Ken, when you ask " So, >why is the color I dislike in asiatic lilies, likeable in a different >type of Lily? the answer, as you yourself have indicated, is that they are different oranges. I grow lilies too, and I have some experience with their peculiar color range. Part of the "trouble" with lilies such as Enchantment is that we no longer see them in context. What I mean is that Enchantment is a very old lily for a hybrid lily - as you no doubt know, it dates from the years just before the Second World War. (Anyone still around who was there at its christening must be an old guy by now : ), right, Mr Bryan?) Back in those days, although there were Asiatic hybrid lilies, they apparently had "bad" colors: either dull or strident. Whites, good pinks and pastels didn't exist among Asiatic hybrids. When Enchantment was introduced, its comparatively clear, sparkling color must have seemed wonderful for a garden lily. As you noted, the orange in trumpets is a different orange. Apparently the orange color in hybrid trumpets comes from Lilium henryi. The white colors and orange colors are from different pigment groups; when they are combined they produce a soft, sometimes muddled, effect. It's a soft, orange sherbert sort of color in trumpets, and a very nice color it is. But it never has the glossy, sparkling quality which some orange Asiatic hybrid lilies have. But here I think is the real reason, and it's been mentioned in these threads recently: Hemerocallis fulva. Its ubiquity has made it a force to be considered. It has strong ties to "white trash gardening". Use it well and it's glorious; place it carelessly and it spoils a wide range of colors. If you want to see it in glorious mode, place it near a bright blue bench. If you want to see it spoiling everything around it, simply look in most gardens. Summers here are miserable: the heat, humidity and air pollution make summer my least favorite season. And the one color I don't want to see during the summer is a murky, cloudy orange. The color of Hemerocallis fulva is to me the embodiment of all that is worst about our local climate: wonderful potential (there's nothing wrong with orange) spoiled by heat, humidity and polluton (the grayed color effect). Clear bright oranges in the summer are another matter entirely! Colors are tricky. I thought I didn't like the color of Hemerocallis fulva. One year it was blooming with Lilium tsingtauense. I was enthusiastic about the color of Lilium tsingtauense, and thought of it in the most laudatory terms. Then I placed a bloom of Hemerocallis fulva next to one of Lilium tsingtauense. The color is almost exactly the same! The lily flower has a glossy surface and the daylily has a matte surface, and that certainly influenced my perception of them. But they are essentially the same color. A friend in the nursery business once explained that business in a nutshell: people buy color. Color in the garden is a bit like sound: and I think most people are listening to Rap rather than Mozart. Most people seem to want noise and excitement at the beginning of their gardening experience. As sophistication (or whatever it is) grows, they eschew orange. I say don't avoid it, learn to use it. I have no intention of growing old surrounded by mauve and lilac harmonies. Jim McKenney jimmckeeny@starower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, zone 7, where if you look carefully you can see a speck of welcome orange on the witch hazels