have the patience to sprout and grow these.  Anyone want to try?  NO I.D. Crinum Lily.  It put up another spike this winter that's still blooming! From Jadeboy48@aol.com Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: Pink Crinum Lily Pod Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Sure, I would be glad to grow the seeds for you. I am a pbs member, just tell me how much to send you for shipment. Perhaps if there was a high germination you could give away plants to new members or some other wish you might have. Crinum is very easy and could be a good first plant for someone new to plants. I have only raised them for about 40 years because my nurseries were all in cold sw wisc. Now I have the warmth of the Phoenix,AZ Valley. Russ Hintz at _jadeboy48@aol.com_ (mailto:jadeboy48@aol.com) In a message dated 3/27/2013 2:59:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dhkerrmail@yahoo.com writes: This Crinum Lily plant put up a spike late last fall; so I brought it inside and let it flower under a stairway light. It had multiple pink flowers. One of them threw a pod which just fell off the other day. I don't have the patience to sprout and grow these. Anyone want to try? NO I.D. Crinum Lily. It put up another spike this winter that's still blooming! _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Jadeboy48@aol.com Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <11d5.14537e86.3e84cfae@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: bulb DNA Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:41:50 -0400 (EDT) I think posting genetic info is very important for potential plant breeders. You can see if plants might be compatible to produce hybrids. However I think you may be getting into hotwater when you try to list the chromosome count of every plant. It would require someone to enter the information which can be time consuming. Plus I think we should consider that the main focus of the group is geophytes, not conifers or palms or clubmosses. I feel if you want to list the chromosome number and any pertinent genetic information it should be limited to what the group was set up to study. Just my opinion-Russ H. In a message dated 3/26/2013 5:52:42 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Ben.Zonneveld@naturalis.nl writes: As this is a bulb group Ypu might be interested in other articles on nuclear DNA content of several other bulbous species apart from Narcissus Like Nerine, Agapanthus, Galanthus, Tulipa ,Lysochiton,Eucomis (also non bulbous plants like Hosta Helleborus Hepatica conifers Araucaria etc) Who can I approach to place them on pbs wiki for those interested? Kind regards, B.J.M.Zonneveld T +31 (0)71 527 47 38, T +31 (0)71 527 50 08 Einsteinweg 2, P.O. Box 9514, 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands E ben.zonneveld@naturalis.nl, I www.naturalis.nl -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: maandag 25 maart 2013 17:01 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 37 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Wiki improvements (Youngs) 2. Re: re Zephyranthes email (Dennis Kramb) 3. Re: narcissus species (James Waddick) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:01:51 -0000 From: "Youngs" Subject: [pbs] Wiki improvements To: "PBS List" Message-ID: <63DE34D4AEA14D939A0223665352DAD3@user26491afdde> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" "A couple of improvements over at the PBS wiki..." Congratulations on these further improvements . A lot of work involved but you are making a great contribution to the PBS by these efforts. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:02:52 -0400 From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Re: [pbs] re Zephyranthes email To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 hehehe I enjoyed reading about the ducklings!!! :-) it's nesting season here -- the canada geese are *everywhere* Dennis in Cincinnati On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Ina wrote: > Sorry, I thought I was emailing Steven privately as he probably > thought too... > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 09:27:47 -0500 From: James Waddick Subject: Re: [pbs] narcissus species To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <81937286-3001-4AC5-9962-32931AF37231@kc.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mar 25, 2013, at 8:04 AM, Zonneveld, B.J.M. wrote: > I like to remind you that I wrote an article on the taxonomy of all > narcissus species, based on 375 accessions, in 2008 in Plant > systematics and evolution 275: 109-132 and a second article on the > origin of N bujei in Anales del Jardin Botanico Madrid 67(1): 29-39. > Both are based on nuclear DNA content I can send a pdf to those > interested Dear Ben, Can those be posted on the PBS wiki somewhere? Seems like they'd be of interest to quite a few. Thanks Jim ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 37 ************************************ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From robertwerra@pacific.net Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Robert Werra" Subject: What's blooming and pollinating-moraea villosa Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 15:49:10 -0700 Regarding recent discussion of pollinating Moraeas there was a picture of moraea villosa. It just happens that moraea villosa is beginning to bloom in my inland northern Calif. raised bed. And they are fantastic.Sadly, I am a luddite at sending pictures so you must visualize. A deep copper petal with an iridescant green center. A lilac petal with an iridescant blue center. These are the aptly named peacock moraeas. M. villosa and the rest of the peacock moraeas are all fantastic. Regarding their pollination, there is also a simple unscientific way. It was shown to me by Jim Holmes, a five star plantsman in So. Africa. Just put the faces of the moraeas together and moosh them. I do it my beds and pots and it works. But with the peacocks you don't have to bother with seeds because they secretly multiply stoloniferously under ground. Each corm puts out 1-3 cormlets on a stolon. When I periodically empty a pot I have a cup of corms. Enjoy the moraeas. From xerics@cox.net Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <007d01ce2b42$f6d76430$e4862c90$@net> From: "richard" Subject: fawn lily Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:29:44 -0700 I'm happy for you. I have been trying to germinate seed for several years now with nary a one. I thought that perhaps my winters were too warm so the last batch spent a few months in the refrigerator at 40 degrees F. Still nothing. Any Pointers? Richard Wagner Vista CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen Sayce Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 2:24 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] fawn lily Erythronium revolutum, pink fawn lily, is widely distributed in western north america. I have two different groups from wild collected seeds in my yard, and the differences in bloom time are striking. The lowland-source plants, 200 ft elevation, are in flower now. The mountain-source plants, 2800 ft elevation, have just appeared above ground, and will probably flower in 3-4 weeks. The accidental plus is the extension of flowering period for this species in my garden from these two very different collections. Also in flower now is E. tuolumnensem, bright yellow; about to open is E. helenae, which has gone from upright to hooked bud over several weeks. Several others have buds among the foliage, and are a few weeks from full flowering, including E. oreganum. Dave Brastow gave me a seedling of this species several years ago, and I'm very pleased that I have not managed to kill it off. I am hoping for seeds this year from several clumps, and have already got wire mesh protection in place to keep the deer from eating the developing seed heads. The surprise this spring was finding a flowering Scoliopus hallii clump. I had planted it years ago, it was eaten the next year, I assumed it was dead, but no, years later, it's growing well, producing offsets and flowering. Plants are amazingly tough. Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From maxwithers@gmail.com Wed, 27 Mar 2013 19:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: fawn lily Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 20:29:18 -0500 Richard, I tried several species of west coast Erythronium from seed in Oakland, and they were not easy to germinate. I seem to recall at 4 months of stratification, and that was for the coast range species (I think helenae, citrinum, and californicum). I'd be interested to hear of a better method... although I suppose it's academic now that I live in Texas. On the bright side, a mass of what I took to be unhappy Agapanthus in my new yard revealed itself as Hippeastrum x johnsonii last week, which I hear is a local passalong plant. Where there are Amaryllids, there is hope! Interestingly, it seems to bloom a month later in California: http://www.smgrowers.com/products/plants/plantdisplay.asp?plant_id=2972 Best, Max Withers Austin TX On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:29 PM, richard wrote: > I'm happy for you. I have been trying to germinate seed for several years > now with nary a one. I thought that perhaps my winters were too warm so the > last batch spent a few months in the refrigerator at 40 degrees F. Still > nothing. Any Pointers? > > Richard Wagner > Vista CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Kathleen Sayce > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 2:24 PM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] fawn lily > > Erythronium revolutum, pink fawn lily, is widely distributed in western > north america. I have two different groups from wild collected seeds in my > yard, and the differences in bloom time are striking. The lowland-source > plants, 200 ft elevation, are in flower now. The mountain-source plants, > 2800 ft elevation, have just appeared above ground, and will probably > flower > in 3-4 weeks. The accidental plus is the extension of flowering period for > this species in my garden from these two very different collections. > > Also in flower now is E. tuolumnensem, bright yellow; about to open is E. > helenae, which has gone from upright to hooked bud over several weeks. > Several others have buds among the foliage, and are a few weeks from full > flowering, including E. oreganum. Dave Brastow gave me a seedling of this > species several years ago, and I'm very pleased that I have not managed to > kill it off. > > I am hoping for seeds this year from several clumps, and have already got > wire mesh protection in place to keep the deer from eating the developing > seed heads. > > The surprise this spring was finding a flowering Scoliopus hallii clump. I > had planted it years ago, it was eaten the next year, I assumed it was > dead, > but no, years later, it's growing well, producing offsets and flowering. > Plants are amazingly tough. > > Kathleen > > Kathleen Sayce > PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 27 Mar 2013 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3B9FEFC8-C5FE-452D-974F-B9DFA4D7A582@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: SIGNA & Tigridia Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:50:08 -0500 Dear PBSers, I have a small project involving SIGNA and Tigridia. I'd like to hear from any PBS members who are also SIGNA members and grow Tigridia form seed. Please email direct to me at jwaddick@kc.rr.com Many thanks. Jim W. From totototo@telus.net Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <515367EF.29270.2C0F@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: fawn lily Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 21:43:11 -0700 On 27 Mar 2013, at 16:29, richard wrote: > I'm happy for you. I have been trying to germinate seed for several years now > with nary a one. I thought that perhaps my winters were too warm so the last > batch spent a few months in the refrigerator at 40 degrees F. Still nothing. > Any Pointers? > > Richard Wagner > Vista CA You need to keep them just above freezing, and quite damp. 40F isn't cold enough. Truth is, I think your climate is really too warm for E. revolutum to succeed, but should you have success with germination, plant the seedlings on the north side of your place in the deepest shade possible and keep them moist year round. When you have a colder than normal winter, you may get flowers. I have this problem with E. grandiflorum from Mt. Prevost, overlooking Duncan, BC from the north, where they grow on a steep north facing slope at about 2200' altitude. Being just that much higher than where I live (near sea level) and on a north slope, the site is quite cold. Consequently, my small stand derived from that site rarely flowers, and when it does, the flower scapes often don't elongate properly. If you get E. revolutum going, you may experience the same difficulty. Perhaps the best solution to your difficulties is to use them as an excuse to take a trip northwards in spring to see this lovely plant in its native haunts. You don't need to come all the way to Vancouver Island; it's common in Oregon too. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From ksayce@willapabay.org Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <9D64B198-4ABB-4A0D-84F9-B2694F3BAB09@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: fawn lily Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:07:24 -0700 From Richard, "I have been trying to germinate seed for several years now with nary a one. I thought that perhaps my winters were too warm so the last batch spent a few months in the refrigerator at 40 degrees F. Still nothing. Any Pointers?" I used to toss seeds out in what I thought were likely spots, and that's how the lowland population got started. In hindsight I would have dozens more bulbs if I'd started them in pots or a good seedling bed instead. Later, I began reading Ian Young's bulblog and studied his practice of presoaking seeds, planting in late summer, out in the open, thin layer of fine gravel over the potting medium with seeds down a few cm. But he lives in Scotland, not much help to you in So Cal. So I tried this with later lots of seeds, soaking and then potting up seeds and putting them outside in fall to overwinter. Can't say it's 100 percent reliable for me yet as I still have weird failures from time to time. But I leave the pots out in the open (zone 8b on the Pacific Northwest coast) and let them cook for a couple of years, and sooner or later, some seedlings appear. Vista CA is pretty far south, I agree. I have not tried germinating Erythroniums in my modified refrigerator, which with a new thermostat I can set to 50 F. 50 F is a good germination temp for many native West Coast lilies, and for Pacific Coast iris, which is why I made this modification, and I wonder if that would be a good temperature for Erythroniums. This isn't quite cold stratification, more cool stratification. Rich Haard, if you are reading this, chime in. Your nursery raises Erythroniums by the 100s if not 1000s, and you probably cold or cool stratify your seeds. Kathleen From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <51544431.20301@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: fawn lily Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 06:22:57 -0700 Richard: I have found that seed that is more than a year old is very difficult to germinate. I germinate all my seed in the refrigerator, putting it in vermiculite in plastic bags and leaving it there until I see signs of germination, usually about three months. The easiest Erythronium for me is E. multiscapoideum. It seems to tolerate a wider range of growing conditions, and is more tolerant of warmer weather than the others. It grows in regions that have blistering summers, but it does grow deep, and it is also the first one to emerge, way ahead of E. oregonum and E. revolutum. E. revolutum has been the most difficult for me, even though it grows locally (or so I am told, I have never found any!). Lilium kelloggii grows locally too, and I can't grow that either. I don't think any of these do well in pots. I have had raised beds made for them, and they are doing well in them. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com > I'm happy for you. I have been trying to germinate seed for several years > now with nary a one. I thought that perhaps my winters were too warm so the > last batch spent a few months in the refrigerator at 40 degrees F. Still > nothing. Any Pointers? > > Richard Wagner > Vista CA > > From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: fawn lily Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:07:08 -0700 Hi, In Seattle, Erythronium revolutum roseum grows successfully for me sometimes in a partially shaded bed, the soil having been amended with organic material, and some summer water. Seedlings come up on their own , but , oddly in cracks in the sidewalk next to the bed. I'm not entirely sure why,but they seem to prefer, and easily find this spot more often than the bed itself. Perhaps they prefer the leaner soil, the cover of concrete stepping stones for a very cool root run, or something else? The soil beneath the stepping stones is clay loam, not organically amended soil. The seed would get ample winter chill, some freezing, but at least 8-12 weeks of 30's-40's temps. I know fresh seed is important, as I've raised seedlings in a seed pan before, and germination occured after the first cycle of stratification. Rick K On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Diana Chapman wrote: > Richard: > > I have found that seed that is more than a year old is very difficult to > germinate. I germinate all my seed in the refrigerator, putting it in > vermiculite in plastic bags and leaving it there until I see signs of > germination, usually about three months. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <20130328160918.B5F37E8D2D@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: fawn lily Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:09:10 -0700 In my northern California coastal climate south of Diana I have found a number of Erythroniums easy to grow and flower (and in pots as well). I've started a number from NARGS seed exchanges. Some species I've sometimes gotten to germinate, but not survive to blooming stage. My climate normally gets a fair amount of winter rainfall and I've started seed in late fall to early winter and just left it outside to be rained on (no special treatment.) Seed started this way would come up four to five months later. What may be helpful in my case is that seeds that often came up in February or March were still going to have cool temperatures to grow on for a number of months. The seeds actually often come up about the time you'd expect to see older plants emerge as well. Species that flower reliably for me each year are E. californicum, E. multiscapoideum, E. helenae, E. hendersonii, E. tuolumnense. The latter took the longest of any before it started blooming (about 10 years). I find growing them in pots works better for me as I think the soil stays moist better. In the ground the redwood roots from all my trees are very greedy going after available water. The roots do get into my pots over time as well however even when I've planted pots nesting in other pots. In repotting I've pulled out redwood root nests from some pots. E. helenae was the quickest to flower (about 3 years) and is probably my most successful one so I now have it growing in multiple places (mostly in raised beds in double pots.) I looked for species that were not high elevation species. I've tried E. revolutum many times. I've gotten it to germinate without a lot of problems, but it dwindles and only once did I ever see a bloom and it was from a plant someone gave me. It hasn't rebloomed. I think I probably need to give up on it. Like Diana E. multiscapoideum is the first of mine to come up and bloom and E. revolutum the last to emerge each year. Once again we have different methods providing success. Mary Sue From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: fawn lily Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:31:16 -0700 On 28-Mar-13, at 6:22 AM, Diana Chapman wrote: > E. revolutum has been the most difficult for me, even > though it grows locally (or so I am told, I have never found any!). E. revolutum grows on stream banks here, unlike oregonum which grows among trees and grandiflorum which grows on rocky slopes. Perhaps revolutum needs a lot of moisture to germinate. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <89A04460-03A3-4145-82BE-821F0C39C5CF@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: 3rd germination tests Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:15:12 -0700 The tests I am doing have two purposes: the best way to store seeds, and the best way to germinate old seeds. In 2007 I stored mixed hybrid PCI seeds four ways: in a paper envelope or in a plastic ziplock in a kitchen cupboard (which never gets hotter than 21C or 70F) in a plastic ziplock in the fridge or in the freezer. These are not all the ways they can be stored, of course, and all of them were stored in the dark. Beginning in 2010, Lots of 20 seeds were treated in one of three ways: soaked in the toilet tank for a week, soaked in a saucer for four days, or not soaked at all. This produces 12 lots of 20 seeds each. They were then sown in a peat-based seedling mix in ziplock bags at the recommended temperature for germination: 5 to 10C, or 40 to 50F. All lots were treated alike. The tests all use the stored 2007 seed. Test 1 Fall 2010 No differences - 19 or 20 germinated of each lot of 20 Test 2 Fall 2011 paper envelope: soaked 4 days - 19 germinated, toilet tank - 19, unsoaked - 16 plastic bag: soaked 4 days - 20 germinated, toilet tank - 20, unsoaked - 18 fridge: soaked 4 days - 20 germinated, toilet tank - 20, unsoaked - 18 freezer: soaked 4 days -19 germinated, toilet tank - 18, unsoaked - 17 Test 3 Winter 2013 - I changed the date so it would coincide with the date that we receive our SPCNI seeds paper envelope: soaked 4 days - 20 germinated, toilet tank - 18, unsoaked - 18 plastic bag: soaked 4 days - 19 germinated, toilet tank - 19, unsoaked - 15 fridge: soaked 4 days - 18 germinated, toilet tank - 20, unsoaked - 16 freezer: soaked 4 days - 20 germinated, toilet tank - 18, unsoaked - 15 Germination is when the radicle first emerges, which is something I can see as I dump out each ziplock bag and search through the soil. First germination took 26 days. Unsoaked seeds each year went mouldy in the ziplocks but this did not unduly affect germination. Five year old seed is still germinating well, though not soaking them decreases the number that germinate. The method of storing the seeds doesn't yet matter. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From ksayce@willapabay.org Thu, 28 Mar 2013 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <137D4685-5343-4D15-BE44-0DC0A7234E4F@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: fawn lily Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:53:22 -0700 Diana is on to something for growing Erythroniums in southern California: Look for the southernmost species, and the southernmost garden propagated plants, and then plant them in the coldest area of your yard (noting Roger's comment on E. grandiflorum). There are some midwestern Erythroniums that grow fairly far south. I wonder if one of those might do well for you? E. mesochoreum lives from Texas to Iowa. E. rostratum from Texas to Ohio, and E. umbilicatum is in the southeast. E. albidum and E. americanum live along the east coast, but how far south doesn't come to mind right this minute. Kathleen From mirrog@yahoo.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: fawn lily Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 13:35:09 -0700 For notes from Ian Young, myself, and others on germinating them, see http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=197.msg3874#msg3874 For a photo of Erythronium revolutum seedlings growing in the open ground, see http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10244.0;attach=387677;image After sowing, it’s important to give them a couple of weeks of warmth, to imbibe moisture. Then give them several months of cold (40F). When they germinate, they need to grow in cool temperatures (less than 60F) for a month or so, or you will lose most of them. Ian Young soaks the seeds overnight. I’ve never tried that. The two weeks of warmth works for me, so I stick with it. I give them some soluble fertilizer as soon as they germinate. Don’t expose them to full sun, or let the soil mix get warm. It’s best to plunge the seedling pot into the garden, or into a much larger pot, to keep the soil temperature fairly stable. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From lamon@cox.net Sat, 30 Mar 2013 23:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5154AE33.50100@cox.net> From: Luis Mon Subject: I'm New to PBS... Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 13:55:15 -0700 Hello all, I'm a new member to PBS. I have always been interested in horticulture and botany. Unfortunately, I currently live in a condo (coastal California) so I have to do everything in pots. I have 3 questions to start off. 1. Is it OK to ask horticultural questions about "non-bulbs"? 2. I realize that potting soils should be tailored to each individual species. I don't like using "pre-fertilized" mixes which are so prevalent these days. I have a large bag of Kellogg's mix which is organic forest products (not too chunky) along with worm casings and guano. I also have a large bag of horticultural sand. Since most of my bulbs will be planted in the fall (due to where I live), I am concentrating on succulents and other plants right now. I will have many bulb questions in the fall! What ratio of the above ingredients should I use for your average bulb in a pot? Your average succulent? 3. I bought this cool plant but I don't know what type it is(picture attached). Anyone know? Again, I apologize for the "non-bulb" questions and a big thank you in advance. Sincerely, Luis M. From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 17:37:49 -0400 re: Fertilizer for Nerine Jim uses. I looked everywhere for any fertilizer remotely similar to the one you use (cannot mix my own) and the only one with potassium similar to the formula you gave is the tomato fertilizer. Nitrogen is way higher to "0" of your formula, but it is low as they go in commerce. I suppose that if I bought a box of nitrogen and a box of potassium I could theoretically mix my own if I knew how, but it would not be water soluble as the only ones sold separately are granular. Would you go wit the tomato thing in a pinch? Bea in Ontario zone 5 From jshields@indy.net Thu, 28 Mar 2013 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130328190910.0306aa50@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Fertilizers for Nerine Was: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:17:07 -0400 I'll look further, but you could use a low level of a balanced fertilizer, such as 20-10-20 or the tomato food, at 1/4 to 1/10 the "normal" rates, and then supplemente it with potassium sulfate. Ask at a farm store or elevator for potassium sulfate. You may need to buy alot to get it, I suppose. Potassium sulfate is roughly 40% K (potassium). I'll follow up with a friend who works for Scott's (makers of Miracle Grow, Peters, and Jack's Professional plant foods) and see what they have in the way of specialty formulations. My supplies came from chemical supply houses and cost about $100 per pound, not something others will want to emulate. Jim Shields At 05:37 PM 3/28/2013 -0400, you wrote: >re: Fertilizer for Nerine Jim uses. >I looked everywhere for any fertilizer remotely similar to the one you use >(cannot mix my own) and the only one with potassium similar to the formula >you gave is the tomato fertilizer. Nitrogen is way higher to "0" of your >formula, but it is low as they go in commerce. I suppose that if I bought a >box of nitrogen and a box of potassium I could theoretically mix my own if I >knew how, but it would not be water soluble as the only ones sold separately >are granular. Would you go wit the tomato thing in a pinch? >Bea in Ontario zone 5 > ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From mirrog@yahoo.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 17:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <15511F538CED4835B753D9E04375C451@gmirro2PC> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Fertilizers for Nerine Was: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 16:31:10 -0700 I just use a small sprinkling of regular farm fertilizer, not the high-nitrogen lawn stuff. It works fine for me, but it depends on your local soil conditions. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 28 Mar 2013 17:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: fawn lily Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 16:47:35 -0700 I agree with Diana Chapman that Erythronium multiscapoideum is very easy to grow, including in pots. There is a form that was known as "Cliftonii" ( not a valid taxon) that has unusually large flowers. Around Portland, Oregon, once E. revolutum is in a garden it usually self-sows. The seeds are dispersed by ants (as are seeds of many other western American species). Perhaps it germinates best if planted fresh. In nature it grows in moist places. I leave my seed pots exposed to outdoor temperatures, at least the kinds that I plant in fall, but covered from the rain. I've raised many erythroniums from seed. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA At 06:22 AM 3/28/2013, you wrote: >Richard: > >I have found that seed that is more than a year old is very difficult to >germinate. I germinate all my seed in the refrigerator, putting it in >vermiculite in plastic bags and leaving it there until I see signs of >germination, usually about three months. The easiest Erythronium for me >is E. multiscapoideum. It seems to tolerate a wider range of growing >conditions, and is more tolerant of warmer weather than the others. It >grows in regions that have blistering summers, but it does grow deep, >and it is also the first one to emerge, way ahead of E. oregonum and E. >revolutum. E. revolutum has been the most difficult for me, even >though it grows locally (or so I am told, I have never found any!). >Lilium kelloggii grows locally too, and I can't grow that either. I >don't think any of these do well in pots. I have had raised beds made >for them, and they are doing well in them. > >Diana >Telos Rare Bulbs >www.telosrarebulbs.com From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Thu, 28 Mar 2013 17:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: Fertilizers for Nerine Was: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:55:16 -0400 We have a TSC farm store and I will ask for potassium sulfate, but it would be in the granulated form, would it not? Miracle Grow is all over the place, in every store including the Canadian Tire, but we do not get a great variety of stuff, not like you do in the States. The place I checked is "the nursery" for Greater Toronto for fancy stuff and they did not have anything special like you mentioned, but they had some potassium product, not sure if it was sulfate in a 2 kg box. Need to look into it again. Then there is the problem of the correct dosage. The tomato food is water soluble, it has trace elements and the potassium number is very high. Do not know what chemical form though. I think it is a Miracle Grow product. Many times I feel like a poor cousin when I look at the stuff available in the States. It is probably the matter of "supply and demand", roughly thirty million of people spread over the second largest country in the world (although at least half of them live in Southern Ontario), as opposed to your three hundred millions plus. Thank you for all your help especially since I am a "tender bulb ignoramus". Bea in Ontario, zone 5 From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Thu, 28 Mar 2013 17:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: Fertilizers for Nerine Was: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:57:38 -0400 In Zone 5 it is the "local potting soil conditions", unfortunately. Maybe something would survive outside in a mild winter, but I do not have enough to experiment. Bea -----Original Message----- From: Gene Mirro Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:31 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Fertilizers for Nerine Was: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii I just use a small sprinkling of regular farm fertilizer, not the high-nitrogen lawn stuff. It works fine for me, but it depends on your local soil conditions. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu, 28 Mar 2013 17:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1364515269.46229.YahooMailNeo@web84503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Fertilizers for Nerine Was: Overwintering Nerine bowdenii Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 17:01:09 -0700 (PDT) After searching around (and lots of false starts) I was finally able to find a local source (a turf center) for 00-00-50 sulfate of potash in 50 pound sacks - I don't remember the price, but it was in the $30-$40 range. It was produced by Kirby Agri, Lancaster,  Pennsylvania.   I don't need reagent quality for my plants! The people I talked to at the local garden centers just don't seem to understand the potash issue, and the labels on the bags are not our friends. Twice I ordered what was promised to be sulfate of potash, and what was delivered (and refused!) was muriate of potash.   Jim McKenney From jgglatt@gmail.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 18:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5154E5C3.8070600@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: 10-30-20 Fertilizer Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:52:19 -0400 Here's the analysis for Jack's Classic Blossom Booster fertilizer: * Guaranteed Analysis *Total Nitrogen (N)* *10%* 5% Ammoniacal Nitrogen 5% Nitrate Nitrogen *Available Phosphate (P*_*2* *O*_*5* *)* *30%* *Soluble Potash (K*_*2* *O)* *20%* *Magnesium (Mg)* *0.50%* 0.50% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg) *Boron (B)* *0.02%* *Copper (Cu)* *0.05%* 0.05% Chelated Copper (Cu) *Iron (Fe)* *0.10%* 0.10% Chelated Iron (Fe) *Manganese (Mn)* *0.05%* 0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn) *Molybdenum (Mo)* *0.0009%* *Zinc (Zn)* *0.05%* 0.05% Chelated Zinc (Zn) It's the typical blue crystals that dissolve in water. I use it on bulbs that need a quick pick-me-up - galanthus that I'll soon be lifting, dividing, and replanting for example. I'll use it at half-strength, two feedings approximately 2 to 3 weeks apart. It is available in a plastic tub in 8 ounce, 1.5 pound, and 4 pound sizes, also 10 pound resealable plastic bag with handle. From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 18:33:32 -0700 Jim, The fertilizer I use on Nerines is called Maxsea, analysis 3-20-20. It's a seaweed/ organics/ and micronutrient formula, water soluable and available in 16oz. containers for $17.95. It is available from Charlie's Greenhouse Supply, Mt. Vernon, Wa., and, best of all, they ship. Rick K From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5154F5B3.30309@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Sternbergia Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:00:19 +1300 Very little is flowering at the moment, it is just too dry. However, these Sternbergia are cheering. I have tried to grow the seedsetting Sternbergia this year, but had no joy. Is there a knack to that? At the moment the container is left outside open to the weather as I got fed up with it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/49263888@N06/8599544326/in/photostream Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From mirrog@yahoo.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <42D15DBFFEC745A29AE818C496FA6FBC@gmirro2PC> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Sternbergia Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:54:23 -0700 That’s an amazingly rich yellow. You must have been using Kodachrome, Ina. Sure wish we had some smileys around here. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From mirrog@yahoo.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:55:39 -0700 Wood ashes are great fertilizer for bulbs. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 03:16:49 +0000 If the soil is acid From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 28 Mar 2013 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <515508EE.3000301@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Sternbergia Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:22:22 +1300 No Kodachrome Gene, they really are that colour. They sure stand out and look cheery. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 29/03/2013 3:54 p.m., Gene Mirro wrote: > That’s an amazingly rich yellow. You must have been using Kodachrome, Ina. Sure wish we had some smileys around here. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kjblack@pacbell.net Thu, 28 Mar 2013 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1364530679.87315.YahooMailRC@web180904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Sternbergia Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 21:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Beautiful, Ina ! Subject: [pbs] Sternbergia http://www.flickr.com/photos/49263888@N06/8599544326/in/photostream Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand  Zone 10 Very little is flowering at the moment, it is just too dry. However, these Sternbergia are cheering... From Jadeboy48@aol.com Fri, 29 Mar 2013 00:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: Sternbergia Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 02:55:32 -0400 (EDT) If you want to produce seed just get a book/picture of a Sternbergia flower.You have to know where the plant parts are, like anthers and stigmas Polinate the flowers transferring pollen with clean artist brushes to the stigma. Stigma must be slightly sticky for pollen to grow and combine withe egg cell that will grow into seed. Try pollinating around 10am when the humidity is a little higher, but no rain. Rinse brushes in alcohol to kill pollen on the brush and you want to use clean brushes for pollination-Good luck-Russ Hintz In a message dated 3/28/2013 7:00:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, klazina@orcon.net.nz writes: Very little is flowering at the moment, it is just too dry. However, these Sternbergia are cheering. I have tried to grow the seedsetting Sternbergia this year, but had no joy. Is there a knack to that? At the moment the container is left outside open to the weather as I got fed up with it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/49263888@N06/8599544326/in/photostream Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 29 Mar 2013 01:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <51554155.1080000@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Sternbergia Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:23:01 +1300 Russ, Sternbergia does not set seed. It is something to do with diploid or whatever. Do you have one which does set seed, as there is a seed setting one. But the most often grown one does not set seed. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 29/03/2013 7:55 p.m., Jadeboy48@aol.com wrote: > If you want to produce seed just get a book/picture of a Sternbergia > flower.You have to know where the plant parts are, like anthers and stigmas > Polinate the flowers transferring pollen with clean artist brushes to the > stigma. Stigma must be slightly sticky for pollen to grow and combine withe egg > cell that will grow into seed. Try pollinating around 10am when the > humidity is a little higher, but no rain. Rinse brushes in alcohol to kill pollen > on the brush and you want to use clean brushes for pollination-Good > luck-Russ Hintz From Jadeboy48@aol.com Fri, 29 Mar 2013 02:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: Sternbergia Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 04:42:52 -0400 (EDT) You are the first person who told me about a sterile form. It is probably some sort of hybrid with something fairly closely related . Sterile plants would have to produce bulblets to reproduce and they can't spread beyond a small area. In nature these plants normally die out in a couple generations. Plants produce seed to spread their offspring over a wider area. Can you get me a truly sterile bulb? I am a retired plant breeder and geneticist. Some plants will on their own, double the number of chromosomes in their reproductive cells. The normal chromosome number for a plant is called the Diploid state. It could be any number but say it is 2 . The pollen and egg cells would have a chromosome number of 1.Half the genetic information comes from pollen and half from the egg cell. The seed has the normal number of 2 chromosomes per cell. Ok your plant with 2 chromosomes can change and the chromosome number can double to 4 chromosomes as the normal number.That plant produces pollen cells and eggs with 2 chromos each.The plant with the doubled chromosome number is called a Tetraploid. Tetraploid plants often have bigger flowers,more vibrant colors,heavier flower substance and many times is just superior to diploids. Tetraploid plants have been produced in the lab for many years. When you cross a diploid with a tetraploid plant many times the cross will not produce any seeds and any seeds are sterile (and no improvement to growers or gardeners). This is the genetic problem you may be talking about why two plants that look alike are sterile.If you can get a seed from the two different chromosome number they are often very weak growers and die out in nature. They cannot breed even if they make it to flowering size. They are just dead ends. Hope this wasn't too complicated, if you have a question send me a note. I owned a Nursery/Plant Breeding Facility for many years. I also have multiple degrees in genetics. There are basic books on plant breeding/genetics you can order from your local library. To give you an idea of the plant crosses I tried each summer, I pollinated thousands and thousands of flowers. If you do any attempts at producing seeds keep records of what and how you did your work. This information is very valuable. I knew a brilliant flower breeder that kept everything in his head. One day he very suddenly passed away and almost 75 years of knowledge was lost!Thank you for your information-Russ Hintz In a message dated 3/29/2013 12:22:31 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, klazina@orcon.net.nz writes: Russ, Sternbergia does not set seed. It is something to do with diploid or whatever. Do you have one which does set seed, as there is a seed setting one. But the most often grown one does not set seed. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 29/03/2013 7:55 p.m., Jadeboy48@aol.com wrote: > If you want to produce seed just get a book/picture of a Sternbergia > flower.You have to know where the plant parts are, like anthers and stigmas > Polinate the flowers transferring pollen with clean artist brushes to the > stigma. Stigma must be slightly sticky for pollen to grow and combine withe egg > cell that will grow into seed. Try pollinating around 10am when the > humidity is a little higher, but no rain. Rinse brushes in alcohol to kill pollen > on the brush and you want to use clean brushes for pollination-Good > luck-Russ Hintz _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jshields@indy.net Fri, 29 Mar 2013 06:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130329083111.05419e98@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Sternbergia Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 08:48:49 -0400 Another possibility is that we are seeing one single clone making up the commercial stock of Sternbergia. It is probably self-sterile, as many other plants in the Amaryllidaceae are. All you might need to get seeds would be some live pollen from a different clone of the same species. Another problem is that S. lutea occurs as triploid (2n = 3x = 33) as well as the diploid (2n = 22) form. Triploids are usually sterile. See: http://citesbulbs.myspecies.info/content/karyosystematic-study-genus-sternbergia-amaryllidaceae-greece-i-south-aegean-islands I would guess that you will have to find seeds of the diploid form, from one of the seed exchanges or from someone like the Archibalds. Good luck! Jim Shields At 08:23 PM 3/29/2013 +1300, you wrote: >Russ, Sternbergia does not set seed. It is something to do with diploid >or whatever. Do you have one which does set seed, as there is a seed >setting one. But the most often grown one does not set seed. > >Ina ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From mirrog@yahoo.com Fri, 29 Mar 2013 10:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4C9E16EF127F4A799E9FCACA33B4B39A@gmirro2PC> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 10:00:59 -0700 Bone meal has long been considered the traditional bulb fertilizer. My experience is that bulbs really like bone meal. But it is high in P and has almost no K. How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient? Are there references? From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <7F4FBECA-7524-42C1-82D6-0788D97CC1FE@gmail.com> From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl Subject: plant nutrition references for bulbs Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 10:35:27 -0700 Using the word "bulbs" loosely here... Gene asks "How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient? Are there references?" When I sent a soil sample for nutrient analysis to Spectrum Analytic, they offered to provide recommendations for fertilizer based on crop. I explained my "crops" were Aristea to Zephranthes and did not expect them to actually look up references. I was impressed at the research they did. Where possible they provided nutrient requirements to the genus level, and for some just to the family level. Of course my species allium are not going to need the same nutrients as commercial onions (where at least they distinguish between onions grown for big bulbs versus "green onions" grown for foliage). I was impressed they would do research for one backyard baggie of soil. I did warn them ahead of time that I am not a farmer and not a "real" customer. I grabbed a few screenshots from the reports in case this sort of information is of interest. The complication here is these recommendations are based on my backyard soil, not your potting mix. The only information useful here is the sort of nutrients there exist references for and the level of specificity. See for example: http://goo.gl/t88fB If you want to try it with your own soil or potting mix I recall it cost around $60 for the tests I ordered. - Gastil From jshields@indy.net Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130329132156.0374c5a8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:41:15 -0400 References: A. R. Rees, "The Growth of Bulbs" Academic Press (1972) A. de Hertogh and M. Le Nard, "The Physiology of Flower Bulbs" Elsevier (1993) Bulbs, like most plants, use Phosphate (P) in much smaller amounts than they use Nitrogen (N) and Potassium (K). Plants grown in soil need relatively little additional P in most cases. Plants grown in artificial media need continuous but still not large amounts of P in their fertilizer. Bone meal, depending on how it is processed, may contain small amounts of N and of K. N and K are both quite soluble, and whether in soil or in artificial media, both need to be continuously replenished as they are washed away. P forms insoluble complexes in soil with Calcium (Ca), Magnesium (Mg), Manganese (Mn), and Iron (Fe). Once applied to a flower bed, P remains bound in place, slowly being re-released for many years. Continuously adding more P to soil tends to tie up most of the Ca and all of the Fe and Mn. This is not good, and is a waste of increasingly hard to get Phosphate. I find it interesting that gardeners and even educated horticulturalists still use names like "muriate of potassium" or "sulfate of potash" which went out of use in chemistry in the late 19th century. Quaint. Wood ashes are a good source of Potassium (K), in the form of potassium carbonate (a.k.a. "potash") which is also very caustic. Use wood ashes very, very cautiously unless your soil is extremely acidic. Don't wash your hands in a strong solution of wood ashes unless you want to remove most of the skin. I wouldn't use wood ashes directly on any plant bed, not even at gun-point. Jim Shields At 10:00 AM 3/29/2013 -0700, you wrote: >Bone meal has long been considered the traditional bulb fertilizer. My >experience is that bulbs really like bone meal. But it is high in P and >has almost no K. How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient? Are there >references? ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1364582786.56833.YahooMailNeo@web84505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Jim Shields wrote: " I find it interesting that gardeners and even educated horticulturalists still use names like "muriate of potassium" or "sulfate of potash" which  went out of use in chemistry in the late 19th century.  Quaint." Jim, can you expand on this please?  Let's take the term muriate of potash for starters, since that's what I used my post. Is muriate of potash the same as muriate of potassium? If both of these terms are outdated, what do you suggest as alternatives?  With regard to muriate of potash, that term is widespread in the horticultural literature (maybe what you would call the outdated horticultural literature?). Older books warn against using muriate of potash with potatoes or roses. I've noticed that some commercial formulations intended for use with roses do not use muriate of potash and instead use another potassium source, even when formulations from the same manufacturer use muriate of potash in other of their products. . If muriate of potash is an outdated term, what term should we be using?  Is your objection to the term sulfate of potash the form of the term? In other words, do you prefer potassium sulfate (and does it mean the same thing?). Jim McKenney From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1364582983.96027.YahooMailNeo@web84506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Gene asked: "  How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient?  Are there references?  " There is an empirical observation to back this up: the sometimes astonishing bloom observed s year or two after otherwise devastating fires in wooded areas.  Jim McKenney From jshields@indy.net Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130329145152.0374c3a0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:12:28 -0400 I know Jim McK. likes language and its history. Muriate of potash and sulphate of potash are historical or alchemical terms. The modern scientific names for these compounds are potassium chloride for "muriate of potash," and potassium sulfate for "sulphate of potash." The correct names for chemical compounds are defined by the International Union for Pure and Applied Chemistry. Just as plant names and animal names are regulated by international scientific organizations in those fields, so are chemical names. If there is a difference between "sulphate of potash" and potassium sulfate, I suppose it might be in purity and degree of characterization, but there is probably no way of knowing. Chloride is toxic to plants at higher levels, so it's never a good idea to use chloride salts in fertilizers. It therefore helps to know if there is chloride in your fertilizer, which isn't obvious if we talk about "muriates." Hearing "muriate of potash" and "sulphate of potash" strikes my ears the same way hearing "ain't" and "hain't" does now, too. They are all soooooo 19th century. Which is alright if you'd rather be living in the 19th century, I guess. I'm just a chemist of the 20th and 21st centuries. If you're having a scientific discussion, there is no question which terminology is correct. If you're having a literary discussion, that's a different matter. Regards, Jim Shields At 11:46 AM 3/29/2013 -0700, you wrote: >Jim Shields wrote: " I find it interesting that gardeners and even >educated horticulturalists still use names like "muriate of potassium" or >"sulfate of potash" which >went out of use in chemistry in the late 19th century. Quaint." > >Jim, can you expand on this please? > >Let's take the term muriate of potash for starters, since that's what I >used my post. Is muriate of potash the same as muriate of potassium? If >both of these terms are outdated, what do you suggest as alternatives? > >With regard to muriate of potash, that term is widespread in the >horticultural literature (maybe what you would call the outdated >horticultural literature?). Older books warn against using muriate of >potash with potatoes or roses. I've noticed that some commercial >formulations intended for use with roses do not use muriate of potash and >instead use another potassium source, even when formulations from the same >manufacturer use muriate of potash in other of their products. . If >muriate of potash is an outdated term, what term should we be using? > >Is your objection to the term sulfate of potash the form of the term? In >other words, do you prefer potassium sulfate (and does it mean the same >thing?). > > >Jim McKenney >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From mirrog@yahoo.com Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <856FD15A9B884DB7918731BB948493A3@gmirro2PC> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:28:34 -0700 I’ve been applying wood ashes directly to garden beds in our very rainy Spring, always when rain is predicted. It seems to work fine and not cause any problems. I don’t think I would apply ashes in dry weather with fully emerged foliage. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: plant nutrition references for bulbs Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:16:00 +0000 Hi, In message <7F4FBECA-7524-42C1-82D6-0788D97CC1FE@gmail.com>, Gastil Gastil-Buhl writes >I grabbed a few screenshots from the reports in case this sort of >information is of interest. The complication here is these >recommendations are based on >http://goo.gl/t88fB That's in Google Docs. "View" towards the top left under "Plant_Nutrition_bulbs_Spectrum_Analytic" lets you zoom them up big enough to read. Or you can use "File" (same place) and then "Download As" to get a PDF to keep (or zoom). -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1364593775.40006.YahooMailRC@web181506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Not even most chemists these days are aware that Hydrochloric acid was once called Muriatic acid -- both my house guest and I have degrees in chemistry, and neither of us knew what Muriatic acid was: we had to look it up in Wikipedia.  Muriate of Potash is none other than Potassium chloride -- a sometime table salt substitute when used in small quantities. David E. ________________________________ From: J.E. Shields To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, March 29, 2013 10:41:00 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine References: A. R. Rees, "The Growth of Bulbs"  Academic Press (1972) A. de Hertogh and M. Le Nard, "The Physiology of Flower Bulbs"  Elsevier (1993) Bulbs, like most plants, use Phosphate (P) in much smaller amounts than they use Nitrogen (N) and Potassium (K).  Plants grown in soil need relatively little additional P in most cases.  Plants grown in artificial media need continuous but still not large amounts of P in their fertilizer. Bone meal, depending on how it is processed, may contain small amounts of N and of K.  N and K are both quite soluble, and whether in soil or in artificial media, both need to be continuously replenished as they are washed away.  P forms insoluble complexes in soil with Calcium (Ca), Magnesium (Mg), Manganese (Mn), and Iron (Fe).  Once applied to a flower bed, P remains bound in place, slowly being re-released for many years.  Continuously adding more P to soil tends to tie up most of the Ca and all of the Fe and Mn.  This is not good, and is a waste of increasingly hard to get Phosphate. I find it interesting that gardeners and even educated horticulturalists still use names like "muriate of potassium" or "sulfate of potash" which went out of use in chemistry in the late 19th century.  Quaint. Wood ashes are a good source of Potassium (K), in the form of potassium carbonate (a.k.a. "potash") which is also very caustic.  Use wood ashes very, very cautiously unless your soil is extremely acidic.  Don't wash your hands in a strong solution of wood ashes unless you want to remove most of the skin. I wouldn't use wood ashes directly on any plant bed, not even at gun-point. Jim Shields At 10:00 AM 3/29/2013 -0700, you wrote: >Bone meal has long been considered the traditional bulb fertilizer.  My >experience is that bulbs really like bone meal.  But it is high in P and >has almost no K.  How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient?  Are there >references? ************************************************* Jim Shields            USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92              WWW:    http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From Jadeboy48@aol.com Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <200d.4097f4cf.3e877f46@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: Moraea 'Zoe' hybrids Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 19:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Dear Mary-Sue, How does one find someone willing to part with a bulb of Moraea " Zoe"/ It is quite lovely and anyone willing to sell this or any other jewel Moraeas can contact me. I have been looking around for a M pritzeliana too. As I am very disabled I cannot travel to pick up plants but I do have things shipped to me from around the world with never any problems.From your pictures you certainly grow some lovely plants! Thanks -Russ Hintz at jadeboy48@aol.com From arnold140@verizon.net Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <30611931.896330.1364605733185.JavaMail.root@vznit170134> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:08:53 -0500 (CDT) I routinely toss some wood ashes on snow covered beds during winter. Arnold From Jadeboy48@aol.com Sat, 30 Mar 2013 03:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <38398.707702c2.3e880bc0@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: Sternbergia Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 05:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Dear Jim ,Thanks for your information. I am very familiar when you have a self sterility problem with certain flowers. As a retired grower once I know once other growers find a clone of something that grows well and has some good qualities growers will just multiply that clone.The problem is losing genetic diversity. One disease can wipe out a susceptible clone and then it is gone, maybe forever.-Russ H. In a message dated 3/29/2013 5:48:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jshields@indy.net writes: Another possibility is that we are seeing one single clone making up the commercial stock of Sternbergia. It is probably self-sterile, as many other plants in the Amaryllidaceae are. All you might need to get seeds would be some live pollen from a different clone of the same species. Another problem is that S. lutea occurs as triploid (2n = 3x = 33) as well as the diploid (2n = 22) form. Triploids are usually sterile. See: http://cites bulbs.myspecies.info/content/karyosystematic-study-genus-sternbergia-amaryllidaceae-greece-i-south-aegean-islands I would guess that you will have to find seeds of the diploid form, from one of the seed exchanges or from someone like the Archibalds. Good luck! Jim Shields At 08:23 PM 3/29/2013 +1300, you wrote: >Russ, Sternbergia does not set seed. It is something to do with diploid >or whatever. Do you have one which does set seed, as there is a seed >setting one. But the most often grown one does not set seed. > >Ina ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jshields@indy.net Sat, 30 Mar 2013 06:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130330081915.038bfda8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Fertilizer for Nerine Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 08:27:11 -0400 At 08:08 PM 3/29/2013 -0500, you wrote: > I routinely toss some wood ashes on snow covered beds during winter. > > >Arnold > And this would not pose such a threat. Fresh wood ashes contain the potassium as potassium oxide, K2O, which reacts with water in the air to form KOH, the extremely caustic potassium hydroxide. KOH will absorb carbon dioxide from the air to form potassium carbonate, "potash," which is still alkaline but not so destructive as KOH. Over time, the potassium carbonate absorbs more carbon dioxide from the air and some of it becomes potassium bicarbonate, which is no more dangerous than baking soda. It is all a matter of time and process. Arnold knows all this already, but I thought a few of the others in the group might not. By the way, I have been known to throw wood ashes on the top of a compost pile, where they can weather for a year or two. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From jdbourq@yahoo.co.uk Sat, 30 Mar 2013 23:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1364653332.26626.YahooMailNeo@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: Fertilizer terminology Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 07:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Dear all, One contributor wrote: "Hearing "muriate of potash" and "sulphate of potash" strikes my ears the same way hearing "ain't" and "hain't" does now, too.  They are all soooooo 19th century.  Which is alright if you'd rather be living in the 19th century, I guess.  I'm just a chemist of the 20th and 21st centuries... If you're having a scientific discussion, there is no question which terminology is correct.  If you're having a literary discussion, that's a different matter." I agree fully that when talking "science", we all need to use a standardised terminology. Only, let's not forget that many of us are not scientists, we simply like to grow flowers and use the terms we know. One of the values of a discussion group such as this one is to help those amateur horticulturists among us with such things. This said at 63, I find it quaint to use words that are going out of business, in every day business of course, since they are part of our collective culture.  J. Denys Bourque Saint-Jacques, NB   CANADA From jdbourq@yahoo.co.uk Sat, 30 Mar 2013 23:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1364654807.70106.YahooMailNeo@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: Older terminology Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 07:46:47 -0700 (PDT) With tongue in cheek, David, I didn't know Muriatic Acid = Hydrochloric Acid. Muriatic acid is what people here call the product used to clean the mortar off brickwork; and it is what a bricklayer recommended I should use for a small job in my basement. I asked for it at the local hardware and the attendent got it for me without any hesitation.They both only added to wear protective glasses and gloves.  J. Denys Bourque Saint-Jacques, NB   CANADA From jdbourq@yahoo.co.uk Sat, 30 Mar 2013 23:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1364655277.35667.YahooMailNeo@web161805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: Wood ashes Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 07:54:37 -0700 (PDT) My wife's uncle, who grew up on a farm, recommended I use wood ashes on my onions to kill the "worms" that attack them; only to apply sparsely. From another source, I heard that wood ashes can be used against the Red Lily Bug on lilies and fritillaria: It was recommended to cover the fritillaria with ashes, then wash it off and repeat after two weeks. I'll be trying it this spring and will let you all know... that I... burned them dead. I'll also try a spray of alcohol, as recommended by several on this forum.  J. Denys Bourque Saint-Jacques, NB   CANADA From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sat, 30 Mar 2013 12:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1364667415.78414.YahooMailNeo@web84501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: muriate of potash again Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 11:16:55 -0700 (PDT) The discussion we had earlier this week about the identity of muriate of potash seemed to provide a simple solution: that muriate of potash was the same thing as potassium chloride.  Now I've read something which makes me wonder. One source (the T H Everett Encyclopedia of Gardening from the 1960s) makes the claim that muriate of potash is 85% potassium chloride and 15% sodium chloride.  That was written a half century ago. Can any of our chemists comment on whether that might have been true back then but is/is not true now?  It seems to me that if muriate of potash contains 15% sodium chloride, then it's not the same thing as potassium chloride - certainly not the same thing as Jim Shields' $100/oz potassium chloride. Table salt might be good for some plants (I've read that it's good for asparagus), but many plants are sensitive to it - and who wants to pay muriate of potash prices for table salt? Jim McKenney From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sat, 30 Mar 2013 12:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1364668814.60070.YahooMailNeo@web186002.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: muriate of potash again Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:40:14 +0000 (GMT) Now I've read something which makes me wonder. One source (the T H Everett Encyclopedia of Gardening from the 1960s) makes the claim that muriate of potash is 85% potassium chloride and 15% sodium chloride.  You mean it is a mixture of Muriate of potash and Muriate of soda. Many agricultural chemicals were, and still are to some extent, quite impure. They are much cheaper than pure chemicals and often it does not matter too much. I still see chemicals that should be pure white that are quite grey or full of black specks etc.   I am still trying to remember what the salts of Oil of Vitriol (sulphuric acid, or sulfuric if you prefer) were called, before sulphate. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone COLD still January temperatures here. From jshields@indy.net Sat, 30 Mar 2013 12:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20130330143115.05488990@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: muriate of potash again Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 14:41:51 -0400 This all makes sense, Jim. A century ago, and longer, the existing manufacturing processes did not produce the high purity we can attain today in chemical compounds. Potassium and sodium are both present in all living things (and in their ash residues). Sodium is also present in most natural deposits of potassium. Sodium and potassium are hard but not impossible to separate by crystallization. The sodium salt (chloride, sulfate, whatever) crystallizes out first and the potassium remains in the mother liquors (that really is a technical term) along with some left-over sodium. Concentrate the liquids and repeat the process. Eventually the potassium starts to crystallize out too. You and I, like most other living things, need sodium as well as potassium. I still would not want to buy fertilizers that I knew contained sodium and chloride. Jim Shields At 11:16 AM 3/30/2013 -0700, Jim McK. wrote: >The discussion we had earlier this week about the identity of muriate of >potash seemed to provide a simple solution: that muriate of potash was the >same thing as potassium chloride. > >Now I've read something which makes me wonder. One source (the T H Everett >Encyclopedia of Gardening from the 1960s) makes the claim that muriate of >potash is 85% potassium chloride and 15% sodium chloride. > >That was written a half century ago. Can any of our chemists comment on >whether that might have been true back then but is/is not true now? > >It seems to me that if muriate of potash contains 15% sodium chloride, >then it's not the same thing as potassium chloride - certainly not the >same thing as Jim Shields' $100/oz potassium chloride. > >Table salt might be good for some plants (I've read that it's good for >asparagus), but many plants are sensitive to it - and who wants to pay >muriate of potash prices for table salt? > >Jim McKenney ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <39BBE189C212469AA7C762BE26D244A7@homepc> From: Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 48 - Fertilisers Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:04:30 -0000 Very interesting discussion on fertilisers, its a very useful world where the likes of Jim Shields cuts to the chase as I had totally forgotten some of the terms being used in these posts. Pretty well all plants, whether trees in my past career or every genus of alpine or temperate plants require N. P. K.along with Trace minerals in minute quantities. Our soil here is acidic, very acidic as its derived from glaciated granite debris, generally around the pH 4.5 to 5.0 mark. In order to introduce humus as an aid to good growth we use composted bark derived from mainly Pine + Spruce with a little Birch + Oak but it tends to sequester, lock up, N. so adjustments are made to compensate. Obviously readily available fertilisers most probably vary in their presentation but in Scotland, Europe generally, the medium of choice are slow release granules with varying content of N.P.K. plus trace minerals. In addition these are sold with different rates of release, e.g .6 month, 9 or 18 months. Where we live the use of Bone Meal has its problems, Dogs, Foxes. Martens just love to role in it or dig hoping to find THE BONE, not very welcome habits so I would suggest some thought, at least we no longer have Wolves or Bears to cope with. Jim's advice recommending checking your soil pH is vital, so too is annual and even seasonal precipitation. Soil type can have material effects on rates of fertiliser leaching which needs to be taken account of. Getting any soil tested for pH should be straight forward as every garden centre here sells cheap kits to do just that. Our additional problem in terms of soil fertiliser is the total lack of available free Lime here in almost all of the Highlands, fortunately very few species of Lilium require readily available Lime and this is provided on a localised basis, where needed and always assuming I haven't forgotten. We also use, for seedlings and young bulbs, a balanced soluble fertiliser as salts in suspension when watering, however this stops under our conditions, partly because at close to 58 degrees North our growing season is comparatively short e.g with coastal Pacific USA + Canada and anything later than the end of August, as a rule, stops in order to harden off the bulbs, of whatever age, otherwise in frozen soil a lot of damage occurs including total death despite free draining sandy and gravelly soil. Jim's analogy with rules of taxonomy and chemistry is well made, the world has moved on quite a bit including all measurements being metric. I think I am correct in saying that the USA is now the only country in the world still using imperial measurements in terms of volume, weights, heights, diameters, distances, temperatures, etc. I have now quite forgotten both how to calculate comparisons e.g. Centigrade v. Fahrenheit, its been so long ago, not long after WW2 in fact, and like everyone else I don't even try anymore, my dithering old brain can't cope nor my memory either. That said, other than the US, I think the UK, is the only country left still mucking about in yards and miles, causes our European visitors and tourists no end of bother, quaint indeed. Our gallons for diesel and petrol are equal to five litres, while I think, the US gallon is equal ? roughly to four litres. Some of the chemicals refered to in these posts are simply not freely available to the gardening + horticultural communities in Europe, what's more the prospect of using some of those mentioned, knowing what they are and can do if mishandled, frighten the bejisus out of me. Wood ash is fine for the roses and fruit bushes, but for bulbs, hardly. To conclude, one worrying aspect for me is that the new Lily Monograph probably won't do very well in the USA as everything is cited in metric, Ho Hum! Happy Easter to one + all. May the frost leave our soil soon please, at c. 15 cms {6 inches) its a real pain as the days get longer. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 11:35 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 48 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Fertilizer for Nerine (Gene Mirro) > 2. plant nutrition references for bulbs (Gastil Gastil-Buhl) > 3. Re: Fertilizer for Nerine (J.E. Shields) > 4. Re: Fertilizer for Nerine (Jim McKenney) > 5. Re: Fertilizer for Nerine (Jim McKenney) > 6. Re: Fertilizer for Nerine (J.E. Shields) > 7. Re: Fertilizer for Nerine (Gene Mirro) > 8. Re: plant nutrition references for bulbs (David Pilling) > 9. Re: Fertilizer for Nerine (David Ehrlich) > 10. Re: Moraea 'Zoe' hybrids (Jadeboy48@aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 10:00:59 -0700 > From: "Gene Mirro" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > To: > Message-ID: <4C9E16EF127F4A799E9FCACA33B4B39A@gmirro2PC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Bone meal has long been considered the traditional bulb fertilizer. My > experience is that bulbs really like bone meal. But it is high in P and > has almost no K. How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient? Are there > references? > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 10:35:27 -0700 > From: Gastil Gastil-Buhl > Subject: [pbs] plant nutrition references for bulbs > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <7F4FBECA-7524-42C1-82D6-0788D97CC1FE@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Using the word "bulbs" loosely here... > > Gene asks "How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient? Are there > references?" > > When I sent a soil sample for nutrient analysis to Spectrum Analytic, they > offered to provide recommendations for fertilizer based on crop. I > explained my "crops" were Aristea to Zephranthes and did not expect them > to actually look up references. I was impressed at the research they did. > Where possible they provided nutrient requirements to the genus level, and > for some just to the family level. Of course my species allium are not > going to need the same nutrients as commercial onions (where at least they > distinguish between onions grown for big bulbs versus "green onions" grown > for foliage). I was impressed they would do research for one backyard > baggie of soil. I did warn them ahead of time that I am not a farmer and > not a "real" customer. > > I grabbed a few screenshots from the reports in case this sort of > information is of interest. The complication here is these recommendations > are based on my backyard soil, not your potting mix. The only information > useful here is the sort of nutrients there exist references for and the > level of specificity. > See for example: > http://goo.gl/t88fB > > If you want to try it with your own soil or potting mix I recall it cost > around $60 for the tests I ordered. > > - Gastil > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:41:15 -0400 > From: "J.E. Shields" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20130329132156.0374c5a8@pop.indy.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > References: > > A. R. Rees, "The Growth of Bulbs" Academic Press (1972) > > A. de Hertogh and M. Le Nard, "The Physiology of Flower Bulbs" Elsevier > (1993) > > Bulbs, like most plants, use Phosphate (P) in much smaller amounts than > they use Nitrogen (N) and Potassium (K). Plants grown in soil need > relatively little additional P in most cases. Plants grown in artificial > media need continuous but still not large amounts of P in their > fertilizer. > > Bone meal, depending on how it is processed, may contain small amounts of > N > and of K. N and K are both quite soluble, and whether in soil or in > artificial media, both need to be continuously replenished as they are > washed away. P forms insoluble complexes in soil with Calcium (Ca), > Magnesium (Mg), Manganese (Mn), and Iron (Fe). Once applied to a flower > bed, P remains bound in place, slowly being re-released for many > years. Continuously adding more P to soil tends to tie up most of the Ca > and all of the Fe and Mn. This is not good, and is a waste of > increasingly > hard to get Phosphate. > > I find it interesting that gardeners and even educated horticulturalists > still use names like "muriate of potassium" or "sulfate of potash" which > went out of use in chemistry in the late 19th century. Quaint. > > Wood ashes are a good source of Potassium (K), in the form of potassium > carbonate (a.k.a. "potash") which is also very caustic. Use wood ashes > very, very cautiously unless your soil is extremely acidic. Don't wash > your hands in a strong solution of wood ashes unless you want to remove > most of the skin. I wouldn't use wood ashes directly on any plant bed, not > even at gun-point. > > Jim Shields > > > At 10:00 AM 3/29/2013 -0700, you wrote: >>Bone meal has long been considered the traditional bulb fertilizer. My >>experience is that bulbs really like bone meal. But it is high in P and >>has almost no K. How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient? Are there >>references? > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Lat. 40? 02.8' N, Long. 086? 06.6' W > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:46:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim McKenney > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > <1364582786.56833.YahooMailNeo@web84505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Jim Shields wrote: "?I find it interesting that gardeners and even > educated horticulturalists?still use names like "muriate of potassium" or > "sulfate of potash" which? > went out of use in chemistry in the late 19th century.? Quaint." > > Jim, can you expand on this please?? > > Let's take the term muriate of potash for starters, since that's what I > used my post. Is muriate of potash the same as muriate of potassium? If > both of these terms are outdated, what do you suggest as alternatives?? > > With regard to muriate of potash, that term is widespread in the > horticultural literature (maybe what you would call the outdated > horticultural literature?). Older books warn against using muriate of > potash with potatoes or roses. I've noticed that some commercial > formulations intended for use with roses do not use muriate of potash and > instead use another potassium source, even when formulations from the same > manufacturer use muriate of potash in other of their products. . If > muriate of potash is an outdated term, what term should we be using?? > > Is your objection to the term sulfate of potash the form of the term? In > other words, do you prefer potassium sulfate (and does it mean the same > thing?). > > > Jim McKenney > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim McKenney > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > <1364582983.96027.YahooMailNeo@web84506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Gene asked: "? How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient?? Are there > references???" > > There is an empirical observation to back this up: the sometimes > astonishing bloom observed s year or two after otherwise devastating fires > in wooded areas.? > > Jim McKenney > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:12:28 -0400 > From: "J.E. Shields" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20130329145152.0374c3a0@pop.indy.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > I know Jim McK. likes language and its history. Muriate of potash and > sulphate of potash are historical or alchemical terms. > > The modern scientific names for these compounds are potassium chloride for > "muriate of potash," and potassium sulfate for "sulphate of potash." The > correct names for chemical compounds are defined by the International > Union > for Pure and Applied Chemistry. Just as plant names and animal names are > regulated by international scientific organizations in those fields, so > are > chemical names. > > If there is a difference between "sulphate of potash" and potassium > sulfate, I suppose it might be in purity and degree of characterization, > but there is probably no way of knowing. > > Chloride is toxic to plants at higher levels, so it's never a good idea to > use chloride salts in fertilizers. It therefore helps to know if there is > chloride in your fertilizer, which isn't obvious if we talk about > "muriates." > > Hearing "muriate of potash" and "sulphate of potash" strikes my ears the > same way hearing "ain't" and "hain't" does now, too. They are all > soooooo > 19th century. Which is alright if you'd rather be living in the 19th > century, I guess. I'm just a chemist of the 20th and 21st centuries. > > If you're having a scientific discussion, there is no question which > terminology is correct. If you're having a literary discussion, that's a > different matter. > > Regards, > Jim Shields > > > At 11:46 AM 3/29/2013 -0700, you wrote: >>Jim Shields wrote: " I find it interesting that gardeners and even >>educated horticulturalists still use names like "muriate of potassium" or >>"sulfate of potash" which >>went out of use in chemistry in the late 19th century. Quaint." >> >>Jim, can you expand on this please? >> >>Let's take the term muriate of potash for starters, since that's what I >>used my post. Is muriate of potash the same as muriate of potassium? If >>both of these terms are outdated, what do you suggest as alternatives? >> >>With regard to muriate of potash, that term is widespread in the >>horticultural literature (maybe what you would call the outdated >>horticultural literature?). Older books warn against using muriate of >>potash with potatoes or roses. I've noticed that some commercial >>formulations intended for use with roses do not use muriate of potash and >>instead use another potassium source, even when formulations from the same >>manufacturer use muriate of potash in other of their products. . If >>muriate of potash is an outdated term, what term should we be using? >> >>Is your objection to the term sulfate of potash the form of the term? In >>other words, do you prefer potassium sulfate (and does it mean the same >>thing?). >> >> >>Jim McKenney >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Lat. 40? 02.8' N, Long. 086? 06.6' W > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:28:34 -0700 > From: "Gene Mirro" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > To: > Message-ID: <856FD15A9B884DB7918731BB948493A3@gmirro2PC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I?ve been applying wood ashes directly to garden beds in our very rainy > Spring, always when rain is predicted. It seems to work fine and not > cause any problems. I don?t think I would apply ashes in dry weather with > fully emerged foliage. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:16:00 +0000 > From: David Pilling > Subject: Re: [pbs] plant nutrition references for bulbs > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed > > Hi, > > In message <7F4FBECA-7524-42C1-82D6-0788D97CC1FE@gmail.com>, Gastil > Gastil-Buhl writes >>I grabbed a few screenshots from the reports in case this sort of >>information is of interest. The complication here is these >>recommendations are based on >>http://goo.gl/t88fB > > That's in Google Docs. > > "View" towards the top left under > "Plant_Nutrition_bulbs_Spectrum_Analytic" lets you zoom them up big > enough to read. Or you can use "File" (same place) and then "Download > As" to get a PDF to keep (or zoom). > > > -- > David Pilling > email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk > web: http://www.davidpilling.net > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:49:35 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Ehrlich > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > <1364593775.40006.YahooMailRC@web181506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Not even most chemists these days?are aware that Hydrochloric acid was > once > called Muriatic acid -- both my house guest and I have degrees in > chemistry, and > neither of us knew what Muriatic acid was: we had to look it up in > Wikipedia.? > Muriate of Potash is none other than Potassium chloride -- a sometime > table salt > substitute when used in small quantities. > > David E. > > ________________________________ > From: J.E. Shields > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Fri, March 29, 2013 10:41:00 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > > References: > > A. R. Rees, "The Growth of Bulbs"? Academic Press (1972) > > A. de Hertogh and M. Le Nard, "The Physiology of Flower Bulbs"? Elsevier > (1993) > > Bulbs, like most plants, use Phosphate (P) in much smaller amounts than > they use Nitrogen (N) and Potassium (K).? Plants grown in soil need > relatively little additional P in most cases.? Plants grown in artificial > media need continuous but still not large amounts of P in their > fertilizer. > > Bone meal, depending on how it is processed, may contain small amounts of > N > and of K.? N and K are both quite soluble, and whether in soil or in > artificial media, both need to be continuously replenished as they are > washed away.? P forms insoluble complexes in soil with Calcium (Ca), > Magnesium (Mg), Manganese (Mn), and Iron (Fe).? Once applied to a flower > bed, P remains bound in place, slowly being re-released for many > years.? Continuously adding more P to soil tends to tie up most of the Ca > and all of the Fe and Mn.? This is not good, and is a waste of > increasingly > hard to get Phosphate. > > I find it interesting that gardeners and even educated horticulturalists > still use names like "muriate of potassium" or "sulfate of potash" which > went out of use in chemistry in the late 19th century.? Quaint. > > Wood ashes are a good source of Potassium (K), in the form of potassium > carbonate (a.k.a. "potash") which is also very caustic.? Use wood ashes > very, very cautiously unless your soil is extremely acidic.? Don't wash > your hands in a strong solution of wood ashes unless you want to remove > most of the skin. I wouldn't use wood ashes directly on any plant bed, not > even at gun-point. > > Jim Shields > > > At 10:00 AM 3/29/2013 -0700, you wrote: >>Bone meal has long been considered the traditional bulb fertilizer.? My >>experience is that bulbs really like bone meal.? But it is high in P and >>has almost no K.? How do we know that K is a key bulb nutrient?? Are there >>references? > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields? ? ? ? ? ? USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92? ? ? ? ? ? ? WWW:? ? http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Lat. 40? 02.8' N, Long. 086? 06.6' W > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 19:35:34 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jadeboy48@aol.com > Subject: Re: [pbs] Moraea 'Zoe' hybrids > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <200d.4097f4cf.3e877f46@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Dear Mary-Sue, How does one find someone willing to part with a bulb of > Moraea " Zoe"/ It is quite lovely and anyone willing to sell this or any > other jewel Moraeas can contact me. I have been looking around for a M > pritzeliana too. As I am very disabled I cannot travel to pick up plants > but I do > have things shipped to me from around the world with never any > problems.From > your pictures you certainly grow some lovely plants! Thanks -Russ Hintz at > jadeboy48@aol.com > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 48 > ************************************ From iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <774E5A082D8B45A7A985B1B9E9A56EE5@homepc> From: Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 49 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:10:50 -0000 Ref seed from the Archibald's. Regrettably no longer possible,. As I understand it this particular Scotsman is sadly no longer with us for the past few years now. Jim died aged 68 on August 9th 2010 Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 4:00 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 49 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Fertilizer for Nerine (arnold140@verizon.net) > 2. Re: Sternbergia (Jadeboy48@aol.com) > 3. Re: Fertilizer for Nerine (J.E. Shields) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:08:53 -0500 (CDT) > From: arnold140@verizon.net > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <30611931.896330.1364605733185.JavaMail.root@vznit170134> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I routinely toss some wood ashes on snow covered beds during winter. > > > Arnold > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 05:34:56 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jadeboy48@aol.com > Subject: Re: [pbs] Sternbergia > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <38398.707702c2.3e880bc0@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > Dear Jim ,Thanks for your information. I am very familiar when you have a > self sterility problem with certain flowers. As a retired grower once I > know once other growers find a clone of something that grows well and has > some > good qualities growers will just multiply that clone.The problem is losing > genetic diversity. One disease can wipe out a susceptible clone and then > it > is gone, maybe forever.-Russ H. > > > In a message dated 3/29/2013 5:48:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > jshields@indy.net writes: > > Another possibility is that we are seeing one single clone making up the > commercial stock of Sternbergia. It is probably self-sterile, as many > other plants in the Amaryllidaceae are. All you might need to get seeds > would be some live pollen from a different clone of the same species. > > Another problem is that S. lutea occurs as triploid (2n = 3x = 33) as > well > as the diploid (2n = 22) form. Triploids are usually sterile. See: > http://cites > bulbs.myspecies.info/content/karyosystematic-study-genus-sternbergia-amaryllidaceae-greece-i-south-aegean-islands > > I would guess that you will have to find seeds of the diploid form, from > one of the seed exchanges or from someone like the Archibalds. Good > luck! > > Jim Shields > > > > > At 08:23 PM 3/29/2013 +1300, you wrote: >>Russ, Sternbergia does not set seed. It is something to do with diploid >>or whatever. Do you have one which does set seed, as there is a seed >>setting one. But the most often grown one does not set seed. >> >>Ina > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Lat. 40? 02.8' N, Long. 086? 06.6' W > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 08:27:11 -0400 > From: "J.E. Shields" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizer for Nerine > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20130330081915.038bfda8@pop.indy.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > > At 08:08 PM 3/29/2013 -0500, you wrote: >> I routinely toss some wood ashes on snow covered beds during winter. >> >> >>Arnold >> > > > And this would not pose such a threat. Fresh wood ashes contain the > potassium as potassium oxide, K2O, which reacts with water in the air to > form KOH, the extremely caustic potassium hydroxide. > > KOH will absorb carbon dioxide from the air to form potassium carbonate, > "potash," which is still alkaline but not so destructive as KOH. > > Over time, the potassium carbonate absorbs more carbon dioxide from the > air > and some of it becomes potassium bicarbonate, which is no more dangerous > than baking soda. It is all a matter of time and process. > > Arnold knows all this already, but I thought a few of the others in the > group might not. By the way, I have been known to throw wood ashes on the > top of a compost pile, where they can weather for a year or two. > > Jim Shields > > > > > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Lat. 40? 02.8' N, Long. 086? 06.6' W > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 122, Issue 49 > ************************************ From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 30 Mar 2013 23:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5157D40E.3000507@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: I'm New to PBS... Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:13:34 +1300 If you want to show a picture Louis, you need to upload it to something like Flickr or Picasa and then post the link. As it is the photo was stripped from your email. Ina Crossley Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 29/03/2013 9:55 a.m., Luis Mon wrote: > Hello all, I'm a new member to PBS. I have always been interested in > horticulture and botany. Unfortunately, I currently live in a condo > (coastal California) so I have to do everything in pots. I have 3 > questions to start off. > > 1. Is it OK to ask horticultural questions about "non-bulbs"? > > 2. I realize that potting soils should be tailored to each individual > species. I don't like using "pre-fertilized" mixes which are so > prevalent these days. I have a large bag of Kellogg's mix which is > organic forest products (not too chunky) along with worm casings and > guano. I also have a large bag of horticultural sand. Since most of my > bulbs will be planted in the fall (due to where I live), I am > concentrating on succulents and other plants right now. I will have > many bulb questions in the fall! What ratio of the above ingredients > should I use for your average bulb in a pot? Your average succulent? > > > 3. I bought this cool plant but I don't know what type it is(picture > attached). Anyone know? > > > Again, I apologize for the "non-bulb" questions and a big thank you in > advance. > > Sincerely, Luis M. > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ksayce@willapabay.org Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <9A8BD07F-A9C7-4558-A178-D61B56AF5EA3@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: I'm New to PBS... (Luis Mon) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:00:15 -0700 Welcome to PBS, Luis. Yes, you can ask non-bulb questions, and you may or may not get answers, depending on how-bulb related those questions are. You can also go back through the old messages via the website and look for topics related to the species you are or plan to grow. I've noticed that lately the search engine doesn't seem to work, but it has been very helpful in the past. Cheers Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 31 Mar 2013 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: I'm New to PBS... Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:23:06 -0700 Luis wrote, >1. Is it OK to ask horticultural questions about "non-bulbs"? In my opinion, it's best to stay with bulbs. There are other forums for other kinds of plants. >2. I realize that potting soils should be tailored to each >individual species. I don't like using "pre-fertilized" mixes which >are so prevalent these days. I have a large bag of Kellogg's mix >which is organic forest products (not too chunky) along with worm >casings and guano. I also have a large bag of horticultural sand. >Since most of my bulbs will be planted in the fall (due to where I >live), I am concentrating on succulents and other plants right >now. I will have many bulb questions in the fall! What ratio of the >above ingredients should I use for your average bulb in a pot? Your >average succulent? The recommendation for tailoring potting mixes to species is exaggerated. Very few growers actually do it. I think all you have to do is ensure that your soil has appropriate drainage and nutrients. When I was growing my bulbs in pots, I used the same mixture for almost all of the more than 1200 species. Admittedly, these are all "Mediterranean" cycle bulbs that are summer-dormant -- I don't grow subtropicals or plants such as Hippeastrum and Crinum. Now my collection is entirely in the same soil (pure sharp sand over a layer of loam, nutrients from soluble fertilizer), except for those growing in the garden or rock garden -- and the last, as well as part of the lawn, are populated by a completely random assortment of extras, often in a situation far from what one would expect them to enjoy based on their native habitat. Without knowing what Luis is growing, I could not evaluate his soil product, but "organic forest products" usually means composted ground bark, which I would not put in a soil for summer-dormant species, though apparently it is fine for Lilium, Eucomis, and other summer growers. Also, worm castings are bad for drainage, but if Luis is growing plants that like wet, warm conditions, they might be OK. Jane McGary Portland, oregon, USA From ds429@comcast.net Sun, 31 Mar 2013 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <166907539.289441.1364752069119.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Was I'm New to PBS...now, growing mixes Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 17:47:49 +0000 (UTC) Jane wrote that she grows many things in "pure sharp sand over a layer of loam, nutrients from soluble fertilizer" Jim Duggan recommends something like this: growing bulb s in a layer of sand within a pot of fast-draining potting mix. I had good luck with this strategy for lachenalias. Could any of you share your experiences with these techniques? Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Southeastern PA, z 6/7 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 1:23:06 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] I'm New to PBS... Luis wrote, >1.  Is it OK to ask horticultural questions about "non-bulbs"? In my opinion, it's best to stay with bulbs. There are other forums for other kinds of plants. >2.  I realize that potting soils should be tailored to each >individual species.  I don't like using "pre-fertilized" mixes which >are so prevalent these days.  I have a large bag of Kellogg's mix >which is organic forest products (not too chunky) along with worm >casings and guano. I also have a large bag of horticultural sand. >Since most of my bulbs will be planted in the fall (due to where I >live), I am concentrating on succulents and other plants right >now.  I will have many bulb questions in the fall! What ratio of the >above ingredients should I use for your average bulb in a pot?  Your >average succulent? The recommendation for tailoring potting mixes to species is exaggerated. Very few growers actually do it. I think all you have to do is ensure that your soil has appropriate drainage and nutrients. When I was growing my bulbs in pots, I used the same mixture for almost all of the more than 1200 species. Admittedly, these are all "Mediterranean" cycle bulbs that are summer-dormant -- I don't grow subtropicals or plants such as Hippeastrum and Crinum. Now my collection is entirely in the same soil (pure sharp sand over a layer of loam, nutrients from soluble fertilizer), except for those growing in the garden or rock garden -- and the last, as well as part of the lawn, are populated by a completely random assortment of extras, often in a situation far from what one would expect them to enjoy based on their native habitat. Without knowing what Luis is growing, I could not evaluate his soil product, but "organic forest products" usually means composted ground bark, which I would not put in a soil for summer-dormant species, though apparently it is fine for Lilium, Eucomis, and other summer growers. Also, worm castings are bad for drainage, but if Luis is growing plants that like wet, warm conditions, they might be OK. Jane McGary Portland, oregon, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From gastil.buhl@gmail.com Sun, 31 Mar 2013 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: "M. Gastil-Buhl" Subject: Im New to PBS...now, growing mixes Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 11:45:43 -0700 Welcome Luis, First, I commend you for starting your planning in March for growing next Fall. I wish I had such foresight when I began. Having everything in pots can be an advantage. Many on this list grow primarily in pots. It looks like you have done some research already, as you knew to tell us where you live (coastal California), and you recognize the type of bulb grown (winter growing) affects choice of potting mix. (The book 'Grow Bulbs' by G. Duncan says winter growing bulbs have lower nutrient needs.) I am experimenting with several recipes for potting mix but it is too soon to know which works best. I got started by reading this page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HowToGrowBulbs As Kathleen mentioned, searching the archives can dig up a lot of information. The equivalent to typing "potting mix" in the search box is this google search: "potting mix" site:http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ which finds 604 results! You see PBS members do write often on this important topic. Jane is an expert and I take notes whenever she writes. But given my limited skills I cannot grow a Lily in the same potting mix as a Lachenalia. (The Lily needs more nutrients and water whereas the Lachenalia would rot in a mix that takes half the summer to dry out.) It may be a matter of scale. My garden is small and I spend a lot of time with each plant. If I were a real "grower" on a large scale it would be too complicated to adjust soil, type of pot, feeding and watering to each species. The general advice I read is "you can easily add water but it is difficult to remove water." (I forgot the source.) That is one of the ideas of a rapid-draining, porous potting mix. Today it is raining, so everything gets watered, whether or not the leaves have begun to turn brown (a signal to cease irrigation). The plan is for the bulbs which need a dry dormancy to be in a soil that drains and dries. Thanks for the Lachenalia sand tip Dell. I'll try that, as soon as I get replacements for my lovely Lachenalia that rotted because I had not realized how a mix with too much coir takes months to dry out here. - Gastil Coastal California From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sun, 31 Mar 2013 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <000001ce2e40$51489920$f3d9cb60$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: A great resource on Moraeas Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 11:47:56 -0700 Folks, Following up on the recent discussion of Moraeas, I wanted to point out a great resource created by Bob Werra, the PBS's dean of Moraea-growers. He summarized his experience in a short document posted to the PBS website. We've mentioned the document on this list the past, but we have a lot of new members who may not have noticed it. You can find it here: file:///C:/Users/Michael/AppData/Local/Temp/Mad_about_Moraeas.html The table includes ratings for beauty and ease of cultivation, plus notes on each species that Bob grows. Mike San Jose, CA From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 31 Mar 2013 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <51588666.60009@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: A great resource on Moraeas Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 07:54:30 +1300 I cannot open thislink Mike. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 1/04/2013 7:47 a.m., Michael Mace wrote: > Folks, > > > > Following up on the recent discussion of Moraeas, I wanted to point out a > great resource created by Bob Werra, the PBS's dean of Moraea-growers. He > summarized his experience in a short document posted to the PBS website. > We've mentioned the document on this list the past, but we have a lot of new > members who may not have noticed it. > > > > You can find it here: > > > > file:///C:/Users/Michael/AppData/Local/Temp/Mad_about_Moraeas.html > > > > The table includes ratings for beauty and ease of cultivation, plus notes on > each species that Bob grows. > > > > Mike > > San Jose, CA > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Sun, 31 Mar 2013 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1F3D3A5B-7FFA-4A4B-B2A7-FBC86649DDD1@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: Tim Chapman Subject: A great resource on Moraeas Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 14:14:17 -0500 http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea/Mad_about_Moraeas.html > From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1364757497.26707.YahooMailRC@web181706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: A great resource on Moraeas Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 12:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Here's the correct link to Bob Werra's summary: http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea/Mad_about_Moraeas.html ________________________________ From: Ina To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sun, March 31, 2013 11:54:46 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] A great resource on Moraeas I cannot open thislink Mike. Ina Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand  Zone 10 On 1/04/2013 7:47 a.m., Michael Mace wrote: > Folks, > >  > > Following up on the recent discussion of Moraeas, I wanted to point out a > great resource created by Bob Werra, the PBS's dean of Moraea-growers. He > summarized his experience in a short document posted to the PBS website. > We've mentioned the document on this list the past, but we have a lot of new > members who may not have noticed it. > >  > > You can find it here: > >  > > file:///C:/Users/Michael/AppData/Local/Temp/Mad_about_Moraeas.html > >  > > The table includes ratings for beauty and ease of cultivation, plus notes on > each species that Bob grows. > >  > > Mike > > San Jose, CA > >  > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <51588D39.40206@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: A great resource on Moraeas Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 08:23:37 +1300 Thank you Tim and Marilyn. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 1/04/2013 8:14 a.m., Tim Chapman wrote: > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea/Mad_about_Moraeas.html > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From Jadeboy48@aol.com Sun, 31 Mar 2013 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <19cb2.15ae65ea.3e89f9ca@aol.com> From: Jadeboy48@aol.com Subject: Im New to PBS...now, growing mixes Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 16:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Hi, As a grower fro many, many years of more plants you can name I wanted to say something about potting mixes. Find out where you plant came from in nature and it's growth pattern. For "bulbs" that come from dry summers create a mix about 50% potting soil and 50% med-coarse perlite. It will drain VERY fast and you could water it every day in a 4 inch pot. In nature a lot of bulbs get winter rains. Add about1/4 teaspoon fertilizer per gal. I myself also add 1 ml(same as 1 cc) of a plant called superthrive (found in any garden center). It has some plant hormones that stimulate root development and bulb reproduction. Now I owned a comercial nursery which was my entire source of making a living. So plants that grow in cool weather want food but don't want to live in a swamp so use a fast draining mix. Plus the roots need air to grow. The loose mix allows air to get to the roots. Say you want to grow plants that like it wet, just cut back on the perlite. The organic material in the dirt can hold a lot of water. Mixes with a lot of dirt in it are sometimes called heavy mixes. You will find many bulbs are adaptible but they do not want to be wet all the time or they rot. If you put 1,000 growers in a room and asks what potting mix works for them you will get 1,000 different recipes!! With fast draining mixes it is easier for you to control the amount of water the plant gets. I used to know an old lady in Mexico that grew her bulbs in old coffee cans with 3/4 crushed gravel and sometimes 1/4 streambed dirt. She produced the most fantastic flowers you ever saw on that recipe. She did punch holes in the bottom of the cans. What I would do is ask around with members who produce fantastic plants and see what they do. We have a tremendous amount of hidden talent and you will find there is not just one way to grow a plant/bulb!! Russ H. PS when you plants multiply try to share them. Some can be very expensive and not everyone is rich. In a message dated 3/31/2013 11:45:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gastil.buhl@gmail.com writes: Welcome Luis, First, I commend you for starting your planning in March for growing next Fall. I wish I had such foresight when I began. Having everything in pots can be an advantage. Many on this list grow primarily in pots. It looks like you have done some research already, as you knew to tell us where you live (coastal California), and you recognize the type of bulb grown (winter growing) affects choice of potting mix. (The book 'Grow Bulbs' by G. Duncan says winter growing bulbs have lower nutrient needs.) I am experimenting with several recipes for potting mix but it is too soon to know which works best. I got started by reading this page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HowToGrowBulbs As Kathleen mentioned, searching the archives can dig up a lot of information. The equivalent to typing "potting mix" in the search box is this google search: "potting mix" site:http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ which finds 604 results! You see PBS members do write often on this important topic. Jane is an expert and I take notes whenever she writes. But given my limited skills I cannot grow a Lily in the same potting mix as a Lachenalia. (The Lily needs more nutrients and water whereas the Lachenalia would rot in a mix that takes half the summer to dry out.) It may be a matter of scale. My garden is small and I spend a lot of time with each plant. If I were a real "grower" on a large scale it would be too complicated to adjust soil, type of pot, feeding and watering to each species. The general advice I read is "you can easily add water but it is difficult to remove water." (I forgot the source.) That is one of the ideas of a rapid-draining, porous potting mix. Today it is raining, so everything gets watered, whether or not the leaves have begun to turn brown (a signal to cease irrigation). The plan is for the bulbs which need a dry dormancy to be in a soil that drains and dries. Thanks for the Lachenalia sand tip Dell. I'll try that, as soon as I get replacements for my lovely Lachenalia that rotted because I had not realized how a mix with too much coir takes months to dry out here. - Gastil Coastal California _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun, 31 Mar 2013 17:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: what ate our chocolate eggs? Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 16:49:02 -0700 Totally off-topic, but I figure there might be someone who will know. What ate small foil-wrapped chocolate eggs and jelly beans inside plastic snap-together 'eggs'. Something last night followed the trail of eggs through the woods and left behind opened plastic eggs and bits of foil. One chocolate egg wasn't eaten, but has two toothmarks - the width of the two combined is 1 cm. I guess that is too close together for a raccoon? OK for a squirrel, or rat? Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5158E450.6010508@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Nerine bulb Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 14:35:12 +1300 I was given this bulb by Terry Hatch who had recently received it, but no name. Last winter it was suggested on the PBS it could be Nerine undulata. The bulb has now pushed a large part out of the soil. Should I plant it deeper or leave it?There is a little one and a bigger one coming up to the right of it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/49263888@N06/8607466155/in/photostream Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sun, 31 Mar 2013 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <001d01ce2e84$50f690a0$f2e3b1e0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: A great resource on Moraeas Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:53:53 -0700 Sorry for the bad link, folks. I'm embarrassed! Mike