I shoulds just like to correct a point made by Jim McKenney: the breeder of the lovely Lilium x dalhansonii (first flowered 1890) was one C. Baden Powell, not Robert BP the founder of the Scouts, who would have been serving in India at the time. Incidentally, if one ever wants a good laugh, the first edition of 'Scouting for Boys' is hilariously absurd, giving good advice on how to tell a man's character from how he wears his hat, etc. It's incredible that the man was ever taken seriously. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP