From plicht@berkeley.edu Thu Oct 1 00:16:44 2009 Message-Id: <4AC42D10.6010806@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Amaryllis belladonna and fire Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:16:16 -0700 I don't see any particular theme. Here in Berkeley at the Garden and my home, they bloomed profusely as they do almost every year. We now have a nice collection of colors. Paul Licht, Director Univ. California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Hi, > > It has been a dismal year for the Amaryllis belladonna in my garden. > Only two have bloomed. Usually I have a lot more bloom. > > You may recall in our recent discussion about how to get them to > bloom that I wrote that in South Africa they are much more likely to > bloom after a fire. Members of this list didn't seem willing to go to > those extremes to get them to bloom. > > Several weeks ago a local restaurant burned to the ground. This > restaurant was sited close to a bluff top overlooking the Gualala > River and the Pacific Ocean. Below it was a steep slope that was a > mixture of mostly non native vegetation (non native grasses, Vinca > major, wild radish) although there were some Garryea elliptica (silk > tassel bushes/trees) and Baccharis closer to the bottom. The upper > part burned with the building taking out for the moment the Vinca. > Walking on the bottom of the slope where there is a trail a week plus > later we saw something pushing out of the ground on the hillside > above in the scorched earth and broken glass. Immediately we figured > out it had to be Amaryllis belladonna. We've never seen it there and > I'm not sure how it got there since I don't think anyone could have > planted it on that steep of a slope. But it is all over the place > with more coming up all the time. I took a few pictures for the wiki > today, but I couldn't get very close and my zoom lens distorts distances. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllis > > > Mary Sue > > PS. So far it seems to be a great start for my Oxalis and Moraea > polystachya is in bloom and the first Crocus and Hyacinthoides > lingulata. Also a number of Nerine hybrids and species are in bloom > and a lot of Cyclamen. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu Oct 1 11:32:19 2009 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Amaryllis belladonna and fire Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 08:32:10 -0700 Wow Mary Sue, I think it's an interesting comparison from your garden and a localized climate where you live. We have discussed many themes which these bulbs could bloom and fire could be one of the triggers as you have shown. I also really like the photos. I must confess I am intrigued by bulb inflorescences (or other leafless plants) that come out of barren ground. It's so alien. Nhu Berkeley CA Blooms have slowed down a bit but Nerine hybrids are still going plus a few Oxalis. On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Hi, > But it is all over the place > with more coming up all the time. I took a few pictures for the wiki > today, but I couldn't get very close and my zoom lens distorts distances. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllis > > From adam14113@ameritech.net Thu Oct 1 15:59:55 2009 Message-Id: <4DA02EC6B65B4EAB872D12DCAB1E37CF@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 14:59:50 -0500 I need some advice. Will using Roundup on the soil around DORMANT bulbs affect them adversely? I bneed to get rid of Johnson grass in my bulb bed. Personal anecdotal experience is much needed. "Bulbs" involved are alliums, Hyacinths, muscari, and Fritillaria From ron_redding@hotmail.com Thu Oct 1 16:15:51 2009 Message-Id: From: Ronald Redding Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 06:15:40 +1000 Adam I have used glypohosate around dormant hybrid hippeastrums with no effect on them at all. My understanding for this agent to work, plants need to be in active growth. Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia > From: adam14113@ameritech.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 14:59:50 -0500 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Use of Roundup > > I need some advice. Will using Roundup on the soil around DORMANT bulbs > affect them adversely? I bneed to get rid of Johnson grass in my bulb bed. > > Personal anecdotal experience is much needed. "Bulbs" involved are alliums, > Hyacinths, muscari, and Fritillaria > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ View photos of singles in your area Click Here http://dating.ninemsn.com.au/search/search.aspx?exec=go&tp=q&gc=2&tr=1&lage=18&uage=55&cl=14&sl=0&dist=50&po=1&do=2&trackingid=1046138&r2s=1&_t=773166090&_r=WLM_EndText From puppincuff@cox.net Thu Oct 1 19:46:20 2009 Message-Id: <20091001194612.TX2C5.450377.imail@fed1rmwml29> From: Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 19:46:12 -0400 --not only do the plants have to be in active growth, but glyphosate must be administered to the foliage - it's ineffective if sprayed on the stem or roots! chuck Schwartz Southern Californis-- Ronald Redding wrote: > > Adam > > > > I have used glypohosate around dormant hybrid hippeastrums with no effect on them at all. My understanding for this agent to work, plants need to be in active growth. > > Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia > > > > > From: adam14113@ameritech.net > > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 14:59:50 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Use of Roundup > > > > I need some advice. Will using Roundup on the soil around DORMANT bulbs > > affect them adversely? I bneed to get rid of Johnson grass in my bulb bed. > > > > Personal anecdotal experience is much needed. "Bulbs" involved are alliums, > > Hyacinths, muscari, and Fritillaria > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _________________________________________________________________ > View photos of singles in your area Click Here > http://dating.ninemsn.com.au/search/search.aspx?exec=go&tp=q&gc=2&tr=1&lage=18&uage=55&cl=14&sl=0&dist=50&po=1&do=2&trackingid=1046138&r2s=1&_t=773166090&_r=WLM_EndText > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Oct 1 19:51:51 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:47:01 -0700 I have seen no ill effects from using Roundup over completely dormant bulbs. In fact, last year I had to get rid of a very invasive subshrub (Rosa sp.) and I used Crossbow on it over dormant bulbs with no apparent damage. However, before I sprayed the Crossbow, I covered the sites of the bulbs (colchicums, mostly) with a thick layer of bark mulch, which I later removed. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From oothal@hotmail.com Thu Oct 1 21:03:46 2009 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Newest find Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 20:03:37 -0500 Hi all, Today I had to take my monthly drive to the doctors in Beaumont Texas. I spied a couple of blooms along the road and of course I did not have my camera. So I had to grab my camera after I got back home and hit the road. The first flowers I saw were something not many here would care about it, since it is not a bulb but it was pretty non the less. Cardinal flower. First time for me to see it blooming along the road. The next thing I saw I posted a pic of it on flickr. It was a bulb blooming, though the wind was blowing a gale. I had a hard time getting a pic that was not all blurry. I was hoping someone could confirm my tentative ID for it. I am thinking it is Crinum americanum. A link to the pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oothal/3972604665/ Also if anyone would like to take a look at this a pic of my Liatris I have growing. This pic shows a Liatris with normal blooms and a Liatris with rather not normal blooms. http://www.flickr.com/photos/oothal/3927266593/in/photostream/ A close up pic of the Liatris with not normal blooms. http://www.flickr.com/photos/oothal/3927315405/in/photostream/ Anyone able to venture a guess if this is just a genetic defect or something else? Thanks all Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a _________________________________________________________________ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing™ now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 From jimlykos@bigpond.com Thu Oct 1 23:13:27 2009 Message-Id: <0AC42999432A46D7A62903CE5E262886@amaryllis> From: "jim lykos" Subject: Amaryllis belladonna and its wild varieties Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 13:13:15 +1000 Hi Mary Sue and Nhu, One factor that I dont think has been considered in discussion about what initiates flowering in Amaryllis belladonna, is the large variation in flowering percentages from distinct wild cultivars of Amaryllis as against good flowering percentages from Amaryllis cultivars that have been crossed with other Amaryllis forms/varieties. By wild varieites I mean the Amaryllis varieties that were oginially collected and exported from South Africa during the 1820's to 1880's mainly form the SW Cape. Most of my Amaryllis cultivars have about an 80% flowering rate - where every mature sized bulb flowers each year, with exceptions for bulbs that had a heavy seed load through controlled crosses the previous flowering season. Conversely there are a few cultivars of what I regard are the pure belladonna varietial forms of Amaryllis where regardless of how they are cultured flowering is only initiated 10% to 30% of the time. The poorest flowering variety has very light pink trumpet shaped flowers and - has between 5 to 9 flowers that all face the direction of the midday sun. It is a very poor seed setter, and the seeds are always relatively small and round. These are found through the farmlands of south east of Australia particularly in 19th Century cemeteries where they have often naturalized. I understand that there are a few distinct colour forms in South Africa that are regionally based, and are uniformly coloured darker pinks and are more robust in flower. There is a more even pink and a purplish pink Amaryllis belladonna also found in country side regions in SE Australia that have the look of being different wild forms of the species. Has anyone seen these flowering in South Africa as uniform flower colours, or grows them - what difference do they display? Cheers Jim Lykos Blue Mountains Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nhu Nguyen" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 1:32 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Amaryllis belladonna and fire > Wow Mary Sue, > > I think it's an interesting comparison from your garden and a localized > climate where you live. We have discussed many themes which these bulbs > could bloom and fire could be one of the triggers as you have shown. I > also > really like the photos. I must confess I am intrigued by bulb > inflorescences > (or other leafless plants) that come out of barren ground. It's so alien. > > Nhu > Berkeley CA > Blooms have slowed down a bit but Nerine hybrids are still going plus a > few > Oxalis. > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > >> Hi, >> But it is all over the place >> with more coming up all the time. I took a few pictures for the wiki >> today, but I couldn't get very close and my zoom lens distorts distances. >> >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllis >> >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4474 (20091001) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From contact@bulbargence.com Fri Oct 2 02:45:06 2009 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: late blooming Amaryllis belladonna Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 08:44:59 +0200 Ken, Interesting that you brought up this suject. Some years ago I bought exacly the same 'lot'; I selected out the pink veined plants: they are much smaller and very late flowering (they are of interest for these features). They could be related to the group Bidwell hybrids, but is is just a wild guess. Here the dark pink Amaryllis, those who relied on natural rainfall of mid september, are just finishing off (they ressemble much those of Mary sue). Now we are waiting for the Amaryllis in question to finish off the season. I have spent some time selecting special flowers out of random pollinated sowings, which could be promising. Now when most flwers are gone I still go on selecting on the colour of the stems which a good indication of the intensity of the various pink flowers. Very time consuming longterm affair with the thousands of bulbs growing here. I should ask our experts like Jim Lykos to put a name to the various forms here, but that is once the selling season has slowed down a bit. Greetings Lauw de Jager South of France www.bulbargence.com -----Original Message----- Most of my Amaryllis belladonna and hybrids finished a few weeks ago ... but these just came into bloom the last day or two. Store bought bulbs bought late and discounted to 50 cents ... were advertised as 'White' belladonnas ... http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/3970220054/ [http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/3970220054/] From contact@bulbargence.com Fri Oct 2 02:45:06 2009 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: late blooming Amaryllis belladonna Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 08:44:59 +0200 Ken, Interesting that you brought up this suject. Some years ago I bought exacly the same 'lot'; I selected out the pink veined plants: they are much smaller and very late flowering (they are of interest for these features). They could be related to the group Bidwell hybrids, but is is just a wild guess. Here the dark pink Amaryllis, those who relied on natural rainfall of mid september, are just finishing off (they ressemble much those of Mary sue). Now we are waiting for the Amaryllis in question to finish off the season. I have spent some time selecting special flowers out of random pollinated sowings, which could be promising. Now when most flwers are gone I still go on selecting on the colour of the stems which a good indication of the intensity of the various pink flowers. Very time consuming longterm affair with the thousands of bulbs growing here. I should ask our experts like Jim Lykos to put a name to the various forms here, but that is once the selling season has slowed down a bit. Greetings Lauw de Jager South of France www.bulbargence.com -----Original Message----- Most of my Amaryllis belladonna and hybrids finished a few weeks ago ... but these just came into bloom the last day or two. Store bought bulbs bought late and discounted to 50 cents ... were advertised as 'White' belladonnas ... http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/3970220054/ [http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/3970220054/] From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 2 11:14:28 2009 Message-Id: <20091002151427.C67794C01E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis in bloom Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 08:14:03 -0700 I still remember Diana Chapman writing about the dazzling display of Oxalis she was growing many years ago and I'm having one of my own at the moment with some of the fall bloomers. A very long time ago we had a discussion about when to start winter growing plants into growth. Although California has a Mediterranean climate, our rainy season doesn't start as early as it does in some of the other Mediterranean climates. And often in my coastal climate autumn is warm and sunny. So the question was, do you start watering before it starts to rain. The answers as with many questions on this list were variable. I'd always read about California natives that if they were watered when it was warm, they could rot. Lauw suggested that if you waited too long to start watering some things, they wouldn't bloom so you should start watering earlier. Some things just start into growth at their time regardless and others really do seem to need moisture. What I have found with Oxalis from South Africa is that I have much better luck if I start watering them in August even if this means the fall blooming ones are blooming in some of our warmer days of the year. For many years I had no flowers on my Oxalis melanosticta 'Ken Aslet'. It was reported that there were some clones that didn't bloom well and I thought I had one of them. Still I continued to grow it since it has lovely hairy velvety leaves. Most years I shared my extras with the BX advising it might not bloom well, but had nice leaves. The last three years I've had good bloom. I'm now growing it in a pot that is 9" (22+ cm.) deep and starting to water in August. This year has been the best as it has been flowering for weeks. I just replaced one of my pictures of it on the wiki with one that shows the nice hairy leaves. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisSix#melanosticta In my climate either the deeper pot or the earlier time of starting it into growth or both I suspect is the difference. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From xerantheum@gmail.com Fri Oct 2 12:04:19 2009 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Oxalis in bloom Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 09:03:50 -0700 My Oxalis melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' that I got from Mary Sue didn't bloom last year but they did this year. The leaves are deliciously lined with silver hairs. I am growing them in a 4" pot though (it's only 3" deep (70cm)). I'll have to repot it the coming summer into a deeper pot. My O. polyphylla var. heptaphylla is really putting on a show. I really like the leaves but the flowers are also fantastic. http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/3973200141/ Nhu Berkeley, CA -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > For many years I had no flowers on my Oxalis melanosticta 'Ken > Aslet'. It was reported that there were some clones that didn't bloom > well and I thought I had one of them. Still I continued to grow it > since it has lovely hairy velvety leaves. Most years I shared my > extras with the BX advising it might not bloom well, but had nice > leaves. The last three years I've had good bloom. I'm now growing it > in a pot that is 9" (22+ cm.) deep and starting to water in August. > This year has been the best as it has been flowering for weeks. I > just replaced one of my pictures of it on the wiki with one that > shows the nice hairy leaves. > < > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisSix#melanosticta > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisSix#melanosticta > > From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Fri Oct 2 13:01:47 2009 Message-Id: <3b9284cd0910021001j498234c0h72d1e7b53677990a@mail.gmail.com> From: "J. Agoston" Subject: Colchicum 'Alboplenum' ? 'White Waterlily' Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 19:01:44 +0200 Dear All, I have noticed that C. 'Alboplenum' has a few anthers (most of them malformed). The question is that are those pollens fertile?! Does anybody tried to cross this variety with any of the Colchicums? Waterlily is also double, but I have never observed anthers, why? I thaught 'Alboplenum' (so called 'White Waterlily') is the sport of 'Waterlily'. Bye, Jan Z5a, Hungary From JFlintoff@aol.com Fri Oct 2 13:38:57 2009 Message-Id: <8CC119E4E1A36E5-2528-38281@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: Colchicum 'Alboplenum' ? 'White Waterlily' Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:38:37 -0400 Jan ??? I think Colchicum ' Waterlily' is a cross of the double white C autumnale with C speciosum ' Album' . ?? J.John Flintoff Lake Forest Park, WA, USA Zone 8 From aquaflorasa@telkomsa.net Fri Oct 2 13:55:22 2009 Message-Id: <000001ca4389$791f37b0$7bd17929@Nymphea> From: "Aqua Flora SA" Subject: Newest find Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 19:54:59 +0200 Hi Justin, Definitively not Crinum americanum. Looks more like a C. xdigweedii (C. scabrum x C. americanum), so probably a garden escape. All the best! Pieter van der Walt South Africa -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Pinpoint, and is believed to be clean. From khixson@nu-world.com Fri Oct 2 14:45:25 2009 Message-Id: <4AC648B9.8040005@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:38:49 -0700 Dear Members: > --not only do the plants have to be in active growth, but glyphosate must be administered to the foliage - it's ineffective if sprayed on the stem or roots! I once sprayed Roundup around a young oak, to kill some clumps of perennial grass. The leaves were not sprayed, but some spray did get on the stem. There was no damage to the oak that year, but the next year there were discolored and deformed leaves typical of spray injury. I've seen grape vines that had had grass under them killed by roundup. Again, the leaves of the grapes were not sprayed, but the canes were hit to a minor extent. The grapes were also damaged. A landscaper once told me that dawn redwood (Metasequoia) was damaged when the grass in the rootzone was sprayed. Didn't see it myself, but I don't spray around dawn redwood without taking extreme care. (Dawn redwood has shallow or surface roots). I know people who use a paintbrush to apply Roundup to the stems or root ends of woody shrubs/vines. Apparently it does work, even though it isn't being applied to foliage. There is a place for/need for weedkillers, but caution may be a good idea. Don't spray something you don't want to kill. Ken From jyourch@nc.rr.com Fri Oct 2 15:40:57 2009 Message-Id: <20091002194056.FSEOW.190222.root@cdptpa-web26-z02> From: Jay Yourch Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:40:56 -0400 >-not only do the plants have to be in active growth, but glyphosate must be administered to the foliage - >it's ineffective if sprayed on the stem or roots! This is not correct. Glyphosate binds so well to soil particles that if used properly it's not available to be absorbed by roots growing in same soil. This is not the same thing as saying it's ineffective if sprayed on roots. Spraying any part of the plant you don't want to kill, whether leaves, stems, or surface roots is taking a big risk. Regarding Adam's original question if he sprays Roundup only on the leaves of the Johnson grass, not on the soil, around his dormant bulbs, he'll get the desired result. The Johnson grass will die and the dormant bulbs will be undamaged. Regards, Jay From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Fri Oct 2 15:45:37 2009 Message-Id: From: Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 20:45:29 +0100 Whether using the product under that trade name, and there are others one of which I use for weed control on paths but not in the gardens which are run organically, it is important...immensely important.... to remember that this weed killer is what is known as a systemic weedkiller therefore its use as e.g. Jane has pointed out requires the plants you wish to be dead to be actively photosynthesising i.e. green! The chemical acts, sometimes painfully slowly before you can be sure its working by translocation via the weed foliage down into the plants system i.e. roots where it does its business through cutting off the plants ability to photosynthesise on the above ground parts. Use of this product is effective best from Spring through Summer to Autumn unless you live in substropical regions outwith Temperate or Boreal seasonal growth patterns when it may be used presumably all year around. Providing the bulbs or corms are not showing any foliage above ground it is perfectly safe to spray across their dormant positions, just make sure there are no residual leaf matter showing up as occasionally happens with late starters amongst a collection growing out of sync in which case either remove that foliage or cover it up with a mulch as Jane uses or perhaps an upturned pot which I occassionally have to resort to here. It is IMPERATIVE that when spraying you are certain you will have at least two hours post spraying before it rains otherwise the product runs off despite having a wetting agent incorporated into it. In the event of a 'mistake' where a plant is accidentally sprayed don't panic, just stop for a few moments and wipe the exposed foliage down with fresh water, really well wipe it down, or in extremise cut off the foliage to stop translocation down to the root system if that's possible, if left for more than an hour you will be in some difficulty, or rather your plant will ! Best not to spray if there is any wind that might cause drift, the spray nozzles are designed to produce a fine aerosol and the product will travel further than you imagine, which is another of the reasons that we never use it anywhere except on paths or roads and our car park area. Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 113525 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 2 15:48:13 2009 Message-Id: <000301ca4399$4739ad60$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Colchicum 'Alboplenum' ? 'White Waterlily' Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:48:00 -0400 Jan, Colchicum 'Waterlily' itself is said to have resulted from a cross between Colchicum speciosum 'Album' with a double, white-flowered form of C. autumnale in a effort to get a large double-flowered white colchicum. 'Alboplenum' is not a sport of 'Waterlily'; if anything, it might be the double white autumnale form used to produce 'Waterlily'. However, as you noticed, it has only a few anthers. Bowles recorded another less double white-flowered form of autumnale; and if that form has more anthers, then perhaps it was used to produce 'Waterlily'. It might be worthwhile to re-do these crosses using the white-flowered Colchicum 'Innocence' aka 'byzantinum album' instead of Colchicum speciosum 'Album'. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From ds429@comcast.net Fri Oct 2 15:48:46 2009 Message-Id: <001901ca4399$5bc058b0$13410a10$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:48:47 -0400 Ken wrote: " There is a place for/need for weed killers, but caution may be a good idea. Don't spray something you don't want to kill." I read somewhere that Roundup or glysophate is harmful to amphibians. Since I love frogs and toads - especially in the garden - I avoid Roundup and try to find herbicides that don't contain glysophate. Dell SE Pennsylvania, USA, Zone 6/7 From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Fri Oct 2 15:53:37 2009 Message-Id: <4AC65A3E.8040901@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 12:53:34 -0700 I need some advice about hard water from my well. California well water is often laden with minerals that cause some plants to sicken or die. I am considering adding a filter or ??? to my greenhouse waterline. What kinds of devices will work to filter out the minerals? I have always read that the water softeners commonly used on houses will kill plants. Have some of you experienced this problem? What kind of filter systems might be used instead? Has anyone installed a filter system and if so, what brand name did you use. I am also considering the use of water saved during my rainy season, but I have no idea how much water I use in the greenhouse over a year. Have any of you attempted any of these solutions, and how did you go about it. Thanks for your discussion on this. Marguerite English From Blee811@aol.com Fri Oct 2 16:24:48 2009 Message-Id: From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 16:24:42 EDT In a message dated 10/2/2009 2:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, khixson@nu-world.com writes: I know people who use a paintbrush to apply Roundup to the stems or root ends of woody shrubs/vines. Apparently it does work, even though it isn't being applied to foliage. kMy land slopes down into the woods on three sides and those hillsides were covered in honeysuckle bushes when we first moved here. Our technique was to cut them off close to the ground with the chainsaw and then paint full-strength Round-Up on the cut stems with a paintbrush. There is very little honeysuckle left now. Bill Lee From balberth@yahoo.com Fri Oct 2 16:40:18 2009 Message-Id: <156525.7367.qm@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Albert Huntington Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 13:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Marguerite, I have some experience dealing with hard water when I was on municipal well water in San Jose, CA. Since I was growing some plants which were very sensitive to pretty much ANY minerals in the water, I ended up going with a solution that worked, but was fairly expensive both in terms of dollars and waste water. What I did was install a reverse osmosis filter - this type of filter uses water pressure to force water through a membrane which filters out pretty much everything, including minerals. The flow rate through this type of filters is quite low ( measured in gallons per day ), so it is usually used in combination with a holding tank of some sort. The filter also wastes a lot of water - for every gallon of purified water it generates, it also generates a larger amount of waste water which is not purified. Most hardware stores, some big box stores, and stores catering to orchid growers and aquarium owners would carry a system of this type, and you can find all sorts of information on this through a quick web search. Water softeners simply replace one ion for another - basically substituting sodium compounds for calcium compounds, which changes the hardness of the water, but does not actually purify it. There are also de-ionization filters sold which adsorb calcium ions from water passing through them, but must be replaced and/or recharged very often when you're dealing with hard well water, and are probably uneconomical in your case. What a lot of people do to prevent mineral build-up while on well water is to simply pot in well draining substrates and completely flush the pots on a regular basis. Unfortunately, this method seems to work better for plants which can stand a constantly wet root system, as the minerals won't flush out as well if they don't stay in solution. -- Albert Huntington Sunnyvale, CA Where just a few things are starting to think it's finally Autumn. ----- Original Message ---- From: Marguerite English To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, October 2, 2009 12:53:34 PM Subject: [pbs] Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. I need some advice about hard water from my well. California well water is often laden with minerals that cause some plants to sicken or die. I am considering adding a filter or ??? to my greenhouse waterline. What kinds of devices will work to filter out the minerals? I have always read that the water softeners commonly used on houses will kill plants. Have some of you experienced this problem? What kind of filter systems might be used instead? Has anyone installed a filter system and if so, what brand name did you use. I am also considering the use of water saved during my rainy season, but I have no idea how much water I use in the greenhouse over a year. Have any of you attempted any of these solutions, and how did you go about it. Thanks for your discussion on this. Marguerite English From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri Oct 2 16:47:28 2009 Message-Id: <4AC666DE.6080509@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:47:26 +1300 I am fascinated to see all the messages about oxalis, as the one we have here is a dreadful weed, multiplies by seed, runners, bulbs, any way at all. I once tried a supposed garden one in a pot and was glad I had done so, as it also multiplied madly, so at least could get rid of it. There was a lot of oxalis weed here in the garden when I came here in 2000. First removed every little tuber, bulb by digging over the garden I wanted to develop, then sprayed with Roundup in a strong mix, and from there on planted plants, hand painting any oxalis which came up (with a very useful little applicator bottle which I saved from the Frend stain remover ;o) which meant no overlap on to anything else.) I have not had anything else affected by the Roundup that way. However, having said that, I see that Dell mentions the effect it has on amphibians, and I never thought of that as I also encourage frogs. What will kill kikuya grass and not affect frogs??? Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Fri Oct 2 16:52:25 2009 Message-Id: <4AC66805.8030403@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:52:21 -0700 Thanks, Albert. The reverse osmosis filter sounds interesting, although I didn't realize there was wastewater associated with it. That's helpful to know. Albert Huntington wrote: > Marguerite, > > I have some experience dealing with hard water when From khixson@nu-world.com Fri Oct 2 16:54:31 2009 Message-Id: <4AC66877.7010901@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:54:15 -0700 Hi, Marguerite > I need some advice about hard water from my well. > I have > always read that the water softeners commonly used on houses will kill > plants. A websearch turns up lots of information, for instance > http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/h2oqual/watsys/ae1031w.htm One of the quotes is > For every grain of hardness removed from water, 8 mg/1 (ppm) of sodium is added. This is fairly typical of the old types of water softeners, which mostly used salt (Sodium chloride). There are a number of newer types, and it might be worthwhile to talk to someone in your neighborhood who installs wells and treatment systems for the particular minerals in the water in your area. Saving rainwater: As much as possible, which means a big storage tank. The amount you normally receive as precipitation and the amount of roof area available will determine the size of the tank. If you collect from your roofs, the first rain will probably wash a lot of dust off the roof, so you might be reluctant to save it, or perhaps divert it to a small secondary tank that can be filtered. Ken From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Fri Oct 2 16:57:00 2009 Message-Id: <67F229AF-ED4B-4468-B577-877C7B3960A4@tiscali.it> From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 22:56:43 +0200 Il giorno 02/ott/09, alle ore 22:52, Marguerite English ha scritto: > wastewater it happens when you need to wash the filters... with salts and water which goes lost, I collect rainwater in big plastic cubes and reserve that "old" water for plants that do need a light water Giorgio Pozzi Travedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From balberth@yahoo.com Fri Oct 2 16:58:46 2009 Message-Id: <845676.13266.qm@web30202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Albert Huntington Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Marguerite, You can always use the "waste" water to water something else which is not sensitive to dissolved minerals ... mine went to support a bog garden and the lawn... --Albert ----- Original Message ---- From: Marguerite English To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, October 2, 2009 1:52:21 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Thanks, Albert. The reverse osmosis filter sounds interesting, although I didn't realize there was wastewater associated with it. That's helpful to know. Albert Huntington wrote: > Marguerite, > > I have some experience dealing with hard water when From adam14113@ameritech.net Fri Oct 2 16:58:56 2009 Message-Id: <0CFC7A2671AD4C4789D2E1BA8605DB64@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:58:46 -0500 Thanks everyone . Exactly the kind of information I'd hoped for. I'm feeling quite confident about using it as I'd planned--Small spray bottle. ,, on a windless or low drift day, confined to the bulb areas.. And the paint brush idea will work wonders on the endless European buckthorn that keeps turning up wherever it can find a foothold. Kind regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Use of Roundup > > In a message dated 10/2/2009 2:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > khixson@nu-world.com writes: > > I know people who use a paintbrush to apply Roundup to the > stems or root ends of woody shrubs/vines. Apparently it does work, > even though it isn't being applied to foliage. > > > kMy land slopes down into the woods on three sides and those hillsides > were > covered in honeysuckle bushes when we first moved here. Our technique was > to cut them off close to the ground with the chainsaw and then paint > full-strength Round-Up on the cut stems with a paintbrush. There is very > little > honeysuckle left now. > Bill Lee > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From khixson@nu-world.com Fri Oct 2 17:04:30 2009 Message-Id: <4AC66ACA.30601@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Killing Oxalis Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 14:04:10 -0700 Dear Members Ina wrote: I am fascinated to see all the messages about oxalis, as the one we have here is a dreadful weed, multiplies by seed, runners, bulbs, any way at all. I'm not sure if I've ever posted this, but I have fair success killing Oxalis by spraying with salt and vinegar. One tablespoon salt in a gallon of vinegar. Sprayed on with a little hand sprayer, such as those sold to spray household cleaners, window cleaners, etc. One application will not kill all oxalis plants, but it does kill some, and mostly doesn't hurt other plants. If used in an area which doesn't get much rainfall, the salt buildup would eventually be a problem, but here it isn't. Mulching with several thicknesses of paper or cardboard is also fairly successful, if the oxalis can't crawl out from under the mulch. If it does, just apply more paper/cardboard. Ken From narad@windstream.net Fri Oct 2 17:04:31 2009 Message-Id: <72072D0F-C3EF-41FC-92AB-A5D8C7854F8E@windstream.net> From: "Narad (Richard Eggenberger)" Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 17:04:28 -0400 Remember to read the label carefully. As a friend in Houston once said to me in his unique Texas accent, "You caint bring um futher than dead" Also, the product works on active foliage only when temperatures are above 70 degrees. Narad (Richard Eggenberger) On 2, Oct 2009, at 4:58 PM, Adam Fikso wrote: > Thanks everyone . Exactly the kind of information I'd hoped for. I'm > feeling quite confident about using it as I'd planned--Small spray > bottle. > ,, on a windless or low drift day, confined to the bulb areas.. And > the > paint brush idea will work wonders on the endless European buckthorn > that > keeps turning up wherever it can find a foothold. Kind regards. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 3:24 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Use of Roundup > > >> >> In a message dated 10/2/2009 2:45:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >> khixson@nu-world.com writes: >> >> I know people who use a paintbrush to apply Roundup to the >> stems or root ends of woody shrubs/vines. Apparently it does work, >> even though it isn't being applied to foliage. >> >> >> kMy land slopes down into the woods on three sides and those >> hillsides >> were >> covered in honeysuckle bushes when we first moved here. Our >> technique was >> to cut them off close to the ground with the chainsaw and then paint >> full-strength Round-Up on the cut stems with a paintbrush. There >> is very >> little >> honeysuckle left now. >> Bill Lee >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pameladaz@msn.com Fri Oct 2 17:11:45 2009 Message-Id: From: "Pamela Slate" Subject: Hard Water Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 14:11:41 -0700 Hi Marguerite and all, We have very hard water here. At my garden water intake valve, we have installed an activated carbon (granular) filter cartridge to reduce the salt build up problems. The filters and housings we use are from Tek Supply. While I don’t run tests on the garden water, over the years I’ve seen no salt build up in either raised planters or pots. And I know I would since we have no softened water anywhere on the property. I’ve seen buildup in other situations here. This has been an inexpensive solution. I’ve heard of (and have seen) commercial growers who install huge reverse-osmosis systems for their propagation houses where the tiny plants are bathed almost continually in clean water and nutrients and where any build up would severely damage seedlings. It’s much more costly. Our home has a whole house filtration system that includes a prefilter for sediment and uses a three-stage carbon block system with additional R-O for drinking. In addition to the filtered water in the garden, I also sometimes use vinegar water (about a tsp or two a gallon) when hand watering cactus and succulents to reduce pH….as well as the regular fertilizers. . Pam Contact me privately if you need further information about Tek or our system. Pamela Slate P.O. Box 5316 Carefree AZ 85377 From ds429@comcast.net Fri Oct 2 17:18:34 2009 Message-Id: <000601ca43a5$2e7e62a0$8b7b27e0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 220 Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 17:13:25 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 220" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mary Sue Ittner: 1. Brodiaea elegans- cormlets, this is a very beautiful Brodiaea, see photos on the wiki 2. Calochortus vestae (pink) - these are offsets, not blooming size 3. Dichelostemma volubile - cormlets of this twining pink Dichelostemma that grows through other plants 4. Freesia elimensis - cormlets, Kew says the correct name for this one is Freesia caryophyllacea. Mine were grown from NARGS seed and bloomed for the first time last fall, a long time from seed. Unfortunately, I forgot to photograph and check the identification at that time so can't be sure of the ID, but the corms are definitely Freesia like Freesia fucata - cormlets, blooms in fall for me, white flowers 5. Muscari pallens - originally from Jane McGary, this plant is dormant for a long time for me, small plant, spring blooming, very charming 6. Narcissus cantabricus - descendants from bulbs from Bill Dijk from early or pre BX times, very reliable in my climate, early blooming (often fall) Narcissus, already trying to grow 7. Polyxena pauciflora - probably not blooming size, this Polyxena is aptly named with few small flowers, but is cute in its own way 8. Sparaxis elegans - cormlets 9. Spiloxene capensis - a mix, probably both white and pink 10. Zephyranthes atamasco - descendants from bulbs given me by a woman in IBS when I was still a member of that group and an old list where I complained I could not grow and bloom rain lilies where I live. She said I should be able to grow this one as it is one for the shade and a winter grower. She was correct. It has very large white flowers in spring and for me is dormant in summer. From Ron Vanderhoff: (BULBS) 11.Oxalis melanosticta (syn. Purpurea 'Ken Aslet') Soft, silvery-pubescent leaves are the main show. But, if undisturbed, will eventually produce bright yellow flowers. Fall blooming. 12. Oxalis namaquana ULI54, (rcvd as species) An excellent selection of this species. Deep green, "alfalfa-like" leaves and intense deep yellow flowers. Winter blooming. 13. Oxalis obtusa 'Amber' Typical, easy-to-grow O. obtusa. Free flowering. Resembles color of honey to slightly peachy. Plant obtusa only about 1" deep. Winter to mid spring blooming. 14. Oxalis obtusa 'Deep Salmon' Typical obtusa. Winter to mid spring blooming. 15. Oxalis obtusa 'Raspberry' 16. Oxalis obtusa 'Peaches and Cream' 17. Oxalis obtusa 'Primrose' 18. Oxalis obtusa, large form 19. Oxalis obtusa MV 5516 From Jay Yourch:(BULBS) 20. Hippeastrum blossfeldiae - Tender. 21. Crinum 'Ellen Bosanquet' - 1 huge bulb with offsets attached. Sun to part shade, moist soil, zone 7. 22. Crinum jagus ratrayii - medium and small bulbs. Part sun, moist soil, Zone 8. 23. Crinum jagus vanillodorum - medium and small bulbs. Part sun, moist soil, zone 8. 24. Crinum 'Royal White' - large, medium, and small bulbs. Sun to part sun, moist soil, zone 7. 25. Ammocharis coranica - 1 small bulb. Sun, zone 7. (SEED) 26. Belamcanda 'Hello Yellow' - hundreds of fresh seeds. Sun to part shade, dry or moist soil, zone 5. Hymenocallis 'Tropical Giant' - a dozen or more seeds, various sizes. Sun to part shade, moist soil, zone 7. 27. Aesculus parviflora - 4-5 large seeds. Not a bulb, instead a deciduous shrub with nice compound foliage, beautiful summer flowers and consistent, excellent, yellow autumn color. My 15 year old plants are 7 feet tall and slightly wider, but plants begin flowering when they're just a few years old. It can grow and flower in sun or shade and can withstand drought once established, but best growth occurs in moist, well drained soils. Although native to the southeast United States, it's cold hardy to zone 5. Keep the seeds cool and moist and try to sow them immediately. Do not allow them to dry out because they will lose viability rapidly. I sow mine in containers on potting soil in a cool, but frost free garage. Be careful to keep the ungerminated seeds in a location away from squirrels because they will take and eat them, once germinated they lose interest. During autumn a root will emerge, followed by a short stem, then it will rest during winter, leaves will grow in the spring. Here are a few links for more information, the first link is a blog entry I wrote about the plant in 2007. These seeds are from the plants pictured in the blog entry. http://stevesplantsandrants.blogspot.com/2007/06/bottlebrush-buckeye.html http://www.hort.net/profile/hip/aespa/ http://www.floridata.com/ref/A/aesc_par.cfm From Judy Glattstein: 28. Bulbs of Nerine sarniensis 'Corusca Major' 29. bulbs of Oxalis melanosticta 30. Seed of Mirabilis longiflora 31. Seeds of Mirabilis jalapa ex 'Limelight' Thank you, Mary Sue, Ron, Jay, and Judy !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri Oct 2 17:54:58 2009 Message-Id: <4AC676A7.8050803@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Killing Oxalis Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 10:54:47 +1300 I'm not sure if I've ever posted this, but I have fair success killing Oxalis by spraying with salt and vinegar. One tablespoon salt in a gallon of vinegar. Sprayed on with a little hand sprayer, such as those sold to spray household cleaners, window cleaners, etc. One application will not kill all oxalis plants, but it does kill some, and mostly doesn't hurt other plants. If used in an area which doesn't get much rainfall, the salt buildup would eventually be a problem, but here it isn't. Mulching with several thicknesses of paper or cardboard is also fairly successful, if the oxalis can't crawl out from under the mulch. If it does, just apply more paper/cardboard. Ken Thanks Ken, but mine is anywhere in the garden so have to apply where ever the oxalis is, which means amongst other plants. Which would not be happy with salt and vinegar next to them. However, I do use boiling water and salt on the wandering jew which comes through the fence from the neighbours, pouring it on to their side of the fence (these are non gardeners and don't mind), which works a treat. May use boiling vinegar instead. Wonder how that would go. Ina __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4477 (20091002) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From pameladaz@msn.com Fri Oct 2 18:05:23 2009 Message-Id: From: "Pamela Slate" Subject: Vinegar (was Killing Oxalis) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:05:26 -0700 I saw this product at a trade show a few years ago but never got around to trying it: http://www.deadeye.us/ Does anyone have experience with it? It’s a vinegar product but I don’t know the ingredients list. Pam Pamela Slate P.O. Box 5316 Carefree AZ 85377 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Oct 2 19:43:24 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Colchicum 'Alboplenum' ? 'White Waterlily' Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:34:25 -0700 Jim wrote, >It might be worthwhile to re-do these crosses using the white-flowered >Colchicum 'Innocence' aka 'byzantinum album' instead of Colchicum speciosum >'Album'. However, 'Innocence' (thanks, Jim, for the correct name) does not always stay pure white -- it flushes pink in cool weather. C. speciosum 'Album', however, never develops any pink coloration. 'Innocence' has a short floral tube so it won't fall over in rainy weather, but I find C. s. 'Album' is better planted among something else that holds it up. I have seen (and published) a lovely photo of it naturalized in rough grass. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From puppincuff@cox.net Fri Oct 2 19:37:52 2009 Message-Id: <20091002193744.3DM99.462071.imail@fed1rmwml36> From: Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 16:37:44 -0700 Orchard Supply Hrdware has potassium chloride you can use as a water softener. It's not prohibitively expensive and the potassium is a fertilizer chuck schwartz zone 10 California-- Kenneth Hixson wrote: > Hi, Marguerite > > I need some advice about hard water from my well. > > I have > > always read that the water softeners commonly used on houses will kill > > plants. > > A websearch turns up lots of information, for instance > > > http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/h2oqual/watsys/ae1031w.htm > > One of the quotes is > > For every grain of hardness removed from water, 8 mg/1 (ppm) of sodium is added. > > This is fairly typical of the old types of water softeners, which > mostly used salt (Sodium chloride). There are a number of > newer types, and it might be worthwhile to talk to someone in > your neighborhood who installs wells and treatment systems for > the particular minerals in the water in your area. > > Saving rainwater: As much as possible, which means a > big storage tank. The amount you normally receive as precipitation > and the amount of roof area available will determine the size of the > tank. If you collect from your roofs, the first rain will probably wash > a lot of dust off the roof, so you might be reluctant to save it, or > perhaps divert it to a small secondary tank that can be filtered. > > Ken > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From leo@possi.org Fri Oct 2 20:25:10 2009 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Seed, Bulb, Plant Inventory Software Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 17:25:09 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 Dell Sherk wrote > Did you or someone else say that one could import an Excel spreadsheet > into a database with OpenOffice? I don't know about importing a spreadsheet directly into a database, but Open Office does read MS formats. You could just try it - make a practice copy of the spreadsheet to import. Or, what might be simpler... export the spreadsheet to a plain text file, then import the plain text file to the database. Depending on your software you might have to manually enter database field names. Or, perhaps even easier, because it works between any spreadsheet, database, and plain text editor if the spreadsheet is small enough to fit into the clipboard: Highlight the data-containing portion of the sheet and copy to clipboard (Ctrl-C) then paste into a plain text file (the old NOTEPAD.EXE file works well for this but names are limited to the old DOS 8.3 length.) The spreadsheet rows will be preserved and data in columns will be separated by tabs. If the spreadsheet is too big to fit into the clipboard, do it piece-by-piece by highlighting a number of rows to copy and paste, then go on to the next series of rows. That way you preserve the columns of data. I work between a text file, a scratch spreadsheet and my database when I have a lot of plants to enter into my database. I use an input text file which I cleverly named INPUT.TXT. I made the original write-protected so I can't overwrite it. The original is in my PLANTS folder. I put a shadow of the file on my desktop so I can get to it faster. The file has instructions to me at the top on how to use it, and then a single line containing all the fields in my database: AccessionNumber Genus species Family etc. etc. etc... When it's time to enter plants to the database, I open INPUT.TXT and save it under a new name (usually corresponding to Input20090928.txt) and populate the AccessionNumber column. I use numbers in sequence, so it looks like this: AccessionNumber Genus species Family etc. etc. etc... 1 2 3 4 5.... I didn't design my accession numbers properly. If I had just used incremental numbers I could have used the autofill function of a spreadsheet to populate the numbers. I have to do it mostly by hand in the text file. Next time. I then copy the field names and the accession numbers from the text file to the clipboard and paste the whole thing into the spreadsheet. I wind up with this spreadsheet: AccessionNumber Genus species Family etc. etc. etc... 1 2 3 4 5... Now I can use cut and paste to populate the various fields. For example, if I'm entering irids, I copy Iridaceae to the clipboard, highlight the required boxes in the spreadsheet, and paste. For vendors, addresses, etc. I find the same vendor in my database, open a view with the data in rows rather than the entry form, and copy the required fields. Then I paste this into my scratch spreadsheet. I wind up with something like this: AccessionNumber Genus species Family etc. etc. etc... 1 Freesia alba Iridaceae etc etc etc 2 Freesia corymbosa Iridaceae etc etc etc 3 Freesia refracta Iridaceae etc etc etc 4 Freesia viridis Iridaceae etc etc etc 5... Once they're all done I copy the whole thing, column labels and data, from the scratch spreadsheet to the clipboard, and then paste the whole thing into the text file. I delete everything from the text file except what I just pasted. Then I save and close the file. I go to my database and use the import function to import from a plain text file. I specify fields are separated by tabs and the text file column headings represent database field names. Then I import. This saves a lot of time over manual entry. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Fri Oct 2 20:29:36 2009 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Xerophyta retinervis Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 17:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Hello Justin, Thanks for the detailed information on X. r. I'll try again. > I hope that when you forgot to water that you did not throw it out! It > is a resurrection plant and will turn totally brown and dead looking when > dried out. They were little tiny seedlings, barely green spots. When the dried out they really were dead. I did try watering again but nothing. I'm still trying to figure out why yours grew fast but mine sat without growing for over a year. Maybe more sun. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 2 20:45:27 2009 Message-Id: <000801ca43c2$c9ff5230$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Pacific BX 220 Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 20:45:21 -0400 I would like to second Steve's enthusiastic remarks on Aesculus parviflora. Once you've seen one in bloom, you'll no doubt wonder, as I often have, why this native shrub is not in every neighborhood with a suitable climate. There is nothing else like it in our garden flora. And it's comparatively quick and easy from the large seeds. Grab them now while you have the chance - you're not likely to find it at the local "nursery" center! Jim McKenney From loujost@yahoo.com Fri Oct 2 21:07:32 2009 Message-Id: <120680.32231.qm@web63407.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Round-Up Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 18:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Hi Adam, For what its worth, I have been using Round-Up and other glyphosate products for years around my bulbs, to kill off invasive African grasses. The areas I have to cover are too great to use paintbrushes. I use a small several-gallon sprayer which I can direct quite well. Collateral damage is minimal. The important thing is to remember that glyphosate only breaks down in the presence of oxygen, so it is important not to let it get into solution in the soil, where it might last long enough to kill something you like. Just spray the foliage, not the soil, and don't do it when there is a chance of rain. In our rain forest reserves in Ecuador we use Round-up to kill off grasses in pastures that we want to reforest. We have done this on a very large scale with no ill effects. It is wonderful to see the rain forest trees seeding themselves into the pastures the moment the grass dies. I am a big fan of glyphosate! Lou From loujost@yahoo.com Fri Oct 2 21:23:14 2009 Message-Id: <507034.29504.qm@web63402.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Round-Up and frogs Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 18:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Ina, I just noticed your post on the effect of Round-up on frogs. We actually have discovered new endemic species of frogs on our reserves, so this is a matter we are concerned about. Next year a herpetologist will study the effects on our sites. But so far we have not noticed any problems in the areas we have been spraying. We are careful to spray only the foliage, not the soil, so that the chemical does not get into streams. That is important. Best, Lou From khixson@nu-world.com Fri Oct 2 22:04:56 2009 Message-Id: <4AC6B127.4060502@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Killing Oxalis Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:04:23 -0700 Ina wrote: > May use boiling vinegar instead. Wonder how that would go. Don't boil it in the house--or have a fume hood that really works. Ken From zigur@hotmail.com Fri Oct 2 22:34:23 2009 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 19:34:22 -0700 I would suggest you have your well water analysed to find out what the potential problems are. You will then know whether simple acidification is all that is needed. Hard water is not necessarily bad for plants, but alkaline water can be. T > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 12:53:34 -0700 > From: meenglis@meenglis.cts.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. > > I need some advice about hard water from my well. > > California well water is often laden with minerals that cause some > plants to sicken or die. I am considering adding a filter or ??? to my > greenhouse waterline. > > What kinds of devices will work to filter out the minerals? I have > always read that the water softeners commonly used on houses will kill > plants. Have some of you experienced this problem? What kind of filter > systems might be used instead? Has anyone installed a filter system and > if so, what brand name did you use. I am also considering the use of > water saved during my rainy season, but I have no idea how much water I > use in the greenhouse over a year. Have any of you attempted any of > these solutions, and how did you go about it. Thanks for your discussion > on this. > > Marguerite English > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat Oct 3 00:08:50 2009 Message-Id: <4AC6CE51.5020701@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Killing Oxalis Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:08:49 +1300 Thanks Ken, I think I will stick with the boiling water. Ina Ina wrote: > May use boiling vinegar instead. Wonder how that would go. Don't boil it in the house--or have a fume hood that really works. Ken From tom@evolution-plants.com Sat Oct 3 05:02:07 2009 Message-Id: <4D9DF8A6-78EF-4A4C-AC03-5075D060CEDF@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Seed, Bulb, Plant Inventory Software Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 09:59:43 +0100 A couple of years ago I spent quite a lot of time investigating various relational database possibilities, aware that having made a choice I was unlikely to want to change my mind. In the end I went for Filemaker, a database program similar to Microsoft Access in concept but much easier for a layman to work with. It's available in Mac and Windows versions (important for me, because I'm a Mac devotee). Anyone who is contemplating purchasing a database program should at least consider Filemaker as an alternative to Access or the various open source alternatives. For what it's worth, the JC Raulston Arboretum database manager, who has long experience of both, told me recently that she regards Filemaker as vastly superior to Access for horticultural applications. Her boss, who dislikes computers, agreed. Tasks like importing and exporting text or Excel files are extremely simple and, once you have filled it with data, using the database to generate reports (e.g. 'give me a list of all blue-flowered bulbs, acquired through PBS, flowering between March and May' is straightforward). I'd recommend it highly and would add that a good relational database can become an immensely powerful tool over time, if the data it contains are accurate. Email me privately if you have specific questions and I'd be happy to answer them if I can. Tom, Zone 8 (Nerine in full flower, Colchicum going over and autumn Crocus species starting) From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sat Oct 3 05:13:20 2009 Message-Id: <005801ca4409$bd75f860$0401a8c0@MAINPC> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Colchicum 'Alboplenum' ? 'White Waterlily' Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 10:13:15 +0100 Jim McKenney wrote: >It might be worthwhile to re-do these crosses using the white-flowered Colchicum 'Innocence' aka 'byzantinum album' instead of Colchicum speciosum 'Album'. < Possibly, but Colchicum byzantinum is an ancient sterile hybrid, and 'Innocence' is presumably a sport from it: I can't imagine that a change of colour has restored fertility. John Grimshaw Dr. John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP From ds429@comcast.net Sat Oct 3 07:56:03 2009 Message-Id: <004c01ca4420$7d695de0$783c19a0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 220 CLOSED Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 07:56:06 -0400 Wow, this one went fast! Packages will go out sometime next week. Enjoy, Dell From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Oct 3 10:18:32 2009 Message-Id: <000301ca4434$63587490$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Colchicum 'Alboplenum' ? 'White Waterlily' Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 10:18:32 -0400 John Grimshaw wrote: “but Colchicum byzantinum is an ancient sterile hybrid, and 'Innocence' is presumably a sport from it: I can't imagine that a change of colour has restored fertility.” If it is true that ‘Innocence’ is a sport of Colchicum byzantinum, then that is probably true. However, I’m sure I’m not the first person to notice that ‘Innocence’ is hardly what one would expect to get in a white-flowered sport of Colchicum byzantinum. The flowers of ‘Innocence’ (to my eyes at least) do not resemble those of Colchicum byzantinum much. For one thing, they are much larger. Furthermore, there seems to be ambiguity about how this name Colchicum byzantinum is used, at least in the trade. Many of us, myself included, expect the term Colchicum byzantinum to mean the sterile clone known since at least the middle of the seventeenth century, a plant with enormous pleated leaves and comparatively small flowers with two salient characteristics – the purple or crimson tips of the stigmata and the broader, slightly incurved outer tepals. In other words, the plant John Grimshaw means. On the other hand, there is that illustration in Clusius which strongly suggests C. byzantinum except for one thing: it has seed capsules. I believe that this image has prompted some persons to regard all of the big, pleated leaved, early-flwoering non-tesstllated Colchcium as Colchiicum byzantinum. Bowles treated the sterile form as a clone and noted its close resemblance to C. cilicicum. Modern taxonomists vary in their treatment of these plants. For instance, the 15th edition of Zander, Handwörterbuch der Pflanzennamen, 1994, the standard German work on the nomenclature of domesticated plants, cites Colchicum byzantinum Ker-Gawl. and Colchicum byzantinum var. cilicicum Boiss. Thus, in this arrangement, the species byzantinum covers both the old sterile form and the presumably fertile forms known as cilicicum. When plants are offered simply as C. byzantinum, either sterile byzantinum or cilicicum might be provided with equal propriety because the name C. byzantinum in this arrangement refers not specifically to the sterile clone but to a species with at least two variants, byzantinum and cilicicum. For the same reason, someone selecting material from these plants might be tempted to call such selections Colchicum byzantinum without further designation. I have not checked the current edition of Zander to see what arrangement is now used. All of this is probably inducing terminal boredom in some of you, but it is of interest to me for practical reasons. Among the early acquisitions of nominal Colchicum byzantinum here is a plant which has been growing in my garden for perhaps forty years or more. At first glance it seems to be sterile C. byzantinum. It has the pleated, veratrum-like foliage, the crimson tip to the stigmata, early flowers bigger than those of C. autumnale but smaller and earlier than those of the big garden hybrids – it’s just the thing which might be sent out as Colchcium autumnale ‘Major’, said to be s synonym of sterile C. byzantinum. In all the years this plant has grown here, it has never set seed. I have seen this same plant in other local gardens. In fact, only earlier this week the Collections Manager of a local public collection sought my help in identifying the colchicums growing under his care – and most of the plants we saw answered to this plant. Some of these were in plantings dating back more than thirty years (in fact, to the approximate time I was acquiring my plants); that highlights another characteristic of this plant – it is very reliable under local conditions. Most colchicums are no more reliable under local conditions than tulips. However, whatever it is, it does not seem to be the old sterile Colchicum byzantinum. For one thing, the flowers are a bit bigger. And they open widely, unlike those of C. byzantinum whose outer tepals incurve a bit and are broader. This plant can be seen on the PBS wiki – it’s the one in the second group of photos, the ones taken by Mark Wilcox, a Washington D.C. gardener. I’ve distributed my plants in the past – I hope he did not get them from me! The simple solution to this dilemma is to assume that my plants are C. cilicicum, and for a while that’s what I did. But since they never set seed, I have doubts about that, too. I frankly doubt that there is a direct connection between the old sterile Colchicum byzantinum and the garden plant now being called ‘Innocence’. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sat Oct 3 11:07:43 2009 Message-Id: <001701ca443b$44779f90$0401a8c0@MAINPC> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Colchicum byzantinum and friends Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 16:07:46 +0100 A number of points to reply to Jim McKenney's response. 1) Jim does not see the similarity between normal C. byzantinum (the ancient clone, certainly not a species) and C. 'Innocence' - I do, and indeed the images on the wiki page show, to my mind, their extremely close similarities. Indeed, one flower of 'Innocence' actually shows a streak of pink that strongly suggests to me that it is some sort of chimaeral sport from byzantinum. I've grown C. byzantinum for nearly 30 years, and known 'Innocence' for 25+, and all my observations suggest their close relationship. 2) The 'other byzantinum' Jim describes, with longer but narrower segments, is also commonly grown here, without a satisfactory name, though it is sometimes erroneously labelled C. laetum. I see that the RHS Plant Finder refers "C. laetum misapplied" to C. parnassicum but on what grounds I don't know. It is an excellent free-flowering plant, which I've also grown for 30 years - came as a novelty bulb to flower dry on the windowsill. 3) The relationship between C. byzantinum with C. cilicicum is curious: they do seem to be connected, but it would be interesting to see what DNA analysis of the two taxa revealed. It has to be said that Colchicum nomenclature and its relationship to the actual entities is a nightmare, and the presence of ancient sterile plants masquerading as species doesn't help. John Grimshaw Dr. John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From hansennursery@coosnet.com Sat Oct 3 11:31:01 2009 Message-Id: <83D1ABB9BDD74BD0964F5704D37C7C7E@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 08:30:40 -0700 Regarding Richard's comment that Roundup will not work below 70 degrees. I'm sorry, but my experience over many years proves otherwise. 70 degrees on the southwest coast of Oregon doesn't happen but once in a blue moon, if then. I have used Roundup once or twice a year for years and it works very well, if slowly, even if used when the temps are in the 50s. As others have mentioned, it's important not to spray when there is potential for rain. When Roundup first came out, the requirement was for waiting six hours before rainfall. The labels now state two hours. Because of the lower temps here, I still hold to the six-hour rule as a precautionary measure (due to high humidity at times). Robin Hansen Southwest Oregon maybe 58 today... From narada12@gmail.com Sat Oct 3 12:54:30 2009 Message-Id: <2FA7E302-C36F-4C2F-81EE-989BAB1935E4@gmail.com> From: "Eggenberger, Richard Narad" Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 12:54:18 -0400 Thank you for this valuable information, Robin. The literature has stated for years not to apply under 70 degrees but I will now do so. Richard On 3, Oct 2009, at 11:30 AM, Robin Hansen wrote: > Regarding Richard's comment that Roundup will not work below 70 > degrees. I'm sorry, but my experience over many years proves > otherwise. 70 degrees on the southwest coast of Oregon doesn't > happen but once in a blue moon, if then. > > I have used Roundup once or twice a year for years and it works very > well, if slowly, even if used when the temps are in the 50s. As > others have mentioned, it's important not to spray when there is > potential for rain. When Roundup first came out, the requirement > was for waiting six hours before rainfall. The labels now state two > hours. Because of the lower temps here, I still hold to the six- > hour rule as a precautionary measure (due to high humidity at times). > > Robin Hansen > Southwest Oregon > maybe 58 today... > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Oct 3 13:26:36 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Seed, Bulb, Plant Inventory Software Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 10:19:20 -0700 Tom wrote, At 01:59 AM 10/3/2009, you wrote: >A couple of years ago I spent quite a lot of time investigating >various relational database possibilities, aware that having made a >choice I was unlikely to want to change my mind. In the end I went >for Filemaker, a database program similar to Microsoft Access in >concept but much easier for a layman to work with. It's available in >Mac and Windows versions (important for me, because I'm a Mac >devotee). Anyone who is contemplating purchasing a database program >should at least consider Filemaker as an alternative to Access or the >various open source alternatives. For what it's worth, the JC >Raulston Arboretum database manager, who has long experience of both, >told me recently that she regards Filemaker as vastly superior to >Access for horticultural applications. Her boss, who dislikes >computers, agreed. I agree. I have used Filemaker for about 15 years ( I still am using an older version, and it has faithfully followed me from version to version of Windows). It is available from the Claris Corporation, but it's not cheap. I haven't tried exporting the files to Excel, which I find awkward to use, but I do export them to Word documents sometimes, although you can print them directly from Filemaker in various layouts. I find the design of layouts pretty intuitive, and you can easily make several numbered layouts and then just switch with a single click to display the database in whichever one suits your present purpose. The only problem I have with it is that when you want to print in columnar format, it will not always print all the text in a field that has to wrap; perhaps a newer version will have solved this problem. If you're wondering why I would bother to print it at all, I do so in order to have a paper copy that I can refer to when inventorying my bulb collection, something I'm doing right now. I actually lost the bulb database when my previous computer fried last December, but fortunately I had sent a copy of the database a few years ago to John Lonsdale, who, being the computer expert he is, still had it, and was able to send it back to me. (Another good thing about Filemaker is that the databases don't use much memory.) I had to re-enter it, but this has been instructive and I've been able to add information that I didn't anticipate wanting originally. It's very useful to go back to the actual plants and inventory them annually, even if you don't have a nursery. You can think about what has survived or not, and why. And you can keep track of what you've moved for one reason or another (my database has a field for what section of my bulb frames each item is in), so if someone wants a certain dormant bulb, you can probably find it. Of course, when I move my bulbs to a bulb house next year, the location field will all have to be changed, but I can mark a paper copy as I plant them; I'll have to put stakes with an alphanumeric grid on the raised beds I'm planning in the bulb house. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Oct 3 13:26:37 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Colchicum byzantinum and friends Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 10:25:59 -0700 John Grimshaw wrote, 2) The 'other byzantinum' Jim describes, with longer but narrower segments, >is also commonly grown here, without a satisfactory name, though it is >sometimes erroneously labelled C. laetum. I see that the RHS Plant Finder >refers "C. laetum misapplied" to C. parnassicum but on what grounds I don't >know. It is an excellent free-flowering plant, which I've also grown for 30 >years - came as a novelty bulb to flower dry on the windowsill. Is there, then, an actual C. laetum? I have a plant under this name, acquired from a Dutch wholesaler, but it is quite different from what I have under the name C. parnassicum. I suppose my plant is the same as John's "excellent free-flowering plant," as it makes quite a show, despite its narrow segments. It is a good performer in the open garden here in western Oregon and will be an important element in the Colchicum bed I plan for my next garden, where I hope to combine the big colchicums with Ceratostigma plumbaginoides if I can just figure out the trick to propagating the latter. (It ought to be a no-brainer, but nothing I try results in a quantity of viable plants.) Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From khixson@nu-world.com Sat Oct 3 14:30:07 2009 Message-Id: <4AC79826.6030603@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 11:29:58 -0700 Narad wrote: >The literature has > stated for years not to apply under 70 degrees In the USA, it is of course illegal to use herbicides or pesticides except as the label directs. That said, Robin is right, Roundup will kill plants at temperatures lower than 50F. It may take a lot longer--two months or more instead of a few days. Ken From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Sat Oct 3 14:57:00 2009 Message-Id: <4C898AE0662F4E5EAA107F564933C63B@homepc> From: Subject: Aesculus Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 19:54:32 +0100 A brief note on this genus, due to the insane importation of trees and shrubs and much else from around the world, specifically from China where species within common genera found in Europe and North America are resistant to these viral and insect parasites, etc, enjoy your A. parviflora which we have here too for as lone as you may because a dire situation is not raging across Europe, imported from plants grown in the East and inexorably making it way north in my direction. A very dear friend who has a wonderful collection of species in this genus, perhaps the best in Europe and located in northern England told me when he came here recently on his annual Scottish salmon fishing pilgrimage that he thinks it already in his arboreta and I should keep an eye out for it. Fortunately we are sufficiently far enough north and away from potential infectors combined with everything either grown from seed or quarantined elsewhere we MIGHT get lucky. I think from memory this problem is one of the Phytophora species and related to the one which arrived from a similar source into North America and is wiping out your western Oakwood's, that one is now also in Europe and affecting Rhododendron, Fagus, Acer and much more in south western England, even Scotland's iconic Heather - Calluna vulgaris, as well as along the Atlantic coastline right up into soem of the famous gardens in western Scotland. The next thing our government has warned us about is the Citrus Longhorn Beetle - Anolophora chinensis No guesses where it came from? The idiots are in charge of the environment Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 113755 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Sat Oct 3 21:56:21 2009 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Colchicum byzantinum and friends Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 21:56:04 -0400 Colchicum laetum hort. has been given the name 'Pink Star'. It is considered by some to be a selection of C. byzantinum. Plants I have acquired from Holland under the name C. laetum have proven to be close to C. byzantinum, complete with hooked crimson stigmas. They depart from the latter in some ways though -- for one thing the corms are smaller. This has puzzled me somewhat, as the corms of C. laetum hort. are supposed to be similar in size to those of typical C. byzantinum. Additionally, my C. laetum/'Pink Star' does not flower earlier than C. byzantinum, as it's supposed to. I sometimes wonder whether there are several clones of C. byzantinum in cultivation, and I have something different from both typical C. byzantinum and 'Pink Star'. Russell At 01:25 PM 10/3/2009, you wrote: >Is there, then, an actual C. laetum? I have a plant under this name, >acquired from a Dutch wholesaler, but it is quite different from what >I have under the name C. parnassicum. I suppose my plant is the same >as John's "excellent free-flowering plant," as it makes quite a show, >despite its narrow segments. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Sat Oct 3 22:21:16 2009 Message-Id: <4AC80696.1030908@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 19:21:10 -0700 Thanks to all of you who offered thoughts on this topic. I was actually researching for two places: my brother whose (desert location) well is alkaline and who has a number of gorgeous camelias, begonias and a few epiphyllums. He's the one who will be adding the filter system to the line going into his shadehouse. And my own well which is high in calcium and iron, and I am considering whether to look at filters. More likely I am going to collect rainwater from my roof into a tank. My project will be slowly developed over the next couple of years. Your suggestions and references have given me a number of places to look, and I appreciate your help. Marguerite English. From kjblack@pacbell.net Sun Oct 4 00:12:25 2009 Message-Id: <26535.99364.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Oh No! A Boophone disaster! Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 21:12:23 -0700 (PDT) I was a bit alarmed when about half of my 2-year old seedlings, the result of crossing a Winter growing Boophone disticha with a Summer growing bulb of the same species, started declining.  Leaf growth had stopped and withered ... and the bulbs seemed to be loose in the container's soil.  I had been watering very lightly during the summer, except I gave them a thorough drenching a month ago before making a trip away ... evidently, a big mistake!  The weather was apparently hot while I was away with many days in the upper 80s and low 90s, and continued after my return until recently.  Removing the soil from the 'loose' bulbs revealed the roots had rotted.  Roots of those that remained solidly fixed in the soil appeared OK.  All my seedlings of the reverse cross ... Summer X Winter growers ... appear to be OK also.  I plan to dust these with Sulphur and place in dry soil, in hopes they will reroot.  Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/3978413995/   Ken San Diego From jacobknecht@gmail.com Sun Oct 4 00:42:16 2009 Message-Id: <2f42069d0910032141q216977eejf1b089c8bb4bd1fa@mail.gmail.com> From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Oh No! A Boophone disaster! Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 18:41:48 -1000 Hi Ken, Your zeal for propagation is fantastic. I experienced a similar problem on my *Clinanthus variegatus* 'yellow' that had grown vigorously for years and filling its 1 gallon pot with pups and roots. Late this spring I noticed a rather rapid decline and then the bulbs became loose. I was surprised to see that nearly all had lost their roots to some sort of rot, caused by breakdown of its growing medium. I think the 'composting' of my potting medium [even though it was 50% black cinder (scoria, lava rock)] was due to and was accelerated by the high humidity and high levels of rainfall that I have in the location I have been living in for the past 10 months (average 70% relative humidity & 3,050mm/120 in pa precipitation). Thankfully the rot had not yet damaged the basal plates of the bulbs so I cleaned their bases and dipped them in a Daconil/Dithane (fungicide) solution and let them dry and callous for a week or two before re-potting into pure pumice. It took a few months of watering very sparingly and being patient for the bulb to resume leaf growth only a week ago. Because potting media can go sour very quickly under warm and humid conditions, I am now in the process of moving all my plants belonging to Amaryllidaceae, Hyacinthaceae and Themidaceae into pure pumice or into others that are high in pumice and other non-organic components to prevent this in the future. Some may consider my choice of media a tad on the extreme, but the choice is in harmony with my growing conditions. As long as my plants are in active growth and have excellent drainage and the roots have sufficient gas exchange, it hardly matters how much it rains. Although losing so many roots may set your *Boophone* back, as long as their basal plates are intact, I think they will be fine. However I would repot them into a medium that has a high gas exchange to moisture retention ratio, and water sparingly until they have shown a positive response with new leaf growth (usually predicated by new roots). Jacob Uluwehi Knecht Honolulu, Hawai'i 2009/10/3 Ken > I was a bit alarmed when about half of my 2-year old seedlings, the result > of crossing a Winter growing Boophone disticha with a Summer growing bulb of > the same species, started declining. Leaf growth had stopped and withered > ... and the bulbs seemed to be loose in the container's soil. I had been > watering very lightly during the summer, except I gave them a thorough > drenching a month ago before making a trip away ... evidently, a big > mistake! The weather was apparently hot while I was away with many days in > the upper 80s and low 90s, and continued after my return until recently. > Removing the soil from the 'loose' bulbs revealed the roots had rotted. > Roots of those that remained solidly fixed in the soil appeared OK. All my > seedlings of the reverse cross ... Summer X Winter growers ... appear to be > OK also. I plan to dust these with Sulphur and place in dry soil, in hopes > they will reroot. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/3978413995/ > > Ken > San Diego > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From kjblack@pacbell.net Sun Oct 4 01:12:13 2009 Message-Id: <326802.95948.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Oh No! A Boophone disaster! Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 22:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Thank you, Jacob!   I will take your advice and repot in a mostly pumice medium, most likely with no organic material.  These had been in a homemade soil mix of about 40% DG, 40% perlite, 10% local (clayish) soil and 10% home-made fine compost.  I will leave out local soil and compost ... what do you think of perlite as an component with pumice?  Coastal San Diego is usually relatively cool, but I should have been more aware of the hot humid weather that can occur here in late summer.   Ken  From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Re: [pbs] Oh No! A Boophone disaster! (... was due to and was accelerated by the high humidity ... ... and let them dry and callous for a week or two before re-potting into pure pumice.  It took a few months of watering very sparingly and being patient for the bulb to resume leaf growth only a week ago. Although losing so many roots may set your *Boophone* back, as long as their basal plates are intact, I think they will be fine.  However I would repot them into a medium that has a high gas exchange to moisture retention ratio, and water sparingly until they have shown a positive response with new leaf growth (usually predicated by new roots). From zigur@hotmail.com Sun Oct 4 01:39:54 2009 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Oh No! A Boophone disaster! Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 22:39:45 -0700 Ken, I grow almost all my plants in 90% pumice 10% sand/clay, no organics. My collection turned into a mushroom farm when the winter rains started in SoCal. The 40% perlite mix you mention would be too wet for my preference. My seed mix is 90% pumice 10% perlite, and I do quite well with everything from Lachenalia to Aloe to Cyphostemma to Brunsvigia. T > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 22:12:12 -0700 > From: kjblack@pacbell.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Oh No! A Boophone disaster! > > Thank you, Jacob! > > I will take your advice and repot in a mostly pumice medium, most likely with no organic material. These had been in a homemade soil mix of about 40% DG, 40% perlite, 10% local (clayish) soil and 10% home-made fine compost. I will leave out local soil and compost ... what do you think of perlite as an component with pumice? Coastal San Diego is usually relatively cool, but I should have been more aware of the hot humid weather that can occur here in late summer. > > Ken > From: Jacob Knecht > Subject: Re: [pbs] Oh No! A Boophone disaster! > > > (... was due to and was accelerated by the high humidity ... > ... > and let them dry and callous for a week or two before > re-potting into pure pumice. It took a few months of watering very > sparingly and being patient for the bulb to resume leaf growth only a week > ago. > > Although losing so many roots may set your *Boophone* back, as long as their > basal plates are intact, I think they will be fine. However I would repot > them into a medium that has a high gas exchange to moisture retention ratio, > and water sparingly until they have shown a positive response with new leaf > growth (usually predicated by new roots). > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jacobknecht@gmail.com Sun Oct 4 02:06:25 2009 Message-Id: <2f42069d0910032305q2356182ag8fac9bb5a1d68ca8@mail.gmail.com> From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Oh No! A Boophone disaster! Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 20:05:56 -1000 Aloha Ken, Thankfully coastal California (including San Diego) at least have cooler night-time temperatures than in most other parts of the US during the summer. Here in my climate the diurnal temperature differential averages around 15°F (9.5°C), certainly less than it swings in southern California, especially in winter months. I think that once your seedlings have completely filled their new containers with a robust root system, you can certainly add more organic matter - all depending on how much water they will be getting and/or how fast they will be able to dry out between waterings. I understand that you grow many of your bulbs in the ground and one of the many advantages with this is that the capillary action of the surrounding soil will help moderate moisture levels (especially if the native soil is a well-drained loam). To me it seems that many of the African Amaryllidaceae native to areas with pronounced dry seasons (nearly all of them are) possibly depend on their extensive long-lived perennial root systems just as much *if not much more*than their actual bulbs for nutrient and water storage. When I receive rootless bulbs as imports, I jokingly (and quite incorrectly) refer to them as 'meristems'. My point in bringing this up is that if roots are lost to conditions conducive to root rot and/or related opportunistic pathogenic infections is that the medium used to get bulbs to regrow roots in 'triage conditions' may not be the same as that you might grow them in long-term. I agree with Tim's comment. All of the winter rainfall bulbs that Nhu and I grow in California, especially the ones that come from very dry regions such as Namaqualand and the Atacama, are potted in media that feature 10% or less organic components (oak leaf mould is great). Losing a decade's worth of roots on a rare, valuable or simply beautiful* Boophone* or *Brunsvigia* is simply too much to risk using potting mix that may break down faster than these species tolerate re-potting without setbacks. Other growers on our list may have more to add with respect to perlite vs. pumice, but generally the advantage of pumice over perlite is that pumice is heavier and more sound structurally. Thus it tends not to float or compact as easily, and I understand that perlite is more moisture retentive than pumice. O/T: Maurice Levin of A&A Cycads in North Hollywood, California often employs a mix of 1:1 pumice and perlite for re-establishing offsetts, newly-dug or imported cycad caudexes, and I have done the same with good results. Years later once they are established, more organic material can be added when there is less danger of too much moisture present when a newly disturbed plant (or bulb) is more vulnerable to rot. I think this example can be applicable to bulbs that are particular about moisture and root disturbance. I'm sure your young bulbs will return to rude health with some time and care. :) Jacob Uluwehi Knecht Honolulu, Hawai'i 2009/10/3 Ken > Thank you, Jacob! > > I will take your advice and repot in a mostly pumice medium, most likely > with no organic material. These had been in a homemade soil mix of about > 40% DG, 40% perlite, 10% local (clayish) soil and 10% home-made fine > compost. I will leave out local soil and compost ... what do you think of > perlite as an component with pumice? Coastal San Diego is usually > relatively cool, but I should have been more aware of the hot humid weather > that can occur here in late summer. > > Ken > From: Jacob Knecht > Subject: Re: [pbs] Oh No! A Boophone disaster! > > > (... was due to and was accelerated by the high humidity ... > ... > and let them dry and callous for a week or two before > re-potting into pure pumice. It took a few months of watering very > sparingly and being patient for the bulb to resume leaf growth only a week > ago. > > Although losing so many roots may set your *Boophone* back, as long as > their > basal plates are intact, I think they will be fine. However I would repot > them into a medium that has a high gas exchange to moisture retention > ratio, > and water sparingly until they have shown a positive response with new leaf > growth (usually predicated by new roots). > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From tom@evolution-plants.com Sun Oct 4 05:27:26 2009 Message-Id: From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophone disaster!) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 10:25:00 +0100 There was an interesting article in the most recent issue of The Plantsman (8, 3, p. 189-191) reporting great success growing Fritillaria from seed to maturity, without any repotting, in pure Seramis, a proprietary expanded clay product from Germany. The author, Paul Cumbleton, reported that the medium is apparently NOT successful with winter growing South African bulbs perhaps because, he speculated, the feeding regime is hard to get right. I wonder whether anyone else has tried Seramis or another expanded clay material with genera other than Fritillaria and, if so, with what results? On a related point, I wonder if anyone with experience of using it would advise me which grade or particle size of pumice to use for horticultural applications. I've never used it but am keen to experiment with it after reading the recent correspondence on Boophone and other SA Amaryllidaceae. Tom, Zone 8 (Boophone seedlings currently doing well in a coir/ perlite mix) From allen@repashy.com Sun Oct 4 10:46:29 2009 Message-Id: <4AC8B533.8050608@repashy.com> From: Allen Repashy Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophone disaster!) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 07:46:11 -0700 I have been growing Boophone and Brunsvigia seedlings.. actually some of the same Boophone that Ken is talking about (I got a few of these seedlings from him two years ago) in a mixture of 80% Turface MVP, 10% Local DG, 10% compost...... It has worked very well for me. I am now pushing my luck with some Gethyllis grandiflora in this mix. I spritzed the pots through the summer on my winter growers without problems.. Turface is a calcined clay product sold for Infield amendment. Allen Tom Mitchell wrote: > There was an interesting article in the most recent issue of The > Plantsman (8, 3, p. 189-191) reporting great success growing > Fritillaria from seed to maturity, without any repotting, in pure > Seramis, a proprietary expanded clay product from Germany. The > author, Paul Cumbleton, reported that the medium is apparently NOT > successful with winter growing South African bulbs perhaps because, > he speculated, the feeding regime is hard to get right. I wonder > whether anyone else has tried Seramis or another expanded clay > material with genera other than Fritillaria and, if so, with what > results? > > On a related point, I wonder if anyone with experience of using it > would advise me which grade or particle size of pumice to use for > horticultural applications. I've never used it but am keen to > experiment with it after reading the recent correspondence on > Boophone and other SA Amaryllidaceae. > > Tom, Zone 8 (Boophone seedlings currently doing well in a coir/ > perlite mix) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Oct 4 13:18:19 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophone disaster!) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 10:18:01 -0700 Tom wrote, On a related point, I wonder if anyone with experience of using it >would advise me which grade or particle size of pumice to use for >horticultural applications. I've never used it but am keen to >experiment with it after reading the recent correspondence on >Boophone and other SA Amaryllidaceae. I live where horticultural pumice is readily available. In general we can get two grades, washed and unwashed. Most nurseries use the washed product and mix it with composted fine bark, which is also very cheap and lightweight. Because I grow summer-dormant bulbs, I avoid using bark in the mix because I think it hosts microorganisms that also attack the bulbs, or at least their tunics. The washed product, which has a fairly large average particle size (I think about 4 to 5 mm), will "float" to the top if mixed with heavier components, such as the coarse sand I also use, so I prefer the unwashed product, which has particles from about 7 mm down to dust. I think the fines in it make the significant nutrients in pumice more available to the plants. Not everyone agrees that having fines of any kind in a potting mix is desirable, however; you do have to manage your watering very carefully so as not to waterlog the mix. Having maintained many of my bulbs in this mix for more than 15 years, I like it anyway. I don't know if the unwashed (unscreened) product is available anywhere outside the immediate area where pumice is quarried. This is white to gray pumice, by the way; the term "pumice" is also applied in the trade to a dark red volcanic rock which, I am told, is more properly called "scoria." The red pumice, or scoria, is mostly used in large particle sizes (3-4 cm) as mulch. Loren Russell has informed us that it contains very significant nutrient levels, and he has gone to rock yards and scooped up the fine detritus in the bottom of the scoria bin to use in growing alpines. I use the smallest size of scoria that can be bought here, about 1 cm diameter, as a top-dressing for some bulbs. Our NARGS chapter in Portland recently heard a talk by Truls Jensen of Wild Ginger Farm nursery called "Fresh air," which featured his techniques for increasing air space in container soils in order to grow xeric plants successfully. Wild Ginger, a mail-order nursery, has a very interesting plant list: WildGingerFarm.com Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Oct 4 14:49:28 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Colchicum byzantinum and friends Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 11:49:19 -0700 Russell Stafford wrote: >Colchicum laetum hort. has been given the name 'Pink Star'. It is >considered by some to be a selection of C. byzantinum. Plants I have >acquired from Holland under the name C. laetum have proven to be >close to C. byzantinum, complete with hooked crimson stigmas. They >depart from the latter in some ways though -- for one thing the corms >are smaller. This has puzzled me somewhat, as the corms of C. laetum >hort. are supposed to be similar in size to those of typical C. >byzantinum. Additionally, my C. laetum/'Pink Star' does not flower >earlier than C. byzantinum, as it's supposed to. I sometimes wonder >whether there are several clones of C. byzantinum in cultivation, and >I have something different from both typical C. byzantinum and 'Pink Star'. The plant I have as C. laetum flowers just a little before C. byzantinum, but at the same time as "C. byzantinum album hort," aka C. 'Innocence'. The "C. laetum" hort. here has hooked crimson stigmas as Russell mentions. I don't think corm size is very diagnostic in the large colchicums, because it varies greatly depending on cultural conditions. Corm shape is helpful in identifying some of them, though, e.g. C. bivonae, which has a distinctive shape like a squashed sphere. Even shape, however, would be affected by how crowded the corms have become if they haven't been lifted regularly, or if they have become deeply buried and have elongated. Jane Mcgary From totototo@telus.net Sun Oct 4 14:57:15 2009 Message-Id: <4AC88D93.21682.151A@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophone disaster!) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 11:57:07 -0700 On 4 Oct 2009, at 10:18, Jane McGary wrote: > I live where horticultural pumice is readily available. As it is generally in the Pacific Northwest. Here in BC, all we can get is pumice from Keefer's Greenhouses in Vancouver, in plastic bags and costing the earth considering what a plentiful material it is. The pumice they sell is a dead gray-white that I find visually unattractive. I have to wash it over fly screen to get rid of the fines, which I have in the past found will form a layer at the bottom of a pot and totally block drainage. In Washington state, Verkist orchid nursery outside Bellingham sells (or used to sell) both washed and unwashed pumice, the former in your choice of sizes. It's been many years since I was there, but the price was quite reasonable. The pumice they sold was a warm ocher yellow, very attractive. I don't use pumice for my bulbs, perhaps because it's really over priced, but I do use it for high alpines, many of which seem to very much enjoy it. I have a large pot of Weldenia candida that has pretensions of becoming a cabbage! > Our NARGS chapter in Portland recently heard a talk by Truls Jensen > of Wild Ginger Farm nursery called "Fresh air," which featured his > techniques for increasing air space in container soils in order to > grow xeric plants successfully. Undoubtedly many of the subscribers to the PBS mailing list have at one point or another heard Phil Pearson and Steve Doonan's dog and pony presentation on the importance of air in one's potting mixes. The importance of the roots having plenty of air seems to be rather poorly appreciated, but Florence Bellis in her "Gardening and Beyond", published 20 years or so ago, urged gardeners to fork over their beds every spring to improve aeration. The principle is nothing new. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From zigur@hotmail.com Sun Oct 4 15:00:41 2009 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophone disaster!) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 12:00:40 -0700 Beware of yellow pumice! It can be the result of high levels of boron, which may be phytotoxic. T > In Washington state, Verkist orchid nursery outside Bellingham sells (or used > to sell) both washed and unwashed pumice, the former in your choice of sizes. > It's been many years since I was there, but the price was quite reasonable. The > pumice they sold was a warm ocher yellow, very attractive. From pameladaz@msn.com Sun Oct 4 15:28:26 2009 Message-Id: From: "Pamela Slate" Subject: well-drained growing medium Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 12:28:15 -0700 Pumice is available here as well and is widely used by hobbyists and commercial growers. Here the 3/8”-minus is unwashed and contains fines. The 5/16” size is sold clean. There is also a larger size. I know commercial growers in Tucson who swear by including fines in their soil mixes and who say they do so because it improves the soil texture significantly. The color of our local pumice is off white. Here is the link: http://www.tufflitelightweightpumice.com/index.htm I’ve used all three of these sizes interchangeably in pots, vegetable/herb garden beds, seed and bulb mixes. I have no experience with fines settling to bottoms of pots, Rodger, and your comment makes me wonder how and how much pumice varies by quarry. Anyone know? Best, Pam Pamela Slate P.O. Box 5316 Carefree AZ 85377 From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Sun Oct 4 18:18:47 2009 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Colchicum byzantinum and friends Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 18:18:31 -0400 Another baffling entity that appears to be allied with C. autumnale or C. byzantinum is C. tenorii, which has starry flowers with wide-flaring narrow segments and crimson-tipped styles. It blooms later than C. byzantinum, opening its flowers at about the same time as C. cilicicum and C. autumnale 'Album'. In my last post I confused the bloom time of 'Pink Star'/C. laetum hort. with this plant. 'Pink Star' does indeed bloom earlier here. On the other hand, I find C. byzantinum and C. cilicicum to be quite distinct. Of the two, C. cilicicum blooms considerably later, is usually darker in flower, and has much longer styles. Its habit is also "tighter". Finally, the corms are very different -- C. cilicicum has broadly conical corms, whereas those of C. byzantinum are flattened spheres. As Jane notes, corms of different provenance can vary widely in their characteristics. For example, my C. bivonae corms are cone-shaped, like those illustrated in Phillips & Rix. Russell At 02:49 PM 10/4/2009, you wrote: >Jane McGary wrote: >The plant I have as C. laetum flowers just a little before C. >byzantinum, but at the same time as "C. byzantinum album hort," aka >C. 'Innocence'. The "C. laetum" hort. here has hooked crimson stigmas >as Russell mentions. > >I don't think corm size is very diagnostic in the large colchicums, >because it varies greatly depending on cultural conditions. Corm >shape is helpful in identifying some of them, though, e.g. C. >bivonae, which has a distinctive shape like a squashed sphere. Even >shape, however, would be affected by how crowded the corms have >become if they haven't been lifted regularly, or if they have become >deeply buried and have elongated. > >Jane Mcgary Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com From JFlintoff@aol.com Sun Oct 4 23:35:31 2009 Message-Id: From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 23:35:21 EDT Russell Actually Colchicum 'Pink Star' was named by the holder of the National Collection in England as the best clone of C. laetum Hort. It has wider tepals and is showier than the more usual C. laetum Hort which can be gotten under many other names, including C. parnassicum . I think I have another different but very similar clone. J.John Flintoff Lake Forest Park, Washington, USA Zone 8 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Oct 5 13:23:24 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:22:29 -0700 It has been mentioned that the name Colchicum parnassicum is misapplied in cultivation to C. laetum hort. However, the Archibalds offer seed of a documented collection of C. parnassicum, which I am growing though it is not mature enough to flower yet, so in spite of being misapplied in gardens it is apparently a valid name -- at least at some point in the unsatisfactory nomenclature of this genus. I just inventoried my bulbs and find I have about 120 accessions of Colchicum, but these include some hybrids and some as yet unidentified ones grown from wild-collected seed, as well as multiple wild sources for the same species, so in this collection there are probably about 70 actual distinct species as now recognized, not counting the named horticultural selections. If I had to pick just two for a desert-island garden, I think the big one would be C. speciosum 'Album' and the small one C. cupanii ssp. bertolonii. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From d.avensis@virgin.net Mon Oct 5 14:42:04 2009 Message-Id: <7E8B1E0A59924549AF5F44E7004A98A6@Auricula> From: "David Nicholson" Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:41:55 +0100 Jane McGary wrote " It has been mentioned that the name Colchicum parnassicum is misapplied in cultivation to C. laetum hort. However, the Archibalds offer seed of a documented collection of C. parnassicum, which I am growing though it is not mature enough to flower yet, so in spite of being misapplied in gardens it is apparently a valid name -- at least at some point in the unsatisfactory nomenclature of this genus........" Reference to the Kew Monocot Check List, see http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/prepareChecklist.do;jsessionid=958A0D02C0FB6FF6CDC4A90A39990B63?checklist=selected_families%40%40185030720082131140 shows Colchicum parnassicum to be an accepted name with an Homotypic synonym of C. lingulatum var. parnassicum, and a Heterotypic synonym of C. neopolitanum. C. laetum is also accepted with the Homotypic synonym of C. byzantinum var. laetum. David Nicholson in Devon UK Zone 9b From JFlintoff@aol.com Mon Oct 5 16:13:56 2009 Message-Id: From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:13:50 EDT I really did not mean to imply that Colchicum parnassicum was not a good species, just that I have received C. "laetum" under that name as well as under several other legitimate names. Someone else had mentioned C parnassicum under this thread. John From to.sa@comhem.se Mon Oct 5 18:40:56 2009 Message-Id: <7A9703C6-874D-4C0A-B1AB-09F295554857@comhem.se> From: Tomas Sandberg Subject: Griffinia rochae Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 00:40:18 +0200 Hi, if you feel for it look at my G rochae in flower right now the link to it is: http://bulbousplants.forum24.se It is in the picture room! Tomas Sandberg bulbousspecies@gmail.com From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Mon Oct 5 20:32:27 2009 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:31:58 -0400 Hi, Jerry -- what is your source for this? Rod Leeds, apparently drawing on information from an RHS AGM trial, describes 'Pink Star' as a selection of C. byzantinum . John Grimshaw in an earlier contribution to this thread says the same of C. laetum hort., by which (I assume) he means the plant Rod Leeds refers to as 'Pink Star'. This, however, does not square with a recent article in the Turkish Journal of Botany, which pegs C. laetum hort. as synonymous with C. decaisnei. It is also my understanding that C. parnassicum is confused in commerce with C. laetum Steven (or the REAL C. laetum), not C. laetum hort. As is so often the case with members of this genus, the whole thing is a bit of a mess. Russell At 11:35 PM 10/4/2009, you wrote: >Russell > > Actually Colchicum 'Pink Star' was named by the holder of the National >Collection in England as the best clone of C. laetum Hort. It has wider >tepals and is showier than the more usual C. laetum Hort which can be gotten >under many other names, including C. parnassicum . I think I have another >different but very similar clone. > >J.John Flintoff >Lake Forest Park, Washington, USA >Zone 8 Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com From leo@possi.org Mon Oct 5 20:45:21 2009 Message-Id: <38da26c14153221c230d8329052ee482.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Hard water on bulb containers in greenhouse. Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Marguerite wrote > Thanks to all of you who offered thoughts on this topic. I was actually > researching for two places: my brother whose (desert location) well is > alkaline and who has a number of gorgeous camelias, begonias and a few > epiphyllums. He's the one who will be adding the filter system to the > line going into his shadehouse. Oh! I haven't grown camellias, but begonias and epiphyllum hybrids aren't that particular about desert water and soils. There may be some tip burn on some of the Rex type begonias but the epis aren't bothered by hard/alkaline water. The problem is the summer temperatures. I wouldn't spend the money filtering the water for those plants - I'd spend it on a cooling system for summer nights. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Oct 5 20:49:27 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:49:12 -0700 Russell wrote, This, however, does not square with a recent article in the >Turkish Journal of Botany, which pegs C. laetum hort. as synonymous >with C. decaisnei. The plant I received as C. laetum from Dutch growers is NOTHING like C. decaisnei, which I have grown from Archibalds' seed of documented wild origin. C. decaisnei is a rather small species, though not a real miniature, and very pale pink its flowers do not open widely like those of C. laetum hort. Jane McGary From leo@possi.org Mon Oct 5 21:02:29 2009 Message-Id: <9dd69b62148da97fdc71516aeefaa52d.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophone disaster!) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 18:02:22 -0700 (PDT) > On a related point, I wonder if anyone with experience of using it > would advise me which grade or particle size of pumice to use for > horticultural applications. I've never used it but am keen to experiment > with it after reading the recent correspondence on Boophone and other SA > Amaryllidaceae. So much of this depends on your climate and the plants you are trying to grow. People in wetter and more humid areas generally succeed with more open mixes of larger particle size. People in drier, more arid areas look for smaller particles. Bulb seedlings usually need a more water-retentive mix. But the general idea is to use a combination of soil mix plus container that almost dries in the same time frame as your preferred watering interval. For example, Phoenix has very low winter humidity and warm days unless it's raining--often under 10% for weeks on end. I use non-porous containers twice as deep as wide and a soil mix of sand mixed with native granite soil for my winter-growing bulbs. I suspect in Oregon with this mix and containers my seedlings would rot quickly, but my problem in Phoenix is keeping seedlings damp enough. Perlite works well under many circumstances but horticultural perlite available here is of quite small particle size and it stays wet a very long time. With watering, perlite, if mixed with anything else, soon floats out of the heavier stuff and forms a zone of pure perlite at the top of the container, with the heavier stuff below this. Then the perlite blows out of the pot in the wind, or it is splashed out with watering. I have wanted to try some of the larger-particle perlite, often used for insulation, but I have been warned much of this is very high in fluoride and toxic to plants. I don't know where to find it in any event. I would definitely encourage people to wash the pumice to remove the powder unless you wish a more water-retentive mix. And remember to wear a mask when working with pumice or perlite; the dust can cause lung disease. That goes for pretty much anything that is dusty--peat moss, coir, scoria, etc. etc. etc. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Mon Oct 5 21:08:52 2009 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:08:33 -0400 C. decaisnei is apparently a highly variable species -- the segments range in size from 1.5 to 4.5 cm long, and in color from white to lilac- or purple-pink. Flowers can be narrowly or broadly funnel shaped. Moreover, its name has been and still is applied to several other species including C. troodii. It's possible that seeds of different provenance would produce plants that resembled C. laetum hort. I have seen photos of supposed C. decaisnei flowers that are a dead ringer for C. laetum hort. Russell At 08:49 PM 10/5/2009, you wrote: >Jane McGary wrote, > >The plant I received as C. laetum from Dutch growers is NOTHING like >C. decaisnei, which I have grown from Archibalds' seed of documented >wild origin. C. decaisnei is a rather small species, though not a >real miniature, and very pale pink its flowers do not open widely >like those of C. laetum hort. > >Jane McGary Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Tue Oct 6 05:29:10 2009 Message-Id: <3b9284cd0910060225w2436e326yf6ad935dc0364063@mail.gmail.com> From: "J. Agoston" Subject: Canna ID please Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 11:25:53 +0200 Dear All, I have growing this canna from seed (first year), but I don't know which species? I have shown years ago different species but they refused to germinate, so I mixed them up and now one volunteered. Please help me. http://picasaweb.google.hu/lh/photo/iBbflm2xRS9RLKH4gSPDJQ?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.hu/lh/photo/lLBLGgVhw024RMCwZyA1nw?feat=directlink Thank you, Jan, Z5a, Hungary From jshields104@comcast.net Tue Oct 6 09:25:03 2009 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20091006092005.01b76aa8@mail.comcast.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Colchicum atropurpureum Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 09:24:43 -0400 Colchicum atropurpureum, which I got from Robert Potterton in 2001, is suddenly in bloom. I had forgotten I had this species, and I don't recall seeing it in bloom in past years. Flowers are small and intensely colored; but it started raining about the time I discovered this in bloom, so no pictures or measurement. Still no signs of Sternbergia around here. Jim Shields in Westfield, Indiana, USA where we are expecting some chilly nights later this week. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From JFlintoff@aol.com Tue Oct 6 10:49:59 2009 Message-Id: <8CC14AB5CD052B2-7940-1F0A@webmail-d010.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:49:38 -0400 Russell ???? The English friend who sent me Colchicum ' Pink Star' got his corms from the National Collection at Feldrigg Hall and said he was told there that 'Pink Star'? was the best of the clones that circulate as C. laetum Hort.? I would certainly agree with that. ???? For those wondering what C. laetum Hort looks like I believe there is a colored photo in the Phillips and Rix Bulb Book and an older B & W, which is very clear, ?photo by Richard Nutt in one of the Scottish Rock Garden Society bulletins ( can get the volumn and page if anyone is interested). ???? I've never seen any seed set on these plants so I am sceptical of the identification with Colchicum decaisnei, an attributation that goes back over many years. ???? Hopefully Chris Brickell will eventually publish his horticultural monograph of colchicums and Karen Pearson at the Gothenberg BC will summarize her extensive work in a comprehensive paper. J. John Flintoff Lake Forest Park, WA, USA Zone 8 From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Tue Oct 6 12:13:31 2009 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:13:29 -0400 Thanks for the reply, Jerry. C. decaisnei certainly has been confused with any number of other species, including C. cilicicum. You're saying you have three takes on C. laetum hort, then? Are you convinced they're clones of the same plant? Is that plant C. byzantinum, in your opinion? If evaluation under New England conditions would be of any help.... Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com From ton1.wijnen@planet.nl Tue Oct 6 12:31:27 2009 Message-Id: From: "Ton Wijnen" Subject: Griffinia rochae Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 18:31:10 +0200 Magnificient Thank you for sharing Warmest regards Ton -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] Namens Tomas Sandberg Verzonden: dinsdag 6 oktober 2009 0:40 Aan: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Onderwerp: [pbs] Griffinia rochae Hi, if you feel for it look at my G rochae in flower right now the link to it is: http://bulbousplants.forum24.se It is in the picture room! Tomas Sandberg bulbousspecies@gmail.com From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Oct 6 12:55:22 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 09:52:47 -0700 John Flintoff wrote, >???? Hopefully Chris Brickell will eventually publish his >horticultural monograph of colchicums and Karen Pearson at the >Gothenberg BC will summarize her extensive work in a comprehensive paper. I think the Swedish botanist's name is spelled Karin Persson. She has named a great many new species, mostly from Greece and the Balkans, in recent years, which in my opinion will not help to clear up the confusion. I heard from someone that her monograph is complete but there is some hold-up with publishing it; I don't know whether it's lack of funding or something else (from editorial experience I tend to suspect a botanical artist is not finishing the drawings). The two collections of Colchicum decaisnei that I have here are similar in size but one does have wider tepals than the other. One is from cultivated seed from the UK (but is definitely not C. laetum hort.) and the other is a wild collection. Incidentally, for many years I've been growing a miniature white-flowered colchicum received from an English source as C. cupanii, but I'm pretty sure it's C. hungaricum. However, in the new entries for the NARGS photo contest there is a photo, taken in the wild, and identified as C. hungaricum, that is rather different from anything I have under that name. It may be an unusual form, however, because it is white with a pink base. One of the prettiest small colchicums here I bought from Antoine Hoog, a very reliable botanist-grower, as C. hungaricum 'Valentine', and it is bright pink and bigger than other C. hungaricum I've seen. There are some very tiny Colchicum species, and these tend to increase well. Increase in species also seems to vary with individuals (or populations); for instance, I have three collections of C. variegatum, and one of them increases fairly fast, but the others hardly at all. Some species seem to set seed more readily than others, but it's hard to collect the seed because it is apparently attractive to ants, which usually find it before I do. Oddly, the species formerly known as Merendera hang onto their seeds better; perhaps the ant-attractant is not present on them? Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From JFlintoff@aol.com Tue Oct 6 13:14:35 2009 Message-Id: <8CC14BF929C4E03-622C-2309C@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:14:18 -0400 ???? One of my pet peeves is the misspelling of the word "cupanii".? This Italian botanist regularly used in his corespondence and other writing the latinized version of of his name as Cupanus.? Hence the genative singular would be " cupani,"? with just one "i" .?? Admittedly verry few people learn Latin any more? but Brian Mathew and others who should know better consistently use the misspelled version.? ???? Karin Persson's botanical work on monocots is excellent and I certainly look foreward to seeing an up to date monograph on colchicums. J.John Flintoff From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Tue Oct 6 13:53:17 2009 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:53:14 -0400 Commemorative epithets come with their own risks, not the least of which is pronunciation! Russell At 01:14 PM 10/6/2009, you wrote: >???? One of my pet peeves is the misspelling of the word "cupanii".? >This Italian botanist regularly used in his corespondence and other >writing the latinized version of of his name as Cupanus.? Hence the >genative singular would be " cupani,"? with just one "i" .?? >Admittedly verry few people learn Latin any more? but Brian Mathew >and others who should know better consistently use the misspelled version.? Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Oct 6 15:38:48 2009 Message-Id: <000301ca46bc$9c0cf010$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: colchicum byzantinum & friends Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 15:38:41 -0400 Jerry wrote “???? One of my pet peeves is the misspelling of the word "cupanii".? This Italian botanist regularly used in his corespondence and other writing the latinized version of of his name as Cupanus.? Hence the genative singular would be " cupani,"? with just one "i" .?? Admittedly verry few people learn Latin any more? but Brian Mathew and others who should know better consistently use the misspelled version.? “ Jerry, I think you’re being rather hard on those of us who routinely write cupanii rather than cupani. Is Gussone’s cupani to be construed as a masculine singular genitive adjective derived from the neo-Latin word Cupanus or is it to be construed as a masculine nominative plural Italian noun in apposition to the word Colchicum? How do we know that Gussone did not intend to write cupanii, and that cupani is not a typo? Did Gussone himself make his intentions clear? And would you then say that specific epithets based on the Italian name Bertoloni are misspelled when they are cited as bertolonii? This issue is doubly confusing because in modern botanical usage the –ii ending is now the standard for the masculine singular genitive forms of words with stems ending in a consonant (or in the case of non-Latin words, words which end in a consonant) – and words published with a single –i are now routinely corrected to –ii when the stem (or non-Latin word) ends in a consonant. To add to the potential confusion, zoology uses the –i exclusively in similar cases. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Tue Oct 6 16:15:56 2009 Message-Id: <43FA49D1574F4E48A5FCA96BE8D942AB@homepc> From: Subject: Asiatic Section Wiki pages Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:15:47 +0100 Please forgive a non member from commenting on the PBS Wiki pages content regarding two taxa shown there, I hope the corrections are accepted in the spirit offered. [a] The photograph by David Victor which is shown purporting to be Lilium duchartrei is in fact Lilium lankongense. The latter is sometimes refered to as the "pink Lilium duchartrei". However in terms of accuracy L. duchartrei [sensu strictu] also known as the Marbled Martagon is exclusively white flowered & spotted to varying degrees of purple on the inner half of each tepal. The recently resurfaced plant which flowered here at Auchgourish Botanic Garden for the first time this year appears to be Lilium duchartrei subsp. / var. farreri, also known as Farrer's Martagon, this 'version' gives the impression of being 'on steroids' given that it is so much larger morphologically in several particulars by comparison with the nominate form, whether as a variety or subspecies. The time taken to recover from the shock supposedly having met up with this 'lost' lily left little time to make a proper assessment then given all the other issues demanding attention, something I hope to make good on here during the winter . [b] The photograph by Gerry Danen portraying the 'Leichtlin Lily' is now likely, as I was just getting adjusted to thinking, as requiring to be referred to on the grounds of the International Rules of Botanical Taxonomy under the first validly published date rule as being Lilium maximowiczii var. leichtlinii, being the albino form of Maximowicz's Lily and restricted in distribution to Japan. However this may not now be the case as it has been pointed out by Dr. Marina Baranova in her wonderful and colour illustrated Russian publication 'Lilies' as being perhaps now correctly needing to be known as Lilium pseudotirgrinum Carriere [1867]. Baranova furthermore cites an albino - yellow form as being forma unicolor Hort. (p.249) with further reference by her to a synonym "L. pumilum" which she attributes to " Mc-Re J., (sic) of [1980]". However, as the text is in Russian getting a clear sense of what is meant, despite a native Russian speaker's assistance has proved difficult and I think this must be a mistake. The entry where Gerry Danen has stated, "Lilium maximowiczii, synonymous with Lilium tigrinum ......." is inaccurate. These two taxa are not in anyway synonymous on several grounds including recent cladastic studies. Further more the name Lilium tigrinum, commonly used as it is is a synonym for Lilium lancifolium Thunb. [1794], which latter taxon has its own yellow [albino] form var. flaviflorum (Makino) Stearn as well as forms such as 'flore-pleno' and var. fortunei Standish [1866], as well as the triploid var. splendens Leichtlin ex Van Houtte (1870).The synonym Lilium tigrinum Ker-Gawler [1810] anti-dates Thunberg's name by over twenty years. Regards, Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 114387 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 6 17:05:20 2009 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: Asiatic Section Wiki pages Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 22:03:45 +0100 In message <43FA49D1574F4E48A5FCA96BE8D942AB@homepc>, info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org writes >The entry where Gerry Danen has stated, "Lilium maximowiczii, >synonymous with Lilium tigrinum ......." is inaccurate. I have to point out that Gerry Danen didn't say that, I made a change to that entry (as the history feature shows), but the above is not what the wiki says. It says: "The variety maximowiczii synonymous with variety tigrinum has orange flowers." Thanks for the points. Anyone is welcome to comment or contribute. The wiki is short of a few lily photos, for example Lilium philippinense, if you don't feel like tackling the wiki yourself email them to me. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From totototo@telus.net Tue Oct 6 20:26:15 2009 Message-Id: <4ACB7DB5.18022.22D4@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophone disaster!) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 17:26:13 -0700 On 5 Oct 2009, at 18:02, Leo A. Martin wrote: > I have wanted to try some of the larger-particle perlite, often used for > insulation, but I have been warned much of this is very high in fluoride > and toxic to plants. Change that "is" to "may be". If you feel you must use insulation grade perlite in spite of these warnings, you can mitigate the risk by adding lime to the mix as calcium fluoride and magnesium fluoride are very insoluble and thus the presence of Ca++ and Mg++ ions in the soil will tend to soak up any F- released by the perlite. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From eez55@earthlink.net Tue Oct 6 20:48:50 2009 Message-Id: <380-220091037048450@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophonedisaster!) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 20:48:45 -0400 Another option is to check around for "sponge rock". This is large sized perlite that some orchid growers use in their growing media. Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA USA > [Original Message] > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 10/6/2009 8:26:18 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophonedisaster!) > > On 5 Oct 2009, at 18:02, Leo A. Martin wrote: > > > I have wanted to try some of the larger-particle perlite, often used for > > insulation, but I have been warned much of this is very high in fluoride > > and toxic to plants. > > Change that "is" to "may be". If you feel you must use insulation grade perlite > in spite of these warnings, you can mitigate the risk by adding lime to the mix > as calcium fluoride and magnesium fluoride are very insoluble and thus the > presence of Ca++ and Mg++ ions in the soil will tend to soak up any F- released > by the perlite. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From idavide@sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 6 21:39:46 2009 Message-Id: <948866.49474.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: weed problems Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 18:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Dear members,   It was interesting reading the discussion about Roundup last week.  I have a similar problem: pernicious weeds.  I live in a townhouse alongside some birch trees.  As you may know, a single birch produces millions of seed each season – every one viable!  Birch seed seeps in through the tiniest cracks; it gets into everything: bedding, rugs, toweling, pet’s hair; it forms windrows in the driveway.  My pots get covered with a “mulch” of viable birch seed.  The second most pernicious weed is Stellaria media.  I’m always amazed at how much of the stuff I have to pull out of every pot.  Then there are the grasses and mustards ….  So you can see, I’d be very interested in finding a commercially available chemical or hormone that would prevent seeds from germinating but which wouldn’t affect the growth of bulbs, whether they be dormant, awakening, or in full leaf/bloom.   Thank you, David Ehrlich From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue Oct 6 22:08:54 2009 Message-Id: <410-2200910372845843@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophonedisaster!) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 22:08:45 -0400 I use expanded shale (Perma Til) to construct a well drained potting mix. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 7b- From GardenPT@aol.com Tue Oct 6 23:21:42 2009 Message-Id: <8CC1514638D62B0-3734-1A188@webmail-d020.sysops.aol.com> From: gardenpt@aol.com Subject: Well-drained growing media -- Sponge Rok versus perlite Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:21:26 -0400 Sponge Rok and perlite are the same thing-- the first is a brand name for the second. Comes in various grades -- fine, medium and coarse (at least that was the case years ago) It was said: Another option is to check around for "sponge rock". -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Zielinski To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 5:48 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophonedisaster!) Another option is to check around for "sponge rock". This is large sized perlite that some orchid growers use in their growing media. From d.avensis@virgin.net Wed Oct 7 07:07:41 2009 Message-Id: From: "David Nicholson" Subject: Well-drained growing media (was Oh No! A Boophonedisaster!) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:07:37 +0100 I missed the first postings on this discussion so apologies if I have got the context wrong. In the UK quite a few bulb growers are using cat litter as an essential part of their potting mix and especially so by growers of Cypripedium and Pleione. One particularly good grower of Cypripedium uses a mix based on cat litter plus 10% each of loam and fine or composted bark. Cat litter is said to be calcinated moler clay. Certainly in the UK it is widely available in bags from supermarkets and garden centres with a pets section. Tesco Premium quality cat litter is said to be the best available and it is recognised that some cheaper brands break down in the potting mix and cause, rather than prevent, drainage problems. A search of the Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum on "cat litter" will bring up a host of information. David Nicholson in Devon, UK. Zone 9b From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 7 09:59:52 2009 Message-Id: <20091007135944.980804C01B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Ron Vanderhoff (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:58:07 -0700 Two or three weeks ago Ken Black of San Diego posted some great pics of Brunsvigia josephinae at the UC Irvine Arboretum. Just visited again today. The Amaryllis, Amarygia's and Brunsvigia littoralis are all done, but a tremendous Brunsvigia josephinae was in full glory. About 36-40" to the top with about a 30" width. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Brunsvigia#josephinae Ron Vanderhoff From davidxvictor@btinternet.com Wed Oct 7 14:25:25 2009 Message-Id: <20091007182524.E6DA04C01D@lists.ibiblio.org> From: David Victor Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 81, Issue 12 Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:25:18 +0100 >Dear Iaian, Only too happy to accept your correction. I don't pretend to know much about Lilium sp. The identification was given to me by my guide from Kunming BG. Best regards, David Victor From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Wed Oct 7 17:59:44 2009 Message-Id: <81983A0AD58F4475ADC9432E29B3016F@homepc> From: Subject: L. maximowiczii syn with variety tigrinum Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 22:59:51 +0100 David Pilling has pointed out my apparent miss quote in relation to the taxonomy on the WIKI page by Gerry Danen. Whether as first refer to by myself, or the phrasing corrected by David to " the variety maximowiczii synonymous with variety tigrinum has orange flowers" , this latter correction or phrasing is never the less still taxonomically inaccurate, there is no such Lilium taxon in the botanical literature. Firstly Lilium maximowiczii as currently understood is a taxon at species level which in the past has on occassion been taxonomically incorrectly treated as a variety / varietas of Lilium leichtlinii, which latter lily is in fact restricted in distribution to Japan and is by the Japanese and other authorities regarded as an albino forma of Lilium maximowiczii, i.e. Lilium maximowiczii var.leichtlinii Secondly, the taxon refered to as "tigrinum" on the WIKI page on this basis remains in fact a synonym for Lilium lancifolium Thunberg [1794] wheras Lilium tigrinum Ker-Gawler [1810] has never as far as I have have been able to discover in almost all the literature published on Lilies from the early 19th century in the library here has it ever been refered to as "variety tigrinum", were it to have been so, what was it supposed to have been a variety of?. Here may be a confusion or misunderstaning between the taxonomy references at species, subspecies and varietas levels. To summarise, "tigrinum" at any level is a synonym for Lilium lancifolium which may it seems indeed eventually prove to be a synonym itself for that of an earlier published name, namely Lilium pseudotigrinum, however both Stephen Haw and I are checking this out right now. As Stephen rightly remarks, sometimes dare we say, the so called 'obscure' foreign journals were not always specifically accurate as to the date[s] of their publication, intention to publish by or on xx/xx/xx were on occasions not met with precisely for a variety of reasons, but we are checking that. Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 114653 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Oct 7 18:40:51 2009 Message-Id: <000f01ca479f$37827870$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: L. maximowiczii syn with variety tigrinum Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:40:48 -0400 Ian, where in the world are you getting your information about Lilium leichtlinii? You seem to have nomenclature and systematics thoroughly confused. The lilies originally named Lilium leichtlinii (a lily with yellow flowers) and Lilium maximowiczii (a lily with orange flowers) have long been known to be conspecific. That is to say, both are forms of the same species. The first published name for members of this species is Lilium leichtlinii. That that is the name of the yellow-flowered form (a tiny minority of wild plants) is irrelevant. As the first published name for any member of the species, it becomes the specific epithet of all members of the species. It’s a case of the nomenclatural tail wagging the dog, to be sure. That the orange-flowered form is in fact the usual form of the species, the most numerous form of the species, is irrelevant for nomenclatural purposes. If you ask a dealer to send you Lilium leichtlinii, and he sends you the orange-flowered form rather than the yellow-flowered form you are expecting, you have only yourself to blame: the orange-flowered form and the yellow-flowered form are equally Lilium leichtlinii. Gardeners will probably continue to distinguish these lilies with Latinized botanical names at the species or varietas rank; however, given the trend among modern botanists, there is reason to question whether the yellow-flowered form deserves a unique botanical name at all. The whole point of modern taxonomy is to identify and name sexually reproducing populations. There really isn’t a sound philosophical basis for the recognition of mutations in the formal hierarchy of names. That in fact is the biggest difference between formal botany and the naming of plants for horticultural purposes: gardeners want to pigeon hole everything, and our everything is largely made up of freaks, mutations, hybrids – phenomena which do not really have much to do with the modern concepts of species. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 7 20:12:15 2009 Message-Id: <20091008001206.E3E194C01F@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: L. maximowiczii syn with variety tigrinum Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:53:51 -0700 On the PBS wiki we sometimes include synonyms for the benefit of the public to help them learn what is the correct name and which plants are the same. So many of the plants we have grown have over time had multiple names and we don't usually include all of them although it is helpful to include ones still in use. This is complicated by more than one opinion about correct names so it is difficult to know when someone proposes changing a name whether this new name is going to be accepted. Here is the Kew entry: Lilium leichtlinii var. maximowiczii (Regel) Baker, Gard. Chron. 1871: 1422 (1871). Homotypic Synonyms: * Lilium maximowiczii Regel, Index Seminum (LE) 1866(Suppl.): 26 (1867). * Basionym/Replaced Synonym Heterotypic Synonyms: Lilium pseudotigrinum Carrière, Rev. Hort. 1867: 411 (1867). Lilium maximowiczii var. tigrinum Regel, Gartenflora 19: 290 (1870). Lilium leichtlinii var. pseudotigrinum (Carrière) Baker, J. Hort. Soc. London, n.s., 4: 47 (1877). Lilium maximowiczii var. bakeri Elwes, Monogr. Lilium: t. 40, f. 2 (1880). Lilium maximowiczii var. pseudotigrinum (Carrière) Elwes, Monogr. Lilium: t. 40, f. 4 (1880). Lilium maximowiczii var. regelii Elwes, Monogr. Lilium: t. 40, f. 3 (1880). Lilium leichtlinii var. tigrinum (Regel) G.Nicholson, Ill. Dict. Gard. 2: 271 (1887). Lilium leichtlinii f. pseudotigrinum (Carrière) H.Hara & Kitam., Acta Phytotax. Geobot. 36: 93 (1985). The wiki entry says: "Lilium leichtlinii is from Japan. The yellow form of Lilium leichtlinii with reddish-purple spots grows only in central Honshu, Japan's main island, among tall grasses in rich, moist meadows. The stem is purplish; the buds (and the outside base of the tepals) are woolly. Height 60-120 cm (2-4'). The flowers are smaller than L. lancifolium. The variety maximowiczii synonymous with variety tigrinum has orange flowers." Reading this entry it seems to me that all it says is the Lilium leichtlinii var. maximowiczii ( a name accepted by Kew) was also published under the name var. tigrinum in 1887 in The Illustrated Dictionary of Gardening. I believe that is all that is meant by this. The Tropicos data base also has this listing as a synonym for var. maximowiczii. I suppose we could change the synonym reference to syn. Lilium maximowiczii var. tigrinum, syn. Lilium pseudotigrinum, or include all three but I'm wondering if this is really necessary. The name cited by Iain, Lilium maximowiczii var. leichtlinii is not listed in either place. I know Iain is an expert on the genus Lilium. I believe most of us in this group are merely gardeners. We try to be as accurate as we can on the wiki and welcome corrections, but in this case it is not clear to me what the problem is. Mary Sue From robertwerra@pacific.net Wed Oct 7 20:57:29 2009 Message-Id: <002801ca47b2$4a954dd0$b8296ad0@popbob> From: Subject: well drained growing media Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:57:20 -0700 I used gray lava rock in pots of moraeas one year and the did terrible compared to non lava. What about granite instead. Where can it be easily obtained. Thanks, Bob From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 07:36:58 2009 Message-Id: <742422.92059.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: well drained growing media Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 04:36:56 -0700 (PDT) A pot that is taller than wide helps the drainage tremendously.  I have used a mix with hydroton/hydrokorrel/lecca clay or whatever it is called these days and the Hippeastrums did well.  I just happened to have access to a lot of leftover from someone's research but it is not too expensive for just a handful of plants.   James Frelichowski College Station, TX --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robertwerra@pacific.net wrote: From: robertwerra@pacific.net Subject: [pbs] well drained growing media To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc: "Robert J Werra" Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 5:57 PM I used gray lava rock in pots of moraeas one year and the did terrible compared to non lava. What about granite instead. Where can it be easily obtained. Thanks,   Bob From loujost@yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 14:11:24 2009 Message-Id: <81247.24147.qm@web63408.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Nomenclature and taxonomy of Lilium Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:11:12 -0700 (PDT) The current trend among professional botanists is to lump things, as Jim said. Nevertheless the population genetics literature often reveals considerable genetic differentiation between subpopulations of conspecific plants. Current trends in conservation genetics favor the preservation of such genetic variation, in order to ensure the long-term viability of the species. Giving each form a name at a subpecific level is the first step to preserving this kind of intra-specific variation in nature or ex situ. It may strike modern botanists as old-fashioned to give names to every little variation (and indeed this process often can go overboard), but it does little harm, and is quite helpful in conserving the diversity of a population. Lou Jost From totototo@telus.net Thu Oct 8 14:22:22 2009 Message-Id: <4ACDCB6B.22655.8FEC56@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: well drained growing media Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:22:19 -0700 On 7 Oct 2009, at 17:57, robertwerra@pacific.net wrote: > Where can [granite] be easily obtained? Locally, we buy it at farm supply places, where it's sold as grit for birds & poultry in a variety of grades ranging from "turkey grit" (about 1/4") through chicken nos. I-III, budgie grit, and canary grit. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From totototo@telus.net Thu Oct 8 14:22:22 2009 Message-Id: <4ACDCB6B.7970.8FEC3C@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: L. maximowiczii syn with variety tigrinum Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:22:19 -0700 On 7 Oct 2009, at 18:40, Jim McKenney wrote: > ...nomenclature and systematics thoroughly confused. The > lilies originally named Lilium leichtlinii (a lily with yellow flowers) and > Lilium maximowiczii (a lily with orange flowers) have long been known to be > conspecific. That is to say, both are forms of the same species. > > The first published name for members of this species is Lilium leichtlinii. That > that is the name of the yellow-flowered form (a tiny minority of wild plants) is > irrelevant. As the first published name for any member of the species, it > becomes the specific epithet of all members of the species. Perhaps it's worth rephrasing Jim's remarks by saying that the type of a taxon is often not typical of the taxon. Thus the adjective "typical" has two disparate connotations, the strict botanical sense of the word referring to the type specimen, and the ordinary, looser everyday sense that refers to what's usual for the taxon. In the eastern Asiatic flora in particular, many plants were first named from horticultural forms, as plant collectors were restricted in their travels to cities and the environs thereof. As is well known, gardeners tend to select aberrant forms, hence many type specimens are quite atypical of the species as a whole. Interesting example: Kerria japonica, first named on the basis of the double- flowered form acquired from a horticultural source. It was unassigned to any family because it is so double that the floral anatomy distinguishing families was obliterated. Only when a single flowered form was found growing wild was Kerria finally assigned to the Rosaceae. As for Lilium leichtlinii, the horticultural group nomenclature might work best: Lilium leichtlinii Leichtlinii Group (i.e. w. yellow flowers) Lilium leichtlinii Maximowiczii Group (i.e. w. orange flowers) Generally speaking, flower color is NOT considered to be a useful criterion for distinguishing formally defined botanical taxa, so even "Lilium leichtlinii var. maximowiczii" is a rather dubious use of botanical terminology. If, however, L. "maximowiczii" consistently differs from L. "leichtlinii" in anatomical details, then the use of the botanical "var." level would be appropriate. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Thu Oct 8 17:59:37 2009 Message-Id: <14DE74D3FD6C4863BE38781E50694AB5@homepc> From: Subject: Lily nomenclature Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 22:59:36 +0100 Firstly all folks kindly as Mary Sue mentioned, I am no expert on anything but I have spent an egregious amount of time, possibly waisted, on researching the nomenclature within the genus Lilium, during that process, through gritted teeth not finished I am sure, there have been turned up in this process something like 700 + and counting synonyms for what may prove to be some 150 taxa at species and subspecies levels tops, those for varietas and forma are where the endless and possibly futile debate rages as to what constitutes any specific taxonomic level, e.g. if its got five spots instead of four it gets given a varietal name, the literature is littered with them, so too are supposed species such as Lilium wilsonii, etc, amongst Japanese lilies which are nothing more than part of the Lilium x elegans complex, all carefully recorded over many centuries by the Japanese but ignored here in the West. In several cases now we have the conclusive aid of those cladastic studies which have looked at many lilies at whatever level one wishes to cast them and the results are inarguable, at least by most folks. When I started this research I had thought I was in the so called 'lumpers camp' now I am not so sure where I am on this. Taxonomy as we have been comfortable with seems under major reassessment and undoubtedly even greater 'debate or argument' not just confined to the Plant Kingdom is already well under way. For good or ill, my approach for the Monograph will be to stick [a] with the Int. Rule of first publication date, due to the increased facility to access previously unrecorded publications often because they were not in English they have been totally missed however now a great deal of new material is becoming better known allowing for a revision which may or may not be welcome, people will be free then as now to use names as they feel; and [b] what I hope to achieve is an objective assessment based on the results of cladastic studies where available. Who for example would have thought that Lilium auratum var. platyphyllum is much more closely related to Lilium japonicum than it is to Lilium auratum var. auratum but that is exactly what today's science is telling us. Who would have expected that Lilium candidum's long believed closest relative is not Lilium chalcedonicum with which it shares parentage with Lilium x testaceum but that it turns out to be Lilium ciliatum; so far no hybrid has been attempted or exists involving L. ciliatum but I can sense the feelers going out already seeking bulbs of the latter to see who gets into the race first, but I am sure it will not be long in coming!. Interestingly the self same cladastic researches are making clear that the Sections within Lilium with which we are all fairly familiar are under radical revision as a result, the previous over reliance, e.g. on the Martagon shape of flowers, has led Comber, et al. into some strange conclusions, however the man with hindsight would rule the world. What these cladastic studies will enable is a better assessment for pairing off lilies in hybridisation and less frustratingly futile trips up blind allies in the process. Whatever position one takes there will be dissenters and I apologise in advance but hope to make the best fist of it that my guddled wee brain can eventually manage. I accept there are those for whom any departure from say a name of a species is automatically by default allocated to that of variety. If however in struggling to produce a Monograph on any plant or living 'thing' it is best to make a determined effort to achieve accuracy, always with the caveat that to err is human and that any such effort will always be open to challenge, ce la vie. For me the most egregious example of sloppy taxonomy is where a plant is brought into cultivation under a cultivar name only to be subsequently marketed by Nurserymen through production from seed rather than vegetatively, here in the UK they are open to prosecution for defrauding customers under the Trades Description Act, so far nobody has been as far as I am aware, but it will rightly happen sooner than later. When this is raised with some of the nurseries they simply just don't 'get it' or more likely just don't care just as long as the customer coughs some cash. In the context of what appears on IPNI = RBG Kew and in association with the USA's Grays, the fact that a name appears there Kew themselves quite correctly are the first to state without equivocation that they are anxious to have corrections and missing entries brought to their attention, something which happens I am told all the time. We now know that every single taxon attributed e.g. to Lilium pyrenaicum as a subspecies and or as a varietas at Kew's IPNI is not possibly so as the science now conclusively demonstrates. There are for example currently familiar species names amongst Chinese lilies which on investigation by myself and others it appears they have never been formally published anywhere, some only mentioned within Institutions whose then political influences prevented them from working within the internationally accepted protocols. How can this be remedied? the topic is under discussion and being dealt with as diplomatically as possible by somebody who lives there now and is highly respected by them. I hope the above is in some way helpful but I think in future I would be better to keep my counsel because the very last thing I want is to upset anyone, life is just too short and there are way too many nice folk around to inadvertently upset any of them. Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 114887 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu Oct 8 22:54:07 2009 Message-Id: <4ACEA5C7.1080609@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Kniphofia Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:53:59 +1300 This is one of my queries in the garden. All I know that it is a Kniphofia. http://www.flickr.com/photos/plantlover/3994690428/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/plantlover/3994688778/ Ina Auckland, New Zealand From oothal@hotmail.com Thu Oct 8 22:58:50 2009 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Lily nomenclature Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 21:58:48 -0500 Hi All, After reading this I was saddened. > > I hope the above is in some way helpful but I think in future I would be better to keep my counsel because the very last thing I want is to upset anyone, life is just too short and there are way too many nice folk around to inadvertently upset any of them. > > Iain > So let me get this straight. Mary Sue says Iain is an "expert" on Lilium, and that most of the rest of us are "gardeners" of which I am. It is us "gardeners" that rely on the experts for advice and information. An "expert" gives input on naming and now says he wont share his knowledge because people got upset because he said a few words about naming? Would someone please tell me how this is good thing? The best way for us to learn is through discussion and conversation. Without either, this club is just a bulb exchange, (By the way Dell does a fantastic job!!!) but the bulb exchange was not the reason for me to join. I joined because I wanted to learn as much as I can about bulbs and growing them. Should we not be trying to encourage more "experts" into contributing rather than trying to discourage them? Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu Oct 8 23:18:07 2009 Message-Id: <4ACEAB66.2090706@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Kniphofia Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:17:58 +1300 Oh dear, I thought it was a corm and as such came under bulbs, but I don't think it is now. Sorry..... This is one of my queries in the garden. All I know that it is a Kniphofia. http://www.flickr.com/photos/plantlover/3994690428/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/plantlover/3994688778/ Ina Auckland, New Zealand From perdy@mts.net Thu Oct 8 23:22:19 2009 Message-Id: <145F8021CD77457EA1B54FFD694D6084@DAndersonPC> From: "D Anderson" Subject: Kniphofia Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 22:22:10 -0500 Hi, Ina: We can't view your pictures because you have them on private. You'll have to change the two pictures to be public. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ina" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: [pbs] re Kniphofia > Oh dear, I thought it was a corm and as such came under bulbs, but I > don't think it is now. Sorry..... > > This is one of my queries in the garden. All I know that it is a > Kniphofia. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/plantlover/3994690428/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/plantlover/3994688778/ > > Ina > > Auckland, New Zealand > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu Oct 8 23:44:10 2009 Message-Id: <4ACEB184.7040006@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Kniphofia Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:44:04 +1300 Oh dear, this should show better. Does anyone know what one it is? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3994690428_23d047a421.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg Thanks for that Donna. Ina Hi, Ina: We can't view your pictures because you have them on private. You'll have to change the two pictures to be public. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba From meneice@att.net Fri Oct 9 00:17:34 2009 Message-Id: <2110FA35B2194D028654AA5E4569BFDE@DF5XS5C1> From: Subject: Lily nomenclature Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 21:17:29 -0700 Justin, I am another learner and I concur completely with your sentiments. Shirley Meneice From LucGBulot@aol.com Fri Oct 9 03:18:18 2009 Message-Id: <8CC16C7B60DF605-443C-20D27@webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : re Kniphofia Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:17:36 -0400 Hello Ina, Only the following one : http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg opens for me. Windows says "image currently unavailable for the other one. It is not easy to give an identification with the full plant only. A close up on the flowers would greatly help. How tall is the plant when in bloom ? Most commonly cultivated Kniphofia species include K. praecox, K. linearifolia, K. uvaria, K. multiflora, K. caulescens and a variety of attractive cultivars. At first sight and because of the upright straight leaves that looks fibrous and the deflexed stamens I would favour K. uvaria or one of the cultivars and/or hybrid involving this species. Luc Oh dear, this should show better. Does anyone know what one it is? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3994690428_23d047a421.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg Thanks for that Donna. Ina Hi, Ina: We can't view your pictures because you have them on private. You'll have to change the two pictures to be public. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba -----E-mail d'origine----- De : Ina A : Pacific Bulb Society Envoyé le : Vendredi, 9 Octobre 2009 4:44 Sujet : Re: [pbs] re Kniphofia Oh dear, this should show better. Does anyone know what one it is? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3994690428_23d047a421.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg Thanks for that Donna. Ina Hi, Ina: We=2 0can't view your pictures because you have them on private. You'll have to change the two pictures to be public. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri Oct 9 03:32:59 2009 Message-Id: <4ACEE721.1010508@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: : re Kniphofia Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:32:49 +1300 That is weird as they are both the same system. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3994690428_23d047a421.jpg This is a closer look of it. Hopefully it works this time. Ina Only the following one : http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg opens for me. Windows says "image currently unavailable for the other one. It is not easy to give an identification with the full plant only. A close up on the flowers would greatly help. How tall is the plant when in bloom ? Most commonly cultivated Kniphofia species include K. praecox, K. linearifolia, K. uvaria, K. multiflora, K. caulescens and a variety of attractive cultivars. At first sight and because of the upright straight leaves that looks fibrous and the deflexed stamens I would favour K. uvaria or one of the cultivars and/or hybrid involving this species. Luc Oh dear, this should show better. Does anyone know what one it is? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3994690428_23d047a421.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg Thanks for that Donna. Ina Hi, Ina: We can't view your pictures because you have them on private. You'll have to change the two pictures to be public. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba -----E-mail d'origine----- De : Ina A : Pacific Bulb Society Envoyé le : Vendredi, 9 Octobre 2009 4:44 Sujet : Re: [pbs] re Kniphofia Oh dear, this should show better. Does anyone know what one it is? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3994690428_23d047a421.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg Thanks for that Donna. Ina Hi, Ina: We=2 0can't view your pictures because you have them on private. You'll have to change the two pictures to be public. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba From LucGBulot@aol.com Fri Oct 9 03:51:55 2009 Message-Id: <8CC16CC6CEB4A82-443C-21053@webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : Re : re Kniphofia Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:51:21 -0400 Still the same problem... can you post the picture as an attache file to my private address ? lucgbulot@aol.com Luc -----E-mail d'origine----- De : Ina A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Envoyé le : Vendredi, 9 Octobre 2009 8:32 Sujet : [pbs] Re : re Kniphofia That is weird as they are both the same system. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3994690428_23d047a421.jpg This is a closer look of it. Hopefully it works this time. Ina Only the following one : http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg opens for me. Windows says "image currently unavailable for the other one. It is not easy to give an identification with the full plant only. A close up on the flowers would greatly help. How tall is the plant when in bloom ? Most commonly cultivated Kniphofia species include K. praecox, K. linearifolia, K. uvaria, K. multiflora, K. caulescens and a variety of attractive cultivars. At first sight and because of the upright straight leaves that looks fibrous and the deflexed stamens I would favour K. uvaria or one of the cultivars and/or hybrid involving this species. Luc Oh dear, this should show better. Does anyone know what one it is? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3994690428_23d047a421.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg Thanks for that Donna. Ina Hi, Ina: We can't view your pictures because you have them on private. You'll have to change the two pictures to be publi c. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba -----E-mail d'origine----- De : Ina A : Pacific Bulb Society Envoyé le : Vendredi, 9 Octobre 2009 4:44 Sujet : Re: [pbs] re Kniphofia Oh dear, this should show better. Does anyone know what one it is? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3994690428_23d047a421.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3994688778_0ddc42c440.jpg Thanks for that Donna. Ina Hi, Ina: We=2 0can't view your pictures because you have them on private. You'll have to change the two pictures to be public. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba From christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk Fri Oct 9 04:16:24 2009 Message-Id: <35853A08CFFB814F8A5A1185D8630994B838ED@vsmail2.rhs.net> From: Subject: Kniphofia Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 09:12:10 +0100 Still only able to see the distant one. An important character in Kniphofia identification is flowering time. Can I presume that it is flowering now and that you are in New Zealand. This would mean that it is a late winter spring flowering species/hybrid. If this is the case, along with the quite glaucous foliage, K. sarmentosa (or what is sold as K. sarmentosa, as many so called species in cultivation are usually hybrid seedlings) is a likely option. The other possibility, not being familiar with New Zealand seasons, is K. ensifolia subsp. ensifolia, but I would expect the stamens to be more visible and the leaves broader. However, pinning down cultivated Kniphofia is notoriously difficult, there are just too many unnamed hybrid seedlings out there. Chris From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri Oct 9 04:40:21 2009 Message-Id: <4ACEF6CD.20905@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Kniphofia Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:39:41 +1300 It is in the middle of spring here now, yes. 90cms tall at this stage. Am not used to the Flickr site and didn't want to make the photos public. Last time I used it this way it worked find, however, have now made the photos public. I hope this works. http://www.flickr.com/photos/plantlover/3994690428/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/plantlover/3994688778/ Ina Still only able to see the distant one. An important character in Kniphofia identification is flowering time. Can I presume that it is flowering now and that you are in New Zealand. This would mean that it is a late winter spring flowering species/hybrid. If this is the case, along with the quite glaucous foliage, K. sarmentosa (or what is sold as K. sarmentosa, as many so called species in cultivation are usually hybrid seedlings) is a likely option. The other possibility, not being familiar with New Zealand seasons, is K. ensifolia subsp. ensifolia, but I would expect the stamens to be more visible and the leaves broader. However, pinning down cultivated Kniphofia is notoriously difficult, there are just too many unnamed hybrid seedlings out there. Chris __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4491 (20091008) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Fri Oct 9 09:39:54 2009 Message-Id: <820521.60947.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Finding Botanical Literature, a how to. Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 06:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Finding relevant botanical literature, especially protologues or older Flora’s when there was not so much lumping taking place, on the internet is relatively easy if you know what you are looking for. Here is how I begin:   For example I have a taxonomic interest in Polygonatum, so I start with http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/home.do, where I get a list of all the species named that Kew has listed, though I have found several Kew has not listed.   Then for access to many journals, though not all are open access, Acta Phytotaxonomica Sinica and Acta Botanica Yunnanica are, and have a wealth of PDF’s with information, well, if you read Latin protologues or Chinese. http://www.e-journals.org/botany/   The following two have essentially the same databases, but sometimes have differing papers available. Both are my second and third choices after Kew to find available literature, especially the second link which has an outstanding number of older obscure journals available. http://botanicus.org/, http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/   If the previous two fail to turn up what I am searching for I go here; http://scholar.google.com/. Google has done an amazing job, better than even CabAbstracts and Web of Science available in most libraries. Sadly, many articles do not have free access so you can purchase them, find a friend, or go to your closest state university and go to their library and download them. Most universities have guest logins or no password required to use the public university library. JSTOR has an extensive list of digitized journals available through your university or maybe local library. For stuff that even Biodiversity Heritage does not have or takes too long to download go here: http://books.google.com/bkshp?hl=en&tab=sp. Google has done a better job, with smaller sized PDF’s and an amazing number of journals and books available. A lot of old South American Flora’s are freely available.   This also has a number of good journals: http://bibdigital.rjb.csic.es/ing/presentacion.php, and is the only place you can access the old issues of Nuovo Giornale botanico italiano when Pampanini was collecting or naming plants collected from China.   This has some stuff but is fairly limited. http://www.doaj.org/   This is the Smithsonian Botany list and has a fair amount of things listed. http://si-pddr.si.edu/dspace/handle/10088/2471//browse-title  Besides these few listed I have over 50 botanical journals that I have links to, so I can check on a regular basis for new or old issues that are being digitized. Many journals have the current issue available online until the next is released such as, http://www.brit.org/brit-press/jbrit.     With these methods I have found most of the 110 or so Polygonatum, Heteropolygonatum, and Disporopsis protologues. If all these fail I then resort to an Interlibrary Loan to get a PDF copy of the paper. But even that does not work, so I am still waiting on about 6 protologues and time when I can go search the MOBOT herbarium library.  Hope this helps anyone looking for literature.  Aaron Floden   From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Oct 9 10:35:49 2009 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A10CE5747@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: weed problems Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 09:35:25 -0500 Hi David: In commercial landscape settings I've successfully used a pre-emergent herbicide by the product name of Treflan. However some toxicity showed up on Rosaceae (interveinal chlorosis). Treflan is the name used for cottom farmers, can't recall what the name is for the product licensed for landscape use. Large difference in price - the cotton version is much cheaper but the active ingredients are exactly the same. I haven't tried it on geophytes in containers however. The product works by creating a barrier below soil level that kills the germinating epicotyl. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of David Ehrlich Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:40 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] weed problems Dear members,   It was interesting reading the discussion about Roundup last week.  I have a similar problem: pernicious weeds.  I live in a townhouse alongside some birch trees.  As you may know, a single birch produces millions of seed each season - every one viable!  Birch seed seeps in through the tiniest cracks; it gets into everything: bedding, rugs, toweling, pet's hair; it forms windrows in the driveway.  My pots get covered with a "mulch" of viable birch seed.  The second most pernicious weed is Stellaria media.  I'm always amazed at how much of the stuff I have to pull out of every pot.  Then there are the grasses and mustards ....  So you can see, I'd be very interested in finding a commercially available chemical or hormone that would prevent seeds from germinating but which wouldn't affect the growth of bulbs, whether they be dormant, awakening, or in full leaf/bloom.   Thank you, David Ehrlich From detrout@msn.com Fri Oct 9 10:57:57 2009 Message-Id: From: David Trout Subject: Lilium nomenclature Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 10:57:53 -0400 Iain wrote;For good or ill, my approach for the Monograph will be to stick [a] with the Int. Rule of first publication date, due to the increased facility to access previously unrecorded publications often because they were not in English they have been totally missed however now a great deal of new material is becoming better known allowing for a revision which may or may not be welcome, people will be free then as now to use names as they feel... For me the key phrase in that passage is "free then AS NOW..." It occurs to me that, in the U. S. at least, we are free to call anything anything we want. I received some L. leichtlinii maximowiczii in a bulb swap a couple of years ago, where there were called simply "red tiger". I quite enjoyed the detective work, (made exponentially easier by the internet), involved in figuring out what they are. So some of us enjoy gardening more than studying and writing about words and perhaps some enjoy the latter more than the former I enjoy both but have time only to mostly concentrate on the plants. Iain also referred to "...species such as Lilium wilsonii, etc, amongst Japanese lilies which are nothing more than part of the Lilium x elegans complex, all carefully recorded over many centuries by the Japanese but ignored here in the West." I would appreciate knowing the Japanese and other regional names, (and English translations thereof), for the species that grow there. I am sure there is much knowledge being missed due to language differences. The main thing is to enjoy the amazing lifeforms with which we share the planet. The more we know about them, (up to a point?) the more we can enjoy them. David Trout USDA zone 6b From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Fri Oct 9 11:00:11 2009 Message-Id: <410-2200910591509796@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: weed problems Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:00:09 -0400 Treflan is the name used for cottom farmers, can't recall what the name is for the product licensed for landscape use.> It's called "Preen". Mark Mazer Hertford, NC USA Where they are picking cotton in the fields next farm over as we speak.   From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 9 14:08:57 2009 Message-Id: <000301ca490b$8b609130$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium nomenclature Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 14:08:45 -0400 David Trout wrote: “I received some L. leichtlinii maximowiczii in a bulb swap a couple of years ago, where there were called simply "red tiger". I quite enjoyed the detective work, (made exponentially easier by the internet), involved in figuring out what they are.” David, I hope that if you ever decide to distribute those bulbs you will include their history with the bulbs. There are primary hybrids involving Lilium leichtlinii which very closely resemble that species. The ones I’m aware of are older hybrids long out of commerce. I would not want the job of saying with certainty that a given lily of unrecorded provenance which looks like Lilium leichtlinii is in fact that species. Oddly, neither the orange-flowered form nor the yellow-flowered form was ever common in commerce after the Second World War. More recently the names often appear on lists, but I think circumspection is in order. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Oct 9 15:18:37 2009 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: weed problems Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 12:17:24 -0700 The trees that cause me many hours of weeding are bigleaf maples - Acer macrophyllum. Sometimes I use pole pruners and cut off as many bunches of seeds as I can reach. I'm trying to picture birch trees with seeds - I suspect they don't gather them in convenient bunches like the maple does. If I had lots of seedpots and pots with dormant bulbs, I would cover them with a king-sized sheet in seed shedding season. Then - hmm. Into the washer? Your problems may diminish. Birch trees here have problems. European birch has been used a lot here - in parks, gardens and even as a boulevard tree along some of our streets. The tops are now dead, but I can't remember why. Something fairly new here. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers > I live in a townhouse alongside some birch trees. As you may know, > a single birch produces millions of seed each season - every one > viable! Birch seed seeps in through the tiniest cracks; it gets > into everything: bedding, rugs, toweling, pet's hair; it forms > windrows in the driveway. My pots get covered with a "mulch" of > viable birch seed. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 9 15:18:08 2009 Message-Id: <000b01ca4915$35edd3c0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium nomenclature Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 15:17:57 -0400 David Trout quoted Iain: "people will be free then as now to use names as they feel... " and then added " For me the key phrase in that passage is "free then AS NOW..." It occurs to me that, in the U. S. at least, we are free to call anything anything we want" Because this is a gardening list, we routinely commit the sin of omitting the names of the authors of botanical names and the date of publication of such names. And because this is a gardening list, I wouldn't want it any other way. However, this little flap we're having over the name of Lilium leichtlinii is a good example of the occasionally confusing (contentious?) results of that laissez faire attitude. In a technical paper the use of authors' names and dates of publication will go a long way to preventing the confusion. In an informal setting such as this list, we're often left to guess what people mean. I am always perplexed when someone takes personally a vigorous rebuttal to something they have posted. My point of view is that it comes with the territory: there are limitations on how we can express ourselves on this list, limitations which sometimes introduce their own problems. The failure to cite authors and dates is one (but I'm certainly not advocating that we adopt that practice). Another is that italics are not available on this list. There are many name-formatting issues which I would like to discuss on this list, but I've avoided these because we can't use italics. Without italics, any such discussions would be unintelligible or very clumsy - and that would no doubt add fuel to an already potentially inflammable topic. These niceties exist and are appreciated in other, more formal venues simply because they make it easier for us to say what we mean in an efficient way; they make it easy for the reader to understand what we mean on first reading. It has always seemed to me that one of the great values of this list is that we all bring our expertise to these discussions. And since all gardening is local, it should come as no surprise that such expertise is not uniform. As for David Trout's contention that " we are free to call anything anything we want" - if that were true, there wouldn't be libel lawyers. In any case, it's a freedom to be exercised with great caution. I try hard to be up to date in my naming practices, but it's easy to fall behind. In fact, there is no fail-proof rule for the layman to follow in this regard. The editors of popular gardening magazines were tripping over themselves in the past to use the most current name changes. I'm sure this resulted in a lot of confusion and resentment among some readers. My goal, to the extent that I have one, is to match the granularity of name accuracy to the context/audience/readership. And avoiding confusion or ambiguity is more important than that. I hope I've done that in my postings to this list; and if in my enthusiasm to pursue a particular point I occasionally fail to do so in the most mannerly manner, I can only apologize and hope that readers will consider the medium in interpreting the message. By the way, David, I’ve got loads of bulbs of Lilium majoense, L. catesbaei, L. iridollae, and L. spemperviviodes - all named in the spirit of your method – if you are interested in a trade. Funny, they all look a lot like the roots of Ranunculus ficaria. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From adam14113@ameritech.net Fri Oct 9 16:19:08 2009 Message-Id: <12C5F18E656A4C51A98B2BA618F4AB7B@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Lilium nomenclature Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 15:18:48 -0500 Very well and thoroughly stated, Jim. Would that our politicians were so thoughtful and educated in their disciplines. Cheers. You're a good model for me. . But then, there are fewer rules out there for interchange in those other disciplines, away from horticulture and botany, and they're also not yet agreed on, or established over time. . Because this is a gardening list, we routinely commit the sin of omitting the names of the authors of botanical names and the date of publication of such names. And because this is a gardening list, I wouldn't want it any other way. However, this little flap we're having over the name of Lilium leichtlinii is a good example of the occasionally confusing (contentious?) results of that laissez faire attitude. In a technical paper the use of authors' names and dates of publication will go a long way to preventing the confusion. In an informal setting such as this list, we're often left to guess what people mean. I am always perplexed when someone takes personally a vigorous rebuttal to something they have posted. My point of view is that it comes with the territory: there are limitations on how we can express ourselves on this list, limitations which sometimes introduce their own problems. The failure to cite authors and dates is one (but I'm certainly not advocating that we adopt that practice). Another is that italics are not available on this list. There are many name-formatting issues which I would like to discuss on this list, but I've avoided these because we can't use italics. Without italics, any such discussions would be unintelligible or very clumsy - and that would no doubt add fuel to an already potentially inflammable topic. These niceties exist and are appreciated in other, more formal venues simply because they make it easier for us to say what we mean in an efficient way; they make it easy for the reader to understand what we mean on first reading. From khixson@nu-world.com Fri Oct 9 17:09:55 2009 Message-Id: <4ACFA681.6020905@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Lilium and nomenclature Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:09:21 -0700 Jim McKenney wrote: > David Trout wrote: “I received some L. leichtlinii maximowiczii in a bulb > swap a couple of years ago, where there were called simply "red tiger". I > quite enjoyed the detective work, (made exponentially easier by the > internet), involved in figuring out what they are.” > > David, I hope that if you ever decide to distribute those bulbs you will > include their history with the bulbs. Without casting aspersions on anyone, I second this. If you receive catalogs offering Red Tiger, Yellow Tiger, and White Tiger lilies, rest assured that the lilies being offered are in fact hybrids, and probably have little or no ancestry from Lilium lancifolium. The name is familiar, and ordinary gardeners feel re-assured that the lilies offered will grow well after planting. Lilium regale suffers from the same problem, and many of the "royal" lilies offered are lilies, and have trumpet shaped flowers, but are not L. regale. On nomenclature, it has already been pointed out that plant "explorers" (exploiters?) often have access to very limited populations of plants, and atypical garden grown variants are imported as (or are subsequently named as) true species. Even if taken from wild populations, explorers do not see the whole range of variations in most species, and in some instances only select (seed or cuttings) that appears to them to be the most attractive of those seen. Once plant material has been imported, it is often grown by people who are not trying to represent the total range of variation, but what to them appears to be the most attractive, and the (to them) less attractive individuals become expensive compost. Lilium nepalense is an example. The form often seen is a green trumpet with a chocolate throat, very showy when exhibited. In fact this is an uncommon variant, with the "typical" form being a rather dingy yellowish-green trumpet with little or no chocolate throat. The "typical" form may actually be easier to grow, but it makes less of an impact when shown, so everyone wants the showy form. When most people do not know of anything but what appears on a show bench, or images in magazines or books, they assume that L. nepalense should be green and chocolate. As more material becomes available from the wild, it now appears that L. nepalense may even include species like L. ochraceum or even possibly L. brownii, and L. brownii may intergrade with some of the other Chinese trumpet lily species. Until you know the variations, you can't really know what "l. nepalense" actually is. It has been commented on that early plant explorers were often paid in part by bonuses for each new species being introduced. Botanists of the era were aware of that, and, since they were receiving botanical specimens, were rather generous in naming any variant as a new species. Even today, some botanists seem to possess a nationalistic feeling, and will name any variant from their country as a new species. While a local botanist is often a more knowledgeable source than a botanist from say, Kew Gardens, it is wise to be aware of nationalistic feelings, and regard nomenclature with a critical eye. Nomenclature is after all an opinion, based on information available, and if another botanist chooses to have a different opinion, or more information (meaning more variations in plants) becomes available, the same plant may have more than one name--and both are accurate, although not accepted by every botanist or gardener. Newer names are usually based on more complete information, but not always. We, as gardeners, can not keep up with the latest botanical opinions. Even botanists are never completely up-to-date, as they need to review new opinions before accepting them as accurate. The happy fact is, we as gardeners do not need to be botanically accurate. We need to be accurate--use a name that most people accept and understand to describe a particular plant. If there are still questions--someone doesn't understand which plant you are trying to discuss--they can be answered in more detail. Gardeners are usually more interested in growing and using plants than in trying to figure out exactly where a particular plant fits in the great scheme of things beloved of botanists. My sister-in-law calls mockoranges "Syringa" which was what her mother was taught was accurate. I know what plants she is talking about, and she knows that every time she says "Syringa" I understand that she means mockorange, and will tell her "Philadelphus". This has gone on for many years, and the world hasn't ended yet. Ken From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 9 18:15:24 2009 Message-Id: <000901ca492d$f4ecdc40$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium and nomenclature Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 18:15:05 -0400 Ken and I share a love of lilies and their nomenclature, that's for sure. Lilies as a group have a fascinating history thanks to their great beauty and also thanks to certain circumstances in their history. The recent influx of species from China is in many respects a repeat of events of a bit over a century ago. The virtual closing of China to western collectors in the early Twentieth Century, and the eventual disappearance of so many of the early collections in gardens, makes for good food for thought. Of the early importations from China, I can think of only two which have remained in gardens since the days of the early collections: Lilium henryi and L. regale. At the other extreme, a century ago Lilium rosthornii was so little known in the west that many doubted its existence and none of the early lily books discuss it adequately or in a way which suggests contact with the living plant. It is now readily available, and although distinct in some ways from Lilium henryi, it is also so obviously close to it that discussions about its true status continue. Ken mentioned Lilium brownii. (I have spell check on and it very annoyingly "corrected" that to brownie!) Its history teaches us a few things about botanical nomenclature which do not exactly appear in the rules. The originally introduced lily which was given the name Lilium brownii was a clone, apparently sterile, which for long was a specialty of certain European nurseries. It was widely regarded as one of the most exquisitely beautiful lilies known (back then, that was true; but we have much better lilies now). From the beginning there was speculation about its origins - many older writers wondered if it might be a hybrid of Lilium formosanum and one the wild, white flowered Chinese trumpet lilies. This original Lilium brownii was evidently of garden origin, and as is often the case with plants of garden origin, it did not correspond exactly to anything in the wild. Rather than upset the cart unnecessarily, modern botanists for the most part treat the other white-flowered trumpet lilies of southern China as forms of L. brownii; but we should not forget that it is a name based on a garden plant without an exact congener in the wild. A similar example, an example of Ken's comments on plants collected in gardens and then named as "species", is shown in the history of the lily distributed in the early Twentieth Century as Lilium centifolium. The plants which were given this name originated as a seed collection from garden plants in an area of China where nothing like it grew wild in the immediate vicinity. Those associated with its introduction vociferously defended its status as a species or at least a distinct varietas, although as other cooks began to stir the soup problems with this view arose. For one thing, one American lily expert reported that he was able to raise Lilium centifolium from seed of L. leucanthum. This Lilium centifolium should have been treated as a strain of horticultural origin (as were, for instance, the wonderful trumpet lily strains raised by Jan deGraaff later in the century), but once a name gets into the literature it can be a difficult to suppress as the worst weeds in the garden. There are still those who cling to this name centifolium. I have friends who care not a whit for the correct names of their plants. I find that attitude exasperating, but I have to admit that I occasionally envy their clueless joy in their plants. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth Hixson Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:09 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Lilium and nomenclature Jim McKenney wrote: > David Trout wrote: "I received some L. leichtlinii maximowiczii in a bulb > swap a couple of years ago, where there were called simply "red tiger". I > quite enjoyed the detective work, (made exponentially easier by the > internet), involved in figuring out what they are." > > David, I hope that if you ever decide to distribute those bulbs you will > include their history with the bulbs. Without casting aspersions on anyone, I second this. If you receive catalogs offering Red Tiger, Yellow Tiger, and White Tiger lilies, rest assured that the lilies being offered are in fact hybrids, and probably have little or no ancestry from Lilium lancifolium. The name is familiar, and ordinary gardeners feel re-assured that the lilies offered will grow well after planting. Lilium regale suffers from the same problem, and many of the "royal" lilies offered are lilies, and have trumpet shaped flowers, but are not L. regale. On nomenclature, it has already been pointed out that plant "explorers" (exploiters?) often have access to very limited populations of plants, and atypical garden grown variants are imported as (or are subsequently named as) true species. Even if taken from wild populations, explorers do not see the whole range of variations in most species, and in some instances only select (seed or cuttings) that appears to them to be the most attractive of those seen. Once plant material has been imported, it is often grown by people who are not trying to represent the total range of variation, but what to them appears to be the most attractive, and the (to them) less attractive individuals become expensive compost. Lilium nepalense is an example. The form often seen is a green trumpet with a chocolate throat, very showy when exhibited. In fact this is an uncommon variant, with the "typical" form being a rather dingy yellowish-green trumpet with little or no chocolate throat. The "typical" form may actually be easier to grow, but it makes less of an impact when shown, so everyone wants the showy form. When most people do not know of anything but what appears on a show bench, or images in magazines or books, they assume that L. nepalense should be green and chocolate. As more material becomes available from the wild, it now appears that L. nepalense may even include species like L. ochraceum or even possibly L. brownii, and L. brownii may intergrade with some of the other Chinese trumpet lily species. Until you know the variations, you can't really know what "l. nepalense" actually is. It has been commented on that early plant explorers were often paid in part by bonuses for each new species being introduced. Botanists of the era were aware of that, and, since they were receiving botanical specimens, were rather generous in naming any variant as a new species. Even today, some botanists seem to possess a nationalistic feeling, and will name any variant from their country as a new species. While a local botanist is often a more knowledgeable source than a botanist from say, Kew Gardens, it is wise to be aware of nationalistic feelings, and regard nomenclature with a critical eye. Nomenclature is after all an opinion, based on information available, and if another botanist chooses to have a different opinion, or more information (meaning more variations in plants) becomes available, the same plant may have more than one name--and both are accurate, although not accepted by every botanist or gardener. Newer names are usually based on more complete information, but not always. We, as gardeners, can not keep up with the latest botanical opinions. Even botanists are never completely up-to-date, as they need to review new opinions before accepting them as accurate. The happy fact is, we as gardeners do not need to be botanically accurate. We need to be accurate--use a name that most people accept and understand to describe a particular plant. If there are still questions--someone doesn't understand which plant you are trying to discuss--they can be answered in more detail. Gardeners are usually more interested in growing and using plants than in trying to figure out exactly where a particular plant fits in the great scheme of things beloved of botanists. My sister-in-law calls mockoranges "Syringa" which was what her mother was taught was accurate. I know what plants she is talking about, and she knows that every time she says "Syringa" I understand that she means mockorange, and will tell her "Philadelphus". This has gone on for many years, and the world hasn't ended yet. Ken No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.8/2425 - Release Date: 10/09/09 08:10:00 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 9 18:18:30 2009 Message-Id: <000a01ca492e$6de025d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lycoris seed Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 18:18:28 -0400 Seed is ripening on Lycoris longituba here today: nice, big, fat round black seeds. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 9 18:40:12 2009 Message-Id: <001201ca4931$752ed8b0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium 'Red Tiger' Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 18:40:09 -0400 Ken mentioned the lily Red Tiger. As he noted, there are problems with this name. The lily register lists two lilies with this name. One is an old Stone and Payne hybrid from 1967. In the registry it is given a bloom time of August. I’m mentioning the bloom time because this one probably does have Lilium lancifolium (Lilium lancifolium in the sense triploid tiger lily) in its background. I remember growing this lily long ago, and it’s a handsome garden plant. But the red color was the red typical of so many lilies of that time – it’s the vaguely muddy red you get when you cross a lily with anthocyanin color with a lily with xanthin yellows. I would appreciate hearing in a private response to this post from anyone who still grows this plant. The other Red Tiger, about which I know nothing from personal experience, dates from 1963. The parentage reported is unlikely (it is said to be a hybrid of ‘Maxwill’ and Lilium regale among others); the proper name for this one is ‘Red Fox’ . Can anyone tell me if this lily still exists? I have a hunch that the Red Tiger of contemporary catalogs is apt to be whatever recurved, out- or downfacing red lily is in good supply. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From leo@possi.org Fri Oct 9 19:10:11 2009 Message-Id: <89170b90b5cf21b55790034d76a7af86.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: well drained growing media Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 16:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Hello Bob, > I used gray lava rock in pots of moraeas one year and the did terrible > compared to non lava. What about granite instead. Where can it be easily > obtained. The problem is local rock and minerals are cheap and available and not many people ship heavy and cheap products like rock or kitty litter long distances. I don't think there's much granite anywhere near coastal Northern California. There is a lot in the Sierras. If you could put a shovel and a few 5-gallon buckets into your trunk and then dig up a few buckets from some of the streams flowing down from the Sierras to the Central Valley that would be mostly granite. Of course, it's probably illegal plundering of California's natural resources. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From totototo@telus.net Fri Oct 9 19:49:29 2009 Message-Id: <4ACF6997.23887.1D2B@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Lilium nomenclature Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 16:49:27 -0700 On 9 Oct 2009, at 15:17, Jim McKenney wrote: > ...italics are not available on this list. There are many name-formatting > issues which I would like to discuss on this list, but I've avoided these > because we can't use italics. Without italics, any such discussions would be > unintelligible or very clumsy - and that would no doubt add fuel to an > already potentially inflammable topic. The old timers of the net long ago figured out a by-pass around the limitations of ASCII text, following the advice of the Junior Woodchucks' manual "if you can't go over or around an obstacle, go under it." For italics, you put slashes around the italicized text /like this/. For underlining, use underscores _like_this_. And for emphasis (bold, mainly), use asterisks *like* *this*. The mailing list software will not object to such usages. The huge influx of new people onto the net in the last 15 years swamped this convention and it's now largely unknown, but it's still a useful one, much to be admired for the cleverness of those who thought it up during the cybernetic dark ages. And if you use it, Jim, and anyone tries to diss you by saying it's unintelligible or clumsy, let me know and I will growl at them. G-r-r-r-r-r. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 9 20:07:43 2009 Message-Id: <002201ca493d$b06df7b0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium nomenclature Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:07:43 -0400 Good for you, Roger. I've seen those slashes, underscores and asterisks in various posts but had no idea what significance they had (which is an odd thing for me to say now that I think of it - those are some of the same symbols used in wiki markup). I occasionally see postings with lots of gratuitous question marks, and more rarely lots of asterisks. I assume these mean something else (or are associated with certain email programs). Keep that growl handy - I can think of several other places where it might be useful. Jim McKenney From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 9 22:17:56 2009 Message-Id: <002601ca494f$deeda240$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Kerria; was RE: L. maximowiczii syn with variety tigrinum Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 22:17:51 -0400 Roger Whitlock wrote: " Interesting example: Kerria japonica, first named on the basis of the double- flowered form acquired from a horticultural source. It was unassigned to any family because it is so double that the floral anatomy distinguishing families was obliterated. Only when a single flowered form was found growing wild was Kerria finally assigned to the Rosaceae." Roger, this example brought back some memories for me. When I was in my twenties I began to acquire books in earnest, often from English or Continental sources. One prized early acquisition was Gertrude Jekyll's Wood and Garden. My copy is inscribed ( and dated 1899) on the fly leaf with the name of the wife of famous early twentieth century horticulturist. When I was an undergraduate, I had a very unpleasant, disagreeable and ugly instructor in English. He was, as we would say today, a total control freak: there was only one way of doing things, and it was his way. Much as I disliked him, I have to thank him for a habit he imposed on me. He would assign reading material, and we were to write down and look up all unfamiliar words we encountered in that material. His tests rarely involved the content of the assigned reading, but they were sure to test us for the obscure words. I've kept this habit all of my reading life since, and I can't thank him enough for this. To this day, whenever I encounter a word I do not already know, I stop what I’m doing and look it up. Thus, when Jekyll's Wood and Garden arrived, I was on the lookout for obscure words. By that time in my life I already had a grasp of the botanical names of the usual cultivated plants, certainly of the genera and often many of the species. Jekyll did not offer many challenges in that respect: she had done her work well, and we all knew her plant world if not from reading her works, then from pass along accounts. But there was one name which she used which baffled me. On page 50 of Wood and Garden she mentions "Corchorus with its bright-yellow balls..."; in the index entry for this citation she expands the name to Corchorus japonicus. The genus Corchorus is a good genus of the family Malvacae. But the plant Jekyll was referring to was not a tender malvaceous plant. She also mentions this plant (as Corchorus japonicus) in Home and Garden of 1900; my copy of this also is inscribed with another famous name from the horticultural world of the time. Well, I eventually figured out that her Corchorus japonicus was our old friend Kerria japonica. I Googled Corchorus after writing the above, and I noticed several interesting things. C. olitorius (one of the members of the malvaceous genus Corchorus) is evidently sometimes given the vernacular name Jew's Mallow, a vernacular name also sometimes given to Kerria. So the connection and confusion continue to this day. I don’t much envy the circumstances in which many of the young people of today live, but I do envy their youth and its seeming promise of living for a lot longer and, given the ease of learning now with the Internet and good search engines, easily surpassing my generation’s grasp of the world. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From detrout@msn.com Fri Oct 9 22:37:15 2009 Message-Id: From: David Trout Subject: Lilium nomenclature Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 22:37:11 -0400 Jim McKenney wrote, among many other things, "there are limitations on how we can express ourselves on this list, limitations which sometimes introduce their own problems." He may have been referring to italics but these limitations seem to crop up elsewhere as well, since I am not sure what he was trying to say here: "By the way, David, I’ve got loads of bulbs of Lilium majoense, L. catesbaei, L. iridollae, and L. spemperviviodes - all named in the spirit of your method – if you are interested in a trade. Funny, they all look a lot like the roots of Ranunculus ficaria". Firstly I am not sure to what method he is referring, and secondly I think I detect a hint of sarcasm. Never the less, Jim, I've been told not to "distribute" bulbs without "their history", (I wonder how far back "their history" would have to go before distribution would be OK?), and besides I am not interested in "lesser celandine". (yes I looked it up on the internet). Thanks anyway! (insert sincere smiley face here) David zone 6b From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Oct 9 23:43:11 2009 Message-Id: <000001ca495b$c97e7540$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium nomenclature Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 23:43:09 -0400 David wrote: " I think I detect a hint of sarcasm..." David, yes, I was poking fun; but no, it was not meant as sarcasm - I was not trying to draw blood. Evidently you understood what I was intending very well. I thought your statement about calling anything anything was pretty outrageous. I followed your advice and called Ranunculus ficaria lilies. Here's a peace offering. You expressed an interest in learning more about the Japanese lilies and their names. The yearbooks of the North American Lily Society contain many articles on Japanese lilies scattered over the decades since 1947-8. Look in particular for articles authored by Moto'o Shimizu to get started, but there are many others. If you need some help with this, let me know. Jim McKenney From totototo@telus.net Sat Oct 10 13:56:46 2009 Message-Id: <4AD0686C.1874.711DB1@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Lilium nomenclature Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:56:44 -0700 On 9 Oct 2009, at 20:07, Jim McKenney wrote: > I occasionally see postings with lots of gratuitous question marks, and more > rarely lots of asterisks. I assume these mean something else (or are > associated with certain email programs). Likely an encoding problem. Contemporary operating systems are all Unicode- aware and can (in theory) handle any writing system that's been Unicodified, but not all software gets it right. Also, you probably don't have the necessary fonts installed on your machine to render every unicode code point, so if someone sends you an email with (say) Chinese text in it, it will be rendered with some kind of place holder character. Unicode text is most commonly encoded using the variable-length UTF-8 encoding scheme. Under UTF-8, not all bit combinations are valid character encodings. In particular a leading 8-bit byte with a decimal value over 127 (i.e. 0x10-0xFF) is not valid UTF-8. A surprising number of web pages show mis-encoded characters that I suspect are due to software not encoding that range. Ob Bulbs: While driving out in the distant burbs, I passed a house with a large planting of /Crocus speciosus/ 'Albus' in the front yard, flowering in rather weedy turf. It seems clear that the planting is quite old and the bulbs have gradually spread from however many were originally planted. I've posted a photo of this on the Scottish Rock Garden Club's web forums: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4261.msg113957#msg113957 -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From kellyo@wetrock.com Sun Oct 11 04:27:59 2009 Message-Id: <4AD1349D.30360.1803DA57@kellyo.wetrock.com> From: "Kelly O'Neill" Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 01:27:57 -0700 > The literature has > stated for years not to apply under 70 > degrees but I will now do so. Under 70 is fine. Some sprays such as Crossbow are not supposed to be sprayed when temps are OVER something like 60 degrees due to volatility (evaporation and drifting fog issues). Kelly O'Neill http://www.bigbubblers.com and and Wet Rock Gardens Flower Farm 2877 N 19th Street - Springfield, Oregon 97477 U-Pick and more at the farm (open 9 to 6, Sun, Wed and Fri - from March thru Halloween) kellyo@wetrock.com - http://www.wetrock.com From kellyo@wetrock.com Sun Oct 11 04:33:53 2009 Message-Id: <4AD135EA.23909.1808EC21@kellyo.wetrock.com> From: "Kelly O'Neill" Subject: Use of Roundup Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 01:33:30 -0700 > then sprayed with > Roundup in a strong mix, I treat fresh cut stumps of vines and weed trees with various strong mixtures. When spraying roundup on perennial weeds, though, I try not to make it strong. If you do, the top growth of what you spray may die too quickly for the roots to get poisoned well. Kelly O'Neill http://www.bigbubblers.com and and Wet Rock Gardens Flower Farm 2877 N 19th Street - Springfield, Oregon 97477 U-Pick and more at the farm (open 9 to 6, Sun, Wed and Fri - from March thru Halloween) kellyo@wetrock.com - http://www.wetrock.com From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Oct 11 14:30:01 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: COlchicum nomenclature Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:29:50 -0700 We've recently had a lot of discussion about nomenclature in the genus Colchicum. I find that there is a major article on the subject by Karin Persson in Botanischer Jahrbucher 127.2:165-242 (2007). It is available for download at www.ingenta.com, but you have to pay $42 (US) for the privilege, and without getting a look at it first, I'm not sure I want to pay that much. I think I'll see if I can get it free at an institutional library that subscribes to the service. It would probably be too big a document for my dial-up connection, anyway. Jane McGary From ds429@comcast.net Mon Oct 12 09:10:18 2009 Message-Id: <000b01ca4b3d$5847f700$08d7e500$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:10:17 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 221" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jim Waddick: 1.Seeds of Lycoris sprengeri This is a smaller size Lycoris with variable flower color from rich pink to nearly all blue. Most flowers are some shade of pink with 'electric' blue petal tips. Height around 15 inches. For more information see http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lycoris/Garden_Lycoris_and_More. pdf and pix at http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lycoris This is obviously a fertile diploid and the parent of many lovely hybrids. Seeds should be planted immediately as they lose viability quickly. From Ron Vanderhoff: (BULBS) 2. Oxalis obtusa MV4748 Typical obtusa. Very close to 'Primrose', but slightly paler. Winter to mid spring blooming. 3. Oxalis pocockiae Small leaved and flowered, low growing with pink flowers. Can be very invasive in mild climates - develops large quantities of crown bulbils. 4. Oxalis polyphylla var. heptaphylla MV4381B Airy, thin, linear leaflets with Light to medium pink flowers. Fall blooming. 5. Oxalis pulchella var. tomentosa Low, pubescent, mat forming foliage and large very pale salmon colored flowers. Fall blooming. 6. Oxalis purpurea 'Garnet' Well known deep purple foliage and hot pink flowers with yellow throat. Winter thru spring blooming. 7. Oxalis purpurea 'Grand Dutchess Pink' An especially vigorous strain with large flowers. Winter thru spring blooming. 8. Oxalis purpurea 'Grand Dutchess White' An especially vigorous strain with large flowers. Winter thru spring blooming. 9. Oxalis purpurea 'Lavender & White' Winter thru spring blooming. 10. Oxalis purpurea 'Lavender' (ecklonii var sonderii) Winter thru spring blooming. 11. Oxalis purpurea 'Pink' Winter thru spring blooming. 12. Oxalis species (probably O. ciliaris) 13. Oxalis species ULI61 Probably an O. flava selection. Thin, nearly linear leaves. Yellow flowers with a nice pale red margin on the tepal undersides. Fall blooming. 14. Oxalis versicolor MV7424 The "candy-stripe Oxalis" with white flowers and red edges on the margins of the tepal undersides. Winter thru early spring blooming. 15. Oxalis zeekoevleyensis A prolific little Oxalis forming colonies of green foliage and lavender-pink flowers. Fall to early winter blooming. From Mary Sue Ittner: 16. Cormlets of Freesia fucata, blooms in fall for me, white flowers From Byron Amerson: 17. Seed of Lilium humboldti from plants sown from seed supplied by Theodore Payne in 2004. Open-pollinated. 18. Seed of Dichelostemma 'Pink Diamond' from bulbs.com. These plants were open-pollinated by a local hummingbird. From Mark Mazer: 19. Bulblets of Narcissus bulbicodium var conspicuis ex NARGS 01-2719 20. Bulblets of Narcissus bulbicodium ssp obesus ex NARGS 01-2718 21. Bulblets of Narcissus bulbicodium ex NARGS 01-2714, Morocco 22. Bulblets of Lachenalia juncifolia 23. Bulblets of Lachenalia elegans var suaveolens Thank you, Jim, Ron, Mary Sue, Byron, and Mark !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From jegrace@rose.net Mon Oct 12 10:43:57 2009 Message-Id: <20091012144357.6F4904C00E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "jegrace" Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:43:56 -0400 Hi, Dell Please send: 1,5,7,9,13,14,18,22,23 Thanks! Erin Grace 200 Sawgrass Lane Thomasville, GA 31757 From jegrace@rose.net Mon Oct 12 11:28:46 2009 Message-Id: <20091012152846.1CCDB4C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "jegrace" Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:28:45 -0400 I am so sorry! That email was to go privately to Dell. Erin Grace From 2ann.b@coosnet.com Mon Oct 12 11:40:59 2009 Message-Id: <9C67422204274605BC82CEE9B72E84D7@AnnBrowningPC> From: "Ann Browning" <2ann.b@coosnet.com> Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:40:48 -0700 No problem! Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "jegrace" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 08:28 Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 >I am so sorry! That email was to go privately to Dell. > > Erin Grace > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From ds429@comcast.net Mon Oct 12 14:06:22 2009 Message-Id: <002201ca4b66$b4b15b70$1e141250$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:06:21 -0400 Would Ann like to join PBS? ;<{)) -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of jegrace Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:29 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 I am so sorry! That email was to go privately to Dell. Erin Grace From byron.amerson@gmail.com Mon Oct 12 16:10:23 2009 Message-Id: <8b1330f60910121310s45a5261ah262417a33fa0f129@mail.gmail.com> From: Byron Amerson Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:10:01 -0700 Hi all, A minor note of correction on Pacific BX 211, lest I contribute to /Lilium/ nomenclature problems: Item 17 should read Lilium humboldtii (note the addition of the second "i"). I misspelled it when I sent notes to Dell. Also, these seeds were derived from plants that were hand pollinated, rather than open pollinated. Cheers, Byron From 2ann.b@coosnet.com Mon Oct 12 18:55:16 2009 Message-Id: <24149CF0D5A64A0FB4B7154B4CA689F9@AnnBrowningPC> From: "Ann Browning" <2ann.b@coosnet.com> Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:55:07 -0700 Ann would dearly love to do so, were it not for the fact that our financial position can best be described as "prone!" I am living on disability, and fighting (still, after 2+ years!) with SAIF regarding being beaten up at work. "If you have but two loaves of bread, sell one, and with the money, buy hyacinths to feed the soul." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dell Sherk" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:06 Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 > Would Ann like to join PBS? ;<{)) > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of jegrace > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:29 AM > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 > > I am so sorry! That email was to go privately to Dell. > > Erin Grace > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From ds429@comcast.net Tue Oct 13 16:41:40 2009 Message-Id: <003d01ca4c45$92b4b050$b81e10f0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:41:42 -0400 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of jegrace Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 10:44 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 Hi, Dell Please send: 1,5,7,9,13,14,18,22,23 Thanks! Erin Grace 200 Sawgrass Lane Thomasville, GA 31757 From JmsJon664@aol.com Tue Oct 13 16:46:46 2009 Message-Id: <8CC1A5D5FF666C1-5E58-1E24@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:46:29 -0400 Hi Dell, Somehow this was sent to me. For myself, I asked for 4, 5, 15, 22, 23. Jim Jones -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 4:41 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of jegrace Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 10:44 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 Hi, Dell Please send: 1,5,7,9,13,14,18,22,23 Thanks! Erin Grace 200 Sawgrass Lane Thomasville, GA 31757 From ds429@comcast.net Tue Oct 13 17:37:53 2009 Message-Id: <009301ca4c4d$70b31de0$521959a0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 221 CLOSED Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:38:01 -0400 Another overwhelming response! Packages will go out asap. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From ds429@comcast.net Tue Oct 13 17:39:14 2009 Message-Id: <009801ca4c4d$a0884b80$e198e280$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 221 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:39:21 -0400 Oh my mistake, Jim. Your reply will be arriving soon. Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of jmsjon664@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:46 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 Hi Dell, Somehow this was sent to me. For myself, I asked for 4, 5, 15, 22, 23. Jim Jones -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 4:41 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of jegrace Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 10:44 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 221 Hi, Dell Please send: 1,5,7,9,13,14,18,22,23 Thanks! Erin Grace 200 Sawgrass Lane Thomasville, GA 31757 From plicht@berkeley.edu Wed Oct 14 14:05:59 2009 Message-Id: <4AD612FB.9030101@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Aroid lovers meeting Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:05:47 -0700 For those of you interested in aroids and in the Bay Area this weekend, the annual meeting of the west coast chapter of the Aroid Society will meet at UC David at noon, Oct. 18. The first, organizational, meeting was held at UC Botanical Garden in Berkeley last winter. Our plan is to combine meetings with interesting collections or places to visit. All are welcome. Details available at http://www.aroid.org/westcoast/ -- Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu From ksayce@willapabay.org Wed Oct 14 21:01:56 2009 Message-Id: <59B85860-85A2-4B0B-930B-56A796D19A52@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Timber Press sale Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:01:27 -0700 Timber press is having a 30% sale right now, if there are long- desired titles that are still available, now might be the time to get them. Kathleen On Willapa Bay, where 40 mph winds and rain have stripped flowers from almost everything left in bloom, including fall crocus. From eez55@earthlink.net Wed Oct 14 21:55:24 2009 Message-Id: <380-22009104151551915@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Timber Press sale Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:55:19 -0400 It looks like this sale is only for those who subscribe to the Timber Press e mail newsletter (which would be a good reason to subscribe!) Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA USA > [Original Message] > From: Kathleen Sayce > To: > Date: 10/14/2009 9:01:58 PM > Subject: [pbs] Timber Press sale > > Timber press is having a 30% sale right now, if there are long- > desired titles that are still available, now might be the time to get > them. > Kathleen > On Willapa Bay, where 40 mph winds and rain have stripped flowers > from almost everything left in bloom, including fall crocus. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Oct 14 22:15:58 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:15:17 -0700 Today I was in Cost Plus to restock the low-budget wine cellar, and as usual perused the aisles of odd food products. I noticed a familiar face on a package of chips: Sir Joseph Banks, the famous 18th-century botanist. "Banks Chips" are made from cassava root -- a geophyte, sort of -- and are apparently marketed as a healthy alternative to potato chips, despite being processed with the very unhealthy palm oil. Of course, in devotion to Sir Joseph, I had to try them. Not really delicious, but his botanizing is noted in the text on the back of the package. Jane McGary Northwest Oregon, USA From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed Oct 14 22:31:37 2009 Message-Id: <4AD68986.1010806@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:31:34 +1300 But at least people with Coeliac disease can eat them, which is more than can be said for almost any other chips. So thank goodness for botanising Joseph Banks. I didn't realise about the Palm oil, oh dear. Ina New Zealand From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Wed Oct 14 23:04:28 2009 Message-Id: <269714.33310.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks, palm oil Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:04:26 -0700 (PDT)  How is palm oil unhealthy? To the contrary it is far healthier than anything you could pick up in the average grocery other than olive oil, non-chemical treated coconut oil, pure unadulterated lard, or grassfed non-antiobiotic raised butter (all the except olive oil are difficult to get in most groceries).  Now ecologically it may be harmful, but soy, corn, rapeseed, etc are equally if not more harmful, especially if the area being farmed for each was compared.  Aaron Floden --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Jane McGary wrote: alternative to potato chips, despite being processed with the very unhealthy palm oil. From jacobknecht@gmail.com Wed Oct 14 23:57:12 2009 Message-Id: <2f42069d0910142056y69aefc2fv880d13613700c0cb@mail.gmail.com> From: Jacob Knecht Subject: O/T (was) Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks, palm oil Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:56:46 -1000 Aloha friends, Thank you Jane for your interesting anecdote. Also happy autumn/spring to all of you :) I wish to add my voice in this now 'O/T' on a very matter very important to me re: palm oil production. For anyone who is deeply concerned about the incredibly rapid loss of biodiversitiy in the tropics via deforestation I would suggest doing some quick internet searches on how both legal and illegal palm oil plantations tacitly sanctioned by various governments such as that of Indonesia could destroy nearly every patch of forest on Borneo (just one example) within the coming decade (and this includes the loss of countless geophytic species). Jacob Uluwehi Knecht Honolulu, Hawai'i P.S. Yes I do owe some of my PBS list friends some private emails. I Thank you for your enduring patience as things are quite hectic over on my end. I have not forgotten any of you. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu Oct 15 15:09:48 2009 Message-Id: <334016.95446.qm@web84308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks, palm oil Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?"     Because, here in the US, we tend to associate heart disease with meat consumption, I was really surprised when an Indian friend called my attention to the very high rate of heart disease in India (where so many people are largely if not entirely vegetarians) and other parts of  southeastern Asia. She attributed to the high levels of palm oil consumption in those areas.   I took her word for it and have not researched this myself, so if you are seriously interested in this, do some more research.   Jim McKenney Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?" From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Thu Oct 15 15:17:07 2009 Message-Id: <433698.2594.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: palm oil Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Too much oleic acid is the likely cause.  We, or possibly the indians, need a higher proportion of the omega 3 in our diet (american fried food or saturated or stable oil diet especially in processed foods is low in omega 3).   I take borage or flax seed oil to at least correct the omega 3 imbalance but the pure consumption of fats and saturated stuff is another matter (need exercise I guess).   I'm not a physician but I did stay at a holiday inn express.   James Frelichowski   --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Jim McKenney wrote: From: Jim McKenney Subject: Re: [pbs] Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks, palm oil To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 12:09 PM Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?"     Because, here in the US, we tend to associate heart disease with meat consumption, I was really surprised when an Indian friend called my attention to the very high rate of heart disease in India (where so many people are largely if not entirely vegetarians) and other parts of  southeastern Asia. She attributed to the high levels of palm oil consumption in those areas.   I took her word for it and have not researched this myself, so if you are seriously interested in this, do some more research.   Jim McKenney Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?" From paph2@earthlink.net Thu Oct 15 15:28:57 2009 Message-Id: From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: palm oil Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:27:24 -0700 Palm oils are rich in saturated fats and we all know that is unhealthy and leads to nasty problems in arteries unless you drink lots of red wine like our French friends. In the USA palm oil is used for making soap among other things but we should not eat it. Harold At 12:16 PM 10/15/2009, you wrote: >Too much oleic acid is the likely cause. We, or possibly the >indians, need a higher proportion of the omega 3 in our diet >(american fried food or saturated or stable oil diet especially in >processed foods is low in omega 3). > >I take borage or flax seed oil to at least correct the omega 3 >imbalance but the pure consumption of fats and saturated stuff is >another matter (need exercise I guess). > >I'm not a physician but I did stay at a holiday inn express. > >James Frelichowski > > > >--- On Thu, 10/15/09, Jim McKenney wrote: > > >From: Jim McKenney >Subject: Re: [pbs] Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks, palm oil >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 12:09 PM > > >Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?" > > >Because, here in the US, we tend to associate heart disease with >meat consumption, I was really surprised when an Indian friend >called my attention to the very high rate of heart disease in India >(where so many people are largely if not entirely vegetarians) and >other parts of southeastern Asia. She attributed to the high levels >of palm oil consumption in those areas. > >I took her word for it and have not researched this myself, so if >you are seriously interested in this, do some more research. > >Jim McKenney >Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?" >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jshields@indy.net Thu Oct 15 15:30:17 2009 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20091015152301.01c0a3b0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Off Topic. Was: Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks, palm oil Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:30:10 -0400 I used to be a biochemist, but my speciality was diabetes, not lipids per se. I recalled the facts more or less as put forward in this: http://www.cspinet.org/palmoilreport/PalmOilReport.pdf Basically, palm oil contains saturated fats. These are the components in beef that make it less healthful as a major component of diets. Since these "healthy diet" things are epidemiological in basis, the Luddites with vested interests can quibble (but that does not make them right). Jim Shields retired biochemist At 12:09 PM 10/15/2009 -0700, you wrote: >Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?" > > >Because, here in the US, we tend to associate heart disease with meat >consumption, I was really surprised when an Indian friend called my >attention to the very high rate of heart disease in India (where so many >people are largely if not entirely vegetarians) and other parts >of southeastern Asia. She attributed to the high levels of palm oil >consumption in those areas. > >I took her word for it and have not researched this myself, so if you are >seriously interested in this, do some more research. > >Jim McKenney >Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?" ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu Oct 15 21:53:34 2009 Message-Id: <556310.85094.qm@web84301.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Ceratostigma plumbaginoides; was Colchicum byzantinum and friends Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Jane McGary wrote: "I hope to combine the big colchicums with Ceratostigma plumbaginoides if I can just figure out the trick to propagating the latter. (It ought to be a no-brainer, but nothing I try results in a quantity of viable plants.)"   Jane, for many years I had a nice planting of Ceratostigma plumbaginoides (about three square yards in area) underplanted with the large-flowered tessellated colchicums sold as "The Giant" or "Giant". For me, it was one of those combinations which, while it looked great on paper so-to-speak, was not completely satisfying in the garden. Why? Becasue the blue of the Ceratostigma is a very chilly blue, and the color of the colchicums is equally cold.   Ceratostigma plumbaginoides ramps like a champ here, and it eventually invaded a clump of Sternbergia lutea. Now that's a combination to love! Those two really sing well together. I'm redoing big sections of the garden right now, and I'm looking around for a place to prominently show off that pairing.    Because the leadwort emerges so late in our climate, extensive plantings of it don't have much to offer early in the year.  One way to take advantage of that is to underplant the leadwort with early blooming plants which are summer dormant. But to my tastes, an even better way to take advantage of that space early in the year is to underplant thickly with Lycoris. Their foliage will be up and busy from late winter into late spring; by the time the leadwort kicks in, the lycoris will be dying back.   Lycoris radiata, L. sanguinea. L. sprengeri (in other words, lower growing sorts) and Sternbergia lutea (and if it grows in the garden for you, Rhodophiala bifida) make for a merry show when blooming over a thick mat of leadwort. This is also a great place for any hardy Zephyranthes or  Habranthus. And if your climate allows, this is also a great way to grow Tigridia pavonia.   Jane, you mentioned problems with propagation of Ceratostigma plumbaginoides. Here I just dig it up, pull apart the wiry tangle, and replant the pieces (which rarely have much in the way of a root system).   I got my start with Ceratostigma manyt years ago from a commercial source which for one season only offered six-packs of plants (propagated evidently by cuttings and probably under greenhouse conditions because they were sent out early in the year).     I've tried C. willmottianum here without much success, but for years a thick plant of C. griffithii has done very well in one of my cold frames. However, this species comes into bloom very late (it has not started yet) and would be a dubious choice for me as a garden plant.   Jim McKenney From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Fri Oct 16 07:15:12 2009 Message-Id: <264906.36802.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Off Topic. Was: Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks, palm oil Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:14:59 -0700 (PDT)  Here in the US saturated fats, from meats (beef), are considered the main cause of heart disease, but it is shown in many many studies that this is not the case. In the US there is also a large imbalance in Omega-3 and Omega-6, with most Americans having a 1:6 ratio, when they should be balanced. This is due to our industrial feedlots that use corn to fatten everything -- beef, chicken, pork, trout, salmon, etc... Grass fed, cage free, natural meats have this all balanced. Meat grading standards are based on the marbling of fat within the meat and the more marbling the better quality! But, grassfed steaks have less marbling, are more tender, and have way more flavor than feedlot produced steaks.  There is also a problem with the number of polyunsaturated fats that we eat that have been stabilized and made less healthy and hydrogenated oils. Saturated fats are necessary for healthy cholesterol levels which helps the immune system, make vitamin-D (which most people have very low levels of), and the development of normal cell walls.  The French after all love their duck and goose fat, lard, butter, and cream (and so do I) and it is not the wine that solves the problem of eating so many saturated fats, it is just that saturated fats are not bad for you. The Masai are a cow based culture (meat and dairy) and have no heart problems, the Tibetans are/were based on Yak milk-butter, the Inuit are animal fat based and eat lots of fish and had no major problems until recently, etc..  Cytokine levels are more of an indicator in heart failure than cholesterol levels as shown by numerous studies.  The palm oil report follows the typical point of view against saturated fats, but most of the paper is devoted to the environmental cause, which should be addressed adequately, but not by misinformation. They even state that palm oil plants " yield 10 times more pounds of oil per acre than soybeans" so why not attack soy production which is grown over a larger area of space and is being grown in biodiverse South American habitats?  Aaron Floden      On Fri, 10/16/09, J.E. Shields wrote: From: J.E. Shields Subject: [pbs] Off Topic. Was: Snacks with Sir Joseph Banks, palm oil To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 3:30 AM I used to be a biochemist, but my speciality was diabetes, not lipids per se. I recalled the facts more or less as put forward in this: http://www.cspinet.org/palmoilreport/PalmOilReport.pdf Basically, palm oil contains saturated fats.  These are the components in beef that make it less healthful as a major component of diets.  Since these "healthy diet" things are epidemiological in basis, the Luddites with vested interests can quibble (but that does not make them right). Jim Shields retired biochemist At 12:09 PM 10/15/2009 -0700, you wrote: >Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?" > > >Because, here in the US, we tend to associate heart disease with meat >consumption, I was really surprised when an Indian friend called my >attention to the very high rate of heart disease in India (where so many >people are largely if not entirely vegetarians) and other parts >of  southeastern Asia. She attributed to the high levels of palm oil >consumption in those areas. > >I took her word for it and have not researched this myself, so if you are >seriously interested in this, do some more research. > >Jim McKenney >Aaron asked "How is palm oil unhealthy?" ************************************************* Jim Shields             USDA Zone 5             Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92              WWW:    http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344     or      toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Oct 16 12:38:07 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Ceratostigma plumbaginoides; was Colchicum byzantinum and friends Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:33:27 -0700 Jim McKenney wrote, >Ceratostigma plumbaginoides ramps like a champ here, and it >eventually invaded a clump of Sternbergia lutea. Now that's a >combination to love! Those two really sing well together. I'm >redoing big sections of the garden right now, and I'm looking around >for a place to prominently show off that pairing. > >Because the leadwort emerges so late in our climate, extensive >plantings of it don't have much to offer early in the year. One way >to take advantage of that is to underplant the leadwort with early >blooming plants which are summer dormant. But to my tastes, an even >better way to take advantage of that space early in the year is to >underplant thickly with Lycoris. Their foliage will be up and busy >from late winter into late spring; by the time the leadwort kicks >in, the lycoris will be dying back. > >Lycoris radiata, L. sanguinea. L. sprengeri (in other words, lower >growing sorts) and Sternbergia lutea (and if it grows in the garden >for you, Rhodophiala bifida) make for a merry show when blooming >over a thick mat of leadwort. This is also a great place for any >hardy Zephyranthes or Habranthus. And if your climate allows, this >is also a great way to grow Tigridia pavonia. I wouldn't plant sternbergia with Ceratostigma ("leadwort") because the foliage of the perennial is too tall and would interfere with the proper character of the sternbergias (that is, the latter would grow but would have to stretch inappropriately to rise above the leadwort). Lycoris flowers poorly, if at all, in the Pacific Northwest, probably because of the cool summer nights that result from low atmospheric humidity, and the same is true of Zephyranthes and Habranthus and Rhodophiala bifida. And, of course, Tigridia is just a bedding annual here, unless one should have a remarkably protected site. My choice for another season of flower in such a planting is large daffodils in spring and hardy alstroemerias in summer. The alstroemeria foliage is at its best before the ceratostigma foliage develops. This plan does require several major clean-up operations but I think that's manageable. As for the color combination, when we think of that, we have to consider the effect of the foliage too -- ceratostigma is far more leaf than flower, and here the leaves color beautifully in fall. Perhaps one could add some foliage that would moderate the color relationships, such as a pale tan clump-forming sedge (also beautiful in spring with tulips). Moreover, although the larger colchicums (unless white) are all in the same general color range, there is variation, particularly since many of them have prominent white central zones. A combination that is enjoyable today is gray-leaved mat-forming thyme with some of the little Colchicum species, notably C. procurrens, which seems quite at home in an unirrigated terrace with a deep sand and gravel topping. The fall crocuses are popping up in the front lawn, where ants apparently have transported the seeds of Crocus pulchellus and C. kotschyanus. A crocus that can be grown in taller vegetation is C. speciosus, a very hardy one that tolerates summer water. Many crocuses grow in grazed grassland in nature, and I feel that the density of the sod helps protect the corms against rodents. This exchange is a perfect example of why the recommendations in garden books have to be evaluated against local experience. Just as it might never occur to a writer from Jim's area (the mid-Atlantic coastal region) not to recommend Lycoris for general use throughout North America, the same writer might never consider using Pacific coastal species of Alstroemeria, which may not flourish where subjected to summer rainfall. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Oct 16 13:00:31 2009 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A10DAC2A9@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Colchicum and companions Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:00:08 -0500 Hi Jane and Jim: Particularly striking right now are clumps of Colchicum (darker colored flowers) inter-planted with Heuchera (maroom to silver gray foliage) and in a second location with Sedum (with purple foliage). Both Heuchera and Sedum gladly fill in the gap left by the Colchicum foliage. The white flowered cultivars really show up well as they pop up through the Phlox subulata groundcover. The Colchicum foliage dies back early enough to allow the Phlox to fill in before the flowers appear. Cool (to cold) rainy weather in the Chicago region has prolonged the flowering of many of the Colchicum. Snails and slugs were a problem on the earlier flowering species and cultivars but one combination of Colchicum and blue sheeps fescue was nice. The problem is the seedlings of the fescue don't come true (steely gray blue color). Wish I had thought about that before I let the grass go to seed! Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From loujost@yahoo.com Fri Oct 16 14:16:24 2009 Message-Id: <841886.75961.qm@web63404.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: ecological effects of palm oil production Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:16:23 -0700 (PDT) I live in Ecuador and can speak to the destruction that palm oil is causing. Palm oil is the current driving force behind the near-100% destruction of the western Ecuadorian rain forests, and production is starting on the eastern (Amazonian) side. Before this, it was cattle. The root problem is not any particular crop, but the existence of so many people in Latin America that want western developed-world lifestyles and cash flows. This is unfortunate but understandable given the difficulty of rural life in western Ecuador (read "A Farm on the River of Emeralds" for an insightful view of life here for poor people--it is a classic, unique book). Solutions are difficult to find. Here in South America, palm oil is touted now for biofuels production, so even if we stopped eating it, this would not end its production. Biofuels are a political and economic scam that all of us should fight. Many studies have shown that when crops are grwon specifically for biofuel production, the energy used to grow, harvest, transport, and convert the crop is about the same (and sometimes less than) the amount of energy produced. This makes no sense and will destroy virtually all remaining undeveloped arable lowland tropical forest. LJ From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri Oct 16 16:45:27 2009 Message-Id: <957214.94721.qm@web84305.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Narcissus 'Maximus' Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:45:25 -0700 (PDT) I've just acquired some bulbs of the ancient (> 400 year old) daffodil hybrid 'Maximus', a plant known in the older literature as Narcissus hispanicus var. maximus among other names. This plant is evidently a triploid clone and is presumed to be derived in some way from Narcissus hispanicus. I would cite it as another example of the way the triploid condition, when it works at all, seems to impart virtual immortality in plants. I went back and read the account of this plant in Bowles and was astonished to read that he records a height of 30" and more for the flowering scapes. I don't think I've ever seen a daffodil that tall. Are there any daffodil enthusiasts out there who can corroborate that height? Jim McKenney From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Oct 17 11:54:16 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Colchicum and companions Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:02:26 -0700 Boyce Tankersley recommended colored-leaf heucheras with COlchicum, and this is pretty -- I have several such combinations in the garden. However, you have to propagate a lot of the heuchera (or spend a lot at the garden center) to get an effective ground cover out of it. I think the sedum and also the Phlox subulata that Boyce recommends might suffer from the dying colchicum foliage flopping over on their mats, though. Phlox subulata does not die back in winter here as it apparently does for Boyce in Chicago; in the Northwest it is evergreen. Here we mostly grow the smaller selections, suitable for rock gardens. If you can find a medium-sized sort of geranium that is sterile, such as G. x cantabrigense 'Biokovo', this works well with colchicums also. Some of the G. renardii selections and hybrids are not invasive and have pretty, soft grayish foliage; they do not seed here. Their full growth tends to arrive just as the colchicum leaves are falling over. Of course, most of you probably cut off the colchicum leaves as soon as possible to keep your gardens neat, but I rarely get to it, except in the most noticeable positions! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From oothal@hotmail.com Fri Oct 16 22:37:23 2009 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: uncanny smarts from a very dumb bulb Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:37:21 -0500 Hi All, Today the north wind was blowing in a nice cool breeze. So I started potting up some bulbs that had outgrown their pot last winter. I had them tucked away in my house for the constant temp and humidity free climate. Lachenalia uridiflora, their name tag showed. When I looked inside the paper bag I noticed that they had already started to sprout. If they had a voice I think they would say that I was too slow at getting them into some soil. I am amazed that they know the proper time without a wrist watch, calendar or even a sun dial. If I could just get them to learn to plant themselves, then I could sit back and just enjoy the blooms. Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ From johnstone.jr@gmail.com Sat Oct 17 01:16:31 2009 Message-Id: <4ad9532d.9453f10a.6844.ffff8d2c@mx.google.com> From: "J. R. Johnstone" Subject: uncanny smarts from a very dumb bulb Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:16:39 -0400 Thanks for your postings. I am so glad you are on this list. I automatically read a post, which ordinarily wouldn't interest me, if I see your name listed as a poster. Warmest regards, J. R. Johnstone Madison, West Virginia, U.S.A. From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Oct 17 02:44:26 2009 Message-Id: <8443kq$e3v31j@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out4.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: uncanny smarts from a very dumb bulb Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:44:14 +1100 > >Today the north wind was blowing in a nice cool breeze. So I started >potting up some bulbs that had outgrown their pot last winter. I had >them tucked away in my house for the constant temp and humidity free >climate. Lachenalia uridiflora, their name tag showed. When I looked >inside the paper bag I noticed that they had already started to >sprout. If they had a voice I think they would say that I was too >slow at getting them into some soil. > >I am amazed that they know the proper time without a wrist watch, >calendar or even a sun dial. If I could just get them to learn to >plant themselves, then I could sit back and just enjoy the blooms. > Justin, You could always just leave them in their pots all year, repotting them as needed and replanting immediately. They seem to do fine for me here, even in the ground in some cases. Somewhere out of the heavier frosts would be a perfect location for them, and then you (nor they for that matter) would need to plant (or plant themselves) and you COULD just sit back and enjoy the blooms. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Sat Oct 17 13:21:17 2009 Message-Id: <3b9284cd0910171021r13cd5b3cj278145a046aef1a9@mail.gmail.com> From: "J. Agoston" Subject: Colchicum and companions Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:21:12 +0200 Dear Jane, I think you can also use Tellima grandiflora and Tiarella cordifolia or Ti. wherryii. The latter two are spreading on long horizontal shoots and rooting at the nodes just like stawberry. There are red leaved varieties too. Give a try and you will see. Bye, Jan, Hungary From JmsJon664@aol.com Sat Oct 17 16:12:01 2009 Message-Id: <8CC1D7D351BAE41-11F8-9965@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Amaryllis again Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:11:55 -0400 I kept my Amaryllis belladonna completely dry over the summer and it is now rewarding me with flowers. Its foliage remained mostly green. Exposed to the weather last summer it failed to bloom. I assume Justin is referring to Lachenalia viridiflora. Jim Jones Lexington, MA From oothal@hotmail.com Sat Oct 17 18:59:58 2009 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Amaryllis again Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:59:57 -0500 Well in all actuality, after careful microscopic, electro magnetic spectrification and radioactive carbon dating, the bag does show Lachenalia uridiflora. I can only presume that the gravitational vortices that impregnate the inner and outer layers of the paper have caused the top right potion of the "v" to be connected to the top of the "i" in my sloppy handwriting. Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a > > I assume Justin is referring to Lachenalia viridiflora. > > Jim Jones > Lexington, MA _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ From ds429@comcast.net Sun Oct 18 12:32:01 2009 Message-Id: <000c01ca5010$86fdcfc0$94f96f40$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 222 Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:32:04 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 222" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jim Waddick: (Seeds) Seeds have a limited viability and should be planted immediately. Press seeds into soil and cover with 1/2 inch of soil.        1. Lycoris longituba  Pure species, Limited number of seeds  This is one of the largest hardy species with large flowers on stately stalks in early fall. Totally hardy in USDA Zone 5. 2. Lycoris Mixed hybrids - These are mostly L. longituba, L. chinensis and L. sprengeri grown together. Parents are both pure species and mixed hybrids. Expect mostly seedlings to have either tall stems with cream or yellow colored flowers or smaller plants with pink flowers. Some will be golden yellow, white or peach colored intermediates. 3. Lycoris chinensis mix -  These are mostly collected from golden yellow L. chinensis parents, but growing in a mix with L. longituba so expect some pale colored hybrids and various flower forms. From Nhu Nguyen:(Seeds, some in limited supply) 4. Rhodophiala advena - this is a light colored form, pinkish 5. Lilium parryi - selfed 6. Lilium pardalinum 7. Galtonia viridiflora - selfed 8. Brodiaea californica - open pollinated 9. Lachenalia splendida - open pollinated 10.Amaryllis belladonna From Leo Martin: (Seeds)(ex Silverhill) 11. Babiana sinuata, winter grower, summer dormant. Big sprays of small lavender and greenish-yellow flowers, highly scented, easy. 12. Chlorophytum? undulatum, upright spikes of many white flowers, not showy but nice. Very tough, easy to g\row plant winter grower, summer dormant From Tim Chapman: 13. Seeds of Costus speciosus 14. Seeds of Curcuma cordata, white 15. Bulbils of Globba globulifera From Bob Werra (Seeds): 16. Calochortus amabilis 17. Calochortus amoenus 18. Calochortus catalinae 19. Calochortus clavatus 20. Calochortus monophyllus 21. Calochortus obispoensis 22. Calochortus plummerae 23. Calochortus umbellatus 24. Calochortus uniflorus 25. Calochortus vestae, pink 26. Calochortus vestae, white 27. Calochortus weedii Thank you, Jim, Nhu, Leo, Tim, and Bob !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX         From jshields104@comcast.net Sun Oct 18 15:49:21 2009 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20091018154154.01c64ef8@mail.comcast.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Blooming in Westfield Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:49:06 -0400 The Colchicum atropurpureum is slowly increasing in flowers. It is by far the last colchicum left blooming here. The Sternbergia lutea are approaching full bloom now as well. And finally, the 6 Crocus nudiflorus corms I received from Jane in 2004 (Jane, we are going to miss your surplus bulbs badly!) are starting to flower, and seem to have increased to 8. Cr. nudiflorus I've had previously never bloomed and eventually disappeared completely. I was quite surprised and delighted to see the nudiflorus blooming yesterday, as I had completely forgotten about them. Thank you, Jane! Pictures of these flowers will eventually show up in my blog at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/index.html Jim Shields in sunny but cool Westfield, Indiana USA ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From dkramb@badbear.com Sun Oct 18 19:25:47 2009 Message-Id: <4ADBA418.4030907@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: winter care for Polianthes Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 19:26:16 -0400 I bought several Polianthes this season which are growing in pots outdoors. We had our first freeze last night, but they seem to be okay. When I do finally bring them indoors is there any particular care they need? Do I unpot them and store in the cool dry basement? Do I set them on a warm windowsill and continue providing water? Dennis in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA (zone 6) From ds429@comcast.net Sun Oct 18 19:54:34 2009 Message-Id: <000001ca504e$569e5a50$03db0ef0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: winter care for Polianthes Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 19:54:31 -0400 Hi Dennis, I leave mine in their pots and do not water them through winter in my cool greenhouse (min 35-40 F). They bloom well until they become crowded, and need a lot of water in the summer. But the best flowering came when I planted them out in the garden, fed and watered them regularly, and dug them up after a frost, dried them off and stored them in dry peat moss, and planted them out in early summer. When they are crowded, they split into pieces that are too small to bloom, so it is best to keep them in clumps separated from their neighbors by at least a foot. P. tuberosa has one of my favorite flower fragrances. I grow it for that alone. Dell, Zone 6 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Kramb Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:26 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] winter care for Polianthes I bought several Polianthes this season which are growing in pots outdoors. We had our first freeze last night, but they seem to be okay. When I do finally bring them indoors is there any particular care they need? Do I unpot them and store in the cool dry basement? Do I set them on a warm windowsill and continue providing water? Dennis in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA (zone 6) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Oct 18 19:57:19 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Blooming in Westfield Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:57:06 -0700 Jim SHields wrote, >the 6 Crocus nudiflorus >corms I received from Jane in 2004 (Jane, we are going to miss your surplus >bulbs badly!) are starting to flower, and seem to have increased to 8. Cr. >nudiflorus I've had previously never bloomed and eventually disappeared >completely. The same stock is flowering here in both the garden and the bulb frame. This is one of the hardier fall-blooming crocuses and probably one that is best adapted to summer-rainfall climates. It's welcome for its strong violet color. When you lift this crocus, you will usually find curious cormlets with long white "droppers". I don't know whether these are vegetative increase or whether they result from seeds in capsules that remain buried rather than extending on stems when the seeds are ripe. You can plant these little ones out separately and they will bloom in another 2 years. You need not miss the surplus bulbs for too long, because I've been sharing my stock with Mark Akimoff of Illahe Nursery in Salem, Oregon, who is increasing them for eventual mail-order sale. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From maxwithers@gmail.com Tue Oct 20 00:02:20 2009 Message-Id: <51e9bfed0910192102g680f5e36xc9f0aa47c24cc55e@mail.gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Lachenalia in the ground Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:02:19 -0700 Justin's amusing and accurate -- aside from the species name! -- email reminded me of my Lachenalia dilemma. I have two very happy species (aloides and liliiflora) in pots that I'd like to put in the ground. I have tried this before, with a hybrid called 'Elizabeth' I think, and slugs ended my experiment before I could evaluate it. So: does anyone grow Lachenalia outdoors in Mediterranean climates plagued with gastropods? How do you do it? Best, Max Withers Oakland CA Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:37:21 -0500 From: Justin Smith Subject: [pbs] uncanny smarts from a very dumb bulb ... Today the north wind was blowing in a nice cool breeze. So I started potting up some bulbs that had outgrown their pot last winter. I had them tucked away in my house for the constant temp and humidity free climate. Lachenalia uridiflora, their name tag showed. When I looked inside the paper bag I noticed that they had already started to sprout. If they had a voice I think they would say that I was too slow at getting them into some soil. ... Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a From oothal@hotmail.com Tue Oct 20 10:41:36 2009 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Lachenalia in the ground Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:41:27 -0500 Hi All, If you do it right, you could have beautiful flowers and a successful French restaurant. Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a > > So: does anyone grow Lachenalia outdoors in Mediterranean climates plagued > with gastropods? How do you do it? > > Best, > Max Withers > Oakland CA _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ From mikemace@att.net Tue Oct 20 14:53:32 2009 Message-Id: <000601ca51b6$9dd2b510$d9781f30$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Lachenalia in the ground Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:53:30 -0700 Max wrote: >> does anyone grow Lachenalia outdoors in Mediterranean climates Yes. Several different species. In some spots they have persisted for several years; in others they died out gradually. I think the places where they died out were too damp in summer (at the edge of a lawn). > plagued with gastropods? How do you do it? Snail bait every couple of weeks. Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F) From klazina@orcon.net.nz Tue Oct 20 15:33:27 2009 Message-Id: <4ADE1082.2030700@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Lachenalia in the ground Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:33:22 +1300 I have upside down terra cotta pots where snails are bad, which they love, so can dispose of them that way. Also use Quash, a NZ snail and slug killer which has iron as it's base so doesn't harm birds etc. The Lachenalias survive just fine, and have now finished here. Ina Auckland New Zealand So: does anyone grow Lachenalia outdoors in Mediterranean climates plagued with gastropods? How do you do it? Best, Max Withers Oakland CA Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:37:21 -0500 From: Justin Smith Subject: [pbs] uncanny smarts from a very dumb bulb ... Today the north wind was blowing in a nice cool breeze. So I started potting up some bulbs that had outgrown their pot last winter. I had them tucked away in my house for the constant temp and humidity free climate. Lachenalia uridiflora, their name tag showed. When I looked inside the paper bag I noticed that they had already started to sprout. If they had a voice I think they would say that I was too slow at getting them into some soil. ... Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4524 (20091019) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From oothal@hotmail.com Wed Oct 21 00:08:12 2009 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: gladiolus pic Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:01:47 -0500 Hi all, Back in the spring my brother hauled me off to take pics and while he went tromping down the road I stayed with the car. I saw this glad blooming on the fence line. It was a long way from any house, so I presume the area was once an old home place and it had naturalized there. I was wondering if anybody would know if this is either an old hybrid or one new. The roadway itself dates back to about the 1840's or so when it was used to bring in supplies to Nacogdoches. Though I don't think this variety of glad is anywhere near that old. But it is fun to imagine just when this bulb found it's home here in Texas. Pic of it here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oothal/4030925870/ For all I know it could have been bought at Wally World last year. There were also clumps of other bulbs that I highly suspect are a Narcissus of some kind. They had already finished blooming. I plan on looking for them next spring and just see what they are. Justin Woodville, Tx 8b/9a _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Wed Oct 21 04:15:36 2009 Message-Id: <46AFFBBB-FA5A-47A9-A3E9-081D73B0661E@tiscali.it> From: giorgio pozzi Subject: flower record database Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:15:30 +0200 hello all, I uploaded here a zipped file with a runtime standalone solution for PC users ( in next days I'll post the Mac file ) the name is MY FLOWERS.rar Link to file: https://download.yousendit.com/YkxMV284TkxJMHRjR0E9PQ you may download and unzip, then open the folder and double click the icone with the arrow, browse the database and if you feel interesting you may use for recording your purchases, after deleting the example records feel free to mail me with any suggestion for improvements, I yet setted a new version with a field to record where the bulbs/plants are planted in the garden.... it is now a standard field with 14 sites ..... Giorgio Pozzi studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From nikko123@btinternet.com Wed Oct 21 06:04:46 2009 Message-Id: <153285.3853.qm@web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: NICHOLAS DE ROTHSCHILD Subject: gladiolus pic Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:04:32 +0000 (GMT) Definitely Gladioli Dalenii- an African specie where it was discovered in South Africa KwaZulu-Natal in 1820, now very widespread worldwide- notable for its importance in human pharmacopea used for the treatment of diarrhea and colds! Also called Dragon's Head Lily. Parrot lily, Natal Lily, Sword lily.... --- On Wed, 21/10/09, Justin Smith wrote: From: Justin Smith Subject: [pbs] gladiolus pic To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Wednesday, 21 October, 2009, 3:01 AM Hi all, Back in the spring my brother hauled me off to take pics and while he went tromping down the road I stayed with the car. I saw this glad blooming on the fence line. It was a  long way from any house, so I presume the area was once an old home place and it had naturalized there. I was wondering if anybody would know if this is either an old hybrid or one new. The roadway itself dates back to about the 1840's or so when it was used to bring in supplies to Nacogdoches. Though I don't think this variety of glad is anywhere near that old. But it is fun to imagine just when this bulb found it's home here in Texas. Pic of it here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oothal/4030925870/ For all I know it could have been bought at Wally World last year. There were also clumps of other bulbs that I highly suspect are a Narcissus of some kind. They had already finished blooming. I plan on looking for them next spring and just see what they are. Justin Woodville, Tx  8b/9a                           _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ From jshields@indy.net Wed Oct 21 06:19:50 2009 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20091021061847.00c5ea80@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: gladiolus pic Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:19:49 -0400 They look like G. dalenii to me. These should be hardy in Texas. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From adam14113@ameritech.net Wed Oct 21 11:34:23 2009 Message-Id: <16035DF01B9D42F59F269E286C2D03BF@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: gladiolus pic Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:31:58 -0500 My dalenii isn't that pretty nor are the colors so distinct . ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] gladiolus pic > They look like G. dalenii to me. These should be hardy in Texas. > > Jim Shields > > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 21 11:58:45 2009 Message-Id: <20091021155838.883984C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: flower record database Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:58:11 -0700 Hi, Giorgio sent me a copy of the flower data base he created for PCs. For all of you who are thinking about creating a data base for your bulbs or for that matter for your garden and especially for those of you who aren't familiar with data bases and would find the task of creating one a bit daunting, here is your opportunity. He has made a couple of fake entries just so you can see how you might fill in the blanks. The site he posted it on is a free file transfer site where you can quickly download big files that someone else has posted. I've used it before for sharing large files that would take a long time to transfer otherwise. They only keep the files up for a week however, so if you have a PC and are interested you should act soon and the same when he sends the link to the one for Macs. It is very generous of Giorgio to provide this to members of this list. Mary Sue >the name is MY FLOWERS.rar >Link to file: >https://download.yousendit.com/YkxMV284TkxJMHRjR0E9PQ From plicht@berkeley.edu Wed Oct 21 12:37:02 2009 Message-Id: <4ADF3899.5090008@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: flower record database Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:36:41 -0700 I haven't been following this database issue closely so excuse me if this is redundant. In any case, there is a free PC program from Google called Picasa which is fantastic for maintain images. We use it for the 15gb of files here in the Garden and I couldn't do without it. http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Picasa?hl=en Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Hi, > > Giorgio sent me a copy of the flower data base he created for PCs. > For all of you who are thinking about creating a data base for your > bulbs or for that matter for your garden and especially for those of > you who aren't familiar with data bases and would find the task of > creating one a bit daunting, here is your opportunity. He has made a > couple of fake entries just so you can see how you might fill in the > blanks. The site he posted it on is a free file transfer site where > you can quickly download big files that someone else has posted. I've > used it before for sharing large files that would take a long time to > transfer otherwise. They only keep the files up for a week however, > so if you have a PC and are interested you should act soon and the > same when he sends the link to the one for Macs. > > It is very generous of Giorgio to provide this to members of this list. > > Mary Sue > > >> the name is MY FLOWERS.rar >> Link to file: >> https://download.yousendit.com/YkxMV284TkxJMHRjR0E9PQ >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From oothal@hotmail.com Wed Oct 21 12:49:39 2009 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: gladiolus pic Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:49:38 -0500 When I saw this glad it was the last of the bloom stalks from the hundred or so bulbs I saw. It was most spectacular. Quite tall too, though the glads were in competition for light from native bushes. Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a > From: adam14113@ameritech.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:31:58 -0500 > Subject: Re: [pbs] gladiolus pic > > My dalenii isn't that pretty nor are the colors so distinct > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed Oct 21 13:01:39 2009 Message-Id: <208696.21505.qm@web86301.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: flower record database Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:01:36 +0000 (GMT) Hi Mary Sue   As this is a .rar zipped file please can you tell us the space needed for installation, empty or with the 100's of pants you have no doubt already added. I suspect the space needed together with the unzipping software may push my current space limits. Must get a new computer now we have Win 7.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 ish. Hi, Giorgio sent me a copy of the flower data base he created for PCs. For all of you who are thinking about creating a data base for your bulbs or for that matter for your garden and especially for those of you who aren't familiar with data bases and would find the task of creating one a bit daunting, here is your opportunity. He has made a couple of fake entries just so you can see how you might fill in the blanks. The site he posted it on is a free file transfer site where you can quickly download big files that someone else has posted. I've used it before for sharing large files that would take a long time to transfer otherwise. They only keep the files up for a week however, so if you  have a PC and are interested you should act soon and the same when he sends the link to the one for Macs. It is very generous of Giorgio to provide this to members of this list. Mary Sue From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 21 13:35:51 2009 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: flower record database Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:34:25 +0100 In message <208696.21505.qm@web86301.mail.ird.yahoo.com>, Brian Whyer writes >As this is a .rar zipped file please can you tell us the space needed >for installation, empty or with the 100's of pants you have no doubt >already added. It takes 168MB and that includes the six example entries. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From mikemace@att.net Wed Oct 21 15:03:35 2009 Message-Id: <003701ca5281$2b699900$823ccb00$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant import regulations Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:03:26 -0700 Today (10/21) at midnight EST is the deadline to submit comments on the US government's proposed plant import regulations, which would create a new category of banned plants that have not yet been evaluated for potential pest status (sometimes referred to as "NAPPRA"). Depending on how it is implemented, it could ban a lot of the seed and bulb importing we do today. There are about 250 comments on the government's comment site now, almost 100% of them in favor of the regulations. In fact, the only dissenting voice I could find was Tony Avent's. Many of the comments are from native plant societies, and are advocating a very draconian version of the regulations. For example, the Virginia Native Plant Society suggests a blanket ban on any plant that does not have a 50-year documented record of being grown outside its native habitat. That would ban many of the plants in our collections today. I won't bother to re-hash the things that I wrote about these regulations before, but you can influence the rule-making process by submitting a comment. In my experience, the government does listen to private comments, and they specifically asked for feedback from private plant groups like PBS. As a PBS member, you are qualified to respond. I just posted a comment. So you know, what I suggested was that the government: --Create a definition for "in cultivation" that includes anything that is currently in cultivation in the US, or has been in the past. --Exempt the small lots of seed program from the regulations (because it has little risk of introducing pests, and the exemption would allow private societies to continue their seed exchanges, which are important to them financially). --Collect information from plant collectors on the invasiveness of imported species. Contact me privately if you want a copy of my comments. If you want to comment, use this web address: http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#home Click on "submit a comment" In "keyword" type: aphis-2006-0011 You will see a list of comments. Click on one of the small icons next to them labeled "submit a comment" This will open a window to submit a comment on that particular comment. Don't do that. Instead, click on the box labeled "Comment directly on proposed rules." This will open a form that lets you comment on the rules themselves. If you want to write something long, you can submit a file. But short comments can be typed directly into the form. Thanks, Mike San Jose, CA From adam14113@ameritech.net Wed Oct 21 16:02:21 2009 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:58:14 -0500 I'm withTony Avent on this--for the most part-- most of his reasoning is sound. Some consideration needs to be given to new species. There is nothing wrong with introductions even if they run wild. They only run wild because they have been put in the wrong places. Kudzu still has good uses, and just because the USDA couldn't predict the future doesn't mean that we should put an embargo on all new species. We cannot predict the future either--so should not place a limit on our curiosity or on seeking new knowledge. This is xenophobia and not sensible inquiry.n It might even be unconstitutional. Much will depend on how the law is written and the subsections. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mace" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations > Today (10/21) at midnight EST is the deadline to submit comments on the US > government's proposed plant import regulations, which would create a new > category of banned plants that have not yet been evaluated for potential > pest status (sometimes referred to as "NAPPRA"). Depending on how it is > implemented, it could ban a lot of the seed and bulb importing we do > today. > > > > There are about 250 comments on the government's comment site now, almost > 100% of them in favor of the regulations. In fact, the only dissenting > voice I could find was Tony Avent's. Many of the comments are from native > plant societies, and are advocating a very draconian version of the > regulations. For example, the Virginia Native Plant Society suggests a > blanket ban on any plant that does not have a 50-year documented record of > being grown outside its native habitat. That would ban many of the plants > in our collections today. > > > > I won't bother to re-hash the things that I wrote about these regulations > before, but you can influence the rule-making process by submitting a > comment. In my experience, the government does listen to private > comments, > and they specifically asked for feedback from private plant groups like > PBS. > As a PBS member, you are qualified to respond. > > > > > > I just posted a comment. So you know, what I suggested was that the > government: > > --Create a definition for "in cultivation" that includes anything that is > currently in cultivation in the US, or has been in the past. > > --Exempt the small lots of seed program from the regulations (because it > has > little risk of introducing pests, and the exemption would allow private > societies to continue their seed exchanges, which are important to them > financially). > > --Collect information from plant collectors on the invasiveness of > imported > species. > > > > Contact me privately if you want a copy of my comments. > > > > > > If you want to comment, use this web address: > > > > http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#home > > > > Click on "submit a comment" > > > > In "keyword" type: aphis-2006-0011 > > > > You will see a list of comments. Click on one of the small icons next to > them labeled "submit a comment" > > > > This will open a window to submit a comment on that particular comment. > Don't do that. Instead, click on the box labeled "Comment directly on > proposed rules." > > > > This will open a form that lets you comment on the rules themselves. If > you > want to write something long, you can submit a file. But short comments > can > be typed directly into the form. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike > > San Jose, CA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hornig@earthlink.net Wed Oct 21 16:30:05 2009 Message-Id: From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: Kudzu revisted (off topic) Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:30:26 -0400 Recently I reread David Fairchild's _The World Was My Garden_ (the truly magical autobiography of one of the great masterminds of US plant introduction), and was amazed to find that he grew kudzu on his own property and then struggled to get rid of it *before* the Soil Conservation Service started planting it widely to control erosion (Fairchild, p. 328). This suggests two things to me: first, a private individual (collector) could in fact be responsible for introducing a pest (Fairchild, realizing his mistake, paid "over two hundred dollars", somewhere between 1900-1905, I believe, to get rid of it, but not everyone would make a comparable investment); second, information does not always travel far and widely enough, because Fairchild was apparently not aware of the Soil Conservation Service's efforts until he saw them written up in a bulletin. There is nothing in his book to suggest he tried to interfere or get them to backtrack. I toss this in only because, self-interest aside, the importation and cultivation of new species is NOT always harmless, private growers CAN get their hands on and circulate a new pest, and I am therefore a fencesitter on the subject of regulation, because I honestly don't know what is the best (or even a good and effective) approach. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Fikso" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations > > I'm withTony Avent on this--for the most part-- most of his reasoning is > sound. Some consideration needs to be given to new species. There is > nothing wrong with introductions even if they run wild. They only run > wild > because they have been put in the wrong places. Kudzu still has good uses, > and just because the USDA couldn't predict the future doesn't mean that we > should put an embargo on all new species. We cannot predict the future > either--so should not place a limit on our curiosity or on seeking new > knowledge. This is xenophobia and not sensible inquiry.n It might even > be > unconstitutional. Much will depend on how the law is written and the > subsections. From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Oct 21 16:34:13 2009 Message-Id: <205C0DA0-CBF7-42C6-9193-9021C07EFC52@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:33:04 -0700 Here's to old species as well - how about reintroducing everything the glaciers eliminated? Diane On 21-Oct-09, at 12:58 PM, Adam Fikso wrote: > Some consideration needs to be given to new species. From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Wed Oct 21 16:58:02 2009 Message-Id: <440611.97730.qm@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Kudzu revisted (off topic) Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:57:55 -0700 (PDT)  Kudzu was not introduced by Fairchild. It was introduced for fragrance in 1876, and likely even before that. It was not until it was widely planted as a make-work program that it began to spread. But, following private property rights, it should be the introducers responsibility to remove an invasive from their own and others property. Fairchild was insightful enough to do it on his own before it became a major problem for him, something very few of our government officials have.   Kudzu has been found to moderate blood glucose levels, aid in the metabolization of fat deposits when consumed and many more uses. It is also edible par-boiled and cooked with butter like spinach.  Aaron Floden --- On Thu, 10/22/09, Ellen Hornig wroteRecently I reread David Fairchild's _The World Was My Garden_ (the truly magical autobiography of one of the great masterminds of US plant introduction), and was amazed to find that he grew kudzu on his own property and then struggled to get rid of it *before* the Soil Conservation Service started planting it widely to control erosion (Fairchild, p. 328).  This suggests two things to me: first, a private individual (collector) could in fact be responsible for introducing a pest (Fairchild, realizing his mistake, paid "over two hundred dollars", somewhere between 1900-1905, I believe, to get rid of it, but not everyone would make a comparable investment); second, information does not always travel far and widely enough, because Fairchild was apparently not aware of the Soil Conservation Service's efforts until he saw them written up in a bulletin.  There is nothing in his book to suggest he tried to interfere or get them to backtrack. I toss this in only because, self-interest aside, the importation and cultivation of new species is NOT always harmless, private growers CAN get their hands on and circulate a new pest, and I am therefore a fencesitter on the subject of regulation, because I honestly don't know what is the best (or even a good and effective) approach. Ellen From samarak@gizmoworks.com Wed Oct 21 18:29:03 2009 Message-Id: From: Steve Marak Subject: Kudzu revisted (off topic) Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:29:01 -0500 (CDT) I live in a kudzu area, though about at the northern limit (NW Arkansas), and I'm sensitive to both sides of this argument. I will say, however, that when I go out to look at wild plants, both here and when visiting other states, the biggest threat to them - and one that makes kudzu look like nothing - is habitat loss. A few big earth-movers can wipe out more natives in a week than kudzu would in many years, and since we live in a developing area, we see that happen now about once a month. Some site where we used to look at a native plant ecosystem is gone, replaced by leveled red dirt. There is one site we monitored for years, as one of the few known locations of Lilium superbum in Arkansas; it was an hour's drive from anything, and about half a mile down a dirt road from a kudzu infestation of probably 20 acres or so, and we always feared the kudzu would run down the road (there were no intervening natural barries) and choke out the lilies. 20 years later, the kudzu is the same size it was then, but the lilies are gone - someone bought the land, brought in tractors and bulldozers, cleared it, put a couple of double-wide trailers on part of it and used the rest for pasture. (A bunch of Cypripedium orchids were also wiped out.) Even in the areas where our state fish and game commission deliberately planted Lonicera japonica for deer browse (and I do hate the stuff), the natives in general seem to persist just fine, until someone cuts the timber. I can't and wouldn't try to speak for every location, and I know there are places where an exotic plant does actively choke out natives, but when I started looking for examples of it around me personally, I didn't find many. But I did see a lot of loss to land development. (Aaron, I took some flowering stems of kudzu to the August meeting of a local gardening group. They were fascinated by the grape fragrance, but only 2 of about 50 realized it was kudzu.) Steve On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, aaron floden wrote: >  Kudzu was not introduced by Fairchild. It was introduced for fragrance > in 1876, and likely even before that. It was not until it was widely > planted as a make-work program that it began to spread. But, following > private property rights, it should be the introducers responsibility to > remove an invasive from their own and others property. Fairchild was > insightful enough to do it on his own before it became a major problem > for him, something very few of our government officials have. >   Kudzu has been found to moderate blood glucose levels, aid in the > metabolization of fat deposits when consumed and many more uses. It is > also edible par-boiled and cooked with butter like spinach. > > --- On Thu, 10/22/09, Ellen Hornig wroteRecently I reread David Fairchild's _The World Was My Garden_ (the truly > magical autobiography of one of the great masterminds of US plant > introduction), and was amazed to find that he grew kudzu on his own property > and then struggled to get rid of it *before* the Soil Conservation Service > started planting it widely to control erosion (Fairchild, p. 328).  This > suggests two things to me: first, a private individual (collector) could in > fact be responsible for introducing a pest (Fairchild, realizing his > mistake, paid "over two hundred dollars", somewhere between 1900-1905, I > believe, to get rid of it, but not everyone would make a comparable > investment); second, information does not always travel far and widely > enough, because Fairchild was apparently not aware of the Soil Conservation > Service's efforts until he saw them written up in a bulletin.  There is > nothing in his book to suggest he tried to interfere or get them to > backtrack. ... -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com From Pelarg@aol.com Wed Oct 21 20:07:01 2009 Message-Id: <8CC20C2A6664DAF-40C4-DD78@webmail-d043.sysops.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:06:34 -0400 I added my two cents in just now, took a while to figure out how to get to the place to add comments. Thanks all for the reminder! Ernie DeMarie Tuckahoe NY Z 7ish where we have had a rare nice weather day, lots of flowers still blooming in gardens very lighty touched by frost. -----Original Message----- From: Adam Fikso To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:58 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations 'm withTony Avent on this--for the most part-- most of his reasoning is ound. Some consideration needs to be given to new species. There is othing wrong with introductions even if they run wild. They only run wild ecause they have been put in the wrong places. Kudzu still has good uses, nd just because the USDA couldn't predict the future doesn't mean that we hould put an embargo on all new species. We cannot predict the future ither--so should not place a limit on our curiosity or on seeking new nowledge. This is xenophobia and not sensible inquiry.n It might even be nconstitutional. Much will depend on how the law is written and the ubsections. ----- Original Message ----- rom: "Michael Mace" o: ent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:03 PM ubject: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant mportregulations Today (10/21) at midnight EST is the deadline to submit comments on the US government's proposed plant import regulations, which would create a new category of banned plants that have not yet been evaluated for potential pest status (sometimes referred to as "NAPPRA"). Depending on how it is implemented, it could ban a lot of the seed and bulb importing we do today. There are about 250 comments on the government's comment site now, almost 100% of them in favor of the regulations. In fact, the only dissenting voice I could find was Tony Avent's. Many of the comments are from native plant societies, and are advocating a very draconian version of the regulations. For example, the Virginia Native Plant Society suggests a blanket ban on any plant that does not have a 50-year documented record of being grown outside its native habitat. That would ban many of the plants in our collections today. I won't bother to re-hash the things that I wrote about these regulations before, but you can influence the rule-making process by submitting a comment. In my experience, the government does listen to private comments, and they specifically asked for feedback from private plant groups like PBS. As a PBS member, you are qualified to respond. I just posted a comment. So you know, what I suggested was that the government: --Create a definition for "in cultivation" that includes anything that is currently in cultivation in the US, or has been in the past. --Exempt the small lots of seed program from the regulations (because it has little risk of introducing pests, and the exemption would allow private societies to continue their seed exchanges, which are important to them financially). --Collect information from plant collectors on the invasiveness of imported species. Contact me privately if you want a copy of my comments. If you want to comment, use this web address: http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#home Click on "submit a comment" In "keyword" type: aphis-2006-0011 You will see a list of comments. Click on one of the small icons next to them labeled "submit a comment" This will open a window to submit a comment on that particular comment. Don't do that. Instead, click on the box labeled "Comment directly on proposed rules." This will open a form that lets you comment on the rules themselves. If you want to write something long, you can submit a file. But short comments can be typed directly into the form. Thanks, Mike San Jose, CA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ bs mailing list bs@lists.ibiblio.org ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed Oct 21 20:33:55 2009 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:33:52 -0700 Weird request (but there is so much knowledge residing in this group, I told my friend I'd try asking): Does anyone out there know of commercial sources of Saffron Crocus bulbs (Crocus sativus) that are in the Southern Hemisphere (Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, etc.)? A friend of mine wants to purchase somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 bulbs to plant at a farm in the southern hemisphere and doesn't want to have to attempt switching hemispheres. (Unless the wholesale price of Dutch bulbs is so cheap that, even with losses, it would still be cheaper to do that than buy them from a southern hemisphere source.) Thanks, --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a From arnold140@verizon.net Wed Oct 21 20:59:50 2009 Message-Id: <2907243.1794.1256173173853.JavaMail.root@vms074.mailsrvcs.net> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:59:33 -0500 (CDT) Lee: It may be cheaper t o get the Crocus from a Dutch wholesale house. I recall buying a couple of hundred from the old Hoog and Dix firm five years ago and I think the price a was around .06 US per bulb or is it corm. Arnold From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed Oct 21 21:37:31 2009 Message-Id: <4ADFB75E.90703@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:37:34 +1300 I know it is grown here in NZ, and there seems to be quite a bit about it on the Internet. Perhaps this site might be of some use. http://www.saffron.co.nz/ Ina Weird request (but there is so much knowledge residing in this group, I told my friend I'd try asking): Does anyone out there know of commercial sources of Saffron Crocus bulbs (Crocus sativus) that are in the Southern Hemisphere (Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, etc.)? A friend of mine wants to purchase somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 bulbs to plant at a farm in the southern hemisphere and doesn't want to have to attempt switching hemispheres. (Unless the wholesale price of Dutch bulbs is so cheap that, even with losses, it would still be cheaper to do that than buy them from a southern hemisphere source.) Thanks, --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4530 (20091021) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From prallen2@peoplepc.com Wed Oct 21 22:11:56 2009 Message-Id: <24142095.1256177503423.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: patty allen Subject: gladiolus pic Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:11:43 -0400 (EDT) HI JUSTIN, THAT IS A PHOTO OF A REALLY OLD GLADIOLA! IT HAS GONE UNDER NUMEROUS NAMES. AS OF RIGHT NOW, IT IS KNOWN AS DALENII, OR PARROT GLAD. SOME OLDTIMERS CALL IT THE"PARROT'S BEAK" GLADIOLA. THERE ARE VARIATIONS IN THE COLORATION OF THESE OLD HEIRLOOM CORMS, FROM A CLEAR ORANGE/RED AND YELLOW AS SHOWN IN A PHOTO ON THE WEBSITE, WWW.BAYOUCITYHEIRLOOMBULBS.COM, TO ONES THAT ARE CALLED "RUSTY PARROTS", BECAUSE OF A "STIPPLED" RUSTY COLOR ON THE PETALS. ALSO THERE SLIGHT VARIATIONS IN THE FORM OR SHAPE OF SOME OF THESE BEAUTIFUL OLD HEIRLOOMS. ALL ARE NEAT THOUGH, NO MATTER IF STIPPLED OR CLEAR. PATTY -----Original Message----- >From: Justin Smith >Sent: Oct 20, 2009 10:01 PM >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: [pbs] gladiolus pic > > >Hi all, > > > >Back in the spring my brother hauled me off to take pics and while he went tromping down the road I stayed with the car. I saw this glad blooming on the fence line. It was a long way from any house, so I presume the area was once an old home place and it had naturalized there. I was wondering if anybody would know if this is either an old hybrid or one new. The roadway itself dates back to about the 1840's or so when it was used to bring in supplies to Nacogdoches. > > > >Though I don't think this variety of glad is anywhere near that old. But it is fun to imagine just when this bulb found it's home here in Texas. > > > >Pic of it here: > > > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/oothal/4030925870/ > > > >For all I know it could have been bought at Wally World last year. There were also clumps of other bulbs that I highly suspect are a Narcissus of some kind. They had already finished blooming. I plan on looking for them next spring and just see what they are. > > > >Justin > >Woodville, Tx 8b/9a > >_________________________________________________________________ >Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. >http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com From mikemace@att.net Wed Oct 21 22:38:44 2009 Message-Id: <000301ca52c0$bb607620$32216260$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Kudzu revisited Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:38:25 -0700 Ellen wrote: >> information does not always travel far and widely enough, because Fairchild was apparently not aware of the Soil Conservation Service's efforts until he saw them written up in a bulletin This is exactly one of the points I tried to make in my comments. In 1900 communication was quite a bit harder, but now that we've got the Internet, it would be easy for the government to collect invasiveness information from folks like us. We could be part of their plant evaluation system. My guess is that if you were ranking the risk of plant invaders, there's a higher risk from plants that are already in the US, but not yet in broad circulation, than there is from entirely new things that have not been imported in the past. I think people like us have already imported most of the pretty stuff that might eventually take off in the nursery trade, and evaluating the risk from that that would be a good way for the government to focus. Mike San Jose, CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 5:34 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 81, Issue 29 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Re: flower record database (David Pilling) 2. Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant import regulations (Michael Mace) 3. Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations (Adam Fikso) 4. Kudzu revisted (off topic) Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations (Ellen Hornig) 5. Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations (Diane Whitehead) 6. Re: Kudzu revisted (off topic) Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations (aaron floden) 7. Re: Kudzu revisted (off topic) Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations (Steve Marak) 8. Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations (pelarg@aol.com) 9. Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources (Lee Poulsen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:34:25 +0100 From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [pbs] flower record database To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed In message <208696.21505.qm@web86301.mail.ird.yahoo.com>, Brian Whyer writes >As this is a .rar zipped file please can you tell us the space needed >for installation, empty or with the 100's of pants you have no doubt >already added. It takes 168MB and that includes the six example entries. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:03:26 -0700 From: "Michael Mace" Subject: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant import regulations To: Message-ID: <003701ca5281$2b699900$823ccb00$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Today (10/21) at midnight EST is the deadline to submit comments on the US government's proposed plant import regulations, which would create a new category of banned plants that have not yet been evaluated for potential pest status (sometimes referred to as "NAPPRA"). Depending on how it is implemented, it could ban a lot of the seed and bulb importing we do today. There are about 250 comments on the government's comment site now, almost 100% of them in favor of the regulations. In fact, the only dissenting voice I could find was Tony Avent's. Many of the comments are from native plant societies, and are advocating a very draconian version of the regulations. For example, the Virginia Native Plant Society suggests a blanket ban on any plant that does not have a 50-year documented record of being grown outside its native habitat. That would ban many of the plants in our collections today. I won't bother to re-hash the things that I wrote about these regulations before, but you can influence the rule-making process by submitting a comment. In my experience, the government does listen to private comments, and they specifically asked for feedback from private plant groups like PBS. As a PBS member, you are qualified to respond. I just posted a comment. So you know, what I suggested was that the government: --Create a definition for "in cultivation" that includes anything that is currently in cultivation in the US, or has been in the past. --Exempt the small lots of seed program from the regulations (because it has little risk of introducing pests, and the exemption would allow private societies to continue their seed exchanges, which are important to them financially). --Collect information from plant collectors on the invasiveness of imported species. Contact me privately if you want a copy of my comments. If you want to comment, use this web address: http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#home Click on "submit a comment" In "keyword" type: aphis-2006-0011 You will see a list of comments. Click on one of the small icons next to them labeled "submit a comment" This will open a window to submit a comment on that particular comment. Don't do that. Instead, click on the box labeled "Comment directly on proposed rules." This will open a form that lets you comment on the rules themselves. If you want to write something long, you can submit a file. But short comments can be typed directly into the form. Thanks, Mike San Jose, CA ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:58:14 -0500 From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Re: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I'm withTony Avent on this--for the most part-- most of his reasoning is sound. Some consideration needs to be given to new species. There is nothing wrong with introductions even if they run wild. They only run wild because they have been put in the wrong places. Kudzu still has good uses, and just because the USDA couldn't predict the future doesn't mean that we should put an embargo on all new species. We cannot predict the future either--so should not place a limit on our curiosity or on seeking new knowledge. This is xenophobia and not sensible inquiry.n It might even be unconstitutional. Much will depend on how the law is written and the subsections. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mace" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations > Today (10/21) at midnight EST is the deadline to submit comments on the US > government's proposed plant import regulations, which would create a new > category of banned plants that have not yet been evaluated for potential > pest status (sometimes referred to as "NAPPRA"). Depending on how it is > implemented, it could ban a lot of the seed and bulb importing we do > today. > > > > There are about 250 comments on the government's comment site now, almost > 100% of them in favor of the regulations. In fact, the only dissenting > voice I could find was Tony Avent's. Many of the comments are from native > plant societies, and are advocating a very draconian version of the > regulations. For example, the Virginia Native Plant Society suggests a > blanket ban on any plant that does not have a 50-year documented record of > being grown outside its native habitat. That would ban many of the plants > in our collections today. > > > > I won't bother to re-hash the things that I wrote about these regulations > before, but you can influence the rule-making process by submitting a > comment. In my experience, the government does listen to private > comments, > and they specifically asked for feedback from private plant groups like > PBS. > As a PBS member, you are qualified to respond. > > > > > > I just posted a comment. So you know, what I suggested was that the > government: > > --Create a definition for "in cultivation" that includes anything that is > currently in cultivation in the US, or has been in the past. > > --Exempt the small lots of seed program from the regulations (because it > has > little risk of introducing pests, and the exemption would allow private > societies to continue their seed exchanges, which are important to them > financially). > > --Collect information from plant collectors on the invasiveness of > imported > species. > > > > Contact me privately if you want a copy of my comments. > > > > > > If you want to comment, use this web address: > > > > http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#home > > > > Click on "submit a comment" > > > > In "keyword" type: aphis-2006-0011 > > > > You will see a list of comments. Click on one of the small icons next to > them labeled "submit a comment" > > > > This will open a window to submit a comment on that particular comment. > Don't do that. Instead, click on the box labeled "Comment directly on > proposed rules." > > > > This will open a form that lets you comment on the rules themselves. If > you > want to write something long, you can submit a file. But short comments > can > be typed directly into the form. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike > > San Jose, CA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:30:26 -0400 From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: [pbs] Kudzu revisted (off topic) Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Recently I reread David Fairchild's _The World Was My Garden_ (the truly magical autobiography of one of the great masterminds of US plant introduction), and was amazed to find that he grew kudzu on his own property and then struggled to get rid of it *before* the Soil Conservation Service started planting it widely to control erosion (Fairchild, p. 328). This suggests two things to me: first, a private individual (collector) could in fact be responsible for introducing a pest (Fairchild, realizing his mistake, paid "over two hundred dollars", somewhere between 1900-1905, I believe, to get rid of it, but not everyone would make a comparable investment); second, information does not always travel far and widely enough, because Fairchild was apparently not aware of the Soil Conservation Service's efforts until he saw them written up in a bulletin. There is nothing in his book to suggest he tried to interfere or get them to backtrack. I toss this in only because, self-interest aside, the importation and cultivation of new species is NOT always harmless, private growers CAN get their hands on and circulate a new pest, and I am therefore a fencesitter on the subject of regulation, because I honestly don't know what is the best (or even a good and effective) approach. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Fikso" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations > > I'm withTony Avent on this--for the most part-- most of his reasoning is > sound. Some consideration needs to be given to new species. There is > nothing wrong with introductions even if they run wild. They only run > wild > because they have been put in the wrong places. Kudzu still has good uses, > and just because the USDA couldn't predict the future doesn't mean that we > should put an embargo on all new species. We cannot predict the future > either--so should not place a limit on our curiosity or on seeking new > knowledge. This is xenophobia and not sensible inquiry.n It might even > be > unconstitutional. Much will depend on how the law is written and the > subsections. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:33:04 -0700 From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Re: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <205C0DA0-CBF7-42C6-9193-9021C07EFC52@islandnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Here's to old species as well - how about reintroducing everything the glaciers eliminated? Diane On 21-Oct-09, at 12:58 PM, Adam Fikso wrote: > Some consideration needs to be given to new species. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:57:55 -0700 (PDT) From: aaron floden Subject: Re: [pbs] Kudzu revisted (off topic) Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <440611.97730.qm@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ?Kudzu was not introduced by Fairchild. It was introduced for fragrance in 1876, and likely even before that. It was not until it was widely planted as a make-work program that it began to spread. But, following private property rights, it should be the introducers responsibility to remove an invasive from their own and others property. Fairchild was insightful enough to do it on his own before it became a major problem for him, something very few of our government officials have. ? Kudzu has been found to moderate blood glucose levels, aid in the metabolization of fat deposits when consumed and many more uses. It is also edible par-boiled and cooked with butter like spinach. ?Aaron Floden --- On Thu, 10/22/09, Ellen Hornig wroteRecently I reread David Fairchild's _The World Was My Garden_ (the truly magical autobiography of one of the great masterminds of US plant introduction), and was amazed to find that he grew kudzu on his own property and then struggled to get rid of it *before* the Soil Conservation Service started planting it widely to control erosion (Fairchild, p. 328).? This suggests two things to me: first, a private individual (collector) could in fact be responsible for introducing a pest (Fairchild, realizing his mistake, paid "over two hundred dollars", somewhere between 1900-1905, I believe, to get rid of it, but not everyone would make a comparable investment); second, information does not always travel far and widely enough, because Fairchild was apparently not aware of the Soil Conservation Service's efforts until he saw them written up in a bulletin.? There is nothing in his book to suggest he tried to interfere or get them to backtrack. I toss this in only because, self-interest aside, the importation and cultivation of new species is NOT always harmless, private growers CAN get their hands on and circulate a new pest, and I am therefore a fencesitter on the subject of regulation, because I honestly don't know what is the best (or even a good and effective) approach. Ellen ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:29:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Marak Subject: Re: [pbs] Kudzu revisted (off topic) Re: Today is your last chance to comment on new US plantimportregulations To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I live in a kudzu area, though about at the northern limit (NW Arkansas), and I'm sensitive to both sides of this argument. I will say, however, that when I go out to look at wild plants, both here and when visiting other states, the biggest threat to them - and one that makes kudzu look like nothing - is habitat loss. A few big earth-movers can wipe out more natives in a week than kudzu would in many years, and since we live in a developing area, we see that happen now about once a month. Some site where we used to look at a native plant ecosystem is gone, replaced by leveled red dirt. There is one site we monitored for years, as one of the few known locations of Lilium superbum in Arkansas; it was an hour's drive from anything, and about half a mile down a dirt road from a kudzu infestation of probably 20 acres or so, and we always feared the kudzu would run down the road (there were no intervening natural barries) and choke out the lilies. 20 years later, the kudzu is the same size it was then, but the lilies are gone - someone bought the land, brought in tractors and bulldozers, cleared it, put a couple of double-wide trailers on part of it and used the rest for pasture. (A bunch of Cypripedium orchids were also wiped out.) Even in the areas where our state fish and game commission deliberately planted Lonicera japonica for deer browse (and I do hate the stuff), the natives in general seem to persist just fine, until someone cuts the timber. I can't and wouldn't try to speak for every location, and I know there are places where an exotic plant does actively choke out natives, but when I started looking for examples of it around me personally, I didn't find many. But I did see a lot of loss to land development. (Aaron, I took some flowering stems of kudzu to the August meeting of a local gardening group. They were fascinated by the grape fragrance, but only 2 of about 50 realized it was kudzu.) Steve On Wed, 21 Oct 2009, aaron floden wrote: > ?Kudzu was not introduced by Fairchild. It was introduced for fragrance > in 1876, and likely even before that. It was not until it was widely > planted as a make-work program that it began to spread. But, following > private property rights, it should be the introducers responsibility to > remove an invasive from their own and others property. Fairchild was > insightful enough to do it on his own before it became a major problem > for him, something very few of our government officials have. > ? Kudzu has been found to moderate blood glucose levels, aid in the > metabolization of fat deposits when consumed and many more uses. It is > also edible par-boiled and cooked with butter like spinach. > > --- On Thu, 10/22/09, Ellen Hornig wroteRecently I reread David Fairchild's _The World Was My Garden_ (the truly > magical autobiography of one of the great masterminds of US plant > introduction), and was amazed to find that he grew kudzu on his own property > and then struggled to get rid of it *before* the Soil Conservation Service > started planting it widely to control erosion (Fairchild, p. 328).? This > suggests two things to me: first, a private individual (collector) could in > fact be responsible for introducing a pest (Fairchild, realizing his > mistake, paid "over two hundred dollars", somewhere between 1900-1905, I > believe, to get rid of it, but not everyone would make a comparable > investment); second, information does not always travel far and widely > enough, because Fairchild was apparently not aware of the Soil Conservation > Service's efforts until he saw them written up in a bulletin.? There is > nothing in his book to suggest he tried to interfere or get them to > backtrack. ... -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:06:34 -0400 From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: Re: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Message-ID: <8CC20C2A6664DAF-40C4-DD78@webmail-d043.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I added my two cents in just now, took a while to figure out how to get to the place to add comments. Thanks all for the reminder! Ernie DeMarie Tuckahoe NY Z 7ish where we have had a rare nice weather day, lots of flowers still blooming in gardens very lighty touched by frost. -----Original Message----- From: Adam Fikso To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:58 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant importregulations 'm withTony Avent on this--for the most part-- most of his reasoning is ound. Some consideration needs to be given to new species. There is othing wrong with introductions even if they run wild. They only run wild ecause they have been put in the wrong places. Kudzu still has good uses, nd just because the USDA couldn't predict the future doesn't mean that we hould put an embargo on all new species. We cannot predict the future ither--so should not place a limit on our curiosity or on seeking new nowledge. This is xenophobia and not sensible inquiry.n It might even be nconstitutional. Much will depend on how the law is written and the ubsections. ----- Original Message ----- rom: "Michael Mace" o: ent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:03 PM ubject: [pbs] Today is your last chance to comment on new US plant mportregulations Today (10/21) at midnight EST is the deadline to submit comments on the US government's proposed plant import regulations, which would create a new category of banned plants that have not yet been evaluated for potential pest status (sometimes referred to as "NAPPRA"). Depending on how it is implemented, it could ban a lot of the seed and bulb importing we do today. There are about 250 comments on the government's comment site now, almost 100% of them in favor of the regulations. In fact, the only dissenting voice I could find was Tony Avent's. Many of the comments are from native plant societies, and are advocating a very draconian version of the regulations. For example, the Virginia Native Plant Society suggests a blanket ban on any plant that does not have a 50-year documented record of being grown outside its native habitat. That would ban many of the plants in our collections today. I won't bother to re-hash the things that I wrote about these regulations before, but you can influence the rule-making process by submitting a comment. In my experience, the government does listen to private comments, and they specifically asked for feedback from private plant groups like PBS. As a PBS member, you are qualified to respond. I just posted a comment. So you know, what I suggested was that the government: --Create a definition for "in cultivation" that includes anything that is currently in cultivation in the US, or has been in the past. --Exempt the small lots of seed program from the regulations (because it has little risk of introducing pests, and the exemption would allow private societies to continue their seed exchanges, which are important to them financially). --Collect information from plant collectors on the invasiveness of imported species. Contact me privately if you want a copy of my comments. If you want to comment, use this web address: http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#home Click on "submit a comment" In "keyword" type: aphis-2006-0011 You will see a list of comments. Click on one of the small icons next to them labeled "submit a comment" This will open a window to submit a comment on that particular comment. Don't do that. Instead, click on the box labeled "Comment directly on proposed rules." This will open a form that lets you comment on the rules themselves. If you want to write something long, you can submit a file. But short comments can be typed directly into the form. Thanks, Mike San Jose, CA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ bs mailing list bs@lists.ibiblio.org ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:33:52 -0700 From: Lee Poulsen Subject: [pbs] Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources To: PBS Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Weird request (but there is so much knowledge residing in this group, I told my friend I'd try asking): Does anyone out there know of commercial sources of Saffron Crocus bulbs (Crocus sativus) that are in the Southern Hemisphere (Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, etc.)? A friend of mine wants to purchase somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 bulbs to plant at a farm in the southern hemisphere and doesn't want to have to attempt switching hemispheres. (Unless the wholesale price of Dutch bulbs is so cheap that, even with losses, it would still be cheaper to do that than buy them from a southern hemisphere source.) Thanks, --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 81, Issue 29 *********************************** From mikemace@att.net Wed Oct 21 22:40:29 2009 Message-Id: <000401ca52c1$032fcaf0$098f60d0$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Sorry Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:40:26 -0700 Dang it, I can't believe I just left the whole digest attached to my last message. If I could figure out how to recall it, I would. Sorry. Mike From ron_redding@hotmail.com Thu Oct 22 00:17:06 2009 Message-Id: From: Ronald Redding Subject: Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:17:02 +1000 Lee It just so happens that I was listening to a speach from the Tasmanian Premier yesterday and he was spruiking their growing saffron industry. I will see if there is anymore I can find out however you will probably find it as quickly (more likely faster-being a rocket scientist and all) as me as this is all the info I have at the moment. If you come to a dead end and would like me to find out anymore for you please let me know. Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia > From: wpoulsen@pacbell.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:33:52 -0700 > Subject: [pbs] Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources > > Weird request (but there is so much knowledge residing in this group, > I told my friend I'd try asking): > > Does anyone out there know of commercial sources of Saffron Crocus > bulbs (Crocus sativus) that are in the Southern Hemisphere (Australia, > South Africa, New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, etc.)? A friend of mine > wants to purchase somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 bulbs to plant at > a farm in the southern hemisphere and doesn't want to have to attempt > switching hemispheres. (Unless the wholesale price of Dutch bulbs is > so cheap that, even with losses, it would still be cheaper to do that > than buy them from a southern hemisphere source.) > > Thanks, > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ Take a peek at other people's pay and perks Check out The Great Australian Pay Check http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/ From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Oct 22 01:31:41 2009 Message-Id: <875d4t$hmeif8@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out1.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:31:16 +1100 At 11:33 AM 22/10/2009, you wrote: >Weird request (but there is so much knowledge residing in this group, >I told my friend I'd try asking): > >Does anyone out there know of commercial sources of Saffron Crocus >bulbs (Crocus sativus) that are in the Southern Hemisphere (Australia, >South Africa, New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, etc.)? A friend of mine Lee, There must be sources of them around, as they appear in the bulk bulb purchase lots in summer. That means there are wholesalers producing them on a large scale to sell to the retail nurseries, so they should be able to supply something like the numbers your friend is wanting. I think s/he would need to contact the wholesaler direct, to save buying for retail prices. It depends whether this year they're in loose bulb format or course..... some years they're in the little bags with the cardboard picture attached etc. Still, there should be a wholesaler somewhere who they can buy from. If they know someone who works in a nursery, see if they can find out who their dormant bulbs come from and start from there. Worth a try at least. I would imagine we here in Aus will be WAY more expensive than the dutch bulbs, because we don't have the economies of scale from a large population like you guys up north , but there won't be the hassle of having to change hemispheres. The other possibility is to find otu whether there is a Saffron growers society here in Aus (like the vineyards etc) that help small scale producers start up. I don't "think" we have a big enough industry for Saffron here in Aus as yet, but it is worthwhile checking just in case. Anyway, I hope this helps point your friend in the right direction. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Thu Oct 22 03:01:56 2009 Message-Id: From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:01:41 +0200 Hello Mr. Lee, I don't know if You can do anything with this link, it is not from where you want but, You can look on this site, they grow only this crocus. Kind Regards, Marie-Paule Belgium ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Poulsen" To: "PBS Society" Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:33 AM Subject: [pbs] Southern Hemisphere Saffron Crocus bulb sources > Weird request (but there is so much knowledge residing in this group, > I told my friend I'd try asking): > > Does anyone out there know of commercial sources of Saffron Crocus > bulbs (Crocus sativus) that are in the Southern Hemisphere (Australia, > South Africa, New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, etc.)? A friend of mine > wants to purchase somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 bulbs to plant at > a farm in the southern hemisphere and doesn't want to have to attempt > switching hemispheres. (Unless the wholesale price of Dutch bulbs is > so cheap that, even with losses, it would still be cheaper to do that > than buy them from a southern hemisphere source.) > > Thanks, > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4531 (20091022) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu Oct 22 10:01:47 2009 Message-Id: <120703.28611.qm@web84306.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Something amazing - at least to me Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:01:40 -0700 (PDT) In September 2006 I received several lots of hardy cyclamen seed. I gave the seed my usual treatment - it was soaked overnight to plump it, then it was blotted and placed in zip lock plastic bags which were then placed in the refrigerator. My intention was to plant it within a week or two, but things got busy and that didn't happen. The seed was taken out and examined now and then over the years, and eventually any visible sign of moisture disappeared. Some of the seed began to shrivel. I've spent the last two weeks in the garden preparing new cold frames for seed sowing. Once the priority items had been sown, I turned to some of the material languishing in the refrigerator - among them, that three-year-old cyclamen seed. I sowed most of this, more out of curiosity than anything else. Last night, only a week after that season 2006 seed was sown, two have germinated! I couldn't believe my eyes, but there they were, little protocorms attached by a thread to the seed itself. I can't rule out that they were there when the seed was sown - that they were there in a much reduced form attached to the seed - and became hydrated and swollen when the pots were watered. . But I doubt that because I handled each seed as I sowed it and would have noticed anything which seemed soft and characteristic of new growth (in particular because I was looking for signs of mold).   This little event is very surprising to me, especially since lots of season 2009 cyclamen seed sown at the same time (and also given the soak-blot-refrigerator treatment) has yet to show any signs of germination. It's not as if I don't have a lot of other things to keep me busy (such as admiring the nice variety of autumn crocuses now blooming), but now it's going to be hard to keep away from the cold frames and all of those cyclamen seeds. Jim McKenney From stantyson@msn.com Thu Oct 22 18:41:28 2009 Message-Id: From: stan tyson Subject: Off topic: Davidia seed request Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:41:27 -0500 Hi all! I am looking for about 25 fresh seeds of Davidia. Does anyone lon the list have access to fresh seed? I have seed of Magnolia to trade and a host of bulbs! Stan Tyson Rivendell Botanic Garden Central illinois Zone 5 stantyson@msn.com From antennaria@charter.net Fri Oct 23 18:33:31 2009 Message-Id: <20091023183320.GZUXS.7388724.root@mp14> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Off topic: Davidia seed request Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:33:20 -0700 Hello Stan, Until yesterday, I worked only a couple miles from the Mount Auburn Cemetery in Cambridge MA http://www.mountauburn.org/ and I would occassionally drive over to see the fantastic grounds and flora there. This is a marvelous historic cemetery of grand size that is better thought of as a remarkable arboretum, not just a cemetery. There are two mature specimens of Davidia involucrata ssp. vilmoriniana growing there. Sometimes, when I visit the cemetery on our company's educational "botanical walks" (from the Landscape Architectural group) one can just pick up fallen seed... I have some nice seedlings of the hardy form of Silk Tree or Albizia julibrissin germinated from pods collected mid-winter last year. Since yesterday was my last day (been laid after 20+ years with my company), I no longer will be trekking in 40 miles one way to reach the area... but I could make a trip because there are other specialty attractions in the area to make a day of it, and could pick up some fallen seeds. The seeds are rather enormous, as big as walnuts. I can't remember precisely what time of year it was last year that I visited and picked up some seed, but not knowing if each represented 1 seed, or whether it would need to be dried off and possibly there were seeds inside, I never did sow them... seems to me, they are but one seed each. Wouldn't mind going back to get fresh seeds for myself too, as this is simply a fantastic smallish tree with unbelievable flowers that earn it's knickname of hankerchief tree or dove tree. To make this post more on topic, there are some good geophytes grown on the grounds too, mostly for spring viewing but there are colchicums too. We can take this discussion off-line (for the plant trading part) but thought it was worth discussing this fine monotypic tree; it would certainly be a great overstory tree for the likes of some of the Lycoris species and cultivars that have featured so prominently on PBS recently. Mark McDonough Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border, USDA Zone 5 antennaria@charter.net ---- pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: ============= Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Off topic: Davidia seed request (stan tyson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:41:27 -0500 From: stan tyson Subject: [pbs] Off topic: Davidia seed request To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all! I am looking for about 25 fresh seeds of Davidia. Does anyone lon the list have access to fresh seed? I have seed of Magnolia to trade and a host of bulbs! Stan Tyson Rivendell Botanic Garden Central illinois Zone 5 stantyson@msn.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 81, Issue 32 *********************************** From antennaria@charter.net Fri Oct 23 20:55:09 2009 Message-Id: <20091023205502.7WJ9V.7394505.root@mp14> From: Mark McDonough Subject: in praise of Cyclamen purpurascens Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:55:02 -0700 I'm always running out into the garden taking photos of things in flower, but one item that comes to mind week after week for many months, is Cyclamen purpurascens. They awaken and start blooming midsummer, and just keep on coming. Here it is nearly November, still lots of flowers and more buds coming. For years all I had were plain green leaved forms, but a few years back I received some really nice silver and mottled leaf forms, and they are just fantastic. They are strongly seeding around too, couldn't be happier about that. My plants are growing under a large Magnolia 'Forrest Pink' tree, much of which was destroyed in the ice storm of December 2008. Receiving more sun this year than previously due to lack of upper story tree foliage left the cyclamen more exposed to sun and dryness, but they survived and prospered just fine. I'm posting a few photos, taken very recently. You will also notice a small Japanese variegated Viola species or cultivar, can't remember off-hand what its name is, but find the flat mounds of silver and green foliage and charming pink flowers in spring to be a nice co-inhabitant. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/2009/q4/Cyclamen_purp_leaf_forms2009a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/2009/q4/Cyclamen_purp_leaf_forms2009b.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/2009/q4/Cyclamen_purp_leaf_forms2009c.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/2009/q4/Cyclamen_purp_leaf_forms2009e.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/2009/q4/Cyclamen_purp_leaf_forms2009f.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/2009/q4/Cyclamen_purp_leaf_forms2009g.jpg Senaca Hills Nursery has these fine silver-leaf cyclamen forms, in particular, check out the "extra fancy" sorts... gorgeous. http://www.senecahillperennials.com/index.php?page=cyclamen Mark McDonough Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border, USDA Zone 5 antennaria@charter.net From ds429@comcast.net Sat Oct 24 11:39:51 2009 Message-Id: <000001ca54c0$3b231790$b16946b0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 223 Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:39:53 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 223" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jay Yourch, Crinum bulbs, various sizes: 1. Crinum 'Old Maid' - part shade, moist soil, zone 7 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsWhiteTwo#Ol dMaid 2. Crinum 'Maiden's Blush' - part shade, moist soil, zone 7 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsWhite#Maide nsBlush 3. Crinum 'White Fluff' - part shade, moist soil, zone 7 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsWhiteTwo#Wh iteFluff 4. Crinum 'J.C. Harvey' - part shade, moist soil, zone 7 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsPinkTwo#JCH arvey 5. Crinum 'Ellen Bosanquet' - sun to part shade, moist soil, zone 7 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsRed#EllenBo sanquet Thank you, Jay !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Oct 24 13:01:38 2009 Message-Id: <000c01ca54cb$a703d160$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Pacific BX 223 Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:01:38 -0400 Hey Jay, I just took a look at the listings on the most recent BX: how's your back this morning? I dug two crinums the other day - the bases of the bulbs were about eighteen inches down. They had been there for at least fifteen and maybe twenty years or more. I thought I was going to be in bed with a heating pad on my back for the rest of the day. Jim McKenney From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Sun Oct 25 02:59:58 2009 Message-Id: <3b9284cd0910242359h10c74631he3153d6f15c9b5b@mail.gmail.com> From: "J. Agoston" Subject: Violet Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:59:56 +0100 Dear Mark, The Violet called Viola grypoceras var. exilis (syn. V. coreana, V. koreana) Bye, Jan, Z5a, Hungary From antennaria@charter.net Sun Oct 25 18:01:22 2009 Message-Id: <20091025180121.FADCQ.7262568.root@mp08> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Off topic: Davidia seed request Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:01:21 -0700 Hello PBS'rs, Judging from the many requests I got from PBS members for Davidia seed, I think the PBS group should be renamed POT (Pacific Ornamental Trees) group, haha :-) Not sure if I'll be able to gather as much seed as I have requests for, but will see what I can do. I'll be in tough privately with those that made seed requests. Thanks also for well wishers regarding being laid off. I'm actively working on correcting the situation. Hmmm, each davidia seed, at $50 each, equals...???? [just joking] One of my great frustrations when I was working all the time, and had a very long daily commute, was that I often completely missed plants flowering in the garden, with sitings of such things as autumn crocus nearly always passing me by. Well, now I'm getting more chance to see (and smell) them, with C. asumaniae being amongst the most beautiful and fragrant, although C. pallasii is also worth getting down on one's belly to catch a wiff. Was surprised to see a seedling crocus blooming today, and it is C. niveus, which is a welcome sight as my original stock of niveus had completely died out. Mark McDonough Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border, USDA Zone 5 antennaria@charter.net From arnold140@verizon.net Sun Oct 25 19:32:20 2009 Message-Id: <446412856.296999.1256513517554.JavaMail.root@vms244.mailsrvcs.net> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: up early/home late Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:31:57 -0500 (CDT) Mark: I was in your shoes not too long ago. Leaving in the dark and coming home in the dark. This week has been great with Crocus banaticus and Crocus speciosus in full flight. The last of the Colchicums are performing. Arnold New Jersey From ksayce@willapabay.org Sun Oct 25 20:07:30 2009 Message-Id: <67212734-45E1-44B6-875A-0D2F07820DA2@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: tulip seeds and germination Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:06:59 -0700 This summer I decided to sacrifice 100 Tulipa sylvestris seeds to science: I sorted the fresh seeds from pods in my garden into 3 groups; I used a light table and hand lens to help determine the presence of an embryo in the ripe seed. Group 1 had visible embryos in dark, nicely shaped seeds, n was 25; 2 had dark, nicely shaped seeds, but no visible embryos, n was 25; 3 had smaller, misshapen, clear light-colored seeds, n was 50. Then I put them in clean thick paper towels, a la Deno, and in plastic sandwich bags in the vegetable drawer of my refrigerator. The paper towels were moistened before seeds were added, and were changed every 4 weeks. Three months later I now have germinating seeds in groups 1 & 2; 100% and 50%, respectively; and no germination in group 3. My conclusion is that for this species, and perhaps for most tulips, it is worth sorting out the light colored, small, misshapen seeds, and keeping the larger, darker seeds. If you want every one of them to germinate, it's also worth sorting those with visible embryos out from the rest, though there will be significant germination from seeds without visible embryos, so long as the seeds are large, well shaped, and at least somewhat brown to dark brown. Kathleen Pacific NW Coast, zone 8, where the next rainstorm is beginning to arrive. From pandi_bear@bigpond.com Sun Oct 25 20:56:03 2009 Message-Id: <006701ca55d7$08d496c0$1a7dc440$@com> From: "Carolyn Fra" Subject: tulip seeds and germination Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:55:38 +1100 Hi Kathleen, Thanks for this, :o) This come just at the right time for me. I have some nice big tulip pods nearly ready for collection. Carolyn (Tasmania, Australia) -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen Sayce Sent: Monday, 26 October 2009 11:07 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] tulip seeds and germination Snipped ------------------------------------------------- My conclusion is that for this species, and perhaps for most tulips, it is worth sorting out the light colored, small, misshapen seeds, and keeping the larger, darker seeds. If you want every one of them to germinate, it's also worth sorting those with visible embryos out from the rest, though there will be significant germination from seeds without visible embryos, so long as the seeds are large, well shaped, and at least somewhat brown to dark brown. Kathleen Pacific NW Coast, zone 8, where the next rainstorm is beginning to arrive. From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Sun Oct 25 21:23:12 2009 Message-Id: <4AE4F9EF.2000005@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: The Bulb Garden Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:22:55 -0700 The current issue of The Bulb Garden is in the mail. If you are a member, and do not receive it in a timely fashion, please write Arnold Trachtenberg ( arnold140@verizon.net ) for assistance. This issue has some great articles. There is one on alliums native to serpentine areas of California written by Nhu Nguyen, and one by Robert Werra on growing Moreas. If you haven't joined the organization yet, there is still time to do so and get a copy of these informative articles with their beautiful pictures. Since this is my last issue as editor, I would like to again thank those who have made the job easy and fun. The co-editor is Jennifer Hildebrand. Her creativity and attention to detail have significantly increased the attractiveness of the layout and content. Arnold has been dedicated to getting the issues printed and mailed. Thank you both. More importantly, the newsletter could not have been produced without the dedicated efforts of all the people who have contributed articles and photos for your pleasure. Thank you all. Finally, I want to introduce you to Jane Merryman ( jane@sonic.net ) who is taking over as editor with the first issue of 2010. Please make her welcome and help her by sending articles and ideas. If you can think of a topic, a cartoon, a book review, or ?? that you would like to create, please write to her. Marguerite From mikemace@att.net Mon Oct 26 00:31:24 2009 Message-Id: <000001ca55f5$27244f80$756cee80$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Amaryllis 'Multiflora' breeding questions Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:30:48 -0700 I've had another fun season this fall playing with the Amaryllis (or Amarygia) 'Multiflora' bulbs I received from the late Les Hannibal. It was a mediocre bloom season, with a shortage of really dark pink flowers. But still I have enough bulbs that I got a fair number of flowers to play with. I wanted to post a couple of observations/questions and see if the true Amaryllis experts on the list would like to share any wisdom... --Has anyone ever tried crossing A. 'Multiflora' with Brunsvigia marginata? I have seen several comments online from people who have crossed them with B. josephinae, and I've made that cross myself. But I can't find any discussions of crosses with B. marginata. I managed to get some marginata pollen this fall, and it looks like the crosses with the Amaryllis may have worked -- I got a number of small white, pink, or straw-colored seeds, much smaller than the usual 'Multiflora' seeds. Some of the seeds were already sprouting in the pod. That's how the seeds from the B. josephinae crosses looked, so I'm very hopeful. Based on how long it takes for me to get these bulbs to mature, it'll probably be as much as a decade before these crossed bulbs bloom. So, has anyone made this cross before, and if so can you tell me what to expect from the flowers? --I am now starting to get blooms from the first crosses I made among the 'Multifloras' from Mr. Hannibal. The results are interesting. For example, I thought that crossing a dark pink and a medium pink would produce fairly dark pink flowers. But instead that cross produced some mid-pink flowers and some pure white ones. From my dim memories of high school genetics, I presume that means there are some recessive genes in there. But that's about all I can tell. Any comments from the experts? Are there any rules of thumb on what sort of flowers various crosses will produce? Is it the white or the dark pink that's recessive? I presume it's the white. And how does the yellow throat in the flower play in the mix? I have both pinks and whites with and without strongly yellow throats. Thanks, Mike PS: I am harvesting a lot of seed this year and will send some to the BX. From jimlykos@bigpond.com Mon Oct 26 04:07:48 2009 Message-Id: <1D1BB2ACFBC847948BECDD2D074C78F0@amaryllis> From: "jim lykos" Subject: Amaryllis 'Multiflora' breeding questions Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:07:50 +1100 Hi Mike, Good questions only a few of which I can answer. Like yourself I've also embarked on discovering the variations resulting from crossing various color forms of Amaryllis belladonna and Amarygia. In February 2009, late summer here in the southern hemisphere, I crossed some Amarygia's (including Amarygia Multiflora) with Brunsvigia marginata - the Amarygia being the seed parent. The seed were very small and as you indicated and they were prone to germinate quickly. They weren't as numerous as you obtain from the cross using B. josephinea pollen. In the reverse cross only 4 seeds from B. marginata were obtained from 26 flowers pollinated by Amarygia. I have been told that similar hybrids made between Amaryllis/Amarygia Multiflora and B. littoralis and B marginata have been flowered by a grower in Tasmainia ( Southern Island state of Australia) with similar outcomes in flower size and color to the josephinea cross. However I have not seen pictures of the flowers to substantiate this observation and even if the flowers are a similar carmine/red color I doubt that the flower count and shape would be identical. What you call Amarygia Multiflora however may not be the same cultivar type as the one here in Australia by that name. I have flowered a few Amarygia from seed that were given to Australian Amaryllis growers by Les Hannibal. The Hannibal Amarygia's in my collection usually have 16 flowers in a ringlet display, however the Amaryllis Multiflora name was initially given by JC Bidwill to the cross he made between Amaryllis and Brunsvigia multiflora (an early name for B. orientalis) - and this Amarygia can have considerable more flowers (30 to 50). I assume that cultivars of this cross were selected and bred as Amaryllis Multiflora "Rosea" and Amaryllis Multiflora "Alba" over a number of decades. There were a number of nomenclature name changes given to these hybrids in Australia, and a wholesale Bulb Nursery Holloway Bros. crossed and selected a few named Multiflora varieties during the 1920's to the 1950's. My question is what do you call the Multiflora types? Presumably the intergeneric hybrid using B. multiflora (orientallis) when first flowered in 1847 had more flowers than did the Amaryllis x B. josephinea. In Australian Nursery catalogues of the period from 1900 to the 1950's are briefly described a number of Amaryllis Multiflora colour forms - seven of them with specific names - a sample of the descriptions follows: "Handsome crown of pure white flowers - 18 to 24 with delightful perfume" "Magnificant bulb bearing immense heads of rich pink rose fls" "Strong 3' stems with heads of 20-30 deep rose red lilly like blooms" "huge heads of brilliant cerise pink flowers 30 -40 on 4' stems" I have 4 different Amarygia Multiflora cultivars - with rose to cerise colours and was recently shown a picture of a 40 flowered white Multiflora cultivar, so although they are rare they do exist and perhaps can be further developed by line breeding. Over the past two years I have flowered around 60 Amaryllis/Amarygia grown from seed and surprisingly found that about 1 in 8 are superior to both parents. As you commented - it is hard to predict the colour outcomes of these crosses - and amongst these 60 flowered seedlings is a Giant flower form as well as a pygmea sized flower. Keep in touch. Jim Lykos Blue Nountains near Sydney Australia From leo@possi.org Mon Oct 26 12:42:45 2009 Message-Id: <22250c61ac79298760413a68bdaff7f5.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: winter care for Polianthes Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Dennis asked about overwintering Polianthes tuberosa. I fortunately can grow these wonderfully-fragrant plants outside. Most years our light frost kills the tops, but every 10 years or so frost kills the bulbs. So now I grow them outside with protection - in a large pot near the house, so I can move the pot close to the house when frost threatens. I agree with everything Dell says. I know most people overwinter them dry, allowing the leaves to die off. But, like all Agavaceae, the plant is actually an evergreen where climate permits. My impression has been that they grow and flower better if they keep their leaves, so I now water all year. This would be harder in a freezing climate but, if light be available, it might be worthwhile overwintering in a window or greenhouse and keeping them going. Spider mites would probably be a winter problem, as with most soft-leaved Agavaceae. I echo the notion of dividing regularly. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA Dennis wrote > I bought several Polianthes this season which are growing in pots > outdoors. We had our first freeze last night, but they seem to be okay. > When I do finally bring them indoors is there any particular care > they need? Do I unpot them and store in the cool dry basement? Do I set > them on a warm windowsill and continue providing water? Dell replied > I leave mine in their pots and do not water them through winter in my > cool greenhouse (min 35-40 F). They bloom well until they become crowded, > and need a lot of water in the summer. > > But the best flowering came when I planted them out in the garden, fed > and watered them regularly, and dug them up after a frost, dried them off > and stored them in dry peat moss, and planted them out in early summer. > When > they are crowded, they split into pieces that are too small to bloom, so > it is best to keep them in clumps separated from their neighbors by at > least a foot. > > P. tuberosa has one of my favorite flower fragrances. I grow it for that > alone. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Oct 26 13:25:43 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: The Bulb Garden Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:21:24 -0700 Thanks to Marguerite English for her long service as editor of our newsletter! And thanks to recently joined member Jane Merryman for volunteering to help us continue with this service to PBS members. I'll be assisting with gathering articles for the next few issues, so if you have an idea that hasn't quite taken form yet, please get in touch with me and I can help with that. We do like to get photos to accompany the articles, but we also have a photo archive available if you are a writer but not a photographer. Marguerite pointed out, and I'll repeat, that if you're a member of this list but not of the PBS, you're missing out on the newsletter, and also on the tempting offers of the Bulb and Seed Exchange (BX) that are posted from time to time here. With best regards to all, Jane McGary President, Pacific Bulb Society At 06:22 PM 10/25/2009, you wrote: > The current issue of The Bulb Garden is in the mail. If you are a >member, and do not receive it in a timely fashion, please write Arnold >Trachtenberg ( arnold140@verizon.net ) for assistance. This issue has >some great articles. There is one on alliums native to serpentine areas >of California written by Nhu Nguyen, and one by Robert Werra on growing >Moreas. If you haven't joined the organization yet, there is still time >to do so and get a copy of these informative articles with their >beautiful pictures. From leo@possi.org Mon Oct 26 13:53:12 2009 Message-Id: <577d118f59cf8cc9087d7fafaedf6307.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Confused Amaryllis beladonna Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Hello All, I have six clumps of Amaryllis beladonna on the east side of a low wall. They bake in the summer until the afternoon. I water them about once a week in summer, more in winter. Past years have convinced me they need summer water here in the Arizona heat or they dwindle away. They didn't bloom at the usual time, but Saturday I noticed three bloom stalks. Interestingly, they are on the three that are in the shallowest soil and get the least water. I hand-pollinated them, so I may get seed. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From aquaflorasa@telkomsa.net Mon Oct 26 15:27:50 2009 Message-Id: <000b01ca5672$5ca295e0$b9e57929@Nymphea> From: "Aqua Flora SA" Subject: Scadoxus cinnabarinus Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:27:30 +0200 Dear list members, A few days ago while watering some of my plants I noticed a flower scape emerging from among the centre of my Scadoxus cinnabarinus! I was very much surprised and pleased, as the plant is still quite small (or so I thought) and I did not expect it to flower within the next two to three years at least. I have read somewhere (perhaps here on the PBS) that S. cinnabarinus is self sterile. This brings me to the reason for my email, I am looking for a donor of S. cinnabarinus pollen so that I may produce some seed of this rare and sought after species to propagate and distribute to other collectors. Once the flowers start to open up I will add some photos to the PBS Wiki. Kind regards, Pieter van der Walt South Africa -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Pinpoint, and is believed to be clean. From jshields104@comcast.net Mon Oct 26 16:53:30 2009 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20091026164543.02b74008@mail.comcast.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Bloom in the Garden & Greenhouse Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:53:25 -0400 This time of year, flowers are few and far between around here. Outdoors, one clump of Sternbergia lutea is still blooming, but the near-by group of Crocus nudiflorus have already wilted. In another bed, Colchicum atropurpureum has only one or two flowers still showing. A crocus that has not bloomed for me before is C. cartwrightrianus. This year, it's in flower. Look for it in an up-coming addition to my blog at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/index.html In the warm greenhouse, Nerine sarniensis 'Exbury Renoiur' is in bloom. This bulb came from Nicholas de Rothschild in June, 2008. Other sarniensis varieties are in bud or ion bloom as well. N. bowdenii "Koen's Hardy" is still in full bloom, and a pure white bowdenii from Cameron & Rhoda McMaster is about to open its buds for the first time. The Nerine will probably show up in the blog as well. Jim Shields in warm and sunny Westfield, Indiana USA ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From mikemace@att.net Tue Oct 27 01:32:55 2009 Message-Id: <000701ca56c6$ed932fc0$c8b98f40$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Amaryllis 'Multiflora' breeding questions Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:32:51 -0700 Hi, Jim. Wow. Thanks for all the info. This is an interesting subject, but the details are pretty overwhelming. It's nice to hear that someone else has done crosses with B. marginata. >>similar outcomes in flower size and color to the josephinea cross. Ah, that would be what we call in California a "bummer." I keep hoping that some cross or backcross will give me a truly scarlet flower instead of the pinks / magentas / cerises. >>The Hannibal Amarygia's in my collection usually have 16 flowers in a ringlet display That sounds about like mine. Flower numbers vary from about ten to 20, and the heads vary from about a 70-degree spread to 360 degrees in a few of them. The radialness (?) of the flower head also seems to depend on how much sun it gets -- if there's strong direct sunlight, the flowers seem to curve around toward it. >>the Amaryllis Multiflora name ...can have considerable more flowers (30 to 50). Wow, I have nothing like that. So I am probably misusing the name. Any suggestions on what I should call these things? (Maybe just "hybrid Amaryllis from Les Hannibal"). >>I assume that cultivars of this cross were selected and bred as Amaryllis Multiflora "Rosea" I have one from Mr. Hannibal that was labeled Amaryllis "Rosea." Unfortunately, it has yet to bloom. >>"huge heads of brilliant cerise pink flowers 30 -40 on 4' stems" Impressive, and far larger than mine. The tallest of mine are about 2.5' tall when in bloom (under a meter for you metric types). Some of them get taller after they've finished blooming -- the stalk elongates as the seeds are forming. Thanks again for the information. Mike San Jose, CA From gentian21@comcast.net Tue Oct 27 01:44:04 2009 Message-Id: From: "gentian21" Subject: What's blooming in Urbana. Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:43:56 -0500 I have my last spike of Rhodophiala blooming. That has given me almost continuous bloom from last week of August until now. Not very many since I have only had them for 3-4 years. Planted in 4 locations and in pots. They have been reliably evergreen here. Lots of crocus specious and some c. nudiflorus. I was surprised to see a Cyclamen purpurescens reblooming. It is by far the best performer here in spite of the soil being continuousy wet all summer except for totally dry in September. They always seem to bloom in the hottest period of July. A kahlii ginger still in bloom. Some daphnes reblooming. I am already looking forward to the Corydalis bulbosa next spring. Last year I tucked one in the crack in the driveway and it did great so this summer i filled the entire row with them. Just the kind of place they like. Now that I have a car in addition to a truch I will have to park the truck somewhere else for a month. I am hoping to have luck with Tropaelum tricolor and Boomeria hirtella in the greenhouse. Frank Cooper East central Illinois zone 5b From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Tue Oct 27 03:01:31 2009 Message-Id: <4AE69AC4.3030709@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Pacific BX 223 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:01:24 -0700 Please send the following - ok to substitute 1 or 2 for 3 if supplies are short. Thanks again, Marguerite Dell Sherk wrote: > >From Jay Yourch, > > > > Crinum bulbs, various sizes: > > > > > > 3. Crinum 'White Fluff' - part shade, moist soil, zone 7 > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsWhiteTwo#Wh > iteFluff > > > > 4. Crinum 'J.C. Harvey' - part shade, moist soil, zone 7 > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsPinkTwo#JCH > arvey > > > > > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From ang.por@alice.it Tue Oct 27 05:53:13 2009 Message-Id: From: Subject: Amaryllis 'Multiflora' breeding questions Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:50:38 +0100 Indeed I am having a bit of fun here in Southern Italy too, crossing some Amaryllis forms with Brunsvigia bosmaniae and reverse. I wonder why th B. bosmaniae hasn't been taken in due consideration in breeding with Amaryllis, because of its wonderful shape of inflorescence and the size and number of florets. Just these days the capsule are ripening. On Brunsvigia bosmaniae the capsule are full of seeds but I didn't emasculate the florets so self pollination is possible, but on Amaryllis I removed anters so I hope to get hybrid seeds. I will keep updated as the seeds ripe. Angelo Porcelli Apulia - South of Italy Alice Messenger ;-) chatti anche con gli amici di Windows Live Messenger e tutti i telefonini TIM! From ds429@comcast.net Tue Oct 27 06:48:32 2009 Message-Id: <001a01ca56f3$0793d150$16bb73f0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 223 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 06:48:33 -0400 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Marguerite English Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:01 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 223 Please send the following - ok to substitute 1 or 2 for 3 if supplies are short. Thanks again, Marguerite Dell Sherk wrote: > >From Jay Yourch, > > > > Crinum bulbs, various sizes: > > > > > > 3. Crinum 'White Fluff' - part shade, moist soil, zone 7 > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsWhiteTwo#Wh > iteFluff > > > > 4. Crinum 'J.C. Harvey' - part shade, moist soil, zone 7 > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsPinkTwo#JCH > arvey > > > > > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Oct 27 11:18:35 2009 Message-Id: <000301ca5718$aab6f8b0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Scilla lingulata ciliolata and some crocuses Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:17:57 -0400 Scilla lingulata ciliolata is in bloom today in my protected cold frame. This came from Jane McGary in 2007. If I understand the name correctly, this one is well named. The neat rosette of leaves do suggest tongues, and the bristles which line the edges of the leaves account for the ciliolata part. As it grows here, this is a very neat, tidy plant. When I first saw the foliage rosette I thought “saxifrage”. At this stage, the leaf rosette in only about three inches in diameter, if that. The flowers themselves are nothing to get excited about; they are small and a pale lifeless gray-blue. But there is something very appealing about the whole effect: it looks as if it should be in a pot on a show bench. The local snails seem to like the leaves. I have not tried this one in the open garden yet. That it initiates above-ground growth at this time of year suggests that its chances in the open garden are dubious. Has anyone been able to grow this one successfully outside in USDA zone 6 or 7? Autumn crocuses are still trying to bloom between prolonged bouts of rain. In bloom now, or trying to bloom, are Crocus goulimyi in lilac and white, C. pulchellus in lilac blue and white, C. cartwrightianus, C. longiflorus, C. thomasii, C. kotschyanus, and C. speciosus. Other species have sprouts up, but so far do not show a spathe, or show a spathe but have not yet produced a flower. There is evidence that rodents got into the crocus frames during the summer, so every visit to the frames now brings on a mixture of pleasure from the ones which are still with me and pains about the ones which have yet to make an appearance. Also in bloom, if you can call it that, is that very annoying form of Crocus kotschyanus which produces deformed flowers of a pale gray-white. Over the years (and it’s been around for decades: don’t the growers ever look at these things when they bloom?) I’ve bought this as Crocus zonatus and C. zonatus albus. If forms comparatively large, knobby corms; and those corms have a esculent quality which makes me wonder if somewhere in the world this plant is grown for human consumption. Someone is obviously making an effort to keep it in cultivation and in commerce. Crocus corms are said to be an article of human diet in parts of the Middle East. Maybe these deformed crocuses are part of an Al-Qaeda plot to infuriate American crocus lovers. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Oct 27 12:12:27 2009 Message-Id: <740A97AB737041E79F80EA6BB4531968@galanthophile> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Scilla lingulata ciliolata and some crocuses Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:12:19 -0000 Hi Jim From what I have been told deformed Crocus zonatus/kotschyanus are from Dutch stock. I have a photo on my web site http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus%20kotschyanus%20dutch.html http://www.marksgardenplants.com/crocus.htm Mark N Ireland Also in bloom, if you can call it that, is that very annoying form of Crocus kotschyanus which produces deformed flowers of a pale gray-white. Over the years (and it's been around for decades: don't the growers ever look at these things when they bloom?) I've bought this as Crocus zonatus and C. zonatus albus. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 14440 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From contact@bulbargence.com Tue Oct 27 12:28:39 2009 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Scilla lingulata ciliolata and some crocuses Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:28:29 +0100 Dear all, This species is also known under the genus Hyacinthoides. Its bulbs not all like those of the Scillas and are very similar to Hyacinthoides hispanica. (Fleshy with hardly any outer tunic). The form Jim mentioned (with its typical neat 'rosette') is the last flowering form. Other forms are flowering from end of August onwards. A very worthwhile decoratif species but for some reason rarely demanded. Kind greetings Lauw de Jager www.bulbargence.com (South of France) -----Original Message----- From: "Jim McKenney" If I understand the name correctly, this one is well named. The neat rosette of leaves do suggest tongues, and the bristles which line the edges of the leaves account for the ciliolata part. As it grows here, this is a very neat, tidy plant. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Oct 27 13:21:56 2009 Message-Id: <000301ca5729$f82413b0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Ouch! Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:21:45 -0400 After writing earlier this morning about Scilla lingulata ciliolata, I went out to take another look at the plant. It’s raining here today, just the sort of day on which it’s very easy to get into trouble. And I did just that, big time: my itchy fingers were poking around in the cold frame when I encountered what I though was a piece of very thin black wire. I gave it a tug, and discovered that the “wire” was longer than I at first thought; it was also firmly attached. I gave a stronger tug and the end of the “wire” broke off. At that moment I had that awful experience where from the depths of my mind a warning was screaming, but too late to prevent what was happening. If you have ever cut into your finger with an extremely sharp kitchen knife, you know this feeling: as you feel the knife cutting into your skin (and it’s a very odd feeling in that not only do you feel it, you seem to hear your flesh ripping, too) there is that instantaneous, momentary confusion as you try to figure out what is happening. Well, I figured out what was happening with the black “wire”, but I figured it out too late: the black “wire” was in fact the sprout of one of the Chilean Tropaeolum. Because these plants branch freely, no permanent damage was done. The part of the stem I did not break off is perhaps eight inches long and already had started to branch. This experience highlights one of the many aspects of plant culture which, for me at least, seem very hard to learn. Plants do their own thing, and they don’t do it until they’re ready to. I had been very carefully searching the frame for any signs of growth on the several Chilean Tropaeolum, and even yesterday I saw nothing. That’s because I was searching in the little spot where I knew the corm was planted. The sprout I decapitated today had emerged somewhere else, and I did not associate the thin black “wire” with the Tropaeolum planted nearby. I’ll try to spend the rest of the day indoors reading. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Tue Oct 27 13:29:03 2009 Message-Id: <44884.7646.qm@web86302.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Ouch! Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:29:00 +0000 (GMT) I have rooted these in the past. Don't have to now as they increase fast enough not to be necessary any longer.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 Well, I figured out what was happening with the black “wire”, but I figured it out too late: the black “wire” was in fact the sprout of one of the Chilean Tropaeolum. Because these plants branch freely, no permanent damage was done. The part of the stem I did not break off is perhaps eight inches long and already had started to branch. From totototo@telus.net Tue Oct 27 13:39:03 2009 Message-Id: <4AE6CDC4.11209.8918FBF@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Scilla lingulata ciliolata and some crocuses Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:39:00 -0700 On 27 Oct 2009, at 11:17, Jim McKenney wrote: > . . . in bloom, if you can call it that, is that very annoying form of Crocus > kotschyanus which produces deformed flowers of a pale gray-white. Over the years > (and it’s been around for decades: don’t the growers ever look at these things > when they bloom?) I’ve bought this as Crocus zonatus and C. zonatus albus. If > forms comparatively large, knobby corms . . . When I first had my own garden to play in, nearly 35 years ago now (how time flies when you're having fun!), I bought C. "zonatus", probably from Dutch stock in a local garden center, and received a somewhat different form: small flowers, but not deformed. The flowers were, iirc (if I recall correctly), about the size of those of C. ochroleucus. Shortly after moving to my present place in 1988, I again bought C. "zonatus" and that time received the same form you are moaning about. It's clearly very badly virused, so much so that I'd rogue it out if I still had it. At this late date I can't recall if that's what I did or whether it decided my heavy damp soil wasn't to its liking and took care of the matter on its own. These days I have a very fine form of C. kotschyanus derived from a naturalized stand of them here. The flowers are as large as those of any crocus, and given how it's spread where naturalized, it's clearly fertile, though I haven't seen seed capsules I can attribute to it. The flowers are pale lilac, but in some lights (i.e. late afternoon) may appear almost pink. The color varies, but so far no pure white form has arisen. So there is hope for you, Jim. A decent form of C. kotschyanus does indeed exist. Perhaps to commemorate your travail we should assign the cultivar name 'McKinney Deformation' to that badly virused version of what is actually a very nice crocus. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From msittner@mcn.org Tue Oct 27 13:55:35 2009 Message-Id: <20091027175524.163224C015@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hyacinthoides lingulata Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:54:53 -0700 Hi, As Lauw suggests the plant Jim McKenney calls Scilla linguata ciliolata seems to be accepted now under the name Hyacinthoides linguata so that is how we have it listed on the wiki. When Lauw talked about the bulb helping to define this I took a picture of it, but never had time to add it, but just did so now. I also purchased this species from Jane and absolutely love it. It multiplies rapidly and I like it so much that I kept two pots of it this year which I try not to do since I'm trying to grow less not more. I need to try it in the ground. It is so fun to have a bluish flowering autumn species and it is so dainty too. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hyacinthoides#lingulata When I was adding this picture to the wiki, I remembered again that we don't have any photos of the Hycinthoides weedy species, Hyacinthoides hispanica that so many people grow. I don't have time to add any pictures for anyone else, but perhaps one of those people who understand how the wiki works and have a photo might like to supply one? Mary Sue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Oct 27 14:56:28 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Hyacinthoides lingulata ssp ciliolata and some crocuses Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:56:06 -0700 I was surprised to read that Jim McKenney considers the color of Hyacinthoides lingulata ssp ciliolata to be dull gray-blue. The stock from which his plant is derived produces flowers of attractive clear light blue. I wonder if his plant is receiving too little sunlight (mine's in full sun), or if the acidity of the soil affects the color. Mine are in a fairly acidic soil, as is common in this region, and I rarely add lime to the mix in which I plant my bulbs. There is something about the soil here in the Cascade foothills that seems to deepen color in many flowers, particularly roses; the soil (volcanic in origin) is high in potassium and iron. I have another subspecies, ssp. lingulata, which flowers about 3 weeks earlier than ssp. ciliolata. The early-flowering one is more susceptible to defoliating in cold temperatures, but it comes back the next year. Both of them increase well vegetatively but I have never obtained ripe seed from them. Jim is probably correct in thinking it would not be a good open-garden plant, because the rather succulent foliage is easily damaged if it freezes when wet. It is, however, a very small plant and easily grown in a small container. It's a little disappointing that many species formerly placed in the genus Scilla have been transferred to Hyacinthoides, though when you look at the bulbs it's easy to see one morphological reason for doing so. The existence of Hyacinthoides campanulata (Spanish bluebell) and its horticultural hybrids with H. non-scripta turns many gardeners off the whole genus because Spanish bluebells are so invasive. Some people still know them as Scilla (they went through Endymion, too), and as a result will not plant any member of the genus Scilla -- just as experience with Muscari armeniacum or M. azureum keeps them from trying any of the better-behaved Muscari species. Scilla itself has also been split by Speta into about 14 genera, but I don't know how widely this view is being accepted. Incidentally, one still encounters some Hyacinthoides under the name Hyacinthus -- I obtained at least one such species from Monocot Nursery's seedlist in the early 1990s. The bulbs of Hyacinthoides and Hyacinthus are, however, quite distinct in appearance. The old Dutch stock of Crocus kotschyanus was sold under various names, unfortunately including C. karduchorum, which is the valid name of a rarely grown species, also lavender and fall-flowering but distinguished by a very finely divided pure white stigma. (I was able to distribute a few corms of C. karduchorum a couple of years ago, having raised it from seed originating with the Gothenburg Botanic Garden, and I hope they are being cherished.) If Jim's plants have deformed flowers, they are, as Rodger notes, infected with virus and should be discarded. This strain increases very fast vegetatively but doesn't flower much. There are, however, at least two free-flowering selections of C. kotschyanus available, one named 'Reliant' and another that I have only under the collectors' initials, JRJK. I have never seen symptoms of virus in the latter, and also they will self-sow a little, the seeds being transported by ants into grassy areas typical of crocus habitat in nature. The best naturalizing fall crocuses here are C. speciosus, which is good in northern gardens too, being of alpine origin, and C. pulchellus. Both the former can be obtained in several named forms. Also doing well in the garden are C. nudiflorus and C. serotinus. C. cartwrightianus is another possibility for the open garden in moderate climates. If I lived in California, I'd use C. goulimyi, C. niveus, and C. boryi extensively. Like spring crocuses, these fall-flowering ones are safest planted in the lawn or in crevices in the rock garden, where voles and other rodents are least likely to get at them. If you have a retentive soil, C. banaticus can be a real success, but my soil here dried out too much in summer. Later in the fall there is C. ochroleucus, surprisingly cold-hardy, and it somehow avoids the voles where little else does; it is, however, a little crocus and doesn't open up in the typically bad weather of early December. Growing under cover here and in flower now are the various subspecies of C. cancellatus, which can be very beautifully marked; C. mathewii with its deep violet throat; C. pallasii and C. asumaniae, similar but the latter is more beautiful; the large C. niveus, in white and pale blue; and several kinds of C. serotinus. C. moabiticus continues to struggle along but I think I've lost C. hermoneus at last, after 16 years. There are a couple of the fall-flowering subspecies of C. biflorus, such as C. b. melantherus, but mice got C. b. pseudonubigenus a couple of years ago, and I would very much appreciate knowing of anyone who still has it. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Oct 27 14:58:42 2009 Message-Id: <000801ca5737$811ba1d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Ouch! Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:58:42 -0400 That's good news, Brian. I'll try it. Jim McKenney From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Oct 27 15:34:58 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: tulip seeds and germination Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:08:50 -0700 Kathleen wrote, >This summer I decided to sacrifice 100 Tulipa sylvestris seeds to >science: >Group 1 had visible embryos in dark, nicely shaped seeds, n was 25; 2 >had dark, nicely shaped seeds, but no visible embryos, n was 25; 3 >had smaller, misshapen, clear light-colored seeds, n was 50. >...Three months later I now have germinating seeds in groups 1 & 2; 100% >and 50%, respectively; and no germination in group 3. > >My conclusion is that for this species, and perhaps for most tulips, >it is worth sorting out the light colored, small, misshapen seeds, >and keeping the larger, darker seeds. This is true of many liliaceous plants that produce seeds with flat papery wings. You don't have to be as scientific as Kathleen was and sort them under a dissecting scope. It works pretty well, once you get used to it, to place them in a bowl with straight sides, about 2 to 3 inches deep (such as a small mixing bowl, and it should not be plastic because the seeds will cling to plastic), and blow very gently on them. The seeds without embryos will easily fly out, and the heavier, viable seeds will remain in the bowl. Do this outdoors or over a cloth, or you will get chaff all over the room. Start carefully with just a faint puff of breath until you discover what works. You will find a few species that have seeds so small that this isn't an effective sorting technique, but it works for most tulips, lilies, and fritillarias. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Oct 27 15:18:57 2009 Message-Id: <000901ca573a$5479ab60$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Crocus kotschyanus; was RE: Scilla lingulata ciliolata and some crocuses Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:18:56 -0400 Roger, I'm well aware that good forms of Crocus kotschyanus exist - several grow in this garden. The color of this commonly grown species is difficult to describe; I think of them as being opalescent because depending on the light conditions, they might appear to range among pale blue, or pinkish lilac, or dull matte mauve. I was looking at the crocuses in one of the frames the other day - a dull, overcast day - and I was surprised to see how close in color C. kotschyanus, C. thomasii, C. cartwrightianus, C. pulchellus and C. longiflorus were when there was no sun. They are not exactly alike, but from a few feet away and without sunlight, they are very similar. I have no idea what causes the deformation seen in the plants of Crocus kotschyanus I described; but if it is virus, the commercial growers seem unconcerned by it. Doesn't it seem unlikely that a commercial crocus grower would tolerate a virus infected stock year after year? You would think that commercial growers would be quick to get rid of virused stock; yet this plant has been around for a long time and stocks from commercial sources are "pure" - all of the plants show this condition. Evidently it is being propagated vegetatively. And if it is a virus, it apparently does not affect the vigor of the plant: the corms of this form are often very large compared to those of other forms of Crocus kotschyanus. Now on to another topic related to this species. In the past I've mentioned a local lawn in which hundreds, maybe thousands, of Crocus kotschyanus flowered yearly. I went by this site the other day and was dismayed to see very few of the crocuses - perhaps a dozen were there. Does anyone know if there are lawn weed killers which will kill the crocuses and not the grass? What a pity... Jim McKenney From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Oct 27 15:38:11 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Crocus kotschyanus Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:38:05 -0700 Jim McKenney wrote: >Doesn't it seem unlikely that a commercial crocus grower >would tolerate a virus infected stock year after year? Falling on the floor laughing! Jane McGary From contact@bulbargence.com Tue Oct 27 15:45:51 2009 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Iris bicapitata Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:45:46 +0100 Dear Angelo, It just reminded me to contact you to report that the Iris bicapitata you gave me a year ago has flowered last spring and is again in flower since early Octobre . When I looked up your writing: "Iris bicapitata is endemic of Gargano peninsula, the classic form is deep violet, the stem is 40cm tall and carries two flowers very scented. Rare individuals have other colors, in mixed combination of yellow, white, blue but for the moment I haven't propagated them enought to trade. The unique feature of this species is that is the only true reblooming bearded Iris I have ever seen, it flowers in October November, till spring," It confirms this and might just go on flowering all winter !!This plant is quite special. Kind greetings Lauw de Jager From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Oct 27 15:47:22 2009 Message-Id: <000a01ca573e$4c89f960$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Crocus kotschyanus Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:47:21 -0400 When I wrote " Doesn't it seem unlikely that a commercial crocus grower >would tolerate a virus infected stock year after year?" Jane responded with " Falling on the floor laughing!" And she's right, we all know that commercial stocks of many if not most cultivated plants are virused. But those virus infections typically do not spoil the flowers themselves for the uses to which most gardeners put them -however much they might influence the long term success with the plants in question. But what I meant was something different: it still seems odd to me that any commercial grower would tolerate a stock 100% virus infected and, more to the point, deformed and ugly. Nobody gets what they think they are getting when such stocks are sold. Jim McKenney From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Tue Oct 27 15:47:34 2009 Message-Id: <980614.69318.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: What's blooming in Urbana. Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Hello:   I used to live in C-U for about 8 years. How are things up there.  I know the weather is better in Texas (hee hee), but I missed the mild summers and great fall color (and the Illini actually winning a game). I had many Hippeastrums in a greenhouse while I was in grad school so that's how I hooked up with the IBS and worked my first job in CA and met some people with the PBS. Now i work with cotton for the USDA in College Station, TX.   Take care and bundle up for the long winter.   James. --- On Mon, 10/26/09, gentian21 wrote: From: gentian21 Subject: [pbs] What's blooming in Urbana. To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 10:43 PM I have my last spike of Rhodophiala blooming.  That has given me almost continuous bloom from last week of August until now.  Not very many since I have only had them for 3-4 years.  Planted in 4 locations and in pots.  They have been reliably evergreen here.  Lots of crocus specious and some c. nudiflorus. I was surprised to see a Cyclamen purpurescens reblooming.  It is by far the best performer here in spite of the soil being continuousy wet all summer except for totally dry in September.  They always seem to bloom in the hottest period of July.  A kahlii ginger still in bloom.  Some daphnes reblooming.  I am already looking forward to the Corydalis bulbosa next spring.  Last year I tucked one in the crack in the driveway and it did great so this summer i filled the entire row with them.  Just the kind of place they like.  Now that I have a car in addition to a truch I will have to park the truck somewhere else for a month.  I am hoping to have luck with Tropaelum tricolor   and Boomeria hirtella in the greenhouse. Frank Cooper East central Illinois zone 5b From totototo@telus.net Tue Oct 27 16:17:56 2009 Message-Id: <4AE6F2F7.18428.922DED6@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Misnamed and virused Dutch bulbs Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:17:43 -0700 On 27 Oct 2009, at 15:18, Jim McKenney wrote: > Doesn't it seem unlikely that a commercial crocus grower would tolerate a > virus infected stock year after year? You would think that > commercial growers would be quick to get rid of virused stock... Well, maybe *you* would think that Jim, but as far as I've ever been able to tell, the Dutch bulb industry does not put the word "honest" in its ads looking for new employees. Misnamed bulbs from Dutch sources have been the target of complaints since the late 1940s; there's a moan'n'groan about it in an AGS publication from that time. (Maybe not the journal/bulletin, but one of the secondary publications.) In my younger, more naive days I used to point out to local garden centers that the corms they were selling of Crocus 'such and such' couldn't be true to name because the tunics weren't right. Eventually I awoke to the fact that the garden centers really didn't care, weren't interested, and weren't about to do anything about it, so I stopped. What I noticed repeatedly was that even if what you were getting wasn't true to name, it was a crocus of about the same color. It was common to see C. tommasinianus labelled as one of the blue chrysanthus/bicolor cultivars. Or you'd buy a yellow chrysanthus cultivar and get the huge Dutch Yellow instead. Most customers wouldn't care: they planted a bluey-purply or yellowy crocus in the fall and that's what flowered in the spring. My point is that the substitutions were done quite knowingly; these were no innocent mixups! So between persistent misnaming and sending out virused stock, I have concluded that the Dutch bulb industry is (to coin a phrase) a bunch of crooks. I admire the Dutch in many ways, but not in this regard. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From ang.por@alice.it Tue Oct 27 16:45:44 2009 Message-Id: From: Subject: Iris bicapitata Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:45:41 +0100 Dear Lauw, glad to hear the good performance of this species for you too, indeed te reblooming habit seems to be reliable also in different climates. Also hardiness is very high, but this wes more obvious as this species grows in areas subject to winter snowfalls yearly best regards Angelo Porcelli Apulia - South of Italy Alice Messenger ;-) chatti anche con gli amici di Windows Live Messenger e tutti i telefonini TIM! From oothal@hotmail.com Tue Oct 27 18:04:55 2009 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Using 2 liter soda pop bottles for pots Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:03:59 -0500 Hi All, Being both somewhat low on the economic ladder and being fairly cheap on top of that. I use 2 Liter plastic bottles for pots. They are both durable and don't disintegrate in the sun like a lot of plastics do. Cutting the top off has always been an easy task. Though I have found a trick to that to make it easier. Lay the bottle on its side holding the bottom of the bottle in your left hand. (reverse if your a lefty) With a sharp knife pierce the bottle just a little to the right of the top of the label. (or just a little to the right of where you want to top of the pot to be. Rotate the bottle so the slit you jut made is on the bottom, and insert the top blade of a pair of scissors into the slit. It is easier to cut along the label this way to give you a pot with no drain holes. If you like bog plants your really got just the thing. Most of us though want some drain holes in the bottom. I tried so many different methods of making holes in the bottom that nothing really ever worked out quite right. Then a few weeks ago I got serious with trying to find just the right method. Then after hours of searching I came across the perfect method. A soldering iron. Plug in the soldering iron and set your soon to be pot down in front of you with the bottom up. When the iron is hot melt a hole to suit you. I prefer longer narrow holes. The tip of my soldering iron makes just the width I like. If I have the soldering iron already hot and ready to go. I can make a pot out of a 2 liter bottle in less than a minute. I was amazed at how fast and easy the soldering iron makes drain holes. I hope this helps someone, though you do need a supply of bottles but they are fairly easy to round up. Justin Smith Woodville, TX 8b/9a _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009 From Blee811@aol.com Tue Oct 27 18:20:21 2009 Message-Id: From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Misnamed and virused Dutch bulbs Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:20:16 EDT In a message dated 10/27/2009 4:18:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, totototo@telus.net writes: So between persistent misnaming and sending out virused stock, I have concluded that the Dutch bulb industry is (to coin a phrase) a bunch of crooks. I admire the Dutch in many ways, but not in this regard. I have heard it said that "the Dutch are never out of a variety". However, I think when you're throwing accusations around, you should clarify whether you mean the Dutch growers in Holland or the sellers in the States. I suspect the misnaming is probably more the work of the sellers than the growers. These sellers are also the ones who sometimes (at least they used to) make up new names for established cultivars to make them more "saleable". Bill Lee From prallen2@peoplepc.com Tue Oct 27 18:31:27 2009 Message-Id: <3295117.1256682677952.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: patty allen Subject: Using 2 liter soda pop bottles for pots Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:31:17 -0400 (EDT) JUSTIN, I DRINK LOTS OF COFFEE AND I DO THE SAME WITH THE FOLGER'S CANISTERS. PATTY -----Original Message----- >From: Justin Smith >Sent: Oct 27, 2009 6:03 PM >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: [pbs] Using 2 liter soda pop bottles for pots > > >Hi All, > > > >Being both somewhat low on the economic ladder and being fairly cheap on top of that. I use 2 Liter plastic bottles for pots. They are both durable and don't disintegrate in the sun like a lot of plastics do. Cutting the top off has always been an easy task. Though I have found a trick to that to make it easier. Lay the bottle on its side holding the bottom of the bottle in your left hand. (reverse if your a lefty) With a sharp knife pierce the bottle just a little to the right of the top of the label. (or just a little to the right of where you want to top of the pot to be. Rotate the bottle so the slit you jut made is on the bottom, and insert the top blade of a pair of scissors into the slit. It is easier to cut along the label this way to give you a pot with no drain holes. > > > >If you like bog plants your really got just the thing. Most of us though want some drain holes in the bottom. I tried so many different methods of making holes in the bottom that nothing really ever worked out quite right. Then a few weeks ago I got serious with trying to find just the right method. Then after hours of searching I came across the perfect method. A soldering iron. Plug in the soldering iron and set your soon to be pot down in front of you with the bottom up. When the iron is hot melt a hole to suit you. I prefer longer narrow holes. The tip of my soldering iron makes just the width I like. > > > >If I have the soldering iron already hot and ready to go. I can make a pot out of a 2 liter bottle in less than a minute. I was amazed at how fast and easy the soldering iron makes drain holes. > > > >I hope this helps someone, though you do need a supply of bottles but they are fairly easy to round up. > > > > > >Justin Smith > >Woodville, TX 8b/9a > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. >http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009 >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com From ang.por@alice.it Tue Oct 27 18:32:50 2009 Message-Id: From: Subject: Colchicum bivonae in habitat Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:32:41 +0100 I have added a number of photos in habitat of Colchicum bivonae in Basilicata - Southern Italy, to show the quite large variability of this species. There are several forms, with round tepals or pointed, dark or pale, more or lesse tesselated, the showiest being the cup-shaped ones. The typical habitat spreads from open pastures to sparse oak woodlands, at an average quote of 400-600m (1200-1800 ft). Indeed the material in cultvation probably doesn't cover such a range, being all more or less clones of few original samples. Enjoy Angelo Porcelli Alice Messenger ;-) chatti anche con gli amici di Windows Live Messenger e tutti i telefonini TIM! From kadai98@yahoo.com Tue Oct 27 22:04:18 2009 Message-Id: <106555.77709.qm@web57609.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: joon Subject: ID needed for Neomarica Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:04:05 -0700 (PDT) In the past few years, many beautiful flowering bulbs have been introduced to Thailand. Many have grown here quite well. This is especially true for the genus Neomarica. Today one of my Neomaricas has its very first flowers. Unfortunately, I am unable to ID it. This one is probably the largest among N. northiana and N. candida in terms of flower's and leaf's size. The flower is fragrant. What makes it distinctive is the spotted petals. Can anybody help me ID this Neomarica sp? Photos can be viewed at http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadai Best regards, Pongsak (KaDAI) From aclyburn17@verizon.net Tue Oct 27 23:16:19 2009 Message-Id: <1107381687.232786.1256699766603.JavaMail.root@vms232.mailsrvcs.net> From: aclyburn17@verizon.net Subject: Using 2 liter soda pop bottles for pots Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:16:06 -0500 (CDT) From maxwithers@gmail.com Wed Oct 28 00:12:24 2009 Message-Id: <51e9bfed0910272112l5b80d925pe24440c8377f6beb@mail.gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Hyacinthoides Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:12:23 -0700 I am no bluebell expert, but I do have a habitat picture I took a few years ago of a Hyacinthoides I suspect is hispanica -- because the "habitat" is a yard overgrown with Allium triquetrum and Centranthus ruber, with some Oxalis pes-caprae for good measure. More to the morphological point, it has nodding scapes, which I vaguely remember differentiating the English from the Spanish. I'm happy to upload it to the wiki if someone would confirm the ID: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badthings/448520983/ (Lest the comments there are confusing, I thought the plant was H.non-scripta at the time). Best, Max Withers Oakland, CA Where Crocus cartwrightianus and sativa are blooming simultaneously this week. In past years sativus has been a week or so earlier. From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] Hyacinthoides lingulata > .... > When I was adding this picture to the wiki, I remembered again that > we don't have any photos of the Hycinthoides weedy species, > Hyacinthoides hispanica that so many people grow. I don't have time > to add any pictures for anyone else, but perhaps one of those people > who understand how the wiki works and have a photo might like to supply > one? > > Mary Sue From kjdem1@gmail.com Wed Oct 28 02:33:15 2009 Message-Id: <003101ca5798$7e1ebe70$7a5c3b50$@com> From: "K DeMott" Subject: ID needed for Neomarica Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:32:56 -0600 This looks like Neomarica gracilis KJ -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of joon Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:04 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] ID needed for Neomarica In the past few years, many beautiful flowering bulbs have been introduced to Thailand. Many have grown here quite well. This is especially true for the genus Neomarica. Today one of my Neomaricas has its very first flowers. Unfortunately, I am unable to ID it. This one is probably the largest among N. northiana and N. candida in terms of flower's and leaf's size. The flower is fragrant. What makes it distinctive is the spotted petals. Can anybody help me ID this Neomarica sp? Photos can be viewed at http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadai Best regards, Pongsak (KaDAI) From prallen2@peoplepc.com Wed Oct 28 05:32:02 2009 Message-Id: <2793030.1256722310776.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: patty allen Subject: ID needed for Neomarica Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 05:31:50 -0400 (EDT) I GROW THE NEOMARICA GRACILIS HERE IN SOUTHEAST TEXAS, AND THE BLOOMS LOOK LIKE THE ONES ON MY PLANTS, EXCEPT FOR THE (LOOKS LIKE BLUE) STIPPLING ON THE LOWER PETALS. THE PETALS ON MY PLANTS ARE WITHOUT THAT COLORATION, IF INDEED THAT IS WHAT IT IS, RATHER THAN DISCOLORATION DUE TO MOISTURE, ETC. PATTY -----Original Message----- >From: K DeMott >Sent: Oct 28, 2009 2:32 AM >To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' >Subject: Re: [pbs] ID needed for Neomarica > >This looks like Neomarica gracilis > >KJ > >-----Original Message----- >From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >On Behalf Of joon >Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:04 PM >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: [pbs] ID needed for Neomarica > >In the past few years, many beautiful flowering bulbs have been introduced >to Thailand. >Many have grown here quite well. This is especially true for the genus >Neomarica. >Today one of my Neomaricas has its very first flowers. Unfortunately, I am >unable to ID it. > >This one is probably the largest among N. northiana and N. candida in terms >of flower's and leaf's size. >The flower is fragrant. What makes it distinctive is the spotted petals. > >Can anybody help me ID this Neomarica sp? > >Photos can be viewed at > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadai > >Best regards, >Pongsak (KaDAI) > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Wed Oct 28 14:40:15 2009 Message-Id: <3b9284cd0910281140r7a6b9209i7904ed0788b64c41@mail.gmail.com> From: "J. Agoston" Subject: Crocus kotschyanus Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:40:07 +0100 This is correct. We have found 2 viruses in C. kotschyanus. Iris Severe Virus & Cucumber Mosaic Virus. Moreover I have constantly complainig about viruses to the supplyers, they ignored me. There is usually 1 grower for rarer items and the inspections are in spring so the inspectors won't see any sign of infection. And the severely infected plants won't flower. I've bought 7/8 size bulbs and 1 have flowered from the 20 or so from the infected. I also bought 5 bulbs from seed grown 3,5/+ size and all have flowered most of them more flowers from a shoot. While I was working in Holland I saw that they do not really care (most of them!) about plant health, they live from the money after selling so they sell, everything. One of the grower's association started a campaign to let growers and people know that plants are living, so they have to treat them like living things. Jim is correct, most commercial stock are infected with viruses. I saw Paeonias in Holland and most of them were infected. Especially the Itoh-hybrids. Even tulips in Keukenhof were infected with viruses and they don't even cared about it to pull the bad ones out. And customers don't see the infection if the plants are dormant. And the people of the street does not realize if the plants are sick. So you can still raise plants from seed or buy tissue cultured plugs whose are cleand from viruses. Of course the latter are much-much more expensive. This topic is my favourite and I could write several pages what I have seen but this is a public list... Bye, Jan, Z5a, Hungary From juliguari@yahoo.com.ar Wed Oct 28 17:57:18 2009 Message-Id: <71586.63164.qm@web112019.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Juli=E1n_Guariniello?= Subject: cyrtanthus´s seeds Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, i write from Argentina. i need to know how i can buy cyrtanthus´s seeds or bulbs from here, or change bulbs of cyrtanthus elatus for others species by post with somebody. Thanks. Julián. Argentina. Yahoo! Cocina Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina. http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ From eagle85@flash.net Wed Oct 28 18:22:20 2009 Message-Id: <94BC5491-FDFF-413C-A8F4-68D9BA4A774D@flash.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: cyrtanthus´s seeds Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:22:07 -0700 "Hi all, i write from Argentina. i need to know how i can buy cyrtanthus´s seeds or bulbs from here, or change bulbs of cyrtanthus elatus for others species by post with somebody. Thanks. Julián. Argentina." I have large blooming size Cyrtanthus falcatus and Cyrtanthus herrei available for trade. Do you have Haemanthus goianum? others? Doug Westfall From mepazblanco@gmail.com Wed Oct 28 21:17:57 2009 Message-Id: <3c9070e50910281817n48ff64fcp13692553761af153@mail.gmail.com> From: Maria Eugenia Paz Blanco Subject: cyrtanthus´s seeds Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:17:53 -0400 Hi Julian, my name is Maria and I am from Argentina too. I must confess you that I just started this year as member of the PBS, but I am already enjoying this great group of people. Still have not much to share, but I start building up a nice collection of bulbs, specially amaryllids, that are my "Aquile's heel". I don't have much to offer, I will look at my seedlings tomorrow and tell you what I have to offer you. Actually I am living in Florida, but the good news, I must share with you, is that I will be going to Argentina, to visit family, around November 10, I will be there for a couple of weeks and as we have family in Buenos Aires and La Pampa, will be visiting both provinces. I will send you an email to you privately if you are interested, Regards, Maria. 2009/10/28 Douglas Westfall > "Hi all, i write from Argentina. i need to know how i can buy > cyrtanthus´s seeds or bulbs from here, or change bulbs of cyrtanthus > elatus for others species by post with somebody. Thanks. > Julián. > Argentina." > > I have large blooming size Cyrtanthus falcatus and Cyrtanthus herrei > available for trade. > > Do you have Haemanthus goianum? others? > > Doug Westfall > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Maria Eugenia Paz Blanco From idavide@sbcglobal.net Thu Oct 29 14:53:49 2009 Message-Id: <792415.78674.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: ID needed for Neomarica Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Dear Pongsak   It looks like you may have a hybrid.   One of the parents appears to be one of the white flowered species – N. candida, N. gracilis, or N. northiana.  These three species can be distinguished by the appearance of the plant, but not by the appearance of the flower, because all three have nearly identical flowers.  Of the three, N. candida is the one with perfume, so I think that is one parent.  However, none of these has spotted tepals; the one Neomarica whtih speckled tepals is N. guttata, which has spots similar to those on your plant, but more of them, and they are typically violet.  So, my guess is that you have a lovely plant of N. candida x N. guttata. David Ehrlich From mberghuis@hughes.net Thu Oct 29 15:01:29 2009 Message-Id: <2ECC481763CE4252A1919450D9FDF1AE@MartinPC> From: "Martin Berghuis" Subject: Unsuscribe Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:01:07 -0700 Please unsubscribe No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.38/2467 - Release Date: 10/29/09 07:38:00 From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Thu Oct 29 15:59:26 2009 Message-Id: <55C77C5A-1B86-467C-902F-70044FA03904@tiscali.it> From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: Flowers database FileMakerPro file Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:59:09 +0100 Hello I uploaded just now the file File sent Flowers database.fp7 at this address , https://rcpt.yousendit.com/766580579/4c1b58c0a2b8b4472eb7edb97fb5984b you need the FileMakerPro program ( 7.0 up to 10 ) to manage it, changing everything you think necessary . ==== I am now uploading the standalone runtime solution : created for Mac users , Uploading My Flowers.zip... 32% completed (15.07 MB of 47.32 MB) you will be able to use it without the FilemakerPro license, but cannot change the file-name , the layouts the scripts and field names , you may otherwise edit the lists inside the main page i'll post a new message as soon as it will be ready for download feel free to ask, mailing me , if necessary Giorgio Pozzi Travedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Thu Oct 29 16:22:40 2009 Message-Id: <2DB46505-8FA1-44B4-B9AC-1FF95D5D306E@tiscali.it> From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: Flower database runtime Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:22:07 +0100 here the runtime solution Here is the link for your file, which will be available for 14 Days or 500 downloads. https://www.yousendit.com/download/Z01QUWVuQVM4NVUwTVE9PQ Giorgio Pozzi Travedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Oct 29 21:14:53 2009 Message-Id: <4AEA3E0A.7040508@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: cyrtanthus´s seeds Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:14:50 -0700 One excellent source of Cyrtanthus species of many kinds is of course Silverhill Seeds in South Africa . And they send mail order throughout the world. You have to keep checking their online catalog because different C. species will be available at different times of the year. There are several other South African sources that also sell seeds of various Cyrtanthus species. I don't have their URLs at hand, but maybe they are listed on Jim Shields's website . Yo tengo unos pocos bulbitos de varios especies. Tengo que ir a Argentina con el trabajo en diciembre y luego otra vez en enero. Tal vez tendré uno o dos días libres en uno de esos viajes y podré traerte algunos... --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Julián Guariniello wrote: > Hi all, i write from Argentina. i need to know how i can buy cyrtanthus´s seeds or bulbs from here, or change bulbs of cyrtanthus elatus for others species by post with somebody. Thanks. > Julián. > Argentina. > > > > > From tjyates@hughes.net Fri Oct 30 10:32:05 2009 Message-Id: <1318991786.188129.1256913124157.JavaMail.mail@webmail03> From: tjyates@hughes.net Subject: Using 2 liter soda pop bottles for pots Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:32:04 +0000 (GMT) From tjyates@hughes.net Fri Oct 30 10:37:55 2009 Message-Id: <903547198.188879.1256913468847.JavaMail.mail@webmail03> From: tjyates@hughes.net Subject: What's blooming in Urbana. Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:37:48 +0000 (GMT) From gentian21@comcast.net Fri Oct 30 11:59:38 2009 Message-Id: <9E23FAF035DF484787ACC2F1FA6D2963@blackdell> From: "gentian21" Subject: What's blooming in Urbana. Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:59:41 -0500 All of your messages are blank for some reason. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] What's blooming in Urbana. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From byron.amerson@gmail.com Fri Oct 30 13:07:23 2009 Message-Id: <8b1330f60910301006y682811c9sdfc82ce1e03866ef@mail.gmail.com> From: Byron Amerson Subject: JJAseeds? Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:06:54 -0700 Hi there, Can anyone tell me if J & J Archibald are still in the seed supply business? If so is there an email address for them, or should I send inquiry via the postal address listed on their archival website? Thank You, Byron in sunny and cool (not cold!) Berkeley, CA From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Oct 30 13:32:05 2009 Message-Id: <4AEB2313.8020707@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: JJAseeds? Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:32:03 -0700 They had a couple of seed lists last fall and winter. They said in those seed lists that they weren't going to update their website or do business online. So you have to write to request their latest list. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Byron Amerson wrote: > Hi there, > > Can anyone tell me if J & J Archibald are still in the seed supply > business? If so is there an email address for them, or should I send > inquiry via the postal address listed on their archival website? > > > From byron.amerson@gmail.com Fri Oct 30 13:41:13 2009 Message-Id: <8b1330f60910301040v34cca1a2t70af94a3c1e82d51@mail.gmail.com> From: Byron Amerson Subject: JJAseeds? Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:40:50 -0700 Thanks, Lee. On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Byron Amerson wrote: > Hi there, > > Can anyone tell me if J & J Archibald are still in the seed supply > business? If so is there an email address for them, or should I send > inquiry via the postal address listed on their archival website? > > Thank You, Byron in sunny and cool (not cold!) Berkeley, CA > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Oct 30 13:55:16 2009 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: JJAseeds? Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:54:58 -0700 Byron asked, >Hi there, > >Can anyone tell me if J & J Archibald are still in the seed supply >business? If so is there an email address for them, or should I send >inquiry via the postal address listed on their archival website? They are still in business but are in the process of rebuilding their website, so they don't have online ordering at this time. I didn't receive a printed seed list this fall, though I am on their mailing list, so perhaps they didn't issue one. I would write to them by post and ask to be put on the print mailing list. The Archibalds have been the premier source for seed of hardy bulbs for the past two decades, and my collection would not be anywhere near what it is today without their efforts. In addition to their own collections, they have been distributing those of other specialists, including John Blanchard (the Narcissus expert) and John Watson and Anita Flores of Chile, as well as Californian collectors. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From byron.amerson@gmail.com Fri Oct 30 14:11:23 2009 Message-Id: <8b1330f60910301110vf45e21dh22f88ce62e813c0f@mail.gmail.com> From: Byron Amerson Subject: JJAseeds? Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:10:55 -0700 Jane, Indeed, I made the inquiry to the list after browsing images of your Fritillaria on the Wiki, many of which you mention seed accession as the Archibalds. I just dropped them a letter requesting a list. Thanks for the information. ~Byron On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Byron Amerson wrote: > Hi there, > > Can anyone tell me if J & J Archibald are still in the seed supply > business? If so is there an email address for them, or should I send > inquiry via the postal address listed on their archival website? > > Thank You, Byron in sunny and cool (not cold!) Berkeley, CA > From totototo@telus.net Fri Oct 30 15:15:38 2009 Message-Id: <4AEAD8E5.8159.86E91B6@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: What's blooming in Urbana. Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:15:33 -0700 On 30 Oct 2009, at 10:59, gentian21 wrote: > All of your messages are blank for some reason. That's probably because the PBS mailing list software strips out html and attachments, and the messages from tjyates@hughes.net were probably sent as html only. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From gentian21@comcast.net Fri Oct 30 15:27:38 2009 Message-Id: <696FFCA4A2A749DA81F32E20BED01883@blackdell> From: "gentian21" Subject: What's blooming in Urbana. Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:26:02 -0500 So he just needs to set it to send in both html and plain text, right? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] What's blooming in Urbana. > On 30 Oct 2009, at 10:59, gentian21 wrote: > >> All of your messages are blank for some reason. > > That's probably because the PBS mailing list software strips out html and > attachments, and the messages from tjyates@hughes.net were probably sent > as > html only. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > on beautiful Vancouver Island > > http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From JmsJon664@aol.com Fri Oct 30 15:53:25 2009 Message-Id: <8CC27B1B72DF940-3A84-182D0@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: JJAseeds? Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:52:58 -0400 Hi Byron, I got seed from the Archibalds this last spring. Web: www.JJAseeds.com Jim Jones -----Original Message----- From: Byron Amerson To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, Oct 30, 2009 1:06 pm Subject: [pbs] JJAseeds? Hi there, Can anyone tell me if J & J Archibald are still in the seed supply business? If so is there an email address for them, or should I send inquiry via the postal address listed on their archival website? Thank You, Byron in sunny and cool (not cold!) Berkeley, CA From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 30 16:47:47 2009 Message-Id: <487123.20581.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: ID needed for Neomarica Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Dear Pongsak I should revise my previous answer to your Neomarica ID problem.  While your plant may indeed be the hybrid I guessed at, you should know that there is a form of N. glauca called 'Casca d'Anta' which has a flower quite similar to yours. David E. From msittner@mcn.org Sat Oct 31 11:09:49 2009 Message-Id: <20091031150940.6D3BD4C015@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hyacinthoides and weeds Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:09:17 -0700 Hi, Max Withers has kindly added his picture of Hyacinthoides hispanica to the wiki after I asked if anyone had one to contribute. In case any of you did not look at his photo on flickr.com, the picture of the garden shows a grouping of plants that can survive with no care at all in Northern California, many of which, are considered noxious weeds. Some of us would never plant those plants knowing they could take over and perhaps spread to the wild, but this gardener took advantage of how easy they all are to grow and at least in spring has a splash of color in the front yard. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hyacinthoides#hispanica From ds429@comcast.net Sat Oct 31 11:26:48 2009 Message-Id: <000601ca5a3e$89b4cc40$9d1e64c0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 224 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:26:37 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 224" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Roy Herold: (SEEDS) 1. Polygonatum falcatum 'Silver Streak' (or 'Silver Stripe' or 'Silver Lining') 2. Polygonatum macranthum The most spectacular Solomon's Seal. Long arching stems nearly 2m long, with big shiny leaves and huge, 5cm long flowers. 3. Polygonatum odoratum 'Red Legs' Originally from Leo Blanchette, his selection for the reddest stems. These are redder than any other polygonatum I have encountered, and are particularly showy this fall as the leaves turn yellow. Very different habit from the plant offered as P. odoratum 'Variegated', with wider, closer spaced leaves and more compact. 4. Polygonatum sp. My collection from Yunnan in 1996, but not sure exactly where (lost the tag...). Sort of like cirrhifolium, but might be something else. Up to 2m tall but needs some support at this height from a stake or neighboring shrubs. White flowers, red fruit. Polygonatum planting instruction from Aaron Floden: "As far as sowing the seed, what I have done to get the quickest germination is to set them outside or refrigerate for 40-60 days, take out into 75+ temperatures which will initiate formation of a rhizome, let grow for 60 days (you can fertilize lightly during this time), then acclimate to another winter temperature. This will shorten the appearance of the first leaf from two growing seasons to about 9 months. I did this with several species this past winter and have the first leaves going dormant now." 5. Arisaema stewardsonii The lumpers put this in with A. triphyllum, but to me it is a very different plant. The spathe is heavily corrugated, usually white on green, and it blooms about a month later than regular triphyllum. This form was found growing wild in North Reading, MA. 6. Glaucidium palmatum Not a bulb, but still worthy of consideration for the woodland garden. These seeds are from what I consider to be my best form, with large 5 to 6 inch pale lavender flowers, usually two per stem, and huge leaves nearly a foot across. Kind of ephemeral so plant now. From Dave Brastow:(Small corms/bulbs) 7. Arisaema candidissimum (few) from Northwest Perennial Alliance seed - 2002 8. Dierama igneum from PBS Bx-58 (offered by Rob Hamilton) 9. Dierama pauciflorum - from PBS Bx-58 (offered by Rob Hamilton) 10. Dierama pauciflorum - from Collector's Nursery (Diana Reeck) 11. Fritillaria affinis Oregon from wild collected seed (Dan & Pat Montague) 12. Fritillaria uva-vulpis (few) original stock from commercial source 13. Massonia pustulata (few) - from PBS Bx-133 (offered by Mary Sue Ittner) 14. Massonia pustulata - from NARGS-2005 (Roy Herold or Michael Guess) 15. Lachenalia juncifolia (few) PBS Bx-102 (offered by Mark Mazer) 16. Muscari comosum If I knew where I got them ... 17. Scadoxus puniceus (few) - from PBS Bx-123 (offered by Chuck Schwartz) 18. Spiloxene linearis - from PBS Bx- 117 (offered by Bill Dijk) From Sophie Dixon: 19. Seed of Hippeastrum striatum From Monica Swartz: (BULBS) 20. Ledebouria crispa 21. Ornithogalum longibracteatum Thank you, Roy, Dave, Sophie, and Monica !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From totototo@telus.net Sat Oct 31 15:13:58 2009 Message-Id: <4AEC2A02.9953.D9368E5@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Pacific BX 224 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:13:54 -0700 On 31 Oct 2009, at 11:26, Dell Sherk quoted Roy Herold: > 6. Glaucidium palmatum ... Kind of ephemeral so plant now. Not so much ephemeral as loaded with germination inhibitors that have to be leached away before the seed will sprout. Soak in water for at least two week, changing it every couple of days, before sowing. The Phil Pearson and (the late) Steve Doonan of Seattle always amused their audiences by describing the method used at Grand Ridge Nursery: put the glaucidium seed in an old sock and suspend it in the toilet tank for a couple of weeks. Every time the toilet is flushed, the water is changed. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From totototo@telus.net Sat Oct 31 15:13:58 2009 Message-Id: <4AEC2A02.11026.D9368CB@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: What's blooming in Urbana. Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:13:54 -0700 On 30 Oct 2009, at 14:26, gentian21 wrote: > So he just needs to set it to send in both html and plain text, right? Best to set it to send only in plain text. For one thing, if you do, the outgoing messages are much, much smaller. For another, the writer saves time by not having to decide what font to use or what color to put the text in. For yet another, you never know what kind of email client your correspondents are using mor what settings and fonts they have. I've got mine set up so that it ignores html unless there is no plain text version. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat Oct 31 23:04:47 2009 Message-Id: <4AECFAD0.8010302@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Dierama seed Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:04:48 +1300 Hello How many years is it for a Dierama seed to grow to flowering please? I collected some seed from the Botanical Gardens and this is they are now going into their second year. Thanks Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand From oothal@hotmail.com Sat Oct 31 22:19:40 2009 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Want to trade my non bulb seed pod for your bulb pod/bulb/root/corm/tubor/undergroundstorageorgan item thingie Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:19:38 -0600 Hi all, I have been working my father hard to get my greenhouse ready for winter. (I don't really work him all that hard) My dad is building a door for my greenhouse so I can get in and out of it easier. I noticed a seed pod on my Euonymus americanus (strawberry bush/bursting heart) It grows wild here, though not very common. One seed pod that got missed by the hungry animals. I was wondering if anyone in the US would like to trade a bulb or bulb seed for it. Though I have absolutely no idea how to germinate them, I am guessing that they need to be fresh so I am not going to pick it until I find someone to trade with. I am not looking for any bulb in particular but thought I would offer it up for trade in case someone wanted it. Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009