From maxwithers@gmail.com Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: Erythronium Taxonomy Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:16:26 -0700 Sorry everyone, some of these sites make it almost impossible to tell whether you have access to a paper because it is Open Access or because you have a site license. I'm pretty sure it will be in the Dec. issue of BJLS... and I might be able to send a copy to anyone seriously interested in Erythronium taxonomy or comparative morphologic and phylogenetic cladistics. On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Mark BROWN wrote: > This is a pay per view site and it does not say when the article is to be > published as far as I can see... > Thanks for the info. > Mark > > > > > > > Message du 31/10/12 04:12 > > De : "Max Withers" > > Objet : [pbs] Erythronium Taxonomy > "....there is an > > interesting paper forthcoming in the Botanical Journal of the Linnean > > Society ... > > Clennet et al., "Phylogenetic systematics of Erythronium (Liliaceae): > > morphological and molecular analyses" > > > http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1095-8339.2012.01302.x/abstract > > > > Best, > > Max Withers" > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From mirrog@yahoo.com Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Has anyone used this product? Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:39:41 -0700 As an engineer, my instinctive reaction is that the initial purchase price is so outrageous that you will never recoup it in electricity savings. But I went ahead and actually did the calculation, including the initial purchase price, cost of electricity, service life of the units, and replacement costs. If you run the lamps 12 hours per day, 365 days per year, and if electricity costs 10 cents per kw-hr, it will take 122 years to break even with fluorescents. This was using numbers that were biased in favor of the Lumibar. I have flowered and collected seed of many plants under conventional fluorescents. I and many others grow beautiful tomato and pepper seedlings under fluorescents. They are exaggerating the spectral deficiencies of fluorescents. If you are really worried about the lack of red light, you can always string a couple of small incandescents between the fluorescents, and have all the red light you need. A primary concern would be that this company will no longer be there when your unit fails prematurely. Also note that customer reviews cannot be found. I'm not sure how to interpret that. If I were doing horticultural research, and I needed a light source with adjustable spectrum, I would seriously consider this unit. The bells and whistles add a lot of value for research. But it is massive overkill for the indoor gardener, assuming it works. IMO, of course. From gardenbetter@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 01:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Shmuel Silinsky Subject: Has anyone used this product? Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 03:47:14 -0400 Speaking of fluorescent lights - we used to mix cool white and warm light fluorescent tubes to get a good spectral mix. A more expensive alternative, but still cheaper than LED is to mix in an aquarium tube - many are formulated specifically to be plant friendly. Shmuel Jerusalem zone 9b From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu, 01 Nov 2012 03:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1589104672.60783.1351762051395.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m18> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Erythronium Taxonomy Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:27:31 +0100 (CET) I would love to read it if possible... Kind regards, Mark. > Message du 01/11/12 05:16 > De : "Max Withers" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Objet : Re: [pbs] Erythronium Taxonomy > " Sorry everyone, some of these sites make it almost impossible to tell > whether you have access to a paper because it is Open Access or because you > have a site license. I'm pretty sure it will be in the Dec. issue of > BJLS... and I might be able to send a copy to anyone seriously interested > in Erythronium taxonomy or comparative morphologic and phylogenetic > cladistics." From christian.lachaud@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 03:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Christian Lachaud Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 11:07:47 +0100 May I suggest that the problem seems difficult to solve because it is not only multidimensional, but also involving a layered structure? If levels exist but are conflated in the model, confusion will prevail and the model will fail to predict reality properly. From santoury@aol.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF8654631148B7-868-63BE1@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Hi gang Can you help me ID this Haemanthus? This is a mother and her offset bulb - the mother is tangerine size, for size reference. The leaves are not pubescent. The flowers are your typical albiflos type. http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/8144721127/in/photostream ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:02:24 +0100 Looks for me as albiflos Roland 2012/11/1 The Silent Seed > Hi gang > Can you help me ID this Haemanthus? This is a mother and her offset bulb - > the mother is tangerine size, for size reference. The leaves are not > pubescent. The flowers are your typical albiflos type. > > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/8144721127/in/photostream > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? > santoury@aol.com > The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From santoury@aol.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF865C9AFADAC9-868-64360@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 11:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Albiflos is hairy, no ? I was told maybe paucifolius ? ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Bulborum Botanicum To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 11:02 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Fwd: Haemanthus Looks for me as albiflos Roland 2012/11/1 The Silent Seed > Hi gang > Can you help me ID this Haemanthus? This is a mother and her offset bulb - > the mother is tangerine size, for size reference. The leaves are not > pubescent. The flowers are your typical albiflos type. > > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/8144721127/in/photostream > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? > santoury@aol.com > The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:33:55 +0100 my plants just have a few small hairs on the edges from the leaves the rest from the leaves are hairless Roland 2012/11/1 The Silent Seed > Albiflos is hairy, no ? > I was told maybe paucifolius ? > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? > santoury@aol.com > The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bulborum Botanicum > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 11:02 am > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fwd: Haemanthus > > > Looks for me as albiflos > > Roland > > > 2012/11/1 The Silent Seed > > > Hi gang > > Can you help me ID this Haemanthus? This is a mother and her offset bulb > - > > the mother is tangerine size, for size reference. The leaves are not > > pubescent. The flowers are your typical albiflos type. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/8144721127/in/photostream > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? > > santoury@aol.com > > The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From kimcmich@hotmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 10:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 09:26:31 -0700 Too many leaves (and each too large) for paucifolius. My albiflos are only a little hairy on their margin as Roland's are. It's not impossible for it to be something else, but I find that with robust, evergreen Haemanthus mystery plants, in most cases it's albiflos. -| From: bulborum@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:33:55 +0100 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fwd: Haemanthus > > my plants just have a few small hairs on the edges from the leaves > the rest from the leaves are hairless > > Roland > > > 2012/11/1 The Silent Seed > > > Albiflos is hairy, no ? > > I was told maybe paucifolius ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? > > santoury@aol.com > > The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bulborum Botanicum > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 11:02 am > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fwd: Haemanthus > > > > > > Looks for me as albiflos > > > > Roland > > > > > > 2012/11/1 The Silent Seed > > > > > Hi gang > > > Can you help me ID this Haemanthus? This is a mother and her offset bulb > > - > > > the mother is tangerine size, for size reference. The leaves are not > > > pubescent. The flowers are your typical albiflos type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/8144721127/in/photostream > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? > > > santoury@aol.com > > > The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > R de Boer > > La Maugardiere 1 > > F 27260 EPAIGNES > > FRANCE > > > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jshields@indy.net Thu, 01 Nov 2012 10:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20121101130630.05e66b18@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 13:11:12 -0400 Right -- white flowers? 2 to 4 erect leaves? Not hairy? Evergreen? albiflos. Pauculifolius has 1 or 2 leaves, very definitely hairy. There are only three evergreen species: albiflos, deformis, and pauculifolius. All three have white flowers. Jim Shields At 09:26 AM 11/1/2012 -0700, you wrote: >Too many leaves (and each too large) for paucifolius. My albiflos are only >a little hairy on their margin as Roland's are. It's not impossible for it >to be something else, but I find that with robust, evergreen Haemanthus >mystery plants, in most cases it's albiflos. >-|.... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From santoury@aol.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 10:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF866B50D564F1-868-6514D@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 13:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Thanks all ! From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 01 Nov 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <5092E1FB.2070709@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: seed setting in Narcissus fernandessii Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 09:56:27 +1300 When I had only one bulb, the flowers set seed. When there were more, the following season, there was less seed per flower. This year there is quite a clump of them and no seed at all. It is not lack of bees as other trees and flowers set seed very well. Which makes me wonder, can seed set be affected by how much space there is? These bulbs are in a pot as they are strongly scented and it is the only way to get the benefit of that. And I do repot, so it is not that there is no fertility in the soil. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From adalwolf@live.se Thu, 01 Nov 2012 15:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "alf" Subject: seed setting in Narcissus fernandessii Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 22:55:26 +0100 Hello Ina ! The longer they stay in the same pot without repotting the more flower you will get. By repotting they will just put up more leafs and you will get fewer flowers. All is well , winter is here. Take care of yourself and the dog! Hugs Alf ---------------------------------------------- From: "Ina" Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:56 PM To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Subject: [pbs] re seed setting in Narcissus fernandessii > When I had only one bulb, the flowers set seed. When there were more, > the following season, there was less seed per flower. This year there > is quite a clump of them and no seed at all. It is not lack of bees as > other trees and flowers set seed very well. Which makes me wonder, can > seed set be affected by how much space there is? > > These bulbs are in a pot as they are strongly scented and it is the only > way to get the benefit of that. And I do repot, so it is not that there > is no fertility in the soil. > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From leo@possi.org Thu, 01 Nov 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 19:03:46 -0700 (PDT) See what I started? I still think the best definition of plant species is "whatever a competent botanist familiar with the plants in the field says it is." I especially like the fact this definition excludes botanists who do their field work in herbaria. Leo Martin From othonna@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 19:29:06 -0700 Leo, I like that definition but herbarium work *compliments* field work, and today these are in turn complimented by molecular work. The competition is for funding rather than between approaches. Dylan On 1 November 2012 19:03, Leo A. Martin wrote: > See what I started? > > I still think the best definition of plant species is "whatever a > competent botanist familiar with the plants in the field says it is." > > I especially like the fact this definition excludes botanists who do their > field work in herbaria. > > Leo Martin > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 02:42:01 +0000 Leo, you made me remember that on a number of occasions when taking LIVING plants to prestigious herbariums, they could not ID them, and asked for some time to press and dry them before producing a name. From zigur@hotmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 19:46:22 -0700 Complement? Herbaria and molecular work RELY on fieldwork, surely? T From othonna@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 20:01:05 -0700 Yes, and that reliance is complimentary in terms of producing anything useful. Field work is helped along by herbarium studies and monographs and so forth, leading to more productive field work. Otherwise we have piles of dead sticks that serve no purpose. No one makes fun of medical sample taking but for some reason gardeners never tire of throwing stones at botanists who make specimens. What do they think is the basis for naming plants and understanding their relationships? It can't all be field work ... Dylan On 1 November 2012 19:46, Tim Harvey wrote: > Complement? Herbaria and molecular work RELY on fieldwork, surely? > > T > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From othonna@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 20:01:58 -0700 And it can't all be lab work either! On 1 November 2012 19:46, Tim Harvey wrote: > Complement? Herbaria and molecular work RELY on fieldwork, surely? > > T > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Tim@" Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 22:06:24 -0500 That should be a true statement, however it is not. Too many taxonomists never step into the field. There are of course many that do and are true experts in their discipline due to a more complete understanding of what they study. Its like comparing someone who has read every book on a topic in his library to the authors writing the books. A book or herbarium sheet is just a snapshot and does not tell the whole story, there is always more to see and learn than what has already been documented. Tim C On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:46 PM, Tim Harvey wrote: > Complement? Herbaria and molecular work RELY on fieldwork, surely? > > T > > _ From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 21:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 20:55:01 -0700 Jim Shields wrote: > I think that a future definition(s) of "species" will attempt to > circumscribe the "envelope" of DNA sequences that are encompassed by a > given species. This answer will probably be different for different > species. I think it will be very different for plants than for animals; > and microbiologists seem to have already gone off on their on very separate > track for defining populations rather than species. Binomial nomenclature > seems to be giving way to serial numbers that computers can more easily > handle. You don't draw pictures of phylogenetic trees, you calculate new > ones using the latest data as you need them. Today's tree won't look like > yesterday's unless the databases were locked down overnight. > Jim, from your spectator status, you have formulated a completely clairvoyant nature of this field and where it's heading. I raise my cyber wine glass to you! Dylan et al., I think field work is the best part and I could never do without it, but I would argue that a good body of work could still be produced from studying in herbaria alone, given that the specimens are adequately preserved and that there are lots of them that represent the range of the species. There are limitations to what can be done in the field. How often does a taxonomist have the time and funding to spend a month in the field? And even if you think you're there at the right season, you may not find what you're looking for. Even in the most productive field season, you will most likely be missing the range of material that good herbaria have accumulated over the years. Those who actually do field work and even grow their own material for study can gain a lot of information about the organism when observed in their living state. This is another important reason to support living collections. When I studied California onions, I relied on material fresh from the field, the herbarium, and the living collection at the UCBG. All of these complemented each other. For the systematist, field work is often necessary because of the degraded conditions of many herbarium species. 100 years, and even 200 years may not be a problem for morphology, but even in the best preserved state, specimens that are older than 50 years often yield poor quality DNA so degraded that it can't be used. Some major herbaria used to heat their specimens periodically to kill the pests; unfortunately it also kills the DNA through the heat cool cycles. Herbaria have learned their lessons and now freeze their specimens instead. The bright side to all of this is that it brings people back into the field and thus completing the circle. Nhu From othonna@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 21:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 21:14:05 -0700 Tim C, I don't know any taxonomists who never have stepped into the field, and I have known many dozens of botanists. How did you form this idea? No one would suggest that an herbarium specimen tells the whole story. They are essentially permanent records that can remain useful for several hundred years. In the case of type specimens they form the referential basis for naming plants. Dried specimens are the only practical way to sort through variation, for example, in a species or genus without doing months or years of field work. Herbaria build upon generations of collectors: millions of specimens, records of extirpated populations or species, enabling the replication of previous studies, and on and on. There is no substitute for this, not even DNA samples. "There is always more to see and learn than what has already been documented." Of course. That is why botanists can still find jobs, if they are lucky. Dylan Hannon From randysgarden@gmail.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Locality data Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 21:48:49 -0700 Just to chime in, which I have been resisting, I think that those who rely on one discipline, genetic, morphologic, whatever, miss the bigger picture. Over specialization, reliance on convenient theories and/or definitions that are of little practical value across disciplines and are also highly subjective, only try to enforce an order on taxonomy that is, frankly artificial and for our own convenience and can often mean very little to the living organisms we attempt to force our concepts of order on. There is much each approach offers, and just as likely much it wrongly negates. Living systems are far more diverse, complex, and resistant to human devised constraints than we would like to believe. Randy Monterey Bay Region, California On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Hannon wrote: > Tim C, > > I don't know any taxonomists who never have stepped into the field, and I > have known many dozens of botanists. How did you form this idea? > > No one would suggest that an herbarium specimen tells the whole story. They > are essentially permanent records that can remain useful for several > hundred years. In the case of type specimens they form the referential > basis for naming plants. > > Dried specimens are the only practical way to sort through variation, for > example, in a species or genus without doing months or years of field work. > Herbaria build upon generations of collectors: millions of specimens, > records of extirpated populations or species, enabling the replication of > previous studies, and on and on. There is no substitute for this, not even > DNA samples. > > "There is always more to see and learn than what has already been > documented." > > Of course. That is why botanists can still find jobs, if they are lucky. > > Dylan Hannon > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- * * * * From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Thu, 01 Nov 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <9E4F1FEC-97BF-403B-96D9-D2511BAA4E43@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: "Tim@" Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 00:11:50 -0500 Dylan, I know a few personally that have worked exclusively from Herbarium sheets. There is one particular example of a well known taxonomist that was regarded as the world expert in his field that had never been in the field during his "rise." When he finally made a trip others that were there basically said it was only a photo op. I am not saying herbarium sheets are useless by any means. But when you have a multitude of tools at your disposal, sticking to only one is an almost guarantee that your work is nowhere near as useful as it should be. Sticking to what I know best, gingers are a prime example of why herbarium sheets can not provide the full picture. Gingers flowers and often the plants themselves to not hold up well over time. There has been so much confusion over many species that herbarium sheets just can't solve. However the type locations along with notes on some of these very old sheets have helped solve some issues when the plants can still be found in the type location. The best work in this family is done by taxonomists that utilize multiple disciplines. For example, when a new species is published the journal or corresponding PDF has detailed accounts of the habitat and plant features, a key separating closely related species, molecular work to show where this species falls in within its genus, and if herbarium specimens were found that had been mislabeled or unknown but thought to be of this species they are referenced as well. In addition to providing pressed specimens, detailed photogra phy including good macro shots etc are included. Using all of these tools makes one's work more valid in my mind and less likely to be dismissed by others in the future. There are species and genera that MUST be studied in the field, without this work anyone attempting to work on these plants is wasting their time in the long run. Yes it is difficult and expensive and will take a huge commitment but a true monographing of these genera can't exist without it. There is no excuse for publishing new species in this age without significant proof, yet its happening frequently still. 3 new Zingiberaceae genera published in recent times have been shot down within the last year, and several species. (And more in the works I'm told). Tim C Sent from my iPhone On Nov 1, 2012, at 11:14 PM, Hannon wrote: > Tim C, > > I don't know any taxonomists who never have stepped into the field, and I > have known many dozens of botanists. How did you form this idea? > > No one would suggest that an herbarium specimen tells the whole story. They > are essentially permanent records that can remain useful for several > hundred years. In the case of type specimens they form the referential > basis for naming plants. > > Dried specimens are the only practical way to sort through variation, for > example, in a species or genus without doing months or years of field work. > Herbaria build upon generations of collectors: millions of specimens, > records of extirpated populations or species, enabling the replication of > previous studies, and on and on. There is no substitute for this, not even > DNA samples. > > "There is always more to see and learn than what has already been > documented." > > Of course. That is why botanists can still find jobs, if they are lucky. > > Dylan Hannon > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 02 Nov 2012 02:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <50938618.8080205@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: seed setting in Narcissus fernandessii Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 21:36:40 +1300 Alf, there were lots of flowers, no lack of them. It is the fact that they have not set seed, for the first time, and I suspect it is because of too many bulbs and a natural selection so they don't get too crowded. Animals do it, but do bulbs? Does anyone know? And Ellie is fine, thank you.... Ina On 2/11/2012 10:55 a.m., alf wrote: > Hello Ina ! > > The longer they stay in the same pot without repotting the more flower you > will get. > By repotting they will just put up more leafs and you will get fewer > flowers. > > All is well , winter is here. > Take care of yourself and the dog! > > Hugs Alf > ---------------------------------------------- > From: "Ina" > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:56 PM > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Subject: [pbs] re seed setting in Narcissus fernandessii > >> When I had only one bulb, the flowers set seed. When there were more, >> the following season, there was less seed per flower. This year there >> is quite a clump of them and no seed at all. It is not lack of bees as >> other trees and flowers set seed very well. Which makes me wonder, can >> seed set be affected by how much space there is? >> >> These bulbs are in a pot as they are strongly scented and it is the only >> way to get the benefit of that. And I do repot, so it is not that there >> is no fertility in the soil. >> >> -- >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1bcd.660dff68.3dc5329b@aol.com> From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Subject: seed setting in Narcissus fernandessii Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:28:44 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 11/2/12 1:36:49 AM, klazina@orcon.net.nz writes: > Animals do it, but do bulbs? Does anyone know? > This is definitely true in my tazetta narcissus, with the less fertile types (generally triploids like Grand Monarque) it is almost pointless to pollinate on established bulbs. only newly planted (uncrowded) are at all fertile. On the very fertile diploid types like Autumn Colors or Paperwhites I get seeds either way, so will have to observe if there is a dfference in quantity . But there sure is on any of those that are only marginally fertile due to genetic issues. PS do you have freesia alba form Burtonii? Best wishes, Bill the Bulb Baron (William R.P. Welch) William R.P. Welch, 1031 Cayuga Street Apt B, Santa Cruz, CA 95062 From othonna@gmail.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 10:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:07:58 -0700 Thanks, Tim. I don't think we are in disagreement here. I do find it puzzling that so often there is contempt for those who study dried plant specimens, even as they remain an essential resource. This article discusses approaches to understanding phylogeny: http://freecourseware.uwc.ac.za/freecourseware/biodiversity-conservation-biology/rankless-taxonomy The article shows two important ideas. First, that classification and phylogeny are two different but closely related pursuits; and that the modern seeks to displace the traditional ("rankless taxonomy" in place of the Linnaean system). The author does not see the former replacing the latter anytime soon-- think of "*Tulipa saxatilis"* being replaced by a "uninominal" or a string of numbers as Jim Shields indicates. The itch to trade out an herbarium-based species concept for an exclusively or primarily DNA-based concept only moves us from one set of difficulties to another and moves science further away from beneficiaries who are not academics themselves. Dylan From petersirises@gmail.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:58:00 +0000 I remember a tale from the botony department of Glasgow, where a phd student took in a fresh sample of an oak from his garden, they could only identify it once they split the stem and examined the vessels. Peter (UK) On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:42 AM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > > > Leo, you made me remember that on a number of occasions when taking LIVING > plants to prestigious herbariums, they could not ID them, and asked for > some time to press and dry them before producing a name. > > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 02 Nov 2012 12:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <50941422.5030006@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: freesia alba form Burtonii was seed setting in Narcissus fernandessii Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 07:42:42 +1300 I don't as I don't like Freesias. However, I didn't know about this one so will do some research and let you know. If I can find them, evidently they don't doseed setting much. So I don't know how useful that would be to you Bill. Ina On 3/11/2012 3:28 a.m., Billthebulbbaron@aol.com wrote: > PS do you have freesia alba form Burtonii? -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 12:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 19:15:47 +0000 That's the point, Peter, people receiving those living plants I mention, were the experts on those genera and could not recognize them unless dried and pressed. Oxalis was one of those. From Tony@plantdelights.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:31:18 -0400 Dylan: I think many of us are bemoaning the fact that field taxonomy is a becoming lost skill. I've lost track of how many times I've shown a growing specimen to a taxonomist/botanist and had the effective reply of; kill it and smash it...then we'll tell you what it was. A few years ago, I participated in a native plant inventory field count in a wild area near us. I figured I'd take a flowering phlox that I'd found years earlier from the Virginia shale barrens in hopes of getting a confirmed id. The phlox was passed around through then hands of 30 different expert botanists including botany professors. After it had a thorough examination by each, the group leader declared that is was most certainly in the Polemoniaceae family, but after making a herbarium specimen, he might be able to tell me more. You just can't make this stuff up. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From othonna@gmail.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 13:06:52 -0700 Tony, Yes, but for every such case how often have you been in the field with a botanist who confidently affirmed "That is Arisaema species x"? The idea that so many botanists are crippled without dried specimens for study is not accurate. A good field botanist may stumble over a few plants in an area known to him but his direct knowledge of living plants will outweigh those plants many times over. Some plants show certain characters best when they are dried (drying blackish, etc.) so it is not a "cop-out" to resort to identification based on dried material. To identify a plant in a difficult genus often includes critical comparison with specimens in the herbarium. Many plants are not difficult to identify either live or pressed, but some are. Perhaps we should ask ourselves what we expect from the botanical profession, and if it is at all realistic to expect them to function perfectly with only living plants. If your botanist is perplexed by an unfamiliar Phlox, how well would any of us fare with only herbarium sheets of random Zephyranthes? Are those sheets worthless because they are difficult to match up with living examples of the same species? I note that medical doctors routinely ask for samples that mean nothing to us visually. That does not invalidate their importance. Dylan On 2 November 2012 12:31, Tony Avent wrote: > Dylan: > > I think many of us are bemoaning the fact that field taxonomy is a > becoming lost skill. I've lost track of how many times I've shown a > growing specimen to a taxonomist/botanist and had the effective reply of; > kill it and smash it...then we'll tell you what it was. A few years ago, I > participated in a native plant inventory field count in a wild area near > us. I figured I'd take a flowering phlox that I'd found years earlier from > the Virginia shale barrens in hopes of getting a confirmed id. The phlox > was passed around through then hands of 30 different expert botanists > including botany professors. After it had a thorough examination by each, > the group leader declared that is was most certainly in the Polemoniaceae > family, but after making a herbarium specimen, he might be able to tell me > more. You just can't make this stuff up. > > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA > Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F > Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdelights.com > phone 919 772-4794 > fax 919 772-4752 > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least > three times" - Avent > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <50942A2F.1050402@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: seed setting in Narcissus fernandessii Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 09:16:47 +1300 Bill and Roland, I have bought some bulbs just now. Will see next season if any will set seed. Ina On 3/11/2012 3:28 a.m., Billthebulbbaron@aol.com wrote: > do you have freesia alba form Burtonii? -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From Tony@plantdelights.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:27:17 -0400 Dylan: We've obviously traveled with a different group of botanists. In 30+ years of field work, I am hard pressed to think of more than 1 or 2 professional botanists that I've ever run across who could identify plants correctly in the field. That is not the case with keen plantsmen of which I prefer to travel with since we can usually identify plants in the field with a very high degree of accuracy. I would not have had a problem with the example I mentioned earlier, if they had said, Yes, it's a phlox. We'll need to consult herbarium specimens to determine which one. But, to not even recognize a native phlox as a phlox...sorry, that's pitiful. I'm not intending to demean herbarium taxonomy, as we would all be lost without it. I have spent a good bit of time studying in herbarium, both in the US and around the world. My fear, also confirmed by many botanists with which we work, is that schools are putting less emphasis on field botany and more on lab skill...their words, which I concur. While some identification characteristics are only visible in dead, smashed plants, many others are only available in living plants; i.e. how the plants actually grow along with population diversity. These characteristics are almost never included in keys written by herbarium taxonomists. We are currently working with researchers to "fix" the genera ophiopogon and liriope. I nearly screamed when the new Flora of China declared there was only six species of liriope, when we grow nine. Someone who obviously had never seen a living plant merged totally distinctive species like L. muscari and L. platyphylla. There are unquestionably some fabulous field botanists, many of which are on this list. The problem is that I don't see these truly great human resources being replaced by the younger generation. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hannon Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 4:07 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Locality data Tony, Yes, but for every such case how often have you been in the field with a botanist who confidently affirmed "That is Arisaema species x"? The idea that so many botanists are crippled without dried specimens for study is not accurate. A good field botanist may stumble over a few plants in an area known to him but his direct knowledge of living plants will outweigh those plants many times over. Some plants show certain characters best when they are dried (drying blackish, etc.) so it is not a "cop-out" to resort to identification based on dried material. To identify a plant in a difficult genus often includes critical comparison with specimens in the herbarium. Many plants are not difficult to identify either live or pressed, but some are. Perhaps we should ask ourselves what we expect from the botanical profession, and if it is at all realistic to expect them to function perfectly with only living plants. If your botanist is perplexed by an unfamiliar Phlox, how well would any of us fare with only herbarium sheets of random Zephyranthes? Are those sheets worthless because they are difficult to match up with living examples of the same species? I note that medical doctors routinely ask for samples that mean nothing to us visually. That does not invalidate their importance. Dylan On 2 November 2012 12:31, Tony Avent wrote: > Dylan: > > I think many of us are bemoaning the fact that field taxonomy is a > becoming lost skill. I've lost track of how many times I've shown a > growing specimen to a taxonomist/botanist and had the effective reply > of; kill it and smash it...then we'll tell you what it was. A few > years ago, I participated in a native plant inventory field count in a > wild area near us. I figured I'd take a flowering phlox that I'd > found years earlier from the Virginia shale barrens in hopes of > getting a confirmed id. The phlox was passed around through then > hands of 30 different expert botanists including botany professors. > After it had a thorough examination by each, the group leader declared > that is was most certainly in the Polemoniaceae family, but after > making a herbarium specimen, he might be able to tell me more. You just can't make this stuff up. > > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA > Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F > Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdelights.com > phone 919 772-4794 > fax 919 772-4752 > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least > three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From othonna@gmail.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 13:50:27 -0700 Tony, 100% agreed on the way things are trending in academia. What I lament most in modern botany is that a large proportion of botanists is dismissive of the importance of producing useful products: keys that work, floras, revisions, monographs, information (books) available outside the arcane journals. The "internet age" has done very little to break the barriers between amateurs and the more scientific information they seek. The emphasis (read: funding) today is almost exclusively on theoretical modeling (cladograms), molecular level studies, etc. These scientists seem absorbed primarily in process and method rather than output, which they may see as static or instantly archaic. So understanding is increased in some areas but the audience that benefits by that understanding shrinks because of the evermore technical nature of the output and its venue. I would liken your Phlox flunkie to those who say that the organism is irrelevant-- its molecular history and variation are what matter, whether it be fish or fowl. "Let's sequence it before we form our views". Does that not show a similar ignorance and contempt for living things? Dylan From Tony@plantdelights.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:57:13 -0400 Dylan: I won't start a diatribe on plant keys, but last week, we were keying out a calylophus from Texas. Using three different floras from Texas, we were sent to three different species. All three keys were completely contradictory on a genus as small as calylophus. Surely, we can turn out better taxonomists than that! Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hannon Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 4:50 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Locality data Tony, 100% agreed on the way things are trending in academia. What I lament most in modern botany is that a large proportion of botanists is dismissive of the importance of producing useful products: keys that work, floras, revisions, monographs, information (books) available outside the arcane journals. The "internet age" has done very little to break the barriers between amateurs and the more scientific information they seek. The emphasis (read: funding) today is almost exclusively on theoretical modeling (cladograms), molecular level studies, etc. These scientists seem absorbed primarily in process and method rather than output, which they may see as static or instantly archaic. So understanding is increased in some areas but the audience that benefits by that understanding shrinks because of the evermore technical nature of the output and its venue. I would liken your Phlox flunkie to those who say that the organism is irrelevant-- its molecular history and variation are what matter, whether it be fish or fowl. "Let's sequence it before we form our views". Does that not show a similar ignorance and contempt for living things? Dylan From othonna@gmail.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:24:17 -0700 OK, point taken! I'll just add one related story of interest regarding Muilla clevelandii, which is quite similar at a glance to Bloomeria crocea. When I finally was able to look at both species side by side I found 2-3 excellent floral characters to separate them. They were not the characters traditionally used in the floras to separate them but they were arguably better. On 2 November 2012 13:57, Tony Avent wrote: > Dylan: > > I won't start a diatribe on plant keys, but last week, we were keying out > a calylophus from Texas. Using three different floras from Texas, we were > sent to three different species. All three keys were completely > contradictory on a genus as small as calylophus. Surely, we can turn out > better taxonomists than that! > > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA > Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F > Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdelights.com > phone 919 772-4794 > fax 919 772-4752 > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least > three times" - Avent > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Hannon > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 4:50 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Locality data > > Tony, > > 100% agreed on the way things are trending in academia. What I lament most > in modern botany is that a large proportion of botanists is dismissive of > the importance of producing useful products: keys that work, floras, > revisions, monographs, information (books) available outside the arcane > journals. The "internet age" has done very little to break the barriers > between amateurs and the more scientific information they seek. > > The emphasis (read: funding) today is almost exclusively on theoretical > modeling (cladograms), molecular level studies, etc. These scientists seem > absorbed primarily in process and method rather than output, which they may > see as static or instantly archaic. So understanding is increased in some > areas but the audience that benefits by that understanding shrinks because > of the evermore technical nature of the output and its venue. > > I would liken your Phlox flunkie to those who say that the organism is > irrelevant-- its molecular history and variation are what matter, whether > it be fish or fowl. "Let's sequence it before we form our views". Does that > not show a similar ignorance and contempt for living things? > > Dylan > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From john@oltarakwa.co.uk Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <009c01cdb940$e294cae0$a7be60a0$@oltarakwa.co.uk> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 21:27:38 -0000 Tony - at least they hadn't just been copied one from the next! John Grimshaw > I won't start a diatribe on plant keys, but last week, we were keying > out a calylophus from Texas. Using three different floras from Texas, > we were sent to three different species. All three keys were > completely contradictory on a genus as small as calylophus. Surely, > we can turn out better taxonomists than that! > > > Tony Avent From Tony@plantdelights.com Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Locality data Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:43:40 -0400 John: Now, there's a glass half full attitude, but don't these folks even talk to each other...geez! Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of John Grimshaw Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 5:28 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Locality data Tony - at least they hadn't just been copied one from the next! John Grimshaw > I won't start a diatribe on plant keys, but last week, we were keying > out a calylophus from Texas. Using three different floras from Texas, > we were sent to three different species. All three keys were > completely contradictory on a genus as small as calylophus. Surely, > we can turn out better taxonomists than that! > > > Tony Avent From frankcar1965@comcast.net Fri, 02 Nov 2012 23:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: "FrankCar" Subject: Merwilla plumbea Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 00:27:24 -0500 After seeing Scilla maderensis online and knowing it would not do well here I got the next best thing. It's close enough for me! I ordered seeds last spring and got good germination. Despite moving house and lack of care during the process they are still alive and doing well. They must be tough since they dried out due to my inattention but came right back. I have never grown bulbs from seed before and read that it would best to just transplant the whole lot together without separating them. Then I have read to separate into individual pots. What to do? And should I let them go dry for the winter or keep them growing? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/frankcar1965/DSCF4007.jpg From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat, 03 Nov 2012 00:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1895921315.33533.1351925884352.JavaMail.www@wwinf1k19> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 07:58:04 +0100 (CET) Hello, I am just wondering quite why Narcissus triandrus albus is commercially unavailable? I remember growing this years ago and none of the modern hybrids come even close to its color or poise! It was such a sweet and refined small plant. What has happened to it? Can anyone suggest a similar alternative in cream or better still white? All those I can find are far too huge! Kind regards, Mark From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 01:17:14 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Merwilla plumbea Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 07:46:26 +0000 My limited experience with Merwilla plumbea suggests that they should be pretty dry in winter. I would give them another year as clumps in bigger pots, otherwise you will have a lot of extra pots to look after. In general bulbs are much easier to handle when they are bigger. Separating out too soon is fiddly and likely to damage the seedlings before they are robust enough to cope. Your seedlings look well enough grown that if you wished to separate them and space them around a large pot (or plant individually) they should be fine. This would normally optimise the growth for the next year. I only state good general practice as I have limited experience with Merwilla. Peter (UK) On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 5:27 AM, FrankCar wrote: I have never grown bulbs from seed before and read that it would best to just transplant the whole lot together without separating them. Then I have read to separate into individual pots. What to do? And should I let them go dry for the winter or keep them growing? > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/frankcar1965/DSCF4007.jpg > From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 01:17:14 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 07:54:35 +0000 It is available from small nurseries and seed exchanges, I find it tricky and temperamental to grow. N. 'Solveigs Song' is a very good hybrid which you might like? or for white colour N waterii, which I find much easier and is very easy from seed, the trick to it is not to let it get dry while in growth. N. 'Xit' is another attractive small daffodill. Peter (UK) On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Mark BROWN wrote: > Hello, > > I am just wondering quite why Narcissus triandrus albus is commercially > unavailable? > Can anyone suggest a similar alternative in cream or better still white? > > All those I can find are far too huge! > > From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 01:17:14 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 08:55:34 +0100 Hello Mark I am working on it try to get real good mother-plants Narcissus triandrus albus was always collected in the nature forbidden for the harvest there was no stock to grow and because not completely hardy (as far as i know) not really interesting to grow for the commercial growers Roland 2012/11/3 Mark BROWN > Hello, > > I am just wondering quite why Narcissus triandrus albus is commercially > unavailable? > I remember growing this years ago and none of the modern hybrids come even > close to its color or poise! > > It was such a sweet and refined small plant. > What has happened to it? > > Can anyone suggest a similar alternative in cream or better still white? > > All those I can find are far too huge! > > Kind regards, > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 01:17:14 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Fwd: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 08:56:20 +0100 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bulborum Botanicum Date: 2012/11/3 Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus triandrus albus To: Pacific Bulb Society Hello Mark I am working on it try to get real good mother-plants Narcissus triandrus albus was always collected in the nature forbidden for the harvest there was no stock to grow and because not completely hardy (as far as i know) not really interesting to grow for the commercial growers Roland 2012/11/3 Mark BROWN > Hello, > > I am just wondering quite why Narcissus triandrus albus is commercially > unavailable? > I remember growing this years ago and none of the modern hybrids come even > close to its color or poise! > > It was such a sweet and refined small plant. > What has happened to it? > > Can anyone suggest a similar alternative in cream or better still white? > > All those I can find are far too huge! > > Kind regards, > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 01:17:14 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 08:01:37 +0000 Slack Top Alpines, near Rochdale in the UK, used to sell N triandrus albus Peter (UK) From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat, 03 Nov 2012 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1002679054.53330.1351939393388.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m29> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 11:43:13 +0100 (CET) Peter, These hybrids just don't have the feel of N. triandrus albus. Narcissus 'Solveig's Song' is much closer to N. bubocodium. I have grown 'Xit' very succesfully for years. It is a charmer but does not have the delicate nodding bells in that off white shade.  Roland, That is excellent news! But I wonder why it is no longer listed by the big companies as it used to be? Kind regards, Mark " N. 'Solveigs Song' is a very good hybrid which > you might like? or for white colour N waterii, which I find much easier and > is very easy from seed, the trick to it is not to let it get dry while in > growth. N. 'Xit' is another attractive small daffodill. > Peter (UK)" _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat, 03 Nov 2012 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <522464100.53412.1351939574948.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m29> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 11:46:14 +0100 (CET) Peter,  their list has no narcissus on it this year... Mark > Message du 03/11/12 09:01 > De : "Peter Taggart" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Narcissus triandrus albus > > Slack Top Alpines, near Rochdale in the UK, used to sell N triandrus albus > Peter (UK) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat, 03 Nov 2012 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <242984546.53481.1351939686899.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m29> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 11:48:06 +0100 (CET) Dear Roland, That explains things nicely! Thank-you. Mark > Message du 03/11/12 08:56 > De : "Bulborum Botanicum" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Narcissus triandrus albus > > Hello Mark > > I am working on it > try to get real good mother-plants > > Narcissus triandrus albus was always collected in the nature > forbidden for the harvest there was no stock to grow > and because not completely hardy (as far as i know) > not really interesting to grow for the commercial growers > > Roland > > > > 2012/11/3 Mark BROWN > > > Hello, > > > > I am just wondering quite why Narcissus triandrus albus is commercially > > unavailable? > > I remember growing this years ago and none of the modern hybrids come even > > close to its color or poise! > > > > It was such a sweet and refined small plant. > > What has happened to it? > > > > Can anyone suggest a similar alternative in cream or better still white? > > > > All those I can find are far too huge! > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From mirrog@yahoo.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 08:34:56 -0700 I've got some in the garden. I didn't collect seed this year, but if anybody wants some, let me know, and I'll collect some seed next year. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 03 Nov 2012 10:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 10:12:36 -0700 Roland wrote: >I am working on it >try to get real good mother-plants > >Narcissus triandrus albus was always collected in the nature >forbidden for the harvest there was no stock to grow >and because not completely hardy (as far as i know) >not really interesting to grow for the commercial growers Many years ago I bought bulbs of this plant from an importer that I now suspect was selling wild-collected bulbs. Some years later, a Dutch bulb grower visited my garden, saw it, and asked for bulbs because he said it was an unusually good form. I sent them to him that summer, but I don't know if the form ever entered commerce. (Muscari muscarimi 'Frost', with the same history, has done so.) I didn't know it was unusual, but it is larger than the forms I have since grown from wild-collected seed. I brought the "good" form with me when I moved recently, and it is still flourishing. It has been perfectly hardy outdoors in temperatures down to about 12 F, growing in rich soil in a raised bed designed mostly for ericaceous plants. I won't offer seed of it to the PBS, though, because I grow so many Narcissus in close proximity that any seed is likely to produce hybrids. I seem to recall reading that f. albus is actually the more common color form of N. triandrus, and the yellow form is more unusual to find. The latter is a pleasing light, clear yellow, as I've grown it from seed from the Archibalds. I don't have any experience with the hybrids, but some were bred at Mitsch Nursery near my home, so they should be hardy down to the mid-teens Fahrenheit. This is just one more example of why it's important to keep growing a variety of clones from wild populations, though now we know that collected seeds are what we should use, not collected bulbs. We should all do our best to support reputable and ethical seed collectors. Chris Chadwell is still pursuing his longstanding practice of selling shares in his expeditions (and I bought one recently, hoping my efforts in helping arrange his US lecture tour next spring will encourage him to treat me to some of the cream of the crop, which has not always been the case for US investors). Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 13:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:31:45 +0100 Good to hear Jane that means it should be hardy here normally Roland 2012/11/3 Jane McGary > Roland wrote: > >I am working on it > >try to get real good mother-plants > > > >Narcissus triandrus albus was always collected in the nature > >forbidden for the harvest there was no stock to grow > >and because not completely hardy (as far as i know) > >not really interesting to grow for the commercial growers > > Many years ago I bought bulbs of this plant from an importer that I > now suspect was selling wild-collected bulbs. Some years later, a > Dutch bulb grower visited my garden, saw it, and asked for bulbs > because he said it was an unusually good form. I sent them to him > that summer, but I don't know if the form ever entered commerce. > (Muscari muscarimi 'Frost', with the same history, has done so.) I > didn't know it was unusual, but it is larger than the forms I have > since grown from wild-collected seed. I brought the "good" form with > me when I moved recently, and it is still flourishing. It has been > perfectly hardy outdoors in temperatures down to about 12 F, growing > in rich soil in a raised bed designed mostly for ericaceous plants. I > won't offer seed of it to the PBS, though, because I grow so many > Narcissus in close proximity that any seed is likely to produce hybrids. > > I seem to recall reading that f. albus is actually the more common > color form of N. triandrus, and the yellow form is more unusual to > find. The latter is a pleasing light, clear yellow, as I've grown it > from seed from the Archibalds. I don't have any experience with the > hybrids, but some were bred at Mitsch Nursery near my home, so they > should be hardy down to the mid-teens Fahrenheit. > > This is just one more example of why it's important to keep growing a > variety of clones from wild populations, though now we know that > collected seeds are what we should use, not collected bulbs. We > should all do our best to support reputable and ethical seed > collectors. Chris Chadwell is still pursuing his longstanding > practice of selling shares in his expeditions (and I bought one > recently, hoping my efforts in helping arrange his US lecture tour > next spring will encourage him to treat me to some of the cream of > the crop, which has not always been the case for US investors). > > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From mirrog@yahoo.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 15:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <7E6DC293931846EFA2896C65575591DF@emirrojr> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 14:35:16 -0700 OK, I've got all the seed requests I can handle. From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat, 03 Nov 2012 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <188278958.86411.1351983370857.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m26> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 23:56:10 +0100 (CET) Perhaps you can arrange to get a bulb or two Roland, This stock sounds like a very good form to grow? Especially if you are wanting to multiply a good strain. Mark "Message du 03/11/12 20:32 > De : "Bulborum Botanicum" > Objet : Re: [pbs] Narcissus triandrus albus > > Good to hear Jane > that means it should be hardy here normally > > Roland" From loujost@yahoo.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1351987830.44903.YahooMailClassic@web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Locality data Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:10:30 -0700 (PDT) People have talked about some of the reasons why fieldwork is important in taxonomy, but we haven't mentioned the most fundamental reason. We need to know exactly how species overlap in space, and what they do when they overlap. Do they form rare hybrids? Do they form so many intergrades that most individuals cannot  be unambiguously identified? And how much variation is there in each species in the regions where they don't overlap? The behavior of populations is critically important when  trying to identify biological (as opposed to morphological) species. And herbarium records are often not detailed enough to determine whether two species really overlap in their actual habitat.   Herbarium specimens are still very important, though. We need some convenient way of comparing plants side by side when the need arises, and herbarium specimens (especially those coupled with flowers preserved in alcohol rather than pressed) afford that opportunity. Lou From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Locality data Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 00:15:14 +0000 Coming to the plants within this forum's scope, just to mention one, Zephyranthes are almost impossible to tell apart from pressed specimens only (with few exceptions). . From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 18:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 00:53:07 +0000 Someone in Europe has been distributing quantities of wild collected Narcissus seed FOR FREE with the purpose of avoiding wild collection of bulbs by unscrupulous merchants. From mirrog@yahoo.com Sat, 03 Nov 2012 21:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <379CF69B0A4542D09E248BDC336A44A6@emirrojr> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:51:07 -0700 I just found this on DavesGarden.com: "plant does not set seed, flowers are sterile, or plants will not come true from seed" My plants set seed. And they come true from seed. Are most commercial bulbs being raised by tissue culture now? Could that be why people aren't getting good seed? From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 04 Nov 2012 01:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Narcissus triandrus albus Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 07:29:13 +0000 My experiance with these small daffodil species is that the flowers often abort if they are coverd or kept too dry in growth. Also crowded clumps seem to set a disproportionately small quantity of seed, as recently discussed with another section which Ina is growing. N triandrus is not sterile in cultivation, -I have had seeds on my plants in the past. The bulbs sold by Michael at Slack Top Alpines were seed grown and some of my plants came from him. Seed of N triandrus varieties is regularly offerd in the Alpine Garden Society seed exchange. Peter (UK) On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 3:51 AM, Gene Mirro wrote: > I just found this on DavesGarden.com: "plant does not set seed, flowers > are sterile, or plants will not come true from seed" > > My plants set seed. And they come true from seed. Are most commercial > bulbs being raised by tissue culture now? Could that be why people aren't > getting good seed? > > From d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de Sun, 04 Nov 2012 03:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50964AF4.7020705@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dietrich_M=FCller-Doblies?= Subject: Locality data Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 12:01:08 +0100 Dear Tim C, Could you please consider to give the names of the few botanists you know personally "that have worked exclusively from Herbarium sheets"? You wrote: "There is one particular example of a well known taxonomist that was regarded as the world expert in his field that had never been in the field during his "rise." When he finally made a trip others that were there basically said it was only a photo op." I think there are very few important taxonomists as your "particular example of a well known taxonomist" and these are mostly persons of the past, that lived in times, when travelling was far more time consuming and a botanist could hardly combine a post as herbarium worker or do extensive field work. Such a "particular example" is John Gilbert Baker (1834-1920), the author of most "PBS" species with bulbs and corms in the Liliaceae, Amaryllidaceae, Iridaceae etc. (246 publications with more than 8000 new plant names). He wrote the vol. VI of Flora Capensis (Haemodoraceae to Liliaceae, 1896-1897), the respective vol. of the Flora of Tropical Africa (1898) and Flora of Mauritius and the Seychelles (1877) without ever having been to Africa, as far as I know. Usually he did excellent work, but e.g. in Albuca there are great errors: He described the same species Albuca tenuifolia 1873 (better known until recently as Albuca shawii) again in 1874 as Albuca shawii, in 1889 as Albuca trichophylla, in 1891 as Albuca elliottii, in 1897 (in Fl. Cap.) as Albuca minima, and in 1904 as Albuca granulata, i.e. altogether six times. A funny story of infrageneric taxonomy can be added here: he placed these six "species" into three of his four subgenera of Albuca. Adolf Engler (1844-1930) travelled quite a lot: in Northern and East Africa, the Canaries, Asia and finally around the world, but most of his taxonomy was based on herbarium and greenhouse studies, e.g. quite a number of bulbous species from Southern Africa. His travel to Namibia was centred on a visit of Welwitschia, were he was guided by Dinter. Anna Amelia Obermeyer (1907-2001) is in my opinion the second best taxonomist of Southern Africa in the field of bolbology. She is a good example of a herbarium-centred taxonomist. When she saw the plants which my wife and me brought from the field to ask her opinion she complained to the PRE director that she also wants to do some field work and she was allowed to have an excursion with Inge Oliver (and another lady not mentioned as collector) to the Western Cape. Here is an addition to Leo's "funny story" and another example to Alberto Castillo's remark "Leo, you made me remember that on a number of occasions when taking LIVING plants to prestigious herbariums, they could not ID them, and asked for some time to press and dry them before producing a name. ": A few years before her excursion to the Western Cape, Oberm. had published the Gladiolus book (1972), where she had to finish the manuscript of the late Gwendoline Joyce Lewis (1909-1967). On this excursion it happened that Mrs. Mauve (publishing under her maiden name Obermeyer) could not name a flowering Gladiolus. Only when changing the nappies of the plant press a few days later she could immediately name the flattened Gladiolus specimen. [report of the late Inge Oliver] In our first paper on Ornithogalum (1982) we published Ornithogalum annae-ameliae based on a Compton collection of which Oberm. had sent us a herbarium specimen to illustrate what she understands under Ornithogalum monophyllum. We can understand that Oberm. did not accept this species devoted to her, as she she had a firm herbarium picture and experience with this group. But even when we collected Ornithogalum annae-ameliae at Compton's type locality and brought it as live plants to her she could not change her firm herbarium-based opinion, which she had laid down in her Ornithogalum revision of 1978. In this corner-stone paper of Southern African Ornithogalum taxonomy Obermeyer recognized 54 Ornithogalum species. 18 years later in our incomplete Revisionula of 1996 we enumerated 123 Ornithogalum species. This increase in number by more than the double had nothing to do with splitting. On one side we had forty new species and on the other side we could resuscitate 26 species from Obermeyer's synonymy. With our field experience of some twenty years we had a far better understanding of the type specimens quoted by Obermeyer. In fact these 26 resuscitations are only a first start of what is still hidden in Obermeyer's Ornithogalum synonymy. We had only concentrated on those taxa of which we had satisfactory field knowledge. For Ornithogalum suaveolens Obermeyer lists eight synonyms, seven of which are good species and the only the eights one is error which does even not belong into the subgenus Osmyne as defined by Obermeyer. For Ornithogalum juncifolium, however, Obermeyer lists even 16 synonyms, of which we only could resuscitate six species for the time being, leaving ten names in the synonymy (of which several are still good species as we know today). With similar numbers Obermeyer lists 14 synonyms for Ornithogalum graminifolium, of which we only resuscitated a single species for the time being. For Ornithogalum unifolium Obermeyer lists six synonyms, three of which were resuscitated by us. Thus, as it emerges nearly unisonously from the PBS forum on Locality data with more than 50 contributions, both research fields, herbarium and field work need each other in most cases. May I conclude with the name of the best taxonomist of Southern Africa in the field of bolbology in my opinion, Winsome Fanny Barker (1907-1994), who joined the staff of NBG as assistant in 1933, and was curator from 1957-1972. She combined herbarium and field work in an ideal way. After the notice of a herbarium problem she chose the next suitable weekend for a field trip. When she started in 1933 Lachenalia comprised about 30 species, when she died she had added about 80 Lachenalia species. And for most of the new Lachenalia species which Duncan published, he could base himself on Barker's preliminary studies and herbarium sheets. With best wishes to all forum contributors Dietrich Am 02.11.2012 06:11, schrieb Tim@: > Dylan, > > I know a few personally that have worked exclusively from Herbarium sheets. There is one particular example of a well known taxonomist that was regarded as the world expert in his field that had never been in the field during his "rise." When he finally made a trip others that were there basically said it was only a photo op. > > I am not saying herbarium sheets are useless by any means. But when you have a multitude of tools at your disposal, sticking to only one is an almost guarantee that your work is nowhere near as useful as it should be. > > Sticking to what I know best, gingers are a prime example of why herbarium sheets can not provide the full picture. Gingers flowers and often the plants themselves to not hold up well over time. There has been so much confusion over many species that herbarium sheets just can't solve. However the type locations along with notes on some of these very old sheets have helped solve some issues when the plants can still be found in the type location. The best work in this family is done by taxonomists that utilize multiple disciplines. For example, when a new species is published the journal or corresponding PDF has detailed accounts of the habitat and plant features, a key separating closely related species, molecular work to show where this species falls in within its genus, and if herbarium specimens were found that had been mislabeled or unknown but thought to be of this species they are referenced as well. In addition to providing pressed specimens, detailed photog ra > phy including good macro shots etc are included. Using all of these tools makes one's work more valid in my mind and less likely to be dismissed by others in the future. > > There are species and genera that MUST be studied in the field, without this work anyone attempting to work on these plants is wasting their time in the long run. Yes it is difficult and expensive and will take a huge commitment but a true monographing of these genera can't exist without it. > > There is no excuse for publishing new species in this age without significant proof, yet its happening frequently still. 3 new Zingiberaceae genera published in recent times have been shot down within the last year, and several species. (And more in the works I'm told). > > Tim C > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 1, 2012, at 11:14 PM, Hannon wrote: > >> Tim C, >> >> I don't know any taxonomists who never have stepped into the field, and I >> have known many dozens of botanists. How did you form this idea? >> >> No one would suggest that an herbarium specimen tells the whole story. They >> are essentially permanent records that can remain useful for several >> hundred years. In the case of type specimens they form the referential >> basis for naming plants. >> >> Dried specimens are the only practical way to sort through variation, for >> example, in a species or genus without doing months or years of field work. >> Herbaria build upon generations of collectors: millions of specimens, >> records of extirpated populations or species, enabling the replication of >> previous studies, and on and on. There is no substitute for this, not even >> DNA samples. >> >> "There is always more to see and learn than what has already been >> documented." >> >> Of course. That is why botanists can still find jobs, if they are lucky. >> >> Dylan Hannon >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From randysgarden@gmail.com Sun, 04 Nov 2012 15:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Merwilla plumbea Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:42:51 -0800 On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Peter Taggart wrote: > My limited experience with Merwilla plumbea suggests that they should be > pretty dry in winter. I grow Plumbea drakensbergensis. Here in California with our Mediterranean climate it does quite will in a moderately well draining mix exposed to the rain over winter. However, I usually have only light frosts and it is very rare that temperatures fall below 28F (-2C) for more than a few hours, and even then the high for that day will usually be in the mid 40s. As is frequently noted, a lot depends on your local conditions, but for me many, though certainly not all, dry winter species will overwinter, even in large pots, as long as they are not too wet and they are not subject to prolonged cold below 28F. Randy Monterey Bay Regions, California From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 04 Nov 2012 15:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: OT 'Pacific' Sempervivum Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 17:09:53 -0600 Dear Friends, I was asked by a UK friend if I could help him to get some of the 'Pacific' series of Sempervivum; selections or hybrids. If anyone on the Pacific coast or other have any to share, please write to me jwaddick@kc.rr.com Much appreciated. Thanks and best From d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de Sun, 04 Nov 2012 16:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <5096FA86.3090002@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dietrich_M=FCller-Doblies?= Subject: Locality data Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 00:30:14 +0100 Hi All, Two true locality data questions: Who cultivates Massonia pustulata from Loriesfontein? Who has some detail information about its origin. Since when is it n cultivation? Who was possibly the collector? From where around Loriesfontein? A nice week with flowering surprises to all! Dietrich From bulborum@gmail.com Sun, 04 Nov 2012 16:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: OT 'Pacific' Sempervivum Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 00:39:18 +0100 You can try here www.carlo*dewilde*.nl/ Carlo has the national collection and has over 1500 different Sempervivum and Jovibarba Roland 2012/11/5 James Waddick > Dear Friends, > > I was asked by a UK friend if I could help him to get some > of the 'Pacific' series of Sempervivum; selections or hybrids. > > If anyone on the Pacific coast or other have any to share, > please write to me jwaddick@kc.rr.com > > Much appreciated. Thanks and best > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From arnold140@verizon.net Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <26797418.398939.1352079096646.JavaMail.root@vznit170130> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: OT 'Pacific' Sempervivum Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 19:31:36 -0600 (CST) This one worked for me. http://www.carlodewilde.nl/index.htm Arnold On 11/04/12, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: You can try here www.carlo*dewilde*.nl/ From maxwithers@gmail.com Sun, 04 Nov 2012 21:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:01:21 -0800 I will shortly move to Austin TX from Oakland CA, and am trying to imagine gardening in an alternate universe. Many of my questions were answered by a fantastic graph of monthly rainfall averages Lee Poulsen made: http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/RainfallGraphs/Medit-and-Austin.pdf Thanks Lee! I do not think I will try to subject most most of my mediterranean climate bulbs to the high summer heat and rainfall -- and Zone 8 winters. (Many of them will end up on the BX, so keep an eye out next summer). There are a few things I would like advice on. Can Lilium candidum handle such hot wet summers? What about evergreen South Africans? I'm considering bringing a few Cyrtanthus spp. in pots to keep dry in winter -- can they handle summer heat if well-watered? Can Tecophilaea handle zone 8 if I keep it somewhere cool in the summer? I'm looking forward to Lycoris, Rhodophiala, Zephranthes, whatever Tony Avent is selling. What other genera should I think about? Thanks, Max Withers From jshields@indy.net Mon, 05 Nov 2012 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20121105075634.03086fa8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 07:58:16 -0500 Max, Crinum and Hymenocallis galore! Hippeastrum hybrids. Jim Shields At 09:01 PM 11/4/2012 -0800, you wrote: >I will shortly move to Austin TX from Oakland CA, and am trying to imagine >gardening in an alternate universe. ..... > >I'm looking forward to Lycoris, Rhodophiala, Zephranthes, whatever Tony >Avent is selling. What other genera should I think about? > >Thanks, >Max Withers >_______________________________________________ ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:22:02 +0000 While I agree with Jim's summary of evergreen Haemanthus, the variation in albiflos is remarkable. I have two plants which both key out as albiflos. One from the Amatola forest area, which is just like the typical one that gets passed around in car boot sales. It produces plenty of offsets and the bulbs crowd out the pot above ground. The other plant however is from the bushveld area north of Port Elizabeth. It has not produced a single offset for me yet in over years and the bulbs remain below ground level. Unfortunately, as the flowers are no better than the typical albiflos it does not have a lot going for it apart from being unusual. I took a photo of my two plants side by side at the weekend - they are more or less the same age but the bushveld one I have to cosset, while the forest form gets placed on any old windowsill and forgotten about. http://www.flickr.com/photos/63276845@N00/8154560276/ Chris Right -- white flowers? 2 to 4 erect leaves? Not hairy? Evergreen? albiflos. Pauculifolius has 1 or 2 leaves, very definitely hairy. There are only three evergreen species: albiflos, deformis, and pauculifolius. All three have white flowers. Jim Shields At 09:26 AM 11/1/2012 -0700, you wrote: >Too many leaves (and each too large) for paucifolius. My albiflos are only >a little hairy on their margin as Roland's are. It's not impossible for it >to be something else, but I find that with robust, evergreen Haemanthus >mystery plants, in most cases it's albiflos. >-|.... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40? 02.8' N, Long. 086? 06.6' W www.rhs.org.uk Browse, shop and quiz experts from over 30 specialist nurseries and trade stands at the RHS Garden Hyde Hall Celebration of Plants, 12-14 August. Get Involved: E-Newsletter, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube Twitter #hashtags: #rhshampton, #rhstatton The Royal Horticultural Society (RHS) is the UK's leading gardening charity dedicated to advancing horticulture and promoting good gardening. Anyone with an interest in gardening can enjoy the benefits of RHS Membership and help us to secure a healthy future for gardening. For more information call: 0845 130 4646, or visit http://www.rhs.org.uk Please do not print this email if you really don't need to. The contents of this email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, proprietary and may be legally privileged. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. If you are not the intended recipient you may not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this email. The sender is not responsible for any changes made to any part of this email after transmission. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Society. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free from any virus or other defects which might affect any computer or IT system into which they are received, no responsibility is accepted by the Society or any of its associated companies for any loss or damage arising in any way from the receipt or use thereof. From rbartontx@yahoo.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1352123894.56137.YahooMailNeo@web124501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rodney Barton Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:58:14 -0800 (PST) Dietes Rod - Near Dallas and just a bit too far north. Subject: [pbs] Bulbs for hot summers > >I will shortly move to Austin TX from Oakland CA, and am trying to imagine >gardening in an alternate universe. ... > >I'm looking forward to Lycoris, Rhodophiala, Zephranthes, whatever Tony >Avent is selling. What other genera should I think about? > >Thanks, >Max Withers > From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:36:57 -0800 Chris, The plant with a solitary subterranean bulb is interesting. Snijman (1984) says nothing about the bulbs of H. albiflos growing above or below ground but the commonly seen material in California grows with bulbs naturally above the soil. Is your Port Elizabeth plant representative of a population or is it just an odd individual? Pertinent to recent discussions, Snijman has this to say about variation in pubescence in H. albiflos: "*Recent collections have shown however, that the entire range, from hairy to glabrous forms, exists within a very small area*." This demonstrates the important point made here by various writers that often a species cannot be characterized by a single individual that is known in cultivation. Some variation seems "impossible" until it is witnessed in the field. Dylan Hannon From totototo@telus.net Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <50979B5E.9934.1F03@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Fwd: Haemanthus Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:56:30 -0800 On 5 Nov 2012, at 8:36, Hannon wrote: > Pertinent to recent discussions, Snijman has this to say about variation in > pubescence in H. albiflos: > > "*Recent collections have shown however, that the entire range, from hairy > to glabrous forms, exists within a very small area*." > > This demonstrates the important point made here by various writers that > often a species cannot be characterized by a single individual that is > known in cultivation. Some variation seems "impossible" until it is > witnessed in the field. This inspires me to haul out an over-used sermon on the subject and remind everyone, especially relative newbies, that the type specimen of a species may, in fact, be very atypical. Indeed, many type specimens are from the margins of a plant's natural distribution (where it's not particularly common and catches the eye of the collector) and hence more likely to deviate significantly from the average form of the species. Without being able to point to a single example, I'm quite sure that there have been cases where several marginal forms were given separate names and only when the full range of variation was later investigated was it realized that these were all the same species. So keep that in mind: "type" in the taxonomic sense does not mean "typical". -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From john@oltarakwa.co.uk Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <00a501cdbb88$38ef0fb0$aacd2f10$@oltarakwa.co.uk> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: A review of 'The Genus Lachenalia' Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:03:20 -0000 I've written a review of The Genus Lachenalia', by Graham Duncan, on my blog, if anyone is interested. http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/the-genus-lachenalia. html It's a great book. John Grimshaw Visit John Grimshaw's Garden Diary http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/ Dr John M. Grimshaw 1 Kirkhill Farm Settrington Malton North Yorkshire YO17 8NT Tel. 01944 768494 From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 12:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: very hardy gladiolus Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:32:16 -0800 A friend's grandmother hybridized gladiolus on her 3.5 acres in the Eastern Townships of Quebec, near the Saint Lawrence River. She just did it for pleasure. He remembers how frilly the flowers were. She died about 40 years ago and the property was sold. He went back to visit recently and drove past the old place. The gladiolus were still blooming along the driveway, in the grass. They would be covered by huge piles of snow all winter, as the driveway would be plowed regularly and the snow pushed to the side. The soil is about 20 feet of sand. Diane Whitehead Victoria British Columbia, Canada From klazina@orcon.net.nz Mon, 05 Nov 2012 12:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <50981B7F.6070005@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:03:11 +1300 If you look at my photos of the flowers which have been flowering since winter, my climate would be very similar to what you will have. There are of course more flower to come in this as it is only late spring so far. https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/WhatSFlowering2012SpringAndSummer?authkey=Gv1sRgCIecz7-looLZXQ Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 5/11/2012 6:01 p.m., Max Withers wrote: > I'm looking forward to Lycoris, Rhodophiala, Zephranthes, whatever Tony > Avent is selling. What other genera should I think about? From annamwal@interia.pl Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <73698FC6ABE54B2C9A0D6A30FC3F5B97@MarekKomputer> From: "A. M. Walnik" Subject: A review of 'The Genus Lachenalia' Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 21:06:55 +0100 John, Thank you for the review! I love books by Graham Duncan, I have got some of them, but the idea of printing only one thousand copies and the price of $200 are beyond my imagination... Marek W, Poland ... and only H. albiflos flowering on a windowsill... -----Oryginalna wiadomosc----- From: John Grimshaw Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 8:03 PM Subject: [pbs] A review of 'The Genus Lachenalia' From ds429@comcast.net Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <284041187.1281315.1352149445406.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: very hardy gladiolus Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 21:04:05 +0000 (UTC) Diane wrote:  "The soil is about 20 feet of sand." Do you mean 20 ft of depth? Dell ----- Original Message ----- _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4019765D-A343-494D-93BE-A9C8929A7CF2@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: very hardy gladiolus Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:16:21 -0800 yes There was a commercial sandpit next door, which was 20 feet deep. There was clay below that. On 5-Nov-12, at 1:04 PM, ds429@comcast.net wrote: > > > Diane wrote: "The soil is about 20 feet of sand." > > > Do you mean 20 ft of depth? > From zera@umich.edu Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Sean Zera Subject: very hardy gladiolus Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:47:07 -0500 Did your friend take photos? They sound like they'd be worth seeing. Sean Z From zera@umich.edu Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Sean Zera Subject: hardy gladiolus ID Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:03:22 -0500 On a related note, I could use some help IDing a hardy gladiolus. These were cheap Dutch bulbs from a local supermarket, labelled *nanus*'Sabrina', but don't at all resemble photos of several dissimilar cultivars sold as that. They're short, bloom in late summer, and appear fully hardy here with no snow cover. The background color is somewhat brighter yellow than my terrible photo shows. http://www.flickr.com/photos/58877781@N00/8159112326/in/photostream Sean Z Zone 6a SE Michigan From plantnutga@gmail.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 18:48:44 -0500 Definitely rainlilies (Zephyranthes, Habranthes, Cooperia) also Milla, Polyanthes. Hymenocallis. Gladiolus including G. muriealea. Crinum & Americrinum. Whatever today's name is for Freesia laxa. Any species of ginger. Bulbs for Warm Climates (Thad Howard) Garden Bulbs for the South (Scott Ogden) Erin Grace Thomasville, Georgia, USA USDA Hardiness zone 8b, AHS Heat Zone 9 On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Ina wrote: > If you look at my photos of the flowers which have been flowering since > winter, my climate would be very similar to what you will have. There > are of course more flower to come in this as it is only late spring so far. > > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/WhatSFlowering2012SpringAndSummer?authkey=Gv1sRgCIecz7-looLZXQ > > Ina > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 5/11/2012 6:01 p.m., Max Withers wrote: > > I'm looking forward to Lycoris, Rhodophiala, Zephranthes, whatever Tony > > Avent is selling. What other genera should I think about? > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Mon, 05 Nov 2012 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <509869C5.6030006@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 14:37:09 +1300 This is an excellent book for your new climateconditions. Ina On 6/11/2012 12:48 p.m., Erin Grace wrote: > Garden Bulbs for the South (Scott Ogden) -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 01:39:53 +0000 Scott Ogden's book would be a great guide to what you can grow in your new location. Thad Howard's describes many bulbs for such climate and to others plus the addition of rare bulbs that could not be grown well there. From prallen2@peoplepc.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <23173660.1352171103678.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: patty allen Subject: hardy gladiolus ID Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 21:05:03 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Would be interested in a swap or purchase of a few . if you were agreeable. These are very pretty glads. Patty Allen Zone 9a Humble, Texas -----Original Message----- >From: Sean Zera >Sent: Nov 5, 2012 4:03 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] hardy gladiolus ID > >On a related note, I could use some help IDing a hardy gladiolus. These >were cheap Dutch bulbs from a local supermarket, labelled >*nanus*'Sabrina', but don't at all resemble photos of several >dissimilar cultivars >sold as that. They're short, bloom in late summer, and appear fully hardy >here with no snow cover. The background color is somewhat brighter yellow >than my terrible photo shows. > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/58877781@N00/8159112326/in/photostream > >Sean Z >Zone 6a >SE Michigan >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: outdoors --> indoors Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 22:27:18 -0500 Forecast low in the mid 20's (Fahrenheit) tonight so I hauled all my bulb pots indoors.... Hymenocallis, Habranthus, Polianthes, Hippeastrum, etc. Many of them still appeared to be in active growth, even after multiple nights below freezing. I think winter is here. Dennis in Cincinnati From klazina@orcon.net.nz Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5098874D.4090009@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes drummondii Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:43:09 +1300 It has taken some years to have enough of an increase in these bulbs to become a patch of flowers. Then a couple of nights ago I happened to go past them after dark. It was a wind-still evening and the scent from the Z. drummondii was just amazing. And the white of the flowers almost glowed in the dark. It was the first time I had that experience since planting the seed in 2008. And the scent was still there the following morning. Now I see what is meant by them being night flowering. As the flowers are open during day and night for some days, it had not been so noticeable. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From leo@possi.org Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:50:46 -0800 (PST) Jim Shields already told you > Crinum and Hymenocallis galore! Hippeastrum hybrids. I agree. The Hymenocallis might need to stand in water. They do here. The Hippeastrum might need some frost protection. Bulletproof in the ground here in Phoenix: Most Albuca. The more I put out the more it seems the so-called "winter growers" are actually opportunistic or survive fine with summer water. I normally get much less rain that Austin, though not this past summer. A. clanwilliamgloria seedlings exposed to rain all summer in a large container (5 complete drenchings while hot) are sprouting now just fine. Amaryllis belladonna Caladium hybrids - Will need to be lifted each year and stored above 70F, but they tolerate near full-day Arizona summer sun if well watered. Or grow in containers and bring in. Freesia and Ixia hybrids! I planted some from garden center packages years ago in a bed that gets watered plentifully all year. They return and bloom every year, going dormant in the spring. Ismene from a garden center - Grew for years in a large outdoor container, bloomed now for the first time ever. Lycoris radiata - plant lots and lots of them lining walks and beds. Possibly also aurea - not familiar with this species but I have seen a yellow Lycoris flowering in profusion in the garden of an older house. (1940s is old for Phoenix!) Manfreda - One is native there. The others grow fine according to reports. Musa edible varieties (bananas) grow from "bulbs." The dwarfs grow to only 6 feet / 2m and produce fruit here each year if scrupulously protected from frost. Otherwise killed to the ground; they return each year but won't fruit. I grow them against the house, the easier to protect them. I suggest Raja Puri or Dwarf Orinoco. There are also ornamental bananas from cold-winter areas that get much bigger. Narcissus tazzeta (paperwhites) No other Narcissus survive here in the ground, but maybe your lower temperatures and theoretically greater rainfall would help. Try them. Polianthes tuberosa - protect from frost Rhodophiala bifida - plant lots Other suggestions Agapanthus Boophone disticha - Friends here have summer-growing individuals planted out in dappled light. I have winter-growing individuals and I bring them in for the summer. Daylilies - I've seen them there. Won't grow here. Dichelostemma pulchellum, native here. Garlic. Plant fall, harvest spring. Sweet potatoes (Ipomoea batatas) are probably perennial there - they are here. Watch for javelina. Bearded Iris; aquatic Iris if you have a water feature or can keep them wet. Zantedeschia aethiopica Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Mystery bulb reveals itself Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:59:57 -0800 (PST) Some time ago I asked for ID suggestions for an amaryllidaceous plant with longer, brighter green leaves than A. belladonna, and a definite neck to the foliage. It has been growing in a large container for years and never flowered. It emerges in early fall when night temperatures begin falling, grows through the winter, and goes leafless with hot weather. It has been unaffected by mild frost. I was sure it was not A. b. because I would never plant that in a container. It just revealed itself to be an Ismene. Nice scented white flowers. I do recall buying some Ismene bulbs over 10 years ago but thought I put them all in the ground. Seems I planted some in this container. The ones in the bed struggle to survive and have never flowered. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <056ffa59f897c616da360f6907f188be.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: hardy gladiolus ID Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 20:02:54 -0800 (PST) The Michigan hardy glad shown by Sean Z reminds me a lot of G. dalenii. Is that plant in the ancestry of such hybrids? Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From klazina@orcon.net.nz Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50988E26.5080904@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 17:12:22 +1300 Max Various Narcissus grow very happily here in Auckland. I plant mine in shady places. They don't need sun here. And they come up year after year, multiplying. And this is zone 10. Ixias and Freesias tend to become like weeds here. Hippeastrums do fine here in the open garden, as long as it is afairly dry area. Well drained. Ina On 6/11/2012 4:50 p.m., Leo A. Martin wrote: > Narcissus tazzeta (paperwhites) No other Narcissus survive here in the > ground, but maybe your lower temperatures and theoretically greater > rainfall would help. Try them. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From bruceandjill.schroder@gmail.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 23:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bruce Schroder Subject: Growing Daubenya from seed Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:19:34 +1100 Has anyone had any experience growing this genus from seed? I sowed seeds approximately 7 weeks ago (late winter here in Melbourne, Australia) and have had no joy so far. Suggestions? From ldiane.whitehead@gmail.com Mon, 05 Nov 2012 23:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <089E0688-9CEA-4D3B-A6BC-27CB57B9FA24@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Growing Daubenya from seed Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 22:47:12 -0800 Bruce, you've jolted my memory. I germinated some in 2007, and have no idea what then happened to them. I'll have to check. However, I do have a record of their germination. I sowed them on February 5 (late winter), kept them in the living room which has a comfortable temperature of about 20 C, and they began germinating on March 26. This means that radicles emerged (I sowed them in small ziplock bags). It does not mean that cotyledons would be visible if I had sown them in a pot. So that was about 7 weeks just for the radicles. Maybe yours are stirring below ground. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada On 2012-11-05, at 10:19 PM, Bruce Schroder wrote: > Has anyone had any experience growing this genus from seed? I sowed seeds > approximately 7 weeks ago (late winter here in Melbourne, Australia) and > have had no joy so far. Suggestions? > _______________________________________________ From bgjulian@internode.on.net Mon, 05 Nov 2012 23:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <5098B34D.6000708@internode.on.net> From: B & G Julian Subject: Daubenya germination Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 17:50:53 +1100 Silverhill Seeds recommend Autumn sowing for this Genus,Gordon Julian,Tasmania From maxwithers@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: A review of 'The Genus Lachenalia' Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 23:16:13 -0800 Serendipity that John reproduced the illustration of L. orchioides v. orchioides in his review. It was so drastically different from the plants I grow (from Silverhill seed) that I immediately repaired to the internet in a panic. Luckily, the wiki came to the rescue once again, showing an incredible diversity of flower that I suspect would be difficult to detect in herbarium specimens. Compare mine to the illustration in John's review: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badthings/5513623393/ The relevant wiki page is: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LachenaliaSpeciesFive On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 11:03 AM, John Grimshaw wrote: > I've written a review of The Genus Lachenalia', by Graham Duncan, on my > blog, if anyone is interested. > > http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/the-genus-lachenalia. > html > > It's a great book. > > John Grimshaw > > > Visit John Grimshaw's Garden Diary > http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/ > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > 1 Kirkhill Farm > Settrington > Malton > North Yorkshire > YO17 8NT > > Tel. 01944 768494 > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <0e0b2f$1tnmtp@icp-osb-irony-out7.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Growing Daubenya from seed Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:17:26 +1100 At 05:19 PM 6/11/2012, you wrote: >Has anyone had any experience growing this genus from seed? I sowed seeds >approximately 7 weeks ago (late winter here in Melbourne, Australia) and >have had no joy so far. Suggestions? Bruce, I think with the majority of bulbs 7 weeks is a bit enthusiastic to be worrying. Usually I think these should be sown in autumn, with declining temperatures then winter. I wouldn't be surprised if there was no sign of germination until next winter, in fact if they were only sown in august I would be surprised if they germinated for me this year (but that is in Canberra, so may be different for you). I've had some experience with Daubenya, but not a lot. I've had some germination but I have found them very slow to grow. Massonia on the other hand have done well for me, growing quite quickly comparatively. They too tend to sit until the following year if they're sown too into the cool weather. I hope this may be of some help. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Min winter temp -8 or -9°C. Max summer temp 40°C. Thankfully, maybe once or twice a year only. Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Terrestrial Orchids, Irises, Liliums, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From maxwithers@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 23:19:57 -0800 Thanks everyone for your very inspiring suggestions. I'm looking forward to the new conditions almost as much as I am mourning the imminent loss of my cloud forest. I will surely have more questions once I acquire a yard. On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Ina wrote: > Max > > Various Narcissus grow very happily here in Auckland. I plant mine in > shady places. They don't need sun here. And they come up year after > year, multiplying. And this is zone 10. > > Ixias and Freesias tend to become like weeds here. > > Hippeastrums do fine here in the open garden, as long as it is afairly > dry area. Well drained. > > Ina > On 6/11/2012 4:50 p.m., Leo A. Martin wrote: > > Narcissus tazzeta (paperwhites) No other Narcissus survive here in the > > ground, but maybe your lower temperatures and theoretically greater > > rainfall would help. Try them. > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From hanshuizing@home.nl Tue, 06 Nov 2012 01:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5098CBF0.2040204@home.nl> From: Hans Huizing Subject: Growing Daubenya from seed Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:36:00 +0100 Hi Bruce, I grow Daubenya and other Massonia-like plants from seed nearly every year. The seeds are sown from the end of August to end of September. The results are very good every year. September is the start of Autumn here in the Northern Hemisphere. I keep my greenhouse during winter at a minimum temperature of about 6 - 8º Celsius. And the adult plants flower every year. Daubenya marginata is flowering just now. Kind regards, Hans Huizing Holland *H. J. Huizing* Wapendrager 38 7943 RP Meppel Holland // Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 hanshuizing@home.nl www.dehuizings.nl Get a signature like this. Click here. Op 6-11-2012 7:19, Bruce Schroder schreef: > Has anyone had any experience growing this genus from seed? I sowed seeds > approximately 7 weeks ago (late winter here in Melbourne, Australia) and > have had no joy so far. Suggestions? > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From hanshuizing@home.nl Tue, 06 Nov 2012 04:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <5098F5F4.10609@home.nl> From: Hans Huizing Subject: polyxena ensifolia Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:35:16 +0100 Hi plant lovers, Since my greenhouse only has limited sizes, I prefer plants that stay rather small. Two years ago I ordered seeds of Polyxena ensifolia from SilverHill Seeds. Here is a picture of the first result. *Polyxena ensifolia* two year old seedling, flowering for the first time. Kind regards, Hans Huizing > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hanshuizing/8160775168/in/photostream/ *H. J. Huizing* Wapendrager 38 7943 RP Meppel Holland // Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 hanshuizing@home.nl www.dehuizings.nl Get a signature like this. Click here. From arnold140@verizon.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 06:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <23172649.1758442.1352208486927.JavaMail.root@vms170027> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: 'The Genus Lachenalia' Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 07:28:06 -0600 (CST) I have to thank John for his post on Graham Duncan's 'LACHENALIA' I've started a book selling project and have a supply of Graham's book along with other bulb related titles. Anyone interested in the list contact me privately at glo.bulbs.books@verizon.net Arnold New Jersey From oldtulips@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 06:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <8873D560-04B1-46D7-B785-1FB679B055D5@gmail.com> From: Rimmer de Vries Subject: polyxena ensifolia Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 08:54:51 -0500 Hi Hans I noticed your compost is a rather dry peat and perlite mix . Can you elaborate on your mix Thanks Rimmer On Nov 6, 2012, at 6:35 AM, Hans Huizing wrote: > Hi plant lovers, > > Since my greenhouse only has limited sizes, I prefer plants that stay > rather small. > > Two years ago I ordered seeds of Polyxena ensifolia from SilverHill Seeds. > Here is a picture of the first result. > > *Polyxena ensifolia* two year old seedling, flowering for the first time. > > > Kind regards, > > Hans Huizing > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hanshuizing/8160775168/in/photostream/ > > > *H. J. Huizing* > > Wapendrager 38 > > 7943 RP Meppel > > Holland // > Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 > hanshuizing@home.nl > > www.dehuizings.nl > > Get a signature like this. > > Click here. > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dkramb@badbear.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 07:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: polyxena ensifolia Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:29:30 -0500 what a tiny, adorable little flower!!! does it have any scent? Dennis in Cincinnati On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Hans Huizing wrote: > Hi plant lovers, > > Since my greenhouse only has limited sizes, I prefer plants that stay > rather small. > > Two years ago I ordered seeds of Polyxena ensifolia from SilverHill Seeds. > Here is a picture of the first result. > > *Polyxena ensifolia* two year old seedling, flowering for the first time. > > > Kind regards, > > Hans Huizing > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hanshuizing/8160775168/in/photostream/ > > > *H. J. Huizing* > > Wapendrager 38 > > 7943 RP Meppel > > Holland // > Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 > hanshuizing@home.nl > > www.dehuizings.nl > > Get a signature like this. > < > http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=18&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_18 > > > Click here. > < > http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=18&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_18 > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 07:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <410-220121126144116242@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Growing Daubenya from seed Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:41:16 -0500 > Subject: [pbs] Growing Daubenya from seed > > Has anyone had any experience growing this genus from seed? We grow 5 or 6 species here in Northeast North Carolina USA. We sow them in late summer, early fall, and they germinate sporadically when diurnal temps vary approximately 20F, that is , when daytime temps are about 75F dropping to 55F at night. Most germinate the first season but we do have germination in season 2 and rarely season 3. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USDA 8a From zera@umich.edu Tue, 06 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Sean Zera Subject: hardy gladiolus ID Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:25:50 -0500 It does look like it might be straight *dalenii*, doesn't it? It certainly would explain the hardiness. I guess I always assumed it was a fancy hybrid given the source, and somehow I'd managed to never notice a photo of typical *dalenii*, only forms and hybrids with no red in them. The nanus hybrid 'Atom' survived only one winter under the same conditions. The former mystery glads haven't been touched since 2005, though they have stopped flowering, probably because I haven't weeded them in years. Sean Z Zone 6a SE Michigan From jdbourq@yahoo.co.uk Tue, 06 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1352217593.58356.YahooMailNeo@web111710.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: "J. Denys Bourque" Subject: Holding bulbs over winter Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 07:59:53 -0800 (PST) Dear Fellow Horticulturists, Every year around this time, local stores let go what they have left of their fall bulbs [tulips, etc.] at really cut prices. I have been thinking of buying some, but the ground here is just about frozen. Can anyone advise if the bulbs can be stored for planting  next fall? Thankful for advice on this.   J. Denys Bourque Saint-Jacques, NB   CANADA US Zone 3 /Canada Zone 3A From michaelcmace@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <005001cdbc38$9f8eaa90$deabffb0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Growing Daubenya from seed Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 08:06:03 -0800 Bruce wrote: >> Has anyone had any experience growing this genus from seed Which Daubenya species are you growing? There's some diversity in the climates they come from. Paul Cumbleton of Wisley has published some notes on germinating their seeds at the bottom of the page here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/wisley/2007/221107/log.html Mike San Jose, CA From sipos.barna@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4DF57152-BA0B-406E-A4B9-D014E506D5BF@gmail.com> From: Barna Sipos Subject: Growing Daubenya from seed Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 16:32:51 +0000 Hi Bruce, Daubenya aurea was quite easy for me. Nearly 100% of the seeds germinated after few month when the temperature dropped to about 10C and below. Soil I used: approximately 1 part coarse sand, 1 part perlite, 1 part peat. Pot: 15 cm (enough for 100 seeds) No tray under the pot for the best draining. Soaked the seeds in cold water for 24 hours. I sow them 12mm below the surface. During the cold season I kept the soil constantly damp, watered about once a week. (high humidity, 10C) Regards Barna Sipos Hungary On 6 Nov 2012, at 06:19, Bruce Schroder wrote: > Has anyone had any experience growing this genus from seed? I sowed seeds > approximately 7 weeks ago (late winter here in Melbourne, Australia) and > have had no joy so far. Suggestions? > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jane@sonic.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <50994440.8080503@sonic.net> From: Jane Merryman Subject: The Bulb Garden Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:09:20 -0800 I'm putting together the winter issue of The Bulb Garden and need two more articles. We have one article on where to find bulbs in the wild and a long one on bulb-growing climates around the world, but I could use two more short or medium-sized articles to complete the issue. Let me know if you would like to make a contribution. The fall issue is waiting for the new membership directory, which is being put together. Jane Merryman editor, The Bulb Garden jane@sonic.net -- Read my blog at www.janemerryman.com From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 10:17:13 -0800 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:18:16 -0800 On Nov 4, 2012, at 9:01 PM, Max Withers wrote: > I will shortly move to Austin TX from Oakland CA, and am trying to imagine > gardening in an alternate universe. I'm glad the rainfall chart helped you, Max. I made the opposite move from the one you're going to make when I went off to the San Francisco Bay Area for grad school. I remember that I felt like I was cold all the time, especially in the summer--even though I had moved from a Zone 8b area to a Zone 10a area. The Zone 10a winter low temperatures opened up all kinds of possibilities that just weren't possible in Austin. But what surprised me more were all the additional possibilities I never knew about due to the "natural air conditioning" that the Bay Area has all summer. So leaving your cloud forest behind will be hard I think. Early spring and late fall in Austin TX are very similar to spring and fall in California. Winter is also very similar--except when an Arctic cold front comes through. Those were always the factor, and the only factor, that prevented me from growing a whole host of things that grow well in places like California and Florida (like citrus, but I discovered rare species and cultivars that allowed me to dabble in that kind of plant life). However, those kinds of freezes have become much much less common than when I grew up in Texas. I've heard that a lot more things are possible to grow now in Texas. Not to be rude to Ina, but her comment about her climate in New Zealand being similar to what Max will find in Austin made me laugh out loud. I had a professor at school in the Bay Area who was from New Zealand, and he told me how when he first moved to the S.F. Bay Area, he felt like he was always dying from the heat during the summer! New Zealand's climate is even more unique (I hope Jim McKenney doesn't shoot me for writing "more unique") than the Bay Area's is. I think that's why NZ'ers somehow are able to grow almost anything except for maybe the truly tropical stuff. Mauro Peixoto of Brazil told me how a plant friend of his from Texas who visited one year complained about how unfair Mauro's climate was, too, compared to Texas's. Anyway, as others have pointed out, the very best book for Austin conditions is Scott Ogden's book since he has personally grown almost everything he describes, either in Austin, or in a nearby town with the same climate as Austin's. And he seems to have found virtually every species and cultivar of geophyte in existence that will grow there, a lot of which no one else there knows about, and will make you tear your hair out about where he got all of them. To this day, there are some things he lists that I have not been able to find available for sale or trade anywhere, although I encounter literature that describes that they really did exist. (And apparently still do in Scott's gardens…) As Alberto Castillo said, Thad Howard's book is good also, but he lists a lot of things that grow in Zones 8-11, but not the southern hot, humid versions of those Zones. A lot of them do much better in the Southern Hemisphere or mediterranean versions of those Zones. Finally, if you haven't experienced an extended length of time living in a Texas summer, be prepared. Especially coming from Oakland. By September each year, you may seriously consider moving back. The remaining 8 months of the year, though, are very nice. Yes, and most of what Tony Avent and Yucca Do sell will grow in Austin as well. Have fun and good luck! --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 10:17:13 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Holding bulbs over winter Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 18:21:57 +0100 Most bulbs will die if planted to late or are in a so bad shape that they don't flower the first years Narcissus don't make roots if the temperature from the ground drops below +7ºC same for Lilium candidum Tulips and Hyacints can be planted late after planting cover well and they will root in a week and are hardy then Roland 2012/11/6 J. Denys Bourque : > Dear Fellow Horticulturists, > Every year around this time, local stores let go what they have left of their fall bulbs [tulips, etc.] at really cut prices. I have been thinking of buying some, but the ground here is just about frozen. Can anyone advise if the bulbs can be stored for planting next fall? > > > Thankful for advice on this. > > > > J. Denys Bourque > Saint-Jacques, NB CANADA > US Zone 3 /Canada Zone 3A > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From totototo@telus.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 10:17:13 -0800 Message-Id: <5098D7A7.19806.3F5AB06@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Holding bulbs over winter Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:25:59 -0800 On 6 Nov 2012, at 7:59, J. Denys Bourque wrote: > Every year around this time, local stores let go what they have left of > their fall bulbs [tulips, etc.] at really cut prices. I have been thinking of > buying some, but the ground here is just about frozen. Can anyone advise if > the bulbs can be stored for planting  next fall? Some might make it. using their stored energy reserves to form a new, much smaller bulb, but the general rule is "no". That said, tulips may survive, if stored dry in the house, until the soil thaws in spring (when is that in New Brunswick?), giving you tulips in flower in early summer. You might try putting a tarp down with a foot-thick layer of leaves on it, and waiting for the soil underneath to un-freeze in a week or so, then plant your el cheapo bulbs in that spot. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From btankers@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 10:17:13 -0800 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Zephyranthes drummondii Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:40:50 -0600 Brings back good memories. This was one of the few native bulbs on the ranch I grew up on in southwestern Texas. Interesting how your comment about fragrance brought memories of the scent back. On the ranch they bloomed after a rain but in a wetter climate there may be other triggers for flowering. I don't think it would be hardy here but I may have to give it a try. Boyce Tankersley Northern suburbs of Chicago, Illinois On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM, Ina wrote: > It has taken some years to have enough of an increase in these bulbs to > become a patch of flowers. Then a couple of nights ago I happened to go > past them after dark. It was a wind-still evening and the scent from > the Z. drummondii was just amazing. And the white of the flowers almost > glowed in the dark. > > It was the first time I had that experience since planting the seed in > 2008. And the scent was still there the following morning. Now I see > what is meant by them being night flowering. As the flowers are open > during day and night for some days, it had not been so noticeable. > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 10:17:13 -0800 Message-Id: <1352224728.24307.YahooMailNeo@web84520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Holding bulbs over winter Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:58:48 -0800 (PST) We've had this discussion before, and I'll make the same suggestion I did last time.  Here's the short version: put each bulb into a small zip lock bag with moist medium. Store the bags in the refrigerator (not the freezer) or heap them in a pile outside on UNFROZEN ground under a heap of leaves. In my experience, the unfrozen ground part is important at the beginning - but it matters not if the ground freezes later.   The point in putting each bulb in its own bag is to avoid the tangled mass of roots which will result if multiple bulbs are bagged together. Do what you can to encourage some root growth before exposing the bulbs to below freezing conditions.  As soon as conditions moderate in late winter or early spring, remove the bulbs from the bags and plant the bulbs into the ground. You will probably find this to be the hardest part of the whole process (I do).  For the refrigerator plan to work well, the temperature in the refrigerator should ideally be lower than is usual for household refrigerators. Temperatures right down to (but not much lower than) freezing will usually work.  Also, keep the stored bulbs away from ethylene sources(typically fruits). Years ago I stored a variety of garden tulips in a cold frame. Each bulb went into a zip lock bag dry (without a moist medium); The bulbs were planted into the soil in late March. As I recall, only about 25% bloomed normally, but nearly all survived and produced normal leafy growth.  Jim McKenney From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 10:17:13 -0800 Message-Id: <1352225197.17247.YahooMailNeo@web84517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Zephyranthes drummondii Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:06:37 -0800 (PST) It brings back memories for me, too. Forty-five years ago I was a medic in the Army stationed at Ft. Hood, Texas. I lived in an old, meat-wagon style ambulance while covering training exercises out, far out, in the field. On several occasions I had the totally enchanting experience of seeing the fields and scrub around the base camp burst into bloom as thousands of rain lilies emerged after rain storms. The big white flowers were briefly everywhere. For someone who grew up on the East Coast, it was wonderful and amazing beyond words. Jim McKenney  From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Holding bulbs over winter Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 18:19:28 +0000 The bulbs will be ok, unless they have been damaged in the store, for example by dessication. They will require a period of cool, moist conditions frost free , during which to root. Probably two weeks minimum. after that they will be hardy as Roland suggests. Allium, Narcissus, Muscari, Tulips, Fritillaria (if the bulbs are not dried out)..... should all be ok. If they are kept warm they will rot, If they are frozen without roots they will also rot. Storing until Spring will deny the bulbs even more of their growing season, and is likely to damage them even more by dessication or growing without roots, similar to an onion or leek which is kept too long before cooking. Very few of the bulbs will withstand storage until "next fall" Peter (UK) On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:59 PM, J. Denys Bourque wrote: > Dear Fellow Horticulturists, > Every year around this time, local stores let go what they have left of > their fall bulbs [tulips, etc.] at really cut prices. I have been thinking > of buying some, but the ground here is just about frozen. Can anyone advise > if the bulbs can be stored for planting next fall? > > From vc2m@mac.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <854AC9F7-7A15-4FB3-8B69-6267C1281879@mac.com> From: Vijay Chandhok Subject: Holding bulbs over winter Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:29:22 -0500 Buy some top soil or defrost some, then put the bulbs on surface and make a mound on top of the bulbs, I did that and it worked. Can not let a bulb sale go by. Vijay On Nov 6, 2012, at 12:25 PM, Rodger Whitlock wrote: > On 6 Nov 2012, at 7:59, J. Denys Bourque wrote: > >> Every year around this time, local stores let go what they have left of >> their fall bulbs [tulips, etc.] at really cut prices. I have been thinking of >> buying some, but the ground here is just about frozen. Can anyone advise if >> the bulbs can be stored for planting next fall? > > Some might make it. using their stored energy reserves to form a new, much > smaller bulb, but the general rule is "no". That said, tulips may survive, if > stored dry in the house, until the soil thaws in spring (when is that in New > Brunswick?), giving you tulips in flower in early summer. > > You might try putting a tarp down with a foot-thick layer of leaves on it, and > waiting for the soil underneath to un-freeze in a week or so, then plant your > el cheapo bulbs in that spot. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From sevanetz@telus.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <4ADCA28EA0104355970CE3B83013DB7D@MiniSue> From: Subject: lilium phillipense Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:50:30 -0800 I accidentally shovelled into some this lovely lily which i've had growing outside for 5 years now. It's not supposed to be hardy, I understand , but it was quite deep from the garden's annual topdressing. Here on the wetcoast of B.C.and by the ocean, soil washes away quite a bit. What mix should I use to grow on these scales? Temperature? I'm considering this accident an opportunity! One more thing, I do appreciate my daily fix of PBS information, but especially when the contributors indicate where they're from, zone , etc. Cheers and thanks Sue Evanetz Sushine Coast,B.C. Z8 or so From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: lilium phillipense Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 20:18:02 +0100 Sue Did it ever set seed ?? do you have a picture ?? Roland 2012/11/6 : > I accidentally shovelled into some this lovely lily which i've had growing outside for 5 years now. It's not supposed to be hardy, I understand , but it was quite deep from the garden's annual topdressing. Here on the wetcoast of B.C.and by the ocean, soil washes away quite a bit. What mix should I use to grow on these scales? Temperature? I'm considering this accident an opportunity! One more thing, I do appreciate my daily fix of PBS information, but especially when the contributors indicate where they're from, zone , etc. Cheers and thanks > > > Sue Evanetz > Sushine Coast,B.C. > Z8 or so > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Holding bulbs over winter Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:18:41 -0800 > >> On 6 Nov 2012, at 7:59, J. Denys Bourque wrote: >> >>> Every year around this time, local stores let go what they have >>> left of >>> their fall bulbs [tulips, etc.] at really cut prices. My closest garden centre pots up its unsold bulbs and sells them in bloom in spring. I always buy a lot for around my front door. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From jane@sonic.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <509965EB.5000106@sonic.net> From: Jane Merryman Subject: Source for Apricot Sensation amayllis Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 11:32:59 -0800 Kay Hanser writes: I am trying to find an apricot colored amaryllis to send to a friend for Christmas. Can you give me a source for the \"Apricot Sensation\"? thank you for any assistance. Sincerely, Kay Hanser Please reply to bkhanser@gmail.com -- Read my blog at www.janemerryman.com From totototo@telus.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <5098F62C.21845.2636@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Tulip gambles Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:36:12 -0800 Walmart offered an interesting gamble this fall: big bags of mixed tulips for very little money. I indulged in two bags of mixed species and one each of lily- flowered and fringed varieties, which I've potted up in the hopes of being able to place them out of reach of deer when they're in flower. There's a chance that the descriptive terms "species", "lily-flowered", and "fringed" will be accurate, but it won't surprise me in the least if all the bulbs in each bag turn out to be the same - the varieties that the growers had too many of this year. I'm also trying, and not for the first time, the beautiful blue-eyed white tulip, "Tulipa pulchella alba oculata-caerulea", in the hopes of figuring out how to keep the bulbs from dwindling away as they have in the past. Fortunately, it turns out that one of the gals at a local garden center evidently knows a thing or two about keeping it going so it will form flowering size bulbs even though potted. Her advice is to use a sandy, somewhat alkaline soil and to feed halfway through the flowering period, then again two weeks later. Stay tuned next year for reports on success or failure. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From hanshuizing@home.nl Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <509967F1.8010506@home.nl> From: Hans Huizing Subject: polyxena ensifolia Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:41:37 +0100 Hi Rimmer, My mix: 2 parts of Pumice. (1-4 mm) 2 parts course sand. (the sand the builders use for bricklaying). 2 parts of stone chippings (1-4 mm) 1 part of a good quality cocopeat. For the more sensitive species (for example Cyrtanthus smithii) I skip the cocopeat. Kind regards Hans Huizing Holland Op 6-11-2012 14:54, Rimmer de Vries schreef: > Hi Hans > I noticed your compost is a rather dry peat and perlite mix . Can you elaborate on your mix > Thanks > > Rimmer > > On Nov 6, 2012, at 6:35 AM, Hans Huizing wrote: > >> Hi plant lovers, >> >> Since my greenhouse only has limited sizes, I prefer plants that stay >> rather small. >> >> Two years ago I ordered seeds of Polyxena ensifolia from SilverHill Seeds. >> Here is a picture of the first result. >> >> *Polyxena ensifolia* two year old seedling, flowering for the first time. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Hans Huizing >> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hanshuizing/8160775168/in/photostream/ >> >> *H. J. Huizing* >> >> Wapendrager 38 >> >> 7943 RP Meppel >> >> Holland // >> Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 >> hanshuizing@home.nl >> >> www.dehuizings.nl >> >> Get a signature like this. >> >> Click here. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > *H. J. Huizing* Wapendrager 38 7943 RP Meppel Holland // Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 hanshuizing@home.nl www.dehuizings.nl Get a signature like this. Click here. From hanshuizing@home.nl Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <509968B6.3090602@home.nl> From: Hans Huizing Subject: polyxena ensifolia Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:44:54 +0100 Hi Dennis, It has a vague sense of spicy jasmine. Hans Huizing Holland Op 6-11-2012 15:29, Dennis Kramb schreef: > what a tiny, adorable little flower!!! does it have any scent? > > Dennis in Cincinnati > > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Hans Huizing wrote: > >> Hi plant lovers, >> >> Since my greenhouse only has limited sizes, I prefer plants that stay >> rather small. >> >> Two years ago I ordered seeds of Polyxena ensifolia from SilverHill Seeds. >> Here is a picture of the first result. >> >> *Polyxena ensifolia* two year old seedling, flowering for the first time. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Hans Huizing >> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hanshuizing/8160775168/in/photostream/ >> >> *H. J. Huizing* >> >> Wapendrager 38 >> >> 7943 RP Meppel >> >> Holland // >> Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 >> hanshuizing@home.nl >> >> www.dehuizings.nl >> >> Get a signature like this. >> < >> http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=18&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_18 >> Click here. >> < >> http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=18&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_18 >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > *H. J. Huizing* Wapendrager 38 7943 RP Meppel Holland // Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 hanshuizing@home.nl www.dehuizings.nl Get a signature like this. Click here. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1352232324.46682.YahooMailNeo@web84509.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: OT Funky problem; was Re: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:05:24 -0800 (PST) Lee Poulsen wrote: "New Zealand's climate is even more unique (I hope Jim McKenney doesn't shoot me for writing "more unique") " Lee, believe me, I've been on the receiving end of such sniping all of my life. The role of grammar police does not appeal to me at all. I'm not interested in correcting other people's usage; what does interest me are the reasons people give for what they do. Sometimes I learn from those reasons.  Every day now when I read the morning newspaper I see so many mistakes that if I wanted to write letters to the editor about them it would take most of the day. It sometimes seems as if most of the editors have retired. Our language is in the throes of huge changes. I'm more interested in keeping up; keeping  the current crop of young writers on the straight and narrow strikes me as a waste of time - they are building their own road to their own destination according to their own plans.   Here's something vaguely related to the above and to our usual topics: the Washington Post recently ran an article about a fossil reptile; the article had been gleaned from a news service, and the Post reprinted it without editing it. The article claimed that the fossil reptile had been named for a male-female couple who had worked as volunteers with the scientists who eventually named the beast. They gave it the specific name funkei based on the family name Funke.  Does anyone else see the problem?  Jim McKenney From klazina@orcon.net.nz Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <5099704D.2000303@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: bulb gambles Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 09:17:17 +1300 Like the "Red" flowered Hippeastrum which I bought, with the picture showing a Red Lion flower, yet the flower is a red double. As Ihave been trying to get one of the doublered ones for years now (NZimport costs are so high for them, they don't get brought into the countryanymore) I am absolutely delighted so it is not always a problem when bulbs don't turn out whatI expected. Of course I don't know which one it is. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 7/11/2012 8:36 a.m., Rodger Whitlock wrote: > There's a chance that the descriptive terms "species", "lily-flowered", and > "fringed" will be accurate, From zigur@hotmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: OT Funky problem; was Re: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:24:26 -0800 funkiorum? T From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1352233585.70507.YahooMailClassic@web161003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Zephyranthes drummondii Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:26:25 -0800 (PST) Zephyranthes drummondii should be fully hardy if you get the right forms from south-central Kansas. These tolerate temperatures to -20F. Sadly, I do not grow it from there. I never found it when I looked out of season while looking for other things.  I do have an Arkansas form that has small, less than 3 cm flowers, but it is fragrant and seems fertile.  Aaron  E Tennessee --- On Wed, 11/7/12, Boyce Tankersley wrote: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Re: [pbs] re Zephyranthes drummondii To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Wednesday, November 7, 2012, 1:40 AM I don't think it would be hardy here but I may have to give it a try. Boyce Tankersley Northern suburbs of Chicago, Illinois From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1352234369.34526.YahooMailNeo@web84502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: OT Funky problem; was Re: Bulbs for hot summers Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:39:29 -0800 (PST) That's it, Tim.  I hope they don't break up over this!  Jim McKenney From leo@possi.org Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Growing Daubenya from seed Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:39:46 -0800 (PST) I and others here in metro Phoenix plant them in late fall/early winter. We have dry air, lots of sunshine, daytime temperatures always above freezing, and occasional nights below freezing, down to -8C. The frost has never affected Daubenya here. I keep all my bulb seed but Gladiolus extremely wet - containers standing in water - until they sprout. I don't have access to my records right now but I seem to recall that was in about 4-6 weeks. I then kept them always moist but not standing in water. They grow steadily. We bulb nuts here consider them easy to grow. But them we have a desert winter climate and don't need to grow in a greenhouse. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Tulip gambles Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 20:45:23 +0000 Rodger, Add to that advice that it is the only tulip I know (and grow) which aborts its flowers very quickly if the bulbs get hot, or if they get a little too dry while in leaf/ bud/ flower! (I bought my bulbs about ten years ago). I have literally dozens of Tulip accessions. Peter (UK) On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Rodger Whitlock wrote: > > I'm also trying, and not for the first time, the beautiful blue-eyed white > tulip, "Tulipa pulchella alba oculata-caerulea", in the hopes of figuring > out > how to keep the bulbs from dwindling away as they have in the past. > Fortunately, it turns out that one of the gals at a local garden center > evidently knows a thing or two about keeping it going so it will form > flowering > size bulbs even though potted. Her advice is to use a sandy, somewhat > alkaline > soil and to feed halfway through the flowering period, then again two weeks > later. > > Stay tuned next year for reports on success or failure. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: polyxena ensifolia Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 21:04:55 +0000 In Britain the builders often use fine sand for brick laying. It is sometimes called 'soft sand'. It allows for a very thin cement layer between bricks, and makes a very smooth and pliable cement. Here 'coarse sand' is also called 'washed sand' or 'concrete sand'. For horticultural use it is very important that these two products are not confused! Peter (UK) On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Hans Huizing wrote: > Hi Rimmer, > > My mix: > > 2 parts of Pumice. (1-4 mm) > 2 parts course sand. (the sand the builders use for bricklaying). > 2 parts of stone chippings (1-4 mm) > 1 part of a good quality cocopeat. > > For the more sensitive species (for example Cyrtanthus smithii) I skip > the cocopeat. > > > From mirrog@yahoo.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <0912229024B04F91BFA384474256C56C@emirrojr> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: lilium phillipense Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:32:34 -0800 In my climate, the warm-climate lilies like formosanum, philippinense and wallichianum bloom very late, do not ripen their seed, and disappear after a couple of years. But they are fine in the unheated greenhouse. From sevanetz@telus.net Tue, 06 Nov 2012 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4A0DFD29B36440E283B5C4CD135365AD@MiniSue> From: Subject: lilium phillipense Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:56:10 -0800 It has never set seed , unfortunately I have no photo. It is a very late bloomer,and just finished in early october. It is very like the wiki photo but grows 4' tall. I acquired it from an auction at UBC Botanical Garden about 7years ago and kept in a pot for a year. where it bloomed in my cool greenhouse and was very scented. sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bulborum Botanicum" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] lilium phillipense Sue Did it ever set seed ?? do you have a picture ?? Roland 2012/11/6 : > I accidentally shovelled into some this lovely lily which i've had growing > outside for 5 years now. It's not supposed to be hardy, I understand , but > it was quite deep from the garden's annual topdressing. Here on the > wetcoast of B.C.and by the ocean, soil washes away quite a bit. What mix > should I use to grow on these scales? Temperature? I'm considering this > accident an opportunity! One more thing, I do appreciate my daily fix of > PBS information, but especially when the contributors indicate where > they're from, zone , etc. Cheers and thanks > > > Sue Evanetz > Sushine Coast,B.C. > Z8 or so > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: lilium phillipense Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 23:36:25 +0100 Mine didn't make seed that's why I asked maybe in the poly-tunnel next year Roland 2012/11/6 Gene Mirro : > In my climate, the warm-climate lilies like formosanum, philippinense and wallichianum bloom very late, do not ripen their seed, and disappear after a couple of years. But they are fine in the unheated greenhouse. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <005001cdbc72$0c2d9560$2488c020$@ab.ca> From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Holding bulbs over winter Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 15:57:03 -0700 You are already frozen? I thought it was bad here in central Alberta. We had a warm spell the last couple of days and I got my Eremurus in the ground yesterday. I've stored tulip bulbs in pots in our unheated garage over the winter but they didn't fair well, in the ground is best. Linda Zone 3 / Red Deer, AB Canada From vc2m@mac.com Tue, 06 Nov 2012 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <0229C7A1-442D-4434-83B4-D5787D5EAF48@mac.com> From: Vijay Chandhok Subject: lilium phillipense Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:09:12 -0500 I have L.philipense seeds from south India. Vijay On Nov 6, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > Mine didn't make seed > that's why I asked > maybe in the poly-tunnel next year > > Roland > > 2012/11/6 Gene Mirro : >> In my climate, the warm-climate lilies like formosanum, philippinense and wallichianum bloom very late, do not ripen their seed, and disappear after a couple of years. But they are fine in the unheated greenhouse. >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From totototo@telus.net Wed, 07 Nov 2012 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <509A6F79.10120.453FC48@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 14:26:01 -0800 The ones I bought have turned out to be Crocus speciosus, a mixture of white and blue flowered forms. Beware! -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 07 Nov 2012 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 23:37:51 +0100 The bulbs are so easy to recognise they look a little like C. sativus if you see them you know already that they are wrong labelled Roland 2012/11/7 Rodger Whitlock : > The ones I bought have turned out to be Crocus speciosus, a mixture of white > and blue flowered forms. > > Beware! > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu, 08 Nov 2012 00:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1411480892.45619.1352359947771.JavaMail.www@wwinf1j33> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 08:32:27 +0100 (CET) A couple of years ago I bought C. speciosus albus and a fairly large proportion were blue. Right now I have a C. sativus in flower that I don't remember planting. I remember only ever getting C. cartwrightianus albus. Mark > Message du 07/11/12 23:26 > De : "Rodger Whitlock" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall > > The ones I bought have turned out to be Crocus speciosus, a mixture of white > and blue flowered forms. > > Beware! > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 01:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:51:16 +0100 That's why I grow my own C. cartwrightianus albus to be sure they are the right ones terrible if you have a white garden and all different colours show up Roland 2012/11/8 Mark BROWN : > A couple of years ago I bought C. speciosus albus and a fairly large proportion were blue. > > Right now I have a C. sativus in flower that I don't remember planting. I remember only ever getting C. cartwrightianus albus. > > Mark > > > > > > >> Message du 07/11/12 23:26 >> De : "Rodger Whitlock" >> A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Copie à : >> Objet : [pbs] Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall >> >> The ones I bought have turned out to be Crocus speciosus, a mixture of white >> and blue flowered forms. >> >> Beware! >> >> >> -- >> Rodger Whitlock >> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >> Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu, 08 Nov 2012 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1233292429.23476.1352393497491.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m14> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 17:51:37 +0100 (CET) Roland, you are quite right to do so! I don't mind the odd one but wen I am paying for the more unusual at higher prices it should come good! I am not much into color mixes OK. But some sativus amongst cartwrightianus seems hard to do as the bulbs are so much bigger. And they are only in two colors. Not MUCH damage done!LOL Mark > Message du 08/11/12 09:51 > De : "Bulborum Botanicum" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Objet : Re: [pbs] Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall > > That's why I grow my own C. cartwrightianus albus > to be sure they are the right ones > terrible if you have a white garden > and all different colours show up > > Roland > From ksayce@willapabay.org Thu, 08 Nov 2012 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: what's flowering this week Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:27:32 -0800 There's not much in flower now in my yard, but it is not yet in a bloom-free condition. In the cold frame: Polyxenia longituba, tiny but always wonderful to see as the garden goes dormant In the garden: Ipheion 'Charlotte Bishop', which opened the first flowers in late October, and will flower all winter. Probably more accurately named Tristagma 'Charlotte Bishop' these days. Numerous unnamed crocus, lavender, long since separated from their tags. Crocus speciosus, which keeps putting up flowers to be pounded flat in storms. Ian Young's cold greenhouse and pots are looking better as a way to actually enjoy crocus flowers! Cheers, Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From contact@bulbargence.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:17:11 -0800 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 19:35:07 +0100 Hello all, Just for the record, I thought that C cartwrightianus albus is now called C. hadriatus. (flowering at the moment here) Am I correct? Greetings Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com South of France -----Original Message----- That's why I grow my own C. cartwrightianus albus to be sure they are the right ones From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:17:11 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 19:41:07 +0100 In the plantlist they are two different species both with an accepted name Roland 2012/11/8 contact : > Hello all, > Just for the record, I thought that C cartwrightianus albus is now called > C. hadriatus. (flowering at the moment here) > Am I correct? > Greetings > Lauw de Jager > http://www.bulbargence.com > South of France > > -----Original Message----- > That's why I grow my own C. cartwrightianus albus > to be sure they are the right ones > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:17:11 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 10:52:37 -0800 Hi, I just wanted to share a few photos from the Flickr page of the National Botanical Garden of Chile. On the right side, you can click on thumbnails that takes you to other photos. An amazing plant, indeed! http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbn/8162847576/ By the way, Leontochir is now a Bomarea based on molecular studies. Nhu From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:17:11 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: what's flowering this week Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 20:05:51 +0100 It would be so good if members post pictures for example your Polyxenia longituba do you have enough light to grow a small plant ?? Roland 2012/11/8 Kathleen Sayce : > There's not much in flower now in my yard, but it is not yet in a bloom-free condition. > > In the cold frame: > Polyxenia longituba, tiny but always wonderful to see as the garden goes dormant -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 20:07:30 +0000 Incredible that they have it trained up a cage when it is actually a trailing plant. From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 21:56:49 +0100 You where right Lauw From Brian Mathew: C. cartwightianus albus is, in fact, C. hadriaticus it seems there are white C. cartwightianus but always with a small purple throat like the white C. longiflorus I found have a few small linesin the throat Roland 2012/11/8 Bulborum Botanicum : > In the plantlist they are two different species > both with an accepted name > > Roland > > 2012/11/8 contact : >> Hello all, >> Just for the record, I thought that C cartwrightianus albus is now called >> C. hadriatus. (flowering at the moment here) >> Am I correct? >> Greetings >> Lauw de Jager >> http://www.bulbargence.com >> South of France >> >> -----Original Message----- >> That's why I grow my own C. cartwrightianus albus >> to be sure they are the right ones >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From ds429@comcast.net Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <000001cdbdf8$8b091620$a11b4260$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 328 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:32:23 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 328" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Nhu Nguyen: Codes: W = winter growing, Sp = spring/summer growing, S = summer growing, WC = wild collected, OP = open pollinated, CP = control pollinated SEEDS: 1. Lilium parvum - Sp WC, Nevada Co., CA about 5000ft (1500m), stratification recommended. 2. Lilium sp. (washingtonianum?) - Sp WC, Nevada Co., CA about 3500ft (~1000). I found this only in seed so no guarantee of the actual species, but based on location and elevation, it could very well be L. washingtonianum. Stratification recommended although probably not necessary. 3. Calochortus luteus NNBH2503 - W WC, Calaveras Co., about 650ft (200m). From a friend's property. This form is supposed to have a nice and dark marking in the center. 4. Bomarea acutifolia - OP this species comes from Mexico and Central America. It likes to be slightly warmer than other species of Bomarea but grows fine in the Bay Area. This species can grow year-round in moderate winter areas, although much slower in winter and more vigorous in spring and summer. It is said that the seeds cannot dry out completely so I packed them into barely moist peat for distribution. NOT RECOMMENDED for Hawai`i, New Zealand, Australia and other areas prone to invasive plants. These produce beautiful red seeds that are easily dispersed by birds, thus can spread. 5. Allium dichlamydeum - W OP 6. Allium hyalinum pink - W OP 7. Allium sanbornii - W OP 8. Dichelostemma multiflorum - W OP 9. Lachenalia aloides v. aurea - W OP 10. Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus - W CP 11. Ornithogalum fimbrimarginatum form (Steve? Hammer) - W CP 12. Gladiolus alatus - W CP 13. Nerine bowdenii - W OP BULBLETS: 14. Hippeastrum striatum - S seed grown, very vigorously offset forms mixed together so there is a good chance that you will get a multiple clones from several bulblets. 15. Allium unifolium - W always a nice and reliable onion that blooms midspring and multiplies slowly but steadily. 16. Allium amplectens - W From Kathleen Sayce: SEEDS 17. Diplarrhena moraea, parent is white flowered, selfed (no other Diplarrhenas for males) 18. Romulea autumnalis 19. Acis autumnalis, syn. Leucojum autumnale From Kipp McMichael: 20. Seeds of Haemanthus coccineus, ex Arid Lands, Outshoorn 21. Bulblets of Dichelostemma capitatum, from San Francisco serpentine 22. Seed of Ornithogalum fimbrimarginatum Thank you, Nhu, Kathleen, and Kipp !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From marygastil@yahoo.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1352411074.5936.YahooMailNeo@web163101.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: Air Filled Porosity, Water retention, and bulk density of potting media Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 13:44:34 -0800 (PST) The thread on ingredients for potting mixes elicited some expert advice from successful bulb growers from a variety of climates and cultural practice and a variety of species grown.  I learned the mix should be adjusted for watering frequency, air dryness and temperature, and preference of particular kinds of bulbs' roots. Not having much experience but wanting to contribute, I figured I'm capable of filling little plastic deli dishes with stuff from bags and weighing these.  After some false starts at what appeared more simple a technique than it actually is*, and after detailed advice and careful scrutiny from PBS members, I posted the data on the Growing Medium wiki page.  Thank you to David Pilling, Mike Mace, and Mary Sue Ittner for your help. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/GrowingMedium Larger particles resulted in less water retained and more air space, as expected. The most surprising result for me was the opposite properties of coconut coir fiber versus its fines. I buy it in a compressed block of mixed fibers and fines. After fluffing it up, I sifted it while it was air-dry, through a 1/4 inch hardware cloth mesh. The long fibers do not pass through; the fines pass through.  The coir fiber is one of the most fluffy growing media.  The coir fines are the least fluffy. The coir fiber is one of the least soggy; the coir fines are the most soggy. This may explain some of the widely varying results PBS members have reported. Sorting media by Air Filled Porosity, from least fluffy to most fluffy: coir fines sand, horticultural compost fines kitty litter, Jonny Cat sand, silica, coarse #12 pumice, unsifted vermiculite, fine granite chick grit gravel, between 1/2 to 1/4 inch peat perlite < 1/4 inch perlite unsifted, some fines excluded perlite > 1/4 inch lava rock, crushed to pebbles coir fiber bark, seedling size sphagnum moss Sorting media by Water Retention, from most soggy to least soggy: compost fines vermiculite, fine coir fines perlite unsifted, fines included Supersoil peat kitty litter, Jonny Cat pumice, unsifted sand, horticultural sand, silica, coarse #12 perlite < 1/4 inch perlite, unsifted, some fines excluded coir fiber perlite > 1/4 inch sphagnum moss lava rock, crushed to pebbles bark, seedling size granite chick grit *More detail on measurement method is available. Most important are the container shape and drainage tilt angle. For media which change volume with wetness and during draining, the final volume after draining was used. All the above media were measured identically except the Supersoil and the perlite with fines included, which are Mike's data. gravel, between 1/2 to 1/4 inch From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 22:25:58 +0000 Do you grow any of these Alberto? Peter (UK) On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > Incredible that they have it trained up a cage when it is actually a > trailing plant. > > From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 22:51:03 +0000 Unfortunately no longer, Peter, but that region of Chile is hot, frost free, and very sunny. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 16:39:27 -0800 Alberto Castillo wrote about the Bomarea in the CHilean botanic garden: >Incredible that they have it trained up a cage when it is actually a >trailing plant. They probably keep it in a cage so visitors won't pick the flowers! One site of it in the Llanos de Challe national park has signs "No cortar la flora," and because it's near a road, the rangers keep a close eye on it. It is an iconic plant in CHile. When I saw Leontochir ovallei being grown at the botanic garden in Valparaiso, it was in a cactus house to which I got access only after finding a curator to unlock the door. He told me that the cacti had to be protected that way or people would steal whole plants for their gardens. This is not, of course, a problem unique to Chilean botanic gardens. I've seen whole collections in alpine houses sequestered behind metal screen to keep the public's greedy hands away. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 01:07:16 +0000 The fabulous red and pink hybrid Delphiniums behind thick bars at Wisley From plicht@berkeley.edu Thu, 08 Nov 2012 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <509C7625.8000905@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 19:19:01 -0800 For the record, we have one at the UC Botanical Garden (a 2008 accession) that bloomed in March 2010 which we hope to propagate. I found it a bit underwhelming because I'm accustomed to the much more striking Bomarea. Paul Paul Licht, Director Univ. California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu From richrd@nas.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 23:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Richard Subject: fall planting and storage Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 22:33:43 -0800 Always learning every year with these pnw native bulbs. We're replanting our previously harvested stored Allium, Dichelostemma, Fritillaria and such pnw native bulbs. We began digging in late August and stored these bulbs (except Fritillaria) at ambient temperatures. Biggest event was by error putting some large collections into moist peat. They immediately began to sprout roots. Dry peat or just in trays alone seems to be best method. Coming out of the field in August/September these bulbs are seriously dehydrated. They rehydrate quite easily by washing and allowing to dry naturally indoors. Storage temps have been running 55 to 60 F but covered bulbs seems to be susceptible to mold. As well as any showing cuts made during harvest. Next time, I will take extra effort to hold down relative humidity in storage bins. Fritillaria storage seems best without peat in cooler and are still happy after 10 weeks. My two Erythronium species seem happier dry or in dry peat at ambient temps. Cool moist brought out the roots. No chemical tre atment yet. Camas receives the same dry bulb handling. Care should be taken to get these bulbs out of the sun during harvesting. They sunburn making entry room for rot. Water, rainfall in the field before harvest results in bulbs seriously root sprouted. This likely results in loss of energy at least if they are dried out. Is necessary then to separate bulbs that prefer dry late summer conditions from others that continue to grow into the fall, (my mistake). In process of revising my planting plans. The lilies mostly show green foliage into the early fall and appreciate late summer irrigation. The bulbs we harvested from the field and the seedling bulbs from flats are currently in moist peat and cool storage. about 36 deg F. Some minor root growth is showing but I am planning to hold these bulbs into the late winter/early spring before planting. I do not know yet if 36 F is low temp enough but I am holding in my strat cooler and cannot take lower. Will be interesting experience but I am inspired by more northern lily growers. My lily seed stratification and flat grow-out worked so well in now a standard for me. Fall planting for me results in partial germination and plants in second year..... ( my species are L. columbianum, pardalinum, washingtonianum ). I hope to add a few more northern species lilies soon as well as collect diversity of strains from full range of species to assemble the range in genetic diversity. I would also plan to work on improving the holding conditions for the dry storage species but this season's results are a big improvement. Here we are today planting Dichelostemma congestum back into the field for another season of growth. We've pulled off the bulbils and placed into separate plantings. Do not think this collection ever needs to be seed propagated again by us. http://flic.kr/p/drPQhV closer view http://flic.kr/p/drPR1t Amy standing on our seed drill http://flic.kr/p/drPQuK and..... Mt Baker, our local volcano, in early evening light as I drove home tonight. http://flic.kr/p/drQ1E7 Rich Haard Bellingham, Washington From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 23:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 06:37:23 +0000 I must work harder at understanding the central and south american climates, -they seem very complicated in that they bridge both Pacific and Atlantic climates. It would be good to see some of the plants you do grow Alberto, or have grown. When I searched your gardens on the internet I could find very little... is there a website?? Did you manage to germinate the Solaria seeds which I sent you? I obtained a very good crop myself. Peter (UK) On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > > > Unfortunately no longer, Peter, but that region of Chile is hot, frost > free, and very sunny. > > From gardenbetter@gmail.com Thu, 08 Nov 2012 23:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Shmuel Silinsky Subject: Tulip gambles Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 02:07:56 -0500 Hi Rodger, Good luck with them. Where are you? Does T. pulchella need much cold in the wiinter? Thanks, Shmuel Jerusalem Israel zone 9b From gardenbetter@gmail.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 01:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Shmuel Silinsky Subject: Geissorhiza radians Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 04:11:26 -0500 I got 10 bulbs of Geissorhiza radians ranging from 1/8 to 1/4 inch diameter.I plan to use a sandy low organic soil mix, what I call my 'Baja Mix', which has been successful for Chilean Atacama bulbs. Any suggestions as to pot size and spacing are greatly appreciated. All the best, Shmuel Jerusalem Israel zone 9b From contact@bulbargence.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 14:28:48 +0100 Hello Rolland, Here is some aditional i formation from Jane Macgary written January 2001: Further in the catalog (hoog& Dix), the plant grown in gardens as C. cartwrightianus 'Albus' is referred to C. hadriaticus. Since C. hadriaticus is a hardy, rapidly increasing, floriferous species, and also self-sows as much as any crocus I know, perhaps "C. cashmirianus 'Albus'" is just a selection of C. hadriaticus. The distinguishing feature between cartwrightianus and hadriaticus is that the style branches of C. hadriaticus are "less than half as long as the perianth segments and arise at a point well above the throat" (Mathew), whereas in C. cartwrightianus the style branches divide down in the throat. Greetings Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com -----Original Message----- From Brian Mathew: C. cartwightianus albus is, in fact, C. hadriaticus it seems there are white C. cartwightianus but always with a small purple throat like the white C. longiflorus I found have a few small linesin the throat From bulborum@gmail.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Crocus "cartwrightianus albus" bought this fall Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:45:28 +0100 Thanks Lauw I chance the name on the labels now the trick to find the real one Roland 2012/11/9 contact : > Hello Rolland, > Here is some aditional i formation from Jane Macgary written January > 2001: > Further in the catalog (hoog& Dix), the plant grown in gardens as C. > cartwrightianus > 'Albus' is referred to C. hadriaticus. Since C. hadriaticus is a hardy, > rapidly increasing, floriferous species, and also self-sows as much as any > crocus I know, perhaps "C. cashmirianus 'Albus'" is just a selection of C. > hadriaticus. The distinguishing feature between cartwrightianus and > hadriaticus is that the style branches of C. hadriaticus are "less than > half as long as the perianth segments and arise at a point well above the > throat" (Mathew), whereas in C. cartwrightianus the style branches divide > down in the throat. > Greetings > > Lauw de Jager > http://www.bulbargence.com > > -----Original Message----- > >From Brian Mathew: C. cartwightianus albus is, in fact, C. hadriaticus > it seems there are white C. cartwightianus but always with a small purple > throat like the white C. longiflorus I found have a few small linesin the > throat > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From ds429@comcast.net Fri, 09 Nov 2012 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <000001cdbe85$3457ceb0$9d076c10$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 328 CLOSED Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 09:19:16 -0500 Very quick response!! Enjoy, Dell From msittner@mcn.org Fri, 09 Nov 2012 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <20121109145043.69537E8C6D@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 06:50:43 -0800 The message below was held since it was too big as it included all of the previous digest. For Nhu, Peter, Alberto, and All, I've been growing B. ovallei for about 8 years at San Francisico State University. My largest plant is close to the size of the one in your picture and produces from 5 to 10 umbels each year. They emit a strong, pleasant, honey-like smell and are of very tough substance -I suppose to stand up to rodent or bird pollination? I've found that this plant is completely self fertile, producing large amounts of seed, but as yet I get very poor germination: 2 out of 60 last year. Would appreciate any hints on this and have tried GA3 soak and cool/moist stratification without reward. When I see the first shoots come up with cool fall temperatures, I begin watering and once the leaves expand a bit, heavy feeding. I also raise the plants up to be closer to our HPS lights. I will be posting pictures on our Friends of the SFSU Greenhouse blog soon: fotgh.org Martin Grantham From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 07:31:33 -0800 ChileFlora says it is relatively easy to cultivate but doesn't give any germination suggestions. http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/HighResPages/EH1215.htm Diane Whitehead From mirrog@yahoo.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <3D3A52B64B134EB4947407A53C6E5608@emirrojr> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: fall planting and storage Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 08:18:51 -0800 Richard, why do you lift the bulbs? Why not just leave them in the ground (not irrigated) over the summer? From plicht@berkeley.edu Fri, 09 Nov 2012 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <509D34F1.4010304@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 08:53:05 -0800 I just spoke with the gardener who is caring for ours and I would say it is very far from easy to cultivate. It has very stringent water requirements and is easily killed. It can evidently remain dormant for 2 yrs or more. Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 11/9/2012 7:31 AM, Diane Whitehead wrote: > ChileFlora says it is relatively easy to cultivate but doesn't give > any germination suggestions. > > http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/HighResPages/EH1215.htm > > > > Diane Whitehead > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 09 Nov 2012 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 09:36:31 -0800 Paul Licht wrote: >For the record, we have one [Leontochir] which bloomed at the UC >Botanical Garden (a 2008 >accession) that bloomed in March 2010 which we hope to propagate. I >found it a bit underwhelming because I'm accustomed to the much more >striking Bomarea. Paul, please wait a few years. A mature Leontochir (or, if you prefer the new view, Bomarea ovallei) is one of the most spectacular flowering plants I have seen. The individual crimson florets are almost 5 cm across, and the inflorescence is very large and of heavy substance. The massive, leafy stems can be more than a meter long. The usual habitat of this plant is in very rocky, steeply sloping terrain. I have seen it growing in large talus falls and also in crevices on canyon sides. The root system is presumably much like that of many Alstroemeria species and adapted to mobile situations where the flowering stems can emerge here and there. Although the climate is arid, probably there is moisture down where the roots are: I saw an Adiantum (maidenhair fern) species growing in the same crevices with this plant. If I could grow it here, which is unlikely given the winter temperatures, I would plant it deep and not let the soil under it get absolutely dry in summer. Note that the rock in its native habitat actually provides moisture even in years entirely without precipitation, because the frequent fogs condense on the rocks and the moisture can seep down through the interstices. Much of the vegetation along the Atacama coast survives only because it has adapted in one way or another to getting moisture from fog. In fact, in the book cited below, they recommend misting the foliage frequently. They also say some organic matter in the soil is necessary; I suppose in nature this would arise from dead foliage sifting down through the rocks. As for propagation, here (in translation) is what Riedemann et al., Flora nativa de valor ornamental: Zona Norte, has to say: "It is propagated by seed sown in stratified conditions[i.e., exposed to diurnal temperature variation] in the nursery, in a mix of one part compost [i.e., organic material] and two parts sand. When germination begins, the seed [i.e., seed coat] emerges from the soil, but you should not cover or remove it, however you should protect it from birds. It is best to keep it in the nursery in a pot where it does not have to be transplanted." I don't know if this is helpful other than the suggestion about temperature variation, which in the case of these authors (living in Valparaiso) would be entirely similar to what occurs in Berkeley. In growing Alstroemeria species from seed, however, I have always found that storing the seed dry at room temperature until fall produces better results than immediate planting or storing the seed under refrigeration. As for growing it in a pot, I think they mean in its younger years; it would surely do best given an unrestricted root run after that. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From guylep@hotmail.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: guy stephane andre l'eplattenier Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 18:54:57 +0100 I ordered seeds of leontochir a few weeks ago and they have germinated , at least 50%, easily.... I live along the spanish coast ( zone 9, I think) and we just had goof fall rains ( finally). Maybe , it helped... Guy -----Message d'origine----- From: Diane Whitehead Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 4:31 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei ChileFlora says it is relatively easy to cultivate but doesn't give any germination suggestions. http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/HighResPages/EH1215.htm Diane Whitehead _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From othonna@gmail.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Bomarea (Leontochir) ovallei Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 10:02:27 -0800 The rootstock of Leontochir is similar to that of Alstroemeria but the rhizome connecting the grape-like storage roots is short and very fragile. These structures find their way to the bottom of pots I have used, mostly 6" or 1gal. These are really too small but it has bloomed previously. Now they are going to 2gal pots and I anticipate better results. I keep the pots dry and shaded in summer. In the past I've used about 60% #20 silica sand, 30-35% pumice and the remainder some organic base. The sand has breathing hazard issues so I try to stay away from it, but it is great for certain challenging species. In habitat L. ovallei does not merely inhabit dry coastal hills but is concentrated in rocky seasonal stream beds where the deeper roots almost certainly stay moist in summer dormancy. At the least they remain cool. The leafy stems are generally prostrate but some may range up through low shrubs. Its rarity in nature may be overrated since it can be locally plentiful and is found in more than one locale. It is not so easy to transplant and the habitat appears to not be under threat from mining, etc. California also has many very attractive geophytes that are equally deserving of protection but without an identifiable threat they are not endangered. Dylan Hannon From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <008d01cdbeb3$c2159470$4640bd50$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Geissorhiza radians Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 11:52:31 -0800 Shmuel wrote: >> I got 10 bulbs of Geissorhiza radians ranging from 1/8 to 1/4 inch diameter....Any suggestions as to pot size and spacing are greatly appreciated. The bulbs are tiny but the plants they make are surprisingly large. I'd put about six corms per 20-cm pot, although you might be able to get away with up to eight. I've found them to be easy to grow, but in my conditions the corms tend to dwindle over time. Maybe yours will be happier, but until you know for sure, don't forget to re-seed them from time to time. The climate they're native to is similar to Antalya, Turkey or southwestern Greece. Similar temps to where you are, but a little bit more summer moisture. Good luck! Mike San Jose, CA From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <008e01cdbeb4$8f47f1e0$add7d5a0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: fall planting and storage Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 11:58:15 -0800 Thanks for the information and photos, Rich. They're extremely interesting. I haven't seen a commercial bulb operation before, so please forgive me for the naïve questions, but I was surprised by the density at which you're planting those Dichelostemma. With all the offsetting they do, don't you need to keep more space between them? (I'm thinking maybe I space mine too far apart in the pots). Also, do you do anything to try to plant the bulbs right side up, or can they sort that out for themselves? Thanks, Mike San Jose, CA From richrd@nas.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <02A44180-9154-4B60-873E-63E503F9B6EC@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: fall planting and storage Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 12:17:49 -0800 This year moving field to new location, also harvest for sales - if we wait until orders come in October then they are sprouting roots. Also to harvest bulbils and multiply. I'm trying to learn how to hold them in good condition in order to extend sales period. Made progress this year and some good ideas for next time. On Nov 9, 2012, at 8:18 AM, Gene Mirro wrote: > Richard, why do you lift the bulbs? Why not just leave them in the ground (not irrigated) over the summer? From richrd@nas.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <2D26A0A3-266A-47C9-AABF-DD97346B5B96@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: fall planting and storage Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 12:25:56 -0800 I'm the naive one here, am still on learning curve as I ramp up production. However these bulbs will be lifted for sale next year. They do seem to be happy in crowded beds. I past we made dense beds of bulbils and left them for 2-3 years. With Camas also dense plantings work great although sometime the bulbs are deformed. Keep in mind these rows are separated by 6 inches of clean space and roots do have a [lace to go. Different conditions in a pot. On Nov 9, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Michael Mace wrote: > but I was surprised by the density at which you're > planting those Dichelostemma. With all the offsetting they do, don't you > need to keep more space between them? (I'm thinking maybe I space mine too > far apart in the pots). From banderson805@gmail.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Ben Anderson Subject: fall planting and storage Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:25:15 -0800 To second Michael's question, I'm also very curious as to whether you plant the bulbs right-side up, or whether they are simply scattered and they right themselves. In my limited experience, it seems that Brodiaea and kin don't mind too much which way they are planted... they still send out roots and shoots and figure themselves out. What about Camas, Fritillaria, and some of these others? Ben Anderson On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Richard wrote: > I'm the naive one here, am still on learning curve as I ramp up > production. However these bulbs will be lifted for sale next year. They do > seem to be happy in crowded beds. I past we made dense beds of bulbils and > left them for 2-3 years. With Camas also dense plantings work great > although sometime the bulbs are deformed. Keep in mind these rows are > separated by 6 inches of clean space and roots do have a [lace to go. > Different conditions in a pot. > On Nov 9, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Michael Mace wrote: > > > but I was surprised by the density at which you're > > planting those Dichelostemma. With all the offsetting they do, don't you > > need to keep more space between them? (I'm thinking maybe I space mine > too > > far apart in the pots). > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From richrd@nas.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Richard Subject: fall planting and storage Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 16:40:10 -0800 With Camas leichtleinii you wind up with a nicer bulb if you break the neck off the young bulbs. Otherwise laid on side sometimes makes a curved bulb in 1-2 years. However no problem. C. quamash bulbs are rounder shape. We're hand placing our larger Fritillaria bulbs and lily. Erythronium is thrown in like Camas and Dichelostemma. Rich H On Nov 9, 2012, at 2:25 PM, Ben Anderson wrote: > , it seems that Brodiaea and kin > don't mind too much which way they are planted... they still send out roots > and shoots and figure themselves out. What about Camas, Fritillaria, and > some of these others? From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: fall planting and storage Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:46:03 -0800 Regarding the question of whether it matters whether one plants Dichelostemma and other Themidaceae (Brodiaea, etc.) right side up, I think it matters if the corms are large, but not if they are little offsets or seedling bulbs. These plants are adapted to coexisting with burrowing and digging predators, such as gophers and bears (and Native American humans, traditionally), so the little offsets would get distributed at random after the large ones are consumed. Not all members of this group make very numerous offsets in my experience, but with some you will find a dozen or more tightly grouped around the large flowering-size corm. Because most of them have tall, bare stems and lax basal leaves, they look best in the garden growing among low shrubs (my choice here) or tall perennials and grasses, especially if you want seed, in which case you have to leave the stems up for a while (some will ripen seed on stems detached from the corm, though). Spacing them just depends on the visual effect you want. CLose groups, which they tolerate well, might look best in a garden with linear, rather abstract design, while widely spaced plants would look more naturalistic. Incidentally all these themids are excellent cut flowers. The peculiar twining member of the group, DIchelostemma volubile, is particularly well suited to modernistic arrangements. We see an increasing selection of themids in mass-market bulb catalogs, where once there was only one cultivar of Triteleia laxa. (The recently introduced Triteleia laxa 'Rudy' is a very pretty one with striking contrast between the pale tepals and deep violet median stripes.) The offerings are frequently misnamed, but all are worth growing. So far I have found almost all of them, even Bloomeria crocea, hardy outdoors in northwestern Oregon down to at least the mid-teens Fahrenheit. Back to the right-side-up question, Fritillaria bulbs should always be planted right side up, except for the tiny "rice grains," which can be sown like seeds. If you grow some of the California ones that start out as long vertical single scales, you will see a little "hook" or barb at the bottom end. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From petersirises@gmail.com Fri, 09 Nov 2012 23:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: fall planting and storage Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:56:14 +0000 The cormlets can be so prolific that sorting them out is not worthwhile just plant and they can get on with it. The most tender in my experiance is Dichelostemma voubile and D capitata with temperature limits of around 5 F when planted deep in sand, a large pot of B crocea was serverly damaged at these temperatures or slightly lower (0F), (wet and out of doors) and I had only one flower stem last year as a result, -the pot was not fully plunged. Peter (UK) On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > Regarding the question of whether it matters whether one plants > Dichelostemma and other Themidaceae (Brodiaea, etc.) right side up, I > think it matters if the corms are large, but not if they are little > > So far I have found almost all of them, even Bloomeria > crocea, hardy outdoors in northwestern Oregon down to at least the > mid-teens Fahrenheit. From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 10 Nov 2012 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <20121110150116.811BAE8BCF@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hardiness of Themidaceae, was fall planting and storage Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 07:01:01 -0800 As for hardiness I'd like to point out that for some of the California/Pacific Northwest natives that you are discussing it probably depends on the source of the original seed since many of them occur in many different habitats and elevations. When Jim and Georgie Robinett and Ron Ratko were collecting this information was available and for purchased bulbs now it is probably not. With people sharing through seed exchanges of their garden plants, who knows. Do seeds collected from plants growing in a different location retain their genetic properties for hardiness? Dichelostemma volubile is mostly a foothill species found at 100-1600 meters so would be hardier than a coastal species, but less hardy than a mountain species, but obviously there would still be quite a range. Dichelostemma capitatum on the other hand in California is found all over the state and in many different forms. Here's a distribution map: http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/get_smasch_county.pl?taxon_id=22848 So it is found in deserts as well as areas that get a lot of rainfall, near the coast and in the mountains in elevations from 0 to 2300 meters. So you could grow the same species and have a very different experience with its hardiness. Our wiki shows A LOT of different forms, but probably mostly low elevation forms: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Dichelostemma Triteleia crocea is found in the Klamath and High Cascade Ranges in a range from 650 to 2200 meters so once again it would be difficult to comment on its hardiness. A number of years ago I saw it in the mountains blooming in summer at very high elevations where it would have been quite cold during the winter (but perhaps during the coldest times there would be the moderating influence of snow.) Mary Sue At 10:56 PM 11/9/2012, you wrote: >The most tender in my experiance is Dichelostemma voubile and D >capitata with temperature limits of around 5 F when planted deep in >sand, a large pot of B crocea was serverly damaged at these >temperatures or slightly lower (0F), (wet and out of doors) and I >had only one flower stem last year as a result, -the pot was not fully plunged. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Hardiness of Themidaceae, was fall planting and storage Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:41:42 -0800 In reply to Peter Taggart's comment on hardiness in the western North American Themidaceae, the hardiest species are probably Triteleia hyacinthina and T. grandiflora, which have the most northern ranges. Some of the others get up to quite high elevations but would be under snow in winter and thus protected from freezing. T. hyacinthina is a large, showy white to pale lavender one that self-spows freely in this area. T. grandiflora (syn. Brodiaea howellii) has been a difficult subject for me, probably because it doesn't get a dry enough winter in this area. Others likely to be more cold-hardy are Brodiaea elegans, a fairly short grower with brilliant violet flowers; Dichelostemma capitatum (which Peter mentioned, but it should do better than he found; see Mary Sue;s comments on hardiness and ranges), an early bloomer of grasslands and rapid increaser; D. congestum. I also grew Triteleia bridgesii, Brodiaea terrestris, Bloomeria crocea, and Triteleia peduncularis in my former garden (they're still there), even though they are not generally regarded as hardy to the temperatures that occur there, where it gets into the single digits Fahrenheit about once every ten years, and to about 12 F every four years. Mary Sue discussed Triteleia crocea. It is very confusing, because there is also Bloomeria crocea, and they are quite different entities. The Triteleia has a higher-elevation, more northerly distribution and is a smaller plant. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA you wrote: >The cormlets can be so prolific that sorting them out is not worthwhile >just plant and they can get on with it. > >The most tender in my experiance is Dichelostemma voubile and D capitata >with temperature limits of around 5 F when planted deep in sand, a large >pot of B crocea was serverly damaged at these temperatures or slightly >lower (0F), (wet and out of doors) and I had only one flower stem last year >as a result, -the pot was not fully plunged. >Peter (UK) From othonna@gmail.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Hardiness of Themidaceae, was fall planting and storage Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:33:26 -0800 Regarding hardiness, some years ago I heard about an experience with seedlings of a woody plant (I don't recall the name) that were accidentally left outdoors over a cold Eastern winter. The surprise was that the survivors were the smallest, weakest looking plants; the largest and most robust members of the group perished. Similarly, clones with the most appealing flowers (for us) are often weak growers and a plant that seems to lack vigor may have the best resistance to certain diseases. Variation in hardiness and other attributes can be expected over the geographic range of a species. Edaphic aspects-- individuals in a deep shaded canyon versus a sunny ridge top within a very small area-- and other results of interactions between the organism and its environment can also be significant for horticulture. As we all know, a 'sport' or variant can occur even in a genetically narrow sample that has been cultivated and reproduced from seed for many years: all of a sudden there is a different flower color or dwarf individual, etc. The more growers cultivating a given species from different latitudes or elevations the better, since any one grower is not likely to have a species from more than one or two origins. If those origins are known and passed along, so much the better. Dylan Hannon From leo@possi.org Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <214b22d3d633d4e34e30160494a1a962.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Massonia pustulata Loriesfontein Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:31:35 -0800 (PST) Quoting a previous message: >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 00:30:14 +0100 >> From: Dietrich M?ller-Doblies >> Two true locality data questions: Who cultivates Massonia >> pustulata from Loriesfontein? >> >> Who has some detail information about its origin. Since >> when is it in cultivation? Who was possibly the collector? >> >> From where around Loriesfontein? >> >> >> A nice week with flowering surprises to all! >> Dietrich I had a hunch and forwarded this to John Lavranos, plant discoverer extraoirdinaire. Here is his response: > I first wanted to confirm things on google earth. It was i > that found this Massonia at the Loeriesfontein locality in > the early 90's. I have also sen it elswhere (near Springok) > but the Loeriesf. form was particularly attractive. I sent > a few bulbs to the USA, perhaps to Arid Lands, under > Hansonian ownership. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From othonna@gmail.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Massonia pustulata Loriesfontein Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:43:08 -0800 This fine species has been cultivated in California since at least the late 1970s, though I never saw a locality associated with it. Currently I have plants from seeds ex Silverhill Seeds originally collected near Stanford, which lies far to the south of Loeriesfontein. The leaves are markedly pustulate and range from dark green to dark red/purple. Dylan On 10 November 2012 12:31, Leo A. Martin wrote: > Quoting a previous message: > > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 00:30:14 +0100 > >> From: Dietrich M?ller-Doblies > >> Two true locality data questions: Who cultivates Massonia > >> pustulata from Loriesfontein? > >> > >> Who has some detail information about its origin. Since > >> when is it in cultivation? Who was possibly the collector? > >> > >> From where around Loriesfontein? > >> > >> > >> A nice week with flowering surprises to all! > >> Dietrich > > I had a hunch and forwarded this to John Lavranos, plant discoverer > extraoirdinaire. Here is his response: > > > I first wanted to confirm things on google earth. It was i > > that found this Massonia at the Loeriesfontein locality in > > the early 90's. I have also sen it elswhere (near Springok) > > but the Loeriesf. form was particularly attractive. I sent > > a few bulbs to the USA, perhaps to Arid Lands, under > > Hansonian ownership. > > Leo Martin > Phoenix Arizona USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From mirrog@yahoo.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <82ECC74756EF40AB8FE9E90B2210658A@emirrojr> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Hardiness of Themidaceae, was fall planting and storage Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:44:22 -0800 I am growing Dichelostemma volubile and ida-maia, and Tritelia bridgesi in SW Washington state at 600 feet altitude, in well-drained sandy loam on raised beds. So far they are perfectly hardy. I mulch with bark chips. From mirrog@yahoo.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Effect of light on germination of Lilium Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:48:02 -0800 I've heard that Lilium seeds exposed to light after sowing will germinate much faster. Does anyone here know about this? I decided to try it with some species. I sowed the seed on 11/4. Two seeds of L. pumilum have already made a root in five days. That's amazing. I don't see any development yet in the delayed hypogeal seeds. From rrherold@gmail.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <509EC258.7090308@gmail.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Massonia pustulata Loriesfontein Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:08:40 -0500 I, too, grow Massonia 'pustulata' Loriesfontein, but question if it is really the true pustulata. Mine, courtesy of Paul Cumbleton, are not yet blooming size but their bulbs and general habit do not resemble the commonly grown M. pustulata from the southern part of the Western Cape. I grow decidedly pustulate forms of M. pygmaea and so-called M. 'jasminiflora' (the latter has distinctly different flowers from other jasminifloras). I am certain that neither is M. pustulata despite the leaf characteristics. Looking for a suggested proper name from Dietrich or others! --Roy >>>> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 00:30:14 +0100 >>>> From: Dietrich M?ller-Doblies >>>> Two true locality data questions: Who cultivates Massonia >>>> pustulata from Loriesfontein? >>>> From ceridwen@internode.on.net Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <7DB76496-C1D1-4595-8474-06DFB3472117@internode.on.net> From: Ceridwen Lloyd Subject: Effect of light on germination of Lilium Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:01:24 +1030 Exposed to light how? Shallowly sown, put in full sunlight, or under gro-lights? (Having received many Lilium species from the PBX I am especially interested) Cheers Ceridwen Sent from my iPhone On 11/11/2012, at 7:18 AM, "Gene Mirro" wrote: > I've heard that Lilium seeds exposed to light after sowing will germinate much faster. Does anyone here know about this? I decided to try it with some species. I sowed the seed on 11/4. Two seeds of L. pumilum have already made a root in five days. That's amazing. I don't see any development yet in the delayed hypogeal seeds. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Tony@plantdelights.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Daubenya flowering Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:36:21 -0500 All: Our seed-grown plants of Daubenya marginata from Silverhill Seed are now flowering in the garden, but they appear to us to be massonias. Any thoughts? Thanks. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <509EE6DF.3010503@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dietrich_M=FCller-Doblies?= Subject: Massonia pustulata Loriesfontein Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 00:44:31 +0100 Dear Leo, Dear Dylan, Dear Roy, What a lot of relevant information! Thank you! Apparently there are at least three different sources of Massonia pustulata 'Loriesfontein': 1° "cultivated in California since at least the late 1970s". How sure are you, Dylan, that this plant without "a locality associated with it" is indeed Massonia pustulata 'Loriesfontein'? 2° John Lavranos "found this Massonia at the Loeriesfontein locality in the early 90's" and sent a few bulbs to the USA, perhaps to Arid Lands, under Hansonian ownership. 3° Hannon cultivates plants grown from seeds from *Silverhill Seeds, *originally collected near Stanford, "which lies far to the south of Loeriesfontein." Which Stanford? The one in the Cape Town grid 3318? 4° Roy cultivates Massonia pustulata 'Loriesfontein' received recently (about 2-3 years ago, as his plants have not yet reached blooming size) from Paul Cumbleton. Can these plants be traced back to one of the sources 1°-3°? Who ever has flowering Massonia pustulata 'Loriesfontein', I am hoping to receive from him a pressed outer floral bract and the info, from which source/nursery/friend he has his plant. Dietrich Prof. emer. Dietrich Müller-Doblies Paulsenstr.47a D-12163 Berlin Germany Tel: 0049 +30 8242452 mobil0049 +163-8242452 Fax: 0049 +30 82718423 d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de ============================================================================ _On 10.11.2012 21:31, Leo A. Martin wrote:_ > Quoting a previous message: > > > Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 00:30:14 +0100 > From: Dietrich Müller-Doblies > Two true locality data questions: Who cultivates Massonia > pustulata from Loriesfontein? > > Who has some detail information about its origin. Since > when is it in cultivation? Who was possibly the collector? > > From where around Loriesfontein? > > > A nice week with flowering surprises to all! > Dietrich > I had a hunch and forwarded this to John Lavranos, plant discoverer > extraordinaire. Here is his response: > >> I first wanted to confirm things on google earth. It was I >> that found this Massonia at the Loeriesfontein locality in >> the early 90's. I have also seen it elsewhere (near Springok) >> but the Loeriesf. form was particularly attractive. I sent >> a few bulbs to the USA, perhaps to Arid Lands, under >> Hansonian ownership. > Leo Martin > Phoenix Arizona USA > =========================================================================== _On 10.11.2012 21:43, Dylan Hannon wrote:_ This fine species has been cultivated in California since at least the late 1970s, though I never saw a locality associated with it. Currently I have plants from seeds ex Silverhill Seeds originally collected near Stanford, which lies far to the south of Loeriesfontein. The leaves are markedly pustulate and range from dark green to dark red/purple. Dylan =========================================================================== _On 10.11.2012 22:08, Roy Herold wrote:_ I, too, grow Massonia 'pustulata' Loriesfontein, but question if it is really the true pustulata. Mine, courtesy of Paul Cumbleton, are not yet blooming size but their bulbs and general habit do not resemble the commonly grown M. pustulata from the southern part of the Western Cape. I grow decidedly pustulate forms of M. pygmaea and so-called M. 'jasminiflora' (the latter has distinctly different flowers from other jasminifloras). I am certain that neither is M. pustulata despite the leaf characteristics. Looking for a suggested proper name from Dietrich or others! --Roy From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Hardiness of Themidaceae, was fall planting and storage Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 00:18:47 +0000 what are your minimum winter temperatures in SW washington? Peter (UK) On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Gene Mirro wrote: > I am growing Dichelostemma volubile and ida-maia, and Tritelia bridgesi in > SW Washington state at 600 feet altitude, in well-drained sandy loam on > raised beds. So far they are perfectly hardy. I mulch with bark chips. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From mirrog@yahoo.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <10B94E2325424F8583013A51F62C9A8C@emirrojr> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Effect of light on germination of Lilium Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:22:01 -0800 I surface-sowed them and put them 6 inches under fluorescents. Deno's book on germination says light doesn't matter. Another lily grower just told me that philadelphicum is the only species that responds well to light during germination. So maybe light isn't important. Any other opinions? From othonna@gmail.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Massonia pustulata Loriesfontein Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:05:01 -0800 I had not assumed that the 1970s M. pustulata was from Loeriesfontein but I did assume that "Stanford" referred to the town between Hermanus and Napier. I am familiar with the grid system you refer to through various SA botany papers-- is it posted on line? Dylan From mirrog@yahoo.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Hardiness of Themidaceae, was fall planting and storage Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:31:56 -0800 "what are your minimum winter temperatures in SW washington? Peter (UK)" I've been at this place since 2007, and I believe the lowest temp was 12F (-11C). We have had five-day cold spells where the temp has hovered around 20F (-7C) for a few days, usually with snow cover. My property gets much colder than most of the heavily populated areas in the Pacific Northwest, because it is at 600 feet and on the north side of a hill. From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Hardiness of Themidaceae, was fall planting and storage Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 02:03:45 +0000 Temperatures where I live in Derbyshire, England, rarely get below 10 F but two years ago there were nightly temperatures of around 0 F, the winter before was around 5 F, in each case for a period of several weeks. These are the temperatures I am stating as the limits of hardyness for these plants, in the forms I grow. Other species such as T laxa, B terrestris, T peduncularis all survived these temperatures. These periods were largely without snow cover. I do not grow the same range of material as Jane and others as they are rarely available. Peter (UK) On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 1:31 AM, Gene Mirro wrote: > "what are your minimum winter temperatures in SW washington? > Peter (UK)" > > I've been at this place since 2007, and I believe the lowest temp was 12F > (-11C). From msittner@mcn.org Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <20121111154425.93E79E8C7B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tony's mystery plant Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 07:44:27 -0800 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs I've added Tony Avent's photo of his plant he thinks could be a Massonia to the wiki mystery bulbs page. Attachments are stripped from messages to our list since they are not allowed. Did we agree to the identification of Lauw's Ornithogalum? If so, can we move it to the Ornithogalum page? Mary Sue From marygastil@yahoo.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1352649321.16695.YahooMailNeo@web163101.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: Whats blooming in the park this week.. is this a Moraea? Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 07:55:21 -0800 (PST) Not much blooming in my yard this week, just a Nerine (likely N. bowdenii). But in a park about a mile from here there is a gorgeous bed of blue flowers which It looks like a Moraea, but which species? I took these photos a week ago. Notice the stripes on the seed pods. Close up: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8156299100/in/set-72157631930593557/ The flower bed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8156266375/in/set-72157631930593557/ This garden has a labeled map but Im guessing this blue iris-family plant was planted after that map was made because nothing on the map in that spot matches. The Alice Keck Park Memorial Garden has a nice collection of geophytes, but not many blooming this week. I saw Narcissus tazetta just beginning and a field of Oxalis purpurea both the white and purple. - Gastil Santa Barbara, California From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <509FD22B.1090008@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:28:27 -0800 I just posted on the blog some pictures of bulbs with curly leaves, and I remember having read somewhere it is an adaptation to a dry environment. Does anyone have anything to say about this? Do the leaves tighten and relax according to sun/heat/drought? the blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. If you are using Firefox, the formatting all goes to pieces. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From msittner@mcn.org Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <20121111164056.65918E8B4C@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Whats blooming in the park this week.. is this a Moraea? Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:40:40 -0800 I vote for Moraea polystachya which blooms for months this time of year and can become practically weedy in a southern California gardens with summer water. It's less successful for me in Northern California as my garden is quite dry in summer and perhaps cooler. But I have some blooming now in one of my raised beds. Mary Sue At 07:55 AM 11/11/2012, you wrote: >But in a park about a mile from here there is a gorgeous bed of blue flowers >It looks like a Moraea, but which species? From cumbleton@yahoo.co.uk Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Paul Cumbleton" Subject: Massonia pustulata Loriesfontein Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:02:37 -0000 The Massonia pustulata from Loriesfontein that I sent to Roy Herold were originally grown from seed originating from Gordon Summerfield (his original sales catalogue number for this seed was 3820). This form has pale yellowy-green leaves which are very attractive and quite different from other forms that have the more usual darker green, purple or mottled leaves. Earlier this year I spoke at a scientific symposium on the Hyacinthaceae at Guild ford University. Also attending were a group from the University of Graz in Austria, including Andreas Brudermann. Andreas presented a poster session detailing some work they have been recently doing on Massonia taxonomy and in particular he spoke about Massonia pustulata. They had noticed that the majority of plants currently grown in cultivation as Massonia pustulata do not match with the first description and iconotype as given by Jacquin; he characterizes the species as having wide perigon-filament tubes, which form a green-blue ring at the entrance. These characteristics are also shown in figures drawn by both GAWLER and ANDREWS back in the 19th century. However, those observations contradict those made more recently by MÜLLER-DOBLIES in 1997 and MANNING in 2002, who described the perigon-tubes of M. pustulata as narrow. The researchers at Graz have been doing phylogenetic studies of Massonia species (not yet published). They have looked at the DNA of 5 examples of Massonia pustulata as commonly grown and compared them to one example they have in their collection which does match the original description by Jacquin. The 5 samples of the forms most commonly grown all came out showing little difference in their DNA. However the one example which matched the original description came out on a different branch of the cladogram resulting from their work, suggesting it is indeed different. Their conclusions were that most of what currently goes under the name of Massonia pustulata in cultivation has little in common with the species as originally described by Jacquin. It may therefore require describing and giving a new name. They have adopted a working name of “Massonia pseudopustulata” for now. The situation will require further investigation before they can draw final conclusions. To me, the whole genus of Massonia still seems rather a mess taxonomically speaking. Hopefully the ongoing DNA work being done not just by Andreas but also elsewhere will ultimately result in a bit more light being thrown on it. Paul Cumbleton Staines, Middlesex, UK From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <003601cdc033$92e727a0$b8b576e0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: is this a Moraea? Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:39:59 -0800 Gastil wrote: >> in a park about a mile from here there is a gorgeous bed of blue Yup, Mary Sue is right, those are definitely Moraea polystachya. Good spotting on the striped seed pods; that's one of their identifying characteristics. They tolerate all-year moisture in my part of California. I don't know if they would grow in a lawn, but they definitely don't mind being damp. If grown that way they will sprout in August and start blooming in early November (or even late October). They'll stay in bloom until late February. I have a pot in bloom here. I grow that one like an Amaryllid, with water all year. There are another couple of pots of it that I let dry out over the summer, and they're not in bloom yet. Mike San Jose, CA From leo@possi.org Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Whats blooming in the park this week.. is this a Moraea? Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:45:49 -0800 (PST) I also agree this is Moraea polystachya. This summer-dormant plant naturalizes in Phoenix area gardens that receive year-round water and blooms all winter. It does not spread to the non-summer-irrigated environment here. Leo Martin From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Daubenya flowering Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:53:43 -0800 On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Tony Avent wrote: > Our seed-grown plants of Daubenya marginata from Silverhill Seed are now > flowering in the garden, but they appear to us to be massonias. Any > thoughts? Thanks.\ > Hi Tony, I made a similar post a while back. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2012-September/f89f4g1e4q951d1crunvj71q42.html I don't think we have solved the mystery of what species the plant really is yet. Nhu From leo@possi.org Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <58a36202df8cccf8407c42f7f78eedc3.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:55:11 -0800 (PST) Diana Chapman wrote > I remember having read somewhere [having curly leaves is] an adaptation > to a dry environment. Does anyone have anything to say about this? > Do the leaves tighten and relax according to sun/heat/drought? Here in arid, sunny Phoenix, many curly-leaved bulbs display their true circinality. Some of these same plants grown by my friends in southern California do not become so curly. What are called Albuca circinalis and A. spiralis always start growing here in August or early September, when temperatures are far too high to put them outside in the sun. As a result the first set of leaves is quite lax. When it cools down enough to put them into full sun, the new leaves display the more characteristic form. Unfortunately A. "spiralis" is hysteranthous, flowering before leafing out, and I can't get seed on the plants because even in the house, the inflorescences wither in the heat. It does offset slowly with age. My one Gethyllis almost does this, but it emerges somewhat later (two weeks ago) so I can usually get it outside before the leaves expand. I wish it would flower every year but it does not. I have tried to self it and also tried its own frozen pollen from the previous year without success. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From antennaria@charter.net Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <38ca01e4.1272d1.13af09f368a.Webtop.47@charter.net> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Daubenya flowering Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:58:16 -0500 (EST) > From: Tony Avent > Subject: [pbs] Daubenya flowering > > Our seed-grown plants of Daubenya marginata from Silverhill Seed are > now flowering in the garden, but they appear to us to >be massonias. > Any thoughts? Thanks. Looks like Massonia echinata to me. Cheers, Mark McDonough USDA Zone 5 Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border From marygastil@yahoo.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1352657597.10543.YahooMailNeo@web163102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: Whats blooming in the park this week.. is this a Moraea? Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:13:17 -0800 (PST) Thank you for the ID. That park is irrigated in summer. I am both happy and sad to hear it is Moraea polystachya.  Happy because I have those from BX seeds which grew well last winter. Sad because I did not irrigate those all summer so they may not come back. It seems strange a corm would want moisture while dormant. Maybe my seedlings will survive since we did get dew and two insignificant sprinklings last summer, and the soil mix they are in is high in sand that retains its water tenaciously. If not, I'll start over with seeds and this time give summer water. Comparing to the picture on page 302 of 'The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs', their M. polystachya differ from the ones in the park slightly, but not enough to not be the same species, just perhaps a different growing condition. It says "Dry Karroid slopes". The watercolor on page 119 of 'The Moraeas of South Africa' shows the striped "conspicuous reddish veins" on the ovary just like in the park.  The map shows this species grows in a variety of locations in South Africa, "widespread in dry areas". Well my back yard is a dry area so I remain hopeful. - Gastil From arnold140@verizon.net Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <12761061.22027.1352659356666.JavaMail.root@vms170015> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:42:36 -0600 (CST) Here's a Gethyllis linearis that emerged a month ago. It leaves are curled and sits in a North American greenhouse. http://www.flickr.com/photos/88332547@N03/8175966649/in/photostream Arnold New Jersey On 11/11/12, Leo A. Martin wrote: Diana Chapman wrote > I remember having read somewhere [having curly leaves is] an adaptation > to a dry environment. Does anyone have anything to say about this? > Do the leaves tighten and relax according to sun/heat/drought? Here in arid, sunny Phoenix, many curly-leaved bulbs display their true circinality. Some of these same plants grown by my friends in southern California do not become so curly. What are called Albuca circinalis and A. spiralis always start growing here in August or early September, when temperatures are far too high to put them outside in the sun. As a result the first set of leaves is quite lax. When it cools down enough to put them into full sun, the new leaves display the more characteristic form. Unfortunately A. "spiralis" is hysteranthous, flowering before leafing out, and I can't get seed on the plants because even in the house, the inflorescences wither in the heat. It does offset slowly with age. My one Gethyllis almost does this, but it emerges somewhat later (two weeks ago) so I can usually get it outside before the leaves expand. I wish it would flower every year but it does not. I have tried to self it and also tried its own frozen pollen from the previous year without success. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From Tony@plantdelights.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Daubenya flowering Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:43:01 -0500 Mark: Thanks for the confirmation...now I'll have to find some real Daubenya seed. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mark McDonough Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:58 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Daubenya flowering > From: Tony Avent > Subject: [pbs] Daubenya flowering > > Our seed-grown plants of Daubenya marginata from Silverhill Seed are > now flowering in the garden, but they appear to us to >be massonias. > Any thoughts? Thanks. Looks like Massonia echinata to me. Cheers, Mark McDonough USDA Zone 5 Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border From arnold140@verizon.net Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5580646.22294.1352659702428.JavaMail.root@vms170015> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:48:22 -0600 (CST) Diana: I tried with Safari 5.1.7 and the page looked the same as on Firefox 16.0.2 Arnold the blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. If you are using Firefox, the formatting all goes to pieces. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs _______________________________________________ p From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <509FF771.6010302@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:07:29 +1300 Works fine in IE Ina On 12/11/2012 7:48 a.m., arnold140@verizon.net wrote: > Diana: > > I tried with Safari 5.1.7 and the page looked the same as on Firefox 16.0.2 > > Arnold > > > the blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. If you are using Firefox, > the formatting all goes to pieces. > > Diana > Telos Rare Bulbs > _______________________________________________ > p > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <509FF9C5.3010705@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:17:25 -0800 It's a problem with Typepad. It looks great until I publish it. They said to use Firefox to post, which I have, no better. It looks OK in IE, but in IE I have problems with the photographs. Time to switch to another host? Diana > Works fine in IE > > Ina > On 12/11/2012 7:48 a.m., arnold140@verizon.net wrote: >> Diana: >> >> I tried with Safari 5.1.7 and the page looked the same as on Firefox 16.0.2 >> >> Arnold >> >> >> the blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. If you are using Firefox, >> the formatting all goes to pieces. >> >> Diana >> Telos Rare Bulbs >> _______________________________________________ >> p >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <509FFAB4.2090508@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:21:24 -0800 Outstanding!!! I want one! Diana > Here's a Gethyllis linearis that emerged a month ago. > > It leaves are curled and sits in a North American greenhouse. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/88332547@N03/8175966649/in/photostream > > Arnold > New Jersey > > From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:32:21 -0800 Hi Diana, Another nice post! Jacob and I both love these curly leaves, and I know this young friend of yours, who happen to be our friend as well. :) The Albuca spiralis on your page is what I would call Albuca namaquensis. Albuca spiralis has glandular hairs on the leaves, whereas A. namaquensis does not. If you want to move to a new site, try Google Blog. I have used it and it's very good and highly recommend it for you. You should have no problem with formatting with Google Blog. Happy planting! Nhu On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Diana Chapman wrote: > I just posted on the blog some pictures of bulbs with curly leaves, and > I remember having read somewhere it is an adaptation to a dry > environment. Does anyone have anything to say about this? Do the > leaves tighten and relax according to sun/heat/drought? > > the blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. If you are using Firefox, > the formatting all goes to pieces. > > Diana > Telos Rare Bulbs > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <005c01cdc049$3e0d0a40$ba271ec0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Moraea polystachya Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:15:05 -0800 Gastil wrote: >> I did not irrigate those all summer so they may not come back. Whoops, sorry, I miscommunicated. My point was that they tolerate summer water, not that they require it all summer. Your baby bulbs are probably fine. They'll just start growing later and (if they are blooming size) bloom for a shorter time. I have a friend who never watered his until late October. They grew fine but rarely bloomed. I keep most of mine dry from the time they go dormant until the start of August. Then I start watering them. That gets them blooming in October/November. Mike From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:49:07 -0800 Nhu et al., Here is a paper by Mueller-Doblies that addresses the issue of "curly-whirly" morphology. He emphasizes water conservation but I agree with others who have suggested it has also to do with temperature moderation. A flat linear leaf would likely have a greater heat load than a coiled or twisted surface. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0367253010001015 Dylan On 11 November 2012 11:32, Nhu Nguyen wrote: > Hi Diana, > > Another nice post! Jacob and I both love these curly leaves, and I know > this young friend of yours, who happen to be our friend as well. :) > > The Albuca spiralis on your page is what I would call Albuca namaquensis. > Albuca spiralis has glandular hairs on the leaves, whereas A. namaquensis > does not. > > If you want to move to a new site, try Google Blog. I have used it and it's > very good and highly recommend it for you. You should have no problem with > formatting with Google Blog. > > Happy planting! > Nhu > > > On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Diana Chapman >wrote: > > > I just posted on the blog some pictures of bulbs with curly leaves, and > > I remember having read somewhere it is an adaptation to a dry > > environment. Does anyone have anything to say about this? Do the > > leaves tighten and relax according to sun/heat/drought? > > > > the blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. If you are using Firefox, > > the formatting all goes to pieces. > > > > Diana > > Telos Rare Bulbs > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@comcast.net Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <636396927.41964.1352667759339.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:02:39 +0000 (UTC) I think I remember a discussion on some bulb forum about twisted leaves. It was hypothesised that the spiral configuration of the leaves serves to mitigate the extreme sun exposure where these plants live. Cyrtanthus spiralis, which I can keep alive but cannot bloom, is an example of this. Dell, in autumnal SE Pennsylvania, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Chapman" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:28:27 AM Subject: [pbs] Bulbs with curly leaves I just posted on the blog some pictures of bulbs with curly leaves, and I remember having read somewhere it is an adaptation to a dry environment.  Does anyone have anything to say about this?  Do the leaves tighten and relax according to sun/heat/drought? the blog is:  www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com.  If you are using Firefox, the formatting all goes to pieces. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Tony's mystery plant Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 22:05:49 +0100 For me it is Ornithogalum magnum Roland 2012/11/11 Mary Sue Ittner : > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs > > I've added Tony Avent's photo of his plant he thinks could be a > Massonia to the wiki mystery bulbs page. Attachments are stripped > from messages to our list since they are not allowed. > > Did we agree to the identification of Lauw's Ornithogalum? If so, can > we move it to the Ornithogalum page? > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From carlobal@netzero.com Sun, 11 Nov 2012 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Carlo A. Balistrieri" Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:24:54 -0500 Thanks for the reference, Dylan! (but geez-oh-pete I hate these journal publishers and their exorbitant fees....I won't be reading it very soon.) On Nov 11, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Hannon wrote: > Nhu et al., > > Here is a paper by Mueller-Doblies that addresses the issue of > "curly-whirly" morphology. He emphasizes water conservation but I > agree > with others who have suggested it has also to do with temperature > moderation. A flat linear leaf would likely have a greater heat load > than a > coiled or twisted surface. > > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0367253010001015 > > Dylan 2 6 2 . 4 9 0 . 6 1 6 3 New York NJ Philadelphia From d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50A0257D.10100@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dietrich_M=FCller-Doblies?= Subject: Massonia pustulata Loriesfontein Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 23:23:57 +0100 Hi Dylan, thank you for this additional info. Thus, Massonia pustulata 'Loriesfontein' is most likely John Lavranos' collection from the early 90's . How many plants from Stanford do you cultivate? Do you think, that they might be the same as Massonia pustulata 'Loriesfontein'? Is their flowering over for this year? Or could you send me in a letter one outer bract of different plants even from subfruiting or fruiting inflorescences. Simply press them for some days in an old telephone book or other book of cheap absorbent paper. Dietrich Am 11.11.2012 02:05, schrieb Hannon: > I had not assumed that the 1970s M. pustulata was from Loeriesfontein but I > did assume that "Stanford" referred to the town between Hermanus and > Napier. I am familiar with the grid system you refer to through various SA > botany papers-- is it posted on line? > > Dylan > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From meneice@ATT.net Sun, 11 Nov 2012 22:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <794385A0BAE74B2890B49F5436434EC0@shirley8546d75> From: "Shirley Meneice" Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 22:08:12 -0800 The Gethyllis is fantastic. Do you know where it might be available? I can't resist weird plants. Shirley Meneice -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Diana Chapman Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:21 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulbs with curly leaves Outstanding!!! I want one! Diana > Here's a Gethyllis linearis that emerged a month ago. > > It leaves are curled and sits in a North American greenhouse. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/88332547@N03/8175966649/in/photostream > > Arnold > New Jersey > > From leo@possi.org Mon, 12 Nov 2012 01:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <9ba4eaede21085b15934513b11d94b8f.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Whats blooming in the park this week.. is this a Moraea? Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 00:25:17 -0800 (PST) Mary wrote > I am both happy and sad to hear it is Moraea polystachya.? > ... > Sad because I did not irrigate those all summer so they may not come > back. > > It seems strange a corm would want moisture while dormant. That wasn't what we meant. Don't worry; especially in relatively cool Santa Barbara, the plant should be just fine with no summer irrigation. I'm pretty sure it would survive there with no irrigation ever, just your natural rainfall. We noted the summer irrigation because it is unusual for a winter-dormant corm to survive summer irrigation, but this one does. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From satx621@gmail.com Mon, 12 Nov 2012 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Mary Irish Subject: Moraea polystachya Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:12:24 -0600 Gastil I came in a few hours late, but I wanted to encourage you about your Moraea polystachya. I grew this species for years in Phoenix, Arizona and it was part of the collection at the Desert Botanical Garden there. It was entirely summer dormant there, and came out beautifully, in fact abundantly, after a long, and virtually dry summer. This one of the most reliable, and dependable, bulbs for that area and seemed to me to grow in almost any condition including extreme dryness through the summer. Good luck Mary Irish now in Castroville, Texas On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Michael Mace wrote: > Gastil wrote: > > >> I did not irrigate those all summer so they may not come back. > > Whoops, sorry, I miscommunicated. My point was that they tolerate summer > water, not that they require it all summer. Your baby bulbs are probably > fine. They'll just start growing later and (if they are blooming size) > bloom for a shorter time. I have a friend who never watered his until late > October. They grew fine but rarely bloomed. > > I keep most of mine dry from the time they go dormant until the start of > August. Then I start watering them. That gets them blooming in > October/November. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ton1.wijnen@planet.nl Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Ton Wijnen" Subject: Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:45:26 +0100 Hallo Today is flowering my Hippeastrum aulicum " Corupa' Kind regards Ton Wijnen Holland From jane@sonic.net Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50A14389.3070808@sonic.net> From: Jane Merryman Subject: Nerine i.d. Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:44:25 -0800 Wimpie has the following problem: I have a Nerine plant in my garden. I look at the images on the web but the leaves of my plant are curly and the stem of the flower is curly and the flowers are also curly and wavy. Can you please tell me what kind of nerine do I have here????? Wimpie Please reply to devilliersfarming@gmail.com -- Read my blog at www.janemerryman.com From bulborum@gmail.com Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Nerine i.d. Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:15:10 +0100 Hello Wimpie can you post a picture in Flikr , picasa or an other picture program and send us the link Roland 2012/11/12 Jane Merryman : > Wimpie has the following problem: > > I have a Nerine plant in my garden. I look at the images on the web but > the leaves of my plant are curly and the stem of the flower is curly and > the flowers are also curly and wavy. Can you please tell me what kind of > nerine do I have here????? Wimpie > > Please reply to > > devilliersfarming@gmail.com > > -- > Read my blog at > www.janemerryman.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From haweha@hotmail.com Tue, 13 Nov 2012 04:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hans-Werner Hammen Subject: Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:01:50 +0000 That is fabulous news! I would not mind, if you take sum' picture In the meantime I provide: From H.aulicum, seeds from SantaCatarina/Brasil; my best seedling, produces 2x4-umbels since 3 seasons:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/7551.jpg . . . . . . . . . . . . http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/7522.jpg . . . . . . . . . . . . From: ton1.wijnen@planet.nl To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:45:26 +0100 Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa Hallo Today is flowering my Hippeastrum aulicum " Corupa' Kind regards Ton Wijnen Holland _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From epulver@jkmlibrary.org Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Emilie Pulver Subject: The Bulb Garden Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:22:11 -0600 Jane, If you are not tired of my writing or of book reviews, I could finish a short review next week while I am on vacation though not before as I am finishing an editing job. I believe I have a couple books on the flora of several regions of South Africa from South African publishers in my bookcases. What is your deadline? Emilie Pulver in Chicago. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jane Merryman Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 11:09 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] The Bulb Garden I'm putting together the winter issue of The Bulb Garden and need two more articles. We have one article on where to find bulbs in the wild and a long one on bulb-growing climates around the world, but I could use two more short or medium-sized articles to complete the issue. Let me know if you would like to make a contribution. The fall issue is waiting for the new membership directory, which is being put together. Jane Merryman editor, The Bulb Garden jane@sonic.net -- Read my blog at www.janemerryman.com From arnold140@verizon.net Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <28697043.173516.1352821542207.JavaMail.root@vznit170146> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:45:42 -0600 (CST) Shirley: I got the bulb from Cameron and Rhoda at Croft in SA. Had to convert it to our hemisphere's growth cycle. www.africanbulbs.com Arnold On 11/12/12, Shirley Meneice wrote: The Gethyllis is fantastic. Do you know where it might be available? I can't resist weird plants. Shirley From avbeek1@hotmail.com Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Aad van Beek Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:54:51 +0100 How long will it take to convert a bulb from southern to northern hemisphere and what is the best approach to do it. For instance is it beter to lengthen the dormant period or the active growth period Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad Op 13 nov. 2012 om 16:46 heeft arnold140@verizon.net het volgende geschreven: > Shirley: > > I got the bulb from Cameron and Rhoda at Croft in SA. Had to convert it to our hemisphere's growth cycle. > > www.africanbulbs.com > > Arnold > > > On 11/12/12, Shirley Meneice wrote: > > The Gethyllis is fantastic. Do you know where it might be available? I > can't resist weird plants. > > Shirley > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arnold140@verizon.net Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <800922.218875.1352843848294.JavaMail.root@vznit170164> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:57:28 -0600 (CST) Aad: I potted the Gethyllis up in a pot with the bulb in a layer of pure sand and the roots extending down into a commercial potting mix. The first year it put up a small growth and then I placed it in a cool basement for the summer. With the advent of Fall I brought it up into the cool greenhouse and it started growth just on schedule. I've down this with most of the SA bulbs that had to be converted to Northern hemisphere growing conditions. I think the danger is to give too much water and have the bulb rot. Arnold On 11/13/12, Aad van Beek wrote: How long will it take to convert a bulb from southern to northern hemisphere and what is the best approach to do it. For instance is it beter to lengthen the dormant period or the active growth period From erle@dsl.pipex.com Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <68DF146074E9497A914DF462B8AD4E38@STUDY> From: "Erle Randall" Subject: Hardiness of Themidaceae, was fall planting and storage Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:08:42 -0000 I have been growing Dichelostemma ida-maia since 2006. I had some small bulbs from the Archibalds. Hardiness isn't my problem with minimum temperature -7°C in the coldest winter but I have only had one flower. I grow them in a large clay pot which is plunged in a frame in summer to provide a dryish rest. Any suggestions? Erle Randall Anglesey, North Wales Mild but damp. From mirrog@yahoo.com Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Hardiness of Themidaceae, was fall planting and storage Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:21:58 -0800 They need a lot of sun, and they like a little fertilizer and lime in the Spring. http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee69/motie42/dichelostemmaida-maia_zpse3bdc762.jpg From leo@possi.org Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <6259c105367238b3666e22a4cec61c4d.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: BX 327 - 4. Rhodophiala bifida? Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:38:08 -0800 (PST) I was fortunate to receive #4 in BX 327, donated by Mark Wilcox. Thank you, Mark! From Mark Wilcox: 4. Seed of Rhodophiala bifida from Alberto Castillo's 2008 donation to the BX I like to look things up for data, so I went through all the 2008 messages on the Web site looking for Alberto's donation. I noticed some interesting things: First, There is no BX 190 shown. Numbering goes from 189 to 191. Second, Alberto didn't donate R. bifida in 2008 unless it was in the missing BX 190. He did donate April 2008 BX 170 - 1. Fresh seed of Rhodophiala granatiflora April 2008 BX 171 - 3. Fresh seed of Rhodophiala granatiflora (the correct name, this time) and he was the source of June 2008 BX 174 From From Tony Avent: 30. Seed of Rhodophiala bifida, carmine-pink, originally from Alberto Castillo So, Mark, are you able to clarify? Leo Martin Phonix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <93c7b14b84f0aa2a533c13b2a26b8e2e.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: BX 183 Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:47:29 -0800 (PST) From BX 183, September 12 2008, I was lucky to receive 5 seeds of: From Uli Urban 25. Hippeastrum sp?, ex Brazil They all sprouted and grew well until I forgot to water them and I was left with only one survivor. It bloomed for the first time last May (early summer here.) The flower is clear orange. It did not accept its own pollen. How can I post to the mystery page? Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <13ac5234e10331121247df029101207c.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: BX 183 Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:02:41 -0800 (PST) I looked again on the Wiki and see that my plant looks like Nhu's H. striatum. On my first run through the Hippeastrum section of the Wiki I only looked at the first H. striatum photo, that of Lee Poulsen, and that doesn't look like my plant. Its flowers are red and actinomorphic, while mine plants' are orange and zygomorphic. Plus the text says they are about 2 inches across, while mine is larger. Nhu's plant also has zygomorphic flowers. Nhu, did your plant come from BX 183? Is it self-fertile? Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From msittner@mcn.org Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <20121114050630.6EDD3E8A82@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: BX 327 - 4. Rhodophiala bifida? Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:59:46 -0800 Leo, Dell was having trouble with his server so there was no subject heading for BX 190, but there was a BX 190: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2008-November/an0m3cgtc9r9v2iiddsbmao1o7.html It did not have seed from Alberto Castillo in it however. On the other hand there is this corrected note explaining that the Rhodophiala granatiflora in BX 170 was really Rhodophiala bifida: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2008-April/gsrm8n3u42s34oul5msj4idun3.html Mary Sue > I was fortunate to receive #4 in BX 327, donated by Mark Wilcox. >4. Seed of Rhodophiala bifida from Alberto Castillo's 2008 donation to the >BX >Are you able to clarify? From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: BX 183 Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:12:01 -0800 On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:02 PM, Leo A. Martin wrote: > Nhu, did your plant come from BX 183? Is it self-fertile? > Hi Leo, No, my plant did not come from the BX. I grew it from seeds from a friend. The plant was also not self-fertile. You should try out Flickr or Picasa if you could not get the Mystery page on the wiki to work. The size of the plant is moderate to small. You can see the pot in one of the photos on the wiki. It measures 4" across. Also, the leaves are thin. Another possibility would be H. blossfeldiae, which is a bigger plant and has thicker, more leathery leaves. Let's see a photo first before I take any more guesses. Nhu Berkeley, CA From avbeek1@hotmail.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Aad van Beek Subject: Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:44:17 +0000 Ton, Do you have a photo of this plant. Early this year I ordered seed with the same name from http://brasilplants.com. Probably the same source you had. Only got 1 seed to germinate, while the other hippeastrum seeds from brasilplants had over 80% germination. I'm curious how long it takes before it will flower. Aad >From: ton1.wijnen@planet.nl >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:45:26 +0100 >Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa >Today is flowering my Hippeastrum aulicum " Corupa' _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed, 14 Nov 2012 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: BX 327 - 4. Rhodophiala bifida? Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:13:01 +0000 Hi, In message <6259c105367238b3666e22a4cec61c4d.squirrel@www.possi.org>, Leo A. Martin writes >I like to look things up for data, so I went through all the 2008 messages >on the Web site looking for Alberto's donation. I noticed some interesting >things: First, There is no BX 190 shown. Numbering goes from 189 to 191. The BX are collated as three pdf files here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/bx.html easiest way to carry out historical research. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From marygastil@yahoo.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1352911996.19639.YahooMailNeo@web163104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: Moraea corm spacing in pot Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:53:16 -0800 (PST) I received a generous gift of Moraea corms and want to cultivate them properly. Most are planted already but now I am having doubts about how closely to space them in the pots. Im using planting baskets sectioned off into units of 11 cm x 11 cm width by 14 cm depth. Does it seem reasonable to plant between 5 and 12 corms in each, depending on corm size?  Examples of corm size and planting spacing here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/sets/72157632008776532/ For the ones already planted, I'll see how they do and adjust next year. Does it matter that these baskets will be put in an outdoor plunge bed, as soon as that's finished?  Is corm spacing different in a free-standing pot than in a pot plunged in sand? This potting mix has water retention of 0.22 ml/ml and air filled porosity of 0.24 ml/ml and is made of:     4 parts GrowStone     3 parts coarse silica sand     2 parts Happy Frog brand Ocean Forest potting mix     2 parts aged sifted compost, home made     1.5 parts coir (some fiber, mostly fines) Should I space corms more closely in some mixes than others? Thank you for advice, Gastil Santa Barbara, California From christian.lachaud@gmail.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Christian Lachaud Subject: Merodon equestris (Narcissus bulb fly, greater bulb fly, large bulb fly, large Narcissus fly) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 18:40:27 +0100 Dear All, Merodon equestris larvae have infested bulbs in my garden (Narcissus) and greenhouse (Hippeastrum, Hymenocalis), which I discovered recently. There is usually 1 larva on each bulb, which is enough to destroy any blooming hope for 2 to 3 years, if not worse. These big fat worms locate usually at the bottom of the bulb, and may penetrate to the core and destroy the bud. Additionnally, the wet wounds they create usually cause the bulb to rot. May I ask about your experiences with this problem ? How did you get rid of the adults and larvae, what are the prophylactic measures, etc. ? Best regards. From bonsaigai37@aol.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <8CF90A8069FDD94-16C8-5B61@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> From: bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: Merodon equestris (Narcissus bulb fly, greater bulb fly, large bulb fly, large Narcissus fly) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:53:02 -0500 (EST) I've been using a product containing Imidacloprid to control the beasts. A granular allpied once a year during Merodon flight/breeding season will usually keep the critters from infesting bulbs, especially the ones in pots. In ground control can be trickier. I'm less apt to apply Imidacloprid to the garden, as it is systemic and will kill other beneficial insects. Its use will also cause mites to become "extra-fecund". The population can explode and predators may have been eliminated. I always use pesticides will great caution, regardless of product. Sometimes, it's just necessary. Michael Interlaken, NY Z6 -----Original Message----- From: Christian Lachaud To: pbs Sent: Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:41 pm Subject: [pbs] Merodon equestris (Narcissus bulb fly, greater bulb fly, large bulb fly, large Narcissus fly) Dear All, Merodon equestris larvae have infested bulbs in my garden (Narcissus) and greenhouse (Hippeastrum, Hymenocalis), which I discovered recently. There is usually 1 larva on each bulb, which is enough to destroy any blooming hope for 2 to 3 years, if not worse. These big fat worms locate usually at the bottom of the bulb, and may penetrate to the core and destroy the bud. Additionnally, the wet wounds they create usually cause the bulb to rot. May I ask about your experiences with this problem ? How did you get rid of the adults and larvae, what are the prophylactic measures, etc. ? Best regards. From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <007101cdc291$ea602b70$bf208250$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Moraea corm spacing in pot Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:00:21 -0800 Gastil wrote: > I am having doubts about how closely to space them in the pots. Wow, I am in awe of the thoroughness of your planning and documentation, Gastil. Please give us updates on how those plants do; I bet we can all learn from it. I hesitate to even give any feedback, because my experience is so anecdotal. But here goes... --I've found that the blooming performance of Moraeas in my garden seems to drop off when the corms don't have enough space. They survive (and many species continue to multiply until they fill the pot), but fewer and fewer individuals bloom. I seem to get the best blooming when I plant no more than six corms per standard 8-inch (20-cm) round pot. That translates to about 50 square centimeters of surface area per corm. If my math is right, you're giving your corms between 10 and 24 square centimeters of surface area per corm. So I wonder about crowding. On the other hand, there are many other variables that could be affecting my plants' performance -- fertilizer, watering, temperatures, etc. -- Some Moraea species spread by stolons. It looks like the section dividers you're using should be able to block the stolons, but I don't know how aggressive they are. Are you using plunge media between the mesh pots? If so, I wonder if you may a few daughter corms escape into the plunge media. Not a big worry, just something to be aware of. Who knows what'll happen in your circumstances, and I'd be very happy to hear that I am wrong about spacing. So see what sort of blooms you get, and dig up the corms next summer to check how much they multiplied. Then please let us know what you learn! Mike San Jose, CA From bonsaigai37@aol.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <8CF90A9465C5AF8-16C8-612F@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> From: bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: Merodon equestris (Narcissus bulb fly, greater bulb fly, large bulb fly, large Narcissus fly) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:01:58 -0500 (EST) That would be... "A granular -applied- once a season..." M. I've been using a product containing Imidacloprid to control the beasts. A granular allpied once a year during Merodon flight/breeding season will usually keep the critters from infesting bulbs, especially the ones in pots. In ground control can be trickier. I'm less apt to apply Imidacloprid to the garden, as it is systemic and will kill other beneficial insects. Its use will also cause mites to become "extra-fecund". The population can explode and predators may have been eliminated. I always use pesticides will great caution, regardless of product. Sometimes, it's just necessary. From xerantheum@gmail.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Merodon equestris (Narcissus bulb fly, greater bulb fly, large bulb fly, large Narcissus fly) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:56:37 -0800 Hi Christian, We have some information on the wiki: http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusBulbFly Nhu On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Christian Lachaud < christian.lachaud@gmail.com> wrote: > How did you get rid of the adults and larvae, what are the prophylactic > measures, etc. > From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <01F7CBDC-E5E2-45D1-AD87-FF116B58EC9D@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Merodon equestris (Narcissus bulb fly, greater bulb fly, large bulb fly, large Narcissus fly) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:00:24 -0800 I am like Michael and apply a granular Imidacloprid product once a year usually in mid to late spring so that the plant takes it into its tissues before it becomes dormant. Luckily, the Narcissus fly seems to attack my Narcissus more often than any other plant (except for Cyrtanthus which must be Narcissus fly candy), so those two genera are the ones I especially make sure to dose. Now I basically never even see Narcissus flies, and I no longer get lots of random bulb deaths, especially right after dormancy when I can't see it happen. Also like Michael, I only apply it to my potted plants. As for the mite problem, there are only a few of my species that seem to be affected by them, and they are the same ones year after year. Bayer makes an insecticide for Roses that has a systemic miticide in it, so I apply that to those specific species at the same time I do my yearly Imidacloprid application, and it has reduced the mite incidence greatly. Other than that, I tend to be an "organic" gardener due to laziness more than anything else. ;-) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m On Nov 14, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Bonsaigai37@aol.com wrote: > I've been using a product containing Imidacloprid to control the beasts. A granular allpied once a year during Merodon flight/breeding season will usually keep the critters from infesting bulbs, especially the ones in pots. In ground control can be trickier. I'm less apt to apply Imidacloprid to the garden, as it is systemic and will kill other beneficial insects. > > > Its use will also cause mites to become "extra-fecund". The population can explode and predators may have been eliminated. > > > I always use pesticides will great caution, regardless of product. Sometimes, it's just necessary. > > > Michael > Interlaken, NY Z6 > > From contact@bulbargence.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: changing hemispheres Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:18:56 +0100 Bonjour Aad, It depends on the species, but generally I have succeeded best with shortening the dormant period, if you can get the bulbs as soon as they have been lifted. With a January planting the bulbs may get started and will go dormant again in June. Kind greetings Lauw de Jager, South of France http://www.bulbargence.com -----Original Message----- How long will it take to convert a bulb from southern to northern hemisphere and what is the best approach to do it. For instance is it beter to lengthen the dormant period or the active growth period From meneice@ATT.net Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <9D3483FA6F164099BF2465594D1E7107@shirley8546d75> From: "Shirley Meneice" Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:27:51 -0800 Thanks, Arnold. I have gotten seeds from them, but never bulbs. Glad to have the suggestions for getting them in the right rhythm for the Northern Hemisphere. Shirley, Monterey Bay, CA area, Zone 10 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of arnold140@verizon.net Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 7:46 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Bulbs with curly leaves Shirley: I got the bulb from Cameron and Rhoda at Croft in SA. Had to convert it to our hemisphere's growth cycle. www.africanbulbs.com Arnold On 11/12/12, Shirley Meneice wrote: The Gethyllis is fantastic. Do you know where it might be available? I can't resist weird plants. Shirley From petersirises@gmail.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Moraea corm spacing in pot Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:36:34 +0000 It depends on the species/ type of Moraea and also the amount of food available to the plants, planting deeply may also encourage fewer and larger corms .... some Moraeas like very wet conditions but not all! .....too many variables! I just give them enough space that the corms have room to increase. if you replant every year that wont be as much as if you plan to leave them for ten years and just give supplemental feeding. Small corms for many plants may also indicate lack of food or a short growing season, sometimes brought about by drought and consequent premature dormancy when growing in pots. Feed them well and keep them growing longer, avoid erratic watering. Peter (UK) On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Michael Mace wrote: > Gastil wrote: > > > I am having doubts about how closely to space them in the pots. > > > From leo@possi.org Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <6285ba5ca40628bebb105801e251d0d6.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: BX 183 Hippeastrum Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:56:20 -0800 (PST) Mary Sue wrote > there is this corrected note explaining that the > Rhodophiala granatiflora in BX 170 was really Rhodophiala bifida.... Thank you for the Wiki upload instructions and for this information. David wrote > The BX are collated as three pdf files here.... Thank you, that's a good resource. But, that's not nearly as educational as browsing through old messages! Nhu wrote > ...The size of the plant is moderate to small. You can see the > pot in one of the photos on the wiki. It measures 4" across. > Also, the leaves are thin. Another possibility would be H. > blossfeldiae, which is a bigger plant and has thicker, more > leathery leaves. Let's see a photo first before I take any > more guesses. Thanks. I don't think my plant is fully grown yet. I have already posted my flower photo to the mystery page. I will need to take some leaf photos when the sun is out tomorrow and upload. The leaves feel like hybrid Hipps so I doubt H. blossfeldiae. If it eventually winds up offsetting like crazy, as it's supposed to, I'll plan on sending them to Dell. If my puppies don't get there first. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA Watering containers of green sprouts and placing outside this week. From jonnimay@hotmail.it Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Giovanni Subject: Sowing of Lapiedra Martinezii seeds Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 06:56:28 +0100 Hi to all the PBS member, Just yesterday I have got a few seeds of Lapiedra Martinezii and I wonder if I must to follow some special technique to sow this species. I think that because it's a winter growing species that push out the leaves after the flower probably the seeds need a period of stratification in cold and humid condition before they sprout. What do you think about it??? Have one of the member ever tried to sow this species??? What kind of technique did you use??? Thanks in advance for your answers Regards Giovanni From guylep@hotmail.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: guy stephane andre l'eplattenier Subject: Sowing of Lapiedra Martinezii seeds Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:19:28 +0100 Hi Giovanni, Nothing special about sowing Lapiedra.... I just put them in a pot with normal sand/ peat mix, and leave it outside on my barbecue, but of course, since I live in Spain, it means fall rainy weather and cooler temperatures during the night and they germinate rather fast... anyhow,I would say it is rather easy Guy -----Message d'origine----- From: Giovanni Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:56 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Sowing of Lapiedra Martinezii seeds Hi to all the PBS member, Just yesterday I have got a few seeds of Lapiedra Martinezii and I wonder if I must to follow some special technique to sow this species. I think that because it's a winter growing species that push out the leaves after the flower probably the seeds need a period of stratification in cold and humid condition before they sprout. What do you think about it??? Have one of the member ever tried to sow this species??? What kind of technique did you use??? Thanks in advance for your answers Regards Giovanni _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From marygastil@yahoo.com Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1352962781.34873.YahooMailNeo@web163101.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: Moraea corm spacing in pot Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:59:41 -0800 (PST) Peter, thank you for your reply. I was hoping you would chime in because I know you use a plunge bed. OK I will tend toward deeper, more than 3x diameter, since I want the corms to get bigger; some are under-sized. I do plan to dig them this summer for exactly the purpose of finding out if they multiplied or grew in size. Already planted:     Moraea villosa B, M. crispa, M. tripetala, M. gigandra, M. aristata Yet to plant:     Moraea villosa A, M. bipartita, M. algoensis, M. fugax, M. ciliata, M. polyanthos The M. ciliata I realize need more space horizontally for their wide leaves. That and the M. tripetala I have grown before. The rest are new to me. Looking in the big blue 'Moraeas of Southern Africa' book, I see my corms are in these span 3 sub-genera.  Looks like they are all winter-growing, which makes sense given when they were sent dormant. As for erratic watering, this first year they might get that because it is an outdoor plunge bed and I have not yet begun to build a canopy. We tend to get too much or too little rain here.  Too little I can supplement from the rain barrels but too much rain will require a canopy. For food they will have some from the mix. I was not planning to water in fertilizer but I could. - Gastil > It depends on the species/ type of Moraea and also the amount of food available to the plants, planting deeply may also encourage fewer and larger corms .... From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 15 Nov 2012 00:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Moraea corm spacing in pot Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:54:33 +0000 My comments are only general, - I have limited experiance with Moraeas because few are hardy here and I have only recently started using heat. Provided that the compost is free draining and the pots do not flood, too much water in the growing season is rarely a problem if the pots are stood on sand, or some other medium which will draw the excess moisture from the compost. Too little moisture will prevent the new corms from growing before onset of dormancy. Another consequence of too much rain is the nutrients being washed out of the compost. This is one of the reasons I include a small amount of clay in my composts. Deeper pots retain moisture better at the bottom of the pot. Deeper pots also have greater volume and do not need to be so wide. I think that you are in danger of over potting -which is often counter productive in my experiance, though it does seem to be less of a problem in warmer climates than mine where growth is faster. My observations of overpotted plants in polytunnels is that they do better than those out of doors. With deep plastic pots an open compost mix is more important . Peter (UK) On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Gastil wrote: > OK I will tend toward deeper, more than 3x diameter, since I want the > corms to get bigger; some are under-sized. > I do plan to dig them this summer for exactly the purpose of finding out > if they multiplied or grew in size. > > As for erratic watering, this first year they might get that because it is > an outdoor plunge bed and I have not yet begun to build a canopy. > We tend to get too much or too little rain here. Too little I can > supplement from the rain barrels but too much rain will require a canopy. > For food they will have some from the mix. I was not planning to water in > fertilizer but I could. > > - Gastil > > > It depends on the species/ type of Moraea and also the amount of food > available to the plants, planting deeply may also encourage fewer and > larger corms .... > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 15 Nov 2012 00:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Bulbs with curly leaves Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 08:10:01 +0000 My Gethyllis bulbs from Cameron stayed dormant for 18 months, and grew on northern hemisphere time. I had a flower this year :) they came up again about a month ago. They were planted similarly to Arnolds, and I agree that too much water is the biggest danger. Peter (UK) From christian.lachaud@gmail.com Thu, 15 Nov 2012 01:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Christian Lachaud Subject: Merodon equestris (Narcissus bulb fly, greater bulb fly, large bulb fly, large Narcissus fly) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 09:59:21 +0100 Thanks a lot for your answers. Do you know of any organic approach? I have heard about various biocontrol agents used in the fight against Melolontha melolontha larvae (like fungi and nematodes). Wouldn't it be possible to have a similar approach to the specific problem? Has anyone tried it? Best regards. From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 15 Nov 2012 02:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Merodon equestris (Narcissus bulb fly, greater bulb fly, large bulb fly, large Narcissus fly) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 09:20:49 +0000 A net is often used here.... Peter (UK) On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Christian Lachaud < christian.lachaud@gmail.com> wrote: > > Do you know of any organic approach? > From ang.por@alice.it Thu, 15 Nov 2012 04:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <13b03e7c63f.ang.por@alice.it> From: "ang.por@alice.it" Subject: Lesser bulb fly Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:50:19 +0100 (CET) While there's a discussion on the greater bulb fly, I ask if anyone has experiences with the lesser bulb fly Eumerus tuberculatus. This pest is causing me several losses of big Brunsvigia, Amaryllis belladonna Multiflora, Veltheimia capensis. It seems to like the bigger bulbs, partially emerging from the soil. The imidacloprid is not effective so far, I have spried the plants while in leaf past season. Angelo Porcelli Apulia - Southern Italy From jonnimay@hotmail.it Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Giovanni Subject: Sowing of Lapiedra Martinezii seeds Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 18:22:27 +0100 Thanks a lot Guy for your reported experience, so I will sow them and I'll leave it outside. Regards Giovanni From leo@possi.org Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Lesser bulb fly Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:08:11 -0800 (PST) Angelo writes regarding bulb flies > causing me several losses of big Brunsvigia, Amaryllis belladonna > Multiflora, Veltheimia capensis. It seems to like the bigger bulbs, > partially emerging from the soil. The imidacloprid is not effective so > far, I have spried the plants while in leaf past season. I don't have bulb flies but here we have a native weevil that attacks Agave species in the same manner. It prefers expensive and exotic species, which will not surprise anybody here. If you drink Mexican mezcal with a grub in the bottle you will see the larva of this weevil. The insecticide has to be where the female enters the plant so she is killed before she can lay eggs. If the bulb fly enters through the crown you would need to keep granules or drench there, and you would have to retreat after rain or overhead watering. Our weevil enters where the stem touches the soil. We use permethrins or pyrethrum as a drench on the soil. Instead of a permethrin drench, some people use imidacloprid granules sprinkled around the plant and into the leaves. Overhead watering leaches imidacloprid from the granules to the soil around the stem. When we plant a new Agave we put imidacloprid granules into the soil where we expect the plant to extend its roots. With the drench plants need to be retreated after rain, and the imidacloprid is destroyed by sunlight, so the granules need to be replaced regularly. We treat our agaves monthly March through September plus after each rain. If we put imidacloprid in the soil at planting time we don't need to treat any more. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From neumannmaesgen@gmx.de Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50A669ED.2010900@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22J=2EM=E4sgen=22?= Subject: Merodon equestris Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:29:33 +0100 Shading prevents bulbs beeing infested with bulbfly, the greater and the lesser! Here in Germany light shading should used from April on until the end of the dormant period. Bulb flys only lay their eggs at places with full sun to be sure that their is enough summer heat for the development of their larvae in the ground. If you have bulbs planted out in the garden I have best results were deciduous trees and shrubs form naturally some shade in april. Micael From eagle.85@verizon.net Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1AE37143-1EFB-46A9-84C1-D2D1D37B465E@verizon.net> From: douglaswestfall Subject: Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:25:53 -0800 On Nov 13, 2012, at 4:01 AM, Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: > Ton Wijnen and Hans-Werner Hammen, This Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa is "beautiful"! If you should have seeds, PLEASE let me know. SINCERELY, Doug Westfall From ton1.wijnen@planet.nl Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Ton Wijnen" Subject: Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:36:27 +0100 Hallo Doug Thank you. I'll try to get Seeds from this one. If I have some, I let you know. Kind regards Ton Wijnen Holland -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] Namens douglaswestfall Verzonden: vrijdag 16 november 2012 23:26 Aan: Pacific Bulb Society Onderwerp: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa On Nov 13, 2012, at 4:01 AM, Hans-Werner Hammen wrote: > Ton Wijnen and Hans-Werner Hammen, This Hippeastrum aulicum Corupa is "beautiful"! If you should have seeds, PLEASE let me know. SINCERELY, Doug Westfall From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sat, 17 Nov 2012 10:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <005601cdc4ed$2d47dcf0$87d796d0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Crinum latifolium source? Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 09:58:39 -0800 Hi, gang. The question below came in to the PBS website. If you have any suggestions for Kim, please reply to her directly at her Hotmail address below. No need to send your reply to the list or to me. Thanks, Mike ===== Hi, Kim. Thanks for your note to the PBS. We have a web page that you can use to find sources for bulbs. It's here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sources Unfortunately, it looks like none of the vendors we list have it in stock. I will also ask the PBS members, and they'll be in touch if they have any ideas for you. Good luck, Michael Mace From: Kim Nguyen [mailto: Tokimkaty@hotmail.com ] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:25 AM To: mikemace@att.net Subject: PBS website contact:Crinum latifolium bulb This is a message from the PBS website for mikemace. Hi, please let me know where to buy Crinum latifolium bulb. My phone 251 554 6445 or 251 434 7245. Thanks a lot and have great day. -- Pacific Bulb Society web site email: website@pacificbulbsociety.org From petersirises@gmail.com Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Merodon equestris Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 23:58:17 +0000 Shading reduces the problem, but does not stop it! Peter (UK) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:29 PM, "J.Mäsgen" wrote: > Shading prevents bulbs beeing infested with bulbfly, the greater and the > lesser! > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon, 19 Nov 2012 17:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Merodon equestris Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:28:59 -0800 Valuable bulbs that are susceptible to bulb fly can be protected by planting them in a fairly small area and covering the area with a floating row cover such as Reemay before the flies emerge. You can also plant them in a dense perennial cover such as mat-forming thyme. Another strategy is simply to put a scoop of grit, sand, or bark over the vulnerable bulb when it begins to senesce. All these prevent the insect from laying its eggs where the larva can easily get into the bulb via the hollow left by the leaves and scape. Galanthus and Sternbergia are even more attractive to these pests than Narcissus, I find. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From totototo@telus.net Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50AB6094.14551.2BAF@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Merodon equestris Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:51:00 -0800 On 19 Nov 2012, at 16:28, Jane McGary wrote: > Galanthus and Sternbergia are even more attractive to these pests than > Narcissus, I find. Some cultivars/clones are more attractive than others. The beautiful triandrus hybrid daffodils such as 'Thalia' and 'Liberty Bells' flower the spring after planting and are never seen again, but bulbocodium hybrids such as 'Dove Wings' and its siblings seem immune. I say *seem* immune, but it might be a matter more of their earlier flowering, or it might be that they multiply strongly enough that the bulb fly doesn't do much harm to them. I have three patches of sternbergia, different clones I'd say, out in bright sun, but they appear to be thriving. When I lift them to divide, no sign of the fly. But Leucojum vernum I've never had much luck with: dug up, they're horribly infested. And again to demonstrate the fickle tastes of Merodon, Leucojum aestivum seems [there's that word again] immune. And some galanthus forms survive in good heart. The commmon double form of Galanthus nivalis is not uncommon as a feral plant in locations that are very wet in winter. Perhaps the fly larvae drown? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Merodon equestris Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:33:19 +0000 The most vigorous Narcissus and other related bulbs respond to these flys as if they had been twin scaled, an increase in bulb numbers results. N bulbocodium is certainly not immune here, nor is L aesivitum, but they both survive the fly and enough mature bulbs survive to put up plenty of flowers, with extra vegetative increase! Peter (UK) On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Rodger Whitlock wrote: > > Some cultivars/clones are more attractive than others. > but bulbocodium hybrids such as 'Dove Wings' > and its siblings seem immune. I say *seem* immune, but it might be a matter > more of their earlier flowering, or it might be that they multiply strongly > enough that the bulb fly doesn't do much harm to them. > And again to demonstrate the fickle tastes of Merodon, > Leucojum aestivum seems [there's that word again] immune. > > And some galanthus forms survive in good heart. The commmon double form of > Galanthus nivalis is not uncommon as a feral plant in locations that are > very > wet in winter. Perhaps the fly larvae drown? > > From marygastil@yahoo.com Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1353476883.41011.YahooMailNeo@web163103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: seed identification - provisionally Moraea polystachya Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:48:03 -0800 (PST) Hi does anyone have a microscope photo of Moraea polystachya seeds I can compare to to verify the id of these seeds? http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8204267921/in/set-72157631930593557 I collected these from dry seed pods, quite weathered, in the same bed as the Moraea polystachya are blooming. I think these seeds are from the same species. Can anyone confirm? The grid is 1 mm. Thank you, Gastil From zera@umich.edu Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Sean Zera Subject: seed identification - provisionally Moraea polystachya Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:24:53 -0500 http://itp.lucidcentral.org/id/fnw/key/FNW_Seeds/Media/Html/fact_sheets/Homeria.htm#simspA They should be more or less D-shaped or angular, similar to a lot of *Iris*. Sean Z From marygastil@yahoo.com Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1353515626.69809.YahooMailNeo@web163105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: seed identification - provisionally Moraea polystachya Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:33:46 -0800 (PST) Sean, Thank you. Those are some nice seed photos. Those M. polystachya seeds are a lot more angular (less round). Those have definite edges or ridges between faces of the seeds whereas these I collected are more rounded-over. The Moraea stricta seed I received in BX 306 #2 are like those, angular with ridged edges, so I know if my microscope could show that feature it would show that feature. http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/8205401416/in/photostream/ Whereas my plain camera photos of Moraea polystachya seeds like this photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/6676720189/ do not show enough fine detail for seed ID. That germinating seed really is a M. polystachya, received-as that in BX 295 #9 from Mike Mace who as seen a few Moraea in his time. Maybe these seeds just puff up when hydrated and are only angular when dry.  - Gastil > http://itp.lucidcentral.org/id/fnw/key/FNW_Seeds/Media/Html/fact_sheets/Homeria.htm#simspA > They should be  more or less D-shaped or angular, similar to a lot of *Iris*. Sean Z From gardenbetter@gmail.com Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Shmuel Silinsky Subject: Colchicum hierosolymitanum Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 07:13:22 -0500 I have a bulb of Colchicum hierosolymitanum that was rescued from a construction area. It just finished flowering. The bulb is the size of a flattened ping pong ball. I have 2 questions: 1) Colchicum hierosolymitanum is not listed on the PBS site, but that's what it is based on The Hebrew University Jerusalem website http://flora.huji.ac.il/browse.asp?action=specie&specie=COLHIE Any idea what else it may be called or does the PBS site need an update? I know tehre afre lumpers and splitters, but... 2) Any way to propagate this bulb besides seed? After many years of watching this plant bloom in situ, I have never seen it set seed. Thanks . Shmuel Jerusalem, Israel usda zone 9b From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 22 Nov 2012 05:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Colchicum hierosolymitanum Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:17:52 +0100 If you have a good soil it will make normally offsets one larger one and a small one maybe the species is self-sterile Roland 2012/11/22 Shmuel Silinsky : > I have a bulb of Colchicum hierosolymitanum that was rescued from a > construction area. It just finished flowering. The bulb is the size of a > flattened ping pong ball. I have 2 questions: > > 1) Colchicum hierosolymitanum is not listed on the PBS site, but that's > what it is based on The Hebrew University Jerusalem website > http://flora.huji.ac.il/browse.asp?action=specie&specie=COLHIE Any idea > what else it may be called or does the PBS site need an update? I know > tehre afre lumpers and splitters, but... > > 2) Any way to propagate this bulb besides seed? After many years of > watching this plant bloom in situ, I have never seen it set seed. > > Thanks > . > Shmuel > Jerusalem, Israel usda zone 9b > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 22 Nov 2012 10:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Colchicum hierosolymitanum Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 10:05:08 -0800 Shmuel in Jerusalem (the place for which this bulb is named) wrote: >I have a bulb of Colchicum hierosolymitanum that was rescued from a >construction area. It just finished flowering. The bulb is the size of a >flattened ping pong ball. I have 2 questions: > >1) Colchicum hierosolymitanum is not listed on the PBS site, but that's >what it is based on The Hebrew University Jerusalem website >http://flora.huji.ac.il/browse.asp?action=specie&specie=COLHIE Any idea >what else it may be called or does the PBS site need an update? I know >tehre afre lumpers and splitters, but... > >2) Any way to propagate this bulb besides seed? After many years of >watching this plant bloom in situ, I have never seen it set seed. I have grown a colchicum under this name for about 12 years, having originally grown it from seed purchased from Monocot (Michael Salmon), a nursery whose stock is in part now held by Kurt Vickery. Salmon collected the seeds in nature. I have, I think, four clones. They have been blooming for about 6 years. Since I moved them out of their large pot and into a raised sand bed in my bulb house, they have done much better. Each corm produces many flowers. They have set seed at least three years and I've raised more from seed and sent seed to other growers. Shmuel, I will make a note to send you seeds if it forms any this year. It may be necessary to have more than one clone to get seed. I hand-pollinated mine at least one year. My plants did not produce offsets in the pot, but I suspect they may now be making offsets since they have a better root run. This is one of the many small Colchicum species of the eastern Mediterranean. Although little known in gardens, they are delightful to grow in pots, troughs, and rock gardens. They have foliage of modest size and often their flowers are large for the size of the corm and leaves. Most have pink flowers but a few have white ones. I grew all of mine from seed from various collectors and am still trying to verify some of them. I sent out corms of a few species (especially C. boissieri, which I now also grow in the open garden) back when I was selling bulbs. A couple of white forms of C. szovitsii are available commercially, and they regularly set seed here. And yes, I do have photos of it in bloom and I should put them on the PBS wiki! I did make an attempt but did not get the photo files small enough to upload to the wiki, so must start over. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Colchicum hierosolymitanum Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:26:26 +0100 Jim send me this Roland Dear Roland: I read the PBS archives, but am not a member, so cannot contact Shmuel Silinksy. Could you be so kind to let him know that Karen Persson, the authority on Colchicum, lists Colchicum hierosolymitanum as a valid name. If he wants, he could contact her through the Göteborg Botaniska Trädgård, Göteborg, Sweden, or download some of her work which is online. She is writing a monograph which should be done in 2013 - we all hope. Cheers, Jim 2012/11/22 Jane McGary : > Shmuel in Jerusalem (the place for which this bulb is named) wrote: >>I have a bulb of Colchicum hierosolymitanum that was rescued from a >>construction area. It just finished flowering. The bulb is the size of a >>flattened ping pong ball. I have 2 questions: >> >>1) Colchicum hierosolymitanum is not listed on the PBS site, but that's >>what it is based on The Hebrew University Jerusalem website >>http://flora.huji.ac.il/browse.asp?action=specie&specie=COLHIE Any idea >>what else it may be called or does the PBS site need an update? I know >>tehre afre lumpers and splitters, but... >> >>2) Any way to propagate this bulb besides seed? After many years of >>watching this plant bloom in situ, I have never seen it set seed. > > I have grown a colchicum under this name for about 12 years, having > originally grown it from seed purchased from Monocot (Michael > Salmon), a nursery whose stock is in part now held by Kurt Vickery. > Salmon collected the seeds in nature. I have, I think, four > clones. They have been blooming for about 6 years. Since I moved > them out of their large pot and into a raised sand bed in my bulb > house, they have done much better. Each corm produces many flowers. > They have set seed at least three years and I've raised more from > seed and sent seed to other growers. Shmuel, I will make a note to > send you seeds if it forms any this year. > > It may be necessary to have more than one clone to get seed. I > hand-pollinated mine at least one year. My plants did not produce > offsets in the pot, but I suspect they may now be making offsets > since they have a better root run. > > This is one of the many small Colchicum species of the eastern > Mediterranean. Although little known in gardens, they are delightful > to grow in pots, troughs, and rock gardens. They have foliage of > modest size and often their flowers are large for the size of the > corm and leaves. Most have pink flowers but a few have white ones. I > grew all of mine from seed from various collectors and am still > trying to verify some of them. I sent out corms of a few species > (especially C. boissieri, which I now also grow in the open garden) > back when I was selling bulbs. A couple of white forms of C. > szovitsii are available commercially, and they regularly set seed here. > > And yes, I do have photos of it in bloom and I should put them on the > PBS wiki! I did make an attempt but did not get the photo files small > enough to upload to the wiki, so must start over. > > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Colchicum hierosolymitanum Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:32:20 +0000 Brian Mathew refers to it in The Smaller Bulbs on page 30. Peter (UK) From msittner@mcn.org Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <20121122192916.7628DE8AFF@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Plants pictured on the wiki Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:29:16 -0800 Hi, We started the wiki as a place people could share pictures of the bulbs they were growing. So for a long time that was what we had pictured. Then people added bulbs in habitat they had seen, bulbs in other gardens than their own, etc. We try to keep up with the name changes which is an ever challenging job. Those of us who spend hours adding to the wiki are always pleased when someone consults it. But if something is missing from the wiki, it does not mean it is not a valid plant. It just means that there was no one who added it. I hope many of you look at the recent changes on the wiki since David Pilling and Gastil are adding some amazing things. If you are a fan of Lilium you will be amazed at all that David has added to the Lilium pages. He has also added a lot of details for Nerine bowdenii. Be sure you click on the "Show pictures of bulbs, seeds and flower details" http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineSpeciesOne#bowdenii Gastil is busy adding photos of growing medium and the storage organs of plants she grows and also seeds. And to all of you in the United State who are celebrating Thanksgiving, Happy Thanksgiving. Mary Sue From totototo@telus.net Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <50AE10A8.11360.7FA7B47@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Colchicum hierosolymitanum Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:46:48 -0800 On 22 Nov 2012, at 7:13, Shmuel Silinsky wrote: > 2) Any way to propagate this bulb besides seed? After many years of > watching this plant bloom in situ, I have never seen it set seed. Have you tried hand pollinating it? If it was a single bulb growing in isolation, there may not have been any pollinators (usually insects) around. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From fatsia1234-pbs1@yahoo.com Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1353618472.28537.YahooMailNeo@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: jonathan Subject: Plants pictured on the wiki Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:07:52 -0800 (PST) "Those of us who spend hours adding to the wiki are always pleased when someone consults it." For what it's worth, Mary Sue, I joined PBS because I felt it was only right since I was using (and continue to use) your wiki far more than any other resource for bulb information as I developed the geophyte garden at Kanapaha Botanical Gardens in Gainesville, FL. Thank you (to all contributors).  Jonathan Alachua FL z8b/9a  >________________________________ > From: Mary Sue Ittner >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:29 PM >Subject: [pbs] Plants pictured on the wiki > >Hi, > >We started the wiki as a place people could share pictures of the >bulbs they were growing. So for a long time that was what we had >pictured. Then people added bulbs in habitat they had seen, bulbs in >other gardens than their own, etc. We try to keep up with the name >changes which is an ever challenging job. Those of us who spend hours >adding to the wiki are always pleased when someone consults it. But >if something is missing from the wiki, it does not mean it is not a >valid plant. It just means that there was no one who added it. > >I hope many of you look at the recent changes on the wiki since David >Pilling and Gastil are adding some amazing things. If you are a fan >of Lilium you will be amazed at all that David has added to the >Lilium pages. He has also added a lot of details for Nerine bowdenii. >Be sure you click on the "Show pictures of bulbs, seeds and flower details" >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineSpeciesOne#bowdenii > >Gastil is busy adding photos of growing medium and the storage organs >of plants she grows and also seeds. > >And to all of you in the United State who are celebrating >Thanksgiving, Happy Thanksgiving. > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <385958399.87214.1353623092932.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e19> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Colchicum hierosolymitanum Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 23:24:52 +0100 (CET) Thank-you Jane for any light you can shed on this complex genus! Yes please post as much as you can on the PBS wiki. Kind regards, Mark From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1988068266.87869.1353625412769.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e19> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Colchicum hierosolymitanum Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 00:03:32 +0100 (CET) Excellent news Roland! At last!! Mark From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50AEBB8E.80400@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: huge Hippeastrum Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:55:58 +1300 One of the last Hippeastrums to flower is this one. The flowers are absolutely huge. They measure 23cms! I also took a couple of close-up photos. I have no name for it, certainly it has never flowered before. Does anyone know what possible name it has? https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/WhatSFlowering2012SpringAndSummer?authkey=Gv1sRgCIecz7-looLZXQ#5813788396655859010 -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Thu, 22 Nov 2012 22:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: cardiocrinum sowing Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 07:12:09 +0100 Dear All! I'd like to get some first hand information of Cardiocrinum sowing. 5 years ago i managed to germinate the seeds, but i also managed to kill the seedlings, so now I'd like to keep them a bit longer. Any help is very welcome! Regards, Janos Z5a, Hungary -- Protect the environment! Please think twice before printing this e-mail. || Védjük környezetünket, csak szükség esetén nyomtassa ki ezt a levelet! From mirrog@yahoo.com Thu, 22 Nov 2012 23:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5936BF53BC414598BCF0D9C9C546AE3C@emirrojr> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: cardiocrinum sowing Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 22:31:16 -0800 I grow them the same as Lilium species seedlings. I do not keep them in the pots during hot weather. I transplant them into prepared garden beds of sandy loam soil in May. I do not separate the seedlings. I plant the entire contents of the pot, and let the seedlings grow undisturbed for about one year before separating them. It helps to mulch the soil and grow companion plants, in order to keep the soil cool and control the amount of moisture in the soil around the bulbs. You should fertilize and water them all summer long. They do not need a summer dormancy. They will grow better in sun, but they cannot stand high temperatures. Above 90F (32C) the leaves exposed to sun turn brown, and the plant makes very little growth for the rest of the summer. In the shade, they make big beautiful leaves, but it takes them longer to reach bloom size. In winter, they need protection from extreme cold. The bulbs are close to the soil surface, so hard freezes will damage or kill them. They must be protected from rodents and slugs. From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 00:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: cardiocrinum sowing Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 08:52:37 +0100 Thank you Gene, Do the seeds need a cold period to germinate, or I may sow them right away at room temperature? Janos Z5a, Hungary From bulborum@gmail.com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 00:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: cardiocrinum sowing Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 08:53:52 +0100 And Lilly beetles it seems they smell them from 2 km I spray them against Colorado beetles this works perfect for weeks if you have a few lilies just take them off and kill them Roland 2012/11/23 Gene Mirro : > I grow them the same as Lilium species seedlings. I do not keep them in the pots during hot weather. I transplant them into prepared garden beds of sandy loam soil in May. I do not separate the seedlings. I plant the entire contents of the pot, and let the seedlings grow undisturbed for about one year before separating them. It helps to mulch the soil and grow companion plants, in order to keep the soil cool and control the amount of moisture in the soil around the bulbs. You should fertilize and water them all summer long. They do not need a summer dormancy. > > They will grow better in sun, but they cannot stand high temperatures. Above 90F (32C) the leaves exposed to sun turn brown, and the plant makes very little growth for the rest of the summer. In the shade, they make big beautiful leaves, but it takes them longer to reach bloom size. > > In winter, they need protection from extreme cold. The bulbs are close to the soil surface, so hard freezes will damage or kill them. They must be protected from rodents and slugs. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 00:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: cardiocrinum sowing Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 08:56:28 +0100 I keep them in the poly-tunnel at +0ºC they germinate well then often the second winter it seems they germinate better with a warm period before Roland 2012/11/23 J. Agoston : > Thank you Gene, > > Do the seeds need a cold period to germinate, or I may sow them right away > at room temperature? > > Janos > Z5a, Hungary > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From jshields@indy.net Fri, 23 Nov 2012 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20121123083428.03620d08@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Ammocharis coranica vs tinneana Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 08:36:26 -0500 What are the distinguishing features that separate Ammocharis coranica from A. tinneana? I saw an Ammocharis in a couple places in Tanzania, but could not get close enough to really see the flowers and leaves. What should one look for? Jim ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From mirrog@yahoo.com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <90E18957717245B88CCF5E31B19D75ED@emirrojr> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: cardiocrinum sowing Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 07:43:24 -0800 It takes several warm-cold cycles to germinate them, maybe two years. I sow them whenever I have time, and keep the pots watered until they germinate. I don't let them get colder than 25F. In very cold weather, I place the pots in a refrigerator at 40F. Germination occurs in Spring. Germination percentage is usually less than 50%. From xerantheum@gmail.com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: cardiocrinum sowing Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:09:10 -0800 Hi Janos, Try the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cardiocrinum Nhu On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:12 PM, J. Agoston wrote: > I'd like to get some first hand information of Cardiocrinum sowing. > Z5a, Hungary > From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <000601cdc9ad$fb1dc5d0$f1595170$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: Veltheimia Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:08:37 -0600 Hello- When would be the best time to repot (both species)? Mine are kept in pots, in greenhouse never dipping below 62F/16.6C. The one in question is a yellow flowering bracteata, that is bulging it's 3-1/2" pot. Are there yellow flowering plants of both capensis and bracteata? Thanks, Lisa Northwest Illinois From arnold140@verizon.net Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <23839005.254160.1353698453360.JavaMail.root@vznit170190> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Veltheimia Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:20:53 -0600 (CST) Lisa: I repotted my V. bracteata, it was busting out of the plastic pot. It had side shoots which I separated and potted up in another pot. I thought fall would be the best time prior to initiating growth. Mine at kept a min temp of 45. Arnold New Jersey On 11/23/12, Shoal Creek Succulents wrote: Hello- When would be the best time to repot (both species)? Mine are kept in pots, in greenhouse never dipping below 62F/16.6C. The one in question is a yellow flowering bracteata, that is bulging it's 3-1/2" pot. Are there yellow flowering plants of both capensis and bracteata? Thanks, Lisa Northwest Illinois From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: cardiocrinum sowing Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 21:25:42 +0100 Thank you for your reply! From plantnut@cox.net Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Joseph Kraatz Subject: Veltheimia Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:29:05 -0800 My Veltheimia go below freezing before Christmas most years. Just seems to make them grow better. This year we had the worst heat day since I've lived here on Sept 14 I was 106 degrees. It went above 100 at 10am and didn't drop below 100 until 6pm. What was strange about this heat was the high humidity. In s. Calif. heat normally occurs with very low humidity. It totally blasted the foliage on all my Veltheimias. Fortunately they recovered and I fertilized them and they all look great at this time. I have a suspicion that the blasting of the foliage was because they couldn't transpire and cool down. I get yellow flowers on very few B. bracteata. The yellows never set seed and I just have to propagate by dividing the bulbs. But, I always sow the seed of the pink bracteata and about 2% produce yellow flowers. Go figure!! My V. capensis are now in full bloom. I like the foliage but the flowers are very mottled and not nearly as attractive. Joe, Oceanside, C A From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: cardiocrinum sowing Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 21:37:35 +0100 this didn't occured to me yet... thx! 2012/11/23 Nhu Nguyen > Hi Janos, > > Try the wiki: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cardiocrinum > > Nhu > > > On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:12 PM, J. Agoston >wrote: > > > I'd like to get some first hand information of Cardiocrinum sowing. > > Z5a, Hungary > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Protect the environment! Please think twice before printing this e-mail. || Védjük környezetünket, csak szükség esetén nyomtassa ki ezt a levelet! From jmsjon664@aol.com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 14:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <8CF97D8BD9FD5C1-2178-DC1C@webmail-m133.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: Veltheimia Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:29:23 -0500 (EST) I grow my Veltheimias in a greenhouse that hits freezing (but not below) every year. The capensis, which I grew from Silverhill seed, has very nice clear pink flowers; in blooms in February. I divided it once when it went dormant. Jim Jones Lexington, MA -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Kraatz To: pbs Sent: Fri, Nov 23, 2012 3:29 pm Subject: [pbs] Veltheimia My Veltheimia go below freezing before Christmas most years. Just seems to make them grow better. This year we had the worst heat day since I've lived here on Sept 14 I was 106 degrees. It went above 100 at 10am and didn't drop below 100 until 6pm. What was strange about this heat was the high humidity. In s. Calif. heat normally occurs with very low humidity. It totally blasted the foliage on all my Veltheimias. Fortunately they recovered and I fertilized them and they all look great at this time. I have a suspicion that the blasting of the foliage was because they couldn't transpire and cool down. I get yellow flowers on very few B. bracteata. The yellows never set seed and I just have to propagate by dividing the bulbs. But, I always sow the seed of the pink bracteata and about 2% produce yellow flowers. Go figure!! My V. capensis are now in full bloom. I like the foliage but the flowers are very mottled and not nearly as attractive. Joe, Oceanside, C A From TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <908C8798-0208-406D-83B3-A28FC70CDD4B@PlantSoup.Com> From: Nan Sterman Subject: Veltheimia Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 14:32:50 -0800 Joe, are your Velthemia in sun or shade? Mine are in western facing shade (under a pepper tree) and they survived that heat just fine in inland Encinitas. I wonder if the combination of heat and sun was what blasted the foliage. Nan On Nov 23, 2012, at 12:29 PM, Joseph Kraatz wrote: > My Veltheimia go below freezing before Christmas most years. Just seems to make them grow better. This year we had the worst heat day since I've lived here on Sept 14 I was 106 degrees. It went above 100 at 10am and didn't drop below 100 until 6pm. What was strange about this heat was the high humidity. In s. Calif. heat normally occurs with very low humidity. It totally blasted the foliage on all my Veltheimias. Fortunately they recovered and I fertilized them and they all look great at this time. I have a suspicion that the blasting of the foliage was because they couldn't transpire and cool down. I get yellow flowers on very few B. bracteata. The yellows never set seed and I just have to propagate by dividing the bulbs. But, I always sow the seed of the pink bracteata and about 2% produce yellow flowers. Go figure!! My V. capensis are now in full bloom. I like the foliage but the flowers are very mottled and not nearly as attractive. Joe, Oceanside, C > A > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jshields@indy.net Sat, 24 Nov 2012 07:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20121124093800.02ce1060@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Crinum in Tanzania Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:42:54 -0500 We saw, in just one spot in Tanzania, a Crinum species that I did not recognize. The picture is shown at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/index.html Just scroll down to the Crinum section, and it follows the piece on Crinum macowanii. I'd appreciate any help in IDing the unknown Crinum. Since we saw it in a national park, there was no possibility of bringing a specimen home. Crinum macowanii was seen in numerous places, including Tarangire National Park, Ngorongoro crater, and one or two places in the Serengeti. None of the bulbs seen were in seed; in fact, they all seem to have just started to bloom. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From leo@possi.org Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Veltheimia Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:19:35 -0800 (PST) In the winter mine are fully exposed to the sky and full Phoenix sun, and not protected from cold. I keep them moist to wet during the winter. They routinely experience winter daytime temperatures between 40-80 F / 3-25C and overnight frosts to the upper 20s F / maybe -4C and have several times been completely undamaged with overnight frost down to the mid teens F / -8C. Note that it always warms up above freezing here when the sun rises. I might add that Massonia leaves are frozen solid like popsicles by this treatment but thaw undamaged. So if you have another place for them with winter sun that doesn't get too much cooler than this, you don't need to take up precious heated greenhouse space with this plant. In the spring both V. species go dormant when it heats up. I have left the containers outside in the shade where they get some summer rain. I have also brought them into the house for the summer. It seems not to matter to them. My plants aren't big enough to bloom yet but they do grow well. Blooming now: Oxalis callosa, flava, hirta, pocockiae. My Oxalis suffered a severe puppy attack while dormant and I don't know what is going to come back this season. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From contact@bulbargence.com Sat, 24 Nov 2012 23:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Veltheimia Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 07:35:14 +0100 Hello all, Here Veltheimia bracteata thrives (and selfseeds) on the edge of the mediterranean sea in the shade of Viburnum tinus ( pines trees) A very short dormancy from June-August Grettings Lauw de Jager South of France http://www.bulbargence.com -----Original Message----- In the winter mine are fully exposed to the sky and full Phoenix sun, and not protected from cold. I keep them moist to wet during the winter. They routinely experience winter daytime temperatures between 40-80 F / 3-25C and overnight frosts to the upper 20s F / maybe -4C and have several times been completely undamaged with overnight frost down to the mid teens F / -8C From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 24 Nov 2012 23:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50B1C1CD.5080800@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Do any other Hippeastrums have 23cms (9") flowers? Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:59:25 +1300 One of my Hippeastrums has 23cms flowers, much bigger than any of my other ones. Are there any others this size? It is just an ordinary red one. Not named. https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/WhatSFlowering2012SpringAndSummer?authkey=Gv1sRgCIecz7-looLZXQ#5813788323059001554 -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From gardenbetter@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 01:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Shmuel Silinsky Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 03:27:26 -0500 Hi all, Jane McGary wrote: And yes, I do have photos of it in bloom and I should put them on the PBS wiki! I did make an attempt but did not get the photo files small enough to upload to the wiki, so must start over. I highly recommend Irfan Viewer. It is a small, free, very easy to use program and makes resizing a photo incredibly easy. As PBS has no place to post photos, I was wondering what free services people like. I have tried some in the past that were awkward and complicated to use, but things may have changed. Suggestions and critiques are welcome. All the best, Shmuel From bulborum@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 01:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:00:15 +0100 I use Tiny pic for resizing free and easy and better you see the result direct also you see if you need to turn the picture before upload with one click you turn it left or right the turning bug is fixed I tried so many other programs I found this the best quality pictures after resizing to 600 x 800 see : http://www.efpage.de/eTinypic.html Picasa , photobucket and Flikr are good to show pictures Roland 2012/11/25 Shmuel Silinsky : > Hi all, > > I highly recommend Irfan Viewer. It is a small, free, very easy to use > program and makes resizing a photo incredibly easy. > > > As PBS has no place to post photos, I was wondering what free services > people like. I have tried some in the past that were awkward and > complicated to use, but things may have changed. Suggestions and critiques > are welcome. > > All the best, > > Shmuel > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From avbeek1@hotmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 02:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Aad van Beek Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 09:24:27 +0000 Most of the time I'm also using IrfanView. Besides resizing it is also very useful for capturing screenshots. Because I'm using a lot of different windows pc's, I don't install IrfanView on every pc separately but rather as a portable app on a USB. A portable version of IrfanView can be downloaded from http://portableapps.com/ If you install multiple portable apps the portable apps manager is recommended. Now that I have bought an Ipad I have to figure out if it can be used there also. Other options to share photo's are Skydrive and Dropbox Aad > From: bulborum@gmail.com > I use Tiny pic for resizing > Picasa , photobucket and Flikr are good to show pictures > >> 2012/11/25 Shmuel Silinsky : > > I highly recommend Irfan Viewer. It is a small, free, very easy to use > > program and makes resizing a photo incredibly easy. From bulborum@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 02:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:34:23 +0100 I love the Tiny pic option to send the resized picture to a new map so I have all my resized pictures in the map Tiny pic on my desktop never the problem to mix up my normal pictures with the resized ones and the quality from the pictures is fantastic even 600 x 800 Once tried this free program (no pop ups or advertisements) you stay with it just open program drag and drop and two seconds later ready to send I use Dropbox but you have just a limited space Roland 2012/11/25 Aad van Beek : > > Most of the time I'm also using IrfanView. Besides resizing it is also very useful for capturing screenshots. > > Because I'm using a lot of different windows pc's, I don't install IrfanView on every pc separately but rather as a portable app on a USB. > A portable version of IrfanView can be downloaded from http://portableapps.com/ If you install multiple portable apps the portable apps manager is recommended. > Now that I have bought an Ipad I have to figure out if it can be used there also. > > Other options to share photo's are Skydrive and Dropbox > > Aad > >> From: bulborum@gmail.com >> I use Tiny pic for resizing >> Picasa , photobucket and Flikr are good to show pictures >> >>> 2012/11/25 Shmuel Silinsky : >> > I highly recommend Irfan Viewer. It is a small, free, very easy to use >> > program and makes resizing a photo incredibly easy. > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 02:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: Do any other Hippeastrums have 23cms (9") flowers? Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:59:08 +0100 Ina, To be honest I never measured Hippeastrum flower size, as far as i can remember, but I know that for sure bulb size has influence on flower size, at least for tulips, lilies, and sometimes in Hippeastrum. I had the common red Hippeastrum (Red Lion, most likely), and the offsets have smaller flowers than the mother bulb. One time i managed to get only one 46/+ sized orange and it had huge flowers, bigger than 20 cm, 3 stems, 4-5 buds/stem. Bulb size also has influence on bud count, and on stem count. But next time if i'll have a flowering sized Hippeastrum i'll measure the bulb and the flower size. Regards, Janos Z5a, Hungary From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 25 Nov 2012 02:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <50B1ECDC.4080605@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Do any other Hippeastrums have 23cms (9") flowers? Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 23:03:08 +1300 That would be interestingto know how big the flowers would be on yours. The bulb on this one is just the same size as the other ones, not particularly big. Also the stem is strong enough to carry these big flowers. Ina On 25/11/2012 10:59 p.m., J. Agoston wrote: > Bulb size also has influence on bud count, and on stem count. But next time > if i'll have a flowering sized Hippeastrum i'll measure the bulb and the > flower size. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From haweha@hotmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 02:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hans-Werner Hammen Subject: Do any other Hippeastrums have 23cms (9") flowers? Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:14:02 +0000 "Appleblossom" can reach 30 cm in Diameter!.......................................................................................................Forcing under cool coditions produces the biggest bloom....................................................................................... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/0867.jpg .................................................................................. > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:59:25 +1300 > From: klazina@orcon.net.nz > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Do any other Hippeastrums have 23cms (9") flowers? > > One of my Hippeastrums has 23cms flowers, much bigger than any of my > other ones. Are there any others this size? It is just an ordinary red > one. Not named. > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/WhatSFlowering2012SpringAndSummer?authkey=Gv1sRgCIecz7-looLZXQ#5813788323059001554 > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arnold140@verizon.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 05:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <28883521.516031.1353847541858.JavaMail.root@vznit170170> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Do any other Hippeastrums have 23cms (9") flowers? Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 06:45:41 -0600 (CST) On 11/25/12, Ina wrote: That would be interestingto know how big the flowers would be on yours. The bulb on this one is just the same size as the other ones, not particularly big. Also the stem is strong enough to carry these big flowers. Ina On 25/11/2012 10:59 p.m., J. Agoston wrote: > Bulb size also has influence on bud count, and on stem count. But next time > if i'll have a flowering sized Hippeastrum i'll measure the bulb and the > flower size. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From ds429@comcast.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <000001cdcb17$48ef6fb0$dace4f10$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 329 Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 09:15:11 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 329" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Tony Avent and Plants Delights Nursery: 1. Seed of Rhodophiala bifida, carmine 2. Seed of Lilium leichtlinii var maximowiczh ? 3. Seed of Crinum PDN#015 [(C. forb x mac) x (mac x acaule)] - already germinating 4. Seed of Crinum variabile (already germinating) From Kathleen Sayce: 5. ONE bulb of Ismene 'Festalis' 6. ONE bulb of Albuca nelsonii from BX 301 ex Pam Slate From Paige Woodward: 7. Seed of Cardiocrinum giganteum 8. Seed of Cardiocrinum cordatum var glehnii From Donald Leevers: (Seeds) 9. Allium subhirsutum 10. Anomatheca laxa 11. Gladiolus tristis 12. Habranthus martinezii 13. Habranthus brachyandrus 14. Habranthus andersonii 15. Lilium candidum 16. Ornithogalum caudatum 17. Pancratium maritimum 18. Tulbaghia maritima 19. Urginea maritima 20. Watsonia latifolia 21. Zephyranthes reginae From Roland de Boer: (Seeds) 22. Allium obliquum 23. Allium victorialis, form 1 24. Allium victorialis, form 2 25. Lilium columbianum ex N. Rocky Mountains 26. Tropaeolum brachyceras Thank you, Tony, Kathleen, Paige, Don, and Roland !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <006201cdcb28$453cb830$cfb62890$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 08:16:47 -0800 Hi All! I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large elm leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under leaves? Thanks, Colleen High desert, NE California, zone 5-6 From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 09:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 16:32:42 +0000 Which type of Iris? This would be deadly to bearded Iris in my mild (ish), damp winter climate, but probably ok for larger spurias. Peter (UK) On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Colleen wrote: > Hi All! > > > > I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large elm > leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. Most of > my > Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under leaves? > > From santoury@aol.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 09:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <8CF99472C183181-17A8-45A4@Webmail-m124.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:12:25 -0500 (EST) Here in the Northeast, yes. But I don't know about the West Coast, since I imagine they are still growing ? ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Colleen To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:16 am Subject: [pbs] Iris Hi All! I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large elm leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under leaves? Thanks, Colleen High desert, NE California, zone 5-6 From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <007101cdcb32$2a7ef8a0$7f7ce9e0$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 09:27:37 -0800 Hi Peter, Thank you for your question. Bearded Iris are what I now have. The leaves were drooping and some flat to the ground, but while there is some yellowing, most are still green. Winter temperatures have become very unpredictable, but never as mild as yours. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Peter Taggart Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:33 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris Which type of Iris? This would be deadly to bearded Iris in my mild (ish), damp winter climate, but probably ok for larger spurias. Peter (UK) On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Colleen wrote: > Hi All! > > > > I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large > elm leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. > Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under > leaves? > > From zera@umich.edu Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Sean Zera Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:52:57 -0500 It's probably not the greatest thing to do to bearded irises, but it doesn't seem to hurt them here and sometimes keeps them evergreen. I wouldn't ever do it except to protect adjacent plants, and you'd definitely want to remove the elm leaves in early spring before it warms up too much. Bulb-wise, I do purposely mulch xiphium hybrids to keep the winter-growing leaves from burning back, which also works on evergreen summer-growing moraeas. It will however cause junos and reticulatas to emerge too early for my climate. Sean Z Zone 6a SE Michigan From leo@possi.org Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <56242e9e9abfcdb109bd3c56ab639d33.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:00:40 -0800 (PST) Hello Colleen, > I have an unexpected large amount of [elm] leaves this fall, > ...so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. > Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury > them under leaves? In your desert climate you might get away with it if you don't give extra water all winter. (I bet you don't do that.) Are you thinking of mulching the Iris beds because of other things in there? The Iris don't need the mulch and are prone to rot if too wet. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From annamwal@interia.pl Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "A. M. Walnik" Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:03:13 +0100 Hi, I use Irfan View. It has a Batch conversion function - very useful when I have to resize and rename many pictures for Internet gallery. It has a Thumbnails window, many image functions and effects. And you may load many languages plugins, so I can use the program in Polish... Marek W., Poland From plicht@berkeley.edu Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <50B26108.2050103@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:18:48 -0800 We've been using Google's Picassa (free) for several years to handle out many thousands of images. It is excellent for editing, renamig, adding notes, organizing, moving round, printing, the works. Paul Licht, Director Univ. California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 11/25/2012 10:03 AM, A. M. Walnik wrote: > Hi, > I use Irfan View. It has a Batch conversion function - very useful when I > have to resize and rename many pictures for Internet gallery. It has a > Thumbnails window, many image functions and effects. And you may load many > languages plugins, so I can use the program in Polish... > > Marek W., Poland > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <4C63D8BF-57C8-410E-8D0E-CB20E96154FE@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Iris & Mulch Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:19:06 -0600 > I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large elm > leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. Most of my > Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under leaves? Dear Colleen, I would not recommend this for any bearded iris. If you have a very dry winter you can give them a THIN layer of shredded leaves, but NEVER bury bearded iris. Most bearded iris are native to dry climates and moisture around the base of the leaves can lead to rot very easily. I suspect they will just fine without any leaves on the bed. Good luck. Jim W. From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <007801cdcb39$d3bdfb30$7b39f190$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:22:28 -0800 Hi Silent Seed, I am not on the coast. We are on the east side of the Sierras and at 4,100' elevation. While we are not desert, we do have a dry climate. A few years ago I decided to do the "right" thing and separate the historic iris on this property and remove the wild rye grass that suffocates everything. I researched the directions for planting iris, planted accordingly and lost nearly all of them! I was just sick. Then I found that a few plants had overwintered just fine while buried under heaps of sod and soil. This made me think that iris need to be planted more deeply in this climate. Then I met two women who plant their iris 6-8 inches deep! Another woman, who lives out in the Nevada desert, plants her's about 4 inches deep. All of this made me think that maybe a pile of leaves might be a welcome addition. Also, this year I raised some dahlias and planted them out. Supposedly I am to dig and store them. This is not going to happen for many reasons so I figured I have nothing to lose from trying a thick cover of leaves. Directions for lily bulbs in this climate say to mulch. So they received plenty of leaves. I just went out and flipped up the iris leaves through the tree leaves wondering if sun on the leaves, but mulch on the ground would be a good combination. Maybe there will be some more comments in which case I can go back out and recover the iris. :) Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of The Silent Seed Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 9:12 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris Here in the Northeast, yes. But I don't know about the West Coast, since I imagine they are still growing ? ______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -----Original Message----- From: Colleen To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:16 am Subject: [pbs] Iris Hi All! I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large elm leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under leaves? Thanks, Colleen High desert, NE California, zone 5-6 From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <007901cdcb3a$daf148c0$90d3da40$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:29:49 -0800 Thanks Leo! I just sent an explanation of what else is in the beds. I don't add water in the winter. Sounds like I need to give the iris more air. I have never been able to really much before because I had a flock of miniature chickens that kept things stirred up. This year a coon and a huge, grey, barn owl conspired to kill all but one chicken and she is now in one of the hen houses. I thought I'd make lemon aid from the lemon of losing my prime breeding stock and mulch like they say in all the how-to articles. Nothing is easy. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Leo A. Martin Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 10:01 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris Hello Colleen, > I have an unexpected large amount of [elm] leaves this fall, ...so I > have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. > Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under > leaves? In your desert climate you might get away with it if you don't give extra water all winter. (I bet you don't do that.) Are you thinking of mulching the Iris beds because of other things in there? The Iris don't need the mulch and are prone to rot if too wet. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <007a01cdcb3b$a512bcb0$ef383610$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:35:28 -0800 Thanks Sean, While your area and mine are about the same temperature zone, I think you are probably more humid. I think what is going to happen is that I won't be able to remember just where all the iris are planted so some will get uncovered and some will remain covered and the results will be a highly uncontrolled experiment! Hopefully it won't be disastrous. The responses (thanks all) do make it sound like mulching is a rather iffy thing to do. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Sean Zera Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 9:53 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris It's probably not the greatest thing to do to bearded irises, but it doesn't seem to hurt them here and sometimes keeps them evergreen. I wouldn't ever do it except to protect adjacent plants, and you'd definitely want to remove the elm leaves in early spring before it warms up too much. Bulb-wise, I do purposely mulch xiphium hybrids to keep the winter-growing leaves from burning back, which also works on evergreen summer-growing moraeas. It will however cause junos and reticulatas to emerge too early for my climate. Sean Z Zone 6a SE Michigan From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <007b01cdcb3c$2ac062e0$804128a0$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris & Mulch Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:39:13 -0800 Thanks Jim! It seems the consensus is that my bounty of leaves will be too much of a good thing for my iris. Your comment about Iris being native to dry climates explains why my friend in the middle of the desert in Nevada can easily raise beautiful Iris. I will go out and be more diligent in finding my Iris and digging them out. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 10:19 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris & Mulch > I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large > elm leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. > Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under leaves? Dear Colleen, I would not recommend this for any bearded iris. If you have a very dry winter you can give them a THIN layer of shredded leaves, but NEVER bury bearded iris. Most bearded iris are native to dry climates and moisture around the base of the leaves can lead to rot very easily. I suspect they will just fine without any leaves on the bed. Good luck. Jim W. From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:17:36 +0000 Hello Colleen, If you do not lift the dahlias from the ground, the mulch should be a very good idea for them, and for most lillies too. However bearded Iris tend to get a bacterial rot (and greenfly which transmit virus), if warm and /or humid. cold and airy is better for them. Many bearded Iris species will in fact burrow their rhizomes under the surface of the ground, especially most of the Oncocyclus and Regelia species, as well as Iris reichenbachii, variagata, attica, pumila..... Most historic Iris have a lot of Iris Pallida in them, which is less fussy, as well as I variagata, aphylla and pumila. If these are planted in humus rich soils they tend to rot, though I have found I variagata in particular more resistant. In my experience, many of the bearded Iris, and in particular the ones which do not grow with their rhizomes on the surface, are very reluctant to put down roots if the rhizomes are not buried, as you have observed. - I normally mulch them with grit or gravel. I would expect that in your less humid climate that many of these Iris would indeed do better planted well below the surface, but a gravel mulch rather than an organic one would be more appropriate. The UK has a very variable climate. My normal minimum winter temperature here is about minus 10 c, however I have had two recent winters with several weeks of minus 15c or colder at night. Occasionally winters here are almost frost free. Peter (UK) On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Colleen wrote: > Thanks Sean, > > While your area and mine are about the same temperature zone, I think you > are probably more humid. I think what is going to happen is that I won't > be > able to remember just where all the iris are planted so some will get > uncovered and some will remain covered and the results will be a highly > uncontrolled experiment! Hopefully it won't be disastrous. > > From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Iris & Mulch Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:21:42 +0000 dont lift the Iris from the ground before they are expected to freeze!!! -or frost heave will decimate them. just remove the leaves- including the yellowed Iris leaves. On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Colleen wrote: > I will go out and be more diligent in finding my Iris and digging them out. > > Colleen > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of James Waddick > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 10:19 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris & Mulch > > > I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large > > elm leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. > > Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under > leaves? > > > Dear Colleen, > > I would not recommend this for any bearded iris. If you have a very > dry winter you can give them a THIN layer of shredded leaves, but NEVER > bury > bearded iris. Most bearded iris are native to dry climates and moisture > around the base of the leaves can lead to rot very easily. > > I suspect they will just fine without any leaves on the bed. > > Good luck. Jim W. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ksayce@willapabay.org Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:22:19 -0800 Colleen wrote about irises and piling leaves on them. It's not clear what kinds of iris you grow, probably tall bearded? Most iris should be cut back in fall or early winter. Then, winter mulch in dry cold climates should not be a problem, unless it gives rodents a foraging advantage. [In wet winter areas, dense mulches like hardwood leaves can create serious fungal problems for irises.] Don't forget to pull the mulch back in spring. Do think about creating a compost area for those leaves and other suitable garden debris. Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From leo@possi.org Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Colleen's Dahlia Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:58:08 -0800 (PST) > ...I raised some dahlias and planted them out. Supposedly I > am to dig and store them. This is not going to happen.... If you dig up one small piece of each that you want to keep and store that, you can have as many as you want next year. Be sure the pieces you dig are still attached to some of the main stem, where the growing points are. Let dry then store in a zip baggie in sawdust, sand or paper shreds in your cellar or a cool room. Next spring about 6 weeks before last frost put the tubers in a pie pan with enough water to half cover, and put in a sunny window. When the sprouts are a few inches long separate them off and put into 3" or so pots, and grow on. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <50B2794B.60006@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: BX 329 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:02:19 +1300 Hello Dell Could I have 1. Seed of Rhodophiala bifida carmine The emails I sent privately are being bounced. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From bulborum@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: BX 329 Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:21:33 +0100 Gmail tell me that your emails maybe are send from an other computer and that it maybe unsave to open them maybe Dell his computer is more protected Roland 2012/11/25 Ina : > Hello Dell > > Could I have > 1. Seed of Rhodophiala bifida carmine > > The emails I sent privately are being bounced. > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From Jtlehmann@aol.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <10c8.64adcab9.3de3d974@aol.com> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com Subject: Bearded Iris & Mulch Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:28:37 -0500 (EST) I do mulch my bearded iris. I use a ground pine bark mulch, applied at a depth of about two inches in the spring, which disappears (breaks down & blows away) by fall to a thin layer; by the following spring there is bare soil. My bearded iris are grown at my property south of where I live. They are on a slight slope, in very thin soil, in the open. The bed is surrounded by the native stones that came out of the bed. Without mulch, the soil would be very dry and would blow away; the surface become very dust like. They never receive supplemental irrigation outside of rain, except for new individual plants at installation time. Have you ever noticed at the garden centers in the spring, there are many bearded iris available for sale in full bloom? And then suddenly they just "disappear?" Look behind the store...they've all rotted being too deep and too wet in "potting mix" and with poor garden center culture. In-ground, especially in my situation, they do just fine with mulch. But I do not have experience with leaves as mulch. Also, deer do eat bearded iris. All winter they eat the foliage to mere nubs (normally our winters are mild enough to keep the bearded iris evergreen or at least partly so). They continue eating them until a more preferred food greens-up in the spring. However, they continue to eat the flower stalks as they emerge. Once the flowers are open, the deer seem to leave the bearded iris alone, even the ones with fragrant flowers (unlike hyacinths which they leave alone until the flowers open, I think it's the fragrance the deer can't resist). The deer do sample the bearded iris flowers, like they do daffodil flowers, but never really eat them. For both bearded iris and daffodils, if I look long enough I can find the chewed flowers the deer spit out. --Jerry Lehmann Olathe, KS, zone 5, but enjoying an unseasonable warm November afternoon out yardening From theladygardens@aol.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <8CF9965A1DB9187-1EF0-EFB5@webmail-m171.sysops.aol.com> From: theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:50:27 -0500 (EST) Iris never need to be cut back in winter, if you can, pull the dead leaves off but leave the greeen leaves. Burying them under mulch will rot the rhiomes although the roots can be planted in mulch. -----Original Message----- From: Kathleen Sayce To: pbs Sent: Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:22 am Subject: [pbs] Iris Colleen wrote about irises and piling leaves on them. It's not clear what kinds of iris you grow, probably tall bearded? Most iris should be cut back in fall or early winter. Then, winter mulch in dry cold climates should not be a problem, unless it gives rodents a foraging advantage. [In wet winter areas, dense mulches like hardwood leaves can create serious fungal problems for irises.] Don't forget to pull the mulch back in spring. Do think about creating a compost area for those leaves and other suitable garden debris. Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From fatsia1234-pbs1@yahoo.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1353878092.75964.YahooMailNeo@web160906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: jonathan Subject: Colleen's Dahlia Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 13:14:52 -0800 (PST) "If you dig up one small piece of each that you want to keep and storethat, you can have as many as you want next year." Leo, is the number of sprouts from any one tuber determined by the number of growing points that are on the piece of attached stem, or can more than one sprout be produced even if there's only one growth point? Do the sprouts develop roots into the water (like a sweet potato slip), or are they rootless when you take them off to pot up? Thanks, Jonathan z8b/9a, Alachua/Gainesville, (North Central) Florida From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 25 Nov 2012 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50B28F3B.7070108@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: BX 329 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:35:55 +1300 That is weird, Roland. I sent them from my usual computer, all the usual things as I always do. Same address, same server. Ina On 26/11/2012 9:21 a.m., Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > Gmail tell me that your emails maybe are send from an other computer > and that it maybe unsave to open them > > maybe Dell his computer is more protected > > Roland > > 2012/11/25 Ina : >> Hello Dell >> >> Could I have >> 1. Seed of Rhodophiala bifida carmine >> >> The emails I sent privately are being bounced. >> >> -- >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From bulborum@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: BX 329 Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 22:52:09 +0100 Send me a private one and I Show you what I mean Roland 2012/11/25 Ina : > That is weird, Roland. I sent them from my usual computer, all the usual > things as I always do. Same address, same server. > > Ina > On 26/11/2012 9:21 a.m., Bulborum Botanicum wrote: >> Gmail tell me that your emails maybe are send from an other computer >> and that it maybe unsave to open them >> >> maybe Dell his computer is more protected >> >> Roland >> >> 2012/11/25 Ina : >>> Hello Dell >>> >>> Could I have >>> 1. Seed of Rhodophiala bifida carmine >>> >>> The emails I sent privately are being bounced. >>> >>> -- >>> Ina Crossley >>> Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Sun, 25 Nov 2012 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4865BEA92352447ABF59E65F6DEB8F2B@homepc> From: "iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org" Subject: Cardiocrinum Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:57:15 -0000 The seeds which I sent to Janus Agoston in Hungary were not Cardiocrinum giganteum but CC cathayanum and glehnii. Their cultivation is varied from that of Cardiocrinum giganteum or Cardiocrinum yunnanense and would be predicated on the local climate in terms of both winter temperature and summer heat wherever they are being cultivated. These two taxa are the smallest by overall mature heights with C. glehnii being the smallest. High ambient air temperatures, low humidity and strong direct sunlight are best avoided, as too late Spring frosts which we can get right through 'till June requiring protection overnight with white horticultural fleece Cardiocrinum cathayanum is probably the least understood or with cultivation experience in the West however here in northern Scotland it performs well and is not very challenging whereas Cardiocrinum glehnii is a cool temperate and even coastal boreal, my stock is from both northern Japan and Far Eastern Russia where winter temperatures can be quite severe. All four taxa preferentially grow under the open canopy of broadleaf or mixed broadleaf light or open forest cover invariably in soils with a high humus content or litter. In the experience at this location the bulbs which are never far from the surface will survive down to - 20 to - 25 C winter temperatures providing they have a reliable covering of snow to at least 50 - 60 cms however on the precautionary principle we also dump a significant covering of the current year's leaf litter with a light covering of sand or gritty soil to ensure it doesn't get blown off should the snow fail. We have worked both with the removal in May of all or most of the leaf litter but recently due to illness this did not happen during the past two winters, I simply forgot to do so and all the bulbs of all four taxa came up hail and hearty. Soil pH seems preferentially to be on the acidic side, e.g. 4.5 to 6.0 but I understand that providing adequate moisture is available when growing Cardiocrinums can cope in alkaline soils.Cardiocrinum are gross feeders and have high water demands when in growth but must be very well drained when dormant or will rot really fast, usually due to frozen tissues being quickly damaged. Should conditions suit them they will readily colonise and have done so e.g. in cooler parts of Australia. As far as seed sowing is concerned, this can either be done in the Autumn as done here most years and overwintered out of doors with no discernable losses in my experience. Sowing is undertaken in deep plastic seed trays with a light covering of well composted leaf litter and grown on in situ for 2 - 3 years prior to pricking out into individual pots or final planting site[s]. Alternatively artificial breaking of dormancy can be done by the regular in and out of the fridges set at c. 0 C + or - as for most Liliaceous genera. Germination in any one batch of seed is generally irregular which may be an evolutionary adaptation to ensure continuity. Predation by slugs is our worst problem but semi-mature bulbs and the regular bulb offsets from the same seem generally more or less immune in Scotland or mainland Europe from rodent damage however I suspect that the North American experience might well be a whole different story. All taxa are being treated at full specific level in th e new Lily monograph based on several comparative criteria observed at first hand, a potentially uncomfortable position for a taxonomic 'lumper' to find himself in, no doubt there will be other equally valid views. Ce la vie! Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 205105 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <2CE01D2D-BC9C-481E-B758-D11708C48D9B@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Iris Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:13:46 +1000 Hey Colleen Gee i haven't been here for months, I've been away & so busy but hello everyone.. :-) I live I'n Australia, my last girlfriend was from NE California so i know your dry conditions & soil type, although our rain fall is higher than yours, i suffer very long droughts some years & given my poor soil conditions & my barren mountain top, we probably have very similar growing conditions, I've just been through 80 days of what i call micro-drought, searing heat dry winds & not a drop of water until last couple of weeks. Flowers are bursting from the ground every where at last.. Bearded iris like to grow at the surface with their rhizomes "always" partially exposed to sunlight so mulching stops this & it does carry some weight I'n regard to quality of flowering, "I'n my experience, that is the case!" Although I've only been growing them for 10 or 12 years, i know they are just happier I'n the sun. The years i don't get around to uncovering them, there is always a loss or two :-( I noticed people thought you might be ok for rot, I'n the dry & i do mulch my gardens during extreme dry, with fine mixed hard & soft wood mulch "which does carry potential for decease" but it works for me & my leaf drop is very heavy too, so they have to put with being covered sometimes because the chickens & scrub turkeys scratch mulch & leaves all over them, but i always go round & scrape it back around the edges of my bearded irises because they can get fungal problems & rot even I'n extreme dry seasons.. The base of the leaf can rot too & although not so common they can get root rot too, if they wilt this could be part of the problem. In summery i would not leave them covered for extended periods if it's convenient to remove the bulk of the mulsh. Steven Esk Queensland Australia : ) On 26/11/2012, at 2:16 AM, "Colleen" wrote: > I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large elm > leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. Most of my > Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under leaves > Thanks > Colleen > > High desert, NE California, zone 5-6 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Iris Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 02:45:14 +0000 Instead, make sure all those dried foliage remains are burnt to cut down the cycles of pests and diseases. From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <00c701cdcb82$ea70a410$bf51ec30$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:05:36 -0800 Thanks Peter! The coldest we have experienced here is -32F (-35.5C ?). It used to always get at least -10F (-23C). However, things have been warming for several years now and the coldest it has gotten was two winters ago with -22F (-28C). Then one year it only got down to 14F. Some years it dips to -4 or -8 for just a few hours which is just long enough to do damage. We also no longer have the generous snow pack that we used to. I generally plant for the worst case scenario as it is too expensive to lose things every few years. We also have WIND. The cold, dry air combined with extreme winds really dries things out. In the summer we can get dry winds that will take away the moisture in the upper inches of soil in a matter of minutes after I just finished watering. With all of these stressors my iris, which until this year, were all very old, did not multiply as most seem to expect them to do. No clumps. So far I don't think I have had bacterial rot, though I just may not have known what it looked like. Thanks for all your sharing. I will save this post. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Peter Taggart Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 11:18 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris Hello Colleen, If you do not lift the dahlias from the ground, the mulch should be a very good idea for them, and for most lillies too. However bearded Iris tend to get a bacterial rot (and greenfly which transmit virus), if warm and /or humid. cold and airy is better for them. Many bearded Iris species will in fact burrow their rhizomes under the surface of the ground, especially most of the Oncocyclus and Regelia species, as well as Iris reichenbachii, variagata, attica, pumila..... Most historic Iris have a lot of Iris Pallida in them, which is less fussy, as well as I variagata, aphylla and pumila. If these are planted in humus rich soils they tend to rot, though I have found I variagata in particular more resistant. In my experience, many of the bearded Iris, and in particular the ones which do not grow with their rhizomes on the surface, are very reluctant to put down roots if the rhizomes are not buried, as you have observed. - I normally mulch them with grit or gravel. I would expect that in your less humid climate that many of these Iris would indeed do better planted well below the surface, but a gravel mulch rather than an organic one would be more appropriate. The UK has a very variable climate. My normal minimum winter temperature here is about minus 10 c, however I have had two recent winters with several weeks of minus 15c or colder at night. Occasionally winters here are almost frost free. Peter (UK) On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Colleen wrote: > Thanks Sean, > > While your area and mine are about the same temperature zone, I think > you are probably more humid. I think what is going to happen is that > I won't be able to remember just where all the iris are planted so > some will get uncovered and some will remain covered and the results > will be a highly uncontrolled experiment! Hopefully it won't be > disastrous. > > From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <00c801cdcb83$334d4a30$99e7de90$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris & Mulch Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:07:39 -0800 Sorry Peter, a poor choice of words, I didn't mean digging up the rhizomes, I meant moving the leaves off the plant. :) Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Peter Taggart Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 11:22 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris & Mulch dont lift the Iris from the ground before they are expected to freeze!!! -or frost heave will decimate them. just remove the leaves- including the yellowed Iris leaves. On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Colleen wrote: > I will go out and be more diligent in finding my Iris and digging them out. > > Colleen > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of James Waddick > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 10:19 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris & Mulch > > > I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large > > elm leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. > > Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them > > under > leaves? > > > Dear Colleen, > > I would not recommend this for any bearded iris. If you have a > very dry winter you can give them a THIN layer of shredded leaves, but > NEVER bury bearded iris. Most bearded iris are native to dry climates > and moisture around the base of the leaves can lead to rot very > easily. > > I suspect they will just fine without any leaves on the bed. > > Good luck. Jim W. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <00c901cdcb83$546d83b0$fd488b10$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:08:37 -0800 Thank you, good point. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 6:45 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris Instead, make sure all those dried foliage remains are burnt to cut down the cycles of pests and diseases. From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <00ca01cdcb84$517731a0$f46594e0$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:15:41 -0800 Thanks Kathleen, I do have a compost heap, but our growing season is so short and we have relatively little green material, that with the dry air it can take a long time - like years to make compost. I have recently tried using coffee grounds from Starbucks to see if I can speed up the process. We do have rodents. Yesterday I killed a gopher the size of a big Guinea Pig. We also have voles. I have never cut my Iris. Why is it done? Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen Sayce Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 11:22 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Iris Colleen wrote about irises and piling leaves on them. It's not clear what kinds of iris you grow, probably tall bearded? Most iris should be cut back in fall or early winter. Then, winter mulch in dry cold climates should not be a problem, unless it gives rodents a foraging advantage. [In wet winter areas, dense mulches like hardwood leaves can create serious fungal problems for irises.] Don't forget to pull the mulch back in spring. Do think about creating a compost area for those leaves and other suitable garden debris. Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <00cb01cdcb84$cf647000$6e2d5000$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Colleen's Dahlia Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:19:11 -0800 Thanks for the instructions Leo! I'm not sure I will be able to try it this year. I care for my husband who has cancer, work and go to grad school in addition to chores and grounds care. Also, we do not have a cellar or cool room. Things are either in the house or outside frozen. I will keep this message though for just in case. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Leo A. Martin Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 11:58 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Colleen's Dahlia > ...I raised some dahlias and planted them out. Supposedly I am to dig > and store them. This is not going to happen.... If you dig up one small piece of each that you want to keep and store that, you can have as many as you want next year. Be sure the pieces you dig are still attached to some of the main stem, where the growing points are. Let dry then store in a zip baggie in sawdust, sand or paper shreds in your cellar or a cool room. Next spring about 6 weeks before last frost put the tubers in a pie pan with enough water to half cover, and put in a sunny window. When the sprouts are a few inches long separate them off and put into 3" or so pots, and grow on. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Iris Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 03:21:17 +0000 It is done to prevent wind toppling the newly planted divisions over. The problem is that cutting back the foliage is not the best thing for the plants. From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <00cc01cdcb86$55050160$ff0f0420$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Bearded Iris & Mulch Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:30:06 -0800 Hi Jerry! I live on ranch land that was once upon a time part of Lake Lahonton so we have a lot of heavy clay and few rocks. When I work in the next county I stop to collect big rocks to put around my plants. I consider it transplanting rocks :) I think they help to retain heat and moisture and keep the soil in place. We don't have summer rains so I have to irrigate the yard with a fire hose in order to keep up with the drying wind. One problem I have is that my flower beds are a real patchwork so everything gets water or no water and it is survival of the fittest. I am trying to at least have sections for the different water requirements. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jtlehmann@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 12:29 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Bearded Iris & Mulch I do mulch my bearded iris. I use a ground pine bark mulch, applied at a depth of about two inches in the spring, which disappears (breaks down & blows away) by fall to a thin layer; by the following spring there is bare soil. My bearded iris are grown at my property south of where I live. They are on a slight slope, in very thin soil, in the open. The bed is surrounded by the native stones that came out of the bed. Without mulch, the soil would be very dry and would blow away; the surface become very dust like. They never receive supplemental irrigation outside of rain, except for new individual plants at installation time. Have you ever noticed at the garden centers in the spring, there are many bearded iris available for sale in full bloom? And then suddenly they just "disappear?" Look behind the store...they've all rotted being too deep and too wet in "potting mix" and with poor garden center culture. In-ground, especially in my situation, they do just fine with mulch. But I do not have experience with leaves as mulch. Also, deer do eat bearded iris. All winter they eat the foliage to mere nubs (normally our winters are mild enough to keep the bearded iris evergreen or at least partly so). They continue eating them until a more preferred food greens-up in the spring. However, they continue to eat the flower stalks as they emerge. Once the flowers are open, the deer seem to leave the bearded iris alone, even the ones with fragrant flowers (unlike hyacinths which they leave alone until the flowers open, I think it's the fragrance the deer can't resist). The deer do sample the bearded iris flowers, like they do daffodil flowers, but never really eat them. For both bearded iris and daffodils, if I look long enough I can find the chewed flowers the deer spit out. --Jerry Lehmann Olathe, KS, zone 5, but enjoying an unseasonable warm November afternoon out yardening From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <00d301cdcb8c$25e902e0$71bb08a0$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:11:44 -0800 Thank you! I have always wondered about it. I've heard that some people cut their plants because they think it looks neater or is the "correct" thing to do, but I have wondered what effect it had on the plant since the leaves serve a purpose. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:21 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris It is done to prevent wind toppling the newly planted divisions over. The problem is that cutting back the foliage is not the best thing for the plants. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Iris Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:16:13 +0000 It is downright stupid when there is no wind to rock the newly planted divisions. It is also the main cause of virus dispersal when using the same tool. From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <00d401cdcb8f$dcc19b50$9644d1f0$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:38:20 -0800 G'day Steven! You have my attention, WHERE in NE California? Yes, it does sound like we have some growing conditions in common. I am surrounded by hundreds of acres of rangeland that is usually green. I've always said we don't have to worry about fire because of it. This year though was so dry that while the grass was still green, it was totally dry and a fire broke out across the road from us! It just happened that the fire crew were on their way to another fire and got this one put out before it blew to our side of the road. The directions I followed in my first efforts at planting Iris followed your idea of the Iris liking to grow at the surface. That was what doomed them as they all froze. It had never occurred to me to ask locals how they plant their Iris until that episode my finding some rhizomes that survived nicely under a pile of sod and soil. Then I found out they plant anywhere from 4-8 inches deep. Hearing that and my experience made me rethink how to care for Iris here. I too had chickens that tended the flower beds until last week. I've never had to rake the lawn before either. The leaves would drop, and the trees didn't have as many, the wind would come and clean off the lawn depositing the leaves on the flower beds. The chickens kept thinks tilled up and took care of any leaves left on the lawn. Sigh. This year there were so many leaves and they were bigger than usual, that even the wind didn't take care of all of them. We have alkaline soil so tough-tough grass is endemic. I'm hoping that the mulch will keep some of it under control. I went out and found most, if not all, the Iris and pulled away the leaves. I hope everything will be happy as I get so much enjoyment from my flowers. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Steven Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 3:14 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris Hey Colleen Gee i haven't been here for months, I've been away & so busy but hello everyone.. :-) I live I'n Australia, my last girlfriend was from NE California so i know your dry conditions & soil type, although our rain fall is higher than yours, i suffer very long droughts some years & given my poor soil conditions & my barren mountain top, we probably have very similar growing conditions, I've just been through 80 days of what i call micro-drought, searing heat dry winds & not a drop of water until last couple of weeks. Flowers are bursting from the ground every where at last.. Bearded iris like to grow at the surface with their rhizomes "always" partially exposed to sunlight so mulching stops this & it does carry some weight I'n regard to quality of flowering, "I'n my experience, that is the case!" Although I've only been growing them for 10 or 12 years, i know they are just happier I'n the sun. The years i don't get around to uncovering them, there is always a loss or two :-( I noticed people thought you might be ok for rot, I'n the dry & i do mulch my gardens during extreme dry, with fine mixed hard & soft wood mulch "which does carry potential for decease" but it works for me & my leaf drop is very heavy too, so they have to put with being covered sometimes because the chickens & scrub turkeys scratch mulch & leaves all over them, but i always go round & scrape it back around the edges of my bearded irises because they can get fungal problems & rot even I'n extreme dry seasons.. The base of the leaf can rot too & although not so common they can get root rot too, if they wilt this could be part of the problem. In summery i would not leave them covered for extended periods if it's convenient to remove the bulk of the mulsh. Steven Esk Queensland Australia : ) On 26/11/2012, at 2:16 AM, "Colleen" wrote: > I have an unexpected large amount of leaves this fall, mostly large > elm leaves, so I have been piling them on my flower beds as a mulch. > Most of my Iris still have green leaves. Is it OK to bury them under > leaves Thanks Colleen > > High desert, NE California, zone 5-6 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <221BAEE3-B30F-41BD-AFC5-AC7A62D6C7B9@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:45:12 -0800 Bearded iris leaves suffer from awful looking leaves on the coast so gardeners cut off them off. The fungus likes moist air. I think bearded iris have unspotted healthy leaves if they grow inland. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada On 25-Nov-12, at 7:15 PM, Colleen wrote: > > > I have never cut my Iris. Why is it done? > From leo@possi.org Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <57c4908424ab1c28025bd379e8a19789.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Colleen's Dahlia Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:01:08 -0800 (PST) Jonathan wrote regarding sprouting Dahlia in dishes of water indoors in late winter: > ...is the number of sprouts from any one tuber > determined by the number of growing points that > are on the piece of attached stem, or can more > than one sprout be produced even if there's > only one growth point? Multiple sprouts are produced. I don't know whether one growth point produces multiple shoots (e unum pluribus but I bet the declension is wrong and I feel certain I'll be corrected) or whether there are growth points I can't see. If nobody has figured this out I sense a publication for somebody with a microscope and some time. But I suspect the botanical giants on whose shoulders we stand found the answer and I haven't read it. > Do the sprouts develop roots into the water They root in the water. I forgot to add, use chlorinated city water if available, and change the water frequently, the better to prevent microorganism growth. Or better, change the water frequently, plus put into your sprouting water an airstone on the end of an air tube from a small aquarium air pump. This keeps the water well oxygenated, killing a lot of pathogenic microorganisms. If you sprout a lot of things in water, it might be worthwhile to set up a larger air pump with a manifold to provide multiple sources of air to multiple sprouting jars. Such supplies are sold at aquarium shops. You still should change the water frequently. Dahlias are interesting plants. Their year-round habitat temperatures are like my winters, but with (almost) no chance of frost. However, it's wet in the Dahliaphoretic mountains of Mexico, with year-round drizzle, frequent evening and night mists, and heavy dew almost every night. Their companions are things like Begonia, Calceolaria, Ceratozamia, Echeveria, ferns and fern allies, cloud forest orchids, Salvia and certain Tillandsia. Obviously I wish I could grow them. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4ceacdbf63ce65c47f39f1cdf99f479a.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: High desert Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:15:30 -0800 (PST) Colleen, you have what is known as a steppe climate. Central Asia has such a climate. There are lots of interesting things you can grow that are impossible for most of us and not easy for the rest. Plus if you grow things native to a climate like yours, you will have a lot less work. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 22:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <00e001cdcb95$95174bf0$bf45e3d0$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:19:16 -0800 Another good point on the spread of virus. I have a friend who grows a few hundred Iris in the desert where she constantly has to unbury them from the blowing sand why she cuts hers. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:16 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris It is downright stupid when there is no wind to rock the newly planted divisions. It is also the main cause of virus dispersal when using the same tool. From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 25 Nov 2012 22:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <00e101cdcb95$e5bf5660$b13e0320$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Iris Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:21:32 -0800 Hmmm. There are always other points of view. I have never seen "awful looking leave", even when I lived by San Francisco. Interesting. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Diane Whitehead Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:45 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris Bearded iris leaves suffer from awful looking leaves on the coast so gardeners cut off them off. The fungus likes moist air. I think bearded iris have unspotted healthy leaves if they grow inland. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada On 25-Nov-12, at 7:15 PM, Colleen wrote: > > > I have never cut my Iris. Why is it done? > From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 22:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: High desert Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 05:22:13 +0000 Although not bulbous, Eremuruses, Asphodelus, Incarvillea From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 22:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Iris Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 05:25:48 +0000 It could be a fungal disease typical of bearded Irises that is easily controlled with Zineb. From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 22:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Iris Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 06:11:49 +0000 Bearded Iris can get "rust" which is unsightly. It is easily controlled, -spray the ground as well as the plant. Mostly the old leaves are best removed by pulling them down and away from the bud starting with the bottom or outer one first. They detach quite easily if they are ready. In damp conditions the old leaves tend to collect water around the bud which leads to bacterial rot. There is also a fungal disease known as "ink spot". In all cases old leaves are best removed. I have seen both Ink spot and bacterial rot on most types of Iris, and the old leaves do not pull of some as easily as the bearded types, requiring to be cut. Peter (UK) On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:25 AM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > > > It could be a fungal disease typical of bearded Irises that is easily > controlled with Zineb. > > From zera@umich.edu Sun, 25 Nov 2012 22:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Sean Zera Subject: Iris Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 01:12:20 -0500 > > It is downright stupid when there is no wind to rock the newly planted > divisions. I find that they just fall over under the weight of their own leaves. Some people also cut them in the fall to reduce leaf spot since the fungus overwinters on the leaves. I assume pulling the dried leaves in the spring works as well, though. Colleen, juno irises ought to grow really well in your climate. *Iris bucharica* is the most readily available species. Sean Z Zone 6a SE Michigan From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 25 Nov 2012 23:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Iris & Mulch Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 06:20:20 +0000 I realised Colleen, - but best to make sure ;) On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:07 AM, Colleen wrote: > Sorry Peter, a poor choice of words, I didn't mean digging up the rhizomes, > I meant moving the leaves off the plant. :) > > From pollards22@yahoo.com Mon, 26 Nov 2012 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1353938788.28298.YahooMailClassic@web163801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: Shawn Pollard Subject: High desert Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 06:06:28 -0800 (PST) Colleen, High Country Gardens out of Santa Fe has a mail order catalog full of plants appropriate to your climate, and I'm sure the local native plant society can also give you some tips. Your climate is similar to that of northern New Mexico, Arizona around Prescott, and the "warmer" parts of the Colorado Plateau (think species tulips!). Having spent many years in southeastern Arizona and southwestern Texas, I have much experience with what we call "high desert," but even that isn't nearly as cold as your region. Shawn Pollard Yuma, AZ From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Mon, 26 Nov 2012 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1353939157.24987.YahooMailNeo@web87903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Colleen's Dahlia Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:12:37 +0000 (GMT) I must have missed something.   Why would you go to all this trouble when Dahlias can be set to shoot, or root (cuttings) in straight potting compost. The same compost you stored them in dry over winter if needed.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, UK, zone ~8ish, and currently very wet. >________________________________ >Jonathan wrote regarding sprouting Dahlia in dishes of water indoors in >late winter: > >> ...is the number of sprouts from any one tuber >> determined by the number of growing points that >> are on the piece of attached stem, or can more >> than one sprout be produced even if there's >> only one growth point? > >Multiple sprouts are produced. I don't know whether one growth point >produces multiple shoots (e unum pluribus but I bet the declension is >wrong and I feel certain I'll be corrected) or whether there are growth >points I can't see. If nobody has figured this out I sense a publication >for somebody with a microscope and some time. But I suspect the botanical >giants on whose shoulders we stand found the answer and I haven't read it. > >> Do the sprouts develop roots into the water > >They root in the water. > >I forgot to add, use chlorinated city water if available, and change the >water frequently, the better to prevent microorganism growth. Or better, >change the water frequently, plus put into your sprouting water an >airstone on the end of an air tube from a small aquarium air pump. This >keeps the water well oxygenated, killing a lot of pathogenic >microorganisms. > >If you sprout a lot of things in water, it might be worthwhile to set up a >larger air pump with a manifold to provide multiple sources of air to >multiple sprouting jars. Such supplies are sold at aquarium shops. You >still should change the water frequently. > > From TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <12A97873-46D8-4022-8C5F-7DA0EFBA4E6C@PlantSoup.Com> From: Nan Sterman Subject: High desert Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 08:23:52 -0800 Colleen, do you get any summer rain? If not, be careful with what you order from High Country Gardens. Their plants are wonderful, but the deserts of NM and AZ get summer monsoon rains. In order to survive in California's dry summers (which is the case in almost all of the state), they require at least some summer irrigation to simulate the monsoon moisture. Just another quirk of living in a Mediterranean climate… Nan ***************************************** Nan Sterman, Plant Soup, Inc TM Garden Journalist • Speaker Gardening Coach • Garden Designer • Horticulture Consultant Mail PO Box 231034, Encinitas, CA 92023 Web www.PlantSoup.com Blog http://plantsoup.com/blog/ Video http://www.plantsoup.com/tv-radio.php Author California Gardener's Guide vol II and Waterwise Plants for the Southwest Articles in print San Diego Union Tribune, Los Angeles Times, Sunset Magazine, Organic Gardening, and more…. Board Member, Garden Writers Association, Region VI Founding member, Great Garden Speakers Founding Board Member, Association of Professional Landscape Designers (APLD), San Diego District Founding Chair Encinitas Garden Festival & Tour On Nov 26, 2012, at 6:06 AM, Shawn Pollard wrote: > Colleen, > > High Country Gardens out of Santa Fe has a mail order catalog full of plants appropriate to your climate, and I'm sure the local native plant society can also give you some tips. Your climate is similar to that of northern New Mexico, Arizona around Prescott, and the "warmer" parts of the Colorado Plateau (think species tulips!). Having spent many years in southeastern Arizona and southwestern Texas, I have much experience with what we call "high desert," but even that isn't nearly as cold as your region. > > Shawn Pollard > Yuma, AZ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Colleen's Dahlia Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 00:12:28 +0000 The goal is to obtain well developed shoots by the time the weather gets warm enough. But, why to obtain water roots when as Brian says it would be easy to obtain ground roots in a loose material like commercial compost, dust shavings or coarse peat. From contact@bulbargence.com Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:31:16 +0100 Hello Roland and Shmuel, Can you tell me please if these two applications can run on a Apple Mac? Greetings Lauw de Jager France -----Original Message----- I found this the best quality pictures after resizing to 600 x 800 see : http://www.efpage.de/eTinypic.html > I highly recommend Irfan Viewer. It is a small, free, very easy to use > program and makes resizing a photo incredibly easy. From avbeek1@hotmail.com Tue, 27 Nov 2012 02:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Aad van Beek Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:40:41 +0100 From the documentation irfanview can probably run on mac but not as a native application. See www.irfanview.com/faq.htm#Q58. Tinypic is a typical windows app so should not run a mac out-of-the-box. But I would expect a Mac already equiped with better/easier applications for resizing / downsampling than windows Sent from my iPad On 27 nov. 2012, at 09:31, "contact" wrote: > Hello Roland and Shmuel, > Can you tell me please if these two applications can run on a Apple Mac? > Greetings > Lauw de Jager > France > -----Original Message----- > I found this the best quality pictures after resizing to 600 x 800 > see : http://www.efpage.de/eTinypic.html > >> I highly recommend Irfan Viewer. It is a small, free, very easy to use >> program and makes resizing a photo incredibly easy. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 27 Nov 2012 03:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:42:25 +0100 No Idea Lauw I don't know much from computers but if you go to the site there is a link so you can mail him Roland 2012/11/27 contact : > Hello Roland and Shmuel, > Can you tell me please if these two applications can run on a Apple Mac? > Greetings > Lauw de Jager -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From haweha@hotmail.com Tue, 27 Nov 2012 03:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hans-Werner Hammen Subject: F2 from Papilio---Cybister crosspollinations? Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:02:22 +0000 I have them in bloom now, in Abundance, 14 Seedlings, F1 from H.cybister("Chico") x H.papilio("the common clone sold worldwide")http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/7853.jpg The closest commercial versions of which are ONLY "Jungle Star" and "Lima" is that correct? My "best" seedling, so far is "Nr.2" http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/6757.jpg Has anybody raised progeny F2 from this kind of Hybrids? How do these look - Is this project rewarding? From ds429@comcast.net Tue, 27 Nov 2012 05:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <000001cdcc99$d26b6a90$77423fb0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 329 CLOSED Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 07:22:03 -0500 Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Help needed Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:25:24 +0100 I am after somebody who want to send sometimes small amounts bulbs from the USA to France impossible sometimes to buy on ebay or from nurseries they don't want to send abroad of-course I pay for what is necessary and can you control what is in the parcel for small amounts to France is no Phyto necessary just a CN22 Roland [image: logo] *Bulborum Botanicum* *mail: bulborum@gmail.com* *Site: www.bulborum.com *Nursery is closed for the public* * Get a signature like this. CLICK HERE. 2012/11/27 Dell Sherk > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From piabinha@yahoo.com Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1354115977.94622.YahooMailNeo@web39301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: OT Easy Photo software and where to post Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:19:37 -0800 (PST) irfan view is a great product but it does not work on a mac.   ======= tsuh yang ------------------------------ Hello Roland and  Shmuel, Can you tell me please if these two applications can run on a Apple Mac? Greetings Lauw de Jager France From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Help Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:35:01 +0100 Thanks a lot for the response I have somebody who wants to do the sending now and then here you see what a fantastic club of people this is good gardening for all winter is coming up here so bring in your plants if not hardy Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From ksayce@willapabay.org Wed, 28 Nov 2012 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Easy photo software Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:58:26 -0800 Probably the simplest software I use for photo manipulations is Graphic Converter, which works in all operating systems, Mac and PC included. It allows imports from many different formats, saving in many different formats, resizing, cropping, and other useful manipulations. Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed, 28 Nov 2012 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50B6C571.8040505@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Easy photo software Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 15:16:17 +1300 How much does that program cost, Kathleen? On 29/11/2012 7:58 a.m., Kathleen Sayce wrote: > Probably the simplest software I use for photo manipulations is Graphic Converter, which works in all operating systems, Mac and PC included. It allows imports from many different formats, saving in many different formats, resizing, cropping, and other useful manipulations. > > Kathleen > > Kathleen Sayce > PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <50B6C9C9.4050108@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Easy photo software Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 15:34:49 +1300 Only Mac is mentioned as to which systems it will work on, not Windows. Ina On 29/11/2012 7:58 a.m., Kathleen Sayce wrote: > which works in all operating systems, Mac and PC included -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From totototo@telus.net Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <50B767B5.32343.3C75@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Easy photo software Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:48:37 -0800 On 28 Nov 2012, at 10:58, Kathleen Sayce wrote: > Probably the simplest software I use for photo manipulations is Graphic > Converter, which works in all operating systems, Mac and PC included. It allows > imports from many different formats, saving in many different formats, resizing, > cropping, and other useful manipulations. You forget Linux and other Unix-like operating systems, as well as Android and other oses used on handheld devices. For Linux the obvious recommendation is Gimp, but frankly, I hate it and take my own advice given in the next paragraph: My own advice is to find a machine running a version of Windows no later than Win98 and a copy of PaintShopPro version 3 or 4. Like a lot of older software, it has the great advantage of being very simple and straightforward. Modern software is generally overburdened with features you don't need for simple manipulations of image files. Simplicity has been sacrificed for featuritis. The only drawback to those old versions of PSP is that they don't recognize the later version of JPEGs. Remember, everyone, that at the end of the day, it's best to aim for taking photographs that suit the requirements right out of the camera. If you find yourself endlessly fussing with color balance, gamma, and so on, anything beyond straightforward cropping and watermarking, you are probably doing something wrong. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From jgglatt@gmail.com Fri, 30 Nov 2012 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Easy Photo Prgrams Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 13:48:36 -0500 What I used to use, and adored, was Microsoft's PictureIt! Lovely program, easy to use, did all that I needed (not much) and more. Came bundled with my previous computer. Microsoft stopped supporting it two or three years ago. No matter, still had it on my computer. Got a new computer. No PictureI! and since it came bundled with the old computer no installation discs etc. So sad. I'm using Gimp. It resizes images, I can insert a copyright notice (ignored by so many people around the world), straighten a tilted image. No doubt it does far more but I'm not interested and do not find it as intuitive / friendly as PictureIt! Why, when we find something we like is it "improved", taken off the market, or otherwise made unlikeable? Judy, in still mostly snow covered New Jersey with nights in the mid- to low 20 degrees Fahrenheit and days in the low 40s and so many more toppled mature oak trees awaiting attention with chainsaw From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 30 Nov 2012 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <50B902F1.5060708@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Easy Photo Prgrams Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2012 08:03:13 +1300 You can buy it on Amazon, I think. Ina On 1/12/2012 7:48 a.m., Judy Glattstein wrote: > Microsoft stopped supporting it two or three years ago. No matter, still > had it on my computer. > > Got a new computer. No PictureI! and since it came bundled with the old > computer no installation discs etc. So sad. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From sipos.barna@gmail.com Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Barna Sipos Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 22:11:09 +0000 Hi All, I tried to find some more exact information about the cold hardiness of some Lycoris species, but every webpage says something different. (somewhere the L sprengeri hardy to USDA zone 6 but the other page is warning: "do need to be brought indoors for the winter" in the UK.) Has anybody got information about these plants? Which one is reliably frost hardy at which USDA zone? I would be interested mainly the species listed below. L albiflora L aurea L caldwellii L chinensis L haywardii L houdysellii L longituba L radiata L rosaea L sanguinea L sprengeri L traubii Many Thanks, Barna Sipos Hungary, UK From jshields@indy.net Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20121130171913.0390e490@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:22:11 -0500 The following are hardy outdoors in the ground all year round in Indiana -- USDA cold zone 5, ca 1000 mm rain per year, in all months: L caldwellii L chinensis L longituba L sanguinea L sprengeri The others in the list are either only marginally hardy here or are unknown to me. Jim Shields At 10:11 PM 11/30/2012 +0000, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I tried to find some more exact information about the cold hardiness >of some Lycoris species, but every webpage says something different. >..... >Barna Sipos >Hungary, UK ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From zera@umich.edu Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Sean Zera Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:46:58 -0500 My understanding is that most species with spring-growing leaves survive to -25°C or so, while those with winter leaves are less hardy. I've never gotten *L. radiata* to survive even a mild winter, and it's usually said to be Zone 6 hardy. The species Jim listed, as well as *L. incarnata*, are perfectly hardy here, but I'm clearly doing something wrong as few of them flower for me. Sean Z Zone 6a SE Michigan From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:59:06 -0600 On Nov 30, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Barna Sipos wrote: The following species are reliably hardy in a continental climate (Warm summers, cold winters) into Zone 5. I have grown these trouble free for decades in Kansas City MO, USA.. L caldwellii L chinensis L longituba L sanguinea L sprengeri and L. squamigera and L. incarnata The next 3 species are slightly more tender and require some protection in Zone 6, but should do fine in Zone 7. In my cooler zone they survive, but do not bloom reliably every year due to winter foliage damage. L haywardii L houdysellii L radiata I am not completely familiar with the next 3, but they should do well in USDA Zone 7, 8, 9 L albiflora L rosaea L traubii L aurea is the most tender species of the lot and will not bloom reliable with repeated freezing temperatures. It is also not widely grown under the correct name. You should be aware that any species that produce foliage in fall in cold climates will have freeze damage which can weaken the bulb, prevent flowering and over the long term kill the entire thing. Alternately those species that produce their foliage in spring and do not get severe cold and freezing damage are much hardier species. And as a rule, those species with more succulent foliage are most susceptible to freeze damage. All species benefit from warm to hot summers and all dislike extreme baking conditions in summer. Best Jim W. From fatsia1234-pbs1@yahoo.com Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1354318818.60873.YahooMailNeo@web160903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: jonathan Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:40:18 -0800 (PST) L. aurea has survived in Gainesville FL at least down to 18F. Jonathan Alachua/Gainesville Florida, z8b/9a From bulborum@gmail.com Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 01:04:02 +0100 For how long was that Jonathan was there a snow cover and how deep do you plant them I measure from the neck of the bulb Roland 2012/12/1 jonathan : > L. aurea has survived in Gainesville FL at least down to 18F. > > Jonathan > Alachua/Gainesville Florida, z8b/9a > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From sipos.barna@gmail.com Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <3BA41C15-5750-412E-B5B6-33DC90F02BA3@gmail.com> From: Barna Sipos Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 00:08:09 +0000 Thanks to all of you for the answers. It is really helpful. Will be easier to decide what should I buy and try to plant out. (The Lycoris seeds I got last year from Jim Waddick via PBS produced their first set of leaves now. After germination tiny bulbs developed and they were dormant for a whole year!) Thanks again, Barna From Tony@plantdelights.com Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:10:56 -0500 Barna: Winter hardiness of plants can vary by as much as 20 degrees F, based on the amount of summer heat they receive or don't receive. In other words, if a warm climate plant would survive -10 degrees F in a hot summer climate, it will likely not survive lower than +10 degree F in a cool summer climate...hence the reason for the discrepancies in hardiness ratings. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Barna Sipos Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 5:11 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Lycoris Cold Hardiness Hi All, I tried to find some more exact information about the cold hardiness of some Lycoris species, but every webpage says something different. (somewhere the L sprengeri hardy to USDA zone 6 but the other page is warning: "do need to be brought indoors for the winter" in the UK.) Has anybody got information about these plants? Which one is reliably frost hardy at which USDA zone? I would be interested mainly the species listed below. L albiflora L aurea L caldwellii L chinensis L haywardii L houdysellii L longituba L radiata L rosaea L sanguinea L sprengeri L traubii Many Thanks, Barna Sipos Hungary, UK From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1354320711.95321.YahooMailNeo@web84505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:11:51 -0800 (PST) Old books mention Lycoris aurea thriving in St. Augustine, Florida. In fact, after Googling a bit, I learned that this species in now sometimes called the St. Augustine lily.  In my experience, Lycoris aurea mercatorum is more apt to be L. traubii, but I've never been comfortable with the purported distinction between these.  Jim McKenney   From fatsia1234-pbs1@yahoo.com Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:17:11 -0800 Message-Id: <1354321374.78360.YahooMailNeo@web160906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: jonathan Subject: Lycoris Cold Hardiness Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:22:54 -0800 (PST) Roland wrote: "For how long was that Jonathan >was there a snow cover >and how deep do you plant them >I measure from the neck of the bulb" > > >The necks are just under the soil surface. The soil is very sandy.  I haven't seen snow here.  The 18F occurred for about 2 hours on 2 successive mornings, followed by a rise in the daytime to the low to mid 40s (F). These bulbs came from Telos although they're said to be common around St. Augustine, which is about 50 miles east of here. I guess I need to go there and look for them one of these Septembers. > > >Jonathan >Alachua/Gainesville Florida, z8b/9a > >