Jim so far as I am aware this is not the case, at least not in northern Europe We simply do not have natural lux levels at this time of year commensurate with the needs of this genus between say 50 to 60 degrees North. The answer that you might get for those parts of Europe south of that may well be different of course but at a guess at this time of year, unless relying on artificial grow lights it would need to be south of 40 degrees North. Right now at close to 58 degrees North we get what passes for daylight, i.e. flat grey from roughly 9.30 am until 3.30 pm MAX during say mid November through to late January made worse very often by constant cloud cover. Because of the above, most folks give Clivias a swerve as being too demanding of extra costs, electric etc. The etc includes heating because daytime temperatures are rarely in double figures Celsius, more often between 0 C and 5 C but for those of us inland it is almost invariably night time frosts or prolonged periods of frost between 0 C and in my case - 20 C and sometimes below. Clivias out of doors here is a really fast way to lose money. We are equivalent, crudely for comparison, between USDA Zone 6 here at ABG to USDA Zones 8 and 9 in the south west of England but these comparisons have to be read in the context of erratic maritime influences and northern latitudes with the very short days even at the lower south western regions of the British Isles. The Dutch / Netherlands produce masses of this stuff for distribution along with much else around Europe but there is generally little or no demand out of season here in Scotland or the North of England. Hope this is of some use. Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 128404 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len/ The Professional version does not have this message