pbs Digest, Vol 35, Issue 18-bulb predators

robertwerra@pacific.net robertwerra@pacific.net
Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:00:52 PST
I've grown in pots and raised beds and battled moles,  voles, mice, and
recently squirrels. Beds three by twenty feet are well protected by 1/2 in.
galvanized "hardware cloth" -"aviary wire" placed 10-12 in. below the
surface and up above on all sides attachedto a woodenedge 2-4 inches abive
the surface. For good measure I put a 3 foot wide wire connecting piece up
to the surface evert 7 ft. to well contain any invaders. This has worked
well for 10 years without surface covering for my calochortus bed..
However, this year I made a moraea bed and something started digging them.
so I put hardware cloth on the surface which has helped. Mice have been a
problem for my pots, particularly in the dormant period. They seem to like
bite sized crispy corms of moraeas particularly M. macronyx and ciliata.
They don't seem to like calorchorti. I've countered this with 5/8
in.chickenwire on top of the pots and pressed down around the edges. It
works but is alot of work and a nuisance. This year I've switched to plastic
fake 1/2 inch hardware cloth (It's alot easier to cut to size) and press it
in and cover it with a layer. The problem is that weed and plant growtth
pushes it up in the air and once you remove it you can't put it back without
crushing the plants. I think I will experiment with wider mesh- 5/8
inch.chicken wire that should let the plants through easier. I will tempt
the mice with a pot of buried peanuts under 5/8 inch chicken wire and see if
it keeps them out.  Bob Werra in winter rainfall inland California
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 7:46 AM
Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 35, Issue 18


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Ipomoea platense (was Newbie) (Floral Architecture)
>    2. Bomarea (Floral Architecture)
>    3. soap-caging bulbs (Diane Whitehead)
>    4. Re: Ipomoea platense (was Newbie) (Leo A. Martin)
>    5. Re: Crocus predators (bonaventure@optonline.net)
>    6. Re: Crocus predators (Diane Whitehead)
>    7. Re: soap-caging bulbs (Brook Klehm)
>    8. Re: soap-caging bulbs (Diane Whitehead)
>    9. Re: Albuca (Rachel Saunders)
>   10. Re: soap-caging bulbs (Lauw de Jager)
>   11. Re: Crocus predators (Carol Jensen)
>   12. Re: soap-caging bulbs (arnold trachtenberg)
>   13. Re: Crocus predators (arnold trachtenberg)
>   14. Re: Ipomoea platense (Cynthia Mueller)
>   15. Re: Crocus predators (Lis Allison)
>   16. Re: soap-caging bulbs (P. C. Andrews)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:20:50 -0800 (PST)
> From: Floral Architecture <john@floralarchitecture.com>
> Subject: [pbs] Ipomoea platense (was Newbie)
> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <20051214042050.41388.qmail@web36209.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Jim,
>   I. 'Blackie' flowered on the patio this summer in OH. I had never seen
the bloom before. It was quite interesting. It was a small tubular morning
glory. The rich purple/lavender color was a great compliment to the black
foliage.
> I'll try to upload photos when I get a chance. Is there a page for
Ipomoea?
>
>
> John Ingram in L.A., CA.
> http://www.floralarchitecture.com/ "Your Clivia Connection"
> john@floralarchitecture.com
> 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:23:45 -0800 (PST)
> From: Floral Architecture <john@floralarchitecture.com>
> Subject: [pbs] Bomarea
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <20051214042345.96579.qmail@web36215.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I love this little genera. I only have one species that has flowered for
me but I'm hooked. I have B. hirtella (about 6 or so seedlings). One plant
has flowered all summer in the shade and I expect more of the seedlings to
follow suit next summer.
>   I have ordered a few other seeds from various sources and I want more.
The 1 year to sprout is rather trying so I am trying to put them somewhere
and forget about them (the result of that is that they dry out and ergo,
die).
>
>
>
> John Ingram in L.A., CA.
> http://www.floralarchitecture.com/ "Your Clivia Connection"
> john@floralarchitecture.com
> 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:38:26 -0800
> From: Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com>
> Subject: [pbs] soap-caging bulbs
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <p06230900bfc532d10b66@[192.168.2.4]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> Jane's need to protect rare crocus bulbs from being eaten by rodents
> reminded me of something I found when we were cleaning out my
> grandmother's house.
>
> It is a small strong wire cage with a handle. Back when people used
> big yellow bars of Fels Naphtha instead of Tide to wash clothes, it
> was used to hold the remaining small pieces of soap which would be
> swished around in a basin of water.
>
> You could probably find some in the dusty corner of a thrift shop, as
> I'm sure no one knows what they are.
>
> Oh oh.  I just did a Google search, and they've been discovered.  One
> sold on ebay for $10 Australian. It was large enough to hold a
> complete bar of soap, 10.5 inches long.  That would hold a lot of
> bulbs. I'd better hit those thrift stores soon.
>
> Diane Whitehead
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:08:30 -0700 (MST)
> From: "Leo A. Martin" <leo@possi.org>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Ipomoea platense (was Newbie)
> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <64886.12.65.156.247.1134536910.squirrel@http://www.possi.org/>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Jim Shields wrote
> > does anyone know if these tuberous morning glories bloom
> > when grown in gardens north of the deep south? The ornamental
> > sweet potatoes are common in gardens here, but I don't recall
> > ever seeing one in bloom.
> >
> > And if they bloom, are any of them notable for their flowers?
>
> I think sweet potatoes (originally African, I think) need a long season to
> bloom. I haven't grown the ornamental ones so I don't know about them
> blooming.
>
> The unusual tuberous ones bloom reliably for my friends in the Henry Shaw
> Cactus Society in St Louis, Missouri. There are a lot of African species
> like I. holubii and I. bolusii that bloom with the first growth in the
> spring. Others need to have a fair amount of top growth before blooming.
>
> They are all known for fairly large flowers, though none are as large as
> the annual garden vines. Most are in shades of white through purple.
>
> Also, genus Merremia has many species of tuberous morning glories. M.
> aurea is native to the southern Sonoran Desert in Mexico. If you've ever
> been in Baja California and seen a vine with bright yellow flowers
> covering a shrub or tree, it's this plant. There are other Mexican species
> with white flowers and red throats. Rachel at Silverhill sells various
> African Merremia species. They are very easy to grow. One Merremia aurea
> seedling I grew in a pot only had four small leaves its first year on a
> stem no taller than its large chopstick support. In that first year it
> developed a tuber larger than a store-bought sweet potato.
>
> At the Desert Botanical Garden here in town M. aurea covers a small fence
> near Webster Auditorium. Sweeping up seeds from the patio is a daily
> summer job for the staff.
>
> http://www.dbg.org/
>
> Leo Martin
> Phoenix Arizona USA
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:28:28 -0500
> From: bonaventure@optonline.net
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus predators
> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <e3f6bbf53e32.439f672c@optonline.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Must've been a big trap and a noisy ride. How did you get 60 squirrels in
there all at once?  :-)
>
> Bonaventure Magrys,
> serious gardener
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:14:56 -0500
> From: Arnold Trachtenberg <arnold@nj.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus predators
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <439F8020.9020500@nj.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> We seem to return to is thread at least once a year when the rodents
> wreck havoc upon our crocus.  Since I live in an area without predators
> other than a stray cat on occasion, other measures are required which
> involve either trapping and relocating the rodents or  removing them in
> other ways.    I can tell you that it can become a full time
> occupation.  I removed 60 squirrels one  year just by setting a
> Have-a-hart  trap and taking the squirrels on a ten mile ride.   It is
> either them or your bulbs as I see it.
>
>  Arnold
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:34:22 -0800
> From: Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus predators
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <p06230903bfc55d2cf903@[192.168.2.4]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> Considering the price of vanilla, I'm not going to treat my rodents
> to that, though maybe some of that artificial stuff would work.
>
> I rub peanut butter on a short piece of string and tie it to the bait
> ledge on a rat trap.  I also set the trap between bricks so it can't
> be set off from the side and catch the rat in a non-lethal but very
> painful way.
>
> Diane Whitehead
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:20:31 -0800
> From: Brook Klehm <bklehm@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] soap-caging bulbs
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <4e23e5430b2eaecf091b43abf2124f59@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Caging plants was the best way to deal with gophers in my California
> garden.  I used 1/2" (12mm) aviary wire to try to keep the critters
> out.  Would a completely enclosed cage work against mice?  I suppose
> that Jane's special crocus are in pots sunk in a gravel bed (or such
> like).  Could you simply cover the bed with aviary wire that was pegged
> down?  It wouldn't look very nice, but I suppose that the blooming
> plants get moved to a more attractive location while in bloom?  No need
> to search Ebay for antique soap cages (we still use one of these at my
> grandparents place) just make the baskets yourself (and prepare for
> roughing up the tips of your fingers).
> Brook
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:53:36 -0800
> From: Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] soap-caging bulbs
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <p06230900bfc56fe05b4a@[192.168.2.4]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"->
> >Caging plants was the best way to deal with gophers in my California
> >garden.  I used 1/2" (12mm) aviary wire to try to keep the critters
> >out.
>
> That mesh is too big.  Even a rat can get through a hole that size,
> and I think a mouse can crawl through the centre tunnel in uncooked
> bucatini. Amazing creatures.
>
> Diane Whitehead
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:51:14 +0200
> From: "Rachel Saunders" <silverhill@yebo.co.za>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Albuca
> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <040801c60087$29140280$0100a8c0@SERVER>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> All Albucas are now Ornithogalums - it has been published.  In our seed
> catalogue we are still calling them Albuca as everyone knows what Albucas
> look like!  The reason for the lumping is that there are quite a few
species
> that overlap the 2 genera and cannot be put into either genus with any
> certainty.  If anyone is interested I can look for the reference.
> Regards
> Rachel Saunders
> Tel +27 21 762 4245
> Fax +27 21 797 6609
> PO Box 53108, Kenilworth, 7745 South Africa
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mary Sue Ittner" <msittner@mcn.org>
> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:34 AM
> Subject: [pbs] Albuca
>
>
> > Dear Linda,
> >
> > I'm not sure how to answer your question about whether all Albucas are
now
> > Ornithogalums. As Jane wrote, Manning and Goldblatt do seem to be
lumping
> a
> > lot of South African genera. Ornithogalum was already a large genus
before
> > <http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…>Albuca,
> > <http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…>Dipcadi,
> > Galtonia, Neopatersonia, and
> >
>
<http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…>Pseudoga
> ltonia
> > were to be added to it. In South Africa when we visited and looked at
> > plants in the field there were Ornithogalums that I thought were Albucas
> > until told otherwise because they looked like the Albucas I was familiar
> with.
> >
> > On the other hand we heard that Speta was splitting Scilla which like
> > Albuca is in the same family into many new genera which is going in the
> > opposite direction at the same time. Some of those proposed changes I
> > understand from Julian Slade who follows all of this could change again
> > with some of the new genera (Fessia, Pfosseria, Zagrosia - possibly also
> > Alrawia, Othocallis, and even Puschkinia)  being sunk into Hyacinthus.
> >
> > It does seem like Manning and Goldblatt are very highly respected in
South
> > Africa and often what they propose is accepted.
> >
> > We have discussed on this list that we can choose to go along or not and
> as
> > long as you include the name of the person who published the specific
> > epithet you are always correct. Unfortunately for most of us gardeners
> that
> > is not information that most of us pay much attention to. I think it
> > becomes increasingly difficult to know if we are talking about the same
> > plant if it goes by many names. I try to add the synonyms to the wiki if
I
> > can figure out what they are.
> >
> > If you are interested in Albuca I hope you have checked out our wiki
page
> > as Albuca was one of our topics of the week and Julian Slade provided us
> > with a very complete introduction. Perhaps he will comment on Linda's
> > question if he is reading this.
> >
> > >Mary Sue, are all Albuca now Ornithogalum? or is this still in the
> proposal
> > >stage.
> >
> >
> > Mary Sue
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pbs mailing list
> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:22:44 +0100
> From: Lauw de Jager <dejager@bulbargence.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] soap-caging bulbs
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <BFC58855.D56C%dejager@bulbargence.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Dear All.
> My mice problem was solved a few years ago by planting bulbs wire netting
or
> in plastic boxes  Most "wire netted pots" and boxes are open at the top.
> Until this season a intelligent strain discovered that entry from above is
> possible. Before I discovered 2 boxes of Moraea polystachya were
completely
> wiped out.  Then I put ordinary mice bait (decorticated aots) in all the
> boxes to redirect their appetite.  Since a month no vertical digging has
> been observed and I assume that this generation has disappeared. Covering
> the pots and plants with wire netting creates numerous practical problems.
> Remains to be seen.
>
> Season Greetings
>
>
> Lauw
>
> le 14/12/05 7:20, Brook Klehm ? bklehm@comcast.net a ?crit?:
> > Caging plants was the best way to deal with gophers in my California
> > garden.  I used 1/2" (12mm) aviary wire to try to keep the critters
> > out.  Would a completely enclosed cage work against mice?
>
> Lauw de Jager
> http://www.bulbargence.com/
> South of France (zone 8 Olivier)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:40:32 +0100
> From: Carol Jensen <jorna@mobilixnet.dk>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus predators
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20051214113852.01d71ec0@mail.mobilixnet.dk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> At 01:39 14-12-2005, you wrote:
> >Speaking of mice and mouse-like objects, has anyone had problems with
them
> >in a greenhouse? I have a delapidated structure in which I over-winter a
> >large collection of cactii and succulents (don't ask why I have these I
> >don't know the answer) and amaryllis and I am having the devil's own time
> >with something that is digging in the pots and eating the roots. I find
> >the plant lying beside the pot, rootless, and all the soil pushed out of
> >the pot. There is always open water in the buckets for the chickens so it
> >can't be looking for a drink.
> >
> >I am trying mothballs. So far the main effect is that the chickens, in
the
> >adjacent hen pavilion, are laying mothball-scented eggs.  :)
> >
> >Lis Allison, Carp, Ontario, Canada, -20C tonight and colder tomorrow
> If the hens  can get into the greenhouse, then it may be them. I am
wondering how your fragile plants can overwinter in a cold and dilapidated
greenhouse? None of mine would live in mine, and winters are rather nice in
Denmark. Doesn't it freeze in your greenhouse?
>
> Carol
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:24:42 -0500
> From: arnold trachtenberg <arnold@nj.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] soap-caging bulbs
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <43A00F0A.5080904@nj.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Lauw:
>
> Sorry what is
>
> (decorticated aots)
>
> Arnold
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:26:11 -0500
> From: arnold trachtenberg <arnold@nj.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus predators
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <43A00F63.1000506@nj.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Bonaventure:
>
> It actually isn't that bad, just play something on the radio that they
> like and they'll even sing along.
>
> Arnold
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:42:44 -0600
> From: "Cynthia Mueller" <c-mueller@tamu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Ipomoea platense
> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <439FDB0402000008000D9093@ag.tamu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Ornamental sweet potatoes such as 'Marguerite' or 'Blacky' bloom here in
> College Station, either in the greenhouse or when planted out.  The
> flowers are not flashy, having sometimes fleshy-whitish-or-greyish tones
> with a darker center.  They're small, too, and don't last but a day.
> Haven't seen any seed balls, but in the greenhouse there may not be any
> proper pollinators.  'Marguerite' when pulled up in the fall has many
> large, white tubers left behind.  Even though in most winters there is
> nothing but a few frosty nights (above 25F) no ornamentals seem to last
> through the winter outside.  Real sweet potatoes are perennials in my
> garden.  If you get by without an infestation of mites or aphids, cut
> pieces of ornamentals can be overwintered on a windowsill in a colored
> glass bottle with water.
>
> Cynthia Mueller
> College Station TX
> Zone 8b-9
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:15:39 -0500
> From: Lis Allison <garden@pine-ridge.ca>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus predators
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <200512141115.39597.garden@pine-ridge.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Carol and others,
>
> No, the hens are in their own space. My greenhouse is one of those
> experimental efforts built by a semi-engineer ex-hippie and her computer
> geek husband. The structure has a fatal flaw and so has become lopsided
> but still works. The south side is lexan panels, the north wall of the
> greenhouse is cement blocks with lexan openings, and the hens are on the
> north side of that wall with a solid wall on their north. There's a
> little entry area with a door (lexan) between the hens and the plants.
> Got all that?
>
> Basically the thing is solar-heated but on cold days I have an electric
> heater. This is something I have to review because those dogone little
> heaters don't seem to last. The thermostat goes almost at once so I have
> to go up there to turn it off on sunny days, back on at
> night.....bo-o-r-r-ing. But it stays above freezing alright. My dahlias
> enjoy a winter sleep under the bench, and my amaryllis snooze happily in
> the hay on the hen side. My cactii and orchids like the large
> differential between the day and night temperatures. Unfortunately the
> cactii are getting much too big. I like them when they are small, but
> what the heck am I going to do with them now that they are getting many
> feet tall? Or wide? Hate to toss them, but they need to be planted in
> ground beds.....which means a new greenhouse......hmmmmm.
>
> Anyway, don't worry, my hens aren't eating the mothballs, my plants aren't
> freezing, and the mice or whatever seem to be staying away from the
> mothball-treated pots.
>
> Lis Allison, Carp, Ontario, Canada, still -20C but sunny and fine today
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:46:17 -0500
> From: "P. C. Andrews" <pcamusa@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] soap-caging bulbs
> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <BAY108-F185AC3F2BBC3B4240F478BB7380@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> decorticated oats?
> -Phil
>
>
> >From: arnold trachtenberg <arnold@nj.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >Subject: Re: [pbs] soap-caging bulbs
> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:24:42 -0500
> >
> >Lauw:
> >
> >Sorry what is
> >
> >(decorticated aots)
> >
> >Arnold
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >pbs mailing list
> >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> pbs mailing list
> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
>
>
> End of pbs Digest, Vol 35, Issue 18
> ***********************************
>


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