From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Thu May 1 08:51:41 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Eremurus robustus Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 06:51:48 -0600 Hello All, We had a discussion on eremurus robustus last fall. I was concerned that my first year seedlings would not survive a winter here in zone 3. Well I'm happy to say that they did survive and are all growing well. I had placed wood over them over the winter to keep the deer from walking on them. That also worked to keep most of the snow off as well. Even with our recurrence of winter last week they survived without the wood cover. I'm keeping a good firm wire mesh over them until I can figure out how to keep the deer out. Linda Foulis Okotoks, Alberta Canada Zone 3 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu May 1 14:27:08 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Carefree garden bulbs in Kansas City Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:35:10 -0500 Dear Mary Sue, I really like you two main criteria for 'carefree' " bulbs': 1. They grow in the ground all year round (not dug to dry in summer, or protected in winter nor pampered in frames or under protection). Just out there in the ground. 2. They bloom reliably in the garden. and I'd add, 3. They make an impact in the landscape. Given these three criteria and with a few minor concessions here's my list, but by genus and this does not include all species, but I'll mention a few. 1. Anemone - The stars here are Anemone blanda both the typical blue 'windflowers' and the selection 'White Splendor'. Hundreds sparkle across the garden. Slightly later A nemorosa and the close relative A. ranunculoides make a smaller statement in the shady areas of the garden. For their color and early bloom, I would not only not be without any of them, I'd always want to plant a few more. 2. Narcissus - I suppose we have a limited selection since we can't grow the paper whites, bulbocodium and many species, but some named cvs are vigorous and reliable such as 'Ceylon', 'Quail', ' Pipit', 'Ice Follies','Dutch Master' and other various large and small cup varieties in yellow , white and with pink cups. The favorite miniature is 'Baby Moon' and for sheer number of flowers 'Geranium''. Among species N. obvallaris, the Tenby Daffodil, is great too and self sows without being too pushy. 3. Crocus,but a limited range since the squirrels love to dig and eat them. C. tomassinianus in all forms esp. the easy 'Ruby Giant' and C. sieberi with emphasis on 'Firefly'. Only C. speciosum gives a fair show in fall, but I love. C. banaticus and Sativus in their season. I grow others, but these are the most carefree. 4. Galanthus - Most do not do well here and I would not include this at all if were not for a single unknown cultivar I got from Don Hacknberry's Appalachian Gardens years ago as "Mighty Atom - NOT' (MAN).This is a winner and has been divided and spread around where it performs exceptionally each spring. In fall G. reginae-olgae does very well. Neither G. nivalis, G. elwesii, woronowii and others do much. The only named cv to hold up to MAN is 'S. Arnott'. 5. Tulipa- again very restricted due to predation. Our favorites are probably odd - T. sylvestris which is almost weedy in its spread underground, and a large clump of T. hageri (?) 'Little Beauty' . T. turkestanica is also reliable. This year T. clusiana 'Lady Jane' has been exceptional. And I just wish we had more T. sprengeri. 6. Arum - Of course A. italicum is a basic work horse, but other surprises such as A. byzantinum, 'Chameleon', A. hygrophyilum. A rupicola and the exotic A nigrum are best. A few others add variety. A close second is Dracunculus vulgaris which doesn't always bloom every year (Thankfully) due to late frost damage of the flower, but the foliage is always impressive and attracts attention. Other foliage Aroids extend this look. 7. Iris and especially easy Junos such as I. magnifica, I willmottiana, I aucheri, I graeberiana. These are very appropriate for the category. A few more are less reliable bloomers, but receive no special care. They are in a raised bed, built into a hillside, but filled with mostly native soil and extra gravel. No special annual care or protection. They do not get borers which destroy most bearded iris eventually. The above are all spring bulbs. Galanthus reginae -olgae blooms in the fall and some Arum show their foliage in fall, but we have a shortage of carefree bulbs for later in the season. The choice in chronological order is: Late spring to summer: (8) Lilium. from species such as L. michiganense and L. formosanum to cvs such as Asiatics, Orientals, Trumpets and Orienpets. We have a few favorites such as 'Gran Paradiso' (Asiatic), 'Leslie Woodruff' and 'Silk Road' (Orienpets) just off hand. 9.Crinum; Although we grow a few more, the most carefree are C. bulbispermum in a range of colors from near white to near red and many pink shades. It has all the best characteristics. C. powellii is perhaps the most abundant crinum, but the flowers do not open as well as others, even C. powellii 'Album' is an improvement. These do get leaves loosely piled over them in fall, when we remember. The new 'Super Ellen' has proven a winner and we anticpate a bigger impact as it grows. Fall: 10, Lycoris - last of the season to bloom and totally care free. The best performers are L. squamigera, chinensis, longituba, caldwellii, and slightly lesser sprengeri and incarnata. These bloom abundantly and in a range of colors from pink to white and yellow as well as size of flowers and season of bloom. Now, in spring, they form great tufts of succulent foliage some knee high and higher. Architecturally impressive and richly colored. There's any number of smaller bulbs that I love. Eranthis, the winter aconite plays a special role for its early bloom and for foliage hundreds of Polygonatum odoratum variegatum have a big show in the shade garden. Minor bulbs from the tiny Scilla bifolia to the larger Fritillaria persica each make a garden event at bloom, but don't have landscape impact for long enough. I am certainly impressed by Boyce's mention of Merendera trigyna (where can I get some to try here? ) and I bemoan the loss of Foxtail lilies here from last year's killer freeze. A planting opportunity for sure !. Hope this gives an impression of the bulb parade in the center of the US. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From antennaria@charter.net Thu May 1 21:45:27 2008 Message-Id: <20080501214526.9J2JD.459726.root@fepweb09> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Sowing seed in situ + spring bulbs Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 21:45:25 -0400 Hello all, Today I was home on this glorious spring day, waiting for a service repairman. It gave an opportunity to look at the garden and take notes and photos. One technique that I've become quite convinced about is sowing certain types of seed in situ. Since my daily commute to and from work is 3 hours, I have very little time during the week to water or coddle seedlings, and I fail miserably with seed sown in small pots, particularly true of bulbs. So, a few years back I started sowing seed outside, directly in the garden beds I intend for the plants to be grown in, and can report great success. Two years ago, receiving a wonderful assortment of fresh Trillium seed, I carefully sowed the seed under a large specimen of Magnolia 'Forrest Pink' (Magnolias are good trees to grow under, as they are tap-rooted, and promote an understory of vegetation). The area is mulched with pine bark, I scratch the seed into the mulch, label the area with 3-4 labels indicating the "patch" where a particular variety is sown, then forget about them. It's been two years, perhaps Trilliums germinate in epigeal fashion the first year, but this spring hundreds upon hundreds of seedlings have appeared. Here's a view of Trillium decipiens with a dozen or so seedlings: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Trillium_decipiens_seedlings2008a.jpg For some Trillium, I've been scratching in the seed for the past several years, and now have dozens upon dozens of seedlings of such species as T. nivale, lancifolium, rugelii, catesbaei, recurvatum, several forms of decumbens, stamineum, decumbens. Newcomer seedlings include Trillium discolor (several clones), flexipes, maculatum, underwoodii, and a few others. Similar to sowing seed, is getting tiny rice grains of Fritillaria, then needing to be patient and wait 4-5 years till they bloom. About 5 years ago I had bought 10 bulblets or rice grains of Fritillaria pudica from Jane McGary's fine annual list of bulb offerings (our illustrious NARGS bulletin editor and bulb aficianado), for a mere $1.00. There were about 20 actual bulb "grains", which I planted, all of which sprout reliably each year, and last year 3 plants bloomed, 5 plants bloomed this year. A delightful little western American frit with bright yellow flowers. Attractive to lily beetle, I hand pick these beasties from various frits. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Fritillaria_pudica_2008a.jpg Spring flowering bulbs were excellent this year. Concentrating on some of the midseason ones, here are some photos taken today or recently, and some commentary. Juno iris have been fabulous, easy to grow in raised sand beds. The number of flowers they put forth is remarkable, such fun "corn plants" that require little or no attention. About 6-7 Juno iris varieties blooming today, 05-01-2008. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_junos_in_bloom_2008a.jpg The very floriferous Iris vicaria http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_vicaria_2008b.jpg Iris x 'Warlsind' has very fragrant flowers, and is a slower grower than the other species. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_Warlsind_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_Warlsind_2008b.jpg Two Muscari are showing well today, the yellow sweetly scented M. macrocarpum, and the old favorite M. 'Valerie Finnis' with light azure blue flowers. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Muscari_macrocarpum_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Muscari_Valerie_Finnis_2008a.jpg Done blooming last week, is one of the many Gagea species, a genus of small, mostly yellow-flowered bulbs, closely allied to Tulipa. Here is a flowering plant of Gagea fibrosa, obtained from Jane McGary's fine specialty bulb list. An overlooked genus, cute little plants a few inches tall. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Gagea_fibrosa_2008a.jpg Hard to tell from this close-up shot, but Tulipa bifloriformis is a very small species, slender and maybe 5-6" tall, with charming creamy white flowers, a yellow center, and brown anthers. It seems more permanent than some of the other Tulipa species. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_bifloriformis_2008a.jpg Here are two similar views of an Arisaema that came to me as A. triphyllum x sikokianum. I do not think A. sikokianum is involved in this putative hybrid, surely it is close to A. amurense, possibly a hybrid with the American A. triphyllum and the asian A. amurense. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Arisaema_tryphyllum_x_amurense_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Arisaema_tryphyllum_x_amurense_2008b.jpg A Corydalis I started from seed several years back has finally flowered, namely Corydalis nobilis: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Corydalis_nobilis_2008a.jpg More to be posted, it's getting late: Regards from Massachusetts, Mark McDonough antennaria@charter.net northwestern Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5 From pandi_bear@bigpond.com Thu May 1 22:24:17 2008 Message-Id: <008801c8abfb$96c9aec0$0100000a@Tiggy> From: "Carolyn Fra" Subject: Sowing seed in situ + spring bulbs Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 12:24:03 +1000 Hi Mark, These pics are great, very clear, :o) Carolyn (Tasmania, Australia) -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mark McDonough Sent: Friday, 2 May 2008 11:45 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc: pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Sowing seed in situ + spring bulbs Hello all, Today I was home on this glorious spring day, waiting for a service repairman. It gave an opportunity to look at the garden and take notes and photos. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _ More to be posted, it's getting late: Regards from Massachusetts, Mark McDonough antennaria@charter.net northwestern Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu May 1 22:33:15 2008 Message-Id: <55742.82397.qm@web84311.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Sowing seed in situ + spring bulbs Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Great photos, Mark. The one of the massed junos should have a lot of people looking over their gardens to find a place for these wonderful plants. I too have gotten away from sowing seed in containers and instead sowing either in ground beds or ideally sowing in the area where the plant is intended to eventually mature. It's interesting that your season doesn't seem to be that much later than ours. Jim McKenney From LucGBulot@aol.com Fri May 2 06:13:51 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7A5454BB3025-1284-138C@WEBMAIL-MB02.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Natal Drakensberg bulbs Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 06:13:41 -0400 Hi All, Just received today my second hand copy of : Flowers of the Natal Drakensberg: The lily, iris and orchid families and their allies - Hilliard O. M. 1990 (ordered on abebooks.com). Most interesting small book (85 pp. - leaflet format), note quite because of the illustrations (small size photographs and only 8 species illustrated, line drawings for?many species), but rather the good description and information about the living conditions (environment and elevation). The flora is treated by genus and for each genus the most common Berg species are discussed... I found it an easy introduction to the most interesting geophyte flora of the Berg... For those interested in the Drakensberg flora and wish to go further I shall also recommand the two following books: Olive Hilliard &?Bill Burt (1987). The Botany of the Southern Natal Drakensberg. Annals of the Kirstenbosch Botanic Gardens, volume 15, 253 pp., National Botanic Gardens Ed. Elsa Pooley (2003). Mountain Flowers. A field Guide to the Flora of the Drakensberg and Lesotho. 320 pp., Flora Publication Trust, Natal Herbarium, Durban. I believe the first of the two is now out of print but can also be obtained at a decent price from abebooks.com. Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Fri May 2 09:57:57 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7A73A5812362-1284-1F7C@WEBMAIL-MB02.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: A list of Drakensberg geophytes with elevations part 1 Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 09:57:51 -0400 Hi all, Though you would all benefit from the list I compiled for myself (I excluded the orchids): Araceae Zantedeschia aethiopica (up to 2250m) Zantedeschia albomaculata (up to 2400m) Liliaceae (sensu lato) Littonia modesta (up to 1450m) Sandersonia aurantiaca (up to 1950m) Androcybium longipes (up to 3000m) Androcybium?striatum (up to 3000m) Wurmbea angustifolia (up to 2300m) Wurmbea eliator (up to 2500m) Wurmbea pusilla (up to 2700m) Wurmbea kraussii (up to 2450m) Wurmbea burttii (up to 2300m) Bulbine abyssinica (up to 2400m) Bulbine capitata (1900 to 2750m) Bulbine favosa (up to 2250m) Anthericum acutum (up to 2450m) Anthericum cooperi (up to 2300m) Anthericum longistylum (up to 1500m) Trachyandra asperata (1700 to 2750m - several forms including var. basutoensis) Trachyandra smalliana (1900 to 2100m) Bowiea volubilis (up to 1675m) Eriospermum ornithogaloides (up to 2400m) Eriospermum hygrophilum (up to 2100m) Eriospermum cooperi (up to 2250m) Eriospermum natalensis (up to 2250m) List will carry on in the next mails... I wonder if anybody cultivates those species and under which conditions (outside South Africa of course)... Luc From jshields@indy.net Fri May 2 10:21:08 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080502095219.039136f0@mail.comcast.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Easy Bulbs Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 10:20:30 -0400 The remarks about sowing bulb seeds directly in the garden got me to thinking. I have some bulbs that seed around without my having to touch the seeds. The following are all in my woodland garden. Chionodoxa lucilae (or whatever they are calling it this week) of course is notorious for seeding itself all over the place. Corydalis solida also seeds itself anywhere it is the least bit happy to be growing. I had volunteer hybrids between 'Beth Evans' and 'George P. Baker' in bloom this year. Some were a vivid red, one a rich violet purple color. I really should have marked the purple one. Corydalis angustifolia 'Georgian White' from Janis Ruksans is also seeding itself around. I'm very pleased to see this happening. It blooms quite early, and it is a nice pure white. Eranthis cilicica is seeding itself very slowly, but a few stray seedlings bloomed this spring. The original bulbs are gone, as far as I can tell. The Chionodoxa, the Corydalis, and the Eranthis have all finished flowering for this year. Fritillaria pallidifolia seems to have seeded itself a little bit. They are just now finishing up blooming for the year. Hymenocallis occidentalis seems to have had 2 or 3 seeds survive sometime in recent years. I try to collect all the seeds of this species to grow in pots. The volunteers are not up to flowering size yet, but nothing else growing in that area has leaves like the Hymenocallis. H. occidentalis is found native in the southwestern-most tip of Indiana and in southern Illinois along the Ohio and Mississippi rivers. It is however very gratifying to see a few volunteer seedlings growing around my bloom size bulbs of occidentalis here in central Indiana. These will not bloom until around August. Trillium are native to this area, but T. cuneatum is not. I seem to have a couple seedlings growing not far from my little group of T. cuneatum. They have not gotten up to 3-leaf stage yet, so they are several years from blooming. Trillium nivale and T. recurvatum are both native to parts of Indiana, so it's not surprising that they seem to be seeding around a little bit as well. T. recurvatum is in full bloom right now while nivale bloomed about a month ago. Other local wildflowers seed themselves readily, including Dicentra cucullaris (Dutchman's Breeches), Claytonia virginica (Spring Beauty), and Polygonatum biflorum (Solomon's Seal). I like this. Several non-native iris species seem to seed themselves around too, especially Iris tectorum and Iris setosum. I haven't tried to figure out if any of the volunteers are hybrids, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were. I have not noticed the native Iris cristata seeding itself, but my plants have spread into nice patches, and they are in bloom right now. None of these are so prolific as to suggest they might become invasive. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri May 2 10:28:04 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: A list of Drakensberg geophytes with elevations part 1 Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 07:27:47 -0700 The only one of Luc's list grown here is Zantedeschia aethiopica, which grows in big clumps outside without any care. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From LucGBulot@aol.com Fri May 2 10:51:40 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7A7B23748A4A-1284-23BC@WEBMAIL-MB02.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: A list of Drakensberg geophytes with elevations part 2 Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 10:51:29 -0400 there we go... Kniphofia northiae (up to 3000m) Kniphofia caulescens (up to 3000m) Kniphofia linearifolia (up to 1980m) Kniphofia ritualis (2100m to 3100m) Kniphofia brachystachya (up to 2400m) Kniphofia breviflora (up to 2400m) Kniphofia evansii (1800m to 2100m) Kniphofia fibrosa (up to 2000m) Kniphofia triangularis (up to 2500m) Kniphofia thodei (up to 2750m) Kniphofia porphyrantha (up to 2800m) Kniphofia fluviatilis (up to 2800m) Kniphofia ichopensis (up to 2450m) Kniphofia laxiflora (up to 2450m) Kniphofia angustifolia (up to 2450m) Agapanthus campanulatus ssp. patens (up to 2400m) All species prefers damp or marshy grasslands, and streambeds (sometimes in running water), only K. northiae is sometimes found among rocks. Tulbaghia acutiloba (up to 1800m) Tulbaghia alliacea (up to 1580m) Tulbaghia ludwigiana (up to 1900m) Tulbaghia leucantha?(up to 2500m) Tulbaghia natalensis (up to 1800m) All species are recorded from rocky grasslands and damp cliffs Albuca fascigiata var. floribunda (1800m to 2400m) Albuca humilis (up to 2800m) Albuca polyphylla (up to 2800m) Albuca pachychlamys (up to 2400m) Albuca shawii (up to 2400m) Albuca rupestris (up to 2450m) All species seems to prefer rocky grounds such as crevices of rock sheets, large boulders, gravel-silt patches... I have to do a break for today but will carry on later today or tomorrow... Luc From jshields104@comcast.net Fri May 2 11:57:34 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080502115359.03a987c0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Trillium Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 11:57:02 -0400 I spent last weekend in the Smokies (Great Smoky Mountains National Park and environs), riding around with a local friend looking at Trillium in bloom. This guy can even spot Trillium NOT in bloom, from a pickup truck traveling 35 mph. Still, we saw Trillium! Around Gatlinburg, Tennessee, just outside the park, Trillium luteum were as common as dandelions along roadsides, both outside the park as well as inside. We saw slopes covered with Trillium grandiflorum in some places and with T. erectum album in others in the park. In the lower elevation areas around Gatlinburg, we saw T. simile, which is probably a subspecies or form of T. erectum album. In a very few places we saw a very few plants of T. rugelii, a white nodding trillium, and T. vaseyi, the red nodding trillium. (Not both in the same places.) I also saw imported (from Kentucky and Missouri) T. flexipes, which looks to me like T. rugelii. The flexipes were planted in my friend's research nursery. The nursery is devoted to studying questions like how does T. simile relate to T. erectum album? How does yellow T. luteum relate to red-brown T. cuneatum? Are the occasional red-brown plants in colonies of luteum mutants or hybrids with the distant cuneatum? He works under the All Taxa Biodiversity Inventory (ATBI) project in Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and he is the Trillium specialist in the project. We did not see T. undulatum, which has not been found inside the park so far, nor T. catesbaei, nor T. sulcatum. Still, I don't think there are many places where you can spend one weekend, stay within a radius of about 20 miles, and see 6 species of Trillium in bloom. It was a great plant weekend! There were also Claytonia caroliniana and Erythronium umbilicatum in bloom at high elevations and Sedum ternatum, Anemonella thalictroides, Geranium maculatum, Iris cristata, and Maianthemum racemosum in bloom in abundance at lower elevations. Now if we could just do something about the food....... Jim Shields back in central Indiana (USA) with a few new roadside weeds. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From msittner@mcn.org Fri May 2 12:06:39 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080502080011.01616db0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions - Gladiolus, Drimia, Rod and Rachel Saunders, KwaZulu-Natal, Rauhia Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 09:06:20 -0700 Hi, I added a number of Alan Horstmann's Gladiolus photos to the wiki. Alan loves to take close-ups so a lot of them are close-ups, but there are also some new species illustrated. Gladiolus acuminatus -- new species http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusOne#acuminatus Gladiolus bullatus -- close-up http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusOne#bullatus Gladiolus carinatus -- many different forms, Gladiolus carneus -- close-ups, Gladiolus caroyphyllaceus -- close-ups http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusThree Gladiolus ceresianus -- new picture http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusThree#ceresianus Gladiolus gracilis and Gladiolus hirsutus -- new pictures http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusFour Gladiolus inflatus, new pictures, Gladiolus maculatus, additional picture http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusFive Gladiolus phoenix -- new species, Gladiolus pritzelii -- new photo, Gladiolus pulcherrimus -- new photo, Gladiolus quadrangulus -- new species Gladiolus rogersii -- new photos, and Gladiolus rudis - new photo http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusSeven Gladiolus trichonemifolius, new photo Gladiolus tristis -- new photos http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusEight Gladiolus watsonius -- new photo http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusNine#watsonius I also made brief wiki pages for Rod and Rachel Saunders and added a picture so if you've wondered what they look like http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/RodSaunders http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/RachelSaunders Finally I added a picture to our Drimia page of Drimia filifolia since there weren't any pictures on that page. This is known to some of us as Tenicroa filifolia. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Drimia I have some other Drimia pictures from Cameron, but who knows when I'll have time to add them as I am busy adding links to the new wiki pages for Rod and Rachel and KwaZulu-Natal (information and picture furnished from Rogan Roth). http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/KwaZulu-Natal Giorgio was kind enough to add a picture from Alessandro Marinello of a Rauhia multiflora flower http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Rauhia I'm counting on some of you to look at these pictures since it takes a very very long time just to list them. Mary Sue From jshields@indy.net Fri May 2 12:11:59 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080502110341.038cc5f0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: A list of Drakensberg geophytes with elevations part 2 Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 12:08:39 -0400 We grow a lot of South African bulbs here, but almost all of them inside the greenhouses. The summer growing Nerine are summered outdoors, most in full sun but the N. bowdenii in the lath house (partial shade). We have one plant of Kniphofia northiae that has survived in the raised rock garden for several years; and Gladiolus oppositiflorus salmoneus survive outdoors all year round in one or two beds. We have a few Crinum that survive the winters outdoors in the ground here, but I'm not sure any of them actually grow in the Drakensberg. C. [bulbispermum X Natal lugardiae] are pretty winter hardy here, as are C. variabile and C. [variabile X bulbispermum]. An occasional C. [macowanii X bulbispermum] and C. [graminicola X bulbipsermum] or the reverse crosses will survive one of our winters. I have one Zantedeschia aethiopica 'Green Goddess' that survives outdoors in the ground all year round, but only right up against the greenhouse wall. Z. rehmannii ought to as well, since some of its hybrids do (e.g., 'Black Forest', 'Black Pearl'). We grow Z. albomaculata only in pots and winter them indoors, dry and cool. Inside the greenhouses, the sky is the limit! Haemanthus, Clivia, Lachenalia, Massonia, etc. Lachenalia and Massonia are strictly winter rainfall plants, of course. Clivia caulescens qualifies as a Drakensberg plant I think, since it grows at Gods Window. Haemanthus albiflos and H. pauculifolius are probably berg plants too. Nerine bowdenii have survived the winter outdoors in the ground here, but they just barely make it; and they never bloom in the ground. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From brent.hine@ubc.ca Fri May 2 12:50:07 2008 Message-Id: <481B4675.8030205@ubc.ca> From: brent hine Subject: A list of Drakensberg geophytes with elevations part 1 Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 09:51:01 -0700 Luc; I grow about 6 species of Kniphofia on your list and some others, including K. brachystachya, caulescens (winter-flowering; just finishing now), ichopensis, laxiflora, triangularis etc. Agapanthus coddii is an evergreen species but not for me. It really performs with tall, big blue flowers in July. I've grown Albuca rupestris, shawii and fastigiata var floribunda for about 4 years. They flower very well and produce a lot of seed. Littonia modesta has been in this garden for 20 years or so. It rises very late (June) and makes a good amount of seed also. Zantedeschia jucunda isn't on your list but it does well. I love its bright yellow flowers. A couple more that aren't on your list but are in the same group are Nerine pudica (white flowers in late Autumn) and Crinum bulbispermum (first bloom last summer). Cheers, Brent Hine UBC Botanical Garden Vancouver, BC Canada Zone 7a From hornig@earthlink.net Fri May 2 12:53:14 2008 Message-Id: <640A28EEF661471886FEFCD302A862BA@ellenPC> From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: A list of Drakensberg geophytes with elevations part 2 Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 13:00:15 -0400 Jim Shields writes of keeping Zantedeschia albomaculata in the greenhouse over the winter. Jim, on my recent trip I saw a lot of these growing at pretty high altitudes in Lesotho, and collected seeds from the highest-altitude spotted population I could find (alas, the highest-altitude plants I saw were all "immaculata"). Have you tried them outdoors? Has anyone else on the list experimented outdoors with collections known to be from high altitudes? Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com From LucGBulot@aol.com Fri May 2 13:04:49 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7A8DBC717231-1284-3030@WEBMAIL-MB02.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Zantedeschia jucunda Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 13:04:37 -0400 Dear Brent, Many thanks for the imput on all species you mentionned... The reason why Zantedeschia jucunda?is not on my list is because?it occurs in the Sekhukhuneland Centre of Floristic Endemism. Z. jucunda is found along the summit of the Leolo Mountain range which runs north south through the central part of Sekhukhuneland. I am concentrating on the Natal Drakensberg for the moment... The Nerine are to?be listed?in a forthcomming mail and to my knowledge there is no Crinum growing above 1400m which is roughly the elevation limit between the KZN Midland hill range and the Drakensberg foothills in the area I try to "investigate"... Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Fri May 2 13:13:22 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7A8EEF28B69B-1284-30BF@WEBMAIL-MB02.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Sekhukhuneland Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 13:13:12 -0400 Hi all, Whoever wants an overview of the biodiversity of the grasslands of Sekhukhuneland should have a look to: http://www.fao.org/ag/agp/agpc/doc/Show/SAfrica/sapaper/saessay.htm http://www.penroc.co.za/newsletters/0309/0309.html Some of our "bulbous friends" are illustrated... Enjoy... Luc From brent.hine@ubc.ca Fri May 2 14:11:48 2008 Message-Id: <481B59AE.1070005@ubc.ca> From: brent hine Subject: Zantedeschia jucunda Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 11:13:02 -0700 Right, thanks Luc. Brent From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri May 2 14:18:30 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Zantedeschia albomaculata Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 13:17:58 -0500 >Jim Shields writes of keeping Zantedeschia albomaculata in the greenhouse >... Have you tried them outdoors? Has >anyone else on the list experimented outdoors with collections known to be >from high altitudes? Dear Ellen and all, I used to grow this species outdoors when I lived in the central city. The bulbs came from a standard commercial (?) source, probably Dutch. The bulbs were planted near a side walk which, combined with the heat of the city, might have contributed to its hardiness. It bloomed there and multiplied until we left. Should be hardy enough for Jim S., too. Best Jim W. We just scraped past 60-80 mile winds overnight and a few scattered tornados, but the wind did take down an old pear tree, our only loss. But everything looks like it has been through the big blow. ! -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From LucGBulot@aol.com Fri May 2 15:38:11 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7AA3286E4B2F-F20-364@WEBMAIL-MB02.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: A list of Drakensberg geophytes with elevations part 3 Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 15:37:57 -0400 and the list carries on: Urginea calcarata (up to 2000m) Urginea capitata (up to 2400m) Urginea macrocentra (up to 2700m) Urginea multisetosa (up to 1600m) Urginea tenella (up to 2600m) Urginea saniensis (2900m and above) With the exception of U. saniensis which is growing in rock crevice on the submit plateau, all other species occurs in more or less damp rockly grasslands. Galtonia candicans (mostly at about 1700m, but up to 2100m) Galtonia regalis (up to 2000m) Galtonia viridiflora (up to 2800m) Habitats ranging from damp or marshy ground (G. candicans), wet and shaded cliffs (G. regalis) to cliff and steep rocky slopes (G. viridiflora). Drimia robusta (up to 2100m) Drimia sphaerocephala (up to 2000m) Rocky grasslands and rock pavements for D. robusta, grasslands for D. sphaerocephala. Dipcadi gracillimum (up to 2400m) Dipcadi viride (up to 2400m) Both species lives in the same places and flower at the same time but?the leaves and flowers are different. Grasslands and edge of rock sheets. Litanthus pusillus (up to 1800m) Massed in rock crevices, often on top of boulders in soil or moss cushions. Merwilla plumbea syn. Scilla natalensis (up to 2000m) Scilla dracomontana (1675m to 2100m) Scilla nervosa (up to 2000m) Scilla saturata (up to 2000m) Scilla carnulosa (up to 1950m) - could not find this taxa in recent literature !!!! anybody has an idea of what it might be ??? Cliffs, rock platforms, broken slope, usualy in shallow and stony soils. Ledebouria cooperi (up to 2100m) Ledebouria sandersonii (up to 2400m) Ledebouria ovatifolia (up to 2000m) Grassy slopes and stony grasslands Eucomis autumnalis ssp. clavata (up to 2450m) Eucomis bicolor (up to 2800m) Eucomis humilis (up to 2400m) Eucomis schijffii (2300m to 3200m) Damp and wet areas often at the base of steep rocky slopes and cliffs or along vegetated gullies. Luc From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Fri May 2 15:51:32 2008 Message-Id: <019301c8ac8d$ab39d780$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: TRILLIUM Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 20:49:43 +0100 In his post, # 10, Jim Shields mentions a friend studying possible relationships amongst Trillium, in particular the, or any, possible "relationship within or between the yellow Trillium luteum and the red-brown Trillium cuneatum along with plants of the latter within populations of the former, posing the question, are they mutants or hybrids". I would suggest neither. If Jim cares to put his friend in touch I think, initially we may have a three way exchange before I stick my head above the parapet, as I may have a possible suggestion based on a similar analogue I am researching now within the genus Lilium. Early days at the moment but I am extremely intrigued by this situation as it seems to confirm a hypothesis which I am investigating, no more than an hypothesis quite yet and MIGHT? also have an implication for the relative relationships between Liliaceae and Trilliaceae?? Iain From jshields@indy.net Fri May 2 16:24:00 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080502160909.027e9478@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: TRILLIUM Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 16:23:22 -0400 Iain, Now that sounds quite intriguing. It also sounds like it might get a bit technical, so perhaps we'll have to continue the discussion off list. The Trillium are interesting, among other reasons, because they seem to interbreed promiscuously wherever their rangers intersect. How real are any of the Trillium species? Are they any older than 10,000-20,000 years, about when the last glaciation ended? The previous interglacial period reached its warmest point at 126,000 years ago. The last glacial age lasted from about 120,000 years ago up until about 12,000 years ago. The peak of ice formation was probably about 20,000 years ago. The ice only reached down to about where I live -- central Indiana. The unglaciated parts of North America may nevertheless have been cold, barren, and relatively dry. Where were all the Trillium species during that ca. 100,000 years of glaciers? I suspect that they were in today's coastal plains of Georgia, Florida, Alabama, and Mississippi; and the coastal plain species were out on the dry continental shelf areas now under up to 200 feet of sea water in the Gulf of Mexico. They may have undergone new speciation processes in the course of surviving the long glacial age far from where they live today. They may be undergoing new speciation at the present, as they encounter each other anew. As I said, we should probably continue off-line. Jim Shields in currently unglaciated central Indiana, but where 20,000 years ago there would have been a mile of ice over my head. At 08:49 PM 5/2/2008 +0100, you wrote: >In his post, # 10, Jim Shields mentions a friend studying possible >relationships amongst Trillium, in particular the, or any, possible >"relationship within or between the yellow Trillium luteum and the >red-brown Trillium cuneatum along with plants of the latter within >populations of the former, posing the question, are they mutants or >hybrids". I would suggest neither. > >If Jim cares to put his friend in touch I think, initially we may have a >three way exchange before I stick my head above the parapet, as I may have >a possible suggestion based on a similar analogue I am researching now >within the genus Lilium. Early days at the moment but I am extremely >intrigued by this situation as it seems to confirm a hypothesis which I am >investigating, no more than an hypothesis quite yet and MIGHT? also have >an implication for the relative relationships between Liliaceae and >Trilliaceae?? > >Iain >_______________________________________________ ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Fri May 2 21:40:02 2008 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Zantedeschia albomaculata Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 21:39:54 -0400 A house I rented in southwestern Michigan (USDA zone 6) had a clump of Z. albomaculata by its east entrance. It wintered and bloomed reliably. Russell At 02:17 PM 5/2/2008, you wrote: > >Jim Shields writes of keeping Zantedeschia albomaculata in the greenhouse > >... Have you tried them outdoors? Has > >anyone else on the list experimented outdoors with collections known to be > >from high altitudes? Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com From eagle85@flash.net Fri May 2 22:18:27 2008 Message-Id: <3DFED858-0A36-451E-A852-F4E72880ED94@flash.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Zantedeschia albomaculata Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 19:18:31 -0700 "A house I rented in southwestern Michigan (USDA zone 6) had a clump of Z. albomaculata by its east entrance. It wintered and bloomed reliably. Russell At 02:17 PM 5/2/2008, you wrote: >> Jim Shields writes of keeping Zantedeschia albomaculata in the >> greenhouse >> ... Have you tried them outdoors? Has >> anyone else on the list experimented outdoors with collections >> known to be >> from high altitudes?A house I rented in southwestern Michigan (USDA >> zone 6) had a clump > of Z. albomaculata by its east entrance. It wintered and bloomed > reliably. > > Russell" It grows exceptionally well outdoors, all year long here in So. Calif. Doug From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat May 3 03:32:33 2008 Message-Id: <5067243.325671209799951614.JavaMail.www@wwinf1526> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Wiki Additions - Gladiolus, Drimia, Rod and Rachel Saunders, KwaZulu-Natal, Rauhia Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 09:32:31 +0200 (CEST) > Message du 02/05/08 18:06 > De : "Mary Sue Ittner" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Wiki Additions - Gladiolus, Drimia, Rod and Rachel Saunders, KwaZulu-Natal, Rauhia > > Dear Mary Sue, Thank-you for these wonderful photos.I particularly like the South african species of galadiolus,such amazing colours and shapes.I really want to try more. Kind regards, Mark > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From LucGBulot@aol.com Sat May 3 05:44:36 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7B196CE61EF8-F20-1FAC@WEBMAIL-MB02.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Natal Drakensberg Gladiolus Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 05:44:33 -0400 Hi all, Following Mark request about Gladiolus that "might do it"... Here is the list of the species native from the Natal Drakensberg: Gladiolus flanaganii (2300 to 3500m) - hanging from crevices of wet basalt cliffs. Gladiolus saundersii (2400 to 3000m) - stony places. Gladiolus dalenii (up to 2500m) - grassland and scrub. Gladiolus symonsii (1900 to 3200m) - grass slopes and cliffs. Gladiolus papilio ( up to 2400m) - marshy grounds. Gladiolus microcarpus (1800 to 2700m) - hanging on wet cliffs, wedged in the rock. Gladiolus longicolis (up to 2900m) - stony grasslands. Gladiolus pugioformis (1450 - 1980m) - moist grasslands. Gladiolus loteniensis (1800m - southern Berg only) - grasslands around rocks at streamside. Gladiolus ecklonii (up to 2500m) - grasslands. Gladiolus crassifolius (up to 1950m) - grasslands. Gladiolus sericeo-villosus (up to 1750m) - grasslands. Gladiolus woodii (up to 1990m) - rocky grasslands. Gladiolus parvulus (up to 2400m) - short rocky grasslands, often in colonies. Other Iridaceae in the same area includes Romulea (3 species), Moraea (15 species), Dietes (1 species), Homeria (1 species), Aristea (5 species), Schizostylis (1 species), Hesperantha (14 species), Dierama (8 species), Crocosmia (3 species), Tritonia (2 species) and Watsonia (5 species).... I will post more about those in forthcomming mails... Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Sat May 3 06:08:31 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7B1CC344BDE5-F20-1FE5@WEBMAIL-MB02.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Moraea from the Natal Drakensberg Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 06:08:26 -0400 Another of my favourite genus... even so not yet tried in the garden: Moraea alticola (2400 to 2900m) - mashy grasslands and stream gullies. Moraea huttonii (up to 2400m) - streamsides, in the water, often among rocks. Moraea spathulata (up to 2600m) - moist grasslands. Moraea trifida (up to 2400m) - grasslands. Moraea carnea (1800 to 2700m) - damp grass slopes and along streams. Moraea unibracteata (up to 1900m) - moist grasslands. Moraea albicuspa (1800 to 2525m) - damp grasslands under cliffs, around rock sheets or on rocky slopes. Moraea brevistyla (up to 2400m) - grasslands. Moarea modesta (1525 to 3200m) - grasslands. Moraea dracomontana (2100 to 3000m) - grassland near streams. Moraea alpina (2680 to 3200m) - shallow soil over rock, dry gravelly patches, or turf. Moraea stricta (up to 2400m) - grasslands. Moraea inclinata (1525 to 2400m) - grasslands. Moraea elliotii (up to 1525m) - moist grasslands. Moraea ardesciana (1800 to 2350m) - grasslands near streams. Among the yellow flower species, M. alticola, M. huttonii and M. spathulata form large clumps. All other species grow singly. Luc From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat May 3 18:40:45 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080503040805.016dd8d8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Carefree bulbs Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 04:20:21 -0700 I live in the Pacific Northwest, but at 1600 feet elevation near Mount Hood, with well-drained mineral soil and about 45 inches of rain per year, usually none of it in the summer. Only part of my garden is irrigated during the dry season. Usual winter lows in the mid-teens F. Here are the bulbs that have naturalized in the garden to the extent of self-sowing or appearing to be so well settled that, should I abandon the garden, they would survive until smothered by native vegetation: Crocus tommasinianus, C. speciosus, C. vernus ssp. vernus and ssp. albiflorus, C. pulchellus (!), C. kotschyanus, C. ochroleucus (!!) Dichelostemma ida-maia Triteleia peduncularis, T. laxa Colchicum: all the larger hybrids, and a few small ones, notably C. procurrens Sternbergia lutea Puschkinia scilloides Chionodoxa luciliae (blue and white forms), C. siehei, C. sardensis Hyacinthoides non-scripta Asphodelus albus Paradisea lusitanica Anthericum liliago Anemone nemorosa, A. blanda, A. ranunculoides Iris reticulata Narcissus, all the hardy hybrids and, in the rock garden, N. rupicola, N. calcicola, N. triandrus Camassia quamash, C. leichtlinii, C. cusickii Cyclamen hederifolium, C. coum, C. repandum, C. pseudibericum Nectaroscordum siculum Allium membranaceum, A. unifolium, A. moly, A. neapolitanum Notholirion thomsonianum Cardiocrinum giganteum Veratrum californicum, Disporum smithii, Trillium ovatum, Dicentra formosa, Smilacina (Maianthemum) racemosum, S. stellata, and Maianthemum dilatatum are native to the site. Convallaria majalis Galanthus nivalis, G. plicatus, G. 'Atkinsii', G. fosteri In addition, many of the species Paeonia that are well established have self-sown a little, even P. lutea with its huge seeds, which must be moved around by squirrels. Jane McGary From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Sat May 3 08:31:17 2008 Message-Id: <2822.92959.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Trillium Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 05:31:16 -0700 (PDT) --- "J.E. Shields" wrote: > > We did not see T. undulatum, which has not been > found inside the park so > far, nor T. catesbaei, nor T. sulcatum. Still, I > don't think there are many > places where you can spend one weekend, stay within > a radius of about 20 > miles, and see 6 species of Trillium in bloom. Surely you meant pusillum not yet being found in the park. I led wildflower walks in the park over the weekend in the park totaling about 24 hours of hiking and saw T.undulatum in several places. As for catesbaei you need to know its habitat which is not like the others. I tends to the dry Rhododenron and Kalmia woods on slopes. I saw a lot of it also. Now sulcatum probably never will be found in the park, but I have found T.erectum in T.sulcatum territory on the east slope of the Cumberland Plateau. As for hybrids between cuneatum and luteum, areas north of Knoxville are better places to see this. The ranges overlap here and you get some that are obvious hybrids, which would mean you have to have to differing species to get intermediates. I know your friend and he sees the two as the same species. If he would take a yellow cuneatum from a colony of the normal dark cuneatum and place it next to plant of luteum you would, in my opinion, have to be blind not to see the differences. All the best, Aaron Floden ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From jshields@indy.net Sat May 3 08:35:29 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080503083307.027edcf8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Zantedeschia albomaculata Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 08:35:23 -0400 Russell was probably in the Lake Michigan "banana belt." I guess I'm going to have to try Z. albomaculata outdoors here in central Indiana (USDA zone 5) to see for myself. Jim Shields At 09:39 PM 5/2/2008 -0400, you wrote: >A house I rented in southwestern Michigan (USDA zone 6) had a clump >of Z. albomaculata by its east entrance. It wintered and bloomed reliably. > >Russell ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From JmsJon664@aol.com Sat May 3 10:25:38 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7B40A8AB0739-3D8-42D8@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Dependable garden bulbs Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 10:25:23 -0400 I'm Jim Jones, a new respondent living in the Boston, MA area.  Winter temperatures can reach -12oF, but -4o is more typical.  Last winter never went below 2o, with abundant snow cover, and the garden has never been better. My geophytes include most of the standard ones for this area: Eranthis, Galanthus, Crocus (mostly tommasinianus),Colchicum, Erythronium, etc.  Erythroniums are E. dens-canis, nicely seeding about, E. americanum as something of a weed, E. 'Pagoda', teaming up right now with Fritillaria pallidiflora, and E. umbillicatum, ever so tentatively though I've had for quite a few years. Other frits are F. camtschatcensis in a moist spot, and F. acmopetala, which really has a mind of its own, finally deigning to flourish in one particular spot.  I use a systemic insecticide to control lily beetle on frits and lilies. My most interesting Lily is L. formosanum, which started out as v. pricei, a dwarf, until one year it surged to full size though fortunately remaining just as hardy. For my year of living dangerously I tried a number of Ornithogalums.  I was not burnt!  In fact some of them are quite worthwhile, the best being O. collinum (O. tenuiflorum), a low-growing plant with white flowers in April that mixes well with Corydalis solida.  Also low, white, and April-blooming is O. lanceolatum, but the flowers are too small to make an impact unless you know where to look.  I noted with deep interest the article in the AGS Bulletin that said lanceolatum likes some moisture in the soil, a far cry from the rock garden setting where I've been trying it.  O. pyrenaicum breaks the mold, being a tall, tan-flowered June bloomer.  Tan!  Indeed, it's easy to overlook but pleasantly weird when you spot it.  On the other hand, I loathe O. nutans. I have an assortment of the standard size Narcissus hybrids, N. 'Sundisc' being particularly noteworthy.  I'm more interested though in the smaller ones: in descending order, N. 'Wee Bee', abundant yellow trumpets in early April, very vigorous, very appealing; N. asturiensis, a 5 inch version of the above, not really vigorous here; and my all-time favorite, the 4 inch N. rupicola, bearing up-facing yellow cups in late April/early May.  It clumps up and self-sows, but never enough. I have a few Alliums: A. thunbergii, with at last report a white one from seed; lots of A. flavum, though ssp. tauricum is slow to get going; A. zebdanense with white flowers right now; A. tuberosum, which I love for the bees but have to keep on top of; too much A. cernuum; A. 'Constellation' and its parent A. nutans.  I have a variegated form of the last but it's proving quite fickle, so  much so that I haven't been able to pin down a plant to give to Mark McDonough.  The current flat of promising-looking seedlings may change that. Noteworthy Trilliums are the super-cute T. pusillum and, to my surprise, a T. chloropetalum v. giganteum (10 years from seed to bloom) that is thriving in this alien climate. Cyclamen has been really touch and go, except for a single C. coum, probably ssp caucasicum, that has shrugged off the worst winters in the open garden and merrily blooms through the snow.  C. hederifolium survives where it can hug the south-facing foundation, along with Oxalis rubra and Bletilla striata. Another orchid is Dactylorhiza praetermissa, that came through this last winter.  It's being grown in an artificially moistened bed. And back to Corydalis solida.  I've had the purplish form for many years, and it dearly loves it here, even invading the lawn (fine by me).  More recently I've gotten the Penga strain, fabulous, and somehow, in no time at all, its influence is showing up in the far reaches of the garden as one brightly colored seedling after another shows up.  A cloud on the horizon: something snipped off the flowers in the densest stand this spring.  A silver lining: I saw one of my cats munching on a bunny yesterday. Odds and ends: Crocosmia (as Curtonus) paniculata that has proven hardy where the more common species and hybrids weren't.  It took me a while though to realize it prefers a moistish soil.  And as long as we're in South Africa: Agapanthus campanulatus.  This is one of the deciduous ones; it has been outside for two years (and yes, shoots are appearing even as I write) and bloomed last July.  Seed was set, germinated, and is growing on, giving strong hope for its future. Jim Jones   From jshields@indy.net Sat May 3 14:51:38 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080503144545.027eb6b8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Trillium Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 14:50:20 -0400 I checked with my friend Richard, and Aaron is quite right -- it was not undulatum that was not found in the park. My mistake. What Richard probably told me was that there were none close enough to the road for the two of us -- two old men, one with really bad knees -- to get to, given where we were at the time. It was getting late in the day, and my long suffering wife was back at our motel, waiting for me to come back and take her to supper! Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 05:31 AM 5/3/2008 -0700, Aaron wrote: >--- "J.E. Shields" wrote: > > > > > We did not see T. undulatum, which has not been > > found inside the park so > > far, nor T. catesbaei, nor T. sulcatum. Still, I > > don't think there are many > > places where you can spend one weekend, stay within > > a radius of about 20 > > miles, and see 6 species of Trillium in bloom. >........ ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun May 4 00:19:41 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Was: Sowing seed i.. now Junos Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 23:13:38 -0500 >Juno iris have been fabulous, easy to grow in raised sand beds. The >number of flowers they put forth is remarkable, such fun "corn >plants" that require little or no attention. >About 6-7 Juno iris varieties blooming today, 05-01-2008. >http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_junos_in_bloom_2008a.jpg > >The very floriferous Iris vicaria > > >Iris x 'Warlsind' has very fragrant flowers, and is a slower grower >than the other species. >http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_Warlsind_2008a.jpg >http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_Warlsind_2008b.jpg Dear Mark, Glad to see another praise of Junos and their 'show' ability. They can make quite an impact in masses like these. Your ultra vigorous I . vicaria matches my I. willmottiana. We ought to trade a few of these 'weeds'. And if you like 'Warlsind', you must get 'Sindpers', the reverse cross. I got mine from Jane McGary and it is a knock out. Best Jim W. where the aril-bred irises are just starting their dazzle. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Sun May 4 13:26:29 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Was: Sowing seed i.. now Junos Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 11:20:38 -0600 Good luck with your knee Jane. I can't find how hardy Junos are? I came across a guy in Toronto with them, but that's a zone 5 or 6 there. Anyone know? Linda Foulis Alberta, Canada zone 3 From ksayce@willapabay.org Sun May 4 14:03:59 2008 Message-Id: <43CB3372-3AB6-4AD2-BDD5-68D3A22255F9@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: greetings from the Columbia coast Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 11:03:54 -0700 I live at sealevel on Willapa Bay, 15 miles north of the Columbia River and a mile from the Pacific Ocean in SW Washington, where I garden on silty sand. This area has wet mild winters and rather dry summers, zone 8; though during strong El Nino-Southern Oscillation events, which are warmer, it's almost a zone 10. I'm a botanist and a confirmed iris-lover, especially Pacific Coast native species and hybrids. Lilies, and other geophytes are also of great interest to me. Many species grow well here, slugs and deer aside, so I tend to focus on those that deer leave alone (they grazed my first plantings of juno iris to the ground a few years ago). In a few weeks I'll have photos of a very yellow iris that I purchased some years ago as Iris innominata, but which is clearly too large to be that species. I hope someone amongst you will be able to help me identify it. Kathleen From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Sun May 4 14:24:19 2008 Message-Id: <021601c8ae14$18d6d310$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: CAREFREE BULBS Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 19:24:30 +0100 Jane that is quite some list. Could you tell us what your natural pH is, roughly please as I appreciate it might vary across the garden, and have you modified it to achieve what you have, lastly if modified what with. Apart from Cardiocrinum, no Lilies; is that planned or they prefer not to 'do' carefree? Many thanks, Iain. From john@johnlonsdale.net Sun May 4 14:57:48 2008 Message-Id: <012001c8ae18$b23b54a0$0202fea9@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Was: Sowing seed is.. now Junos Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 14:57:26 -0400 Jane wrote - "I did think Almond's talk overemphasized the difficulty of growing these plants; someone else on this forum commented that perhaps they are more difficult outdoors in England, and I wonder if it's latitude that causes the problem -- less winter sunlight. It often seems that the bulbs shown in AGS journal photos are more elongated in growth than they would be here in Oregon, even though sunlight is not a common occurrence for us in winter" Jane - it is the year-round wetness, or threat of it, that makes many of these geophytes difficult outdoors in England, even in well drained beds. Cool damp weather is not what they need. Many of the Junos I would grow outside here are grown in pots and they definitely etiolate a lot under glass, even with good ventilation. The etiolation gets worse the further north you go. Many are grown primarily for showing - and that requires them to be portable, and there is also a definite tendency to overstate difficulty of culture, especially among the show fraternity. All the best, John John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b . From totototo@telus.net Mon May 5 00:40:32 2008 Message-Id: <20080505044030.C07AL5C153@priv-edmwaa04.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Undependable Garden Bulbs Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 21:40:56 -0700 Interesting to read of the dependables, but what about the undependables, those bulbs that you would expect to be good performers but turn out to be duds? Plant performance is critically dependant on the details of the environment, of course: soil, pH, drainage, altitude, latitude, aspect, climate, geography, precipitation & its distribution throughout the year etc. As a result, plants considered easy in some places are quite difficult in others. In my own garden, the following have been surprisingly bad performers: 1. Leucojum vernum. I've planted hundreds of bulbs of this over the years, in any number of different locations, and only in one small location do they survive and grow. When I say small, I mean an area that may be no more than a few feet each way. No, this isn't because the bulbs I've planted have been terminally dessicated. I know enough to soak L. vernum bulbs until they are plump and firm before planting, and those planted usually came up just fine the first spring, but then disappeared. It's a mystery: I have no idea what is special about the one and only spot. Perhaps there's simply too much root competition from nearby trees everywhere else I've tried them. In Janis Ruksans book, there's a photo of L. vernum growing wild somewhere in eastern Europe; the site is a dead flat meadow with nary a tree in sight. 2. Tricyrtis. They have never survived more than two seasons. Probably due to the distaste of Japanese plants for a dry-summer, wet- winter climate plus the fact that I live in a former marsh which gets soaking wet, and stays that way, once the winter rains have set in in earnest. 3. The double form of Galanthus nivalis. It hates me. 4. Most daffodils. The narcissus fly cleans these out in a hurry, some types much faster than others, though some cultivars survive and flower well year after year. The beautiful triandrus hybrids such as Libery Bells last only one season and then they're gone, not even grassy leaves to mark the site of their demise. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From kjblack@pacbell.net Mon May 5 00:54:00 2008 Message-Id: <453452.16959.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: toxicity of Boophone disticha pollen ? Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 21:51:14 -0700 (PDT) I have several times now developed both a headache and sore eyes after attempting to pollinate my Boophone disticha blooms. More recently, pain in the lower right side of my back (liver? or just muscular?) lasting almost a day after spending 10-15 minutes in very close proximity (1-2 feet) while pollinating the individual florets. Today, I decided to wear safety goggles and took breaths away from the flower, holding and exhaling each time I drew near the flower to accomplish my pollination task. Happily, I did not suffer the same ill affects this time around. Has anybody else shared this experience? Does the pollen share some of the same toxic qualities for which the bulb and leaves are known? Ken San Diego USDA Zone 10 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun May 4 13:05:59 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080504220211.016d0320@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Was: Sowing seed i.. now Junos Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 22:07:59 -0700 Jim Waddick wrote, " And if you like 'Warlsind', you must get 'Sindpers', the >reverse cross. I got mine from Jane McGary and it is a knock out." Interestingly, 'Sindpers' is one of the cultivars that Jim Almond, in his talk on Junos at the NARGS/AGCBC Western Winter Study Weekend this year, said could not be grown in the open garden. However, I've had it in the open (admittedly, on a high sand-and-gravel berm) for a couple of years, and it is increasing fast and flowered wonderfully this wet, cold winter. I did think Almond's talk overemphasized the difficulty of growing these plants; someone else on this forum commented that perhaps they are more difficult outdoors in England, and I wonder if it's latitude that causes the problem -- less winter sunlight. It often seems that the bulbs shown in AGS journal photos are more elongated in growth than they would be here in Oregon, even though sunlight is not a common occurrence for us in winter. Today it is beautifully sunny, but I don't know if I'll make it out to the bulb frames as I'm on crutches for a few days (sprained knee ... again). Not a good condition when you live in a 3-level house and a terraced garden. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dells@voicenet.com Mon May 5 06:50:05 2008 Message-Id: <20080505105004.BF1B74C015@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Judy Glattstein's article in "The Bulb Garden" Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 06:49:40 -0400 Dear Judy, I enjoyed reading your article in the recent newsletter. I have seen potted "florist's cyclamen" on desks and counters survive and bloom for several years with, apparently, almost no care. But which of us could resist a plant that goes on and on and still flowers? I am going to try again with C. persicum. What cyclamen can you grow in the ground in this warm end of Zone 6? The only ones that I've tried in the ground were ones that I grew from seed: C. coum and C. hederifolium. They both lived long enough to bloom, and then they never appeared again, sort of a biennial with arrested development and bad manners. Best, Dell From LucGBulot@aol.com Mon May 5 06:52:36 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7CB5409388FC-BD8-3CBC@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Tulipa vvedenskyi hybrids Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 06:52:31 -0400 Hi all, Does anyone has a clue of which Tulip hybrids may involve Tulipa vvedenskyi as one of the parents ? A good example of the plant I am wondering about is to be seen at: www.paghat.com/tulipavvedenskyi.html Thanks for any imput, Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Mon May 5 07:21:09 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7CB939B36305-BD8-3DDA@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Kniphofia PhD online Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 07:20:57 -0400 Hi all, For those interested in Kniphofia,?a PhD Thesis presented at Rhodes University (RSA) on the Evolution and biogeography of Kniphofia is to be found at the following url: eprints.ru.ac.za/969/01/Ramdhani-PhD.pdf This work complements the already old, but still usefull?monograph of the RSA species of the genus by L. E. Codd (1968, Bothalia, vol. 9, part 3-4). An extensive and up-dated literature list of the genus is included. Luc From jegrace@rose.net Mon May 5 07:34:12 2008 Message-Id: <1209987249_132043@mail.rose.net> From: "jegrace" Subject: Undependable Garden Bulbs Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:32:45 -0400 I cannot even begin to tell you how much I appreciated your post! Especially the hateful attitude from the Galanthus. I truly believe that plants can develop attitudes and are occasionally spiteful. My list? Here goes: I absolutely love Tricyrtis, they grow beautifully a few hours from my home but I have never had one thrive or bloom I blush to admit that Crocosmia 'Lucifer' has eluded my efforts- supposedly bulletproof here. Any other Crocosmia I have tried has delighted me but 'Lucifer' stubbornly refuses to try. Leucojum 'Gravetye Giant', the super-performer in other gardens, gives a weak, insipid performance for me. Might be the trees, I shall try an open area next year. And....the bitter pill.....my husband's favorite spring flower is Lily of the Valley.....Convallaria...hearty to invasive everywhere in the USA.....I cannot bear to speak of it. I'm not sure if I should have used plant markers or tombstones over the years. Erin Grace Thomasville, Georgia, USA USDA hardiness zone 8b, AHS heat zone 9 --- From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon May 5 07:38:39 2008 Message-Id: <000001c8aea4$e339e170$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Some Allium events Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:40:57 -0400 The big floral ball Allium are beginning to bloom in the garden now. This term “floral ball” I picked up from a 1960s catalog from Delkins Bulbs, my source for some of my first acquisitions in this group. I still have these and to this day am unsure what to call them. They were sent under the name Allium rosenbachianum. They are perhaps Allium stipitatum. Two other Allium events have provided lots of excitement during the last few days. For one, Allium triquitrum is blooming here for the first time. Why it took me so long to try this species I can’t explain, but it’s good to have it now. The other Allium excitement was major. I had been invited to judge a rock garden in the Pittsburg, PA area yesterday. That’s a four hour + drive from home. The plants on exhibit included a few which made the drive worthwhile, but in my view one stood out above the rest: a pan of dozens of blooming Allium perdulce. The fragrance was wonderful. Mark’s glowing account of this species on the wiki is completely justified. On the horizon: some late planted bulbs received under the names Allium neapolitanum and Allium cowanii have produced plants with distinct foliage. So expect a continuation of last year’s discussion of the neapolitanum-cownaii controversy. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where the oven birds are back. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun May 4 20:47:50 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080505054732.0171ed30@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: CAREFREE BULBS Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 05:49:26 -0700 Iain asked, Could you tell us what your natural pH is, roughly please as I appreciate it might vary across the garden, >and have you modified it to achieve what you have, lastly if modified what >with. > >Apart from Cardiocrinum, no Lilies; is that planned or they prefer not to >'do' carefree? The pH of the soil here is between 5.5 and 6 in most places. I don't add lime to it except occasionally in the vegetable garden. I think if you fertilize plants adequately, even "lime-lovers" are happy in slightly acidic soils. I do grow lilies but would not consider them permanent because rabbits and deer are so likely toi eat the tops, and voles and gophers likely to eat the bulbs. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Mon May 5 09:22:55 2008 Message-Id: <00cb01c8aeb2$dbd4b0a0$bf246f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: toxicity of Boophone disticha pollen ? Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 06:20:47 -0700 Haven't had a problem. I have been rubbing my hand over one umbel, collecting the pollen on my bare palm, then rubbing it over the other one. Diana Telos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:51 PM Subject: [pbs] toxicity of Boophone disticha pollen ? >I have several times now developed both a headache and sore eyes after >attempting to pollinate my Boophone disticha blooms. More recently, pain >in the lower right side of my back (liver? or just muscular?) lasting >almost a day after spending 10-15 minutes in very close proximity (1-2 >feet) while pollinating the individual florets. Today, I decided to wear >safety goggles and took breaths away from the flower, holding and exhaling >each time I drew near the flower to accomplish my pollination task. >Happily, I did not suffer the same ill affects this time around. Has >anybody else shared this experience? Does the pollen share some of the >same toxic qualities for which the bulb and leaves are known? > > Ken > San Diego > USDA Zone 10 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pcamusa@hotmail.com Mon May 5 10:14:31 2008 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: toxicity of Boophone disticha pollen ? Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:14:24 -0400 > I have several times now developed both a headache and sore eyes after attempting to pollinate my Boophone disticha blooms. Have you considered that your symptoms might be an allergy? I experience a pretty remarkable allergic reaction out of season that I finally associated with the blooms of my Haemanthus alba. It is now banished from the house to a remote part of the yard when in bud. Regards, Phil Southeast Michigan where the early daffodils are gone, but we had a hard freeze last week. _________________________________________________________________ Make Windows Vista more reliable and secure with Windows Vista Service Pack 1. http://www.windowsvista.com/SP1?WT.mc_id=hotmailvistasp1banner From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon May 5 12:01:24 2008 Message-Id: <000101c8aec9$9a733480$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Some Allium events Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 12:03:46 -0400 OK, it's been four hours since I made that post. Doesn't anyone out there want to tell me it's Allium triquetrum, not A. triquitrum? Jim McKenney From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Mon May 5 12:58:47 2008 Message-Id: <847862.53274.qm@web86304.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: BRIAN WHYER Subject: Some Allium events Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:58:35 +0100 (BST) Hi Jim Triquitrum might be more appropriate; i.e. quit quit quit. Pretty but very invasive here in the UK. I offered Judy Glattstein a bucket full once, and only half in jest. I still have some in a pot, but pull the heads off to stop seeding. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, ~~zone 8 Jim McKenney wrote: OK, it's been four hours since I made that post. Doesn't anyone out there want to tell me it's Allium triquetrum, not A. triquitrum? Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon May 5 13:32:38 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Carefree or Undependable Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 12:32:08 -0500 Dear Friends, I love these comparisons. When Jane gave her list of easy bulbs it included almost none that I can even coax into growing and some that survive, but just hang on (or should I say suffer). Then Jim Jones gave a mix and match of things from the other coast that either do well or hang on. I think all these comparisons do many things to expand our understanding. Not only is one man's (or woman's) weed and another's TLC treasure, but it also points out the fruitless efforts to identify an invasive species across the US let alone a smaller region. And some some shock from Erin about her inability to make Convallaria and Leucojum survive among others. Add to this that I know some bulbs do fine a few miles from my home, but I cannot do anything to make them vaguely happy here. My undependable bulbs include: Fritillaria imperialis . Next time I feel the urge to try a bulb, I'll just plant a $10 bill in the ground and get the same return. Martagon lilies - forget them. Never had a bloom although most lilies do just fine and I wouldn't be without them. West coast stuff - a long list of losses here from Brodiea (sp?) to Dichelostoma to Tritelia and Fritillaria. Trillium grandiflorum. A single plant survives as T. "mini-florum". I do grow maybe 10 + others (all eastern species) and never tried the western species (see above on Western bulbs). But there are confusing specifics from the other contributors here. Leucojum aestivum is easy here (even 'Gravetye Giant' now in full bloom), Narcissus calicola I've never tried, but assumed it would not be hardy enough..Hmmm. and many more I won't dwell on. Is this location, location or real cultivation differences, Zonal denials? what? Personally I think it emphasizes the NEED to try an old standby again and again if necessary to find the right place. Of course my fingers remained cross that there is no sign of Narcissus fly, but we do have the iris borer (Give one, take another). So I'll continue to share experiences and try to learn by others success AND failures, but always with a lingering doubt until I have grown or killed it here. A friend in S. Carolina just sent me a few things to try. I know some are destined for the cool greenhouse, but some will take their chance in the globally warming garden with crosses fingers. Maybe this is THE YEAR they'll survive and get established. Many thanks for all who have contributed experiences pro and con and I can hardly wait for more. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From maxwithers@gmail.com Mon May 5 13:46:01 2008 Message-Id: <481F47CF.1090505@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Some Allium events Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 10:45:51 -0700 Last week I also had a delightful Allium event, which consisted of eating a large amount of Allium tricoccum (wild leek or ramps). This species is native to eastern N. America and is truly delicious. I rarely see it in stores here, and when I do, it is very expensive. Has anyone grown it in a mediterranean climate? A. triquetrum on the other hand is also weedy in the bay area, even holding its own in abandoned lots overrun with Oxalis pes-caprae. Max Withers Oakland CA > Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:58:35 +0100 (BST) > From: BRIAN WHYER > Subject: Re: [pbs] Some Allium events > > Hi Jim > > Triquitrum might be more appropriate; i.e. quit quit quit. Pretty but very invasive here in the UK. I offered Judy Glattstein a bucket full once, and only half in jest. I still have some in a pot, but pull the heads off to stop seeding. > > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, ~~zone 8 > > Jim McKenney wrote: > OK, it's been four hours since I made that post. Doesn't anyone out there > want to tell me it's Allium triquetrum, not A. triquitrum? > > Jim McKenney > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon May 5 14:05:15 2008 Message-Id: <000a01c8aeda$e7cd3cb0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Some Allium events Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:07:37 -0400 Max Withers mentioned that he rarely sees ramps in grocery stores in Oakland, CA. Well, Max, lucky you. I've never seen them in grocery stores in this area, although each year articles about ramp festivals or ramp recipes appear in the local press. It grows in cool mountain forests in nearby West Virginia, and a few weeks ago I saw it (presumably introduced) growing in a northern Virginia park opposite Washington, D.C. well outside of its otherwise natural range. From a few yards away the foliage of the plants suggests an extremely robust Erythronium. I would say it has decorative value, although the foliage does not persist long in good condition. Evidently the local deer don't eat it - maybe it's just as well because ramp flavored venison might be really good. So if you don't like the look of it, you can dig it up and eat it. It's a cool plant, like so many other elements of our native flora virtually unknown in gardens. We had a discussion on this forum in the past about this species and what I presume is its European cognate, A. ursinum: both are called bear onions (or the equivalent in various languages; for instance, in German Allium ursinum is Bärenlauch). I’m ashamed to say that bear can still be legally hunted here in Maryland, and no doubt there have been bear and ramp roasts somewhere in the state recently. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Romulea ligustica and Triteleia lemmoniae are blooming. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon May 5 15:38:49 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Undependable Garden Bulbs Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 12:38:29 -0700 Rodger wrote: > surprisingly bad performers: > > 1. Leucojum vernum. I've planted hundreds - In Janis Ruksans book, > there's > a photo of L. vernum growing wild somewhere in eastern Europe; the > site is a dead flat meadow with nary a tree in sight. I never had any success with them either. I realized why when I saw them in flower in the Czech Republic in the kind of situation I would expect to see the bright yellow spathes of our skunk cabbage. Riparian deciduous woodland. The valley had pools of water from melting snow and the adjacent river. The Leucojum didn't require so much water, though, as I saw clumps of the yellow-marked ones flowering in a nearby farmyard - the farmers were enthusiastic gardeners and showed us the stack of photo albums filled with pictures of their flowers. They must have watered them well. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon May 5 16:01:36 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: over-enthusiastic bulbs Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:01:15 -0700 We have lists of bulbs that do well with no fussing, bulbs that won't do well even if you do fuss a bit, and now, how about bulbs that over- extend themselves? Sometimes these are ones that are difficult to get started, like lily- of-the-valley (Convallaria majalis) and Peruvian lily (Alstroemeria aurantiaca). Once they decide to grow, however, they're off! Some produce copious seed and offsets, like Spanish bluebells (currently Hyacinthoides hispanica, I think) and various Muscari. I don't think any bulbs invade natural areas on their own, though Alstroemeria can explode their seedpods and shoot their seeds a short distance. The more usual method of invasion is by tidy gardeners who have been observed trundling wheelbarrow loads of them into the woods. Once there, they spread. So - what bulbs would you warn against in your area? Diane Whitehead From gentian21@comcast.net Mon May 5 17:01:15 2008 Message-Id: <002001c8aef3$1dfc7770$6601a8c0@blackdell> From: "gentian21" Subject: over-enthusiastic bulbs Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 16:00:51 -0500 Star of Bethlehem has to be the worst. I got "free" bulbs with a bulb order 50 years ago and didn't like it at all so tried to get rid of. I still have some. Every time I see a bloom in the garden I stop what I am doing and pull bloom off. I know of a garden (former, LOL) that people think it is a lawn even though there is no grass at all. Squill is one that takes over before you can even decide if you want it. My favorite weedy bulb is Corydalis solida. It can have the whole neighborhood as far as I am concerned. If only Cyclamen would do that for me. The only other one that I consider a weed is Pinellia. I really don't consider anything a weed unless you can't remove them or they spread to the neighbors yard. So something like Corydalis lutea is easy to pull to keep the ones where you want them. Frank Cooper central Illinois, zone 5b ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Whitehead" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: [pbs] over-enthusiastic bulbs > We have lists of bulbs that do well with no fussing, bulbs that won't > do well even if you do fuss a bit, and now, how about bulbs that over- > extend themselves? > > Sometimes these are ones that are difficult to get started, like lily- > of-the-valley (Convallaria majalis) and Peruvian lily (Alstroemeria > aurantiaca). Once they decide to grow, however, they're off! > > Some produce copious seed and offsets, like Spanish bluebells > (currently Hyacinthoides hispanica, I think) and various Muscari. > > I don't think any bulbs invade natural areas on their own, though > Alstroemeria can explode their seedpods and shoot their seeds a short > distance. The more usual method of invasion is by tidy gardeners who > have been observed trundling wheelbarrow loads of them into the > woods. Once there, they spread. > > So - what bulbs would you warn against in your area? > > Diane Whitehead > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From shayek.kent@gmail.com Mon May 5 17:19:57 2008 Message-Id: From: shayek.kent@gmail.com Subject: over-enthusiastic bulbs Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:19:31 -0700 **I was just going to ask if anyone had Alstroemeria seed itself. I've grown it for years and this year is a first. but the Hellebore seeded this year, too, so the temps must have been just right at the right time for the right length. Star of Bethlehem doesn't do anything here. nor squill. nor corydalis or Pinellia or Hyacinthoides hispanica. I wish. The bad Allium is all over tho'. In fact I think it's taking over Eureka. susan >Star of Bethlehem has to be the worst. I got "free" bulbs with a bulb order >50 years ago and didn't like it at all so tried to get rid of. I still have >some. Every time I see a bloom in the garden I stop what I am doing and >pull bloom off. I know of a garden (former, LOL) that people think it is a >lawn even though there is no grass at all. Squill is one that takes over >before you can even decide if you want it. My favorite weedy bulb is >Corydalis solida. It can have the whole neighborhood as far as I am >concerned. If only Cyclamen would do that for me. The only other one that I >consider a weed is Pinellia. > > I don't think any bulbs invade natural areas on their own, though >> Alstroemeria can explode their seedpods and shoot their seeds a short > > distance. > > > > So - what bulbs would you warn against in your area? -- Susan Hayek on the North Coast of CA, USA From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon May 5 18:46:04 2008 Message-Id: <481F8E01.3080302@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: toxicity of Boophone disticha pollen ? Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 18:45:21 -0400 I think Phil may be on target regarding the hypersensitivity to Boophone pollen. Pollen contains proteins and as we all know anyone can have a reaction to any protein. The pollen functions as an antigen and triggers our immune system to kick into action. This can be anywhere from a runny nose to muscle aches to anaphlatic shock that you see with people allergic to penicillin. Arnold From Pelarg@aol.com Mon May 5 19:26:32 2008 Message-Id: From: Pelarg@aol.com Subject: over-enthusiastic bulbs Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 19:26:22 EDT Invader bulbs in the nearby park along the Bronx River here in southern Westchester county (NY), just north of the Bronx line, include galanthus and scilla, both of which seem to relish the floodplain soil not far from the "river" (more a creek). A purple annual (biennial?) corydalis grows in one area as well, in woodland like the others. Natives include the Erythronium americanum, Allium tricoccum (blooms after the leaves fade in summer), Dicentra cucullata, skunk cabbage, Sanginaria canadensis, and a few others. I've tried to introduce a few things myself, namely native Podophyllum (extra rhizome divisions I planted in various locations a few weeks ago), Iris hexagona (I think a clump is still hanging on by a lake part of the river), and last fall I planted Asimina triloba seeds in scattered locations from a friends trees in nearby Bronxville. Less pleasant invaders include Ameliopsis, Celastrus, garlic mustard, pachysandra, English ivy, and Norway maple. While I am sure the galanthus and scilla got there from garden refuse, they have apparently spread by seed on their own for years, sometimes forming large colonies. Oh yeah, the biggest threat to all of the woodland low growers, scads of Ranunculus ficaria, now that is one plant that is way out of control in wet soils! At least it seems to avoid the drier slopes where the dutchman's breeches is found. Ernie DeMarie (zone 6/7) where remarkably some Pelargonium alchemilloides are sprouting back from the roots, as is a gazania "Christopher Lloyd". Ditto several cultivars of Salvia greggii, though never the peach colored one. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From djordan68@comcast.net Mon May 5 21:52:31 2008 Message-Id: <80D3A3BF41C542E2BADBC651E8758891@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: (no subject) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:48:24 -0500 I will try once again to see if anyone grows these two species--- I have a couple of questions about some Tigridia's from seed. I read the info and prior TOW posting from the WIKI--and read Howard--but still am curious here. Any with opinions? ;) First, Tigridia chiapensis. I have some very robust 4 month old seedlings; would it be unreasonable to expect bloom in one year from these since it's a small species? The cynic in me wants to hold back from excitement here. Second, T vanhoutti--I know these are tall, 3rd year bloom on this one? Also high altitude Central America usually translates to dry winter for me and semi-shady in the humid inferno of a Houston July-Sept. Am I correct here? I can usually make Mexican, Central, and South American bulb species work out pretty well for me--I sort of use the same guidelines I use in growing Central American mountainous species of Scutellaria's which I have been growing for many years. Am I on the right path? Debbie Houston, TX where we finally got some rain after a month without--very odd for us to have a dry spring From msittner@mcn.org Mon May 5 22:30:50 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080505191236.034e7d58@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tigridia Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 19:30:16 -0700 Dear Debbie, Good for you for asking again when you didn't get a reply. I didn't reply since I don't know the answers. I grew Tigridia chiapensis from seed, keeping it dry in winter and starting it again the next spring and growing it in my greenhouse. It bloomed last May, but has since died. I started the seeds in March 2005 so that was about two years from seed. So I guess that made it a biannual for me. Perhaps it would do better and grow faster in conditions more to its liking. I once had a Tigridia pavonia bloom the first year I started it, but never was able to repeat that feat. That would make me think it possible to get it to bloom in a year. You'll have to tell us. I germinated Tigridia vanhoutii, but it also was not a survivor. The seed was from Rob Hamilton from Tasmania and I see a picture on the wiki from Paul Tyerman from another Australia state with a different climate so perhaps they can answer your question or maybe Dennis from Mexico will know. When I lived in Stockton (central California with less rain and hotter summers) Tigridia pavonia was a carefree plant coming back each year and blooming well. It is not happy at all in coastal northern California and only blooms briefly and in the ground does not return. I can only speculate that it doesn't like our extra winter rainfall or cooler summer temperatures or maybe I didn't water it enough here. In Stockton I had clay soil and it was growing in perennial raised beds that I grew drought tolerant perennials in, but I did water and there were no redwood tree roots sucking up any water I gave the beds. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Mon May 5 22:46:07 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080505193117.0350bb60@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Some Allium events Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 19:45:41 -0700 These discussions on what grows well for some and not so well for others and is a problem for others are very interesting. I'm amazed that Jim McKenney is so enthusiastic about Allium triquetrum. My husband named it Allium pestum which is a better name for it I think. Invasive in Australia, New Zealand, and Northern California. It needs no supplemental water or care where I live (and we get a lot more rainfall than Max.) It grows along side the roads, in waste areas, near abandoned homes. It's amazing how some of these things spread from what may have been just a few people planting them. Alliums are not something that I have had any luck growing in the ground. Allium unifolium limps along and sometimes blooms, but that's it. I've tried a lot of them and they don't bloom or don't come back after the first year. This is true here and was true in Stockton as well. On the other hand I've had luck with a lot of the ones native to California in pots and some others as well. I'm not sure why the lack of success. Mark McDonough has great luck growing them in the ground. Mary Sue From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Mon May 5 23:28:16 2008 Message-Id: <001601c8af29$35861a00$0600000a@mcmasterdae8d5> From: "Rhoda and Cameron McMaster" Subject: Toxicity of Boophone disticha Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 05:28:01 +0200 Hi. While the toxicity of Boophone pollen is being discussed I thought it would be interesting to note that if close enough to the plant it will have similar effects. The well known botanical artist, Dr Auriol Batten recounts how when painting the plant from a fresh flower, she developed a headache, drowsiness and sore eyes. In fact one of its common names in South Africa is "Sore Eye Flower". The bulb is extremely poisonous and was used as an ingredient in the arrow and fish poison concocted by the San and Khoi Hunter-Gatherers in past eras. The remarkable properties of this bulb were highlighted by the discovery by Johan Binneman of a mummified body of a San hunter in the Kouga mountains in 1998. As reported in the organ of the Archaeological Society of SA, "The Digging Stick" Vol.16 No.2 in April 1999, he discovered the body in a cave carefully wrapped in the scales of Boophone disticha bulbs. So toxic were the bulbs scales that the wrapping had kept the 2000 year-old body in a well preserved state, protecting it from insects and flesh eating organisms. The mummy is now housed in the Albany Museum. Cameron McMaster African Bulbs PO Box 26, Napier 7270 Tel/Fax: 028 423 3651 Mobile: 082 774 2075 Email: africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Website: www.africanbulbs.com From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon May 5 23:56:50 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:57:19 -0500 Dear Friends, The Good carefree, easy and dependable landscape impact The Bad can't grow, no matter how often or where I try them The Ugly weeds that come up in every square inch and have to pulled year after year. Thinking anew about the latter, and with the chief suspect ( Ornithogalum umbellatum) in bloom. Gee it looks a lot like Iphieon 'Albert Castillo' only easier and cheaper. Come to think of it, I don't think there is any really weedy bulb here; even the Pinellias are easy to control and I rarely feel like I have to pull them up. Allium triquetrum I've tried a couple of times without any luck. It's in the 'ugly' category above. Alstroemeria aurantiaca... I wish. But speaking of Hellebores (Susan), the x orientalis types self seed very freely, but I just donated a couple hundred to a local shade garden sale. Not a problem. The only thing close is the variegated xPolygonatum odoratum which seems to spread further and further afield each year. Again I donated 50 plus to the shade sale to keep them out of the paths. I have plenty of weeds, but not a bulb among them. ...or should I cross my fingers and say "YET"? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Clayton3120@cablespeed.com Tue May 6 00:07:52 2008 Message-Id: <003601c8af2e$7de0f3b0$0a428f18@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Clayton3120" Subject: over-enthusiastic bulbs Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:05:58 -0700 Amen , friends. Tulipa hissarica has become a horrible nuisance in my garden, as well as Narcissus cantabricus petuniodes,Galanthus nivalis flore plena, Fritillaria edwardii, Iris trojana, and a host of others. Could my compost pile get any bigger? Careful what you sow! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] over-enthusiastic bulbs > Invader bulbs in the nearby park along the Bronx River here in southern > Westchester county (NY), just north of the Bronx line, include galanthus > and > scilla, both of which seem to relish the floodplain soil not far from the > "river" > (more a creek). A purple annual (biennial?) corydalis grows in one area > as > well, in woodland like the others. Natives include the Erythronium > americanum, Allium tricoccum (blooms after the leaves fade in summer), > Dicentra > cucullata, skunk cabbage, Sanginaria canadensis, and a few others. I've > tried to > introduce a few things myself, namely native Podophyllum (extra rhizome > divisions I planted in various locations a few weeks ago), Iris hexagona > (I think a > clump is still hanging on by a lake part of the river), and last fall I > planted Asimina triloba seeds in scattered locations from a friends trees > in > nearby Bronxville. Less pleasant invaders include Ameliopsis, Celastrus, > garlic > mustard, pachysandra, English ivy, and Norway maple. > While I am sure the galanthus and scilla got there from garden refuse, > they > have apparently spread by seed on their own for years, sometimes forming > large > colonies. > Oh yeah, the biggest threat to all of the woodland low growers, scads of > Ranunculus ficaria, now that is one plant that is way out of control in > wet > soils! At least it seems to avoid the drier slopes where the dutchman's > breeches > is found. > Ernie DeMarie (zone 6/7) where remarkably some Pelargonium alchemilloides > are sprouting back from the roots, as is a gazania "Christopher Lloyd". > Ditto > several cultivars of Salvia greggii, though never the peach colored one. > > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on > family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue May 6 00:21:50 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: over-enthusiastic bulbs Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:21:30 -0700 Oh no, notice the lack of an address? I guess Clayton doesn't want a mob arriving with shovels and plastic bags. ;-> Diane On 5-May-08, at 9:05 PM, Clayton3120 wrote: > Amen , friends. > Tulipa hissarica has become a horrible nuisance in my garden, as > well as > Narcissus cantabricus petuniodes,Galanthus nivalis flore plena, > Fritillaria edwardii, Iris trojana, and a host of others. > Could my compost pile get any bigger? > Careful what you sow! From shayek.kent@gmail.com Tue May 6 00:24:37 2008 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:24:26 -0700 The Hellebores seedlings were very exciting for me. I'd like them all over. Same with the Alstoemeria. And I planted tons and tons of Iphieon. And....I put all my seedling Velthemias in the ground under the big Japanese maple in front and they made it through our low 20's; one is blooming. Next year they'll probably drop dead. When we first moved up here, I ordered some assorted plants from a source on the east coast and they arrived all mush. What did survive was the Allium triquetrum and when they bloomed I realized what they were (this was before my joining PBS). From just a few I have them all over now and am relentlessly pulling them out. I'll never win. s. At 10:57 PM -0500 5/5/08, James Waddick wrote: > Thinking anew about the latter, and with the chief suspect ( >Ornithogalum umbellatum) in bloom. Gee it looks a lot like Iphieon >'Albert Castillo' only easier and cheaper. > Come to think of it, I don't think there is any really weedy >bulb here; even the Pinellias are easy to control and I rarely feel >like I have to pull them up. Allium triquetrum I've tried a couple of >times without any luck. It's in the 'ugly' category above. >Alstroemeria aurantiaca... I wish. But speaking of Hellebores >(Susan), the x orientalis types self seed very freely, but I just >donated a couple hundred to a local shade garden sale. Not a problem. -- susan hayek; on the coast of NorCal -- shayek.kent@gmail.com, 2008 my flicker fotos: http://flickr.com/photos/57336354@N00/ From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon May 5 13:17:41 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080505215631.01729d98@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Undependable Garden Bulbs Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 22:04:15 -0700 Rodger Whitlock, gardening somewhat north of me in the Pacific Northwest, listed as undependable (i.e., difficult or impossible to establish) some bulbs I also have trouble with. The big snowflakes (the ones still in the genus Leucojum and not transferred to Acis) do not flower here though the plants hang on. I attribute this problem to a fast-draining mineral soil that I can't keep adequately moist in summer. I can't grow Tricyrtis well either, and I attribute this to slugs, even though the new "safe" baits have reduced that problem significantly. I no longer have double Galanthus nivalis: could the stocks be virus-infected? The single one flourishes. As for daffodils, they do very well here despite the presence of narcissus fly, which is a pest in the bulb frames to the extent that I now cover the sternbergias with Reemay by mid-spring. I've been told that bulb fly is unlikely to lay eggs on plants in the shade, but even my garden narcissus in the sun seem largely unaffected. The garden snowdrops are mostly in the shade and seem not to be attacked. Perhaps the sheer volume of plants present is some defense. (The insects seem not to have emerged yet this year, which has been cold late into spring.) That said, I've also lost certain hybrid daffodils quickly, but I suspect some of them are not very cold-hardy. Rodger's garden is a bit warmer than mine in winter, though, because he's closer to the ocean and at a lower elevation. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue May 6 05:42:11 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7D74932AAA8E-124C-3CA4@WEBMAIL-MC16.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : over-enthusiastic bulbs Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 05:42:03 -0400 Hi Diane, I made myself the same comment... I would be ready to dig out any spare Tulipa hissarica, Narcissus cantabricus petuniodes,Galanthus nivalis, Fritillaria edwardii and Iris trojana that Clayton is about to put on his compost pile !!! I wonder how much of that was a joke !!! By the way Iris trojana is doing real well here as well as its natural hybrtid...?but by no means is envasive despite being grown in conditions almost identical to its leaving area in?Turkey...?I love the colour of the flowers and will soon post pics of the plants in my garden in the Wiki (as soon as I have learned how fo "control" the uploading system - thank you Marie Sue for the mail with all explanations)... First Spuriae are in flowers today (Iris graminea) and for about a week Iris anguifuga has been in full bloom. Luc From arlen.jose@verizon.net Tue May 6 07:13:23 2008 Message-Id: From: "arlen jose" Subject: over-enthusiastic bulbs Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 07:15:35 -0400 Clayton, Please donate them to the PBX (Big Grin) :)))) Fred Biasella -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Clayton3120 Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 12:06 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] over-enthusiastic bulbs Amen , friends. Tulipa hissarica has become a horrible nuisance in my garden, as well as Narcissus cantabricus petuniodes,Galanthus nivalis flore plena, Fritillaria edwardii, Iris trojana, and a host of others. Could my compost pile get any bigger? Careful what you sow! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] over-enthusiastic bulbs > Invader bulbs in the nearby park along the Bronx River here in southern > Westchester county (NY), just north of the Bronx line, include galanthus > and > scilla, both of which seem to relish the floodplain soil not far from the > "river" > (more a creek). A purple annual (biennial?) corydalis grows in one area > as > well, in woodland like the others. Natives include the Erythronium > americanum, Allium tricoccum (blooms after the leaves fade in summer), > Dicentra > cucullata, skunk cabbage, Sanginaria canadensis, and a few others. I've > tried to > introduce a few things myself, namely native Podophyllum (extra rhizome > divisions I planted in various locations a few weeks ago), Iris hexagona > (I think a > clump is still hanging on by a lake part of the river), and last fall I > planted Asimina triloba seeds in scattered locations from a friends trees > in > nearby Bronxville. Less pleasant invaders include Ameliopsis, Celastrus, > garlic > mustard, pachysandra, English ivy, and Norway maple. > While I am sure the galanthus and scilla got there from garden refuse, > they > have apparently spread by seed on their own for years, sometimes forming > large > colonies. > Oh yeah, the biggest threat to all of the woodland low growers, scads of > Ranunculus ficaria, now that is one plant that is way out of control in > wet > soils! At least it seems to avoid the drier slopes where the dutchman's > breeches > is found. > Ernie DeMarie (zone 6/7) where remarkably some Pelargonium alchemilloides > are sprouting back from the roots, as is a gazania "Christopher Lloyd". > Ditto > several cultivars of Salvia greggii, though never the peach colored one. > > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on > family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue May 6 08:46:15 2008 Message-Id: <000901c8af77$7ec41d90$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Some Allium events Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:48:32 -0400 Mary Sue wrote: “These discussions on what grows well for some and not so well for others and is a problem for others are very interesting. I'm amazed that Jim McKenney is so enthusiastic about Allium triquetrum.” The enthusiasm I was expressing was based on the appearance of the plant: I know nothing yet about its behavior as a garden plant in our climate. Since I’ve known about the plant for decades, this first time blooming in the garden allowed me to close a long open chapter. But since two of the responses to my mention of Allium triiquetrum have been in the form of heartfelt warnings about its invasive potential, you’ve not got me wondering if I’ve introduced another lesser celandine. I have a hunch that if it’s as bas as some of you are suggesting, it would already be here: after all, it’s a species long in both cultivation and in commerce, and people have been planting bulbs here for centuries. Our climate is not particularly bulb friendly. For instance, there are very few bulbs in the native flora. In the centuries during which people have gardened in this area, relatively few bulbs have jumped the fence and established themselves in the local flora. I hope that turns out to be true for Allium triquetrum, too. Mary Sue also commented on the difficulty of keeping various Allium in her garden when they are planted in the ground. The various Allium I’ve tried over the years seem to take care of themselves pretty well, sometimes under conditions which surprise me. For instance, I have plants of Allium cristophii which have been in a thickly planted, raised, relatively shaded bed for years – and they continue to do well. In fact, it’s a curious thing but most of the big middle eastern Allium seem to do better here in shady areas of the garden than is the sunniest parts. In the very sunny areas they seem much more prone to various bulb rots; in the shade the persist indefinitely. That is true of garden tulips, too: in the sunny areas they do not persist, but in the shady areas they often do. A few years ago I saw a local garden where Allium zebdanense had made itself at home, but hardly to the point of being a pest. The only Allium which is likely to be a pest here (other than Allium vineale in the lawn) is Allium tuberosum, but that one is so useful in the kitchen that few will complain too much about that. More onions, please! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where it's holy moly time again. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon May 5 21:19:18 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080506061721.01715eb8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Carefree or Undependable Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 06:19:47 -0700 Among Jim Waddick's undependables, I saw one I somehow forgot: Fritillaria imperialis. I cannot, cannot grow it, even in the bulb frame. And I grow ALL the closely related species (e.g., F. raddeana, F. eduardii and even F. chitralensis), as well as such species of dire reputation as F. alburyana, F. arriana, and F. falcata. I thought the problem was diseased bulbs, but I even killed a seedling after it flowered once. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From totototo@telus.net Tue May 6 14:17:07 2008 Message-Id: <20080506181702.D9L98FU110@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Undependable Garden Bulbs Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:17:14 -0700 On 5 May 08, at 22:04, Jane McGary wrote: > Rodger Whitlock, gardening somewhat north of me in the Pacific > Northwest, listed as undependable (i.e., difficult or impossible to > establish) some bulbs I also have trouble with. The big snowflakes > (the ones still in the genus Leucojum and not transferred to Acis) do > not flower here though the plants hang on. I attribute this problem to > a fast-draining mineral soil that I can't keep adequately moist in > summer. Oddly enough, dirty ol' commercial from-a-garden-centre Leucojum aestivum (maybwe 'Gravetye Giant') does quite well for me. Flowers reliably and no signs of grass due to fly attack. But I *do* garden on a quite heavy soil with a high water table so there's always at least a whiff of moisture, even in mid-summer. This inspires me to pass on some advice for those of you frustrated with sharp-draining soils who want to do something about it. Clay works, but the trick is to dry it out during the summer, break it up into smallish lumps, and broadcast these on the surface in the fall. The winter rains will break down the lumps and wash the clay into the soil. If you try digging it in, all you end up with is sand with lumps of clay in it here and there. It may also help if you can excavate your beds and put a thick layer of old newpapers at the bottom before backfilling with soil. Back to narcissus fly: I am surprised that no enterprising pesticide company has come up with a pheromone attractant. Anybody heard of such a thing? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Tue May 6 14:17:07 2008 Message-Id: <20080506181702.E1X73CS75E@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Carefree or Undependable Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:17:14 -0700 On 5 May 08, at 12:32, James Waddick wrote: > Martagon lilies - forget them. Never had a bloom although > most lilies do just fine and I wouldn't be without them. Martagons are a success in my ex-swamp/former marsh. By sheer dumb luck, I planted them in a congenial position, shaded on the south by a neighbor's hedge (red cedars that are starting to get too big for comfort), in my usual heavyish, clayish, dampish soil. They flower and seed with abandon, and self-sown seedlings appear in modest numbers. IOW: they don't seem to need a lot of direct sun; they like soil that's never really bone dry; they can handle lots of water in winter; they don't want a summer baking. Also comfortable in this site, the fragrant Trillium albidum and Sanguinaria canadensis 'Multiplex'. Too comfortable: Anemone nemorosa 'Vestal', which has gotten mixed up with a patch of Ophiopogon japonicus minor; the entire area is going to have to be lifted and the soil screened to remove the anemone. Ugh! The same conditions also suit Narcissus eystettensis, in case anybody is thinking of springing for a start of this rare but beautiful antique cultivar -- it was in Parkinson's "Paradisus in Soli Paradisi." (I hope I've got that name right.) In the thread on Over Enthuiastic Bulbs, Diane Whitehead mentioned Hyacinthoides (aka Endymion). I second, third, and in fact millionth her nomination for Worst Bulbous Pest of All Time (with a nod to Ornithogalum umbellatum). I was in my previous house 13 years. Every spring I would sedulously lift all the Hyacinthoides I could find. When I left, after 13 years of digging, there were as many as ever. I've been in my present house nearly 20 years, and the same thing has happened: as many, if not more, than ever. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue May 6 14:37:12 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Undependable bulbs - Fritillaria imperialis Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:36:52 -0700 There have been a couple of mentions of Frit imperialis as being difficult to grow. The top of the hill where I live has a couple of gravel pits. The bottom has outflows from a nearby lake, so the bottom supports many plants that won't grow at the top. Pierre Timp's display bulb garden used to be there. All through the bulb season, visitors would wander the paths, order form and pencil in hand. Then in the fall, the bulbs we'd ordered would arrive from Holland. The skunky odour of the frit would drift along the path and meet us before we could see the spectacular clumps of flowers. Nonetheless, I did buy some of each colour - red, orange, and yellow. I read that one had to plant them sideways so they wouldn't rot, so I followed instructions. I did see leaves the first year, but I never had flowers, and not even leaves in subsequent years. I don't know whether Mr. Timp replaced his bulbs each year, or whether they thrived in his damp garden. Does anyone have success with them? Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From dewaardton@yahoo.com Tue May 6 15:43:33 2008 Message-Id: <497256.76361.qm@web56605.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Ton de Waard Subject: Narcissus fly Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:43:32 -0700 (PDT) In the commercial trade here in Holland they use a warm water treatment to get rid of the big narcissus fly (Merodon equestris). After digging the bulbs they soak them for 2 hours in warm water (43.5 C) this kills the larva of the big narcissus fly. The small narcissus fly (Eumerus strigatus) does not do much harm to healthy bulbs. Regards, Ton ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Tue May 6 15:52:36 2008 Message-Id: <380-22008526195236546@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Frit. Imperialis Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:52:36 -0700 Many years ago I lived in zone 5 in a snowy climate with dryish summers. The previous owner planted Fritillaria Imperialis next to the house on the east side in complete shade from two tall trees. The soil was heavy with sporadic irrigation. They flowered most years, though they looked weak. Who would have thought they'd survive in those conditions? I've never been able to grow them since. Kathy Stokmanis Zone 8/9, mediterranean with acid clay soil From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue May 6 16:23:34 2008 Message-Id: <4820BE15.4070609@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Undependable Garden Bulbs Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 16:22:45 -0400 Rodger: I like the point about the pheromone attractant. There are attractants for almost every bug, fly, moth out there. Could it be that it is not financial viable to spend R & D dollars on that? Arnold From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue May 6 16:33:21 2008 Message-Id: <4820C036.6090609@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Undependable bulbs - Fritillaria imperialis Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 16:31:50 -0400 I have to admit that I have a clump that has defied all rationality. It has grown in a damp spot on the west side of a garage under a medlar tree. So it gets very little direct sun. There are large beech trees overhead and I leave all the beech leaves in place as well. I planted the bulbs first then forgetting where the bulbs were planted the medlar. They have flowered reliably for twelve years and have increased nicely. Can't tell you all why but they come back as reliable as April 15 ( tax due day here in the US). Arnold From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Tue May 6 16:37:07 2008 Message-Id: <9F1790EC-01A8-4680-B12D-292A53CAD379@tiscali.it> From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: new arisaema pictures Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 22:37:00 +0200 Hi all, just posted two pictures 1) Arisaema Ringens ( clump cultivated in the wood after three years ) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema/ Arisaema_ringens_2008_gp.jpg 2) Sikokianum variegated leaves, very attractive rich variegation http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema/ Arisaema_sikokianum_var_gp.jpg giorgio pozzi Tavedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Tue May 6 16:39:29 2008 Message-Id: From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: Fwd: new arisaema pictures Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 22:39:24 +0200 Sorry the links were swritten on different lines Inizio messaggio inoltrato: > Da: studio pozzi taubert > Data: 06 maggio 2008 22:37:00 GMT+02:00 > A: Pacific Bulb Society > Oggetto: [pbs] new arisaema pictures > Rispondi a: Pacific Bulb Society > > Hi all, > > just posted two pictures > > 1) Arisaema Ringens ( clump cultivated in the wood after three > years ) > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema/ > Arisaema_ringens_2008_gp.jpg > > 2) Sikokianum variegated leaves, very attractive rich variegation > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema/ > Arisaema_sikokianum_var_gp.jpg > > > > giorgio pozzi > Tavedona (Varese) > Italy zone 7/8 > > studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki giorgio pozzi Tavedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Tue May 6 16:56:17 2008 Message-Id: <6D45E347-601D-46BB-A4AC-D3DC6F9DAEB6@tiscali.it> From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: arisaema asperatum picture Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 22:55:06 +0200 Uploaded file: arisaema asperatum another attempt hoping the name is on single line as i type it http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema/ Arisaema_asperatum_2008_gp.jpg giorgio pozzi Tavedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From JmsJon664@aol.com Tue May 6 17:12:27 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7DD50257A4C2-DAC-1C81@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Alstroemeria aurea Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 17:12:21 -0400 The on-going discussion about Alstoemeria aurea prompts me to write about my own experiences: I've had it for many years tight against the south-facing foundation where it thrives or at least survives (e.g in the -12o winter).  Nature takes care of its spreading tendencies, hammering down runners that go beyond a certain limit.  When it comes time to unveil the Colchicum I just pull out the Alstroemeria shoots by the handful.  Mixed with the Alstroemeria is an Argemone pleiacantha hybrid to make a quite unlikely midsummer show. A bulb I overlooked: Cardiocrinum cordatum.  I raised it from seed; after 7-years it put forth droopy off-white flowers, in July, and died.  But not to despair!  Seven years later self-sown seedlings came to maturity, a cycle that has been going on for 23 years now.  The leaves just as they emerge in late April are spectacular, mottled and shiny, and though this fades in a few weeks they remain attractive. Jim Jones Lexington MA  Z5-6 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue May 6 19:32:13 2008 Message-Id: <000601c8afd1$bd4fd310$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Parkinson's Paradisus; was : RE: Carefree or Undependable Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 19:34:31 -0400 Roger Whitlock mentioned John Parkinson’s Paradisus of 1629. The full title of the work is Paradisi in Sole Paradisus Terrestris. It’s a pun on the author’s name; the title can be punningly translated as Parkinson’s (the park in sun’s, paradise in sole, of the title) Earthly Paradise (one of several possibilities). The only nominative noun in the title is Paradisus, and to generations of gardeners it has been affectionately known as “the Paradisus”. Some modern writers, not trained in Latin, clumsily refer to it as the Paradisi. For that explanation I should gratefully accept a bulb of the Prince-Bishop of Eichstätt’s daffodil. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Hyacinthoides hispanica is now blooming. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue May 6 20:18:56 2008 Message-Id: <004d01c8afd6$de433df0$c8ee8f47@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 64, Issue 10 Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 19:11:14 -0500 Thank you Jim Jones---you give me hope for A. ligtu, and to Jim McKenney for the Latinate pune clarification and your continuing information which helps me grow stuff that I shouldn't even try here in the Chicago area. Colder than you, but it's helpful information. I'll off the top of my head mention stuff that is invasive, and nearly impossible to rid of (the geophytic ones). An onion, native which never blooms and probably is the one that Chicago is named for. Small and spreads like dandelions. Scilla siberica, invasive and nice for a few weeks in early May, but nearly immune to weedkillers that aren't Roundup. The not nasty but otherwise reliable class . Lily of the valley (Will send a hunk of about 36 square inches to anybody who asks. If you can't grow it it's probably beause you coddle it and water it or something.) Not a bulb but maybe fits into a geophyte class .? Mertensia virginica. Every year, it's there with the Convalarria Reliable "if you don't mess with them too much" class All of the larger Narcissus hybrids; and daylilies; and ANY tulip I've tried, species or hybrid; Arisaema triphyllum, any form; . Arisaemas amurense, sikokianum and the Sikotak hybrid from Eco-Gardens in Georgia ; Codonopsis lanceolata , good for 4 years running now at the base of a corkscrew willow. Yucca (of gardens about 6 feet high) in a spot that floods vernally for weeks at a time and has its seeds eaten regularly by some kind of moth larva. . A not definitively identified variegated Polygonatum from a friend in Wisconsin, but the one that has a green opening to its bell and pictured on Dogpile Images., spreads nicely and hs beatifiul pink sprouts when they first show out of the ground. The trilliums luteum, and recurvatum are reliable and stay where I put them. . Haven't tried the others, but may do so. Sanguinaria canadensis seems to do OK, but I'm losing one for as yet unknown reasons, but I'm guessing that it's gettign trampled by mating squirrels as it's been in their path for a few years. Will move it to save it. . Most of the hybrid lilies do well if I can keep the squirrel away from them. They kill them by climbing them and break off their stalks about the time that they're beginning to look climbable., i.e., about a foot,. Does Bleeding Heart count as a geophyte? Both the newer smaller hybrid and the old species are reliable for me as are Tricyrtises. Peonies are sort of a standby but don't like to have wet feet for more than a week. I think this has been and may continue to be a good thread. We need to know what grows for us in various regions and soil and climate conditions. I deliberately am trying grossly out-of-range things and having a few moderate successes along with Jim Waddick, Jim Shields, Jim McKenney and probably a few experimenters. Cheers, Everyone . Adam in the Chicago area, USDA Z5a From msittner@mcn.org Tue May 6 20:53:02 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080506173321.03507190@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Arisaema pictures, Camassia pictures Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 17:34:40 -0700 Giorgio's new Arisaema ringens picture http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/ArisaemaSpeciesFour#ringens New Arisaema sikokianum picture http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/ArisaemaSpeciesFour#sikokianum The other Arisaema picture doesn't seem to have made it to a wiki page yet. Giorgio also added a picture of Camassia scilloides http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Camassia Mary Sue From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue May 6 20:54:43 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: missing snowdrop mystery solved Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 17:54:18 -0700 I have grown Galanthus woronowii for decades, a passalong plant here, which has never set seed. A couple of years ago small pots of woronowii in flower appeared on the plant stands outside my grocery store. I stood outside in chilly January, scrutinizing every pot, as they were either seedlings, or wild-collected, and they all varied. I planted my choices near my original colony so that bees could pollinate them all easily. This year I noticed only one of the new plants. I read in Snowdrops (Bishop, Davis and Grimshaw) that wild-collected bulbs are not often good garden plants, and this unfortunately seems to be true for me. However, today I was out doing my yearly routine of digging out Spanish bluebells - great clumps of bulbs everywhere, even though I dug them out last year, and the year before that, back into history. Suddenly I realized that I was digging in the area that I had planted the new snowdrops. That explains why they didn't do well in my garden. They must have been dug out with the bluebells last year and thrown on the compost. I will have to look for and mark bluebell-free areas so I can have safe places to grow new bulbs. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue May 6 21:03:01 2008 Message-Id: <000701c8afde$6c761e60$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: missing snowdrop mystery solved Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 21:05:20 -0400 Diane, I had to laugh when I read this. Among some snowdrop bulbs received here years ago as Galanthus caucasicus there is one plant which clumps freely and produces the largest snowdrop foliage I've ever seen. I was looking at it the other day, and every time I see it I think one of the big Allium such as A. stipitatum has seeded there. Sadly, the flowers are small and all out of proportion to the foliage. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where some of the Corydalis are already totally gone above ground for the year. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From hornig@earthlink.net Tue May 6 21:13:49 2008 Message-Id: From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: missing snowdrop mystery solved Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 21:21:17 -0400 While we're telling snowdrop stories.... Several weeks ago, my husband returned from walking the dog in the woods to announce that in a derelict area off the road he had spotted several clumps of old-fashioned double snowdrops in bloom. I dearly love these things, and the prospect of good numbers free was enticing, so back we went, me with trowel in hand, to liberate them. As I knelt in the forest duff and pried out the clumps, I was aware that there were dormant vines running all through them, and I made a mental note that the vines were probably poison ivy and I should take proper precautions when I got home. However, when I did get home I was in such a hurry to plant my new treasures in the garden that I completely forgot about the poison ivy. Over the next week, I developed the worst case of posion ivy rash I have ever endured - I was miserable. I'll never look at double snowdrops quite the same way again. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue May 6 21:39:44 2008 Message-Id: <48210835.9080100@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: missing snowdrop mystery solved Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 21:39:01 -0400 So, what are the remedies that bulb folk use to combat the dreaded Toxicodendron radicans? Arnold From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue May 6 21:49:00 2008 Message-Id: <000801c8afe4$dd845260$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: missing snowdrop mystery solved Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 21:51:26 -0400 Arnold asked: " So, what are the remedies that bulb folk use to combat the dreaded Toxicodendron radicans?" Jewel weed, Impatiens capensis, works for me. Round-Up is better. : ) Jim McKenney From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue May 6 22:03:36 2008 Message-Id: <000901c8afe6$e0a1ad10$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: missing snowdrop mystery solved Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 22:05:50 -0400 Another snow drop story, or rather a continuation of one started in a much earlier post. My bulbs of the double-flowered form of Galanthus nivalis came from a local estate now managed as a natural history organization. I had spotted them growing in the muck beside the ruts of the trucks which used the area where they were growing as a sort of dump. I asked one of the groundskeepers if I might take a few, and he practically handed me the shovel then and there. Later, I got a distressed call from him to the effect that he should not have let me have those bulbs. When I offered to return them, he paradoxically said that it was not necessary to do so. I’ve been back to check those clumps on several occasions: the last time I looked some had already fallen under the truck tires and been smashed into the mud. I’ve deliberately mentioned mud and muck because I suspect that they might be a clue to the problem Jane is having in keeping this plant. After moving the bulbs into my garden, the first year’s blooms were not very shapely, although the plants as seen at the source site were the fullest and handsomest double snowdrops I’ve ever seen. I suspect that they respond well to lots of water when in growth. My plants are multiplying well, and in this second year in my garden they produced very nice flowers. They grow in a clay loam which holds water well. Some double-flowered snowdrops are tricky to grow in our climate. I have a clump of what was received as Ophelia (I have a habit of mistakenly calling it Cornelia); it grew here for decades without blooming. Several years ago it began to bloom and now blooms yearly. Well, it sort-of blooms. It produces flowers, and some of those flowers actually go on to open fully. But most do not open at all. This plant grows at the edge of a dry wall, and I think it’s time to take my own advice and get it into moister soil. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From antennaria@charter.net Tue May 6 22:08:55 2008 Message-Id: <20080506220855.YE5M2.159266.root@fepweb14> From: Mark McDonough Subject: word-wrapped links - a basic internet skill Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 22:08:55 -0400 From: Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 22:37:00 +0200 From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: [pbs] new arisaema pictures To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <9F1790EC-01A8-4680-B12D-292A53CAD379@tiscali.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi all, just posted two pictures 1) Arisaema Ringens ( clump cultivated in the wood after three years ) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema/ Arisaema_ringens_2008_gp.jpg 2) Sikokianum variegated leaves, very attractive rich variegation http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema/ Arisaema_sikokianum_var_gp.jpg From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: [pbs] Fwd: new arisaema pictures To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed ===================== Hey folks, if you click on the upper portion of a word-wrapped 2-line URL, follow the link, then copy-&-paste the send line and APPEND it to the url you first clicked. It works just fine when you realize that sometimes URLs are so long they word-wrap, so copy and paste the whole thing. Both URLs cited work just fine, if those basic steps are taken. Mark McDonough antennaria@charter.net From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Wed May 7 01:30:30 2008 Message-Id: <003f01c8b003$736ccdc0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Galanthus nivalis 'Flore pleno' Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 06:30:22 +0100 It's fascinating to read about members' experiences with the common double snowdrop. This is an extremely interesting plant: the oldest known snowdrop cultivar (first recorded 1703); male fertile, female infertile; incredibly vigorous; prone to variation, and a damn good garden plant, even if galanthophiles are snooty about it. In the UK it is a fast-multiplying plant, soon forming fat clumps whose uppermost bulbs become detached and become scattered, effectively spreading it around. There are whole woodlands full of it and no other snowdrop - remarkable for a plant that cannot set seed. In poor soil, however, it can multiply to the point where it becomes too congested & starved to flower, and will need to be replanted deeper. I think that this is important. Snowdrops are greedy feeders, and need good nourishment and ample moisture during their growing season (AUGUST to May!) to keep them at their best. They should not die down too soon, so deep planting helps keep their roots where the soil remains moist longest. Shading by other plants also has a detrimental effect on leaf-longevity, and hence bulb size and next year's flowering. The Greatorex Doubles, hybrids of G. plicatus pollinated by 'Flore Pleno' are, as Jim McKenney pointed out, apt to become very congested and produce few flowers. Again, they like good fertile conditions to do well. I shall be spending the day marking hundreds of clumps of snowdrops for lifting once they're dormant, and probably moving a few around. The bulbs are now mature enough to withstand the move without any loss of flower quality next year, but the whole operation is so much easier if they're left a few weeks longer and you can deal with a nice dry clump. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue May 6 13:50:02 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080506222906.01734ae8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Some Allium events Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 22:41:27 -0700 Thank goodness I had read about the bad behavior of Allium triquetrum, because it was very pretty in the wild (in Spain) and tempting because it was flowering in considerable shade -- but I knew not to look for seeds! Allium unifolium behaves better for me here in western Oregon than it does for Mary Sue in coastal California, but it hasn't escaped its original spot, nor has European A. moly, sometimes considered invasive. The one that does get around here is A. carinatum ssp. pulchellum (Mark McD, correct me if that's not the currently accepted name), which produces "fireworks" flowerheads in late summer, in lavender or white. In a naturalistic garden such as mine (that is code for "messy"), it's a valuable plant because of its showy (good for cutting) flowers and unusual season of bloom, but I won't be taking it when I move to a smaller garden. It has little foliage and gets about 12 inches/30 cm tall on stiff stems, so it can be grown among other, low plants. Many years ago I got seed misidentified as A. campanulatum from the Robinetts' list and grew plants that have become a little over-enthusiastic. I believe they were tentatively identified a couple of years ago as A. membranaceum. The scapes are about 6 in/15 cm tall, and the relatively large inflorescence is pale pink; they make a mass of flowers in late June and also a mass of bulbs below ground. Another long-term survivor from that seed order is A. hyalinum, correctly identified in this case and by no means a pest, a tiny species happy in stiff, unirrigated soil. The real A. campanulatum is a treasure and comes in some excellent dark forms obtainable as seed from Ron Ratko. A pair of rather similar and excellent American species are A. pluricaule and A. falcifolium; I notice one (I think the former) coming up from a stray seed in a sand bed. A. amplectens, a showy pink American native, has seeded about in the bulb frame and should do all right outdoors. Because I spread discarded potting soil from the bulb collection on the garden, I get many surprises after a few years; I see both Fritillaria whittallii and F. messanensis blooming in the same sand bed, presumably from stray seeds, and even my beloved Anemone palmata producing its brilliant yellow flowers, albeit on stems shorter than it manages with a bit of protection. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue May 6 13:50:04 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080506224254.016dac08@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Alstroemerias as pests or not Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 22:52:08 -0700 Recently Diane mentioned Alstroemeria aurea (formerly known as A. aurantiaca) as an invasive geophyte. The "Ligtu Hybrids" are also noted for invasiveness. I wouldn't let this stop me from planting alstros, though, because I love them very much. I think you just have to designate a place where they can romp away. In nature A. aurea can be seen carpeting light woodland (mostly Nothofagus or Southern Beech) and also on open hillsides. I have forms from the latter habitat and they're not obnoxious here; they're also shorter-growing. The Archibalds sell seed of this population from Termas de Chillan, Chile. Populations from farther south seem to be taller, more shade-tolerant, and less brilliantly colored. In my rock garden is a very large berm of sand and gravel over a mound of soil, given over to two subspecies of A. ligtu: ssp. incarnata and ssp. simsii. They're just making their major growth now, but sharing the berm with them are some Juno irises and quite a number of "extra" bulbs that flower earlier, and some species tulips. By the time the alstros elongate, the early bulbs are withering and aren't harmed. Flowering about the same time as the alstros is Hastingsia alba, a big plant from northern California that coexists well. The alstros don't escape because the berm is surrounded by a packed gravel path that is sprayed with Round-up a couple of times a year. If you have room for a feature like this, it is rewarding and provides masses of cut flowers in midsummer. There are also plenty of small Alstroemeria species, some of which should be hardy outdoors in temperate regions. I expect A. revoluta would be, and perhaps A. diluta. A. hookeri did not survive in the open for me (it's coastal). I'll eventually experiment with quite a few on raised scree beds. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jegrace@rose.net Wed May 7 02:22:13 2008 Message-Id: <1210141314_24429@mail.rose.net> From: "jegrace" Subject: missing snowdrop mystery solved Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 02:20:30 -0400 And here I am trying in vain to grow Spanish bluebells.... LOL Erin Grace, Thomasville, GA USA USDA hardiness zone 8b, AHS zone 9 From shayek.kent@gmail.com Wed May 7 02:27:56 2008 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: missing snowdrop mystery solved Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 23:27:45 -0700 At 2:20 AM -0400 5/7/08, jegrace wrote: >And here I am trying in vain to grow Spanish bluebells.... > >LOL **Same here. I've planted them all over. Nice big plants with lovely flowers, but they're not spreading. sigh... s. -- susan hayek on the coast of Northern California -- shayek.kent@gmail.com, 2008 my flicker fotos: http://flickr.com/photos/57336354@N00/ From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed May 7 10:56:23 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Hardy Alstroemeria Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:55:49 -0500 Dear friends, No one has mentioned A. psitticina, the only species to be reliably hardy and return in my climate. None of the 'so called' hardy named cvs has lasted more than a year or two, but I have not tried A. aurea. Maybe all those people pulling these up might pass them on to Dell for the Bulb X. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed May 7 10:56:18 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Spanish bluebells Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:55:55 -0500 Dear Friends who dig up and compost Spanish bluebells Send them to the BX. NOW! Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed May 7 10:56:23 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Frit. Imperialis Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:56:37 -0500 Dear Friends, Seems like schizophrenia reigns supreme. I re-checked a couple 'authorities' and they recommended full sun, good drainage, while the responses of actual PBSers who CAN grow this suggest shade and damp, even clay. I may try this again in the worst possible spot. Jeez. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed May 7 11:01:30 2008 Message-Id: <001e01c8b053$2c7294e0$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Frit. Imperialis Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 11:01:04 -0400 Jim, I planted 3 each of three selections of Fritillaria eduardii last fall in full sun, good drainage - and they have been pathetic this spring. I doubt I'll see them again. They were great bulbs; a couple didn't even show above ground. How they can do so badly so quickly? I planted a few F. imperialis here years ago and never saw them again. They do really well with Norm Deno in State College - in the central PA mountains. Seems like cool and damp is good, or at least cool. I suspect our long hot fall screwed up the eduardii. Best, J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed May 7 11:11:16 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Spanish bluebells Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 08:10:54 -0700 Both Rodger and I live in Canada, which makes that difficult. However, there are probably gardens full of them in Seattle. Diane James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends who dig up and compost Spanish bluebells > > Send them to the BX. NOW! Jim W. > -- From LucGBulot@aol.com Wed May 7 11:34:18 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7E6EDA584360-84C-A65@webmail-db11.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Fritillaria imperialis and F. eduardii habitats Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 11:33:37 -0400 Hi all, Even if it is threatened at some localities, Fritillaria imperialis has a large distribution in Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Having a quick look to the literature I found the following data: - Cliffs, rocky slopes and amongst scrub, 1000 - 3000 metres in Turkey [Phillips. R. and Rix. M. Bulbs Pan Books 1989]. -?On humus rich soils, usually in gullies and shaded sides of large rocks, 1800 - 2600 metres in Kashmir [Singh. G. and Kachroo. P. Forest Flora of Srinagar. Bishen Singh Mahendra Pal Singh 1976]. - Widely spread in the Zagros mountains, in places by the thousands on stony or rocky slopes in Iran [Wendelbo P. Tulips and Irises of Iran and their relatives. Botanical Institute of Iran 1977]. To the difference Fritillaria eduardii is a rare endemic of Central Asia with discontinuous areal. In Uzbekistan (Surkhandarya and Fergana provinces), the species is reported among shrubs, under trees, infrequently on the stony, crude looses of buhr up to 2100 meters above the sea level. In Tadjikistan (Nurek reservoir area), the species has been reported to grow at approximately 2600-2700m in pistacia shrubs along slopes of a gorge. Hope it will help, Luc From Theladygardens@aol.com Wed May 7 12:15:28 2008 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Hardy Alstroemeria Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:15:08 EDT These are great suggestions, Thanks Jim. I used to have this alstromeria and will check to see if it's still there. If so, I'll send it. I do have bluebells but have never bothered to figure out which bluebell as I considered it a common garden plant. But after the leaves die down, I'll send some of those also. I'm thrilled to have something to send and I'm guilty of thinking no one would want most of what I have. Some of the seeds I have got from the exchange have bloomed for me the first time this year and it has been so exciting. I've had a few gladiolus bloom and tritonia species from Joyce Miller. Carolyn Craft, Los Gatos CA **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From Theladygardens@aol.com Wed May 7 12:19:08 2008 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Frit. Imperialis Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:18:26 EDT I've tried this plant several times in full sun with good drainage and haven't been successful. I've got clay and shade so I may just try it again - even though I'm sure I've killed it myself 3 times already. Is it ok to keep trying after 3 times, Tony? Carolyn Craft **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed May 7 12:28:17 2008 Message-Id: <000301c8b05f$a9bbad90$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Frit. Imperialis Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:30:26 -0400 I’m glad to see a Fritillaria imperialis thread again. I’m going to repeat a story I’ve told on this forum in the past; it fits nicely into the current flow of the discussion. But first, let me mention that the mini-Fritillaria imperialis, namely F. raddeana, has done well here treated as a pot plant in a cold frame. It bloomed again this year for the third year in a row. I’ve admitted to my failure with Fritillaria imperialis in the past, and it’s not simply Schadenfreude which now gives me pleasure when I consider that I am evidently in the distinguished company of Jane McGary and John Lonsdale. Ha ha: how many of you know William Walsh's poem Rivals? It expresses well my feelings about my love affair with Fritillaria imperialis. Walsh died in 1708; here it is from the Oxford Book of English Verse, with the text slightly modified (and the meter massacred) to fit this topic: Of all the torments, all the cares, With which our lives are curst; Of all the plagues a lover bears, Sure rivals are the worst! By partners in each other kind Afflictions easier grow; In love alone we hate to find Companions of our woe. Corona imperialis, for all the pangs you see Are labouring in my breast, I beg not you would favor me, Would you but slight the rest! How great soe'er your rigours are, With them alone I'll cope; I can endure my own despair, But not another's hope. My apologies to the memory or William Walsh, who probably would have known this plant as Corona imperialis. Generally speaking, I think it’s a mistake to dwell too much on failures – I suspect that even the worst growers among us have enough imagination to fabricate explanations for the failures. Focus instead on successes – not that they are necessarily any easier to understand. And I have a success to focus on, one which is in some ways similar to what Arnold reported. Sometime back in the early 70s I received a dozen bulbs of Fritillaria imperialis from a Dutch supplier; they were mailed directly to me from the Netherlands (not that that made a difference). I planted them here and there around the garden. As usual, all bloomed magnificently the first year. Several returned the second year without bloom. By the third year, only one remained. That plant was planted under a copper beech (thus the similarity to Arnold’s report). Also, and don’t hold me to this, I vaguely remember dumping a full eighty pound bad of ground limestone or hydrated lime on that spot. For the next ten or so years that one surviving plant reappeared but never bloomed. Then it began to bloom, and for about another ten years it bloomed yearly. It was eventually a huge plant, easily four feet high and with proportionately large flowers. Then one summer I dumped a wheelbarrow load of something on the crown imperial site, and that was the end of it – it never reappeared, and when I dug down to look for the bulb there was nothing there. But it had survived for about twenty years, and that experience made me a believer. I’ve noticed that when growing in the shade of deciduous trees, Fritillaria imperialis is one of those plants whose foliage expands noticeably as the trees leaf out. I take that as a hint that it is adapted to life in the shade of deciduous woody plants. In a small little tended garden I know in the valley of Virginia (i.e. between the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Shenandoah Mountains) a plant of Fritillaria imperialis grew for years. The climate there differs little from the climate here: winters are of comparable severity (perhaps a bit colder there) and summers are comparably hot and humid and sporadically wet. But there is one significant difference, and it’s readily observable to the experienced gardener. The garden flora there is a bit different because the soil there is full of lime. The garden in question is on old farmland, and the autochthon is by nature full of limestone. Might something as simple as pH or readily available calcium be the answer to the culture of this plant? I put that hypothesis to the test last fall with a few bulbs of both Fritillaria imperialis and F. persica (and also F. pallidiflora, another species whose stature gives it potential value as a garden plant). I loaded the planting site with ground limestone. It’s too soon to tell now because they’ve just finished blooming, but in a few weeks I’ll be getting hints on their prognosis. These bulbs are in a spot exposed to sun for several hours during the middle of the day. If this iteration of the experiment does not work, I’m game to try again next year in a site under deciduous trees. Also on the roster: trials in gypsum and in a non-acid forming sulfur source. Several dozen other species of Fritillaria have proven to be manageable here: you would think I might grow the crown imperial, too. I’m not ready to give up yet. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where several herbaceous garden peonies are blooming already with the ornamental onions and with tall bearded iris about to join them. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Wed May 7 12:38:57 2008 Message-Id: <000e01c8b060$92da2ce0$bf246f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Camassia Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:36:59 -0700 I don't know how to upload to the wiki, but I have just posted a picture of a pink flowered Camassia leichtlinii on my blog: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. Has anyone ever seen a pink flowered Camassia before? Mine originated in Oregon, and apparently the parent population was wiped out by road widening. There are also some lengthy postings on Calochortus, which are blooming now. Diana Chapman Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com blog: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com From LucGBulot@aol.com Wed May 7 12:41:17 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7E78448A100B-140C-4D33@WEBMAIL-MA03.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Hardy Alstroemeria Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 12:41:01 -0400 Hi again, Interesting that the Hardy Alstroemeria discussion comes up since I am trying to dig out the problem on my side as well... If one consider that Alstroemeria aurea is a potential candidate, therefore there is a bunch of high elevation species from the South of Chile and the Central Cordillera that should also be tested. Here is a list and I wonder if some of you grow them in full ground: Alstroemeria patagonica replaces A. aurea to the south. It is the most austral of all members of the genus. Alstroemeria presliana and its ssp. australis occurs both in Neuquen (Argentina) and adjacent regions of Chile. The typical form ranges from 1500 to 2000m in altitude. The subspecies occurs at lower elevations but more to the south Among the populations of A. ligtu, its ssp. incarnata occurs at the higher elevation (up to 2000m) in the Central Cordillera (Region O'Higgins and Maule) and should be considered. Other species from the Central cordillera includes A. exerens, A. pseudospathulata, A. umbellata, A. versicolor, A. andina, A. pallida and A. spathulata... Hope it is of interest.. if anyone is interested by more habitat details just ask - I have a quite extensive literature on the genus in Chile... Luc From Clayton3120@cablespeed.com Wed May 7 12:55:20 2008 Message-Id: <001201c8b062$e0258ce0$0a428f18@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Clayton3120" Subject: Spanish bluebells Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:53:28 -0700 Jim, Spanish Bluebells are in FULL boloom right now. Not the time to be digging them, however, the woods across the lane from me is carpeted with them. What colors do you want? Shall I send a semi full of them? ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:55 AM Subject: [pbs] Spanish bluebells > Dear Friends who dig up and compost Spanish bluebells > > Send them to the BX. NOW! Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed May 7 13:42:25 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Frit. Imperialis - pH Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:40:43 -0500 >Might something as simple as pH or readily available calcium be the answer >to the culture of this plant? I put that hypothesis to the test last fall >with a few bulbs of both Fritillaria imperialis and F. persica (and also F. pallidiflora, Dear Jim Mc, I grow the "Frits" persica and pallidiflora - maybe not great - but they multiply and bloom. My soil pH varies around the garden, but all distinctly above 7 towards 9 and my tap water varies from 9 to 11. Every rock here with the exception of a few granitic glacial erratics is pure limestone. So I think I can cross off a simple pH as problematic here. Same for calcium. I can already feel the wallet getting lighter as I peruse the F. imperialis sellers. And by the way, does nay one know how the Dutch grow them so well that they can ship large bulbs in big quantities? Are these dug and stored each summer? Thanks and best -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed May 7 13:42:23 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Spanish bluebells Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:42:49 -0500 >Jim, Spanish Bluebells are in FULL boloom right now. Not the time to be >digging them, however, the woods across the lane from me is carpeted with >them. >What colors do you want? Shall I send a semi full of them? Dear Clayton, Speaking for Dell and the BX, as soon as they are dormant enough and diggable, send them to Dell and keep on until he says 'Uncle" and gives up. I'lll send in my order right away. White, pink, blue, day-glo, any color! Do you feel like a challenge? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dewaardton@yahoo.com Wed May 7 14:17:23 2008 Message-Id: <600101.548.qm@web56601.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Ton de Waard Subject: Frit. Imperialis - pH Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:17:16 -0700 (PDT) This must be interesting: Regards, Ton > And by the way, does nay one know how the Dutch > grow them so > well that they can ship large bulbs in big > quantities? Are these dug > and stored each summer? > > Thanks and best > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Wed May 7 14:47:07 2008 Message-Id: <002101c8b072$85ace500$55a7f10a@wsbmain.net> From: "Fred Biasella" Subject: FW: Gagea Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:45:29 -0400 Hello All, I've been following the thread about what people grow in their gardens and this little plant caught my eye. Does anyone know where to find these little lovelies? I have been searching on the web, but no luck. Does anyone else grow them in colder (zone 5 & 6) climates? Warm Regards, Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA USDA Zone 6b From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed May 7 14:50:58 2008 Message-Id: <000401c8b073$9bd6eaa0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Frit. Imperialis - Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:53:14 -0400 I'll bet that Jim Waddick is right that pH alone will not explain our problems with Fritillaria imperialis. However, I'm convinced it's a step in the right direction for those of us on the East Coast. It might be a case where some pathogen in our soils is deterred by a shift in the pH, or it might be a case where some nutrient is more readily taken up in soils with a higher pH. Years ago I used to dig bulbs of Fritillaria imperialis for the summer. Even bulbs stored in the open air inside the house developed necrotic spots and rotted. So as with pH, moist summer conditions alone can not explain our problems. But this failure provides a hint, doesn't it? Whatever was causing the bulbs to rot was in/on the bulbs by the time they ripened. The rot occurs even in bulbs which do not have soil contact during the dormant period. The local Fusarium are at the top of my list of suspects. And the slightly cooler conditions provided by the shade of deciduous trees is definitely worth investigating. I have not given up! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed May 7 14:53:34 2008 Message-Id: <000901c8b073$fde85ad0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: FW: Gagea Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:55:59 -0400 Fred Biasella asked about Gagea : "Does anyone else grow them in colder (zone 5 & 6) climates?" Fred, I don't know about their performance in colder climates, but here in zone 7 Gagea fibrosa is a reliable garden plant. Jim McKenney From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Wed May 7 14:59:49 2008 Message-Id: <002601c8b074$4f49a320$55a7f10a@wsbmain.net> From: "Fred Biasella" Subject: FW: Gagea Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:58:16 -0400 Jim, Thanks for the reply. Did you raise yours by seed or bulblets? Fred -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 2:56 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] FW: Gagea Fred Biasella asked about Gagea : "Does anyone else grow them in colder (zone 5 & 6) climates?" Fred, I don't know about their performance in colder climates, but here in zone 7 Gagea fibrosa is a reliable garden plant. Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed May 7 15:08:05 2008 Message-Id: <000a01c8b076$05be82a0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: FW: Gagea Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:10:23 -0400 Fred asked about Gagea fibrosa: "Did you raise yours by seed or bulblets?" Fred, I don't grow this plant. My friend Alice does grow it in nearby northern Virginia. Her plants came, I think, from Jane McGary years ago. I do have some seed in the fridge... Jim McKenney From totototo@telus.net Wed May 7 15:17:21 2008 Message-Id: <20080507191720.1BT0LFFJJR@priv-edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Potash: the key to Frit. imperialis Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:17:21 -0700 The late Doris Page, a brilliant light on the local horticultural scene, once told me that the secret to success with F. imperialis was to give them potash. I cannot say if this is true or not, but Doris generally knew what she was talking about and it might be worth trying if you like to experiment. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Wed May 7 15:17:25 2008 Message-Id: <20080507191719.BCNCW7BNKM@priv-edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Camassia Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:17:21 -0700 On 7 May 08, at 9:36, Diana Chapman wrote: > I don't know how to upload to the wiki, but I have just posted a > picture of a pink flowered Camassia leichtlinii on my blog: > www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. Has anyone ever seen a pink flowered > Camassia before? Mine originated in Oregon, and apparently the parent > population was wiped out by road widening. I once saw a "pink" Camassia in local park, but the hour was late, the sun low, and the light reddening, so just HOW pink it was, I do not know. It could have been either C. leichtlinii subsp. suksdorfii (the common large blue-violet camas found in the Puget Sound & Georgia Strait region) or C. quamash, the smaller one. If this "pink" camas I saw (or perhaps hallucinated) really was a pink, I suspect it was a rather dirty color. Camas seems to have two pigments which in combination give the deep violet common form, a blue and a dirty pink. Oddly enough, white- and pale blue-flowered forms are fairly common if you sniff around odd corners of the city, but heaven help you if you are so foolish as to bring these into your garden: they have the same propensity for abandoned self-sowing that Hyacinthoides does. And, worse, the bulbs go down to China and are very difficult (sc. impossible) to eradicate once established. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Wed May 7 15:17:27 2008 Message-Id: <20080507191720.77UEGF7SSP@priv-edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Trillium hibbersonii Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:17:21 -0700 This last weekend I was talking with a local botanist, Adolf Ceska about Trillium hibbersonii. He related two instances where local gardeners lost most or all of their stock after fertilizing it. Evidently the rule is, you feed it, you kill it. As soon as I hung up the phone, I went out and lifted my two tiny specimens and repotted them in a mixture of 75% pumice and 25% coarse granite sand. This accords with the way the late Albert de Mezey grew them, in what looked like trays of pure gravel. Those of you who have this plant, or who obtain it in the future, are hereby warned. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Wed May 7 15:17:28 2008 Message-Id: <20080507191719.B6S0W70VMR@priv-edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: missing snowdrop mystery solved Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 12:17:21 -0700 On 7 May 08, at 2:20, jegrace wrote: > And here I am trying in vain to grow Spanish bluebells.... > > LOL Just be careful; you may get what you pine for. And *then* no laughing, out loud or silent. Let me add that the exact identity of the common weedy Hyacinthoides around here (Victoria, BC) is not certain. I have a key to them from the Natural History Museum (UK) and really ought to go out and see where my pests fall. [That URL has a line break in it and may need to be stitched back together depending on your software.] -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Wed May 7 15:37:36 2008 Message-Id: <1269C70A-FE49-4F5E-87E1-E26461F10A25@tiscali.it> From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: Arisaema Thunbergii ssp. urashima picture Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:37:33 +0200 I added a new picture of a clump developed in the wood with may new small plants from mothertubers. May 2008 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/ ArisaemaSpeciesFive#thunbergii giorgio pozzi Tavedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Wed May 7 15:40:02 2008 Message-Id: <3EF15DDD-2A1B-41EC-BA6F-F11C511E5279@tiscali.it> From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: Fwd: Arisaema Thunbergii ssp. urashima picture Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:39:59 +0200 Inizio messaggio inoltrato: > Da: studio pozzi taubert > Data: 07 maggio 2008 21:37:33 GMT+02:00 > A: Pacific Bulb Society > Oggetto: Arisaema Thunbergii ssp. urashima picture > > I added a new picture of a clump developed in the wood with may new > small plants from mothertubers. May 2008 > > ArisaemaSpeciesFive#thunbergii> > > > giorgio pozzi Tavedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed May 7 15:38:12 2008 Message-Id: <000b01c8b07a$37fcc430$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: [SPAM] Potash: the key to Frit. imperialis Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:40:33 -0400 Roger Whitlock wrote: " The late Doris Page, a brilliant light on the local horticultural scene, once told me that the secret to success with F. imperialis was to give them potash." Is that by any chance potash as in sulfate of potash? I zeroed in to this earlier this year, thanks to a hint from another source. However, sulfate of potash does not seem to be available in the retail trade in this area. Or at least I have not found a source. Telephone calls to several local "nurseries" assured me that it was available. Delighted to hear that, I ordered several five pound bags. Every time I did this, when I went in to pick up the sulfate of potash, it turned out to be muriate of potash: not the same thing. The weak excuse given in each case: our supplier said it was the same thing. Also disappearing from the local scene: fertilizers with over-the-top phosphate levels. One I bought last year had the formula 10-52-10. Local concern about the explosive growth of algae in Chesapeake Bay (fueled by the high phosphate levels in runoff draining into the bay) have apparently nixed local sales of such formulations. Jim McKenney From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed May 7 15:41:35 2008 Message-Id: <004e01c8b07a$590ef3f0$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Potash: the key to Frit. imperialis Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 15:41:30 -0400 I'm sure a lot of the things mentioned factor into long term success and growth of thriving plants. The problem that I think most of us face is the incredibly rapid demise of apparently healthy bulbs. I think this can only be ascribed to something catastrophic like rapid rotting. J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed May 7 16:39:20 2008 Message-Id: <16418373.73921210192721452.JavaMail.www@wwinf1533> From: Mark BROWN Subject: [SPAM]  Potash: the key to Frit. imperialis Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:38:41 +0200 (CEST) Could not wood ash be a good substitute? > Message du 07/05/08 21:38 > De : "Jim McKenney" > A : "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] [SPAM] Potash: the key to Frit. imperialis > > Roger Whitlock wrote: " The late Doris Page, a brilliant light on the local > horticultural > scene, once told me that the secret to success with F. imperialis was > to give them potash." > > Is that by any chance potash as in sulfate of potash? > > I zeroed in to this earlier this year, thanks to a hint from another source. > > > However, sulfate of potash does not seem to be available in the retail trade > in this area. Or at least I have not found a source. Telephone calls to > several local "nurseries" assured me that it was available. Delighted to > hear that, I ordered several five pound bags. > > Every time I did this, when I went in to pick up the sulfate of potash, it > turned out to be muriate of potash: not the same thing. > > The weak excuse given in each case: our supplier said it was the same thing. > > > Also disappearing from the local scene: fertilizers with over-the-top > phosphate levels. One I bought last year had the formula 10-52-10. Local > concern about the explosive growth of algae in Chesapeake Bay (fueled by the > high phosphate levels in runoff draining into the bay) have apparently nixed > local sales of such formulations. > > > Jim McKenney > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Wed May 7 16:39:43 2008 Message-Id: <01b901c8b082$62a13bf0$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: FRITILLARIA IMPERIALIS Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:39:01 +0100 This very large species, which incidentally smells like fox pee should never be grown under the shade of trees, any trees as they are best grown, like so much else by mimicking as far as possible their natural habitat. As with their close relative Frit. eduardii these two species grown on open unforested mountainsides from the eastern most parts of Kurdistan - straddling Iraq, Turkey and Iran, across Iran non desert regions and as far as Afghanistan, they are also reported from the very western end of the Himalaya including Indian and Pakistani controlled Kashmir. The soil absolutely must be free draining not just inclined that way with a pH neither to high nor too low. I suspect the plants of both species which we grown here are at the most northern limit for success, circa 58 degrees north. They do not "do" high rainfall areas or grown in which water might lay for however short a period. ideally if in doubt make sure the ground is sloping to avoid any risk of waterlogging and rot which follows. One of the major mistakes is to constantly work from splitting bulbs rather than renewing stock by seed. As with lilies once infected by whatever this just keeps getting passed on and around. I get a feeling from this thread some folk may be working with infected stock and are therefore on a hiding to nothing. Sow the seed, plant out the resulting bubs on clean ground, things should improve providing the other issues are dealt with. I also believe depth of planted bulbs is another important issue, they need, here at least, to be down at around 20 cms. Neither species is a woodland plant, certainly not from climates affected by oceanic influences, I really struggle with them but they do work for me, they are as hard as nails and here in northern Scotland our crude USDA hardiness equivalent might be circa 6. Frit. eduardii is by far the most beautiful to my eyes and also the easiest with lovely big chunky bulbs which even I can't kill. When splitting them I use a sharp knife cut across the base plate and produce four out from one, best done in the autumn. Over fed bulbs succumb to infections very quickly, these frits need to be grown hard and dry. Mine are growing in pure glaciated sand and gravel with a pH of 4.5 but they can take upto around 6.0 or so I am told. The also get a top dressing of well rotted leaf mould, 10 cms thick mostly birch, alder and oak but others no doubt would be OK too. They work on a short temperature heat sum gradient of 8 C x a relatively few days of 8 C to initiate onset of growth therefore it is important to guard against late frosts, I use a fleece if I think we might get a hard one and all of them are on a north facing slope to help guard against that. I haven't so far worked out the heat sum of 8 degrees C x X days @ 8 C as I am preoccupied with doing so for Lilium right now but my impression is that it is not a large number. Maybe some day when time allows if I haven't lost the plot before hand. I hope this helps, Iain From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Wed May 7 16:41:13 2008 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0BC6EF8E@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: FW: Gagea Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:42:16 -0500 Hi Fred: I would approach Gagea with the caution. They are widespread in the Caucasus and those populations were very weedy once they migrated to cultivated conditions at the St. Petersburg Botanical Garden as per a personal communication from Dr. Tatyana Shulkina. Tatyana was the curator of their living collections for many years. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org Subject: [pbs] FW: Gagea Does anyone know where to find these little lovelies? Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA USDA Zone 6b _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hornig@earthlink.net Wed May 7 16:54:10 2008 Message-Id: <855EC5A488A146B09E148C583A9E8678@ellenPC> From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: Fritillaria eduardii (was Re: FRITILLARIA IMPERIALIS) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:01:46 -0400 This must be another instance of my magic conditions allowing me to succeed where I should fail, but I've had Frit. eduardii in the garden for may years now - probably 8-10 or so - and it's done splendidly well, blooming beautifully and, this year, even setting seed (we had a warm spell when it bloomed, and consequently bee activity). I actually have two groupings of it, one at the top of a slope, the other part way down on a different slope. Late frosts/freezes are always a threat - this year they spent two nights enveloped in Remay - but the worst an unprotected freeze has ever done is disfigure the plants and flowers (which is why I now cover). I haven't lifted, split, or otherwise molested them in all these years, nor have I fertilized. My soil is generally a clayey loam, perhaps slightly acidic (it varies). As more people have heard than want to by now, the distinguishing feature of my climate here is excellent winter snow cover (totaling 10-12 feet per season). Oswego is fairly far north in the US: latitude is 43°28'N (longitude 076°30'W ). On a different topic, I've grown Alstroemeria presliana ssp. australis here for many years as well (probably 12) - it does beautifully in the open garden (no south wall), and it isn't invasive like A. aurea, which I keep trapped between the south-facing foundation of the house and the adjacent driveway. When I got seeds of that one from a garden at Cornell U, long ago, the gardener said "sure, you can have some, but you'll be sorry!" And to some extent he was right. But it's hard not to love them when they bloom. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com From jshields@indy.net Wed May 7 17:06:33 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080507170008.03afeb70@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Potash Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 17:06:20 -0400 Hi all, "Potash" literally is the potassium-containing residue after wood is burned. It is initially potassium oxide, which when mixed with water becomes potassium hydroxide, a very strong alkali. As it ages in air, it is converted to potassium carbonate by reacting with CO2 in the air. This is only slightly better than potassium oxide; you still get a very high, alkaline pH when it mixes with water. Using "potash" when one means "potassium" (the chemical element) can get you into lots of trouble. "Sulfate of potash" is correctly called potassium sulfate. "Muriate of potash" is potassium chloride; all that chloride is not good for some plants. You can of course order potassium sulfate from a scientific supply house, at a healthy price per pound. Try Daigger.com on the WWW. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed May 7 18:29:57 2008 Message-Id: <001201c8b092$36f8fbe0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Potash Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 18:32:19 -0400 Jim Shields, if you don't mind, let's continue the inorganic chemistry lesson. If, as you say, potash is literally the potassium containing residue of burned wood, are there such things as sulfate of potash and muriate of potash? And if so, are they different in some way from potassium sulfate and potassium chloride? I'm not asking you if the names exist - we already know that these terms are common, at least in the older gardening literature. I'm asking if there is such a thing as sulfate of potash which is distinct from potassium sulfate and a muriate of potash which is distinct from potassium chloride. For instance, is it ever correct to use the terms sulfate of potash and muriate of potash to name fertilizers? Are these names vestiges of older processes which began with potash in the literal sense to produce crude, unrefined potassium sulfate or potassium chloride? If so, what should I be asking for to purchase the crude, unrefined potassium sulfate? In addition to that, there is this. I did a little bit of homework before I went potassium shopping. I discovered what to me is a bizarre anomaly: retail gardening products are sold on the basis of potassium oxide percentage. What makes that bizarre to me is that such products do not contain potassium oxide (or do they?). Is the idea that you are buying something which is the equivalent of a raw potassium source which would yield so much potassium oxide upon burning? Curiously (to my sensibilities at least) the potassium oxide "content" on the retail products is in big print; you have to read the fine print to find out what the real source of the potassium is. Help me out here! Jim McKenney From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed May 7 18:42:10 2008 Message-Id: <48223031.1020907@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Potash Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 15:41:53 -0700 Glenn Callcott, the list-owner of the Worsleya list, swears by sulphate of potash/potassium sulfate in making his Worsleyas bloom every year, as well as grow very healthily. Some one else somewhere says that Hippeastrums like it as well. So I searched for it; found regular sources for 5 lb and 50 lb bags on eBay. (But the 50 lb source wants approx $50 for shipping!) So I decided to do a hunt around the greater metropolitan L.A. area, only to discover that, once again, my favorite commercial agricultural supply store, that sells in bulk quantities to farmers, carries it for only about $25 per 50 lb bag. (They also sell my favorite brand, Apex, of time-release fertilizers in various formulations, very cheaply.) However all their stores lie on the perimeter of the metropolitan area, so they are all 50 miles away from me or further. So once a year I make the drive to buy all my bulk supplies from them and this year added potassium sulfate to my list. We'll see how my Worsleya and Hipps do. I'm not even going to try Frit. imperialis, no matter how impressive and desirable it looks! --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a J.E. Shields wrote: > Hi all, > > "Potash" literally is the potassium-containing residue after wood is > burned. It is initially potassium oxide, which when mixed with water > becomes potassium hydroxide, a very strong alkali. As it ages in air, it > is converted to potassium carbonate by reacting with CO2 in the air. This > is only slightly better than potassium oxide; you still get a very high, > alkaline pH when it mixes with water. > > Using "potash" when one means "potassium" (the chemical element) can get > you into lots of trouble. "Sulfate of potash" is correctly called > potassium sulfate. "Muriate of potash" is potassium chloride; all that > chloride is not good for some plants. > > You can of course order potassium sulfate from a scientific supply house, > at a healthy price per pound. Try Daigger.com on the WWW. > > Jim Shields > > > > From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed May 7 19:01:42 2008 Message-Id: <482234C1.7060405@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Potash Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 16:01:21 -0700 I think we had this discussion once before quite a while ago. Once again, the U.S. seems to be sticking to a standard that is completely different from (and less logical than) what the rest of the world uses. The Australians clued me into this by pointing out that our 3-number description of common fertilizer strengths seemed oddly out of proportion to what they were accustomed to. Then I recalled that the label on my bag of Apex time-release fertilizer always had a split label, kind of like a bilingual label, only both sides were in English. One side is the typical American style numbers, for example: 12-6-12. The other side is subtitled "Elemental and Metric" and the three numbers are: 12-2.5-9.9. Down near the bottom in the "Guaranteed Analysis" sections, on the American side it says, quote: Total Nitrogen (N)...........12.00% Available Phosphate (P2O5)....6.00% Soluble Potash (K2O).........12.00% unquote. On the "metric" side it says, quote: Total Nitrogen (N)...........12.00% Total Phosphorus (P)..........2.50% Total Potassium (K)...........9.90% unquote. And as you noted, the sources of these three are: Urea, Ammonium phosphate, and Potassium nitrate, and there is no K2O. I don't know any reasons other than historical for the U.S. way of doing this. And I can't see any reason why we continue using it when no one else does, and we, even in the U.S., want to know what the N-P-K analysis is, not the N-P2O5-K2O analysis (which is what we get in this country). --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a Jim McKenney wrote: > In addition to that, there is this. I did a little bit of homework before I > went potassium shopping. I discovered what to me is a bizarre anomaly: > retail gardening products are sold on the basis of potassium oxide > percentage. What makes that bizarre to me is that such products do not > contain potassium oxide (or do they?). Is the idea that you are buying > something which is the equivalent of a raw potassium source which would > yield so much potassium oxide upon burning? Curiously (to my sensibilities > at least) the potassium oxide "content" on the retail products is in big > print; you have to read the fine print to find out what the real source of > the potassium is. > > Help me out here! > > Jim McKenney > > > From Pelarg@aol.com Wed May 7 19:13:53 2008 Message-Id: From: Pelarg@aol.com Subject: Camassia Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:14:06 EDT Hi Diana, I got a bulb of the pink Camassia from "Buggy Crazy" (love that name) last fall, it opened its first flowers this morning. What surprises me is that this one bulb has five flower spikes on it. The pink is a pale shade of pink, nice but not what I would call bright pink. Ernie DeMarie NY blog: _www.geraniosgarden.blogspot.com_ (http://www.geraniosgarden.blogspot.com) **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From jshields104@comcast.net Wed May 7 19:15:13 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080507185953.03b2ae08@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Potash Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 19:14:59 -0400 Jim McK., I'm happy to oblige. What we are seeing here is cultural (not to mention scientific) lag. Using "potash" in place of the proper name for the element, potassium, is left over from the 18th century. Which seems to be about where some horticulturists and all gardening magazines still reside. (Ouch!) The terms "sulphate of potash" and "muriate of potash" are simply archaic names for potassium sulfate and potassium chloride. There is no "potash" (K2O) hidden in the sulfate. Personally, I have a heck of a time figuring out what the N-P-K numbers ought to be for chemicals like potassium nitrate, ammonium phosphate, etc. When I mix my own from lab chemicals, I end up with the metric numbers, not the silly American fictions. You can tell the difference between cheap and premium fertilizers by reading that fine print. If they use potassium chloride (KCl) as the source of potassium, it's cheap stuff. If they use sodium phosphate, it is even worse quality (and even cheaper). Jim, I'll go off on a tangential rant if I don't quit now! If you have any more questions, drop me a note later. Best to all, Jim Shields ranting and raving in central Indiana (USA) over the scientific illiteracy of certain parts of the world At 06:32 PM 5/7/2008 -0400, you wrote: >Jim Shields, if you don't mind, let's continue the inorganic chemistry >lesson. > >If, as you say, potash is literally the potassium containing residue of >burned wood, are there such things as sulfate of potash and muriate of >potash? And if so, are they different in some way from potassium sulfate and >potassium chloride? I'm not asking you if the names exist - we already know >that these terms are common, at least in the older gardening literature. I'm >asking if there is such a thing as sulfate of potash which is distinct from >potassium sulfate and a muriate of potash which is distinct from potassium >chloride. >....... >Jim McKenney ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed May 7 19:22:51 2008 Message-Id: <001301c8b099$9cbbb010$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Potash Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:25:17 -0400 Thanks, Jim Shields, and thanks Lee for those contributions. Jim Shields, I can't believe that you might be concerned that I of all people would object to someone's going off on a tangential rant! Cheers everyone, Jim McKenney From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed May 7 20:28:04 2008 Message-Id: <482248E7.8010607@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Potash Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 20:27:19 -0400 Ian Young has recommend potash for bulbs on his Bulb log found on the Scottish Rock Garden site. He feeds all his bulbs just after flowering. Check the Bulb log and now it is searchable. http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/bulblog.html Arnold From JmsJon664@aol.com Wed May 7 20:40:23 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7EBB34F783CF-E0C-38D4@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Obliging geophytes Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 20:40:11 -0400 I have another bulbous species to mention, rather an easy one to overlook: Geranium tuberosum.  Sparse, relatively small pink flowers are borne right now, 12" above quite nice foliage; dormancy ensues in 3 or 4 weeks.  It does perfectly well in a sunny, well-drained position.  I haven't been strongly motivated to try it elsewhere in the past but more recent efforts have worked out well enough. Along with other respondents I struggle to control Chionodoxa lucillae and Endymion non-scriptus, at the same time quite enjoying the show in proper season.  Nonetheless, too much has gotten to be too much and has prompted me to get an ultimate weapon: a shovel (perhaps a post-hole digger?  I didn't take in its nominal identification) that is 16" long and 5" wide, compared with the 10" x 7" of my more typical spade.  Those extra 6 inches are enough to get down to the bulb zone, loosening the soil sufficiently that the bulbs can be eased out intact.  Disruption can be kept fairly minimal. Jim Jones Lexington, MA Z5-6 From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed May 7 21:12:50 2008 Message-Id: <4822535E.30409@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: [SPAM] Potash: the key to Frit. imperialis Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 21:11:58 -0400 Jim: I have sought out Sulfate of Potash here in N. New Jersey after seeing Ian Young's glowing praise of it. I was convinced to substitute Muriate of Potash once but never again. I found the Sulfate of Potash and it was manufactured by Espoma. www.espoma.com I picked up something different last time and it was "Epsom Plus". Listed as 0-0-22, derived from Sulfate of Potash Magnesia. Arnold From Clayton3120@cablespeed.com Wed May 7 21:43:02 2008 Message-Id: <001201c8b0ac$93cf9ee0$0a428f18@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Clayton3120" Subject: Spanish bluebells Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 18:41:02 -0700 Jim, UMMMMMMMMMMMm, we won't go there with the word 'challenge' looming in the midst, but I will send a large quantity of Bluebells for the exchange. I'm snickering here, because I find it hard to believe their's a demand for them. They are SUCH a weed here, but... WHATEVER! ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Spanish bluebells > >Jim, Spanish Bluebells are in FULL boloom right now. Not the time to be >>digging them, however, the woods across the lane from me is carpeted with >>them. >>What colors do you want? Shall I send a semi full of them? > > Dear Clayton, > Speaking for Dell and the BX, as soon as they are dormant > enough and diggable, send them to Dell and keep on until he says > 'Uncle" and gives up. I'lll send in my order right away. White, > pink, blue, day-glo, any color! > > Do you feel like a challenge? Best Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From eez55@earthlink.net Wed May 7 22:23:38 2008 Message-Id: <380-2200854822332453@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Toxicity of Boophone disticha Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:23:32 -0400 In Wild Flowers of South Africa for the Garden (1971), Una van der Spuy writes (concerning B. disticha) "The name of 'Sore Eye Flower' is apt, because if one is near the open flower in a confined space, one's eyes do become sore and one's head may begin to ache too." Gene Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA > [Original Message] > From: Rhoda and Cameron McMaster > To: > Date: 5/6/2008 3:28:12 AM > Subject: [pbs] Toxicity of Boophone disticha > > Hi. > > While the toxicity of Boophone pollen is being discussed I thought it would be interesting to note that if close enough to the plant it will have similar effects. The well known botanical artist, Dr Auriol Batten recounts how when painting the plant from a fresh flower, she developed a headache, drowsiness and sore eyes. In fact one of its common names in South Africa is "Sore Eye Flower". The bulb is extremely poisonous and was used as an ingredient in the arrow and fish poison concocted by the San and Khoi Hunter-Gatherers in past eras. The remarkable properties of this bulb were highlighted by the discovery by Johan Binneman of a mummified body of a San hunter in the Kouga mountains in 1998. As reported in the organ of the Archaeological Society of SA, "The Digging Stick" Vol.16 No.2 in April 1999, he discovered the body in a cave carefully wrapped in the scales of Boophone disticha bulbs. So toxic were the bulbs scales that the wrapping had kept the 2000 year-old > body in a well preserved state, protecting it from insects and flesh eating organisms. The mummy is now housed in the Albany Museum. > > > Cameron McMaster > From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu May 8 02:28:09 2008 Message-Id: <00b301c8b0d4$adc78ab0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Spanish bluebells Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 07:28:05 +0100 'Spanish bluebell' is a dirty 'word' here in the UK, where Hyacinthoides hispanicus is highly successful and hybridises with the native H. non-scriptus to form H. x massartiana. This is perceived by conservationists as being a threat to our native species and the issue has received a huge amount of media coverage and has sunk into public's perception, probably because of its inherent xenophobia ("Bloody foreigners coming over 'ere and pollinating our bluebells..."). It is extraordinary how often visitors to the garden here will say, on hearing that bluebells succeed the snowdrops, 'I hope you don't have any Spanish ones', even though they would probably not be able to tell the difference. Of course we do - no 19th C garden would not have, and a multicoloured array of hybrids too - but we also have masses of unadulterated natives, and on the Colesbourne estate are woods currently blue by the acre with them. (If you have never seen an English bluebell wood it is one of the botanical sights of the world). Personally, I think the issue is grossly overexaggerated - no doubt there are areas where hybrids outnumber natives, especially in urban areas, but it seems highly improbable that the dreaded hybrids are going to take over every wood in the country. There are plenty of further scare stories though: global warming will cause the bluebells to die out because the leaves come on the trees earlier & thus shade out the bluebells (perhaps the bluebells may come into growth earlier?) and wicked commercial bulb dealers will strip every wood in the country for gardeners to plant natives. This 'threat' was specifically legislated against in 1998, despite the fact that there must be thousands of acres of woods that could be harvested sustainably. From a horticultural viewpoint, though, I can't imagine why anyone would risk their garden by deliberately planting H. hispanicus - it really is an ineradicable thug. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From prallen2@peoplepc.com Thu May 8 02:38:33 2008 Message-Id: <12413026.1210228707265.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: patty allen Subject: Spanish bluebells Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 02:38:26 -0400 (EDT) John, Personally, I would love to see you post a photo of an "English Bluebell wood". Sounds like it would be as beautiful as a field of "Texas Bluebonnets". Cheers, Patty Allen Humble, Texas USA -----Original Message----- >From: John Grimshaw >Sent: May 8, 2008 2:28 AM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Spanish bluebells > >'Spanish bluebell' is a dirty 'word' here in the UK, where Hyacinthoides >hispanicus is highly successful and hybridises with the native H. >non-scriptus to form H. x massartiana. This is perceived by conservationists >as being a threat to our native species and the issue has received a huge >amount of media coverage and has sunk into public's perception, probably >because of its inherent xenophobia ("Bloody foreigners coming over 'ere and >pollinating our bluebells..."). It is extraordinary how often visitors to >the garden here will say, on hearing that bluebells succeed the snowdrops, >'I hope you don't have any Spanish ones', even though they would probably >not be able to tell the difference. Of course we do - no 19th C garden would >not have, and a multicoloured array of hybrids too - but we also have masses >of unadulterated natives, and on the Colesbourne estate are woods currently >blue by the acre with them. (If you have never seen an English bluebell wood >it is one of the botanical sights of the world). > >Personally, I think the issue is grossly overexaggerated - no doubt there >are areas where hybrids outnumber natives, especially in urban areas, but it >seems highly improbable that the dreaded hybrids are going to take over >every wood in the country. There are plenty of further scare stories though: >global warming will cause the bluebells to die out because the leaves come >on the trees earlier & thus shade out the bluebells (perhaps the bluebells >may come into growth earlier?) and wicked commercial bulb dealers will strip >every wood in the country for gardeners to plant natives. This 'threat' was >specifically legislated against in 1998, despite the fact that there must be >thousands of acres of woods that could be harvested sustainably. > >From a horticultural viewpoint, though, I can't imagine why anyone would >risk their garden by deliberately planting H. hispanicus - it really is an >ineradicable thug. > >John Grimshaw > > >Dr John M. Grimshaw >Sycamore Cottage >Colesbourne >Nr Cheltenham >Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > >Tel. 01242 870567 > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Thu May 8 05:01:47 2008 Message-Id: <009901c8b0ea$24fe2390$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: N:P:K and the rest Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:01:44 +0100 It is a relief to see Americans themselves ranting about the risible out of date and confusing terminologies in use in the USA. In Europe we scratch our heads in dismay but fear to tread for risk of upsetting sensibilities amongst our cousins on that side of the pond. There is here an absolute legal requirement for standardised clarity in all chemical marketing, whether for fertilisers or whatever. Artificial fertilisers are cited as being N:P:K: +Trace as appropriate. Currently I am trialling liquid fertiliser derived from sea weed and we are getting some seriously good results pro tem but it is early days yet. A good general all rounder is 10: 12: 10 ; 12:12:10, etc or variations around that theme depending on what the objective is, some of the figures quoted on this thread for N & especially P seem off the mark. For some time after the WWW2 our farmers were guilty of massive over use of Nitrates leading to huge problems in both fresh water bodies, rivers and ultimately the sea. That has now been reigned in not before time too. Drinking water from ground extraction in limestone areas and others such as Holland has become dangerously contaminated with Nitrates for human consumption. Out of sight out of mind has now come back to haunt many. Over fertilising is well known to create soft tissue, too much N equates to lots of foliage but poor flowering in many instances. I suggest folks pay close attention to Jim Shields as he clearly has a handle on the subject. As a former Forestry Consultant who still receives literature from the industry, "you can tak a forester oot o' the forest but you cannae tak the forest oot o' a forester", in which we read that the Canadians when shipping timber to the USA are required to change their dimensions and quotes back into imperial feet and inches from the world wide standard of metres and centimetres, the Canucks having joined the rest of the world years ago. WHY? We still use gallons in the UK however ever it is fading as there are 5 litres, more or less, per Imperial gallon whereas I think US gallons are around 4 litres. Our liquid fertiliser or soluble fertiliser is supplied with conversion and usage rates per litre, all nice and simple. Being a basic Highland country boy for the likes of us potash = wood ash but then we don't have an over reliance on OIL for heating and everything else. Recently statistics [NEW SCIENTIST] shows that citizens of the USA require reliance on 7 metric tonnes of carbon per annum, whereas citizens of countries in Europe require reliance on 3 metric tonnes. I am not a total believer in man only induced global warming but those figures do say something. Our fire ash from the central heating and cooking stove here is taken out and spread on the garden, whence presumably ? the old saw, "ashes to ashes" Iain From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed May 7 19:48:50 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080508044158.016d1f20@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: FW: Gagea Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 04:45:26 -0700 Fred asked about Gagea. I grow several species of this very "minor" bulb, which is related to Tulipa. The genus is very widespread from Mediterranean Europe to northeast Asia. Most are yellow-flowered but a few (e.g., G. graeca) are white. They are very easy to grow from seed, which can be obtained from the Archibalds or the NARGS and other major seed exchanges. However, a couple of years ago I donated seed of G. fibrosa to NARGS, and it looked like nobody ordered it, because we were doing the mailing and all of it was left over. Although little-known and small-flowered, gageas can be charming when they build up a good mass of bulbs in a small pot, trough, or open site on the rock garden; in nature, they are usually seen as scattered individuals. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed May 7 19:48:55 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080508044926.0171c3f8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Hardy Alstroemeria Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 04:54:50 -0700 Luc wrote, "Alstroemeria patagonica replaces A. aurea to the south. It is the most austral of all members of the genus." That is a misleading statement because A. patagonica is extremely different from A. aurea and indeed any other species (it was once placed in a monotypic genus, Schickendantzia). It requires rather specialized treatment; in particular, it resents disturbance extremely. he wrote: >Among the populations of A. ligtu, its ssp. incarnata occurs at the higher >elevation (up to 2000m) in the Central Cordillera (Region O'Higgins and >Maule) and should be considered. I grow this subspecies from seed I collected in said area and find it quite hardy and floriferous in my rather cold, very wet garden, though on a high berm of sand and gravel. >Other species from the Central cordillera includes A. exerens, A. >pseudospathulata, A. umbellata, A. versicolor, A. andina, A. pallida and >A. spathulata... I grow these in the bulb frame as I feel they might be very moisture-sensitive in winter, though some (e.g., A. exserens, note spelling) are high-elevation dwellers. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu May 8 08:14:48 2008 Message-Id: <002601c8b104$fdcf0e90$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Spanish bluebells Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 13:13:55 +0100 Jim McKenney has rivately poiinted out that I have been using a masculine instead of feminine ending on the specific ethithets in Hyacinthoides. They should be hispanica, non-scripta, italica, etc. Apologies. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu May 8 09:20:53 2008 Message-Id: <000401c8b10e$ae81cda0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spanish bluebells Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:23:17 -0400 Here's the rest of the story. Actually, I didn't point out anything to John; I asked him when it had changed. Every time I hear some horticultural maven dun the gardening public about learning botanical names "because they don't change", I grit my teeth. Of course they change, and since the proceedings which result in those changes take place in a venue or format, if not exactly sub rosa, at least not easily monitored or accessed by the gardening public, it all tends to have an aura of mystery about it. Or it does for me. This word hyacinthoides is grammatically gender ambiguous. Thus, although I know a bit of Greek, that does not help me with the use of this word in a botanical context. If I were writing a letter in Latin, Hyacinthoides hispanicus would be grammatically correct. If, in that same letter, I had been describing the Spanish bluebell, it would be botanically incorrect. During my lifetime alone the specific epithets of this group have gone from feminine (when they were members of Scilla) to masculine (when they were Endymion) and now back to feminine again in Hyacinthoides. And with the recent re-working of Scilla, there are more new combinations and gender changes to learn. And who is to say that some botanist will not hit on some reason to change the name formally to masculine? It happened with Panax, didn't it? If any of you are thinking "how does Jim remember all this stuff?", the answer might surprise you: I don't remember any of it. That's what books are for. When I mentioned Hyacinthoides hispanica in a recent post or by line, you'd better believe I checked my references before posting. Ask me next month about the gender of Hyacinthoides: I'll probably give you a blank stare and mumble something like "I'll have to check..." Jim McKenney From LucGBulot@aol.com Thu May 8 10:23:30 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7F2E28DFECDA-14F8-110B@mblk-d34.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Alstroemeria patagonica and Schickendantzia Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 10:23:04 -0400 Dear Jane, I will take advantage of this answer to your post in order to clarify some points of my original mail on hardy Alstroemeria. Before starting my post I should also mentionned your most interesting contribution to the "dwarf Alstroemerias" that I found in the pbs archives that can be found at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-June/014474.html You wrote: That is a misleading statement because A. patagonica is extremely different from A. aurea and indeed any other species (it was once placed in a monotypic genus, Schickendantzia). I never meant that Alsteomeria aurea is the same species as Altroemeria patagonica. They are perfectly distinct (Bayer, 1987; Muñoz Schick & Moreira Muñoz 2003). When I wrote that A. patagonica replaces A. aurea in southernmost Chile (and adjacent regions of Argentina), I only wanted to point out that A. patagonica is the southernmost species of Alstroemeria (Ultima Esperanza, Magallanes and Tierra del Furgo Regions) and that its geographical range does not overlap with A. aurea (see distribution maps in Muñoz Schick & Moreira Muñoz 2003). Schickendantzia was originaly introduced as a monotypic genus by Pax (1889 - sometimes quoted 1890) based on S. hieronymi first described by the same author after argentinean plants from the Tucuman and Catamarca region. Speggazini (1903, 1907) considered that the peruvian species A. pygmaea Herbert is a junior subjective synonym of  S. hieronymi and as a consequence A. pygmaea should therefore be considered as the type species of Schikendantzia. Most recently Sanso & Xifreda (1999), after reevaluation of the status of S. pygmaea, showed that Schickendantzia should be considered as a junior subjective synonym of Alstroelmeria. According to these authors: "Morphological and anatomical investigations confirm the reduction of Schickendantzia Pax to Alstroemeria L. Schickendantzia pygmaea (Herb.) Speg., a small herb growing in the Andean mountains, 3500-4400 m above sea level, was first described in the genus Alstroemeria. Particularly valuable in determining the correct taxonomic position are: the presence of axile placentation, a trilocular ovary, two inner usually spotted, upper tepals, a rhizome with some fleshy-starchy white roots, a six-ribbed loculicidal capsule, umbonate towards the apex with explosive dehiscence, light brown and globose seeds, the outer integument of seed coat dry, with a sculptured surface, ballistic dispersal and pollen grains with striato-reticulate sexine". This view seems to be accepted since by most, if not all, botanists working on South American floras. Moreover chromosome studies on Andean Alstroemeria by Sanso (2002) has shown that karyotypes of A. andina ssp. venustula and A. pygmaea revealed similarity to all other analysed taxa (A. hookeri ssp. cummingiana, A. hookeri ssp. recumbens, A. pallida, A. patagonica and A. pseudospathulata). Thus, to all existing arguments for not retaining Schickendantzia as a separate genus, the karyotype analysis merges A. pygmaea with other Alstroemeria species, and does not support its taxonomic uniqueness in a separate genus. Additional arguments based on cladistic analysis is to be found in Aagesen & Sanso (2003). To my knowledge the only other species that was formaly included in Schickendantzia is S. trichosepala Speggazini. As far as I know A. patagonica (syn. A. nana according to Bayer, 1987) was never formaly included in Schikendantzia, even if Hofreiter & Rodríguez (2006, p. 20) mentioned in their taxonomic notes about A. pygmaea that "the next relative is the very similar A. patagonica". Soory for the long and most likely boring taxonomic discussion but I thought that it could be of interest to some of us... Luc Selected references. Aagesen L. & Sanso A. M. 2003. The Phylogeny of the Alstroemeriaceae, based on Morphology, rps16 Intron, and rbcL Sequence Data. Systematic botany, vol. 29 (1), pp. 47-69. Bayer E. 1987. Die gattung Alstroemeria in Chile. Mitteilungen der Botanischen Staatssammlung. München 24: 1–362. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Hofreiter & Rodriguez 2006. The Alstroemeriaceae in Peru and neighbouring areas. Revista peruana de biologia, Vol. 13 (1), pp. 5-69. Muñoz Schick, M. & Moreira Muñoz, A. 2003. Alstroemerias de Chile. Santiago. Chile. Sanso A. M. 2002. Chromosome studies in Andean taxa of Alstroemeria (Alstroemeriaceae). Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, vol. 138 (4), 451–459. Sanso A. M. & Xifreda C. C. 1999. The Synonymy of Schickendantzia with Alstroemeria (Alstroemeriaceae). In: Morphology, Anatomy and Systematics at the Centenary of Wilhelm Troll's Birth, Systematics and Geography of Plants, Vol. 68, No. 1/2,  (1999), pp. 315-323. Schickendantzia was originaly introduced as a monotypic genus by Pax (1889 - sometimes quoted 1890) based on S. hieronymi first described by the same author after argentinean plants from the Tucuman and Catamarca region. Speggazini (1903, 1907) considered that the peruvian species A. pygmaea Herbert is a junior subjective synonym of  S. hieronymi and as a consequence A. pygmaea should therefore be considered as the type species of Schikendantzia. Most recently Sanso & Xifreda (1999), after reevaluation of the status of S. pygmaea, showed that Schickendantzia should be considered as a junior subjective synonym of Alstroelmeria. According to these authors: "Morphological and anatomical investigations confirm the reduction of Schickendantzia Pax to Alstroemeria L. Schickendantzia pygmaea (Herb.) Speg., a small herb growing in the Andean mountains, 3500-4400 m above sea level, was first described in the genus Alstroemeria. Particularly valuable in determining the correct taxonomic position are: the presence of axile placentation, a trilocular ovary, two inner usually spotted, upper tepals, a rhizome with some fleshy-starchy white roots, a six-ribbed loculicidal capsule, umbonate towards the apex with explosive dehiscence, light brown and globose seeds, the outer integument of seed coat dry, with a sculptured surface, ballistic dispersal and pollen grains with striato-reticulate sexine". This view seems to be accepted since by most, if not all, botanists working on South American floras. Moreover chromosome studies on Andean Alstroemeria by Sanso (2002) has shown that karyotypes of A. andina ssp. venustula and A. pygmaea revealed similarity to all other analysed taxa (A. hookeri ssp. cummingiana, A. hookeri ssp. recumbens, A. pallida, A. patagonica and A. pseudospathulata). Thus, to all existing arguments for not retaining Schickendantzia as a separate genus, the karyotype analysis merges A. pygmaea with other Alstroemeria species, and does not support its taxonomic uniqueness in a separate genus. Additional arguments based on cladistic analysis is to be found in Aagesen & Sanso (2003). To my knowledge the only other species that was formaly included in Schickendantzia is S. trichosepala Speggazini. As far as I know A. patagonica (syn. A. nana according to Bayer, 1987) was never formaly included in Schikendantzia, even if Hofreiter & Rodríguez (2006, p. 20) mentioned in their taxonomic notes about A. pygmaea that "the next relative is the very similar A. patagonica". Soory for the long and most likely boring taxonomic discussion but I thought that it could be of interest to some of us... Luc Selected references. Aagesen L. & Sanso A. M. 2003. The Phylogeny of the Alstroemeriaceae, based on Morphology, rps16 Intron, and rbcL Sequence Data. Systematic botany, vol. 29 (1), pp. 47-69. Bayer E. 1987. Die gattung Alstroemeria in Chile. Mitteilungen der Botanischen Staatssammlung. München 24: 1–362. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Hofreiter & Rodriguez 2006. The Alstroemeriaceae in Peru and neighbouring areas. Revista peruana de biologia, Vol. 13 (1), pp. 5-69. Muñoz Schick, M. & Moreira Muñoz, A. 2003. Alstroemerias de Chile. Santiago. Chile. Sanso A. M. 2002. Chromosome studies in Andean taxa of Alstroemeria (Alstroemeriaceae). Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, vol. 138 (4), 451–459. Sanso A. M. & Xifreda C. C. 1999. The Synonymy of Schickendantzia with Alstroemeria (Alstroemeriaceae). In: Morphology, Anatomy and Systematics at the Centenary of Wilhelm Troll's Birth, Systematics and Geography of Plants, Vol. 68, No. 1/2,  (1999), pp. 315-323. I never meant that Alsteomeria aurea is the same species as Altroemeria patagonica. They are perfectly distinct (Bayer, 1987; Muñoz Schick & Moreira Muñoz 2003). When I wrote that A. patagonica replaces A. aurea in southernmost Chile (and adjacent regions of Argentina), I only wanted to point out that A. patagonica is the southernmost species of Alstroemeria (Ultima Esperanza, Magallanes and Tierra del Furgo Regions) and that its geographical range does not overlap with A. aurea (see distribution maps in Muñoz Schick & Moreira Muñoz 2003). Schickendantzia was originaly introduced as a monotypic genus by Pax (1889 - sometimes quoted 1890) based on S. hieronymi first described by the same author after argentinean plants from the Tucuman and Catamarca region. Speggazini (1903, 1907) considered that the peruvian species A. pygmaea Herbert is a junior subjective synonym of  S. hieronymi and as a consequence A. pygmaea should therefore be considered as the type species of Schikendantzia. Most recently Sanso & Xifreda (1999), after reevaluation of the status of S. pygmaea, showed that Schickendantzia should be considered as a junior subjective synonym of Alstroelmeria. According to these authors: "Morphological and anatomical investigations confirm the reduction of Schickendantzia Pax to Alstroemeria L. Schickendantzia pygmaea (Herb.) Speg., a small herb growing in the Andean mountains, 3500-4400 m above sea level, was first described in the genus Alstroemeria. Particularly valuable in determining the correct taxonomic position are: the presence of axile placentation, a trilocular ovary, two inner usually spotted, upper tepals, a rhizome with some fleshy-starchy white roots, a six-ribbed loculicidal capsule, umbonate towards the apex with explosive dehiscence, light brown and globose seeds, the outer integument of seed coat dry, with a sculptured surface, ballistic dispersal and pollen grains with striato-reticulate sexine". This view seems to be accepted since by most, if not all, botanists working on South American floras. Moreover chromosome studies on Andean Alstroemeria by Sanso (2002) has shown that karyotypes of A. andina ssp. venustula and A. pygmaea revealed similarity to all other analysed taxa (A. hookeri ssp. cummingiana, A. hookeri ssp. recumbens, A. pallida, A. patagonica and A. pseudospathulata). Thus, to all existing arguments for not retaining Schickendantzia as a separate genus, the karyotype analysis merges A. pygmaea with other Alstroemeria species, and does not support its taxonomic uniqueness in a separate genus. Additional arguments based on cladistic analysis is to be found in Aagesen & Sanso (2003). To my knowledge the only other species that was formaly included in Schickendantzia is S. trichosepala Speggazini. As far as I know A. patagonica (syn. A. nana according to Bayer, 1987) was never formaly included in Schikendantzia, even if Hofreiter & Rodríguez (2006, p. 20) mentioned in their taxonomic notes about A. pygmaea that "the next relative is the very similar A. patagonica". Soory for the long and most likely boring taxonomic discussion but I thought that it could be of interest to some of us... Luc Selected references. Aagesen L. & Sanso A. M. 2003. The Phylogeny of the Alstroemeriaceae, based on Morphology, rps16 Intron, and rbcL Sequence Data. Systematic botany, vol. 29 (1), pp. 47-69. Bayer E. 1987. Die gattung Alstroemeria in Chile. Mitteilungen der Botanischen Staatssammlung. München 24: 1–362. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Hofreiter & Rodriguez 2006. The Alstroemeriaceae in Peru and neighbouring areas. Revista peruana de biologia, Vol. 13 (1), pp. 5-69. Muñoz Schick, M. & Moreira Muñoz, A. 2003. Alstroemerias de Chile. Santiago. Chile. Sanso A. M. 2002. Chromosome studies in Andean taxa of Alstroemeria (Alstroemeriaceae). Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, vol. 138 (4), 451–459. Sanso A. M. & Xifreda C. C. 1999. The Synonymy of Schickendantzia with Alstroemeria (Alstroemeriaceae). In: Morphology, Anatomy and Systematics at the Centenary of Wilhelm Troll's Birth, Systematics and Geography of Plants, Vol. 68, No. 1/2,  (1999), pp. 315-323. Schickendantzia was originaly introduced as a monotypic genus by Pax (1889 - sometimes quoted 1890) based on S. hieronymi first described by the same author after argentinean plants from the Tucuman and Catamarca region. Speggazini (1903, 1907) considered that the peruvian species A. pygmaea Herbert is a junior subjective synonym of  S. hieronymi and as a consequence A. pygmaea should therefore be considered as the type species of Schikendantzia. Most recently Sanso & Xifreda (1999), after reevaluation of the status of S. pygmaea, showed that Schickendantzia should be considered as a junior subjective synonym of Alstroelmeria. According to these authors: "Morphological and anatomical investigations confirm the reduction of Schickendantzia Pax to Alstroemeria L. Schickendantzia pygmaea (Herb.) Speg., a small herb growing in the Andean mountains, 3500-4400 m above sea level, was first described in the genus Alstroemeria. Particularly valuable in determining the correct taxonomic position are: the presence of axile placentation, a trilocular ovary, two inner usually spotted, upper tepals, a rhizome with some fleshy-starchy white roots, a six-ribbed loculicidal capsule, umbonate towards the apex with explosive dehiscence, light brown and globose seeds, the outer integument of seed coat dry, with a sculptured surface, ballistic dispersal and pollen grains with striato-reticulate sexine". This view seems to be accepted since by most, if not all, botanists working on South American floras. Moreover chromosome studies on Andean Alstroemeria by Sanso (2002) has shown that karyotypes of A. andina ssp. venustula and A. pygmaea revealed similarity to all other analysed taxa (A. hookeri ssp. cummingiana, A. hookeri ssp. recumbens, A. pallida, A. patagonica and A. pseudospathulata). Thus, to all existing arguments for not retaining Schickendantzia as a separate genus, the karyotype analysis merges A. pygmaea with other Alstroemeria species, and does not support its taxonomic uniqueness in a separate genus. Additional arguments based on cladistic analysis is to be found in Aagesen & Sanso (2003). To my knowledge the only other species that was formaly included in Schickendantzia is S. trichosepala Speggazini. As far as I know A. patagonica (syn. A. nana according to Bayer, 1987) was never formaly included in Schikendantzia, even if Hofreiter & Rodríguez (2006, p. 20) mentioned in their taxonomic notes about A. pygmaea that "the next relative is the very similar A. patagonica". Soory for the long and most likely boring taxonomic discussion but I thought that it could be of interest to some of us... Luc Selected references. Aagesen L. & Sanso A. M. 2003. The Phylogeny of the Alstroemeriaceae, based on Morphology, rps16 Intron, and rbcL Sequence Data. Systematic botany, vol. 29 (1), pp. 47-69. Bayer E. 1987. Die gattung Alstroemeria in Chile. Mitteilungen der Botanischen Staatssammlung. München 24: 1–362. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae. James Ridgeway and Sons, London. Hofreiter & Rodriguez 2006. The Alstroemeriaceae in Peru and neighbouring areas. Revista peruana de biologia, Vol. 13 (1), pp. 5-69. Muñoz Schick, M. & Moreira Muñoz, A. 2003. Alstroemerias de Chile. Santiago. Chile. Sanso A. M. 2002. Chromosome studies in Andean taxa of Alstroemeria (Alstroemeriaceae). Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, vol. 138 (4), 451–459. Sanso A. M. & Xifreda C. C. 1999. The Synonymy of Schickendantzia with Alstroemeria (Alstroemeriaceae). In: Morphology, Anatomy and Systematics at the Centenary of Wilhelm Troll's Birth, Systematics and Geography of Plants, Vol. 68, No. 1/2,  (1999), pp. 315-323. From msittner@mcn.org Thu May 8 10:28:46 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080508071957.03583ee0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hyacinthoides non-scripta Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 07:28:20 -0700 Patty asks: >Personally, I would love to see you post a photo of an "English Bluebell >wood". I added a couple of pictures to the wiki after we visited the UK in 2005 and hiked in some place where they were in bloom. It was enchanting. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hyacinthoides I've taken pictures of the "Spanish Bluebells" we've been talking about since I noticed long ago that it wasn't on the wiki, but somehow have never gotten it added. In my northern California garden it is dependable, but not weedy. I'm not sure why it would increase more in other Pacific Northwest areas than it does here. Maybe mine are too shady. But once again what is a weed in some areas is not in another. I planted Alstroemeria that Roy Sach gave me and they rarely bloom, but do spread more than I'd like for a non blooming plant. I think we discussed why they might not do well for me and concluded they preferred better soil and more fertilizer. I'm not sure how you'd dig them out to the ground to share without damaging them but Carolyn can try. Mary Sue From LucGBulot@aol.com Thu May 8 10:31:00 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7F2F3EB4F4AA-14F8-11CB@mblk-d34.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : Alstroemeria patagonica and Schickendantzia Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 10:30:49 -0400 Oh my god !!! Seems that my message arrived in a funny way again !!! Is it ok ??? or shall I retype it ??? Luc From jshields104@comcast.net Thu May 8 10:36:52 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080508102929.0395e100@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Alstroemeria Non-hardy Hybrid Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 10:36:14 -0400 Hi all, We bought some small potted plants for the deck a year ago. Included was a small Alstroemeria hybrid that turned out to be evergreen. It seems that there are some hybrids on the market now that will stay green and perhaps even flowering all year round. This is almost a dwarf, less than a foot (30 cm) tall as I recall. I moved the planter into the greenhouse in autumn and let it go completely dry, expecting to have to nurse it through a dormant period. The Alstroemeria alone continued to stay green and tried to grow. Finally, I dug it out, divided it into 4 pieces, and replanted it into the container. I started watering it almost immediately, and it is growing and flowering again. This would certainly not be hardy over winter in my climate --central Indiana (Midwest USA), USDA cold zone 5. Still, the evergreen habit and nearly continuous flowering make it a very interesting plant! Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu May 8 10:35:25 2008 Message-Id: <000501c8b119$16f4cd60$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: : Alstroemeria patagonica and Schickendantzia Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:37:47 -0400 Luc, great information like that is worth reading several times! Jim McKenney From LucGBulot@aol.com Thu May 8 10:41:27 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7F308F95B962-14F8-129F@mblk-d34.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : Re : Alstroemeria patagonica and Schickendantzia Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 10:40:14 -0400 Thanks for the indulgence Jim... How many times the message got repeated when you received it ? 3 times for me... This aol mail processors drive me crazy sometimes !!! Luc PS. Marie Sue - it is not the copy/paste problem of the other time !!!! From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu May 8 11:04:40 2008 Message-Id: <185892.68482.qm@web84309.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: : Re : Alstroemeria patagonica and Schickendantzia Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Yes, at least three times. But I don't think each iteration was identical. Jim McKenney ----- Original Message ---- From: "lucgbulot@aol.com" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2008 10:40:14 AM Subject: [pbs] Re : Re : Alstroemeria patagonica and Schickendantzia Thanks for the indulgence Jim... How many times the message got repeated when you received it ? 3 times for me... This aol mail processors drive me crazy sometimes !!! Luc PS. Marie Sue - it is not the copy/paste problem of the other time !!!! _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu May 8 11:07:24 2008 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0BC6F1D3@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Hyacinthoides non-scripta Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:08:26 -0500 In the Chicago area we struggle with all of the Hyacinthoides taxa. They survive for a few years (if we are lucky) and then disappear. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From antennaria@charter.net Thu May 8 11:12:18 2008 Message-Id: <20080508111211.P92XY.615507.root@fepweb09> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Gagea Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 8:12:11 -0700 Hello Fred (and PBS fans), Perhaps you missed my posting on May 1st entitled "Sowing seed in situ + spring bulbs", where I talk about Gagea fibrosa that I've grown and flowered at least for 2 years in Zone 5 near the New Hampshire border. Here's what I wrote about Gagea, and it includes a link to a photo taken a couple weeks back. It's a charming plant. Done blooming last week, is one of the many Gagea species, a genus of small, mostly yellow-flowered bulbs, closely allied to Tulipa. Here is a flowering plant of Gagea fibrosa, obtained from Jane McGary's fine specialty bulb list. An overlooked genus, cute little plants a few inches tall. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Gagea_fibrosa_2008a.jpg Mark McDonough antennaria@charter.net north-western Massachusetts, near the New Hampsire border USDA Zone 5 ============================= > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:45:29 -0400 > From: "Fred Biasella" > Subject: [pbs] FW: Gagea > To: > Message-ID: <002101c8b072$85ace500$55a7f10a@wsbmain.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Hello All, > > > > I've been following the thread about what people grow in their gardens and > this little plant caught my eye. Does anyone know where to find these little > lovelies? I have been searching on the web, but no luck. Does anyone else > grow them in colder (zone 5 & 6) climates? > > > > Warm Regards, > > Fred Biasella > > Cambridge (Boston) MA > > USDA Zone 6b From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Thu May 8 11:19:13 2008 Message-Id: <005a01c8b11e$a79a4660$55a7f10a@wsbmain.net> From: "Fred Biasella" Subject: Gagea Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:17:37 -0400 Hi Mark and All, I was trying to remember which member mentioned this plant but danged if I could remember who. You know what they say...the mind is the first to go. I tried to get some seeds from Archibalds, but they are not accepting any on-line orders at this time. Perhaps I will try Jane McGary and see if she has any to sell/trade. Thank you and all the other folks who responded to my inquiry. Warm Regards Fred Biasella Hello Fred (and PBS fans), Perhaps you missed my posting on May 1st entitled "Sowing seed in situ + spring bulbs", where I talk about Gagea fibrosa that I've grown and flowered at least for 2 years in Zone 5 near the New Hampshire border. Here's what I wrote about Gagea, and it includes a link to a photo taken a couple weeks back. It's a charming plant. Done blooming last week, is one of the many Gagea species, a genus of small, mostly yellow-flowered bulbs, closely allied to Tulipa. Here is a flowering plant of Gagea fibrosa, obtained from Jane McGary's fine specialty bulb list. An overlooked genus, cute little plants a few inches tall. From jshields@indy.net Thu May 8 11:39:32 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080508113332.038f0c40@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hyacinthoides non-scripta Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 11:39:17 -0400 Hi all, We have some Hyacinthoides (a nondescript mix of garden plants) and have had them for several years. I'll have to see how well they bloom this year, but they keep coming back. They are planted under rather heavy shade -- sugar maples and red oaks -- in bare clay-based woodland soil. Lots of leaves fall on them in autumn, but there are no other woods nearby, so the winter wind blows those leaves away. If the birds nest earlier and the trees leaf out earlier, I can hope that the spring bulbs will also come up earlier. This year, the long spell of very cool weather has bunched things up together. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 10:08 AM 5/8/2008 -0500, you wrote: >In the Chicago area we struggle with all of the Hyacinthoides taxa. They >survive for a few years (if we are lucky) and then disappear. > >Boyce Tankersley >Director of Living Plant Documentation >Chicago Botanic Garden >1000 Lake Cook Road >Glencoe, IL 60022 >tel: 847-835-6841 >fax: 847-835-1635 >email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From miller7398@comcast.net Thu May 8 12:05:21 2008 Message-Id: <006101c8b125$4b1fca20$3f39734c@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Trillium rescue Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:05:09 -0700 HI all, Yesterday was well spent (and so was I). Staff and volunteers from the Berry Botanical Garden, Portland, Oregon dug Trillium ovatum from a site soon to be developed with condominiums. The beautiful plants are now happy in a Berry Botanical Garden bed. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon (14 miles due east of Portland. From Clayton3120@cablespeed.com Thu May 8 12:46:15 2008 Message-Id: <002c01c8b12a$9c940bf0$0a428f18@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Clayton3120" Subject: Hyacinthoides non-scripta Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:43:12 -0700 Hi, being a transplant to the west coast, from Pa, 25 years ago, I've grown Hyacinthoides non-scripta in both places. here in the Seattle area, we have an acidic soil, mine is somewhat sandy. NW soils are generally somewhat deficient in Phosphorus, and this plant thrives beyond belief. In Pa, I planted them, got one blooming, and they dissappeared. The soil there was definitely limestone based, with a considerably higher phosphorus content, and iron, if that sheds any light. It just makes it all interesting. I never expect complete success of all plants in all places, no matter what you do, or what you have. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hyacinthoides non-scripta > Hi all, > > We have some Hyacinthoides (a nondescript mix of garden plants) and have > had them for several years. I'll have to see how well they bloom this > year, but they keep coming back. They are planted under rather heavy > shade > -- sugar maples and red oaks -- in bare clay-based woodland soil. Lots of > leaves fall on them in autumn, but there are no other woods nearby, so the > winter wind blows those leaves away. > > If the birds nest earlier and the trees leaf out earlier, I can hope that > the spring bulbs will also come up earlier. This year, the long spell of > very cool weather has bunched things up together. > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana (USA) > > > At 10:08 AM 5/8/2008 -0500, you wrote: >>In the Chicago area we struggle with all of the Hyacinthoides taxa. They >>survive for a few years (if we are lucky) and then disappear. >> >>Boyce Tankersley >>Director of Living Plant Documentation >>Chicago Botanic Garden >>1000 Lake Cook Road >>Glencoe, IL 60022 >>tel: 847-835-6841 >>fax: 847-835-1635 >>email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From opbungalow@gmail.com Thu May 8 12:47:18 2008 Message-Id: <150371710805080947u4f00b775vbfc3445e0d815632@mail.gmail.com> From: "David Maxwell" Subject: Hippeastrum Cultivar & Seed Exchange Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:47:12 -0700 I'm looking for other Amaryllis enthusiasts who are interested swapping varieties from their collections...and/or seeds that they've hybridized themselves. Seeing the PBS photos of native Hippeastrum varieties and reading about their indigenous habitats really peaked my interest. I had immediate success with growing from seeds, so now whenever bulbs from my commercially grown/bought collection flower, I always cross-pollinate. Unfortunately I haven't been hybridizing long enough for any of my cultivars to have produced flowers...yet. - David (San Francisco/Sacramento, CA) From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu May 8 13:19:27 2008 Message-Id: <48233605.9000808@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Archibalds (was: Re: Gagea) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 10:19:01 -0700 The Archibalds gave an explanation in their last catalog this past winter as to why they've basically gone back to a snailmailed paper catalog and given up on trying to keep their website properly updated. So while it is something of a hassle to me, who has become quite accustomed to doing everything via the Internet including paying, they still do have an amazing variety of geophytic seeds offered. And to sweeten the deal (for people like me), they persuaded Watson & Flores to start offering seeds from Chile and Andean Argentina again via their (the Archibalds') list. This makes them doubly expensive for those of us in a dollar economy since the Archibalds tend to charge more anyway, and the prices are in pounds. But they've managed to get quite the unusual seeds, such as three different species of Hieronymiella in this past catalog! --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a Fred Biasella wrote: > Hi Mark and All, > > I was trying to remember which member mentioned this plant but danged if I > could remember who. You know what they say...the mind is the first to go. I > tried to get some seeds from Archibalds, but they are not accepting any > on-line orders at this time. > > From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu May 8 15:45:19 2008 Message-Id: <25386834.1012231210275917765.JavaMail.www@wwinf2202> From: Mark BROWN Subject: :  Alstroemeria patagonica and Schickendantzia Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 21:45:17 +0200 (CEST) It came through fine for me. > Message du 08/05/08 16:31 > De : lucgbulot@aol.com > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Re : Alstroemeria patagonica and Schickendantzia > > Oh my god !!! > Seems that my message arrived in a funny way again !!! > > Is it ok ??? or shall I retype it ??? > > Luc > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From dells@voicenet.com Thu May 8 15:54:08 2008 Message-Id: <20080508195402.7C3334C00F@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 171 Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:53:18 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 171" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Tarcisio Raduenz: 1. Seed of Bomarea salsilla From Fred Biasella: 2. Small bulbs of Ismene calathina (Peruviana daffodil), some near blooming size. From Alberto Castillo: 3. Fresh seed of Rhodophiala granatiflora (the correct name, this time) 4. Seed of Canna glauca From Erin Grace: 5. Seed of Zephyranthes atamasco, "from SW Georgia, USA. Usually bloom mid-April. In 2007, after several years of drought, there were very few blooms in the wild. This year they were spectacular!" Thank you, Tarcisio, Fred, Alberto, and Erin !! Best wishes, Del Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From dells@voicenet.com Thu May 8 16:15:01 2008 Message-Id: <20080508201500.DEB664C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Addendum to Pacific BX 171 Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:14:43 -0400 I forgot to include the following item in the listing for the latest BX: From Doug Westfall: 6. Seed of Haemanthus deformis Thank you, Doug !! Best wishes, Dell From ron_redding@hotmail.com Thu May 8 16:18:56 2008 Message-Id: From: Ronald Redding Subject: Addendum to Pacific BX 171 Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 06:18:45 +1000 Dell Could I please get some seed of the 6. Seed of Haemanthus deformis please you will also note that I am totally up to date with all of my payments and I am not sure if you know however the plants arrived in your country yesterday yes the worsleyas took two days to get there.Kind Regards and Best WishesRon ReddingHervey BayAustralia> From: dells@voicenet.com> To: adam14113@ameritech.net; CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com; DavBouch5@aol.com; eagle85@flash.net; pbs@lists.ibiblio.org; macfarla@almaden.ibm.com; Antennaria@aol.com; marque219@yahoo.com; Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com; masterson4@cox.net> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:14:43 -0400> Subject: [pbs] Addendum to Pacific BX 171> > I forgot to include the following item in the listing for the latest BX:> > > > >From Doug Westfall:> > > > 6. Seed of Haemanthus deformis> > > > Thank you, Doug !!> > > > Best wishes,> > Dell> > _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ Never miss another e-mail with Hotmail on your mobile. http://www.livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=343869 From msittner@mcn.org Thu May 8 16:38:31 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080508131650.044086b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Strange formatting on the list Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 13:27:28 -0700 Hi, Like Paul I have trouble reading some of the messages. Luc and I thought we had figured out a way around his aol.com postings. When he pasted from Word there seemed to be a problem. But when he composed the message directly it was fine. However the Alstroemeria message came through in one big jumble and the original message was repeated twice in the same jumble. I took one look at it and decided I wasn't going to attempt to decipher it. But there is a potential fix for messages that may be difficult to read. You can go to the archives, copy the message and paste it somewhere it can be read more easily. Mark Brown's messages are jumbled as well for me and Jim Jone's have a strange character added that could be a carriage return symbol, but it detracts from the message. But it's another aol message. I wish there was cross platform and email providers consistency so we could all read the same message, but I doubt that will ever happen. Mary Sue From eagle85@flash.net Thu May 8 16:53:04 2008 Message-Id: <99D24073-E872-462D-851D-B87739ED48C4@flash.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Addendum to Pacific BX 171 Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 13:52:55 -0700 Sorry, I did not complete going through my emails. Doug From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu May 8 17:35:44 2008 Message-Id: <9039286.993411210282542937.JavaMail.www@wwinf2219> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Strange formatting on the list Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 23:35:42 +0200 (CEST) > Message du 08/05/08 22:38 > De : "Mary Sue Ittner" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Strange formatting on the list > > Dear Mary Sue, Does this mean that you can never read my posts? > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From tony@plantdelights.com Thu May 8 18:32:24 2008 Message-Id: <48237F6F.10906@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Alstroemeria Non-hardy Hybrid Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 18:32:15 -0400 Jane, etal: We tried several of the Princess series of Alstromeria, and found Alstroemeria 'Stapripal' to be the hardiest. We have grown this in the open garden for 9 years and it flowers reliably each year. During this time, we have only seen a winter low of 6 degrees F. Unfortunately, the introducers choose to thumb their noses at the International Nomenclature Code and US Trademark law in the naming of the plants. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent Jane McGary wrote: > I think Jim Shields is referring to one of the "Princess Strain" hybrid > alstroemerias that are now widely available in garden centers. They are > suitable for containers and I have an attractive one in my solarium. It is > evergreen and has a long flowering period. Judging from the succulent, > shiny foliage, it is closely descended from A. pelegrina, which is coastal > and probably quite tender. I tried four other selections outdoors, and one > of them barely survived a winter here but the others died. > > At 10:36 AM 5/8/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> We bought some small potted plants for the deck a year ago. Included was a >> small Alstroemeria hybrid that turned out to be evergreen. It seems that >> there are some hybrids on the market now that will stay green and perhaps >> even flowering all year round. This is almost a dwarf, less than a foot (30 >> cm) tall as I recall. >> >> I moved the planter into the greenhouse in autumn and let it go completely >> dry, expecting to have to nurse it through a dormant period. The >> Alstroemeria alone continued to stay green and tried to grow. Finally, I >> dug it out, divided it into 4 pieces, and replanted it into the container. >> I started watering it almost immediately, and it is growing and flowering >> again. >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Thu May 8 18:40:23 2008 Message-Id: <7941298.1210286418849.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Pacific BX 171 Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 17:40:18 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Hi Dell: Please put me on the list for 1, 2, 3 and 6. Thank you and best regards, Mark Mazer From prallen2@peoplepc.com Thu May 8 19:34:41 2008 Message-Id: <99544.1210289677297.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: patty allen Subject: Hyacinthoides non-scripta Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 19:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Hi Mary Sue, Thank you so much for putting those photos up! They were georgous and DID remind me of fields and pastures of Bluebonnets in central Texas(especially)where they grow under Liveoak and Mesquite trees and beside Prickly Pear Cactus. Beautiful!! Patty -----Original Message----- >From: Mary Sue Ittner >Sent: May 8, 2008 10:28 AM >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: [pbs] Hyacinthoides non-scripta > >Patty asks: >>Personally, I would love to see you post a photo of an "English Bluebell >>wood". > >I added a couple of pictures to the wiki after we visited the UK in 2005 >and hiked in some place where they were in bloom. It was enchanting. >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hyacinthoides > >I've taken pictures of the "Spanish Bluebells" we've been talking about >since I noticed long ago that it wasn't on the wiki, but somehow have never >gotten it added. In my northern California garden it is dependable, but not >weedy. I'm not sure why it would increase more in other Pacific Northwest >areas than it does here. Maybe mine are too shady. But once again what is a >weed in some areas is not in another. > >I planted Alstroemeria that Roy Sach gave me and they rarely bloom, but do >spread more than I'd like for a non blooming plant. I think we discussed >why they might not do well for me and concluded they preferred better soil >and more fertilizer. I'm not sure how you'd dig them out to the ground to >share without damaging them but Carolyn can try. > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com From othonna@gmail.com Thu May 8 22:56:56 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260805081956p4ba1af25uf054139a5e8469c7@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Camassia Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 19:56:44 -0700 Diana, A few years back a friend shared with me a small bulb he had collected in NE Mexico, maybe in Tamaulipas. It had pink flowers and seemed similar to Camassia scilloides. I've since lost it but the aptly named C. scilloides grows perfectly well as a winter grower, even though it was originally gathered near Uvalde, Texas. Dylan Hannon On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Diana Chapman wrote: > I don't know how to upload to the wiki, but I have just posted a picture of > a pink flowered Camassia leichtlinii on my blog: > www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. Has anyone ever seen a pink flowered > Camassia > before? Mine originated in Oregon, and apparently the parent population > was > wiped out by road widening. > > There are also some lengthy postings on Calochortus, which are blooming > now. > > Diana Chapman > Telos Rare Bulbs > www.telosrarebulbs.com > blog: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu May 8 23:56:45 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Bluebells Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 22:56:12 -0500 Dear Friends, .....it gets SO CONFUSING. I grow and they are just blooming Hyacinthoides (fill in the blank ) 'Dainty Maid' (pink), 'Excelsior' (blue) and a white cv. They are all very well behaved in my garden and do not seed about. According to the PBS intro and discussion http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-December/005011.html Are these all hybrids between H. hispanica and H. nonscripta? or belonging to a single species. And where does H. campanulata fit into this? Just how many species are currently recognized? Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri May 9 02:51:10 2008 Message-Id: <1A3AC1FA-DC44-4184-8705-11E94B4FC8EE@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: ancient Fritillaria imperialis Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 23:50:53 -0700 At the Hortus Bulborum at Limmen, the Netherlands, they have been able to keep a variegated Frit imperialis since the 17th century. A Scottish Rock Garden forum member showed pictures of his recent visit there, but the Frit had finished flowering so there is no photo of it. Diane Whitehead From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu May 8 17:30:30 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080509022801.0171ef18@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Alstroemeria Non-hardy Hybrid Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 02:30:03 -0700 I think Jim Shields is referring to one of the "Princess Strain" hybrid alstroemerias that are now widely available in garden centers. They are suitable for containers and I have an attractive one in my solarium. It is evergreen and has a long flowering period. Judging from the succulent, shiny foliage, it is closely descended from A. pelegrina, which is coastal and probably quite tender. I tried four other selections outdoors, and one of them barely survived a winter here but the others died. At 10:36 AM 5/8/2008 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, > >We bought some small potted plants for the deck a year ago. Included was a >small Alstroemeria hybrid that turned out to be evergreen. It seems that >there are some hybrids on the market now that will stay green and perhaps >even flowering all year round. This is almost a dwarf, less than a foot (30 >cm) tall as I recall. > >I moved the planter into the greenhouse in autumn and let it go completely >dry, expecting to have to nurse it through a dormant period. The >Alstroemeria alone continued to stay green and tried to grow. Finally, I >dug it out, divided it into 4 pieces, and replanted it into the container. >I started watering it almost immediately, and it is growing and flowering >again. From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Fri May 9 05:46:05 2008 Message-Id: From: giorgio pozzi Subject: Cypripedium pictures Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:46:00 +0200 Hi all, I began posting some pictures of Cypripedium http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cypripedium Giorgio Pozzi Travedona (VA) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From dells@voicenet.com Fri May 9 06:52:05 2008 Message-Id: <20080509105204.A6B874C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 171 closed Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 06:51:45 -0400 Hi All, Everything is claimed and then some. Packages should go out after the weekend. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri May 9 11:25:44 2008 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: PACIFIC BX 171 Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 15:25:36 +0000 Hi: I have recently donated fresh from the capsules seed of Canna glauca. Although not a bulb or bulbous it seemed of interest to put in the hands of PBS subscribers this species that as you know, are the parents of "water Cannas". This species, Canna glauca, grows in marshes that are soaking wet the year round, the foliage is perennial and rather greyish instead of the usual lush green associated with Cannas, flowers are quite large for a species in a lovely canary yellow and of good size and very "orchid like". But, the reason why I have sent these is that they come from the southernmost population of any Canna anywhere, south here is associated with cold and should be a lot hardier than any other Canna. Perhaps the beginning of new race of hardier Cannas? This particular population endures many slight frosts during the winter in the open sunny location they grow in. Good luck. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Descargá ya gratis y viví la experiencia Windows Live. http://www.descubrewindowslive.com/latam/index.html From B.J.M.Zonneveld@biology.leidenuniv.nl Fri May 9 13:43:46 2008 Message-Id: <8E19E8A2233ED74D8483ACF3FBB3603B01B4EE90@iblmail.ibl.leidenuniv.nl> From: "B.J.M. Zonneveld" Subject: Hyacinthoides hybrids Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 19:42:53 +0200 Dear Folks just as extra info: There seems to be diploid and triploid hybrids around of H non-scripta and hispanica. I am not sure yet but the triploid seems to have broader leaves and bigger flowers ( Like Excelsior!) So being triploid it is no surprize that is does not seed around. Actually I think also the diploid hybrid is fully sterile .However both increase very fast by bulbs. They might also increase by apomictic seed?. So what I see around in gardens or semi wild is mostly the hybrid .Moreover a good difference between them is H noncripta has yellow-white anhters and H hispanica purple anthers, the hybrid has lightly lilac anthers. So out in the garden and check those anthers! Ben J.M. zonneveld From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu May 8 20:03:37 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080509153423.016c6b68@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Sternbergia seed sowing Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 15:36:27 -0700 A kind friend has sent me some good Sternbergia seeds, I believe quite recently collected. I haven't had a high rate of germination from stored Sternbergia seed in the past and I wonder if I should sow them immediately rather than waiting to sow them in fall as I would with many Mediterranean-cycle bulb seeds. I expect only a week or two more of chilly temperatures here. Can anyone advise me? Thanks, Jane McGary From ang.por@alice.it Sat May 10 04:07:30 2008 Message-Id: From: Subject: R: Sternbergia seed sowing Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 10:07:18 +0200 No matter of how many weeks of chilly they get, they won't germinate now whatever you do. I think your low rate of germination is due to non correct storing. If you keep them in a refrigerator, this is wrong because the seeds need to 'feel' a dry summer with hot temperatures and only later many weeks of watering with cooling temps. Sternbergia seeds have a fleshy aril around the seeds after ripening, which is spongy and swells in water. This is a mean of dispersal and thanks to this aril the seeds float. Try to put them in water now and will see how they float. This aril is active for some time, keeping moisture inside, but with the summer drought it will dry out totally. As long as this 'tissue' is alive the seed won't germinate, I believe a kind of inhibitor is present in that aril. Angelo Porcelli Apulia - south of Italy From LucGBulot@aol.com Sat May 10 12:51:52 2008 Message-Id: <8CA80D5442ED5DE-1190-D6F@FWM-D16.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: A problem with Lilium cernuum Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 12:51:45 -0400 Hi all, I was?quite happy a few days ago to see that my newly introduced Lilium cernuum was showing buds. The plant was obtained by mid-April and was already in growth in a container when I planted it. The nursery I bought it from is a very reliable one and I never had problems with plants from them so far. Nevertheless I found it funny that the buds already appeared when the plant was only about 20cm high. I?would have thought?that the normal flowering size for L. cernuum is between 50-60 cm and the normal flowering time July. So in a way the plant would have been "early"... Looking at the Lilium?corner today I suddenly realized that the head of my L. cernuum was hanging down and the upper part of the stem below the buds was all flat and somehow mushy... Aside of that the lower part of the plant looks perfectly normal... I really wonder what happened since the plant was looking perfectly healthy two days ago ? I could not see any pest marks?nor it does look like the plant was hurted or broken by the cats or the wind... I had a close inspection of all other lilies in the same corner and could not see either anything abnormal. All L. henryi, L. regale, L. lancifolium and L. speciosum f. rubrum are in full growth and does not seem to be affected by any problem... Anybody else has experienced problems of this type with L. cernuum or any other Lily ? What can be the cause of the problem ? Thanks in advance for your imputs... Luc From jshields104@comcast.net Sun May 11 09:44:52 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080511094400.0280d768@mail.comcast.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Pollination Vectors Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:44:33 -0400 A question for plant ecologists and others interested in pollination vectors: How does one establish that an insect species found "hanging around" a particular species of flower in bloom is in fact a pollination vector for that plant species? At the moment I'm interested in some speciation questions regarding Trillium in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park and vicinity. One question I want to look into is if there are differences in pollination vectors that might serve to help isolate two sympatric species to some extent? At the moment, two of us have photographed what appear to be Drosophila (fruit flies) sitting on flowers of Trillium. Where do we go from here to try to establish cause and effect? Jim Shields in very rainy central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From john@johnlonsdale.net Sun May 11 10:02:38 2008 Message-Id: <0a9b01c8b36f$a14f2700$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Seed Exchange feedback Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 10:02:20 -0400 I got a bunch of seeds of Crinum bulbispermum 'Jumbo' from Dell from BX119 and am pleased to report I just finished planting out the results - 73 bulbs, the largest the size of a good daffodil bulb, the smallest about as big as a bulbocodium narcissus, and all making strong new roots. I sowed them in two 8" pots and kept them watered and lightly fed when in growth. Last years seeds of Crinum variabile are doing well but won't be big enough to go into the garden for another year. I'm looking forward to seeing them mature in the garden! Best, John John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From kellso@irvincentral.com Sun May 11 10:06:23 2008 Message-Id: <4826FD50.60800@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Pollination Vectors Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:06:08 -0500 Hi, Jim. I don't have an answer. I would ask are meaning "pollinator" and not "pollination vector", unless you are talking about disease carriers? Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ From jshields@indy.net Sun May 11 10:19:32 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080511101412.028056d8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Pollination Vectors Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 10:19:13 -0400 Hi Kelly, I'm just referring to anything that transports pollen from one flower to another in a manner that results in pollination of the recipient flower, so I use "vector" in the broadest sense. It had not occurred to me before that there might be a methodology involved in establishing that a particular bug was a true natural pollinator of a given plant species. Jim Shields At 09:06 AM 5/11/2008 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, Jim. I don't have an answer. I would ask are meaning "pollinator" >and not "pollination vector", unless you are talking about disease carriers? > >Mr. Kelly M. Irvin >10850 Hodge Ln >Gravette, AR 72736 >USA > >479-787-9958 >USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > >http://www.irvincentral.com/ > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun May 11 12:03:42 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: Pollination Vectors Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:03:26 -0700 Hi Jim, There are different ways to approach this, but I can think of several ways to try and show that these *Drosophila *do pollinate the plants. The first and easiest way is to look at the pollen on these flies. Do they belong the same species of *Trillium*? This doesn't tell you much, other than that they carry pollen of one or multiple species. The second thing you can do is to set up a garden experiment where you have a single species of *Trillium *within nets that exclude all other insects. You can have several pots placed a distant apart in this net. You will need two sets, one set you will add flies, the other you will not (=control). See what happens after the flowers have finished blooming. I can see many complications with this experiment, particularly if your flies die. You should also know if your plants are self-fertile. After this experiment is done (or even simultaneous to this experiment), you can ask different questions regarding the pollination biology of *Trillium *based on different insects, or does one species of insect pollinate many species of *Trillium*? This approach would be simple. You just need to set up insect traps such as a sticky trap around the *Trillium *and see what shows up. Or, you can perch there all day and see what comes to pollinate. The problem is that some things may not come with you sitting around. Anyway, those are the ideas I can pull out of my head this cloudy morning. I'm sure you can come up with other fun experiments to try. Good luck with it. Nhu Berkeley, CA On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 7:19 AM, J.E. Shields wrote: > Hi Kelly, > > I'm just referring to anything that transports pollen from one flower to > another in a manner that results in pollination of the recipient flower, so > I use "vector" in the broadest sense. It had not occurred to me before > that there might be a methodology involved in establishing that a > particular bug was a true natural pollinator of a given plant species. > > Jim Shields > > At 09:06 AM 5/11/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi, Jim. I don't have an answer. I would ask are meaning "pollinator" > >and not "pollination vector", unless you are talking about disease > carriers? > > > >Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > >10850 Hodge Ln > >Gravette, AR 72736 > >USA > > > >479-787-9958 > >USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > > >http://www.irvincentral.com/ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ From ksayce@willapabay.org Sun May 11 17:31:17 2008 Message-Id: <84FE4D71-148B-4EC0-A5E8-16905D4D9360@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Hyacinthoides and stamen colors Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 14:31:11 -0700 Having a yard well supplied with Hyacinthoides of many colors, which I let grow almost everywhere they decide to appear, I went out in the rain yesterday and inspected about 100 flowering plants to see if the stamen color is ever anything but the flower color. I am reporting back that in one case I saw a light blue flower with dark blue stamens, and in one other case, a blue flower with very pale, almost white stamens, and in all other flower spikes, the tepal color was the same as the stamen color, be it white, pink, or blue, light to dark. The open flowers vary from wide bells to narrow, straight bells, the spikes from upright with spirals of flowers opening along the stem to 'one-sided' curved; width of leaf and overall height appear to be related to bulb vigor and otherwise do not vary widely; all plants appear to be in peak bloom right now. This garden was first planted in 1865-1880s, restored in the 1940s, again in the 1980s, and no new bulbs of this genus have been added since the first two peak gardening periods. If desired, I can supply hundreds of bulbs for the next bulb exchange, though not sorted by color. . . Kathleen From piabinha@yahoo.com Sun May 11 23:00:08 2008 Message-Id: <709377.37784.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Cryptostylis article Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 19:59:44 -0700 (PDT) http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSN0742189220080508? ========= tsuh yang ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Mon May 12 13:11:14 2008 Message-Id: From: giorgio pozzi Subject: cyp. plectrochilon picture Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 19:11:11 +0200 Hi all, I posted a picture of small Cypripedium plectrochilon http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cypripedium Giorgio Pozzi Travedona (VA) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Mon May 12 16:58:56 2008 Message-Id: <01bb01c8b472$fcc3f030$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: Hyacinthoides Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 21:58:53 +0100 Further to earlier postings on the site regarding the two species [a] the English Bluebell - Hyacinthoides nonscripta, and [b] the Spanish Bluebell - Hyacinthoides hispanica. These two species in diploid form do very much hybridise and it is a matter of serious regret, as well as irresponsibility, that gardeners in Europe seem either ignorant of the environmental damage they do to the conservation of wild populations of [a] above or that there are increasing numbers who frankly don't care. In the case of [b] this is a very, relatively, aggressive species which rapidly cross pollinates those of [a] when imported to the British Isles from continental Europe. Because it is a criminal offence to dig up bulbs of [a] from nature, bulb dealers and importers are plundering populations of [b] in Spain to satisfy demand from gardeners. The situation in England in some areas especially has become a real threat to the wild populations of [a]. In Scotland however where wild populations are rather less common and largely restricted to the Lowlands where broadleaf forest dominates, rather than elsewhere, e.g. the Highlands where coniferous boreal type forest exists there is either there more appreciation of the issues and or a different gardening ethos and a conservation awareness or bias with the result that there is now active discrimination against those who behave like this. Ironically we have with the full sanction of the government here the ecological disaster associated with two tree species both from the Pacific northwest, Picea sitchensis and Pinus contorta var. latifolia, both of which grow faster here in Scotland than they do on their home turf but produce useless timber fit only for low value pulp and chipboard when we need timber that will stress grade for structural purposes, but both are now seeding themselves around at a frightening pace aggressively intruding themselves into out native forests, and seriously screwing our local native ecology, a situation keenly felt here at Auchgourish Botanic Garden right now. We are all coming soon to the pass where gardeners either behave responsibly in the future with their selection of plants which might escape into nature and cause unforeseen repercussions for the local ecology, or governments will increasingly be enticed, or driven, to legislate to protect wild ecology from such escapes. Under legislation in Scotland the list of plant species which it is forbidden to buy, sell or grow is increasing year on year. Those of us who play the game as it were always seem to fall foul of legislation brought down on our heads by those who don't. This is a thorny issue no doubt and I am sure it has analogues in North America too. Clearly where conditions are optimum either [a] or [b] above will get along just fine but when they do, what of the native flora gets displaced? Please be very careful how enthusiastic you get with either or both, you might find you have invited in a most unfortunate floral 'guest'. Iain From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Mon May 12 19:35:20 2008 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20080512195402.01c54140@agro.uba.ar> From: German Roitman Subject: Pollination Vectors Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 20:34:36 -0300 Dear Jim: I have been searching in some databases of pollination and the info available refers that Trillium is self sterile (it need the activity of pollinator for seed set) and most species are pollinated by bumblebees, flies, ants and beetles. The fly you have observed is probably a Syrphid fly not a Drosophila, i guess. Syrphid flies use to eat pollen and pollinate as well. You can check this publication for more information and references: ___________________________ Tammy L. Sage, Steven R. Griffin, Vincenza Pontieri, Peter Drobac, William W. Cole and Spencer C. H. Barrett 2001. Stigmatic Self-Incompatibility and Mating Patterns in Trillium grandiflorum and Trillium erectum(Melanthiaceae) Annals of Botany 88: 829-841 Post-pollination processes governing mating patterns in Trillium, a well-known genus of insect-pollinated woodland herbs, are poorly understood. Mechanisms influencing outcrossing were investigated in T. grandiflorum and T. erectum, two widespread species native to eastern North America. In southern Ontario, Canada, the two species are often sympatric; they flower in early May, and are pollinated by different assemblages of insects. Controlled cross- and self-pollinations and structural observations of pollen germination and pollen tube growth were conducted to determine whether the two species possess a self-incompatibility (SI) system and, if so, the specific site(s) of self-rejection. Controlled pollinations indicated that both species set significantly more seeds from cross-pollination than self-pollination, implicating the action of SI. This was confirmed by structural studies which demonstrated that self-recognition and rejection reactions occurred on dry-type stigmatic papillae. Observations of pollen hydration revealed that self-rejection was rapid, being initiated within 10 min of pollination and prior to pollen tube emergence. Final self-rejection resulted in failure of pollen tube growth at the base of stigmatic papillae. SI was expressed more weakly in T. erectum and thereby resulted in considerable self-seed set in some individuals . Estimates of outcrossing rates using allozyme markers indicated that T. erectum displayed a mixed-mating system whereas T. grandiflorum was more highly outcrossed. Structural studies of pollen traits indicated that the two species differed with respect to the size of grains and their aggregation with implications for pollen dispersal and mating. The ecological and evolutionary implications of the variable expression of SI in Trillium are discussed. ____________________ In your case if the 2 species of Trillium has diferent pollen shape (color, size, etc), perhaps you can capture the flies using a dry method so pollen is not washed and then extract the pollen from the bodie of the flie and observe it using a microscope, in that way you can see if the flies visit the 2 species or only one of them. Hope this help Best wishes Germán At 11:19 11/05/2008, you wrote: >Hi Kelly, > >I'm just referring to anything that transports pollen from one flower to >another in a manner that results in pollination of the recipient flower, so >I use "vector" in the broadest sense. It had not occurred to me before >that there might be a methodology involved in establishing that a >particular bug was a true natural pollinator of a given plant species. > >Jim Shields > >At 09:06 AM 5/11/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi, Jim. I don't have an answer. I would ask are meaning "pollinator" > >and not "pollination vector", unless you are talking about disease carriers? > > > >Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > >10850 Hodge Ln > >Gravette, AR 72736 > >USA > > > >479-787-9958 > >USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > > >http://www.irvincentral.com/ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Mon May 12 21:40:11 2008 Message-Id: <56807.3190.qm@web36401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Hyacinthoides Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 18:40:02 -0700 (PDT) I purchased my [b] collection from White Flower Farm when I bought my Long Island, NY house about 15 yrs ago -- I had no idea of all this and I'm sure there are other consumers who would like to read all about it before they plant hundreds of Spanish Bluebells up and down the driveway. My father's house nearby borders on several hundred acres of preserve, certainly there are going to be at least a handful of other homes owned by WFF customers. Perhaps someone ought to advise WFF of issues like this. H. hispanica -- invasive? Who knew? Iain Brodie of Falsyde wrote: Further to earlier postings on the site regarding the two species [a] the English Bluebell - Hyacinthoides nonscripta, and [b] the Spanish Bluebell - Hyacinthoides hispanica. These two species in diploid form do very much hybridise and it is a matter of serious regret, as well as irresponsibility, that gardeners in Europe seem either ignorant of the environmental damage they do to the conservation of wild populations of [a] above or that there are increasing numbers who frankly don't care. In the case of [b] this is a very, relatively, aggressive species which rapidly cross pollinates those of [a] when imported to the British Isles from continental Europe. Because it is a criminal offence to dig up bulbs of [a] from nature, bulb dealers and importers are plundering populations of [b] in Spain to satisfy demand from gardeners. The situation in England in some areas especially has become a real threat to the wild populations of [a]. In Scotland however where wild populations are rather less common and largely restricted to the Lowlands where broadleaf forest dominates, rather than elsewhere, e.g. the Highlands where coniferous boreal type forest exists there is either there more appreciation of the issues and or a different gardening ethos and a conservation awareness or bias with the result that there is now active discrimination against those who behave like this. Ironically we have with the full sanction of the government here the ecological disaster associated with two tree species both from the Pacific northwest, Picea sitchensis and Pinus contorta var. latifolia, both of which grow faster here in Scotland than they do on their home turf but produce useless timber fit only for low value pulp and chipboard when we need timber that will stress grade for structural purposes, but both are now seeding themselves around at a frightening pace aggressively intruding themselves into out native forests, and seriously screwing our local native ecology, a situation keenly felt here at Auchgourish Botanic Garden right now. We are all coming soon to the pass where gardeners either behave responsibly in the future with their selection of plants which might escape into nature and cause unforeseen repercussions for the local ecology, or governments will increasingly be enticed, or driven, to legislate to protect wild ecology from such escapes. Under legislation in Scotland the list of plant species which it is forbidden to buy, sell or grow is increasing year on year. Those of us who play the game as it were always seem to fall foul of legislation brought down on our heads by those who don't. This is a thorny issue no doubt and I am sure it has analogues in North America too. Clearly where conditions are optimum either [a] or [b] above will get along just fine but when they do, what of the native flora gets displaced? Please be very careful how enthusiastic you get with either or both, you might find you have invited in a most unfortunate floral 'guest'. Iain _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. From msittner@mcn.org Mon May 12 22:25:28 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080512185344.0349ab60@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Cypripedium pictures Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 19:24:15 -0700 Hi, I hope some of you have had a chance to see the wiki Cypripedium page that Giorgio has been creating. He has added a lot of beautiful pictures and is slowly describing the species he grows. Giorgio, could you tell us if you are growing these in pots or if you have been able to establish any of them in the ground? Does anyone else in our group grow Cypripedium? Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Mon May 12 22:25:37 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080512185540.0349e6d8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: New Wiki Administrator Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 19:24:56 -0700 I'd like to announce that Nhu Nguyen has agreed to assist Jay Yourch, Linda Foulis, and me with the wiki. We are very happy to have his help. Mary Sue From john@johnlonsdale.net Mon May 12 22:35:26 2008 Message-Id: <0b4501c8b4a1$f828fff0$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Cypripedium pictures Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 22:35:12 -0400 "Does anyone else in our group grow Cypripedium?" http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plants_album/The%20Complete%20Collection/Orch idaceae/Cypripedium/index.html Cypripedium kentuckiense, parviflorum ssp. pubescens and parviflorum ssp. parviflorum grow very well here. C. acaule would grow if I could keep the substrate sufficiently acid (artificially). The Chinese species, European species and those from the mid-west and western USA are a disaster - they hate our hot and humid summers. Those pictured on my web site survived at most 2-3 years after flowering. Some of the pubescens/parviflorum/kentuckiense hybrids with the 'easier' Chinese species will probably do OK. Best, J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Tue May 13 02:32:24 2008 Message-Id: <67118ED2-E768-4EDE-B559-597E03DDBA42@tiscali.it> From: giorgio pozzi Subject: Cypripedium pictures Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:32:20 +0200 Il giorno 13/mag/08, alle ore 04:24, Mary Sue Ittner ha scritto: > could you tell us if you > are growing these in pots or if you have been able to establish any > of them > in the ground? As usual all the new plants I begin to grow are suited in pots in order to choose the best soil mix and to move them to better position if needed, ( more sun or no sun at all ), and last it is easier to get the pictures from flowers in pot ( they may grow turned on opposite site from sight ). After the first year of growth I try to plant them directly in the ground: we have here naturally acid soil and I amend it to lower acidity with humus collected into the wood ( oaks, chestnuts and acacia leaves ) adding fine river sand, expanded clay and pumice to get better drainage; I saw it is easier to feed them in ground and also they need less care for watering, so the plants grown in flowerbeds are taller and healthy and develop more roots. They fear direct sun after middle morning, so I had to create artificial shadow for Calceolus in ground using a antihail net . Hoping it helps Giorgio Travedona (VA) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue May 13 03:22:34 2008 Message-Id: <001d01c8b4c9$d9992e20$ce70085a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: Hyacinthoides Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:20:40 +0200 I try in as much as possible to use variants of native plants.I find them fascinating.All the wonderful forms of Ranunculus ficarias for example.And what can beat a drift of Fritillaria meleagris.If I lived in the States I would certainly grow Trilliums galore and all their exciting variations,nut here they just look odd and pine away in our soil and fall quick prey to slugs.I have many forms of true Hyacinthoides non scripta found in the woods here and they far eclipse the few paltry weeds of the spanish ones.Except for an exceptional bracteate clone and the odd white one of hispanica I have no wish to grow it .Every time an ordinary blue one turns up here I soon dig it out and compost the tops and burn the bulb! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" To: Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: [pbs] Hyacinthoides > Further to earlier postings on the site regarding the two species > [a] the English Bluebell - Hyacinthoides nonscripta, and > [b] the Spanish Bluebell - Hyacinthoides hispanica. > > These two species in diploid form do very much hybridise and it is a > matter of serious regret, as well as irresponsibility, > that gardeners in Europe seem either ignorant of the environmental damage > they do to the conservation of wild populations > of [a] above or that there are increasing numbers who frankly don't care. > > In the case of [b] this is a very, relatively, aggressive species which > rapidly cross pollinates those of [a] when imported to > the British Isles from continental Europe. Because it is a criminal > offence to dig up bulbs of [a] from nature, bulb dealers > and importers are plundering populations of [b] in Spain to satisfy demand > from gardeners. The situation in England in some areas especially has > become a real threat to the wild populations of [a]. In Scotland however > where wild populations are rather > less common and largely restricted to the Lowlands where broadleaf forest > dominates, rather than elsewhere, e.g. the Highlands where coniferous > boreal type forest exists there is either there more appreciation of the > issues and or a different gardening ethos and a conservation > awareness or bias with the result that there is now active discrimination > against those who behave like this. Ironically we have with the full > sanction of the government here the ecological disaster associated with > two tree species both from the Pacific northwest, Picea sitchensis and > Pinus contorta var. latifolia, both of which grow faster here in Scotland > than they do on their home turf but produce useless timber fit only for > low value pulp and chipboard when we need timber that will stress grade > for structural purposes, but both are now seeding themselves around at a > frightening pace aggressively intruding themselves into out native > forests, and seriously screwing our local native ecology, > a situation keenly felt here at Auchgourish Botanic Garden right now. > > We are all coming soon to the pass where gardeners either behave > responsibly in the future with their selection of plants which might > escape into nature and cause unforeseen repercussions for the local > ecology, or governments will increasingly be enticed, > or driven, to legislate to protect wild ecology from such escapes. Under > legislation in Scotland the list of plant species which > it is forbidden to buy, sell or grow is increasing year on year. Those of > us who play the game as it were always seem to fall > foul of legislation brought down on our heads by those who don't. > > This is a thorny issue no doubt and I am sure it has analogues in North > America too. Clearly where conditions are optimum > either [a] or [b] above will get along just fine but when they do, what of > the native flora gets displaced? Please be very careful how > enthusiastic you get with either or both, you might find you have invited > in a most unfortunate floral 'guest'. > > Iain > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue May 13 08:26:31 2008 Message-Id: <000001c8b4f4$ec66f750$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Cypripedium pictures Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:28:59 -0400 Mary Sue asked: “Does anyone else in our group grow Cypripedium?” Cypripedium japonicum has been a success in my garden: my clump in now about ten years old. This species is worth growing for its foliage as much as for its flowers. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue May 13 08:33:09 2008 Message-Id: <000101c8b4f5$d4d9cd50$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: coldframe miscellany Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:35:29 -0400 Last fall I planted some florist’s Freesia in my protected cold frame. They took the winter well, growing very slowly. I expected them to surge into growth as soon as the temperatures moderated, but they are coming into bloom only now. Gladiolus tristis in the same frame is also now blooming. Brodiaea terrestris is blooming, too. Days of heavy rain have turned the foliage of many early risers to mush. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jglatt@hughes.net Tue May 13 09:35:40 2008 Message-Id: <48299922.5070707@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Cyclamen and Perennial Bulbs Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:35:30 -0400 Dell had asked, longer ago than I should have delayed my response but it is Spring, how well cyclamen grow outdoors in my garden. I'm in New Jersey, just a couple of miles from the Delaware River, gardening on clay, gardening in scruffy woods. Cyclamen coum, C. hederifolium, C. purpurascens all grow, but not as exuberantly as they did in Connecticut. There, I had that gardener's mythical holy grail of moist but well drained soil, high in organic matter. The one-acre site had five 100-year old white oak trees as canopy, with dogwoods naturally occurring understory. I could, using my fingers, make planting holes for reasonably large hosta. Here, I use an 8 pound mattock. In Connecticut the above-mentioned cyclamen self-sowed with abandon. Baby cyclamen, with tubers like tiny pink pearls of caviar would wait for me to rescue them before starvation conditions did them in, plopped as they were on top of the mother tuber. And C. europeum and C. rholfseanum also grew well. Fast forward to New Jersey. As well as the soil (which is not bad, for clay. It is fertile, and doesn't turn into slime with rain, or adobe when it doesn't rain) I have shale. And deer, groundhogs, white-footed deer mice, and voles. The cat takes care of rabbits, the few squirrels are not a problem, and there aren't too many chipmunks. Arisaema triphyllum is native on the site, all over the place. Arisaema thunbergii urashima does very well. I've lost one of three A. ringens, all 5 A. candidissimum, and several other species. No A. sikokianum, even though I moved several from a vigorous population in Connecticut when I moved garden 12 years ago. Other native geophytes on the street include Erythronium americanum, Dicentra cucullaria, Sanguinaria canadensis. I've moved starts of all three from the side of the road where people tend to pull over to go trout fishing in the Nishisackiwick Creek. They've done well. Other majorly successful geophytes include Arisarum proboscoideum, Anemone blanda, Anemone ranunculoides, Anemone nemorosa ('Vestal' seems especially happy) and Anemone flaccida. The last is much happier than in Connecticut. Leucojum vernum is quite happy. I got my start from a friend in Connecticut, who thought they were snowdrops, didn't know from snowflakes. She dug a trowel-full for me, and they've never looked back, in both of my gardens. Galanthus are happy: nivalis and cultivars such as Virid-Apice, a couple of doubles. G. woronowii, G. elwesii. Had a few bulbs of G. nivalis regina-olgae that developed in a huge colony. Said to myself, really need to divide this. I really did, 'cause one year it all just disappeared, vanished entirely. If I were a public garden I'd have called it finger-blight. But here? Doubt it. Camassia likes New Jersey clay, as apparently do an assortment of colchicums - autumnale, autumnale album plenum, several of the usual cultivars. Hyacinths repeat nicely, as do a range of narcissus - older cultivars like 'Thalia', poeticus Division IX cultivars, cyclamineus Division VI cultivars, and various trumpets and large cup cultivars. Hyacinthoides hispanicus grows excellently well. I just dug a clump out of a path (path moved, bulbs moved, maybe both . . ) that my husband had run over with the quad and cart while moving firewood - anything in a path is at risk. The tire went over the middle of the clump early on. The leaves were crumpled, but not completely mangled. I separated the bulbs from the one clump into 8 groups of 5 to 10 bulbs each (fewer large ones, more smaller ones) and donated to a plant swap. Hyacinthoides are just coming into bloom. I too, will have to go look at stamen / pollen color when they open. Fritillaria meleagris does well, so does F. imperialis even though it is on the partially shaded subsoil slope behind the house (subsoil because the land was cut down to make a plateau on which the house was built.) They have multiplied, they flower nicely, and I never cover them - didn't think of it to tell you the truth. They appear, night temperatures drop, they slump to the ground. Next day the sun comes up, temperatures warm, and the fritillaria resurrect themselves. I've noticed that the bulbs with pollinated flowers, forming seed, stay green longer than the non-seed-setting shoots. Alliums - the large cultivars like Lucy Ball and Rien Portvliet are doing well - repeating and very slowly making offsets on the same slope as the crown imperials. Other alliums elsewhere, but I need to check names / spelling. I do remember Allium ursinium, planted in amongst yellow dead-nettle, a very pretty combination right now. I had canna wintering outdoors next to the house, where my Musa basjoo winter over. But one cold season the voles moved in and ate every last scrap of canna rhizomes, also all the yellow-flowered Alstroemeria. This is getting overly long. So yes, I have successes. I also have failures. And in-between situations. But then, that's what gardening is all about. And sharing experiences with friends. Judy From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue May 13 18:57:54 2008 Message-Id: <000f01c8b54d$19934410$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Paeonia 'Coral Charm' Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 19:00:08 -0400 For Mother’s Day I decorated the table with a big bouquet of mock orange and peony flowers. The mock orange formed a mass about thirty inches wide and three stems of Paeonia ‘Coral Charm’ were placed near the center of the mass. The mock orange formed a diffuse mass, so it was not as overwhelming as it perhaps sounds. ‘Coral Charm’ is a famous hybrid introduced about forty years ago by hybridizer Samuel Wissing. It has what I think of as tree peony colors: coral, shrimp, peach and buff, although it’s a herbaceous hybrid. The flowers are large and very beautifully formed and evidently much grown for cut flower production. Its color makes it stand out in a collection of other herbaceous hybrids. It’s also an early blooming sort: only a few wild peonies bloom earlier in this garden. And it’s vigorous. It seems to have everything, doesn’t it? And as we discovered as each admirer put his or her nose to the blooms in the bouquet, it has something it might well do without: it stinks! The old Paeonia officinalis cultivars were often described in the older literature as having a soapy smell. ‘Coral Charm’ has the scent of stale fish: it’s really terrible, but fortunately it does not carry well. Now, three days after being cut, there is a vague peony fragrance accompanying the fish stink. It’s really beautiful, just don’t put you nose into it. I’ve added a picture to the wiki, take a look at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Paeonia Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From antennaria@charter.net Tue May 13 22:15:52 2008 Message-Id: <20080513221551.3AVLW.48945.root@fepweb16> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Iris events happening in my garden Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:15:51 -0400 Hiya folks, There has been lots of activity and great PBS postings, but my schedule prevents me from answering as much as I'd like. Jim McKenney talked about an Allium "event" in his garden... well, I have to say my garden is an all-season Allium event. But more about that latter. We had a late spring in New England, then a contracted season where everything is blooming at once. But some Iris are flowering exceptionally well this year... I thought I would share. Starting with the smallest, Iris minutoaurea from China is the best it has ever been. From the photos it might be hard to realize the plant is literally just 2" tall in bloom, with lots of tiny yellow blooms. The following two images are from this past weekend... it was too dim when I got home tonight to photograph it again, with even more flowers showing: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_minutoaurea_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_minutoaurea_2008b.jpg A new one for me is something I picked up at a locla Rock Gardening conference a couple years ago labelled ad Iris reichenbachii. I haven't researched the name to know if the name or ID is anywhere close to being true... but is is an Iris with very short leaves and stems reaching ionly 4-5" tall.... very nice: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_reichenbachii_2008b.jpg And then there is the rock garden favorite, Iris suaveolens, a tufted miniature nest of tiny fans of overlapping foliage and hordes (this year) of tiny olive-yellow flowers. Here are three views of this delight, only 3-4" tall: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_suaveolens_2008b.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_suaveolens_2008c.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_suaveolens_2008d.jpg One of the dwarf bearded Iris is I. lutescens. My plants came from Mike Salmon seed, collected from several locales in France and Spain. I have 3 yellow forms, and one purple-blue form. This year it has flowered better than ever... http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_lutescens_forms_2008c.jpg ... the following shows a form with pronounced brown veins on the falls. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_lutescens_forms_2008d.jpg Numerous Iris cristata forms threaten to bloom. One that has, is a giant among the crested Iris, I. cristata 'Edgar Anderson', here's a peak: Iris_cristata_Edgar_Anderson_2008a.jpg The exciting new Chinese Iris are also in bloom, I. odaesanensis (several forms, from Garden Vision Nursery), the rare Iris henryi looks like it'll have 50 blooms or more, and Iris koreana is just like a bright yellow form of I. cristata... all are great woodland garden plants or subjects for the bright shady rock garden. Iris 'Lancer' finally has a bud! Regarding Allium "events". my garden is an Allium Event... just so little time to describe why. Hope to do the research over the weekend. Cheers, From Mark McDonough antennaria@charter.net From xerantheum@gmail.com Wed May 14 00:00:35 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: Newest Wiki additions Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 21:00:29 -0700 Dear bulbophiles, I have added new photos and a couple of new species to the wiki. Enjoy! *New photos:* *Allium amplectens* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliums#amplectens *Allium falcifolium* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliumsTwo#falcifolium *Allium lacunosum* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliumsThree#lacunosum *Allium shevockii* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliumsFive#shevockii * Lachenalia aloides* var. *aurea* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LachenaliaSpeciesOne#aloides *Ledebouria socialis* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ledebouria *Triteleia ixioides* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TriteleiaSpeciesTwo#ixioides Trillium foetidissimum, showing the rare yellow form http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TrilliumSpeciesOne#foetidissimum *Trillium luteum* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TrilliumSpeciesTwo#luteum *Trillium simile* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TrilliumSpeciesThree#simile *New species: **Ledebouria pauciflora* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ledebouria *Trillium undulatum* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TrilliumSpeciesThree#undulatum Nhu -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Wed May 14 00:36:13 2008 Message-Id: <001601c8b57c$08ab8610$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Paeonia 'Coral Charm' Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 05:36:08 +0100 Jim McKenney described the flowers of Paeonia 'Coral Charm' as being 'coral, shrimp, peach and buff', which is accurate for the early stages. As the flower ages, however, it becomes a very attractive soft buff-yellow. I haven't noticed the changing fragrance, but find that there is usually something unpleasant lurking in the scent of a peony anyway. 'Coral Charm' isn't out here yet, but we're working through the species and their primary derivatives and P. delavayi is out against a wall, but not yet on the free-standing plants. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed May 14 09:44:01 2008 Message-Id: <000301c8b5c8$e540b950$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Paeonia 'Coral Charm' Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:46:07 -0400 John Grimshaw must be a bit of a mind reader. When I posted on Paeonia ‘Coral Charm’ I too wanted to say something more about the yellow color of the mature blossom. This touches on an important phase in the development of hybrid herbaceous peonies. Throughout the first half of the twentieth century peony hybridizers made an attempt – one never really realized successfully – to bring the yellow color of Paeonia mlokosewitschii into hybrid garden peonies. The person who was the prime mover in this effort, the distinguished Canadian American Prof. A.P. Saunders, produced many hybrids with Paeonia mlokosewitschii in their background. But none was a typical garden peony, and few if any improved on the yellow color of P. mlokosewitschii itself. Then, at mid-century, a dentist who practiced in Kensington, Maryland, just across the creek from my garden, produced the then famous hybrid ‘Claire de Lune’. ‘Claire’ created a sensation in the peony world because it was the first undoubted hybrid between Paeonia mlokosewitschii and P. lactiflora (the common garden peony). Peony enthusiasts of the time were desperate for yellow-flowered garden peonies: some of the cultivars described as having yellow highlights back then owed their “yellow color” to the reflection of light from the stamens! When ‘Claire’ was introduced, they bent over backwards to see yellow in the flower color: quite a few of them were convinced they saw it. As I know it, it’s a white-flowered peony, but in cool climates perhaps it does show yellow. So what’s the point of all this? When I observed the amount of yellow in the several-days-old flowers of ‘Coral Charm’, it reminded me that I did not know the parentage of this cultivar. I still don’t. In the literature it is reported as being primarily a hybrid of ‘Minnie Shaylor’ crossed with various hybrids and the resulting progeny then inbred. It’s the “various hybrids” part which pulls a curtain over the whole business. It’s hard to believe that at least some of those “various hybrids” did not have Paeonia mlokosewitschii in their background, but I don’t know for sure – yet. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where various red-flowered species-like Saunders hybrids are now blooming. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From Clayton3120@cablespeed.com Wed May 14 12:37:34 2008 Message-Id: <001001c8b5e0$83c7f2c0$0a428f18@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Clayton3120" Subject: Paeonia 'Coral Charm' Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:35:25 -0700 Jim, et al, Since we 're on the subject of Peonies, I just have to get this off my chest. A friend here in the Seattle area has a peony farm, A&D Peonies, and raises scads of hybrids. After walking thru row after row of plants years ago, I still have to conclude, if it doesn't have fragrance, I usually will pass it by. It's just my association with that plant. Just curious if anyone else feels the same way? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Paeonia 'Coral Charm' John Grimshaw must be a bit of a mind reader. When I posted on Paeonia 'Coral Charm' I too wanted to say something more about the yellow color of the mature blossom. This touches on an important phase in the development of hybrid herbaceous peonies. Throughout the first half of the twentieth century peony hybridizers made an attempt - one never really realized successfully - to bring the yellow color of Paeonia mlokosewitschii into hybrid garden peonies. The person who was the prime mover in this effort, the distinguished Canadian American Prof. A.P. Saunders, produced many hybrids with Paeonia mlokosewitschii in their background. But none was a typical garden peony, and few if any improved on the yellow color of P. mlokosewitschii itself. Then, at mid-century, a dentist who practiced in Kensington, Maryland, just across the creek from my garden, produced the then famous hybrid 'Claire de Lune'. 'Claire' created a sensation in the peony world because it was the first undoubted hybrid between Paeonia mlokosewitschii and P. lactiflora (the common garden peony). Peony enthusiasts of the time were desperate for yellow-flowered garden peonies: some of the cultivars described as having yellow highlights back then owed their "yellow color" to the reflection of light from the stamens! When 'Claire' was introduced, they bent over backwards to see yellow in the flower color: quite a few of them were convinced they saw it. As I know it, it's a white-flowered peony, but in cool climates perhaps it does show yellow. So what's the point of all this? When I observed the amount of yellow in the several-days-old flowers of 'Coral Charm', it reminded me that I did not know the parentage of this cultivar. I still don't. In the literature it is reported as being primarily a hybrid of 'Minnie Shaylor' crossed with various hybrids and the resulting progeny then inbred. It's the "various hybrids" part which pulls a curtain over the whole business. It's hard to believe that at least some of those "various hybrids" did not have Paeonia mlokosewitschii in their background, but I don't know for sure - yet. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where various red-flowered species-like Saunders hybrids are now blooming. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Wed May 14 13:13:48 2008 Message-Id: <001401c8b5e5$def9f300$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Paeonia 'Coral Charm' Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:13:42 +0100 Jane McGary wrote: Another interesting thing about 'Coral Charm' is that it can make new > plants from roots without an apparent growing point or crown. ... I wonder whence it derives this characteristic? As I understand it this habit is derived from P. peregrina and transmitted to its hybrids. One upon a time, while working in Holland, I ran a research nursery in the plot next to an extremely canny propagator of peonies (and other plants) who taught me many useful things. He was very careful to collect up all the broken roots of certain clones as they would make a new plant for him to sell, but once a normal lactiflora root is detached it's useless. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed May 14 13:13:40 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Wandering (peregrinating ?) peonies Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:13:47 -0500 Dear Jane and all, The ability of some peonies to develop new plants from adventitious roots was a secret long protected by some growers. 'Coral Charm' and most of the other corals have this ability to some degree. I think this trait comes from P. peregrina a bright red species from Italy east to the Balkans and Turkey. This species is one of the easiest and best of the wild peonies for home gardens. Also easy from seed. The flowers in a range of clear bright red/scarlet never open fully, but form a brilliant bowl or cup. I think the species name suggests the 'wandering 'quality of its roots and the ability to pop up here and there. The bright pink variety 'Ludovica' is another notorious adventitious peregrina kin. P. mascula and P. tenuifolia also have this ability and perhaps others. Certain woody peonies also produce active stolons to form bushy multi stemmed ground covers. I have a plant of P. mascula that covers almost a yard across from adventitious or stoloniferous new growths. The adventitious nature of some herbaceous peonies like 'Coral Charm' is a boon for propagators, but some gardeners hate it when a plant is dug out and returns the next year from scraps left behind. Wish I had a source for clusii too. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed May 14 13:14:29 2008 Message-Id: <000001c8b5e6$4b9d88a0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Paeonia 'Coral Charm' Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:16:47 -0400 Clayton brought up the topic of the significance of fragrance in peonies. I'm with you on this one, Clayton. Generally, no matter what the plant, I want the fragrant version. Roses without fragrance rarely get into this garden, and if they do they usually don't last. For the next few days I won’t leave the garden without very good reason: the noisette roses which cover the south side of the house are starting to bloom and the big Madame Gregoire Staechelin nearby is loaded with potently fragrant bloom. Scharlachglut, another powerfully fragrant rose is also blooming. All of these have the sort of fragrance which carries well on the air. Black locusts are blooming and so is mock orange. I would rather be here now than anywhere else, thank you. And the wood thrushes are back and energetically tuning their flutes up for the big performance. Yes, I’m fine right here. I feel the same way about peonies, and I probably would not have bought peony 'Coral Charm' if I had known about the scent: my garden is just too small for plants which don't meet my criteria. But, haven't I learned something here? 'Coral Charm' is undeniably one of the most beautiful peonies I've seen: I guess I can learn to hold my nose now and then. Jane asked about peonies which sprout from the roots severed from the crown. We had a discussion about this last year (or was it the year before). At that time I did not realize that this occurred except in one or two wild peonies. But someone chimed in to report that indeed there are cultivars which have this ability - much to the delight of those propagating them. Archive search! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From JFlintoff@aol.com Wed May 14 14:56:11 2008 Message-Id: <8CA840B40B9A25B-1F08-88@webmail-nb14.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: Hyacinthoides Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:55:46 -0400 ?? My rummaging through old gardens in the Puget Sound area, especially Tacoma and Seattle,Washington, has produced only one?finding?of what appears to be pure Hyacinthoides hispanica and one of H. non-scripta.? All the other plants appear to be various forms of the hybrid H x massartiana ( H. x variabilis? ).? There must be millions of them here locally. ???? Some of the trade material of H non-scripta that I've seen or grown seems to be hybridized as well.? ? ???? Hycinthoides?? ' Rose Queen ' , ' Dainty Maid ' and ' Excelsior ' all appear to be manifestations of H. x massartiana. J. John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washigton, USA Zone 8 From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Wed May 14 16:53:36 2008 Message-Id: <021e01c8b604$90419280$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: Paeone Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:53:29 +0100 Its nice to see divergence from monocot bulbs from time to time especially when it raises the subject of these beautiful Paeones. I am rapidly bringing together a collection of botanical species here, the hybrids and multibrids are a way too blousy for my tastes and anyway this is a botanic garden after all so they would be seriously out of place here. Our peonies are starting into flower just now and the first one to kick off was P. mascula ssp. russoi [I saw somewhere that this is a synonym for another but can't find the reference, is a large sharp clear pink open cup which last year got clobbered by frost before finishing but is now nearly over, its always first in and out. P. mairei is next up and in full throttle right now with masses of darker shades of pink upward and also out facing cups. Just literally beginning for the first time this year is P mascula ssp. willmottiae now this has stunning white blooms, a wee bit shy to open wide so far but as its the first year non too sure if that's normal, but as white globes they stand out from a distance like large tennis balls . P. tenuifolia seems to be ready to flower very soon, probably by the weekend and one of my clear favourites partly because of the unique leaves. Others such as P.P. peregrina, lutea, delavayi, potaninii, ludlowii, rockii, emodii, lactiflora, obovata, etc, etc have still some way to go as they are barely out of the ground so far. I await P. ostii each year with great pleasure but it is also currently still well 'back'. Generally plants of this stype I try to plant in groups of three or five for each species and accession per species, always wild origin seed originated..... the wait is worth it, and it helps ensure a minimum degree of genetic diversity is maintained for the future. I do have P. clusii as young plants but am ready for a disappointment, coming from Crete in the Mediterranean I suspect I am too far north, too cold and too wet, this taxon does not "do" damp maritime climates but I reckon nothing ventured nothing gained. There is also a putative hybrid here between P.tenuifolia and P. a.n.other which is due to flower too, it grew from the same batch of seed as P. tenuifolia and has lovely mid pink flowers with a cut leaved foliage mid way. A large batch of seed arrived this spring from China allegedly sold as P. rockii with the caveat "open pollinated may contain hybrids" We shall see, anyway a couple of hundred of the seed has been sown with lots more in the fridge if anyone wants a few to try, getting them officially into the USA / Canada might require some ingenuity. Iain From leo@possi.org Wed May 14 20:53:44 2008 Message-Id: <21201.209.180.132.162.1210812814.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Fragrance/Peonies Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:53:34 -0700 (MST) Clayton wrote > ...I still have to > conclude, if it doesn't have fragrance, > I usually will pass it by. > ... > Just curious if anyone else feels the same way? I feel this way about lots of groups of plants. I don't plant roses unless they have a very strong fragrance, and I don't mean the ones that smell like apple leaves. I've learned not to trust Armstrong's fragrance descriptions. When browsing bulb seed listings I start with genera and species listed as having strong fragrances. If I still like the genus after the first ones bloom I might get some non-fragrant ones later. Peonies just won't grow here in Phoenix, but I remember them from the Midwest. My former neighbor across the street went to law school with the proprietor of Cricket Hill Peonies (mostly tree peonies), who sent a large tree peony to my neighbor early one spring. It bloomed, which enticed me into buying a smaller tree peony that fall. Both lasted until about the next July, even though planted in spots with dappled shade and excellent drainage. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu May 15 12:04:30 2008 Message-Id: From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Sulphate of Potash Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 03:07:36 -0400 From: Judy Glattstein Date: May 14, 2008 11:58:45 AM PDT To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Sulphate of Potash Just from curiosity I e-mailed John Harrison at Espoma, asking about sulphate of potash. Here is his reply. ------------------------------------------- < snip > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for your mail. Bulbs like all plants are best fed with a complete plant food rather than a single ingredient. We produce a product called Bulb-tone that will provide all major, minor, and trace nutrients required. A fact sheet is attached. Sulfate of potash (SOP) is a mined mineral with an analysis of 0-0-50. It is generally considered an acceptable input for organic gardening and agriculture. It is superior to the muriate because it is lower in salts that can harm plants (particularly tender emerging roots of bulbs). We no longer produce the SOP as a single ingredient. We do use the material as a potassium source in our blended plant foods. We do have the muriate, but plan to discontinue that as well. ------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- Judy, the ever-curious in New Jersey From msittner@mcn.org Thu May 15 09:56:24 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080515063424.01619050@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions--Lachenalia Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 06:56:00 -0700 Hi, I've been working on enlarging the Lachenalia pages on the wiki (split them up more and added three new ones so none would take too long to load) and have added a lot of new pictures from a number of sources, both additional species pictures and additional pictures of species already illustrated. It would take too long to note all the additions with links so I'll just give you the link to the index page and the table and those people who are interested in Lachenalia can check it out. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lachenalia New species added : L. angelica, congesta, gillettii (from seed from a reliable source, but not the color expected so could be something else I suppose if any experts want to check), isopetala, longibracteata, mediana, namibiensis, salteri (in bud as it is just about to bloom), zeyheri Also illustrated (we had text from Don Journet but no pictures) now are L. arbuthnotiae, L. bolusii, L. fistulosa, L. framesii We still have no pictures for described species L. algoensis and L. schelpei so if anyone has pictures of these two species, we'd love to add them to the wiki. Other species already illustrated with just a picture or maybe two now have additional pictures. Some unknown person uploaded a picture of L. zebrina very recently and needs to edit the page and add the credits for it. Mary Sue Coastal Northern California where it's going to be unusually blazing hot today and we have no air conditioning. It may finish off some of my bulbs and open up some of the Calochortus. Having a drier than usual spring this year has meant a good year for Watsonia coccinea (perhaps as I'm never sure why some years they come up and other years they do not). I'm very fond of this species which is a nice color and nice size and does not spread too much and I hope it will hold on for another day or two. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu May 15 10:51:09 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Hyacinthoides & T. sprengeri. Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:29:02 -0500 Dear all, Taking a closer look here, it does appear that ' Dainty Maid ' , an "alba" and ' Excelsior ' are manifestations of H. x massartiana. I also have at least a typical blue H. non-scripta and one small clump of H hispanica, but the latter is not very hardy and does not bloom much. Of course none seed around here and are very well behaved in this climate. It is nice to see these bulbs blooming late after most of the spring bulb 'surge' (to borrow a term). And speaking of late bulbs, flower buds are now forming on the latest of al tulips T. sprengeri and I am wishing I had more. It doesn't seem to seed around (either) and does not clump up. It does mark the final show of tulip season. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu May 15 10:51:07 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Fragrance Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:39:11 -0500 I guess I have to put in my 2 cents that I really don't care if a plant has fragrant flowers or not. The form, color and quantity of flowers is far more important and fragrance is a plus. I can certainly enjoy coral peonies (including the just finished 'Coral Fay' a real beauty with single hot coral flowers) and I don't find their fragrance to carry much in any case. Since I rarely cut any flowers, but prefer to enjoy them in place on the plant and in the garden, again fragrance is a peripheral plus. Plants grown for fragrance have to have other qualities too like Viburnum (esp carlesii) Daphne (various) and Lilacs all fragrant enough to scent large areas of the garden without having to stuff my nose into their centers. Each has excellent form, nice abundant flowers and ease of care. If a plant can carry its charms without fragrance, no fragrance will win it over for me. And some plants with an abundant 'nasty' fragrance such as Dracunculus and other aroids, also doesn't necessarily restrain my enthusiasm for their other qualities. Right now the Peony 'Windflower' is charming me endlessly by its small, anemone-like blooms on elegant cut foliage in light shade. I stop every time I walk near it to admire its whole vision of balance, proportion and dignified beauty. I don't have a clue if it is even fragrant at all. Never sniffed it. And allergies have stuffed my nose enough to make fragrance a theory only. best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Thu May 15 11:07:35 2008 Message-Id: From: giorgio pozzi Subject: Beauty and Fragrance Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:07:32 +0200 Il giorno 15/mag/08, alle ore 16:39, James Waddick ha scritto: > The form, color and quantity > of flowers is far more important and fragrance is a plus I agree with James, due to my love for Arisaema which have no scent even if someone writes A.candidissimum has fine/light scent in first blooming, I tried to capture that scent but couldn't sniff anything..... However, walking in the lawn fiftheen days ago near a flowerbed I setted two years ago, the scent of a rich clump of Narcissus Poeticus, (about 200 flowers), that of yellow Azalaea Mollis and that of Wisteria sinensis alba, were all around and even without looking directly to the flowers I was able to "see" them, now all of them have whitered and only Convallaria majalis may spread a pleasant scent there... waiting for Lilium....now about 60/70 cm. tall . Giorgio Pozzi Travedona (VA) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed May 14 12:52:05 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080515095043.017091e0@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Paeonia 'Coral Charm' Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:54:31 -0700 Jim McKenney wrote about Paeonia 'Coral Charm'. Yes, it does have an unpleasant odor; many hybrid peonies do, even those that seem pleasant at first sniff. Another interesting thing about 'Coral Charm' is that it can make new plants from roots without an apparent growing point or crown. I found this out when I moved a large plant of it. The ends of the roots unavoidablyleft inthe ground made a whole colony of new plants, which now thrust up through a prostrate pine. I wonder whence it derives this characteristic? The only other peonies I grow that send up distant plants are the shrubby P. delavayi and P. lutea. While we're on the subject of peonies, if there's anybody out there who has P. clusii, I will trade almost anything for propagating material from it. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From haweha@hotmail.com Thu May 15 14:06:44 2008 Message-Id: From: Hans-Werner Hammen Subject: Sulphate of Potash Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:06:33 +0000 A high grade fertilizer should not contain "Muriate of Potash" (KCl) and Chlorides at all, respectively except as the counter Anion for some cationic trace elements. I agree with John Harrison that plants should be nourished exclusively with well balanced complete formula fertilizers. And, I agree with Veronica Read ("Hippeastrum -The Gardeners' Amaryllis) that a very good formula (for knight star lilies) if not the perfect (for bulbous plants in general) is something like 14-10-27 that is a relation of N(total of N from Nitrate and Ammonium) : P(Phosphorous as P2O5) : K (as K2O) like 1.4 : 1 : 2.7 When I examined a yet older list of established formulas provided for various commercial crop on hydroponic cultivation / cultivation on rockwool http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/1357.jpg (from Byk & Sonneveld 1981) I calculated the following relation of nutrients out of the mean fertilizer ion supplies: c(N) : c(P2O5) : c(K2O): c(MgO) : c(CaO) : c(S) = 150 : 90 : 268 : 34 : 164 : 34 each in mg/L and related to phosphorus m(N) : m(P2O5) : m(K2O):m(MgO) : m(CaO) : m(S)= 1.7 : 1 : 3.0 : 0.4 : 1.8 : 0.4 You see 1.7 : 1 : 3.0 this is close to the suggestion of Veronica :) Without consideration of trace elements you can easily compose a complete formula from only 4 in words FOUR different salts. This formula is meant to be fully water soluble and therefore cannot contain Calcium salts (these would precipitate with phosphate when the stock solution is prepared. Calcium ions are assumed to be supplied in sufficient amounts with the tap water): Mix thoroughly 353 g KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate) 170 g KH2PO4 (Potassium Dihydrogenphosphate), 240 g NH4NO3 (Ammonium Nitrate) und 185 g MgSO4x7H2O (Bittersalt=Epsomsalt) and obtain 948 grams of a complete fertilizer formula of N:P:K[:Mg:S] (more exactly: N : P2O5 : K2O [: MgO : S]) like 14 : 9 : 24 [: 3 : 3] that is, again very close to Veronica's formula AND additionally Magnesium is provided too. Note that tap water is often too low in Magnesium. Furthermore, a fertilizer which is adequately rich in potassium must provide Magnesium too because potassium can effectuate a Magnesium deficiency because of competition of K+ and Mg++ ions for uptake by the plant. Note that sulphate of potash is NOT included in this formula :) :p Happy gardening, and mixing your complete formulas (with moderate phosphorus' contents which diametrally oppose certain transatlantic miraculous growth-formulas with astronomic middle numbers) *giggling* Hans-Werner > > From: Judy Glattstein > Date: May 14, 2008 11:58:45 AM PDT > Just from curiosity I e-mailed John Harrison at Espoma, asking about > sulphate of potash. Here is his reply. > Thank you for your mail. > > Bulbs like all plants are best fed with a complete plant food rather > than a single ingredient. We produce a product called Bulb-tone that > will provide all major, minor, and trace nutrients required. A fact > sheet is attached. > > Sulfate of potash (SOP) is a mined mineral with an analysis of 0-0-50. > It is generally considered an acceptable input for organic gardening and > agriculture. It is superior to the muriate because it is lower in salts > that can harm plants (particularly tender emerging roots of bulbs). > We no longer produce the SOP as a single ingredient. We do use the > material as a potassium source in our blended plant foods. We do have > the muriate, but plan to discontinue that as well. _________________________________________________________________ Keine Mail mehr verpassen! Jetzt gibt’s Hotmail fürs Handy! http://www.gowindowslive.com/minisites/mail/mobilemail.aspx?Locale=de-de From auchgourishgardens@falsyde.sol.co.uk Thu May 15 15:08:04 2008 Message-Id: <01e501c8b6be$f7e6f910$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: PAEONE POST SCRIPT Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:07:49 +0100 I was a wee bit concerned to read all you folks commenting about Paeone smells, good or bad, as I thought I had a tolerably acceptable sense of smell so today I went around all the Paeones currently in flower, admittedly many more still to do so, but not one of them has a discernable smell, to me, of any sort. Is it at all possible that scent in Paeone is effected / produced by variable soil types or chemical versus organic fertilisers? Apart from P.macrophylla [related to P. wittmanniana] are there any other P. species which are scented? I regret I don't have the Waddick & Halda book so I can't check, maybe Jim can elucidate. I would imagine mixing / messing up [take your pick] species in pursuit of hybrid Valhalla might result in bad smells but smells of any sort must be derived from some source surely Iain By the way for those seduced by lovely scented plants it take a lot to beat Syringa swegenzowii. Anybody not moved to amazement is not entitled to share the same air as the rest of the world's normal folk, it is a stunner !!!!!!!!! There are almost all the Syringa species in the collection here and nothing can beat it although several come close ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 64, Issue 25 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. re Hyacinthoides (jflintoff@aol.com) > 2. Paeone (Iain Brodie of Falsyde) > 3. Re: Fragrance/Peonies (Leo A. Martin) > 4. Wiki Additions--Lachenalia (Mary Sue Ittner) > 5. Re: Fragrance (James Waddick) > 6. Re: re Hyacinthoides & T. sprengeri. (James Waddick) > 7. Re: Beauty and Fragrance (giorgio pozzi) > 8. Sulphate of Potash (pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:55:46 -0400 > From: jflintoff@aol.com > Subject: [pbs] re Hyacinthoides > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <8CA840B40B9A25B-1F08-88@webmail-nb14.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > ?? My rummaging through old gardens in the Puget Sound area, especially > Tacoma and Seattle,Washington, has produced only one?finding?of what > appears to be pure Hyacinthoides hispanica and one of H. non-scripta.? All > the other plants appear to be various forms of the hybrid H x massartiana > ( H. x variabilis? ).? There must be millions of them here locally. > ???? Some of the trade material of H non-scripta that I've seen or grown > seems to be hybridized as well.? > ? > ???? Hycinthoides?? ' Rose Queen ' , ' Dainty Maid ' and ' Excelsior ' all > appear to be manifestations of H. x massartiana. > > J. John Flintoff > Vashon Island,Washigton, USA > Zone 8 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:53:29 +0100 > From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" > Subject: [pbs] Paeone > To: > Message-ID: <021e01c8b604$90419280$0501a8c0@homepc> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Its nice to see divergence from monocot bulbs from time to time especially > when it raises the subject of these beautiful Paeones. > > I am rapidly bringing together a collection of botanical species here, the > hybrids and multibrids are a way too blousy for my tastes and anyway this > is a botanic garden after all so they would be seriously out of place > here. Our peonies are starting into flower just now and the first one to > kick off was P. mascula ssp. russoi [I saw somewhere that this is a > synonym for another but can't find the reference, is a large sharp clear > pink open cup which last year got clobbered by frost before finishing but > is now nearly over, its always first in and out. P. mairei is next up and > in full throttle right now with masses of darker shades of pink upward and > also out facing cups. Just literally beginning for the first time this > year is P mascula ssp. willmottiae now this has stunning white blooms, a > wee bit shy to open wide so far but as its the first year non too sure if > that's normal, but as white globes they stand out from a distance like > large tennis balls . P. tenuifolia seems to b > e ready to flower very soon, probably by the weekend and one of my clear > favourites partly because of the unique leaves. Others such as P.P. > peregrina, lutea, delavayi, potaninii, ludlowii, rockii, emodii, > lactiflora, obovata, etc, etc have still some way to go as they are barely > out of the ground so far. I await P. ostii each year with great pleasure > but it is also currently still well 'back'. > > Generally plants of this stype I try to plant in groups of three or five > for each species and accession per species, always wild origin seed > originated..... the wait is worth it, and it helps ensure a minimum degree > of genetic diversity is maintained for the future. I do have P. clusii as > young plants but am ready for a disappointment, coming from Crete in the > Mediterranean I suspect I am too far north, too cold and too wet, this > taxon does not "do" damp maritime climates but I reckon nothing ventured > nothing gained. There is also a putative hybrid here between P.tenuifolia > and P. a.n.other which is due to flower too, it grew from the same batch > of seed as P. tenuifolia and has lovely mid pink flowers with a cut leaved > foliage mid way. A large batch of seed arrived this spring from China > allegedly sold as P. rockii with the caveat "open pollinated may contain > hybrids" We shall see, anyway a couple of hundred of the seed has been > sown with lots more in the fridge if anyone wan > ts a few to try, getting them officially into the USA / Canada might > require some ingenuity. > > > Iain > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:53:34 -0700 (MST) > From: "Leo A. Martin" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fragrance/Peonies > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <21201.209.180.132.162.1210812814.squirrel@possi.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Clayton wrote > >> ...I still have to >> conclude, if it doesn't have fragrance, >> I usually will pass it by. >> ... >> Just curious if anyone else feels the same way? > > I feel this way about lots of groups of plants. I don't plant roses unless > they have a very strong fragrance, and I don't mean the ones that smell > like apple leaves. I've learned not to trust Armstrong's fragrance > descriptions. When browsing bulb seed listings I start with genera and > species listed as having strong fragrances. If I still like the genus > after the first ones bloom I might get some non-fragrant ones later. > > Peonies just won't grow here in Phoenix, but I remember them from the > Midwest. My former neighbor across the street went to law school with the > proprietor of Cricket Hill Peonies (mostly tree peonies), who sent a large > tree peony to my neighbor early one spring. It bloomed, which enticed me > into buying a smaller tree peony that fall. Both lasted until about the > next July, even though planted in spots with dappled shade and excellent > drainage. > > Leo Martin > Phoenix Arizona USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 06:56:00 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] Wiki Additions--Lachenalia > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080515063424.01619050@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi, > > I've been working on enlarging the Lachenalia pages on the wiki (split > them > up more and added three new ones so none would take too long to load) and > have added a lot of new pictures from a number of sources, both additional > species pictures and additional pictures of species already illustrated. > It > would take too long to note all the additions with links so I'll just give > you the link to the index page and the table and those people who are > interested in Lachenalia can check it out. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lachenalia > New species added : L. angelica, congesta, gillettii (from seed from a > reliable source, but not the color expected so could be something else I > suppose if any experts want to check), isopetala, longibracteata, > mediana, > namibiensis, salteri (in bud as it is just about to bloom), zeyheri > > Also illustrated (we had text from Don Journet but no pictures) now are L. > arbuthnotiae, L. bolusii, L. fistulosa, L. framesii > > We still have no pictures for described species L. algoensis and L. > schelpei so if anyone has pictures of these two species, we'd love to add > them to the wiki. > > Other species already illustrated with just a picture or maybe two now > have > additional pictures. > > Some unknown person uploaded a picture of L. zebrina very recently and > needs to edit the page and add the credits for it. > > Mary Sue > Coastal Northern California where it's going to be unusually blazing hot > today and we have no air conditioning. It may finish off some of my bulbs > and open up some of the Calochortus. Having a drier than usual spring this > year has meant a good year for Watsonia coccinea (perhaps as I'm never > sure > why some years they come up and other years they do not). I'm very fond > of > this species which is a nice color and nice size and does not spread too > much and I hope it will hold on for another day or two. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:39:11 -0500 > From: James Waddick > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fragrance > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > I guess I have to put in my 2 cents that I really don't care > if a plant has fragrant flowers or not. The form, color and quantity > of flowers is far more important and fragrance is a plus. I can > certainly enjoy coral peonies (including the just finished 'Coral > Fay' a real beauty with single hot coral flowers) and I don't find > their fragrance to carry much in any case. > Since I rarely cut any flowers, but prefer to enjoy them in > place on the plant and in the garden, again fragrance is a peripheral > plus. > Plants grown for fragrance have to have other qualities too > like Viburnum (esp carlesii) Daphne (various) and Lilacs all fragrant > enough to scent large areas of the garden without having to stuff my > nose into their centers. Each has excellent form, nice abundant > flowers and ease of care. > > If a plant can carry its charms without fragrance, no > fragrance will win it over for me. And some plants with an abundant > 'nasty' fragrance such as Dracunculus and other aroids, also doesn't > necessarily restrain my enthusiasm for their other qualities. > Right now the Peony 'Windflower' is charming me endlessly by > its small, anemone-like blooms on elegant cut foliage in light shade. > I stop every time I walk near it to admire its whole vision of > balance, proportion and dignified beauty. I don't have a clue if it > is even fragrant at all. Never sniffed it. > > And allergies have stuffed my nose enough to make fragrance a > theory only. best Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:29:02 -0500 > From: James Waddick > Subject: Re: [pbs] re Hyacinthoides & T. sprengeri. > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Dear all, > Taking a closer look here, it does appear that ' Dainty Maid > ' , an "alba" and ' Excelsior ' are manifestations of H. x > massartiana. > I also have at least a typical blue H. non-scripta and one > small clump of H hispanica, but the latter is not very hardy and does > not bloom much. > > Of course none seed around here and are very well behaved in > this climate. It is nice to see these bulbs blooming late after most > of the spring bulb 'surge' (to borrow a term). > > And speaking of late bulbs, flower buds are now forming on > the latest of al tulips T. sprengeri and I am wishing I had more. It > doesn't seem to seed around (either) and does not clump up. It does > mark the final show of tulip season. > > > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:07:32 +0200 > From: giorgio pozzi > Subject: Re: [pbs] Beauty and Fragrance > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > > Il giorno 15/mag/08, alle ore 16:39, James Waddick ha scritto: >> The form, color and quantity >> of flowers is far more important and fragrance is a plus > > > I agree with James, due to my love for Arisaema which have no scent > even if someone writes > A.candidissimum has fine/light scent in first blooming, I tried to > capture that scent but couldn't > sniff anything..... > However, walking in the lawn fiftheen days ago near a flowerbed I > setted two years ago, > the scent of a rich clump of Narcissus Poeticus, (about 200 flowers), > that of yellow Azalaea Mollis and that of Wisteria sinensis alba, > were all around > and even without looking directly to the flowers I was able to "see" > them, > now all of them have whitered and only Convallaria majalis may spread > a pleasant scent there... waiting for Lilium....now about 60/70 cm. > tall . > > > > Giorgio Pozzi > Travedona (VA) > Italy > zone 7/8 > > studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 03:07:36 -0400 > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Sulphate of Potash > To: voltaire@islandnet.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > > From: Judy Glattstein > Date: May 14, 2008 11:58:45 AM PDT > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Sulphate of Potash > > > Just from curiosity I e-mailed John Harrison at Espoma, asking about > sulphate of potash. Here is his reply. > > ------------------------------------------- > < > snip > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thank you for your mail. > > Bulbs like all plants are best fed with a complete plant food rather > than a single ingredient. We produce a product called Bulb-tone that > will provide all major, minor, and trace nutrients required. A fact > sheet is attached. > > Sulfate of potash (SOP) is a mined mineral with an analysis of 0-0-50. > It is generally considered an acceptable input for organic gardening and > agriculture. It is superior to the muriate because it is lower in salts > that can harm plants (particularly tender emerging roots of bulbs). > We no longer produce the SOP as a single ingredient. We do use the > material as a potassium source in our blended plant foods. We do have > the muriate, but plan to discontinue that as well. > ------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Judy, the ever-curious in New Jersey > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 64, Issue 25 > *********************************** From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu May 15 15:22:13 2008 Message-Id: <482C8D64.4000508@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Wiki Additions--Lachenalia Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:22:12 -0700 Dear Mary Sue: I appreciate your efforts and those of your team on the wiki greatly. This area has become a major resource to bulb-lovers and provides a great site to visit for fun or research. Thank you so much. Marguerite Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > H From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu May 15 15:26:38 2008 Message-Id: <482C8E6E.8020808@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: PBS wiki-updates to Calochorutus Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:26:38 -0700 My daughter and I took our first trip out along a little used road in the Cuyamacas on Mother's day. The Calochortus were just beginning to bloom. We say one C. albus, and several C. splendens. Those on my own property either haven't started yet, or have skipped a year. They usually show up a little closer to June. So if you are in the neighborhood, they should be showing in the next few weeks. Marguerite From crinum@libero.it Thu May 15 15:59:16 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Prints of Clivia Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:59:11 +0200 Hi All. I am looking for prints of Clivia on benalf of a friend of mine who is writing an article for the Yearbook of the Clivia Society, South Africa. There is anobody that have such prints from ancient books, L'Illustration Horticole, Le Belgique Horticole, Flore des Serres and other similar periodics of last centuries. May provide a scan? Of course source will be credit. Thank you Alberto Italy From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Thu May 15 16:57:24 2008 Message-Id: <024601c8b6ce$491b1910$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: Off topic with apologies Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:57:28 +0100 Today it became apparent that we have a bamboo - Fargesia nitida - which is flowering itself to death. I wondered if anyone else has heard of this species flowering elsewhere as I understand flowering in bamboo, by species, is pretty universal regardless of where in the world it happens. In due course I will gather up as much seed as seems sensible for use here in our nursery at Auchgourish Botanic Garden however if anyone else has a notion to grow some pretty 'grass' do let me know although I doubt it would be much use in a roll up. Iain From pameladaz@msn.com Thu May 15 17:26:29 2008 Message-Id: From: "Pamela Slate" Subject: Prints of Clivia Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:26:18 -0700 Alberto, Try contacting David Mabberly, Director of the University of Washington Botanic Gardens. His email address is davidjm@u.washington.edu He wrote a wonderful book called The Plant-Book but is also a renowned authority on plant art. He may be able to help you and if not, will probably know who can. Good luck. Pamela Pamela Slate P.O. Box 5134 Carefree AZ 85377 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Grossi Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:59 PM To: pbs Subject: [pbs] Prints of Clivia Hi All. I am looking for prints of Clivia on benalf of a friend of mine who is writing an article for the Yearbook of the Clivia Society, South Africa. There is anobody that have such prints from ancient books, L'Illustration Horticole, Le Belgique Horticole, Flore des Serres and other similar periodics of last centuries. May provide a scan? Of course source will be credit. Thank you Alberto Italy _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu May 15 17:31:59 2008 Message-Id: <008401c8b6d3$1a641360$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Prints of Clivia Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 22:31:56 +0100 David Mabberley is now Keeper of the Herbarium at the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, but you are right in all other details! Part of his duties there includes control of the treasure trove of botanical art at Kew. The third edition of his magnum opus, now entitled 'Mabberley's Plant Book' has just been published. I have yet to acquire a copy, but it is an urgent priority, as no other botanical book compares for its wealth of information. I have two copies of the second edition, one in the living room and one in my study. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pamela Slate" > Alberto, > Try contacting David Mabberly, Director of the University of Washington > Botanic > Gardens. His email address is davidjm@u.washington.edu He wrote a > wonderful > book called The Plant-Book but is also a renowned authority on plant art. > He > may be able to help you and if not, will probably know who can. > > Good luck. > Pamela From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu May 15 17:34:21 2008 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0BE084B9@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Prints of Clivia Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 16:35:25 -0500 Hi All: David Mabberley has moved to Kew to take charge of their library and herbarium collections. Unfortunately I do not have an email address for him at Kew. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Pamela Slate Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:26 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Prints of Clivia Alberto, Try contacting David Mabberly, Director of the University of Washington Botanic Gardens. His email address is davidjm@u.washington.edu He wrote a wonderful book called The Plant-Book but is also a renowned authority on plant art. He may be able to help you and if not, will probably know who can. Good luck. Pamela Pamela Slate P.O. Box 5134 Carefree AZ 85377 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Grossi Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:59 PM To: pbs Subject: [pbs] Prints of Clivia Hi All. I am looking for prints of Clivia on benalf of a friend of mine who is writing an article for the Yearbook of the Clivia Society, South Africa. There is anobody that have such prints from ancient books, L'Illustration Horticole, Le Belgique Horticole, Flore des Serres and other similar periodics of last centuries. May provide a scan? Of course source will be credit. Thank you Alberto Italy _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 7:24 AM From ted.wilcox@btinternet.com Thu May 15 17:58:21 2008 Message-Id: <200805152258.46543.ted.wilcox@btinternet.com> From: "Dr E.J. Wilcox" Subject: Prints of Clivia Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 22:58:46 +0100 On Thursday 15 May 2008 22:26:18 Pamela Slate wrote: > Alberto, > Try contacting David Mabberly, Director of the University of Washington > Botanic Gardens. His email address is davidjm@u.washington.edu He wrote a > wonderful book called The Plant-Book but is also a renowned authority on > plant art. He may be able to help you and if not, will probably know who > can. > > Good luck. > Pamela > > Pamela Slate > P.O. Box 5134 > Carefree AZ 85377 > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Alberto Grossi > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:59 PM > To: pbs > Subject: [pbs] Prints of Clivia > > Hi All. > I am looking for prints of Clivia on benalf of a friend of mine who is > writing an article for the Yearbook of the Clivia Society, South Africa. > There is anobody that have such prints from ancient books, L'Illustration > Horticole, Le Belgique Horticole, Flore des Serres and other similar > periodics of last centuries. May provide a scan? > Of course source will be credit. > Thank you > > Alberto > Italy > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 > 7:24 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 > 7:24 AM From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Thu May 15 18:10:27 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: PAEONE POST SCRIPT Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 16:10:41 -0600 Iain said: By the way for those seduced by lovely scented plants it take a lot to beat Syringa swegenzowii. Anybody not moved to amazement is not entitled to share the same air as the rest of the world's normal folk, it is a stunner !!!!!!!!! There are almost all the Syringa species in the collection here and nothing can beat it although several come close I think that scent from a flower is different from person to person, and I admit that I am not normal and will start holding my breath now! I can not stand the smell of Syringa, the only reason they exist in my garden is because they form a good deer barrier. Linda Foulis Zone 3 Canada From antennaria@charter.net Thu May 15 20:10:50 2008 Message-Id: <20080515201048.AEEXJ.124616.root@fepweb15> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Iris & Tulip miscellany Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:10:48 -0700 I've been enjoying the numerous PBS digests and photographic additions. On the heels of my last message, I have some more photos to share, most taken within the last few days. I wrote about Iris cristata 'Edgar Anderson, but forgot to give the whole link, here it is. It's the largest and tallest of the many Iris cristata cultivars I grow. I like the crisp wavy edges to the petals. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_cristata_Edgar_Anderson_2008a.jpg One of several exciting dwarf Chinese woodland Iris available from Darrell Probst's Garden Vision nursery (http://home.earthlink.net/~darrellpro/) is Iris henryi, only very recently introduced into cultivation in the US. Today I counted over 50 flowers of the most delicate pale powder blue on 3" stems, accented with bright yellow signal spots. The freshly opened flowers look like blue butterflies, the fully open blooms looking more propeller-like. I grow this at the top of a shaded enbankment (dry), in a spot that gets a few hours direct sunlight. The leaves are exceptionally narrow, building up into a tough sod. Wonderful! (photo taken today, 5/15/08) http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_henryi_2008c.jpg Growing nearby are two other dwarf chinese species, the golden I. minutoaura and white I. odaesanesis. In my last posting, I included two links to the tiny Iris minutoaurea, but couldn't resist sharing a photo taken yesterday where the sun brough out more flowers, a miniature spectacle just 2" tall. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_minutoaurea_2008d.jpg A number of seedlings have appeared "downstream" of these plants, at the base of the enbankment. None have flowered yet, but I hope for hybrids. Darrell tells me that he had tried hand pollinating these chinese species with crosses amongst themselves and with Iris cristata, but no hybrid results yet. Another species introduced by Darrell Probst and available from his nursery list, is I. koreana. In his nursery it grows into large patches similar to I. cristata, except the flowers are bright yellow. I almost lost my plant due to being in too dry a location, and vole/chipmunk tunnelling, so last fall I moved it to a new spot, and while small, it flowered well and is still in flower. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_koreana_2008a.jpg Several tulips have been enjoyable over the past week and a half. The tiny Tulipa pulchellus humilis is adorable, with long-lasting tricolor blooms on 3" stems. I particularly like the blue center and dark anthers. Thanks Dave! http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_pulchellus_humilis_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_pulchellus_humilis_2008b.jpg ...and a profile view: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_pulchellus_humilis_2008c.jpg There are two miniature tulipa cultivars I grow and like very much, 'Little Beauty' (red) and 'Little Princess' (orange). It seems that 'Little Beauty' must have come from T. pulchellus humilis lines, with that same pale halo and blue center, only a truer red color. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_Little_Beauty_2008a Tulipa vvedenskyi never ceases to dazzle the eye, with a flaming orange red goblet on a 2" stem, and those remarkable wavy silvery-blue leaves, a first class miniature. Here are two views take a few days ago, although it is still in top form today. The first is a profile view, the second an overhead view: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_vvedenskyi_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_vvedenskyi_2008b.jpg One of my all time favorites is Tulipa clusiana 'Lady Jane'. While tallish (16-18") it has narrow grayish flowers that allows the graceful flower form to carry the day, the blooms looking oversized for their modest carriage. These have been in bloom for 2 weeks now, photos taken this past weekend. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_clusiana_LadyJane_2008b.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_clusiana_LadyJane_2008c.jpg ... as with most tulips, the flowers close up within minutes of shade reaching them: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_clusiana_LadyJane_2008d.jpg Relatively new to my garden is the woodland tulip, T. sylvestris (thanks Jim!). I have planted these in two locations, one much drier than the other. In the dry spot, they have flowers (just a flower here or there) and little increase. In the most spot, the have romped and increased a lot, but no flowers... have to keep an eye on that one. Nice bright yellow fragrant flowers on 12-16" stems, semi-nodding, lovely. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_sylvestris_2008b.jpg ... photo showing the whole plant, not a great photo, but... http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Tulipa_sylvestris_2008a.jpg A few miscellaneous items come to mind. Many trillium are in bloom, here's a shot of T. grandiflorum f. roseum taken today. No matter how many times I photograph this, it looks paler pink in photos than it does in reality (still using my daughter's entry-level Canon Powershot digital camera, which is not good at light-colored blooms). In reality, it is quite a good solid lively pink color. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Trillium_grand_f_roseum_2008b.jpg Another trillium that's sort of different is T. lancifolium, distinctive both for the narrow foliage and tepals, but for the swept-back posture of the leaves. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Trillium_lancifolium_2008a.jpg Still among my favorites, for it's novel stemless appearance and beautiful mottled foliage sitting right at ground level, is T. decumbens, this form from Alabama. Thanks John! http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Trillium_decumbens_upclose_2008a.jpg And to end this message on a note of an off-topic non-bulb related subject, here are two photos from my one of my very favorite trees. It may be permitted, because as a tap-rooted Magnolia, I grow numerous bulbous plants under the beneficial canopy of such trees. One of the very best yellow Magnolia hybrids, is one called 'Golden Gift', a distinctly compact, intricately branched, slow-growing tree, with M. acuminata ssp. subcordata 'Miss Honeybee' as one of it's parents. It doesn't get much better than this. The first photo is near sunset... sorry, I get home late... http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Magnolia_Golden_Gift_2008e.jpg ...here, with more sunshine is a close-up: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Magnolia_Golden_Gift_2008a.jpg Good growing to ya! Mark McDonough Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border, USDA Zone 5 antennaria@charter.net From rgb2@cornell.edu Thu May 15 20:32:32 2008 Message-Id: From: Robin Bell Subject: Paeone post script Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:32:30 -0400 I was interested in Ian's comments as I like to garden at least partly for fragrance. However, I have come to the conclusion that this is such a subjective thing, that it is almost beyond comprehension: even for two people standing in front of the same plant. For example there isn't a fragrance that I can recall (in plants) that I think of as too sweet or sickly, yet many people do express this for some of my favorites. Not only that but we know that in the biosphere our sense of smell is close to nonexistent, compared to many mammals, birds, or even insects, & very individualistic. Certainly we are at, or close to, the bottom of the pack. That is why I am very suspicious of this as a criterion for plant I.D. unless it's based on machines such as gas chromatography. I find tree peonies to be more fragrant than herbaceous, which I mostly think of as having a vaguely unpleasant smell. I don't know whether a plants fragrance is modified by cultural conditions, but, considering how many other aspects are, it would be hard for me to believe that it is not. Surely, at least as likely to compound the issue is individual (human) variation. This is both the delight & the problem. Robin Bell, Ithaca, NY . From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri May 16 00:19:02 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Paeone post script - Fragrance Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:10:51 -0500 > However, I have come to the conclusion >that this is such a subjective thing, that it is almost beyond >comprehension: even for two people standing in front of the same >plant. Dear Iain and all, Robin you took the words out of my mouth. Fragrance is not touched on in 'The Genus Paeonia' and I have already remarked on my lack of interest in the topic as key requirement. A few years ago on this forum, I wrote of my being over powered by the scent of Tulbaghia simmleri (aka T. fragrans). This was followed by comments mostly by the Late Dave Karnstedt that he could not smell anything on his. He had the typical form and mine was alba. We exchanged plants and I eventually found his just as overpowering and he found mine just as unscented as his. Cultivation? Lack of sensitivity? Variation in perception? Who knows? There's some bulbs I just prefer not to have in the house like Paper White Narcissus - just way too intense and so many night-blooming, white-flowered plants seem to have an intense odor too: Sansevieria come to mine. I freely admit to the joy of having an intense scent in the garden like Lilium formosana on a warm summer night. And yes some Lilacs (Syringa) are delightfully scented. But that's just me. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri May 16 00:19:05 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Iris & Tulip miscellany Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:18:11 -0500 Dear Mark, Love the pix. The Chinenses Series of iris comprise a small number of species that are mostly just coming into wider cultivation. Thanks for your nice pix. Try I. speculatrix if you can get your hands on some, also in this group. I have a clump Tulipa "Little Beauty' that has dozens of heads and their simultaneous bloom give a dazzling bouquet in the garden. My source listed it as T. humilis. A question about 'Lady Jane'. Is this long lived and permanent in the garden. Mine are new additions, but I certainly love the look and long bloom season. The outer rose pink color is just perfect: not too flashy, but rich and welcoming. I agree with your observations about T. sylvestris in sun and shade. Almost like two totally different plants. In sun the stems can have up to 3 flowers per stem and they barely run or clump. IN shade they run and form a sod with few small flowers. And thanks for the lovely yellow Magnolia - quite a beauty. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri May 16 01:41:19 2008 Message-Id: <916355A5-EB43-4CB2-AF55-5B811CD726D7@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Paeone post script - Fragrance Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 22:38:43 -0700 On May 15, 2008, at 5:32 PM, Robin Bell wrote: > However, I have come to the conclusion > that this is such a subjective thing, that it is almost beyond > comprehension: even for two people standing in front of the same > plant. > Certainly we are at, or close to, the bottom of the pack. That is why > I am very suspicious of this as a criterion for plant I.D. unless > it's based on machines such as gas chromatography. > I don't know whether a plants > fragrance is modified by cultural conditions, but, considering how > many other aspects are, it would be hard for me to believe that it is > not. Surely, at least as likely to compound the issue is individual > (human) variation. I know that to a certain extent, smell is subjective. And the sense of taste is also greatly affected by the sense of smell. In fact, I remember from long ago in high school biology class when we arrived in class and there were small paper strips on everyone's desk. At a certain point, the teacher told everyone to place the strip on our tongues. Immediately, more than half the class spit out the paper and made sounds of disgust, while the remaining students stared at their classmates in bewilderment because they couldn't taste anything at all. It turns out that a significant percentage (of Americans?) do not have the gene to be able to detect/taste this particular compound--at all. For the majority who do have the gene, it tastes very bitter. Since smell is a significant part of our ability to taste, it doesn't surprise me that different people can have different reactions to the same esters or other compounds that go into making the fragrance of a particular flower. It can also explain why some people don't smell any fragrance at all in some flowers that many others do detect. The point is that there are some fragrances that a large majority of all humans can detect that shouldn't be ignored just because a minority of humans can't detect it. Should we ignore the colors of some flowers just because a minority of humans can't see or distinguish certain colors? Now whether it's a pleasant fragrance or not may well be a matter of cultural conditions. So I can understand reticence with which adjectives might be used to describe the fragrance. However, I think that if a majority can detect the fragrance it ought to be noted just as a majority can detect certain tastes such as sweet or bitter or sour, and foods or fruits can certainly be aptly described including descriptions of taste. And while I still love flowers that have no fragrance that I can detect, for many reasons other than the fragrance, I also equally love flowers whose fragrance may be their most notable characteristic. So I am in the other camp that wonders why fragrance isn't also always included as yet one more component of a species' ensemble of characteristics. IMNSHO, I think it's just as important as how long or wide the tepals are or the peduncle or some other part of the flower. Just because some people can't detect the fragrance doesn't mean it's not important; it just makes it a more difficult characteristic to describe if you happen to be the botanist who is describing a new species and just happen to be missing a gene that allows you to detect the fragrance, even if the large majority of humans CAN detect it. It frustrates me to no end to read about a species new to me that doesn't have an appearance or other visible quality that strikes my fancy and so I turn down the opportunity to obtain it, only to discover some time later after the opportunity has passed that it has an amazingly wonderful fragrance that would have made me instantly snatch it up, but that was never mentioned in its description. (And yes, there are some scents that I don't find pleasing that others do (e.g., "paperwhite" Narcissus), or that are too strong and so rapidly become unpleasant in enclosed spaces. But some of these I love when growing in the right setting for that plant. One that always comes to mind is the one called night blooming jasmine (Cestrum nocturnum). I would never have chosen to grow this based on what the plant or its flowers look like. The flowers are very small and too pale greenish for my tastes and the plant is tall and gangly. And while it is too strong and unpleasant up close for me to ever bring a "bouquet" of the flowers inside in a vase, to me it is intoxicating to step outside into a yard on a warm summer night where one of these plants is blooming somewhere in the yard.) On the other hand, I was just as entranced the first time I saw a raceme of Strongylodon macrobotrys ("Jade Vine") in bloom. (Some of my friends I showed the blooms to at the Huntington this year thought it was merely an interesting curiosity and kind of weird.) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA, USDA Zone 10a From PJOSPUX@aol.com Fri May 16 01:50:47 2008 Message-Id: From: PJOSPUX@aol.com Subject: Off topic with apologies Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 01:50:36 EDT Hi Iain, I have three large clumps in Kent UK and they are all flowering prodigiously. I too am worried that that is the end of them and as they form a significant statement in my garden should be horrified to lose them . That said there are a number of new leaves appearing which | hope is a sign of intention to live. A brief trawl of the Internet indicates that this and last year saw a world wide flowering, with various comments about regrowth after being cut back and even fresh growth when dug up and discarded, so let us both hope all will be well next year. I have to say apart from curiosity close up, the overall appearance of a clump is drear. Bestest Paul From crinum@libero.it Fri May 16 02:44:25 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Prints of Clivia Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:44:24 +0200 Many thanks to all. Alberto Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Thu, 15 May 2008 22:58:46 +0100 Subject : Re: [pbs] Prints of Clivia > On Thursday 15 May 2008 22:26:18 Pamela Slate wrote: > > Alberto, > > Try contacting David Mabberly, Director of the University of Washington > > Botanic Gardens. His email address is davidjm@u.washington.edu He wrote a > > wonderful book called The Plant-Book but is also a renowned authority on > > plant art. He may be able to help you and if not, will probably know who > > can. > > > > Good luck. > > Pamela > > > > Pamela Slate > > P.O. Box 5134 > > Carefree AZ 85377 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > > On Behalf Of Alberto Grossi > > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:59 PM > > To: pbs > > Subject: [pbs] Prints of Clivia > > > > Hi All. > > I am looking for prints of Clivia on benalf of a friend of mine who is > > writing an article for the Yearbook of the Clivia Society, South Africa. > > There is anobody that have such prints from ancient books, L'Illustration > > Horticole, Le Belgique Horticole, Flore des Serres and other similar > > periodics of last centuries. May provide a scan? > > Of course source will be credit. > > Thank you > > > > Alberto > > Italy > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 > > 7:24 AM > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 > > 7:24 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > Alberto Grossi Italy From jglatt@hughes.net Fri May 16 08:11:21 2008 Message-Id: <482D79D7.7050003@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Scent Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:11:03 -0400 I like the scent of Fritillaria imperialis. My husband finds it unpleasant. But then I also like butyl mercaptan (skunk) if not fresh application - did have a de-scented skunk for a house pet for 5 years. I also do not detect fragrance from Tulbaghia simmleri (= T. fragrans). Isn't there some correlation between the ability to taste a certain flavor (as Lee Poulsen mentioned) and the ability to curl the sides of your tongue to form a sort of tube? And when my cat comes indoors on a cold winter day is there some scent of "cold" that clings to his fur for a few moments, or is it my imagination. Judy in New Jersey where the rainy morning is intensifying the scent of fresh green growth. From narad@alltel.net Fri May 16 12:08:57 2008 Message-Id: From: "Narad (Richard Eggenberger)" Subject: Tropical bulbs Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:08:20 -0400 Dear PBS members, My name is Richard Eggenberger, known as Narad in India where I am in charge of building the Gardens of the Matrimandir in Auroville, South India. There is a wealth of information on Auroville and the Matrimandir on the internet as the vision of a universal city built on the ideal of human unity. I have sent my resume to Mary Sue Ittner and have been reading with great interest your excellent articles on bulbs but am afraid I am very deep water here as my focus for the past 40 years has been tropical species. In this southern part of India the coolest night with monsoon rain and wind may hit 68 degrees Fahrenheit! Through the generosity of friends I have about 12 species and hybrids of Zephyranthes and one sp. of Habranthus. I would be most grateful if I could receive bulbs of other species and hybrids that I can carry to India when I return each year from late October to first March during the best planting season. We would like to begin a hybridizing program for the species for which I am especially fond as its spiritual significance in the language of the flowers is "Prayer'. If there are other bulbs that can adapt to this climate, 11 degrees north of the equator, hot and humid, I would be most appreciative of your suggestions. We do grow Crinum (only one or two varieties), Eurycles, Eucharis, Polianthes, and one or two species of Amaryllis that can withstand the intense heat of summer. In any case, I wanted to introduce myself and complement all of you on your expertise. Sincerely, Richard M. Eggenberger (Narad) From adam14113@ameritech.net Fri May 16 12:38:00 2008 Message-Id: <000701c8b773$0ed41040$9f208346@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 64, Issue 27 Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:36:54 -0500 Hello Alberto. For flowe4 illustrations in color from the 17th and 18th centuries I have found the library at the University of California, Berkeley, useful, also, the Library of the United States Department of Agriculture (special collections section), the Bibliotheque Nationale (France) and the Library of Congress (United States)to be most usful The last two are on line, as far as I know and can be picked up by your browser, the other two, probably. The University of California has a number of full folio size hand-colored orchid books , e.g., Bateman, and the one out of Buitenzorg which I can't remember the name of. From norwesgard@earthlink.net Fri May 16 13:26:56 2008 Message-Id: <01D74406-E682-452A-85BE-835A37C380DB@earthlink.net> From: Mary Gutierrez Subject: contacting David Mabberley Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:24:01 -0700 David Mabberley is no longer at the University of Washington, I believe he is at Kew, but I don't have contact information. Mary Gutierrez Seattle Northwest Garden News www.northwestgardennews.com From djordan68@comcast.net Fri May 16 14:42:40 2008 Message-Id: From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Tropical bulbs/Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:38:23 -0500 Hi Richard and Welcome! I'm located in Houston, Texas and have an extensive collection of Zephyranthes and Habranthus species (mostly) and hybrids too. I would welcome and invite you to email me at any time. Nice to meet another fellow rain lily grower. Debbie Houston, Texas From dells@voicenet.com Fri May 16 16:49:15 2008 Message-Id: <20080516204914.C22AF4C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Tropical bulbs/Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:48:59 -0400 Debbie and others, Richard Eggenberger is the former head (along with his wife) of The Plumeria People in Houston. So I hope that he is also growing some plumerias in India. Dell Dell Sherk, SE PA Zone 6/7 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Deborah Jordan Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:38 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Tropical bulbs/Zephyranthes and Habranthus Hi Richard and Welcome! I'm located in Houston, Texas and have an extensive collection of Zephyranthes and Habranthus species (mostly) and hybrids too. I would welcome and invite you to email me at any time. Nice to meet another fellow rain lily grower. Debbie Houston, Texas _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu May 15 18:09:39 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080516145532.0171fc58@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Hyacinthoides Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 14:57:22 -0700 A few years ago I grew Hyacinthoides non-scripta from wild-collected English seeds and now have quite a few bulbs, which I'll see if I can put on my list this summer. I also have some older garden plants that appear to be pure non-scripta. One of them somehow got into a dry, sunny bed and, astonishingly, loves it (it's heavily mulched with pea gravel, which may be keeping it moist and cool). Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri May 16 20:29:48 2008 Message-Id: <482E26E6.1040804@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Tropical bulbs Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 17:29:26 -0700 Narad (Richard Eggenberger) wrote: > I would be most grateful > if I could receive bulbs of other species and hybrids that I can carry > to India when I return each year from late October to first March > during the best planting season. We would like to begin a hybridizing > program for the species for which I am especially fond as its > spiritual significance in the language of the flowers is "Prayer'. If > there are other bulbs that can adapt to this climate, 11 degrees north > of the equator, hot and humid, I would be most appreciative of your > suggestions. We do grow Crinum (only one or two varieties), Eurycles, > Eucharis, Polianthes, and one or two species of Amaryllis that can > withstand the intense heat of summer. > > Have you looked at the amazing Zephyranthes hybrids Fadjar Marta of Jakarta Indonesia has produced? I think the climate there is similar to yours. Plant Delights Nursery carries a number of them such as Bali Beauty, Batik, Copper Mine, Fantasy Island, Jakarta Jewel, Krakatau, Lydia Luckman, Moulin Rouge, Paul Niemi, South Pacific. There is also a website where many of his hybrids are pictured: . Yucca Do Nursery also often carried a good selection of the species. I think many of the things both of these nurseries (esp. everything Yucca Do sells) carry would do just fine in your climate as well. Buried Treasures Nursery in Florida carries all kinds of tropical bulbs. There are some other nurseries as well that I can't think of right now. There are a number of Hippeastrum from Brazil that might do well in you climate. Check out Mauro Peixoto's website (he sells seeds of many of the species on his website) . Also Greg Pettit who has a nursery on the warm humid east coast of South Africa might have a lot of suggestions too. Other genera to look for might include: Griffinia Hymenocallis Trimezia Neomarica Eucrosia Many of the Ginger genera (Zingiber, Alpinia, Burbidgea, Cautleya, Costus, Etlingera, Hedychium, Kaempferia) Canna Globba Curcuma Heliconia a few Lilium Gloriosa --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat May 17 05:19:40 2008 Message-Id: <000601c8b7fe$e93722a0$4509085a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: Scent Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 11:18:03 +0200 I have a very good sense of smell and can roll my tongue,but don't care too much for the scent of Fritillaria imperialis nor the similar scent of Phuopsis stylosa.They just too much remind me of foxes! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Glattstein" To: Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:11 PM Subject: [pbs] Scent >I like the scent of Fritillaria imperialis. My husband finds it > unpleasant. But then I also like butyl mercaptan (skunk) if not fresh > application - did have a de-scented skunk for a house pet for 5 years. > > I also do not detect fragrance from Tulbaghia simmleri (= T. fragrans). > > Isn't there some correlation between the ability to taste a certain > flavor (as Lee Poulsen mentioned) and the ability to curl the sides of > your tongue to form a sort of tube? > > And when my cat comes indoors on a cold winter day is there some scent > of "cold" that clings to his fur for a few moments, or is it my > imagination. > > Judy in New Jersey where the rainy morning is intensifying the scent of > fresh green growth. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From djordan68@comcast.net Sat May 17 13:41:07 2008 Message-Id: <8ED9E63C93FC456F90CA145FB08C0648@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Tropicals/Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:36:52 -0500 Hi Lee, Since we are plugging vendors for Richard--there's another little internet bulb company that has a lot of Zephyranthes and Habranthus located about 15 miles as the crow flies from yucca do. They have a lot of the same varieties as yuccado and PDN, plus a few they don't carry. www.solasgardens.com Debbie Houston, Texas From narad@alltel.net Sat May 17 14:36:54 2008 Message-Id: <060F747E-323E-4C60-8100-B66C96D11C52@alltel.net> From: "Narad (Richard Eggenberger)" Subject: Tropical bulbs/Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 14:36:17 -0400 Dear Debbie, What a strange and beautiful world we inhabit with beauty and wonder at every turn. Mary Helen and I lived in Houston from 1981 to 1995 and became friends with many gardening folk. We built the Plumeria People which Mary Helen ran with my help on long weekends and I managed 'Nature's Window' Garden Center in Alief, then became manager of Teas Nursery in Bellaire and finally started Living Earth Technology with two partners. So, it is a delight to be able to write you about my love of rain lilies. Merrill O'Neal helped acquire some bulbs for me from the good people at YuccaDo and friends around Houston and Austin. These, along with Z. sulphurea (very self- fertile), Z. rosea, Z. robusta ( I believe) and Z. candida, which are grown extensively in northern India, were the stock for our humble beginning. Many of the introduced plants are doing quite well and wind pollination has given us a few new shades but I have a man who is willing to take up the hybridizing this fall when I return to India. I had asked Fadjar if he would donate some of his hybrids but he refused saying that he was under contract (with Plant Delight's obviously) so I was unsuccessful in acquiring any reds. Mary Helen passed away of ovarian cancer in 2002 and since that time I have devoted myself to volunteering at some of the Auroville centers in America and spend about 4-5 months in India from October to March, the optimum growing season. I wish I could remember all the kind people who helped me get started in so many areas such as plumerias from Dr. Criley in Hawaii and botanical gardens throughout Asia, and other flowering trees and fragrant shrubs from growers in Florida. You may remember Margaret a very kind and knowledgeable gardener from San Antonio (quite elderly when I knew her twenty years ago) who also collected rain lilies and discovered a method for getting them to flower without waiting for rain, Steve Lowe who is a great source of knowledge, and, of course, Merrill. I do have Habranthus robustus and it flowers magnificently in Auroville as does Z. Labuffarosa. So, we are at the very beginning of a new chapter in our horticultural life and it will be nice to correspond with you and learn. I also hope that you will be able to spare a bulb or two for the Matrimandir Gardens occasionally. Thank you so much for writing and for your welcome to me and your love of rain lilies. Richard (Narad) On 16, May 2008, at 2:38 PM, Deborah Jordan wrote: > Hi Richard and Welcome! > > I'm located in Houston, Texas and have an extensive collection of > Zephyranthes and Habranthus species (mostly) and hybrids too. I > would welcome and invite you to email me at any time. Nice to meet > another fellow rain lily grower. > > Debbie > Houston, Texas > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From narad@alltel.net Sat May 17 15:14:31 2008 Message-Id: <3BB4F1BF-16FA-4416-B88A-AA57195FC9DD@alltel.net> From: "Narad (Richard Eggenberger)" Subject: Tropical bulbs/Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 15:13:57 -0400 Dear Dell, Thank you for remembering me. We now have nearly 300 excellent cultivars of plumeria from all parts of the tropical world with many new colors and fragrances from Australia and Thailand. All the best. Richard (Narad) On 16, May 2008, at 4:48 PM, Dell Sherk wrote: > Debbie and others, > > Richard Eggenberger is the former head (along with his wife) of The > Plumeria > People in Houston. So I hope that he is also growing some plumerias in > India. > > Dell > > Dell Sherk, SE PA Zone 6/7 > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > ] > On Behalf Of Deborah Jordan > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:38 PM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Tropical bulbs/Zephyranthes and Habranthus > > Hi Richard and Welcome! > > I'm located in Houston, Texas and have an extensive collection of > Zephyranthes and Habranthus species (mostly) and hybrids too. I would > welcome and invite you to email me at any time. Nice to meet another > fellow > rain lily grower. > > Debbie > Houston, Texas > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From narad@alltel.net Sat May 17 15:20:24 2008 Message-Id: <4ED1EA9B-4FA1-4472-9F75-50FA61820416@alltel.net> From: "Narad (Richard Eggenberger)" Subject: Tropical bulbs Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 15:19:38 -0400 Dear Lee, Thank you for all the suggestions for sources. I will be contacting many of them as time permits. We do grow gingers, Curcuma, Hymenocallis and a few Heliconia and Gloriosa superba grows wild in moist areas of South India. Best regards and many thanks. Richard (Narad) On 16, May 2008, at 8:29 PM, Lee Poulsen wrote: > Narad (Richard Eggenberger) wrote: >> I would be most grateful >> if I could receive bulbs of other species and hybrids that I can >> carry >> to India when I return each year from late October to first March >> during the best planting season. We would like to begin a >> hybridizing >> program for the species for which I am especially fond as its >> spiritual significance in the language of the flowers is "Prayer'. >> If >> there are other bulbs that can adapt to this climate, 11 degrees >> north >> of the equator, hot and humid, I would be most appreciative of your >> suggestions. We do grow Crinum (only one or two varieties), Eurycles, >> Eucharis, Polianthes, and one or two species of Amaryllis that can >> withstand the intense heat of summer. >> >> > > Have you looked at the amazing Zephyranthes hybrids Fadjar Marta of > Jakarta Indonesia has produced? I think the climate there is similar > to > yours. Plant Delights Nursery > carries a > number of them such as Bali Beauty, Batik, Copper Mine, Fantasy > Island, > Jakarta Jewel, Krakatau, Lydia Luckman, Moulin Rouge, Paul Niemi, > South > Pacific. There is also a website where many of his hybrids are > pictured: > . Yucca Do > Nursery > also often carried a good selection of the > species. I think many of the things both of these nurseries (esp. > everything Yucca Do sells) carry would do just fine in your climate as > well. Buried Treasures Nursery in Florida > carries all kinds of tropical bulbs. > There are some other nurseries as well that I can't think of right > now. > There are a number of Hippeastrum from Brazil that might do well in > you > climate. Check out Mauro Peixoto's website (he sells seeds of many of > the species on his website) . Also Greg > Pettit who has a nursery on the warm humid east coast of South Africa > might have a lot of suggestions too. > > Other genera to look for might include: > Griffinia > Hymenocallis > Trimezia > Neomarica > Eucrosia > Many of the Ginger genera (Zingiber, Alpinia, Burbidgea, Cautleya, > Costus, Etlingera, Hedychium, Kaempferia) > Canna > Globba > Curcuma > Heliconia > a few Lilium > Gloriosa > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Sat May 17 15:40:04 2008 Message-Id: <482F347F.3010301@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Tropicals/Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:39:43 -0700 Hi Debbie, Is Solas Gardens you? Great! (Oh no, one more place I'll end up having to spend money at...!) I think Mary Sue has said several times that the rules for ibiblio.org are that you can tell people you have some bulb or seed item for sale, but to contact you privately or go to a website. I think the more sources we all know about the better. Jim Shields has a website of sources and he's more than happy to add additional sources, or edit the info he has there, if you just send him an email with the info. . I was just listing a few off the top of my head. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a Deborah Jordan wrote: > Hi Lee, > > Since we are plugging vendors for Richard--there's another little internet bulb company that has a lot of Zephyranthes and Habranthus located about 15 miles as the crow flies from yucca do. They have a lot of the same varieties as yuccado and PDN, plus a few they don't carry. > > www.solasgardens.com > > Debbie > Houston, Texas > > From totototo@telus.net Sat May 17 16:43:00 2008 Message-Id: <20080517204258.FA5VNL2FGL@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Tropical bulbs Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 13:43:33 -0700 On 16 May 08, at 12:08, Narad (Richard Eggenberger) wrote: > In this southern part of India the coolest night with monsoon rain > and wind may hit 68 degrees Fahrenheit! Peter Goullart in his book "River of the White Lily" mentions several times seeing pancratium and crinum flowering wild in Sarawak. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From djordan68@comcast.net Sun May 18 11:22:15 2008 Message-Id: From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Phil Andrews Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 10:17:53 -0500 Hi Phil-- I need you to email me again with an alternative email address, please. The "hotmail" address returned my attempt to contact you as undeliverable. Debbie Houston, Texas From Roth@ukzn.ac.za Mon May 19 10:30:42 2008 Message-Id: <4831AAE2.2298.0024.0@ukzn.ac.za> From: "Rogan Roth" Subject: Watsonia aletroides and densiflora Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 16:30:30 +0200 Please check out the Watsonia pages http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Watsonia where I have added pictures of W. aletroides and W. densiflora in habitat. Regards Rogan. Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Mon May 19 20:29:34 2008 Message-Id: <29221.61728.qm@web36408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Scent Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 17:29:32 -0700 (PDT) I've heard (and my experience at work in an office confirms this) that some people find the fragrance of paperwhite narcissus utterly revolting -- describing it as a "stench". Sounds to me like floral fragrance is largely genetic. This thread however makes me wonder if this explains why my daughter, who can roll her tongue, loves pickles, prefers vanilla and strawberry and peach to chocolate or banana or apricot, can eat a straight lemon ("so refreshing") but feels none of that w/ an orange. She can roll her tongue. I cannot. One of us would like Fritillaria... which one? "brown.mark" wrote: I have a very good sense of smell and can roll my tongue,but don't care too much for the scent of Fritillaria imperialis nor the similar scent of Phuopsis stylosa.They just too much remind me of foxes! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Glattstein" To: Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:11 PM Subject: [pbs] Scent >I like the scent of Fritillaria imperialis. My husband finds it > unpleasant. But then I also like butyl mercaptan (skunk) if not fresh > application - did have a de-scented skunk for a house pet for 5 years. > > I also do not detect fragrance from Tulbaghia simmleri (= T. fragrans). > > Isn't there some correlation between the ability to taste a certain > flavor (as Lee Poulsen mentioned) and the ability to curl the sides of > your tongue to form a sort of tube? > > And when my cat comes indoors on a cold winter day is there some scent > of "cold" that clings to his fur for a few moments, or is it my > imagination. > > Judy in New Jersey where the rainy morning is intensifying the scent of > fresh green growth. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon May 19 20:52:57 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Scent Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 17:47:19 -0700 Yes, I'm one that keeps trying to find a pleasant paperwhite. I'm growing some from seed now so that maybe I can get some that way. Meantime, I grow them outside and don't pick them for the house. Scents can change from delicious to disgusting depending upon temperature and concentration. Try driving home with a basket of ripe strawberries on a warm day. The car will smell like a garbage can. Diane Whitehead From pcamusa@hotmail.com Mon May 19 22:24:04 2008 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Scent Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 22:23:51 -0400 Yes, the smell of warm, fresh strawberries in an enclosed space- you would think it would be quite pleasant, but I can hardly get in the car for the stench. I've noticed that lilies of the valley are quite temperature dependent at least to my nose. At lower temperatures (40-50 degrees F) they are less aromatic and sweet as smelling of acetone and some other organic solvent I can't quite place...... Regards, Phil > From: voltaire@islandnet.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 17:47:19 -0700 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Scent > > Yes, I'm one that keeps trying to find a pleasant paperwhite. I'm > growing some from seed now so that maybe I can get some that way. > Meantime, I grow them outside and don't pick them for the house. > > Scents can change from delicious to disgusting depending upon > temperature and concentration. Try driving home with a basket of ripe > strawberries on a warm day. The car will smell like a garbage can. > > Diane Whitehead > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld From julietleigh@ihug.co.nz Tue May 20 01:23:05 2008 Message-Id: <001201c8ba39$a031f570$4001a8c0@JulietsLaptop> From: "Juliet Leigh" Subject: Scent Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 17:23:23 +1200 I can't roll my tongue but savour most flower scents now, including fritallaria imperialis bulbs which other people working in our packing shed can't abide. Mind you we don't have foxes here in NZ; only know them from Brer Rabbit et al! Was always doubtful about hyacinth till this year, when I have found to my surprise that Woodstock, a purple flower, is actually pleasant! Maybe our sense of smell changes as we age? On the other hand I have often believed my sense of smell to be more acute than many other folks, especially where dampness in a building is concerned- a bit like being able to detect a slightly 'off'' musical note. I go for the genetic theory! Cheers, Juliet Leigh (...in NZ where the autumn gales assail but erlicheer and other jonquils are beginning to bloom.; and the next-door neighbour's plum tree was flowering last month! Global warming proof?) ----- Original Message ----- From: "C.J. Teevan" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Scent > I've heard (and my experience at work in an office confirms this) that > some people find the fragrance of paperwhite narcissus utterly > revolting -- describing it as a "stench". Sounds to me like floral > fragrance is largely genetic. > > This thread however makes me wonder if this explains why my daughter, who > can roll her tongue, loves pickles, prefers vanilla and strawberry and > peach to chocolate or banana or apricot, can eat a straight lemon ("so > refreshing") but feels none of that w/ an orange. She can roll her > tongue. I cannot. > > One of us would like Fritillaria... which one? > > "brown.mark" wrote: > I have a very good sense of smell and can roll my tongue,but don't care > too > much for the scent of Fritillaria imperialis nor the similar scent of > Phuopsis stylosa.They just too much remind me of foxes! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Judy Glattstein" > To: > > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:11 PM > Subject: [pbs] Scent > > >>I like the scent of Fritillaria imperialis. My husband finds it >> unpleasant. But then I also like butyl mercaptan (skunk) if not fresh >> application - did have a de-scented skunk for a house pet for 5 years. >> >> I also do not detect fragrance from Tulbaghia simmleri (= T. fragrans). >> >> Isn't there some correlation between the ability to taste a certain >> flavor (as Lee Poulsen mentioned) and the ability to curl the sides of >> your tongue to form a sort of tube? >> >> And when my cat comes indoors on a cold winter day is there some scent >> of "cold" that clings to his fur for a few moments, or is it my >> imagination. >> >> Judy in New Jersey where the rainy morning is intensifying the scent of >> fresh green growth. >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue May 20 15:28:58 2008 Message-Id: <000601c8bab0$183d7370$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Sinningia leucotricha Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:31:23 -0400 Sinningia leucotricha is now emerging above ground: each year the first sign of life is a sort of silver crosier. I think this plant is now in its third (or is it fourth?) season outside. It grows in the rain shadow of the eaves right against the house foundation. No, I’m not going to suggest that this is evidence of Global Warming, but I have to admit that twenty years ago I would not have dared to plant this one outside with any expectation of long range success. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where tulips are over but Dutch iris and many ornamental Allium are in full bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Tue May 20 15:39:54 2008 Message-Id: <786301.48136.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: Sinningia leucotricha Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:39:53 -0700 (PDT) From totototo@telus.net Tue May 20 21:39:15 2008 Message-Id: <20080521013913.A1KUS4NBW5@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Scent Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 18:39:44 -0700 On 19 May 08, at 17:29, C.J. Teevan wrote: > I've heard (and my experience at work in an office confirms this) > that some people find the fragrance of paperwhite narcissus utterly > revolting -- describing it as a "stench". Sounds to me like > floral fragrance is largely genetic. Given the well-known genetic component in regard to taste, I have no doubt that similar effects exist vis a vis scent. Paperwhites: a pleasant scent but only when very, very faint. One blossom in the furthrest reaches of the house is adequate. Coming into flower: Tulipa sprengeri, Camassia. The latter has become a weed for me, but the bulbs place themselves so deep it's ineradicable. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From Blee811@aol.com Tue May 20 21:42:56 2008 Message-Id: From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Scent Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 21:42:46 EDT In a message dated 5/20/2008 8:39:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, totototo@telus.net writes: Given the well-known genetic component in regard to taste, I have no doubt that similar effects exist vis a vis scent. Paperwhites: a pleasant scent but only when very, very faint. One blossom in the furthrest reaches of the house is adequate. My observations over the years of displaying daffodils to the public and sticking them under people's noses to sniff is that women seem to find the scent of Paperwhites more objectionable than men do. I have also often forced a bloom of the daffodil 'Fragrant Rose' (it does indeed have a slight rose fragrance) under unsuspecting noses and most men can detect the fragrance, but only about half the women. Linda Wallpe has told me more than once that although this is indeed a gender difference, it is not based on the ability to detect the fragrance or not, but on the unwillingness of men to admit that they cannot smell it! Bill Lee **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From karlachandler@bbg.org Wed May 21 16:23:11 2008 Message-Id: <5BF707B7ED37FE4BBD274D3BA180C6110182FF27@Boston.home.bbg.org> From: "Chandler, Karla" Subject: introduction Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:19:55 -0400 Hi Everyone, I have finally joined and I am pretty excited. I have tons of questions, but I also hope to contribute information. Now that my bulb season is over, I am freer to talk about them, and thereby making the season endless. I take care of a collection of SA bulbs at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden of New York State. It has become more than my job as any of you can well guess. It is a modest collection of about 30 Genera and 100 species. I inherited the roughly 20 year old collection and have added to it in the seven years I have been curator. Mostly I have weeded out virus infected plants and tried to keep the rest alive. This is my first time joining such a list. Thank you for letting me participate. Karla ******************************************** Karla Chandler Curator of Helen Mattin Warm Temperate Pavilion Brooklyn Botanic Garden 1000 Washington Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11225 phone: 718-623-7200 x 6400 fax: 718-622-7847 http://www.bbg.org ******************************************** From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed May 21 14:17:36 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080522111611.0176ec58@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Scent Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:21:09 -0700 Regarding the offensive or otherwise scent of paperwhite narcissus, note that different cultivars have different fragrances. The most common one on the market is, I believe, 'Ziva', and it's one of the stronger-smelling. There are many wild varieties and cultivars derived from Narcissus tazetta that have lighter scents. I enjoy the one sometimes known as N. panizzianus and also find N. pachybolbus inoffensive. Another early-flowering plant with a pleasant, sweet scent is N. cordubensis, which has small gold flowers on tallish stems. In flower now is the pleasantly scented wild form of Narcissus jonquilla, which I grew from seed collected in the Pyrenees by a contributor to the NARGS seed exchange some years ago. The flowers wouldn't please daffodil specialists because they tend to be a little bicolored, but I like them. I grow them in a large container where I can keep them adequately watered, as they don't like to dry out completely in summer (or, I assume, be soggy all winter). Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dells@voicenet.com Thu May 22 16:27:34 2008 Message-Id: <20080522202722.37F604C00F@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: introduction Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 16:27:00 -0400 Welcome Karla, I would like to see a list of the species in your collection, if that is possible. I live in between Philadelphia and New York, but have yet to visit BBG. All of your questions are welcome, and there is usually someone here who can give you answers. And I look forward to hearing about what you have learned about your charges. Best regards, Dell Dell Sherk, SE PA zone 6/7 Director, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Chandler, Karla Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:20 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] introduction Hi Everyone, I have finally joined and I am pretty excited. I have tons of questions, but I also hope to contribute information. Now that my bulb season is over, I am freer to talk about them, and thereby making the season endless. I take care of a collection of SA bulbs at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden of New York State. It has become more than my job as any of you can well guess. It is a modest collection of about 30 Genera and 100 species. I inherited the roughly 20 year old collection and have added to it in the seven years I have been curator. Mostly I have weeded out virus infected plants and tried to keep the rest alive. This is my first time joining such a list. Thank you for letting me participate. Karla ******************************************** Karla Chandler Curator of Helen Mattin Warm Temperate Pavilion Brooklyn Botanic Garden 1000 Washington Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11225 phone: 718-623-7200 x 6400 fax: 718-622-7847 http://www.bbg.org ******************************************** _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dells@voicenet.com Fri May 23 11:31:26 2008 Message-Id: <20080523153117.7AA044C011@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 172 Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 11:30:51 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 172" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Carolyn Craft: 1. Varied sized bulbs of Muscari armeniacum From Jim Waddick: 2. Bulbs of Hymenocallis littoralis See http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hymenocallis/Hymenocallis_littor alis.jpg This is an easy Hymenocallis in pots protected from freezing. In the course of a couple of years it has burst through a 5 gallon pot. A good Hymenocallis for beginners or those new to this genus. 3. Bulbs of Hymenocallis sp. I got this bulb from a friend who had no idea what it was and it never bloomed for him. I recognized it as a Hymenocallis and placed the potted bulb in a tub of water where it quickly doubled in size, bloomed and began to off set vigorously. Sorry no idea of species, but it is not the same as the previous or H. latifolia or 'Tropical Giant', the only others I grow. From Tsuh Yang Chen: SEED: 4. Sinningia amambayensis -- from the region on the border between brazil and paraguay, this species has attractive light green -- very sticky -- leaves and red flowers. it requires relatively low-light/shady conditions. 5. Sinningia iarae -- from the coast of Sao Paulo State, it has furry leaves, cerise-red flowers, very attractive. relatively shady/low-light conditions. forms a nice sized tuber with age. 6. Sinningia species 'Ibitioca' -- a relatively new species in cultivation, attractive furry light green leaves with deep purple flowers. requires strong light to grow well and bloom. 7. Sinningia bulbosa -- from the beaches in the city of Rio de Janeiro, forms enormous tubers with age, light green leaves, red flowers. requires very sunny conditions. 8. Sinningia globulosa -- attractive furry leaves and red flowers with furry calices. 9. Sinningia aff. reitzii -- from Sao Paulo State, this plant seems distinct from the "true" reitzii found in Corupa, Santa Catarina State. the main difference is that this species produces a pedicel with a single flower, whereas Corupa produces a peduncle with 2 flowers. i'm told some preliminary DNA testing suggests it's a distinct species from Corupa. relatively shady conditions, forms a tall shrub from a tuber. flowers can be red or pink. this seed is from the pink form. 10. Sinningia sp. "Rio das Pedras" -- from the coast of Rio de Janeiro State, one of the miniature Sinn. species, perhaps related to S. concinna and S. pusilla, the other miniature Sinn. tiny tubers that form serrated, striped leaves and light lavender flowers. very small plant, requiring shady conditions. From PBS: 11. Seed of Haemanthus montanus 12. Seed of Nerine huttonii 13. Seed of Brunsvigia grandiflora Thank you, Carolyn, Jim, and Tsuh Yang !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From scottc@WaveHill.org Fri May 23 13:49:07 2008 Message-Id: From: "Canning, Scott" Subject: Introduction Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 13:49:05 -0400 This is my first post, to welcome Karla from BBG. She does an awesome job with the South African bulb collection. I continue to dabble with bulbs here at Wave Hill, but can't devote the time and space that I could when I was at Brooklyn BG. I enjoy the correspondence here, and welcome Karla. Scott Canning Wave Hill Bronx, NY Zone 6, not Brooklyn's 7! www.wavehill.org From JmsJon664@aol.com Fri May 23 17:41:26 2008 Message-Id: <8CA8B34DF4A7803-430-196E@webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: SA Bulbs Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 17:41:19 -0400 The appearance of Karla Chandler on the scene prompts me to ask for info about a South African bulb...if it is a bulb!  I had no such expectation of Cyphia digitata (Lobeliaceae) when I grew it from seed, but when all my plants spontaneously lost their foliage as summer approached, I was wary enough to empty out the pots, and there were storage organs that looked very like bulbs. My questions: A. Is this species considered a geophyte (how not, I suppose)? B. How complete a summer rest does it need?  I lost a couple last summer and could not tell if it was from too much or too little moisture. The top-growth is wispy and clearly intended to scramble up available support.  It is described as a grassland species that bears blue flowers in winter. Jim Jones Lexington, MA Z5-6 From msittner@mcn.org Sat May 24 19:28:32 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080523163154.034e7840@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Cyphia digitata Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 16:47:01 -0700 Manning and Goldblatt's Cape Plants describe it as a twining tuberous perennial. This books says it has a wide distribution from Namaqualand and the Western Karoo to Port Elizabeth where is grows on sandstone and clay slopes (habitats I'd expect more likely than grassland for some of those areas) so must grow in some areas where there is very little rainfall and that mostly coming in the winter months although those growing in Port Elizabeth would have different conditions. I looked up some other species in my Namaqualand field guide and they were described as deciduous perennials growing from a tuber. Our group never will reach consensus about what is appropriate for discussion or probably even what is a geophyte and the leadership has erred on the side of being inclusive and has allowed pictures of plants with tubers, corms, bulbs, rhizomes, even tuberous roots to be added to the wiki. Certainly other plants that have a dormancy period and grow from a tuber are considered geophytes. In nature given where it grows there would be little to no moisture. Does anyone else grow it who could offer an opinion about the care it needs in summer to thrive? Mary Sue >Is this species considered a geophyte (how not, I suppose)? How complete >a summer rest does it need? From othonna@gmail.com Fri May 23 23:19:09 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260805232019n5bd5fcbbhc07837ca3fedaf57@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: SA Bulbs Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 20:19:04 -0700 Jim, Cyphias are wonderful plants, scarcely known in cultivation anywhere. A majority if not all are indeed geophytes and die back each season to a subglobose, thin-skinned tuber that resembles a potato; it can be difficult to see which end is up when transplanting. They are not difficult to grow and suffer cramped conditions in pots quite well, reliably returning each season for years. Their main drawback perhaps is their inconspicuousness and small size-- they are not suitable for average garden situations. Besides the rather drab but medicinally useful C. elata (one of the summer rainfall species), I have only winter growing species and I give them all the same treatment: a bone dry rest from April-May to Oct-Nov and some shade while growing, with something to twine through. They will scramble happily if they cannot climb. Some species have upright stems but most seem to be delicate twiners. Their small flowers are sometimes produced in numbers enough to attract attention and individually are worth close inspection. Both the twining habit and tuberous rootstock make Cyphia unusual among the lobelioid group of the Campanulaceae. Dylan Hannon Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 2:41 PM, wrote: > The appearance of Karla Chandler on the scene prompts me to ask for info > about a South African bulb...if it is a bulb! I had no such expectation of > Cyphia digitata (Lobeliaceae) when I grew it from seed, but when all my > plants spontaneously lost their foliage as summer approached, I was wary > enough to empty out the pots, and there were storage organs that looked very > like bulbs. > My questions: A. Is this species considered a geophyte (how not, I > suppose)? > > B. How complete a summer rest does it need? I lost a couple last summer > and could not tell if it was from too much or too little moisture. > > The top-growth is wispy and clearly intended to scramble up available > support. It is described as a grassland species that bears blue flowers in > winter. > > Jim Jones > > Lexington, MA Z5-6 > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Sat May 24 19:28:32 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080524092027.02d8a838@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Cyphia digitata Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 09:27:47 -0700 Hi, I sent this yesterday before Dylan's helpful reply about cultivation and whether this species is a geophyte. There was a period yesterday when ibiblio was having problems and my post never made it to the archives so I assume it must have arrived during that time. If others of you sent something that never appeared, you may want to resend those messages. Message from yesterday: Manning and Goldblatt's Cape Plants describe this species as a twining tuberous perennial. This book often uses the term geophyte in descriptions, but did not do so in this case. This books says it has a wide distribution from Namaqualand and the Western Karoo to Port Elizabeth where is grows on sandstone and clay slopes (habitats I'd expect more likely than grassland for some of those areas) so must grow in some areas where there is very little rainfall and that mostly coming in the winter months although those growing in Port Elizabeth would have different conditions. I looked up some other species in my Namaqualand field guide and they were described as deciduous perennials growing from a tuber. Our group never will reach consensus about what is appropriate for discussion or probably even what is a geophyte and the leadership has erred on the side of being inclusive and has allowed pictures of plants with tubers, corms, bulbs, rhizomes, even tuberous roots to be added to the wiki. Certainly other plants that have a dormancy period and grow from a tuber are considered geophytes. In nature given where it grows there would be little to no moisture during dormancy. Does anyone else grow it who could offer an opinion about the care it needs in summer to thrive? Mary Sue >Is this species considered a geophyte (how not, I suppose)? How complete >a summer rest does it need? From dells@voicenet.com Sat May 24 14:01:10 2008 Message-Id: <20080524180110.667E84C015@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 172 CLOSED Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 14:00:24 -0400 Hi All, Supplies of BX 172 items, especially the sinningias from Tsuh Yang, have run out. Packages should go out during the next week. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From Roth@ukzn.ac.za Mon May 26 06:54:28 2008 Message-Id: <483AB296.2298.0024.0@ukzn.ac.za> From: "Rogan Roth" Subject: Placea ornata germination Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:52:39 +0200 I have recently had success germinating Placea ornata in the refrigerator at 4'C on damp filter paper in a petri dish. Germination was nearly 100% after two weeks. Does anyone have suggestions on how to keep them alive after germination? I have tried this species several times before with no success. Thanks a lot Rogan. Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon May 26 11:07:23 2008 Message-Id: <22A0BA97-656D-479A-94F7-DE20FEF0EDEB@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Placea ornata source? Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 08:07:00 -0700 Placea is a genus that I have looked for without success. Does anyone know of a source for seed? Is it a plant that needs really fresh seed in order to germinate? Diane Whitehead Victoria, B.C., Canada From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon May 26 11:25:31 2008 Message-Id: <483AD652.6010705@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Placea ornata source? Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 08:25:06 -0700 Diane Whitehead wrote: > Placea is a genus that I have looked for without success. Does anyone > know of a source for seed? Is it a plant that needs really fresh seed > in order to germinate? > > Osmani Baullosa has some seeds for sale right now at his eBay store. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon May 26 11:32:56 2008 Message-Id: <483AD80F.7070804@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Placea ornata germination Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 08:32:31 -0700 Rogan Roth wrote: > I have recently had success germinating Placea ornata in the refrigerator at 4'C on damp filter paper in a petri dish. Germination was nearly 100% after two weeks. > > Does anyone have suggestions on how to keep them alive after germination? I have tried this species several times before with no success. > This is a mediterranean climate winter grower so I would imagine that you need damp cool conditions (highs in the 50s and 60s F. and lows in the 30s and 40s F.) for a number of months followed by increasingly warmer and dryer conditions to eventually induce dormancy during dry hot summer weather. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From jshields@indy.net Mon May 26 11:41:04 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080526113706.027f82d0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Placea ornata germination Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:40:59 -0400 Rogan, I've had trouble starting the seeds of Rhodophiala and related genera and then trying to transplant or plant them after germination. I now start all such seeds in a sand layer atop the potting mix in the pots I intend to grow them in for the first couple of years. I cover with clear plastic film like Saran wrap, and keep the pot in a large sauce so I can water it without removing the plastic wrap. It might be good to try this with some Placea. What I don't know is whether Placea are summer or winter growing, but I surmise form your comments and the native habitat that they might want to grow in the winter. Can anyone comment on this? Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 12:52 PM 5/26/2008 +0200, you wrote: >I have recently had success germinating Placea ornata in the refrigerator >at 4'C on damp filter paper in a petri dish. Germination was nearly 100% >after two weeks. > >Does anyone have suggestions on how to keep them alive after germination? >I have tried this species several times before with no success. > >Thanks a lot >Rogan. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From Clayton3120@cablespeed.com Mon May 26 13:09:56 2008 Message-Id: <001e01c8bf53$016adaf0$0a428f18@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Clayton3120" Subject: Placea ornata germination Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 10:07:39 -0700 I've germinated and successfully grown Placea, but I use soil microrhizza in the soil mix. I sow them in the fall here, and hold them over in the greenhouse till spring. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Placea ornata germination > Rogan, > > I've had trouble starting the seeds of Rhodophiala and related genera and > then trying to transplant or plant them after germination. I now start > all > such seeds in a sand layer atop the potting mix in the pots I intend to > grow them in for the first couple of years. I cover with clear plastic > film like Saran wrap, and keep the pot in a large sauce so I can water it > without removing the plastic wrap. > > It might be good to try this with some Placea. > > What I don't know is whether Placea are summer or winter growing, but I > surmise form your comments and the native habitat that they might want to > grow in the winter. Can anyone comment on this? > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana (USA) > > At 12:52 PM 5/26/2008 +0200, you wrote: >>I have recently had success germinating Placea ornata in the refrigerator >>at 4'C on damp filter paper in a petri dish. Germination was nearly 100% >>after two weeks. >> >>Does anyone have suggestions on how to keep them alive after germination? >>I have tried this species several times before with no success. >> >>Thanks a lot >>Rogan. > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Mon May 26 13:52:48 2008 Message-Id: <000b01c8bf59$17daf800$bf246f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Placea ornata germination Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 10:51:14 -0700 I have grown Placea to maturity from seed, but then lost most of my bulbs to fungal disease, which seemed to be both stagonospora and some kind of basal rot. I think you need to keep them absolutely bone dry when they are dormant, and I am now growing them in pumice. I checked my almost mature bulbs a week ago, and they look pretty good. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rogan Roth" To: Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 3:52 AM Subject: [pbs] Placea ornata germination >I have recently had success germinating Placea ornata in the refrigerator >at 4'C on damp filter paper in a petri dish. Germination was nearly 100% >after two weeks. > > Does anyone have suggestions on how to keep them alive after germination? > I have tried this species several times before with no success. > > Thanks a lot > Rogan. > > Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Roth@ukzn.ac.za Tue May 27 01:56:52 2008 Message-Id: <483BBE09.2298.0024.0@ukzn.ac.za> From: "Rogan Roth" Subject: Placea germination Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 07:55:02 +0200 Thank you for all your suggestions, I hope for some success this time although I do realize that this is a difficult plant to grow at the best of times. My seed came to me from Osmani Baullosa via Ebay and, as is usual with all his seed, germinates well. Regards Rogan. Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ From PJOSPUX@aol.com Tue May 27 02:32:51 2008 Message-Id: From: PJOSPUX@aol.com Subject: Placea germination Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 02:32:47 EDT My seed came to me from Osmani Baullosa via Ebay That is so very tempting, but how do I find the site? I've tried 'Placea' or foolishly just 'seeds' on both US and the UK Ebay without success. Regards Paul Kent UK From toadlily@olywa.net Tue May 27 02:39:00 2008 Message-Id: <483BAC91.1000504@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: Placea ornata source? Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 23:39:13 -0700 Rogan and others, I obtained seed of 'Placea arzae' three years ago from Osmani Baullosa, who suggested using a float method for germinating the seed. I filled a 1 cm deep, 10 cm diameter container with water, and set it on the window sill, where it got mid-day sun for several hours (evaporation kept the water from overheating). Most of the seed germinated within three days, the rest shortly after. I left them in this environment until the radical was about 2 cm long, then nestled them into a quick draining seed soil. Some that I planted with a shorter radical, took much longer to renew growth, and were weaker plants. The seed were planted into a slit in the soil, radical down, and with about half the seed capsule exposed above the soil. I keep the plants growing for as long as I can, then completely dry them off for the summer. Of the original 20 seed, I still have 8 plants growing, having returned both years after dormancy (some of the loses are due to a stupid watering error, I'm sure). They seem to grow slowly, but are increasing in size if the leaf is a valid indicator. Hope that this helps, and that I continue to have success to report! Dave Brastow (Tumwater, Washington - 7A) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon May 26 13:07:10 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080527100623.0176b298@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Placea ornata germination Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:13:00 -0700 Jim SHields asked, What I don't know is whether Placea are summer or winter growing, but I >surmise form your comments and the native habitat that they might want to >grow in the winter. Can anyone comment on this? The ones I've seen are in the subalpine zone (foothills) and grow and flower in spring, being summer-dormant. I saw them growing among scrub on a very steep hillside in rocky soil that would dry out severely in summer. I agree with Jim that it's easiest to germinate and grow on Rhodophiala, Placea, and Phycella by planting the seeds directly where the bulbs are to remain for a couple of years. However, I haven't had much luck keeping them permanently, except for R. pratensis and R. advena. Managed to flower Rhodophiala rhodolirion once in the bulb frame and then it died. I haven't grown any Placea, but I have some young Phycella seedlings thanks to Terry Laskiewicz, who had the optimism to harvest what I thought were very unripe seeds and the generosity to share them with me. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue May 27 13:59:47 2008 Message-Id: <000701c8c023$676bb740$ae258346@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 64, Issue 39 Osmani Baullosa Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:59:24 -0500 Hello Paul ? in Kent, U.K. Ordinarily your search might have turned up something But some of thee vendors do not have items for sale all the time and Osmani Baullosa is one such,. His eMail is obaullosa@yahoo.com . He sells under the name: vendor name horosto, as I recall--but he is not listing anything at this time. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:21 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 64, Issue 39 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > From pasogal@ameritech.net Tue May 27 14:02:41 2008 Message-Id: <006501c8c023$ce54ee40$6afecac0$@net> From: "Annalee" Subject: Chilean plants--sources. Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:02:18 -0500 Kent? You can also check Chile Flora.com as a source for Chilean plants. It's not eBay From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Tue May 27 15:15:07 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Osmani Baullosa Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:15:11 -0600 You can find Osmani at Mainly Bulbous Gems http://stores.ebay.ca/MAINLY-BULBOUS-GEMS_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZQ2d33QQf tidZ2QQtZkm From kellso@irvincentral.com Tue May 27 15:54:51 2008 Message-Id: <483C66F2.2090604@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Osmani Baullosa Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:54:26 -0500 All you need is the following: http://stores.ebay.ca/MAINLY-BULBOUS-GEMS for Canada or http://stores.ebay.com/MAINLY-BULBOUS-GEMS for U.S. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Linda Foulis wrote: > You can find Osmani at Mainly Bulbous Gems > http://stores.ebay.ca/MAINLY-BULBOUS-GEMS_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZQ2d33QQf > tidZ2QQtZkm > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From JmsJon664@aol.com Tue May 27 16:16:54 2008 Message-Id: <8CA8E4DB5C4D1A2-62C-2129@WEBMAIL-MB11.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Phaedranassa Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:16:41 -0400 My query on Cyphia digitata brought excellent information; now I would like to shift hemisperes and ask about Phaedrananthus dubius.  I received  a plant from Telos in October, it came through the winter fine, started blooming in April and is still at it.  I assume it will go dormant: does it need something from me to encourage it?  How dry does it need to be? I'd like to ask the same question about Oxalis obtusa as well: should it be kept very dry all summer long, or what? Thanks Jim Jones Lexington, MA From leo@possi.org Tue May 27 19:49:20 2008 Message-Id: <34302.209.180.132.162.1211932153.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Placea ornata germination Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:49:13 -0700 (MST) I have sprouted Placea arzae. I sowed them in late fall on top of a sandy soil mix in a container 3" across and 6" deep (20 ounce foam drinking cup.) I then covered with 1/2 inch of sand. I did not punch drain holes at this time. I set the cup outside for my fall-winter-spring, which features occasional overnight frosts but cool and dry conditions otherwise. I filled the cups with water to the brim and kept like that until the seedlings emerged. Then I punched drain holes. I kept them moist all winter. They grew well the first year. I put the intacta container in a box in a closet in the house for the first summer. They did not return the following fall. Using the same method I have plants of Rhodophiala advena and Ozirhoe biflora, which have returned strongly. On this topic... I dropped my pot of Rhodophiala advena while putting pots away for the summer. I have eight bulbs with large fleshy white roots. How should I summer them now that I have unpotted them? Previously I have just put the pot in a box and put it in the closet until the fall. Thanks, Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From opbungalow@gmail.com Tue May 27 20:46:25 2008 Message-Id: <150371710805271746i61d7b15flb2c75ded8a8b3a61@mail.gmail.com> From: "David Maxwell" Subject: Hippeastrum: Trait Dominance? Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 17:46:24 -0700 Hello All, I was wondering if anyone hybridizing Hippeastrum observed a trend in trait dominance from either the seed-parent or pollen-parent? Or any variations in trait dominance in seeds set from the first or second scape? I'm a relative novice...and with 3 or 4 years between flowering generations...I haven't been at it long enough to see a trend. I'm curious if there is one...or if it's a total genetic crapshoot. -d. From othonna@gmail.com Wed May 28 00:10:46 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260805272110v7079a30en766d12c6abb9e7e0@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Phaedranassa Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 21:10:44 -0700 Jim, There are only a handful of Phaedranassa species, all Andean and more or less similar in appearance and culture. They are mountain plants (to at least 7000 ft) and so appreciate cool nights; I don't know how they will fare with warm nights but they are generally robust and not difficult to grow. They should have a dry dormancy in winter-- some species may retain some leaves all year (what I grow as P. dubia is evergreen but is from a different source)-- and flower just before the new leaves emerge in spring, as yours is doing. I use a lean "cactus mix" that is very well drained. The fact that phaedranassas can be seen thriving along road cuts in well-lighted conditions (in a cloudy climate!) gives some idea of their requirements. As with most amaryllids it is important to allow the plant to become well-established and develop a substantial root system for reliable flowering. Oxalis obtusa: completely dry rest from late spring to early fall. A safe rule for almost all Mediterranean climate geophytes, whether in the iris, amaryllis or hyacinth families, is to hold back on any watering once the leaves yellow and keep them dry until fall. The plants I have lost from keeping them too dry are heavily outnumbered by those that succumbed to too-generous watering. Dylan Hannon Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 1:16 PM, wrote: > My query on Cyphia digitata brought excellent information; now I would like > to shift hemisperes and ask about Phaedrananthus dubius. I received a > plant from Telos in October, it came through the winter fine, started > blooming in April and is still at it. I assume it will go dormant: does it > need something from me to encourage it? How dry does it need to be? > I'd like to ask the same question about Oxalis obtusa as well: should it be > kept very dry all summer long, or what? > > Thanks > > Jim Jones > > Lexington, MA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From PJOSPUX@aol.com Wed May 28 03:57:51 2008 Message-Id: From: PJOSPUX@aol.com Subject: Osmani Baullosa Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 03:57:44 EDT Thanks to everybody for their help..........I had n't thought to look at Ebay Canada! Paul From jshields@indy.net Wed May 28 10:18:38 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080528101528.00b19070@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Phaedranassa Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:18:42 -0400 I have three Phaedranassa species here, including dubia. They live in the Clivia House -- very cool in winter, shaded in summer, and are left bone dry in winter. This seems to work fine. It also worked when they were moved outdoors in the sun, wind, and rain for the summer. I think they may bloom a bit better remaining in the Clivia House year-round. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 09:10 PM 5/27/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Jim, >There are only a handful of Phaedranassa species, all Andean and more or >less similar in appearance and culture. They are mountain plants (to at >least 7000 ft) and so appreciate cool nights; I don't know how they will >fare with warm nights but they are generally robust and not difficult to >grow. They should have a dry dormancy in winter-- some species may retain >some leaves all year (what I grow as P. dubia is evergreen but is from a >different source)-- and flower just before the new leaves emerge in spring, >as yours is doing. ....... > >Dylan Hannon >Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From msittner@mcn.org Wed May 28 11:27:39 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080528081929.035870c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Phaedranassa Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 08:27:22 -0700 I grow my plants year round in my unheated green house. They bloom reliably at different times in winter-spring. They don't always lose their leaves, but I do try to withhold water for periods of time to stimulate blooming. I've mentioned on this list numerous times that even though I have grown from seed selections that were labeled P. dubia, P. carmioli, and P. cinerea, they all look the same to me. Even the ones that have a tiny band of yellow don't keep it as they mature. So I appreciated Dylan's comment that they all look similar in appearance. In the past I have taken pictures to compare these different plants and pictures of the seed pods and seeds and never quite got them to the wiki so I have added the pictures this morning along with a picture from our wiki virus page of a virused leaf. Information about cultivation from Diana Chapman is on this page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Phaedranassa Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Thu May 29 10:57:27 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080529070929.01620a20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions -- Lachenalia, Bartholina, Drimia Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 07:57:02 -0700 I've added pictures of the flowers of the late blooming Lachenalia salteri to the wiki now that they have opened. Mine grown from Silverhill seed are just like the book said, pink and pale blue and white. Like many other Lachenalia species, the light blue has a turquoise tinge to it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LachenaliaSpeciesSix#salteri I made a page for a very beautiful South African tuberous geophyte in the orchid family. We were thrilled to see this in the wild on one of our trips as it is really quite dramatic. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bartholina I've been slowly working on the Drimia wiki pages and started by adding links to the Urginea species we have listed. In the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs they divide Drimia into groups of "former" genera: Drimia, Litanthus, Rhadamanthus, Schizobasis, Tenicroa, Urginea Like with Moraea, some of the flowers of the groups look very different, so that probably helps with the keys. I made two new wiki pages of two of these groups since I had pictures from Cameron to illustrate them. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Litanthus http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tenicroa Mary Sue From miller7398@comcast.net Thu May 29 11:45:20 2008 Message-Id: <001301c8c1a2$f0f5c340$3f39734c@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Hippeastrum: Trait Dominance? Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 08:44:54 -0700 Dear David and all, Once again, my correspondant in Louisiana shares his long experience with breeding Hippeastrum. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon "Now to answer your question biefly, NO, there is no trend in crossing breeding Hippeastrums, it does not matter which plant is the pollen or seed parent. No, it does not matter which flower or scape you use either.. Now all of this is predicated on one simple fact in that both parents must or should be of the same chromosome number. Remember that most species, not all, are diploids with 22 chromosomes and usually cross freely with each other. Modern hybrids are mostly tetraploids with 44 chromosomes. Some trait dominance would or might show up when crossing plants of different chromosome levels. If you wish, I could write up a one page, easy to understand explanation of the latter situation tomorrow, on a document and send it over. Just be reminded that for every rule, there is an exception ! I find tremendous joy in cross breeding, learned it from my late paternal grandfather as a child, but back then, we knew nothing of cross breeding plants of different chromosome levels. To your PBS member, do not be afraid to make all kinds of crosses, some will take and other will fail, and this is the major part of the learning process. It is very exciting to make crosses and dream of what they might be and then wait with anxiety for them to bloom. You will be very happy to see your very own hybrids bloom and be the first person to see them in their glory. Many commercial hybrids for the retail market are not the best, they are just the most easy to propogate and sell quickly at a profit. Hippeastrums are in that group. My best of luck to anyone who cross breeds. I speak everyday with friends who cross everything from exotic birds to plants and there is always some new information to be shared. Barry From piabinha@yahoo.com Thu May 29 11:45:48 2008 Message-Id: <779001.49501.qm@web51901.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Begonia boliviensis Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 08:45:33 -0700 (PDT) is this plant tuberous? i just bought a nice sized pot (labeled Begonia 'Bonfire') the local farmer's market and it's growing and blooming fairly well at home. it's a very thirsty plant for sure. ========= tsuh yang From lizwat@earthlink.net Thu May 29 14:11:40 2008 Message-Id: <483EF1DC.2010905@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: Begonia boliviensis Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:11:40 -0700 Yes, it is tuberous, but it is not as delicate as most other tuberous begonias. Here in the SF bay area it can be left in the ground year round. It can readily be propagated from cuttings. If done fairly soon, the cuttings will form tubers by fall. Liz W piaba wrote: > is this plant tuberous? i just bought a nice sized > pot (labeled Begonia 'Bonfire') the local farmer's > market and it's growing and blooming fairly well at > home. it's a very thirsty plant for sure. > > ========= > tsuh yang > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu May 29 14:12:27 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: Begonia boliviensis Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 08:12:17 -1000 Tsuh, I grow the species B. boliviensis here in Berkeley, CA. It is tuberous and goes dormant in the winter. It is now only starting to come back. I love the thing. It is easily propagated by cutting and spends most of the first year making a tuber. Nhu On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 5:45 AM, piaba wrote: > is this plant tuberous? i just bought a nice sized > pot (labeled Begonia 'Bonfire') the local farmer's > market and it's growing and blooming fairly well at > home. it's a very thirsty plant for sure. > > ========= > tsuh yang > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu May 29 14:51:00 2008 Message-Id: <483EFAF0.3070909@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Chilean plants--sources. Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:50:24 -0700 Annalee wrote: > Kent? You can also check Chile Flora.com as a source for Chilean plants. > It's not eBay > > You can also check Gato's Garden on eBay stores, which is another woman living down in Chile who offers many of the same species seed as Osmani, but has a few species that Osmani doesn't offer. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From Pelarg@aol.com Thu May 29 17:11:52 2008 Message-Id: From: Pelarg@aol.com Subject: Begonia boliviensis Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 17:11:46 EDT Hi Tsuh Yang, Yes, Begonia bolivensis is tuberous. My tuber came from Brent and Becky's a few years ago, it is quite large (maybe 5 inches across) and I just replanted it in a hanging basket outside yesterday. For winter storage in our climate, I wash and dry the tuber off in fall after the plant has died back, and pack it in a plastic ziplock bag. I recommend keeping a watch on it or applying fungicide in case of mold, but so far my tuber hasn't had problems. It is easy to grow outside, but doesn't like our hottest summer days. I think there might be a few strains of it around, the BB strain is an older one, I suspect, but I believe there have been newer introductions from wild collected mate rial, at least out west. Good luck, Ernie D. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From carlobal@netzero.com Thu May 29 20:56:39 2008 Message-Id: <20080529.205411.8058.0@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.com" Subject: Begonia boliviensis Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 00:54:11 GMT I just dry out the pot and bring it in to a cool dry (root cellar, basement, etc.) place. You can pretty much ignore it until it shows signs that it wants to wake up. I haven't TRIED to keep it going by bringing it in before dormancy--don't know how that would work. It was put back outside and watered just a week or two ago after it started into growth. So far it's slow...but it was spectacular all last season, so I can wait... Carlo Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog -- Pelarg@aol.com wrote: Hi Tsuh Yang, Yes, Begonia bolivensis is tuberous. My tuber came from Brent and Becky's a few years ago, it is quite large (maybe 5 inches across) and I just replanted it in a hanging basket outside yesterday. For winter storage in our climate, I wash and dry the tuber off in fall after the plant has died back, and pack it in a plastic ziplock bag. I recommend keeping a watch on it or applying fungicide in case of mold, but so far my tuber hasn't had problems. It is easy to grow outside, but doesn't like our hottest summer days. I think there might be a few strains of it around, the BB strain is an older one, I suspect, but I believe there have been newer introductions from wild collected mate rial, at least out west. Good luck, Ernie D. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ellis@onlinenw.com Fri May 30 01:45:15 2008 Message-Id: <54504BC7-0074-4E4A-B57B-33E83740F617@onlinenw.com> From: Nancy Ellis Subject: Begonia boliviensis Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:45:09 -0700 Ditto here for Carlo's treatment. I've grown it 4 years now. Never thought to grow it year round as understand it has a natural dormancy- perhaps I'm mistaken. Nancy Ellis Dayton, Oregon On 30 May 08, at 12:54 AM, carlobal@netzero.com wrote: I just dry out the pot and bring it in to a cool dry (root cellar, basement, etc.) place. You can pretty much ignore it until it shows signs that it wants to wake up. I haven't TRIED to keep it going by bringing it in before dormancy--don't know how that would work. It was put back outside and watered just a week or two ago after it started into growth. So far it's slow...but it was spectacular all last season, so I can wait... Carlo Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog -- Pelarg@aol.com wrote: Hi Tsuh Yang, Yes, Begonia bolivensis is tuberous. My tuber came from Brent and Becky's a few years ago, it is quite large (maybe 5 inches across) and I just replanted it in a hanging basket outside yesterday. For winter storage in our climate, I wash and dry the tuber off in fall after the plant has died back, and pack it in a plastic ziplock bag. I recommend keeping a watch on it or applying fungicide in case of mold, but so far my tuber hasn't had problems. It is easy to grow outside, but doesn't like our hottest summer days. I think there might be a few strains of it around, the BB strain is an older one, I suspect, but I believe there have been newer introductions from wild collected mate rial, at least out west. Good luck, Ernie D. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri May 30 02:34:09 2008 Message-Id: <483F9FBB.8010101@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Tocantinia mira Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 23:33:31 -0700 Does anyone know anything about Tocantinia mira? I believe it's one of Ravenna's many species and I'm wondering if it's a real species or just some variant of a known Hippeastrum. What does it look like? Why did Ravenna invent a new genus for it? How does it differ from Hippeastrum or other related genera? Thanks for any information. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri May 30 07:43:36 2008 Message-Id: <483FE82C.50801@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Tocantinia mira Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:42:36 -0400 Lee: FYI, K. Kubitzki doesn't list it. Arnold From soberano.sol@bol.com.br Fri May 30 08:10:11 2008 Message-Id: From: "soberano.sol" Subject: Tocantinia mira Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 09:09:32 -0300 Hi Lee and All, Yes, Tocantiniamira is a real specie. I have 3 very small seedlings of Tocantinia mira, with 3 years. This plant grows in the spring/summer, it is dormant in the autumn/winter, is growing slowly. So far, I have noticed that Tocantinia mira leaves smaller, thinner and slightly rounded which Hippeastrum. For more similar to Griffinia. I have no idea of the look of your flowers. The name of the genera is a reference to their region of origin, the region between the great rivers: Araguaia and Tocantins. This plant is considered rare, even in nature. My plants came from seeds received the Institute Plantarum. When my plants thrive and produce its first seed, I will be happy to share some. Regards, Tarcísio Eduardo Raduenz Blumenau - Santa Catarina State - South of Brazil P.S.: Lee, a problem with your e-mail? I tried to send this message to you, but it returned with an error. > Does anyone know anything about Tocantinia mira? I believe it's one of > Ravenna's many species and I'm wondering if it's a real species or just > some variant of a known Hippeastrum. What does it look like? Why did > Ravenna invent a new genus for it? How does it differ from Hippeastrum > or other related genera? Thanks for any information. > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kadai98@yahoo.com Fri May 30 09:12:52 2008 Message-Id: <63650.48985.qm@web57615.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: joon Subject: Bulb ID needed Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 06:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, I'm a new member to the list from Thailand. I've been fascinated Cape bulbs and started to collected them. Anyway, i just got a bulb from a friend and was unable to identify it. I have two pictures of them from the links below. http://www.pantip.com/cafe/jatujak/topic/J6625249/J6625249-8.jpg http://www.pantip.com/cafe/jatujak/topic/J6625249/J6625249-9.jpg I'm told that the flowers look just like in the picture when they open up. Can it be a species of Crinum? Anybody can help me identify the bulb? Thank you very much. Pongsak From alanidae@gmail.com Fri May 30 11:44:28 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alani Davis" Subject: Bulb ID needed Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 11:44:27 -0400 > > Hey Pongsak This is a Crinum jagus form. This is a variable species from mostly central and western Africa with many forms and a degree of confusion with in its taxonomy.However it can be an excellent garden plant. It has naturalized in a number of tropical areas around the world as well and forms of this have been imported to the U.S. from Thailand as "native" Crinums. These types are also mistakenly sold as Crinum moorei often as well which they are not. They flowers in your photos are oddly shaped and seem slightly deformed which I cannot explain unless they are passing or have been through rain. Hope this is helpful Alani Davis > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From Clayton3120@cablespeed.com Fri May 30 11:53:49 2008 Message-Id: <001201c8c26d$0d8912d0$0a428f18@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Clayton3120" Subject: Tocantinia mira Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 08:51:36 -0700 Sounds like an Opera title. ----- Original Message ----- From: "soberano.sol" To: "pbs" Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:09 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Tocantinia mira Hi Lee and All, Yes, Tocantiniamira is a real specie. I have 3 very small seedlings of Tocantinia mira, with 3 years. This plant grows in the spring/summer, it is dormant in the autumn/winter, is growing slowly. So far, I have noticed that Tocantinia mira leaves smaller, thinner and slightly rounded which Hippeastrum. For more similar to Griffinia. I have no idea of the look of your flowers. The name of the genera is a reference to their region of origin, the region between the great rivers: Araguaia and Tocantins. This plant is considered rare, even in nature. My plants came from seeds received the Institute Plantarum. When my plants thrive and produce its first seed, I will be happy to share some. Regards, Tarcísio Eduardo Raduenz Blumenau - Santa Catarina State - South of Brazil P.S.: Lee, a problem with your e-mail? I tried to send this message to you, but it returned with an error. > Does anyone know anything about Tocantinia mira? I believe it's one of > Ravenna's many species and I'm wondering if it's a real species or just > some variant of a known Hippeastrum. What does it look like? Why did > Ravenna invent a new genus for it? How does it differ from Hippeastrum > or other related genera? Thanks for any information. > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From antennaria@charter.net Sat May 31 11:11:23 2008 Message-Id: <20080531111121.T4OOE.57980.root@fepweb07> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Allium, a sprinkle of Iris, and just a dash of orchid Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 8:11:21 -0700 I'd like to share with you all some plants that are currently flowering in the garden, or have just recently flowered... it's been a good spring so far. Allium crenulatum 'Olympic Sunset' has been in bud for 2 months, teasing me for such a long time, the sheathed bud swelling to an improbably plump size. Here's a view early on, showing the neat falcate leaves and nestled buds. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_crenulatum_Olympic_Sunset_2008c.jpg The buds finally started opening a couple days ago, and it'll be a couple more days before peak, but here are two ciews of this beautiful little allium from Washington state. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_crenulatum_Olympic_Sunset_2008d.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_crenulatum_Olympic_Sunset_2008e.jpg Thanks Jerry! Can you tell us anything about where this plant was found and who named it? The flowers have a peculiar scent, a sort of chemical or turpentine aroma (one must lie on one's belly to get low enough to sniff the flowers). Another Allium needs identification, but I haven't had time to attempt keying it yet, so if anyone can offer a guess, let me know. It was labelled Allium "auctum" which is generally considered a synonym of A. nigrum, or even A. decipiens, but it is neither. This large flowered dwarf beauty has taken over 10 years to flower from seed. It has 3 broad grey leaves, and a grapefruit sized head of of large starry lilac flowers accented with purple ovary and stamens... WOW! Looking through Janis Ruksans' powerpoint slide show on Allium, it looks somewhat similar to Allium akaka. Take a look, the following views taken this past weekend, and the last shot taken yesterday (5/30/08). The flowers have a mild sweet scent. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_sp_not_auctum2008d.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_sp_not_auctum2008e.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_sp_not_auctum2008f.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_sp_not_auctum2008g.jpg Next are two views of Allium decipiens. This plant really gets around by seeding far and wide... not sure how the seeds disperse so broadly. For one of the taller alliums, it's never a bother when it seeds in amongst something smaller, as the pair of glossy green leaves are small and unobtrusive, quickly drying up and disappearing after it's May through early June bloom. The smallish dense heads of lilac flowers are pleasant. You can notice in the two views, how this species behaves in a heliotropic manner, the buds always chasing the sun position, thus leaving the stems bent and crooked near their summit. Mildly sweet scented. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_decipiens_2008c.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_decipiens_2008b.jpg One of the very first alliums to bloom in the spring is A. zebdanense, yet while early, it is still in bloom although near finishing for the season. One of the very best and non-invasive of the popular white-flowered alliums, it makes lovely clumps in the woodland garden. It'll grow in sun too, but the foliage is paler in sun, and the growth is more attractive in shade. Here's a view of plants growing in a sunny spot, growing up amongst chives and other allium species: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_zebdanense_2008d.jpg In the following view, we see the graceful habit of a small clump of this species growing in a shade garden, the buds unopened. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_zebdanense_habit_2008a.jpg And lastly, here's a view back in the sun, with A. zebdanense growing among beautiful dense clumps of blue-speared foliage of Allium antyncolicum, a chive relative from Mongolia. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_antyncolicum_and_zebdanense.jpg The giant among the giant alliums, is A. altissimum, with stems that top out at over 5' tall. This is my favorite of the big types that increases slowly but reliably. It shares the same heliotropic sun-chasing tendencies of A. decipiens, often resulting in whimsical bends and turns in the sturdy, non-flopping wand-like stems. The big balls of lilac-purple won't be showing until another week or two, but its foliage is attractive, looking rather lettuce-like and "juicy" succulent. Here's a view of the foliage, with the ascending stem of another species, Allium chelotum from Iran, growing right behind it. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_altissimum_foliage_2008a.jpg The following two views are from June 2006, showing the coiling stems in full flower. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_altissimum_1.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_altissimum_2.jpg Speaking of Allium chelotum, this is a seldomly encountered species. My bulb came from Arnis Seisums, the original stock from the Elburz Mts of Iran. It flowers reliably yet has not increased which has me worried that I might lose this beauty. It has just finished blooming, but was quite a sight for about three weeks in May. The flowers are decidely pink, accented with thick beet red pedicels: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_chelotum_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_chelotum_2008c.jpg Here at full anthesis, the expanded flower head is really attractive with the protruding stamens and dark ovaries. Notice on the left are stems of Allium altissimum that quickly shot up and exceeded the 3' (1 meter) stem on A. chelotum. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_chelotum_2008d.jpg In this last view, notice the sun-chasing buds on Allium altissimum, a good view with which to compare the size and aspect of both species. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_chelotum_view2008b.jpg Blooming for many weeks, and still attractive with dark red fleshy capsules after flowering, is Allium karataviense 'Red Globe'. The dark red globes of bloom are enormous, a striking complement to the blue-gray foliage. Here are three views, from buds just breaking, to full anthesis, and finally to seed capsule stage now: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_karataviense_Red_Globe_2008b.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_karataviense_Red_Globe_2008d.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_karataviense_Red_Globe_2008e.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Allium_kara_RedGlobe_capsules.jpg A few Iris to take notice about. The first is an Aril bred Iris (thanks Jim), a single fan that has grown ever so slowly and finally decided to bloom. It is Iris 'Lancer', a striking beauty to be sure. Oversized grape-blue flowers with a deep wine colored spot on the falls, and a light grape fragrance. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_Lancer_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_Lancer_2008b.jpg Not a great photo, you'll get an idea about the unique form of Iris cristata 'Dick Redfield', where there are 6 falls instead of three falls and 3 standards, yielding a distinctive appearance to the flowers. This was planted out last year, so it is still small and only had a total of three flowers. Here's a view of a single flower, which is also beautiful on account of the strong contrasting coloration. It is available from Garden Vision epimedium nursery (mail order). http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_cristata_Dick_Redfield_2008a.jpg And last, just to tease Jim Waddick, as he mentioned having difficulty growing Iris cycloglossa in his area, here are three photos taken close to dusk last night (5/30/08) after I got home from work. This plant always surprises me, because it is so slim and economical of foliage that it doesn't seem possibly that it can suddenly burst open with such sumptuously large flowers. A plant in full bloom almost doesn't look real. The flowers are spicy sweet scented to boot! This year there are 8 flowering stems. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_cycloglossa_2008b.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_cycloglossa_2008c.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Iris_cycloglossa_2008a.jpg To close out this message, I have selected a non-bulb, an easy terrestial orchid that I'm sure will be familiar to you all, Cypripedium calceolus var. pubescens. It's worth taking note that the coloration of the sepals can vary quite a bit on this "Cyp", a striped coppery-olive color on my plants, compared to the darker brown coloration often seen. This spring has been an extraordinary one, and everything is flowering better than ever, and this cyp presented itself with such glorious flowers, that I had to share a couple of views taken last weekend. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Cypripedium_calceolus_pubescens_2008c.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Cypripedium_calceolus_pubescens_2008d.jpg ...and a smaller flowered form with darker sepals: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Cyp_calceolus_pubescens_darkerform.jpg good growing to you all, Mark McDonough Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border, USDA Zone 5 antennaria@charter.net From lizwat@earthlink.net Sat May 31 14:29:31 2008 Message-Id: <4841990D.9060807@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: Begonia boliviensis Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 11:29:34 -0700 It goes through its natural dormancy out in the garden here, dies back late fall, sprouts early spring and has started to bloom now but will be much larger by summer. Liz W Oakland, CA Nancy Ellis wrote: > Ditto here for Carlo's treatment. I've grown it 4 years now. Never > thought to grow it year round as understand it has a natural > dormancy- perhaps I'm mistaken. > > > Nancy Ellis > Dayton, Oregon > > > >