Thanks a lot for that posting, Jim. I'm really keen on Hymenocallis occidentalis now, although I have to admit that I barely know it. I have two plants which I've had for a year or two; I've never been too sure what to do with them. I found your comments on your experiences with plants from various sources interesting. I have no idea where my plants came from. Have you ever wanted a plant so much that instead of doing the right, bold thing and just planting it and letting it take care of itself, you coddle it and slowly drive it to the brink? That's what I did with the Hymenocallis liriosme obtained from Thad Howard forty years ago. I don't want to do this to my Hymenocallis occidentalis, so your comments are a big encouragement. They are coming out of the pots and going into the ground soon. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Iris 'Dardanus' is putting up lots of scapes - as are the tall bearded garden iris. Today's rain, gentle so far, caught some of the tree peonies in full bloom: they are all staring at the mud tonight.