Richard, I think most of the spiny M echinatas in circulation are actually M pygmaea or M hirsuta. The latter designation is terribly confused, applied to some M jasminiflora types from Addo and also to some M pygmaea(?) types from Van Rhyns Pass. Paul Cumbleton has a putative M hirsuta with the extreme spines you are looking form but the flowers are decidedly M depressa types. See <http://srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/…> for a picture. I'm guessing you would be happy with the spiny M pygmaea that I'm growing. Stay tuned for seeds in the BX if everything works out. --Roy NW of Boston