Paige I will be more than happy to provide what info I have on this, it isn't my intention to question other's views or experience but on the basis of what we have managed here, small scale admittedly but from out of the 4,000 plus propagules produced here last season around a third were from scales production of which a significant percentage but not accurately quantified from out of that number were derived from broken scales, rotted off bottom sections of scales and rotted off base plates across a wide range of taxa. Maybe a case exists for an experiment with a control to compare outcomes both within and across species if we had the time. The main feature in achieving this was the use last year of mostly fine grade vermiculite stored in bags at ambient temps of c. 20 C + / - However I am no longer using fine grade, only medium grade vermiculite, due to respiratory problems with health and safety implications associated with the former. I have no evidence to suggest that the outcomes are any different between the grades, however the scales in prep right now seem to be performing OK so far. A lot is down I think to ensuring [a] a reasonably steady temperature and [b] the correct moisture levels of the vermiculite. I do intend to write it all up in due course but taking time off for my 'problem' at the end of this coming week could not have been more badly timed if I had tried so it will just have to wait its turn. I must admit though I was never aware there was any issues related to which parts of the scales were used, or not, being a tight Scot I am just hard wired to scavenge anything that seems healthy and let it do what it can, if it can, as several of the species are pretty limited and I always feel barely one step way from disaster due to our climate here with some of the lilies we grow as this winter demonstrated, but for the presence of a constant metre of snow cover over 15 weeks the - 18 to - 26 C would have had serious consequences following the collapse of our large polytunnel [hoop house] on Christmas morning due to an overnight snow drop of 1.2 metres on top of it. Great Christmas present however as youngest daughter pointed out, nobody died and nobody got hurt, I didn't and don't quite see it like that it has to be admitted. Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 145231 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len/ The Professional version does not have this message