Diane Whitehead wrote: " I don't know where these "late summer rains" fall. Up here they start in October, which is fall. We occasionally get a light rain in August and September, but not enough to split the tomatoes." I'll confess to almost total ignorance of west coast growing conditions. However, I do know a thing or two, and that knowledge is based on the copious information provided - over a span of nearly twenty years - by David Griffiths from the Bellingham, Washington bulb trials back in the early part of the last century. Griffiths frequently mentions that this or that work had to be completed before the August rains started. Seed sowing and some bulb planting, for instance, were scheduled to be completed before the start of the rains. That's what I had in mind when I wrote those comments in response to Max's query. With regard to what Max has read about the conditions under which Lilium bolanderi will germinate, let me point out that the suggestions I made are based on my personal experience, on results I have gotten here, not on what I have read (although reading about it was what prompted me to do it). I remain gravely skeptical about the suitability of warm stratification for west coast lilies. But maybe we need to define "warm". How far is Oakland from San Francisco? Remember that great witticism about the coldest winter ever experienced was a summer in San Francisco? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/