From msittner@mcn.org Wed Dec 1 10:50:29 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041201074110.01e905d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: New Wiki Pages Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:49:46 -0800 Dear All, Dave Brastow has made a new wiki page for a genus I know nothing about, Codonopsis. It's another genus with blue flowers. Hopefully he'll tell us more about the ones he grows. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Codonopsis He also has created an extremely interesting contributor's page including a picture. I encourage you all to read it as it will make you smile. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/DaveBrastow Mary Sue From scamp@earthlink.net Thu Dec 2 02:06:40 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200412427640641@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: BX/87 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 02:06:40 -0500 Hello All, I seem to have missed some of the BX, how did we get to BX87? If any body has copies please send to me from BX82-BX87, I would like to see what I have missed. I think perhaps something is wrong with my computer again, Thanks. Chris > [Original Message] > From: Paul Tyerman > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 11/29/2004 5:32:51 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] BX/87 > > At 09:05 30/11/04, you wrote: > >I am sorry to say that I lost my list for BX/87, would some one be so kind > >and tell me what 4, and 21 were. > > Pat, > > From BX 81...... #4 and #21 are as follows.... > > >From Arnold Trachtenberg: > > 4. Offsets of Colocasia esculenta which I over winter in a cold attic in > bags of just moist coir. > > >From Jane McGary: > > 21. Paradisea lusitanica: Summer-flowering, about 80 cm tall, white. > > > > Cheers. > > Paul Tyerman > Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 > > Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Trilliums, Cyclamen, > Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just > about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From buj.joschko@freenet.de Thu Dec 2 08:53:52 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: [pbs] Old Mystery Bulbs and a new one from Argentina Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 14:54:25 +0100 Dear Mary Sue , I have send you earlier some pictures of unknow plants from St. Victoria / Argentina . Now I have received a identification for these plants .Friends of me show this pictures Brian Mathew and he says this is shure Haylockia andina - so now it's possibly to make my pictues away from "Mystery bulbs " and take a new link with Haylockia . Thank you . Best regards Hans -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]Im Auftrag von Mary Sue Ittner Gesendet: Samstag, 16. Oktober 2004 16:44 An: Pacific Bulb Society Betreff: [pbs] Old Mystery Bulbs and a new one from Argentina Dear All, Here's the link for the new pictures from Hans. I hope the Argentina members of our list (and any others) will be able to help him identify his plants. We drew a blank on most of the plants he last posted from the Peru trip except for one possibility from Diana Chapman. I've still left them up there, but find that we rarely get i.d.s on plants that are on that Mystery Page a long time so am eager to remove or relocate most of these pictures once they have been on that page a long time. Please everyone look over the mystery bulbs that have been there and see if you can help us figure any of them out. If not I am hoping that Arnold T., Jane McGary, Lee Poulsen, Angelo P., Jim McKenney and Cynthia M. will review their pictures on this page and let me know privately whether we should take them off or just add them to wiki pages as unknowns for that genus. Thanks everyone. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs Mary Sue PBS List and Wiki Administrator _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Thu Dec 2 10:58:19 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041201101023.01e99f00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Conanthera, Spiloxene on wiki Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 07:57:44 -0800 Hi All, Some time ago I added a couple of pictures of yellow flowered Spiloxene capensis to the wiki that my husband had photographed in South Africa when we visited August-September 2003. One he photographed at the IBSA display table (next to an Oxalis) with a dark center and another he photographed at Alan Hortsmann's. This latter has a light yellow green almost iridescent center. I also added a picture of a S. canaliculata with pollinator at Gordon Summerfield's that did not have the usual dark center. I think Spiloxenes are so stunning. I just wish I found them easier from seed. I also added some pictures of the very distinctive corms. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Spiloxene Bill Dijk is off hiking the Milford Track, but before he left he sent me a little text and some Conanthera pictures for the wiki to illustrate one of his favorite blue flowers. He promises to add some more pictures on his return. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Conanthera Mary Sue From masterson4@cox.net Thu Dec 2 19:54:55 2004 Message-Id: <001e01c4d8d2$b2b16b00$6401a8c0@Masterson> From: "The Masterson Family" Subject: BX87 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 16:54:52 -0800 I also missed BX87 and quite a few others. The last one I remember getting notice of was BX78 or BX79. I thought I was the only one left out. Mike Masterson From dells@voicenet.com Thu Dec 2 20:21:17 2004 Message-Id: <200412030121.iB31LGH4012679@voicenet.com> From: Subject: BX87 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:21:16 -0500 (EST) There has not been a BX 87. That was a typo. The most recent one was BX 81. Dell On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 16:54:52 -0800, "The Masterson Family" wrote : > I also missed BX87 and quite a few others. The last one I remember getting notice of was BX78 or BX79. I thought I was the only one left out. > > Mike Masterson > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From arlen.jose@verizon.net Thu Dec 2 20:25:45 2004 Message-Id: From: "arlen jose" Subject: Spiloxene Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:25:38 -0500 Greeting All, A few months ago I purchased some spiloxene capensis and decided to hold them over for winter planting. Well, they've starting to sprout and it turns out...I haven't the slightest idea on how to grow them. I currently have a few different pots of cyrtanthus that are starting to spike and was wondering if they would grow in the same medium. The cyrtanthus are growing in a gritty but rich mix of Pro-Mix potting soil 50%, granite grit 20%, compost 10%, sand 10% and fine fir bark 10%. They seem pretty happy and was wondering if the spiloxene would enjoy the same mix. Any advice from the expert South African geophyte growers would be greatly appreciated. Warm Regards, Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA USDA Zone 6b From dkramb@badbear.com Thu Dec 2 21:04:35 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041202205818.01ba1268@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Conanthera, Spiloxene on wiki Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:59:14 -0500 >Bill Dijk is off hiking the Milford Track, but before he left he sent me a >little text and some Conanthera pictures for the wiki to illustrate one of >his favorite blue flowers. He promises to add some more pictures on his return. >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Conanthera Gorgeous!!! It reminds me very much of the local Dodecatheon wildflowers and also Solanum dulcamara (deadly nightshade) from Europe. Dennis in Cincinnati From toadlily@olywa.net Thu Dec 2 21:17:07 2004 Message-Id: <41AFCC94.5050801@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: Spam, missing messages and filters. Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 18:16:52 -0800 Chris Council and all The recent email ragarding BX 87 from Chris brought up a real problem facing group users. I sent email to Chris about the typo in the BX numbers, only to receive the return email below. Earthlink allows (requires?) the use of "White Lists" to block spam. Senders' names must be on the list before email will be actually delivered to Chris. Obviously, Chris has added the PBS list to her list, or else she wouldn't be getting PBS list postings. I don't have Earthlink, so I don't know if Chris is informed that there is suspect email, and can request that it be forwarded. The problem is that when individual members such as myself try to respond "off list", we're blocked. The result is either lost email or a HUGE increase in PBS list messages that are really for one person only. I know that spam is a big problem, and wish I had a complete solution, but I don't; however, the use of a "White List" is only really good for one-to-one correspondence, where all mail is from known sources. What we do is use filters, which look for key words in the subject, senders or bodies of messages, and automatically reject those we are sure we don't want. Some things get through, but we don't miss things we want from new sources either (such as a new email address from an old friend, people sending from a library or internet cafe computer, people refered to you by mutual acquaintences ...). Almost all mail programs have filters, useful also for pre-sorting your mail into folders. The first filter (of about 20 that each piece of email is compared to) on our computer is called "Killer of obvious Spam", and gets rid of a long list of things that I can't list here, or people using filters that search the actual messages won't get this email. I hope this helps some people get desired messages, especially PBS posts. Dave Brastow -----------< Sent by Earthlink >-------------------- This is an automatic reply to your email message to scamp@earthlink.net This email address is protected by EarthLink spamBlocker. Your email message has been redirected to a "suspect email" folder for scamp@earthlink.net. In order for your message to be moved to this recipient's Inbox, he or she must add your email address to a list of allowed senders. Click the link below to request that scamp@earthlink.net add you to this list. https://webmail.pas.earthlink.net/wam/addme?a=scamp@earthlink.net&id=1czLWd4633NZFmQ0 ----------------------------------------------------- From scamp@earthlink.net Fri Dec 3 01:07:46 2004 Message-Id: <410-220041253674982@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: BX87 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 01:07:49 -0500 Thanks Dell, I really do plan to work in the early evening instead of in the middle of the night. Take Care, Chris > [Original Message] > From: > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 12/2/2004 8:21:18 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] BX87 > > There has not been a BX 87. That was a typo. The most recent one was BX 81. > > Dell > > On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 16:54:52 -0800, "The Masterson Family" > wrote : > > > I also missed BX87 and quite a few others. The last one I remember getting > notice of was BX78 or BX79. I thought I was the only one left out. > > > > Mike Masterson > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From scamp@earthlink.net Fri Dec 3 01:13:12 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004125361315371@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: Spam, missing messages and filters. Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 01:13:15 -0500 Hello once again, I have received a lot of virus email lately and I just deleted them. If anybody wants to reach me I can be reached at Yahoo under the Oxalis Group list. Take care, Chris > [Original Message] > From: Laura & Dave > To: > Date: 12/2/2004 9:17:08 PM > Subject: [pbs] Spam, missing messages and filters. > > Chris Council and all > The recent email ragarding BX 87 from Chris brought up a real > problem facing group users. I sent email to Chris about the typo in the > BX numbers, only to receive the return email below. Earthlink allows > (requires?) the use of "White Lists" to block spam. Senders' names must > be on the list before email will be actually delivered to Chris. > Obviously, Chris has added the PBS list to her list, or else she > wouldn't be getting PBS list postings. I don't have Earthlink, so I > don't know if Chris is informed that there is suspect email, and can > request that it be forwarded. > The problem is that when individual members such as myself try to > respond "off list", we're blocked. The result is either lost email or a > HUGE increase in PBS list messages that are really for one person only. > I know that spam is a big problem, and wish I had a complete > solution, but I don't; however, the use of a "White List" is only really > good for one-to-one correspondence, where all mail is from known sources. > What we do is use filters, which look for key words in the subject, > senders or bodies of messages, and automatically reject those we are > sure we don't want. Some things get through, but we don't miss things > we want from new sources either (such as a new email address from an old > friend, people sending from a library or internet cafe computer, people > refered to you by mutual acquaintences ...). Almost all mail programs > have filters, useful also for pre-sorting your mail into folders. The > first filter (of about 20 that each piece of email is compared to) on > our computer is called "Killer of obvious Spam", and gets rid of a long > list of things that I can't list here, or people using filters that > search the actual messages won't get this email. > I hope this helps some people get desired messages, especially PBS > posts. > > Dave Brastow > > -----------< Sent by Earthlink >-------------------- > This is an automatic reply to your email message to scamp@earthlink.net > > This email address is protected by EarthLink spamBlocker. Your email > message has been redirected to a "suspect email" folder for > scamp@earthlink.net. In order for your message to be moved to this > recipient's Inbox, he or she must add your email address to a list of > allowed senders. > > Click the link below to request that scamp@earthlink.net add you to this > list. > > https://webmail.pas.earthlink.net/wam/addme?a=scamp@earthlink.net&id=1czLWd4 633NZFmQ0 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From totototo@pacificcoast.net Fri Dec 3 13:38:10 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Spam, missing messages and filters. Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:44:16 -8 On 2 Dec 04 at 18:16, Laura & Dave wrote: > ...Earthlink allows (requires?) the use of "White Lists" to block > spam. And as usual with anti-spam measures, this facility is badly thought out. It requires that one use a web url to allow email. This violates the design principle of keeping communications and their responses in the same channel, so that those souls with only email access can still respond. Doing so also simplifies response for those of us using pure email clients instead of combination web exploders and email messers like IE/Outlook or Netscape Communicator. As matters stand, if I get one of these, I just ignore it and figure it's the other party's loss, not mine. If anyone on Earthlink is reading, forward my remarks to them. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From msittner@mcn.org Sat Dec 4 10:50:09 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041204073134.01ed9d90@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Spiloxene Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 07:48:27 -0800 Dear Fred, I don't know if anyone responded to you privately about growing Spiloxene. Spiloxene capensis is a winter grower that comes up some time in the fall and blooms in spring. Trying to grow it otherwise probably wouldn't work over time. Correct me if anyone has been able to hold it to bloom later in the year. I'm not sure what triggers it into growth (temperature, light?). Many of the species in this genus like moist places and I think your suggested growing medium sounds like it would work. You will have to shelter yours from the cold so will be controlling the watering and when you do that the medium is not quite so crucial. I just plant mine in my usual mix I use for most of my South African bulbs. One thing about Spiloxene capensis. It will set buds, but they will not open unless there is enough warmth and light. On cold overcast days here during their time of bloom (February to April for me in Northern California) they stay closed and may only open other days for those few hours in the middle of the day when it finally gets warm enough. I've planted them in the ground where they are quite happy, but wish I had found warmer sunnier spots for some of them. Those I have in containers can be relocated to a nice warm spot while they are blooming. If Mark Mazer grows them in a greenhouse he can perhaps add his experiences. Mary Sue From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Sat Dec 4 11:09:51 2004 Message-Id: <003101c4da1b$ac253bf0$a3def7a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Spiloxene Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:09:44 -0800 I'm not sure what triggers it into growth (temperature, light?). I think it's dropping temperatures, since the bulbs will start sprouting in the bins (as do gladioli) in about September. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Sat Dec 4 12:19:07 2004 Message-Id: <5b.5e3efd4c.2ee34b86@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Spiloxene Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 12:19:02 EST In a message dated 12/4/2004 10:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, msittner@mcn.org writes: If Mark Mazer grows them in a greenhouse he can perhaps add his experiences. Hi Mary Sue: Sorry, I don't grow this, yet! But, as for managing growth, this year I decided to try and keep the western bulbs unwatered until the beginning of the year. This proved troublesome they started to grow without water, starting with many of the Brodiaea, then Bloomeria and then onto quite a few of the Calochortus. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Sat Dec 4 12:54:46 2004 Message-Id: <00e001c4da2a$56284da0$a70ae150@John> From: Subject: Spiloxene Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 17:19:44 -0000 Does anyone grow other species of Spiloxene besides S. capensis? There are 25 spp in South Africa and 4 in Australasia, according to Goldblat & Manning. Several were flowering when I was in South Africa in August-September this year and they form an attractive component of the Cape bulb flora. Unfortunately we were a little early for S. capensis in full glory, but S. canaliculata, with equally large but rich orange-yellow flowers with a dark eye, was magnificent in one or two places. Others were mostly smaller flowered (~ 2-3 cm diam.) and mostly yellow. The most extraordinary species, at least in terms of behaviour is S. aquatica, which grows in seasonal pools or damp places. When actually in water the leaves and flowering stems elongate and float like a waterweed, with the small, pure white flowers floating on the surface; an extraordinary sight among geophytes. Where it grew out of water the plants were perfectly normal and rather undistinguished upright-growing monocots. I would be most interested to hear if anyone has grown this plant. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Dec 4 15:41:29 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Ruksans seeds for sale Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 12:41:25 -0800 A Canadian seed company is offering seeds from Janis Ruksans this year. They are mainly Alliums, Frits and Junos. I got my order in fast. One I was amazed to find offered: Iris zenaidae, a Juno, whose bulbs sell for $40 each. Even if you don't want to buy seeds, it is worth looking at the amazing pictures of seeds on their homepage. http://gardensnorth.com/site/ The Ruksans seeds are listed under '2005 Collection' as they are not part of the regular offering. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From robertwerra@sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 5 00:01:42 2004 Message-Id: <20041205050142.33843.qmail@web81004.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robert Werra Subject: Gethyllis cilliaris Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 21:01:42 -0800 (PST) Dear John; I am not an expert on Gethyllis, but I grow Gethyllis villosa in a climate simmilar to LA- No. Calif. It's a winter raifall So. African. A July TOW was on Gethyllis with discusion by a coule of experts. If you can't find them contact me. I may have printed one. I would plant right away and start watering. Sincerely, Bob Werra --- John Ingram wrote: > Can anyone give me some info on this plant? A > supplier > has offered me some bulbs but I have no idea what to > do with them if I get them. > > > ===== > John Ingram in L.A., CA. > www.floralarchitecture.com check it out > Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com > 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call > accordingly. Thank you) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Sun Dec 5 04:09:26 2004 Message-Id: <1CasOM-13LreK0@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> From: Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de (Gerhard Stickroth) Subject: Ruksans seeds for sale Date: 05 Dec 2004 09:08 GMT Hallo Sepp, schau mal da rein, da könnte etwas interessantes dabei sein. Wenn du auf der weside bist schaue unter '2005 Collection' Gruß Gerhatd "Diane Whitehead" schrieb: > A Canadian seed company is offering seeds from Janis Ruksans this > year. They are mainly Alliums, Frits and Junos. I got my order in > fast. One I was amazed to find offered: Iris zenaidae, a Juno, whose > bulbs sell for $40 each. > > Even if you don't want to buy seeds, it is worth looking at the > amazing pictures of seeds on their homepage. > > http://gardensnorth.com/site/ > > The Ruksans seeds are listed under '2005 Collection' as they are not > part of the regular offering. > -- > Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > maritime zone 8 > cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) > sandy soil > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From john@johnlonsdale.net Sun Dec 5 09:38:00 2004 Message-Id: <20041205143800.2BCC04C005@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Update to http://www.edgewoodgardens.net - The Lonsdale Garden web site Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 09:37:55 -0500 Folks, I have just added another 500 or so new images to my web site (http://www.edgewoodgardens.net). There is something of interest to members of all the lists included in the distribution, hence the cross posting. Most of the taxa are represented by multiple images, often of several different forms. They were taken in the garden here over the past 9 months. As requested by several people, I have included below a simple list of the plants featured, to allow them to be searchable in the archives. The new images have already been incorporated into the correct sections of the Plant Galleries and can be found individually using the search function on each page of the album. In addition to the new images, I have also done a considerable amount of housekeeping, removing some poor quality images and replacing others with better pictures. As always, comments on ID, format, issues etc. are welcome. In particular, I've uploaded a lot of Epimedium pictures, of plants with lost labels; any help on identifying those will be gratefully received. I've also added the text from an article on Trillium that was published in 'Bulbs', the Bulletin of the International Bulb Society, this spring. This can be viewed via the 'Cultivation' page. Over the next few months I plan on subdividing certain of the categories further to the species level, this should make navigation a lot easier in those categories which now contain upwards of a hundred images. Thanks, J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b Adonis vernalis Allium decipiens Allium kharputense Allium oreophilum Kusavli Curl Allium oreophilum Samur Allium psekemense Allium pseudoserawschanicum Allium schoenoprasum Allium sp. Allium thunbergii Ozawa Anemone appennina Anemone nemorosa & x seemanii Anemone nemorosa Anemone quinquefolia Anemone trifolia Anemonella thalictroides Anemonella thalictroides Betty Blake Anemonella thalictroides Doubles Anemonella thalictroides Green Dragon Asarum canadense Bellevalia pycnantha Bletilla striata Brodiaea californica Brodiaea elegans Brodiaea pallida Cactus sp. Calochortus sp. Cardamine diphylla Eco Moonlight Cardiocrinum giganteum Cercis chinensis Colchicum cupanii ssp. pulverulentum PB324 Colchicum sp. Corydalis buschii Corydalis fumarifolia Corydalis solida Firecracker Corydalis zetterlundii Crocus alatavicus Chimgan Crocus biflorus ssp. melantherus Dmitsana Greece (sieberi sublimis MH99) Crocus biflorus ssp. melantherus KKK3 Sparta Tripolis Crocus boryi CEH582 Crocus cancellatus Crocus cancellatus ssp. cancellatus Icel Turkey Crocus cancellatus ssp. cancellatus LB402 Crocus cancellatus ssp. hermoneus SBL119(DBS9906) Crocus caspius ex. P. Furse Crocus corsicus albus Crocus hadriaticus ssp. hadriaticus forma lilacinus Crocus hadriaticus SBL438 Greece Crocus hyemalis ex Judean Mts Israel Crocus hyemalis SBL118 Jordan Crocus korolkowii Crocus kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus HKEP9295 Crocus laevigatus CEH612 Evvia Greece Crocus laevigatus ex AG Crocus laevigatus ex N66-10 Crocus laevigatus ex N67-10 Crocus laevigatus JCA347.403 Crocus laevigatus PB120 Crocus laevigatus PB4920 Crocus laevigatus SL171 Crocus laevigatus white form with gold reverse Crocus niveus Crocus ochroleucus JCA349.200 Crocus ochroleucus JCA350.200 Crocus ochroleucus RRW88.23 Crocus oreocreticus ex. JMcG Crocus oreocreticus JCA349.610 Crocus oreocreticus PB137 Crocus oreocreticus PB138 Crocus pallasii ssp. dispathaceus JKP98-122 Crocus pallasii ssp. haussknechtii LB320 Crocus pallasii ssp. pallasii PB414 Mt Lazarus Samos Crocus pallasii ssp. turcicus LB382 Crocus pulchellus (Crocus biflorus ssp. alexandrii S0220 Mt Falakro) Crocus pulchellus S0238 Crocus pulchellus var. albus Crocus serotinus ssp. clusii Portugal Crocus serotinus ssp. salzmannii SBL213 Crocus serotinus ssp. serotinus SF237 Crocus sp. ex Bondarenko (not angustifolius x reticulatus) Crocus sp. fall ex VP99 Crocus speciosus Crocus speciosus dark seedling Crocus speciosus with 8 petals Crocus speciosus x pulchellus Crocus thomasii Crocus thomasii ex Apulia Crocus tournefortii Crocus tournefortii and Cyclamen cilicium Crocus vallicola Crocus veneris PB181 Paphos Cyprus Crocus wattiorum HKEP9548 Crocus x paulinae Cyclamen africanum Cyclamen cilicium Cyclamen colchicum Cyclamen cyprium Cyclamen graecum ssp. graecum Cyclamen graecum ssp. anatolicum Cyclamen graecum ssp. candicum Cyclamen hederifolium Cyclamen hederifolium Cyclamen mirabile Tilebarn Nicholas Cyclamen pseudibericum Cyclamen purpurascens Cyclamen rohlfsianum Cyclamen seedlings Daphne arbuscula var. albiflora Delospermum Kelaidis Delospermum White Nugget Dianthus sp. Dicentra canadensis Dicentra cuccularia Dicentra peregrina seedlings Echinocereus sp. Various unidentified epimediums Epimedium brachyrrhizum Karen Epimedium brevicornu forma rotundatum Og.82010 Epimedium chlorandrum hybrid Cc.960109 Epimedium davidii Cc.980084 Epimedium dolichostemon Og.81010 Epimedium ecalcaratum Cc.970229 Epimedium grandiflorum Epimedium grandiflorum Album Cc.950063 Epimedium grandiflorum Princess Susan Cc.960044 Epimedium grandiflorum var. flavescens Epimedium illicifolium Cc.950019 Epimedium lishihchenii Epimedium myrianthum Epimedium pubescens Epimedium rhizomatosum Cc990112 Epimedium sempervirens variegated Cc.970190 Epimedium sempervirens variegated Cc970190 Epimedium sempervirens Violet Queen Cc.950138 E33 Epimedium sp. Epimedium stellulatum long leaf form Cc.970049 Epimedium stellulatum long leaf form Cc970048 Epimedium stellulatum pink form Cc.95 Epimedium stellulatum Pink NAWD092 Cc95 Epimedium x omeiense Starlight Cc.990537 Epimedium x versicolor Cupreum Cc.950143 Epimedium x youngianum Epstein seedling Cc.950085 Epimedium x youngianum Japanese cultivar Cc.960051 Eranthis hyemalis pale form Erythronium americanum Erythronium californicum Erythronium helenae Erythronium hendersonii Erythronium Joanna Erythronium Pagoda Erythronium revolutum Erythronium Sundisc Erythronium tuolumnense hybrid Erythronium White Beauty Fritillaria pallidiflora Fritillaria pudica Fritillaria thunbergii Glaucidium palmatum Helleborus x hybridus White ex Ballard Hepatica asiatica ssp. japonica f. magna Hepatica Louise Kohler Hepatica nobilis Hepatica yamatutai Ipheion Alberto Castillo Ipheion Rolf Fiedler Iris aff. galatica BM-9568 Iris anguifuga Iris atropurpurea Iris histrio var. sophehensis (Hoog) Iris histrioides var. aintabensis (Hoog) Iris lutescens MS953 Iris mandschurica Iris paradoxa x iberica ssp. elegantissima Iris rosenbachiana Vahsh Iris sari Iris sp. aff. reichenbachii Iris suaveolens Isopyrum biternatum Jeffersonia dubia Kirengeshoma palmata Lewisia brachycalyx Lewisia rediviva Lilium canadense Lilium michiganense Magnolia Daybreak Mertensia virginica variegated form 1 Narcissus Englander Narcissus hybrid Oxalis obliquifolia Paeonia cambessedessii Paeonia mlokosewitchii emerging Paeonia russoi Phlox bifida ex Illinois Phlox stolonifera Bruce's White Polygonatum sp. Ponerorchis graminifolia Pulsatilla albana Pulsatilla vulgaris Sanguinaria canadensis Sanguinaria canadensis dwarf compact form Sanguinaria canadensis Pink Form Scilla puschkinioides ARJA Sternbergia fischeriana form 2 Sternbergia greuteriana Sternbergia sicula Selia Gorge S Crete Syneilesis aconitifolia Trillium aff. flexipes Susquehanna Trillium aff. underwoodii Trillium cuneatum Trillium discolor Trillium ex Ruby Falls TN Trillium grandiflorum roseum Trillium lancifolium Trillium ludovicianum Trillium maculatum Trillium nivale Trillium pusillum var. alabamicum Trillium pusillum var. georgianum Trillium pusillum var. pusillum Trillium recurvatum Trillium sessile Trillium sp. Trillium underwoodii Trillium underwoodii ex E Alabama Triteleia peduncularis Tulipa batalinii Tulipa clusiana ssp. aitchisonii Uvularia grandiflora From msittner@mcn.org Sun Dec 5 11:44:57 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041205073544.02009bc0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Spiloxene Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 08:42:59 -0800 Dear John, I grow S. canaliculata and S. serrata. I am fond of them both. S. serrata is smaller, but long blooming and quite charming in an understated way. I have found the Spiloxenes difficult from their small seed. A couple of them have germinated the first year and others in the second year, but not in great numbers. I am grateful to Julian Slade who donated seed to IBSA for two of the species I was able to get from seed to bloom. We too have enjoyed seeing Spiloxene in the wild, even though we weren't always sure of which species we were seeing. I don't think any of our digitals of S. aquatica came out very well for the wiki, but Lauw took his shoes off and waded in the water and he might have been more successful. Andrew Harvie from Australia who is not on our list (alas) has crossed S. capensis and canaliculata. He wrote on one of the Aussie lists they "produced some fantastic colours from even darker pink to mixed orangy pink flowers, also a yellow." He obviously knows how to grow them from seed. Jim Duggan once wrote that S. serrata was one of his longest blooming bulbs which is why I wanted to grow it. On my database from last year I noted my two plants bloomed from February to April. I've tried a couple of times to grow S. linearis from seed, but haven't had any germination. Gordon Summerfield has been collecting different forms of Spiloxene capensis as he has found in the wild wide variation in color and markings. Julian Slade awhile back on one of the Australian lists wrote that the Australian botanists still considered their "Spiloxenes" Hypoxis. Is this still so? Does anyone grow Empodium? It looks like a fall blooming Spiloxene with pleated leaves. I don't grow it and can't remember seeing it offered. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Mon Dec 6 01:20:38 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041205215321.00d981f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Haemanthus--TOW Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 22:18:19 -0800 Dear All, In the September 2004 Veld & Flora Cameron and Rhoda McMaster published an article: An assortment of Haemanthus: five species and various forms of this interesting bulbous plant from the Eastern Cape. Cameron has expanded this article for an introduction to the topic of the week. He has also provided 18 new pictures for the wiki of some of the species described in that article and this introduction. All of our messages have to be in text, but I have saved his Introduction, which will be in two parts since it is long, in htm format and will link it on the wiki Haemanthus page for those of you who might want to print it out with the formatting intact. Here is the first part: Haemanthus L. (Amaryllidaceae) TOW Confined to South Africa and Namibia, the 22 currently known Haemanthus species are characteristically fleshy, often hairy plants, well known for their compact, brush-like inflorescences. Their specialised fruits are berries which contain a few large, moisture-rich seeds. Bulbs of Haemanthus were amongst the first plants gathered at the Cape and subsequently cultivated in the gardens of Europe. The earliest known description appeared in 1605 where plants (probably H. coccineus and H. sanguineus) were given the phrase name Narcissus Africanus sive Narcissus exoticus. The name Haemanthus was first proposed by Hermann in 1687 and thereafter appeared in many publications in the form of Haemanthus africanus. Baker published a taxonomic treatment of Haemanthus in Flora Capensis (1896), which included Scadoxus. In a brief review of the genus by Friis and Norval in 1976, the generic limits of the Haemanthus were amended and the genus Scadoxus reinstated. As presently circumscribed, Haemanthus includes only species with true bulbs, distichous fleshy leaves and a chromosome complement of 16. The last comprehensive taxanomic treatment of Haemanthus was by Dr Dierdré Snijman of the Compton Herbarium, Kirstenbosch, Cape Town, published in 1984 (Journal of South African Botany, Supplementary Volume No. 12), from which much of the information in this introduction is taken. She lists 21 species in this revision and subsequently described one further species (Haemanthus pauculifolius). Of the 22 species, 14 occur exclusively in the winter rainfall region with a concentration of species in the dry Namaqualand region of the North West Cape. Six species occur exclusively in the summer rainfall region and there are two species which overlap into both regions, namely H. coccineus which has the widest range extending from Namaqualand to the Keiskamma River in the Eastern Cape and H. albiflos which is a summer rainfall species, extending as far west as Still Bay in the winter rainfall region. Most species bear two leaves each year. The shape, pubescence, markings and orientation are valuable taxinomically. In the evergreen species H. albiflos and H. deformis, leaves persist beyond a year, resulting in 4 to 6 visible leaves. The majority of individuals in H. unifoliatus and H. nortieri and H. pauculifolius have only a solitary leaf, but in the latter species, being evergreen, the leaf persists and may exhibit two leaves. Haemanthus flowers are borne in an umbel surrounded by membranous to fleshy spathe valves, the position, number and texture of which is taxinomically important. The fruit is a globose to elliptical berry which when ripe is soft, pulpy and often translucent varying in colour white, yellow, orange, red and various shades of pink, depending on the species. The seeds are succulent, smooth and greenish-white to wine red. Dr Dee Snijman, in her article "What makes Southern Africa’s Amaryllidaceae special" in the IBSA Bulletin No. 42 (1994), describes the seed dispersal as follows: "When in fruit the scape of Haemanthus elongates and gradually flops to the ground. The funicle which holds the seed to the fruit wall produces copious mucilage, aiding germination by protecting the seed from desiccation. This mode of dispersal is thought to be one in which the seeds are shed in "safe-sites", namely patches close to the parents’ suitable habitat. This strategy maximises the suitability of the niche in which the seed is deposited which in turn maximises seedling survival. However, the species’ ability to spread is limited." It was always a puzzle to me how plants of H. humilis could become established on almost vertical places between the rock strata on cliffs where they grow. When handling ripe seed, we soon realised that this is due to fact that the seeds are connected to sticky threads that enable them to adhere to virtually any surface and, under favourable conditions they become rooted seedlings. This feature is probably common to other cliff growing species. (to be continued) Cameron McMaster africanbulbs at haznet.co.za From msittner@mcn.org Mon Dec 6 10:20:05 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041205215420.00d9bb10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Haemanthus--TOW (continued) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:19:12 -0800 Here is the rest of the Haemanthus introduction: Dr Snijman has classified Haemanthus into four groups of closely allied species: H. humilis Group 1. H. humilis Jacq. 2. H. carneus Ker Gawler 3. H. montanus Baker 4. H. avasmontanus Dinter H. crispus group 5. H. crispus Snijman 6. H. barkerae Snijman 7. H. tristis Snijman 8. H. namaquensis R.A. Dyer H. albiflos group 9. H. albiflos Jacq. 10. H. deformis Hook f. 11. H. pauculifolius Snijman H. coccineus group 12. H. sanguineus Jacq. 13. H. canaliculatus Levyns 14. H. pumilio Jacq. 15. H. lanceifolius Jacq. 16. H. amarylloides Jacq. 17. H. graniticus Snijman 18. H. nortieri Isaac 19. H. coccineus L. 20. H. dasyphyllus Snijman 21. H. unifoliatus Snijman 22. H. pubescens L.f. The Haemanthus humilis group, which are summer rainfall species, flower from mid summer. Haemanthus avasmontanus is known from the type specimens only, collected from the Auasberge, south east of Windhoek in central Namibia. The winter rainfall species, which include both the H crispus and H. coccineus groups flower in autumn. A number of species in the winter rainfall region are locally endemic and under considerable threat. The most notable of these are H. tristis, H canaliculatus, H. pumilio and H. lanceifolius. The H. albiflos group are evergreen and flower in winter or early spring. My personal experience of Haemanthus is confined largely to the summer rainfall species, and more specifically to those which occur in the Eastern Cape. My observations of Haemanthus in the Eastern Cape were published in the September 2004 edition of Veld and Flora, the organ of the South African Botanical Society. I have been fascinated by the variability of local populations, particularly of the H. humilis humilis group which occur over a wide range of habitats. H. humilis is widespread but occurs in isolated and localised populations in specialised habitats, which is probably the reason for the variation between populations. The most spectacular form is one we call "Giant" which we observed with binoculars growing on a steep cliff in full shade on the opposite bank of the Great Kei River. I had to swim the river and scale the cliff to get seed, and now have a well established population in the nursery as a seed source and bulbs of various ages for sale. It has leaves as large as 60cm in diameter and it has an enormous flower head. In sharp contrast is a miniature form growing near King Williams Town with tiny flower heads on stems less than 20cm in height, which we call "Dwarf". Two other noteworthy variations of H. humilis in the Eastern Cape are an early flowering form from the Graaff Reinet area of the central Karoo. This form has small cerise flowers with bright yellow stamens very, very attractive. We have also collected seed from a pure white form with pubescent leaves growing in Acacia thicket in the Stutterheim district of which we now have stock. Closely allied to H. humilis is the enigmatic H. carneus known from only a very few disjunct populations. This rare species flowers in January and is distinguished by a looser, widely spreading umbel and stamens included well within the perianth, the only known Haemanthus with this feature. It has the same growth pattern as H. humilis, with leaves emerging just after the flowers and persisting to late spring. It occurs in Acacia thicket and grassland on a mountain near Somerset East. One wonders whether H. carneus should be considered separate from H. humilis on the basis of the small difference mentioned above. What confuses the issue is a further form which occurs some 40km further west on Bruintjieshoogte, which has stamens the same length as the perianth tube, a feature shared by the white form of H. humilis from Stutterheim mentioned above. These seem to be intermediate between H. carneus and H. humilis. Isolated populations of Haemanthus with included stamens occurring near Escourt in Natal and near Jagersfontain in the Free State, have been attributed to H. carneus. Charles Craib writing in IBSA Bulletin No. 48 (1999) expressing the same reservation, also queried this distinction, basing his query on the fact that populations of H. carneus and H. humilis hirsutus occur near to each other in identical habitats near Estcourt. Dr Snijman, commenting in the same publication suggests that the shorter stamens of H. carneus could be an adaptation to exploit a different pollinator to H. humilis, and that should this be the case, it is possible that two taxanomic entities might be reproductively isolated in the wild despite their shared physical habitats and close geographic proximity to one another. Haemanthus montanus occurs in isolated local populations from the Eastern Cape northwards. The Bedford district is probably its most southern extremity. H. montanus grows in small areas of poorly drained shallow soil with an impervious substratum. It completes its annual cycle in four to five months, the period during which its fairly hostile habitat remains moist. It occurs in dense stands, the large cream flowers appearing from December to January, rapidly followed by two upright leaves. The seed ripens by mid-February and germinates rapidly around the parent plants. The leaves dry off and blow away by the end of May when all signs of the bulb population have vanished. The most widespread Haemanthus in the Eastern Cape is H. albiflos which is amazingly adaptive and versatile in its habitat. It is a particularly desirable and easy to grow garden subject and is also suitable as a ground cover in areas of semi-shade. It is equally at home in deep shade on forest floors, on rocky sea shores exposed to salt spray, in coastal dune forest, on cliff faces in hot river valleys where it clings in large clumps to crevasses in full sun, and in shady places on high altitude inland mountain ranges. It is evergreen and multiplies vegetatively, as well as from seed. The attractive white flowers appear in May and the ripe seeds are carried in equally attractive clusters of scarlet fruit. It is very surprising to find the West Cape species, H. coccineus, which flowers in autumn, occurring as far east as the Keiskamma River valley near Hamburg It grows here in Valley Thicket vegetation together with a small form of H. albiflos which flowers in winter, so they don't hybridize. H. coccineus occurs from here, a summer rainfall region, westwards through the winter rainfall region of the Western Cape and up to the arid regions of Namaqualand and Namibia, an enormous range of 2000+ kilometers and climate variation! The flower stems can be reddish, or blotched with red. and the leaves have varying degrees of stripes and dots on the underside. Recently we moved to Napier in the Western Cape where H. coccineus and H. sanguineus grow in the wild. Both species have very similar flowers and occur in the same habitats. They are only easily distinguishable by the leaves, and since they bloom before leaves emerge, it is sometimes a puzzle to be sure of the species. In contrast to H coccineus, H. sanguineus has tough, leathery leaves, rounder in shape with a distinct reddish margin and always flat on the ground. There are no markings on the underside of the leaves. Haemanthus are easy to propagate from seed. Seed will germinate soon after ripening but germination can be retarded by keeping it in a fridge. Sowing of seed is easiest after a strong radicle has formed, when they can be placed in rows in a seed box of well drained seedling mix with the radicle in the soil and the seed on the surface. Water sparingly but do not allow the seed box to dry out. Leaves form rapidly. Most species retain their leaves for the first year. Seedling bulbs can be kept in seed boxes for a year or two after which they should be transferred to individual containers. The secret is well drained soil rich in organic matter. Winter rainfall species should be kept dry in summer and only watered again when growing season commences in late summer. Summer rainfall species are more tolerant of watering all year round and should not be allowed to dry out completely in their dormant phase. Evergreen species should be kept moist all year round. Species from high altitudes such as H. humilis, H. carneus and H. montanus should be fairly hardy and are able to tolerate 5 to 6 degrees of frost. We have found H. albiflos, H. coccineus and H. humilis "Giant" the easiest to propagate and fastest growers. While not difficult to cultivate, other species are rather slower to develop. It will be interesting to have comments from other growers concerning their experience in propagating Haemanthus. The wonderful flowers that are eventually produced are ample reward for patience and care in growing them. Cameron McMaster africanbulbs at haznet.co.za Please consult the Haemanthus wiki page to see photos of the species described in the introduction: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Haemanthus From dejager@bulbargence.com Mon Dec 6 12:48:03 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Spiloxene Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:48:11 +0100 Dear Mary Sue, This brings back happy memories. It was along the road side just north of Tulbagh where we saw this multitude of small white flowers in 20cm (8") of water. I just looked up the picture, but it was not very well focussed. It shows several small white flowers on a branched stem, rounded petals and a yellow center. Let me know if you still want it. Regards Lauw 5/12/04 17:42, Mary Sue Ittner à msittner@mcn.org a écrit : > We too have enjoyed seeing Spiloxene in the wild, even though we weren't > always sure of which species we were seeing. I don't think any of our > digitals of S. aquatica came out very well for the wiki, but Lauw took his > shoes off and waded in the water and he might have been more successful. > Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) From jshields@indy.net Mon Dec 6 13:23:18 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041206125212.02207470@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Haemanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:22:57 -0500 Hi all, I've been fascinated with Haemanthus for many years. However, until about 7 years ago, I grew only Haemanthus albiflos. This has proved itself to be a vigorous plant, surviving in pots and increasing steadily over the years. It sets seeds from self-pollination almost every year now. H. deformis is surviving, as two bloom-size bulbs purchased as mature bulbs. They do not offset, and their roots are much more sensitive to excess moisture that is the case with albiflos. We have raised a batch H. pauculifolius from seed. Most are growing well and producing offsets, but none have bloomed so far. One or two clones are so vigorous that I expect to be able to propagate them soon and eventually offer for sale. In 1997, Silverhill Seeds started to offer fresh seeds of Haemanthus species from all over, and I bought some right away. It has been a long, hard struggle to learn to grow them, and the floral results have been sparse. Much of that sparseness has been due to my own inexperience growing them. Transplanting Haemanthus seedlings before they are 4 years old is a recipe for retardation. No matter how strong the temptation, I have gradually learned not to disturb Haemanthus seedlings any earlier before that. So be sure you plant any seeds you start in a pot where they can stay undisturbed for the next 4 years, at least. I also asked for the provenances of any seeds I bought, and I find that the H. coccineus seeds from Gifberg have leaves that are elongated and well marked with transverse striations on the outside of the leaves at the bases. The seedlings of the Gifberg batch that were left alone for 5 years are much bigger than those that were repotted after 2 or 3 years. The H. coccineus seedlings from Bainskloof have broader, shorter leaves, that have less well-marked striations underneath. Finally, H. coccineus grown from seed from Richtersveld have the largest leaves and the least basal striation. None of these have bloomed. H. barkerae is also here. I have plants from three batches of seeds, planted in three different years. Accession #259 were planted in 1997 and repotted after only 1 year. These are still small; they were truly stunted by the premature repotting. Accession #368, a small batch planted in 1998 and repotted in 2000 are the biggest and most interesting of the H. barkerae batches. These bloomed this summer for the second year. Of the four bulbs, two bloomed more or less normally, while the other two tried to bloom but the inflorescences aborted while still in the neck of the bulb. Three of the four are also producing offsets. Accession #936 were planted in 2000 and have not been repotted so far. They are small and very slow growing. I consider #368 to be a uniquely vigorous strain of H. barkerae and I have plans to work with it further. I have been growing (or trying to grow) several other species of Haemanthus too. Maybe I will comment on the Haemanthus humilis group later. Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Dec 6 14:00:58 2004 Message-Id: <2959299F-47B9-11D9-9E6F-000D9356700E@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Fwd: Chilean seeds offer Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:00:57 -0800 I hope I'm not breaking any of the rules of the list or of the list's host by forwarding this message from Osmani. He asked me if I would forward it to the lists he is not on, if I thought it was appropriate. Since I know how desirable, but difficult to obtain, native Chilean bulbs are, I thought there would be others on this list who would want to know about this offer, especially since as Osmani also says, Flores & Watson, the only other regular source of Chilean natives, are not offering anything this year. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 ============================================================ Here is part of an intro Osmani posted to another list. (I've tried to get him to sign up for PBS): <> ============================================================ Begin forwarded message: > From: Osmani Baullosa > Date: December 6, 2004 6:18:23 AM PST > To: Australian_Bulbs@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] Chilean seeds offer > > Dear all, > > I want to share with you some ideas that have been on my mind for > sometime. I guess this will be of interest to you, and that you might > want to participate in this project. In fact, this has been suggested > to me, in part, by some forum members. > > Because my garden in the city is running out of space, it’s time that > I look towards creating a new garden where I can conserve the > virtually expiring treasures of Chilean native bulbs. I need to > accumulate sufficient funds in order to do so, and one method I can > use is to offer for trade, or sale, seeds including (but not limited > to) these native bulbous plants. > > I´m trying to conceive some other ways to get financial resources. > This might be just one. But for now, I still have only intentions. > > What I want to offer you, is not only helping me, but also taking the > chance to enjoy this marvelous plants in your own garden. I don´t > expect donations, I just want to trade. > > I know that traditional sources of Chilean native bulbous´ seeds, such > as Flores & Watson, will not be made availability this season. Then, > my offer will be a prominent   alternative source for those seeds. > I´ve heard their list is huge. My list could in your opinion contain > seeds equally as interesting as those found on the Flores & Watson > list. > > Because it is harvest time I need to know your requests now even > though I don’t have a full account of all available species nor seed > quantities. Regretfully requests received in a few weeks most likely > will not be met (not available). > > Please note: I have not these seeds at home yet. I would have to make > some trips to get them, since I know the place where the plants are. > It´s a long trip, in some cases, and I will not do it if you are not > interested in the seeds. (Please, check the list in file attached) [I > appended the text only.] > > Once I have received your requests, there´s something else to be done, > before I trip: I have never seen Flores & Watson list; I´m afraid some > of the seeds I want to offer have not been sold before, or often. For > all of them, the price should still be determined. > > Of course, there are many details to be cleared, besides prices: > trading ways, payment tools, etc… > > Anyway, the first thing to be cleared, I suppose, is: are you really > interested inthaving some of this species in your own garden? > > Best regards, >   > Osmani > ============================================================ ➢ Leucocoryne purpurea ➢ Leucocoryne coquimbensis ➢ Leucocoryne ixioides ➢ Alstroemeria cummingiana ➢ Alstroemeria pulchra ➢ Placea arzae ➢ Rhodophiala bagnoldii ➢ Rhodophiala advena ➢ Phycella ignea From buj.joschko@freenet.de Tue Dec 7 06:30:05 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:30:50 +0100 Hello bulbplantfriends , Can anyone give me some advices what kind of Fungicid will used for Twinscaling of Galanthus ( or other bulbs ). Thanks for any comments With greetings from Germany Hans From Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Tue Dec 7 09:37:21 2004 Message-Id: <141.3a9688a1.2ee71a1b@aol.com> From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Subject: Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:37:15 EST In a message dated 12/7/04 3:30:30 AM, buj.joschko@freenet.de writes: << what kind of Fungicid will used for Twinscaling of Galanthus ( or other bulbs ) >> chlorothalonil Best wishes, Bill the Bulb Baron Bill the Bulb Baron.com William R.P. Welch P.O. Box 1736 (UPS: 264 West Carmel Valley Road) Carmel Valley, CA 93924-1736, USA Phone/fax (831) 659-3830 From mmattus@charter.net Tue Dec 7 16:39:54 2004 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:39:51 -0500 When I triple-scale (Tri scale) Nerine sarniensis, I use a sterilization procedure in which the bulb chips are submersed and agitated in a 0.525% solution of sodium hydrochlorite for one hour. I can't respond as to how successful this is on this years Nerine, but so far it looks good. This is the preferred method for many hard to micro-propagate amaryllids such as Crinum according to a research paper by the Department of Horticultural Sciences, Texas A & M from 1999. It stated that the most successful sterilization method was where the chips we're soaked in a hot (50 deg. C) tap water for 1h, then placed in flasks with a solution of 0.525% sodium hydrochlorite containing 0.1 Tween 20 and agitated for 1h, then rinsed three times with sterilized water under a laminar air-flow cabinet, all damaged tissue was trimmed and the chips dried. Of course, I am not a scientist, since a kitchen served as my lab. I ordered my lab material from an online laboratory supply house, as I used vermiculite in poly zip bags for my first batch, and a second in babyfood jar flasks containing a Murashige and Skoog agar solution. So far things are looking good, I have about 30% failure but hey, these are Nerine. I have no idea is these same methods would work with Galanthus. (Can you even chip galanthus?!) Best of luck Matt Mattus Worcester, Massachusetts USA On 12/7/04 6:30 AM, "Hans und Babs Joschko" wrote: > Hello bulbplantfriends , > Can anyone give me some advices what kind of Fungicid will used for > Twinscaling of Galanthus ( or other bulbs ). > Thanks for any comments > With greetings from Germany > Hans > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From brutem@mcn.org Tue Dec 7 18:41:45 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041207153604.0236e120@mail.mcn.org> From: Bob Rutemoeller Subject: Haemanthus--TOW Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:42:37 -0800 Cameron, Thanks for the interesting topic. I still remember the day you took us to the Kei River gorge and we had our lunch admiring the plants and birds across the river. Haemanthus are very interesting even to me. Thanks for taking the time for such a fine and complete introduction and providing so many fine pictures. Bob Bob Rutemoeller brutem@mcn.org From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Dec 8 02:22:09 2004 Message-Id: <004601c4dcf6$9eb73990$8305e150@John> From: Subject: Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 06:24:54 -0000 I use a product sold in the UK as Dithane 945. I believe the active ingredient is carbendazim, but I don't have any left to check. General practice is to soak the chips in this for 20-30 minutes: seems to do the trick! John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From buj.joschko@freenet.de Wed Dec 8 04:13:54 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: [pbs] Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:14:39 +0100 Hi Bulbplantfriends , Many thanks for all your answers to Bill , Stefan , Matt and John . To your answers : chlorothalonil - this is difficould for me to receive , it is in BRAVO 500 - only for farmers . sodium hydrochlorite - I dont know what this is - I have it not found in german internet pages .I will send you some informations to Twin Scaling . Dithane ( 945 ) I know this fungizid - the active is Mancoceb - not Carbendazim . I think I will try it with this - I have it . To Carbendazim : A other plantfriend give me this information also - I have found in the internet : This active is in :ROVRAL,HARVESAN,DEROSAL....and some others , this will also used by farmers. Greetings to all Hans From roberth6@mac.com Wed Dec 8 06:13:32 2004 Message-Id: <65B5E303-4908-11D9-9061-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Haemanthus--TOW Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:00:39 +1100 Hi all, Thanks to Cameron for the introduction to this genus which fascinates me. Here in Australia Haemanthus coccinea and albiflos are reasonably common. The former is an easy garden plant but I find the latter sensitive to frost in my climate. I am hoping some seed grown plants I have coming on will be more hardy. While I havent yet grow any to flowering size H carneus , humilis and montanus grow well for me under shadecloth. In contrast to its short growing season in its native enviroment I find H montanus is in leaf for about 10 months of the year , loosing leaves in early spring and reshooting in late spring. Haemanthus amarylliodes for me does not behave in line with its winter rainfall origin. Seeds (of var amarylloides) sown in August 2001 germinated well , the sulked through 2002 to return in early summer (December ) 2003 when leaves grew through to late autumn. Once again the first leaf shoot has appeared on the past few days. The problem is to water or not to water as it is now getting quite dry here, at least in pots. Any suggestions ? Cheers, Rob in Tasmania Zone 9 equivalent From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Dec 8 07:32:50 2004 Message-Id: <20041208123250.87D844C006@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 07:32:49 -0500 "sodium hydrochlorite - I don't know what this is - I have it not found" A much better known synonym for sodium hydrochlorite is sodium hypochlorite - the active principle of many bleaches. J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Wed Dec 8 09:24:50 2004 Message-Id: <000901c4dd32$3ca276c0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:28:49 -0500 A pinch of detergent and a mixture of about 5% Clorox will do fine Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com ----- Original Message ----- From jshields@indy.net Wed Dec 8 09:47:57 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041208093745.022269d8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 09:47:44 -0500 Hi All, I've been reading up on bulb cuttage lately, and these are a few of the points I've gleaned so far: Heat treating bulbs at ca. 50°C [ca. 122°F] is a general way to kill many bulb pathogens. A little too much heat, however, and you kill the bulbs too. Too little heat, and you don't kill the pathogens. Fungicides are of several types. There are surface-contact sporicides like Daconil, and there are systemic fungistats like thiophanate-methyl and many others. Surface sterilization with Clorox (5.25% sodium hypochlorite) diluted 1 to 20 in water is very effective; soak for about an hour. Less caustic sterilizing agents are the cationic detergents like Physan and Consan. It is a very good idea to sterilize your work space and your tools with at least a 10-minute soak in Physan 20 solution (1 tablespoon [15 mL] Physan 20 in 1 US gallon [3.785 L] of water). Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From buj.joschko@freenet.de Wed Dec 8 12:27:55 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: [pbs] Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 18:28:43 +0100 Hi all , thank you for all the good informations to this question . It is really nice from all over the world to get help ! Greetings Hans From eagle85@flash.net Wed Dec 8 14:44:57 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:42:06 -0800 J.E. ShieldsDoug Westfall jshields@indy.net11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Fungicides are of several types. There are surface-contact sporicides like > Daconil, and there are systemic fungistats like thiophanate-methyl and many > others. > > Surface sterilization with Clorox (5.25% sodium hypochlorite) diluted 1 to > 20 in water is very effective; soak for about an hour. Less caustic > sterilizing agents are the cationic detergents like Physan and Consan. It > is a very good idea to sterilize your work space and your tools with at > least a 10-minute soak in Physan 20 solution (1 tablespoon [15 mL] Physan > 20 in 1 US gallon [3.785 L] of water). > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana ^^^^^^^^ This is the process that I have used on Veltheimias at UCI arb. It works. Doug Westfall From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Dec 8 17:28:13 2004 Message-Id: <002701c4dd75$31f61720$faef403e@John> From: Subject: Twin Scaling of Galanthus Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:28:07 -0000 The point of using a fungicide is not merely to surface-sterilise the chips, but to provide protection through the long incubation period when the chips are vulnerable to fungus attack. For surface-sterilisation I flip the chips as they are cut into methylated spirits for a minute or two: then they go into a Dithane 945 solution. Unorthodox, but it works. Incidentally, the word cuttage has crept into use here. I hope I'm not the only one who finds this an ugly neologism, when chipping or (twin-) scaling are the accepted terms and less suggestive of the operating theatre. John Grimshaw John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin D. Preuss" To: ; "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Twin Scaling of Galanthus > A pinch of detergent and a mixture of about 5% Clorox will do fine > Kevin D. Preuss > www.Amaryllis-Plus.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From msittner@mcn.org Wed Dec 8 23:24:55 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041208191340.01eb86b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Haemanthus--TOW Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:20:06 -0800 Dear All, Are there any others in our group who grow Haemanthus? I hope you will share your experiences. My first experience was buying a plant at our local nursery. It is very unusual for there to be any kind of an unusual bulb for sale where I live so of course I was forced to buy it just to give them courage to offer others in the future. I didn't grow any Haemanthus at all at the time. It was a cross between H. albiflos and H. coccineus. When it bloomed I was thrilled. Unfortunately the new leaves began to have that virused look about them. I kept it on for another season and it bloomed again, but the leaves kept looking worse and worse so sadly I destroyed it. In August 2003 we observed Haemanthus albiflos that looked virused at Kirstenbosch (at least most of us thought it looked that way). There were a number of plants growing together and they didn't all look virused. Later in our trip we saw a population of Haemanthus in the wild with leaves that also looked virused. The plants were expanding nicely. Rod Saunders who was with us said you'd expect to find populations in the wild that would be virused. I am wondering how common virus is in Haemanthus. In my case and the two I saw in South Africa, it didn't seem to be killing the plants, but mainly affecting the appearance. Doug Westfall kindly gave me some seeds of Haemanthus albiflos after I told him of my interest. I was able to germinate about 1/2 of them and protected them for a year or so and eventually put them on a ledge in the shade and the birds finished off most of them along with two Scadoxus seedlings from two Scadoxus seeds he had also given me. I was so disappointed. It seemed my ability to grow Haemanthus was not very good. When we visited Rhoda and Cameron the first time, I got some more seeds of Haemanthus albiflos and I've done much better with those although they have never bloomed. They were looking super this year so I think it might be just a matter of time however. Someone (birds again probably) took a couple of big bites out of the leaves towards the end of summer making me wonder if it will ever be safe to grow them out of my greenhouse. I have two plants left from Doug's original gift and one of them doesn't look like any of my other Haemanthus albiflos so either it is something else or a hybrid. Most of the time it only has one leaf, but has two at the moment. I found it very helpful for Cameron to explain how usually plants have one or two leaves, but those that are evergreen can have more when the new leaves come out. When Jennifer Hildebrand organized a group order from Cameron and Rhoda in February 2003, I ordered Haemanthus coccineus. I was so impressed with the high quality of what I received that when Jen offered to do an order of the summer rainfall species too, I purchased H. montanus and H. deformis. All of these plants have done really well and I believe they have adjusted to my hemisphere. Being transplanted didn't seem to be a problem. Like Rob Hamilton my H. montanus once it got turned around has been green longer than you'd expect. It isn't dying back yet at all. None of them have bloomed however. Paul Tyerman' seeds of H. coccineus germinated really well, but only 3 of them are up again. I didn't look to see if there are others that are acting like some of Rob's Amaryllids and skipping the year, but I am hoping they are still there. I have seedlings of H. barkerae from Silverhill that are growing slowly, but may be suffering from what Jim Shields has described as premature transplanting. I also purchased H. paucifolius from Telos and it hasn't bloomed, but has just made an offset. Rounding out are two other species that I purchased from Gordon Summerfield early this year so they were also on the wrong hemisphere: H. canaliculatus and H. amarylloides ssp. toximontana. The former grew a little and then went dormant and I'm not very hopeful about it, but the latter is still green so perhaps it will survive. I started them both in big pots even though they looked a bit overwhelmed so I wouldn't have to transplant them. It was so helpful to have Cameron's introduction because I had no idea which were evergreen, which deciduous and which to keep dry when and which always to keep moist. Now I have written that information on tags and added them to the pots. I had a couple of seeds that were supposed to be H. sanguineus, but the leaves look like a Scadoxus so I think there may have been a mix-up. If any of you are still reading this to get to my questions, I am wondering if all of the species are equally unhappy with being transplanted as my experience seems mixed. Do some people grow these in the ground or mostly in containers? How big a container do they need? Gordon Summerfield suggested one to a container and in some of my others I had two in a container. Would it be better in line with what Jim S. is saying to keep the two together than split them out until they are bigger? Do most people find they have blooms once the plants get to be a certain size or do they skip a year or more? Do I need to provide extra heat to any of these in summer to make them feel at home? Rob, Gordon advised me to water the ones I got from him if they were green and only withhold water once the leaves started to die back. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Thu Dec 9 00:33:27 2004 Message-Id: <20041209053326.98427.qmail@web50105.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Clivias Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:33:26 -0800 (PST) I just want to let everyone know that there have been a few updates in the Clivia world. There is a description of a new species, C. robusta. I realized that I already had several of these in my collection already. WOW, am I lucky. It is like C. gardenii but nearly 4' tall. Now that is a big Clivia. Flowers are also twice the size. Then there is the recently described C. mirabilis. Kirstenbosch is releasing seedlings in the new year. This will be a step forward in the plant world. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From tglavich@sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 9 00:58:56 2004 Message-Id: <20041209055855.97881.qmail@web80810.mail.yahoo.com> From: Thomas Glavich Subject: Haemanthus--TOW Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:58:55 -0800 (PST) Mary Sue and all, I grow H. albiflos, and propagate some from seed every year. I find they do best in big pots. I'll start seedlings in 3/12 inch pots, with 20 or more seeds/pot. As with many seedlings, they seem to like company. They are very slow the first year or two, but then take off nicely, and do well in individual 3 1/2 inch pots for the third year. After that they go into gallon pots. Once the bulbs begin to offset they can go into even larger pots, 2 or 3 gallon pots work well, particularly the squatter types. This seems to encourage offsets. If the offsets are removed right after the main bulb flowers, and the offsets are two or three inches in diameter, they can be brought into flower the following autumn. On the other had, a big pot with 4 or 5 flowering stems is really spectacular. I grow my plants in partial shade, mostly under shade cloth, and water all year around. I fertilize fairly heavily from the spring through mid autumn. This improves not only growth rate, but flower quality as well. I grow them in a mix of commercial potting mix and pumice, about 50:50. In addition to the form most commonly seen, there is a form from Craddock (spelling?). This form has olive green, leathery leaves, looking quite different from the form normally seen in cultivation. It flowers about a month after the normal form. The flowers are identical to the normal form. I've grown H. deformis, using the same techniques as H. albiflos, and have one in flower now. (Better late than never.). In Southern California, there are several cultivars available. I have H. 'Sleeping Beauty', with the tantalizing label H. coccineus x H. 'Cocobola Pink'. I believe Bill Baker was the hybridizer. I can't find any other reference to 'Cocobola Pink'. It is evergreen with enormous leaves, six inches wide, and easily a foot long, and extremely glossy. It is evergreen, but semi-dormant in summer and grows well under the same conditions as H. albiflos. The flowers are a light pink, nice but not spectacular. I have quite a few other species, some of which I've flowered. H. coccineus is easy here as is H. sanquineneus and H. humilis. So far, none of the more exotic (and expensive) species or the cultivars have had flowers that surpass the more common forms of H. albiflos, coccineus and sanquineneus. In fact most of the expensive species are downright inferior as far as bloom quality goes. Last year I had a few problems with a 'virus'? showing up. Nearly all the bulbs that showed any signs of 'virus?' were growing adjacent to Hippeastrum. The Hippeastrum appear virus free, with no sign of leaf splotching or any other health issue. But I do wonder. The 'virus' generally showed just at the time of flowering, another oddity. Although there were other amaryllids near the Hippeastrum, none of these show any sign of virus. In any case, everything has been segrated and anything that I was suspicious of destroyed. I still wonder if I destroyed perfectly healthy bulbs. Tom Mary Sue Ittner wrote: Dear All, Are there any others in our group who grow Haemanthus? I hope you will share your experiences. My first experience was buying a plant at our local nursery. It is very unusual for there to be any kind of an unusual bulb for sale where I live so of course I was forced to buy it just to give them courage to offer others in the future. I didn't grow any Haemanthus at all at the time. It was a cross between H. albiflos and H. coccineus. When it bloomed I was thrilled. Unfortunately the new leaves began to have that virused look about them. I kept it on for another season and it bloomed again, but the leaves kept looking worse and worse so sadly I destroyed it. In August 2003 we observed Haemanthus albiflos that looked virused at Kirstenbosch (at least most of us thought it looked that way). There were a number of plants growing together and they didn't all look virused. Later in our trip we saw a population of Haemanthus in the wild with leaves that also looked virused. The plants were expanding nicely. Rod Saunders who was with us said you'd expect to find populations in the wild that would be virused. I am wondering how common virus is in Haemanthus. In my case and the two I saw in South Africa, it didn't seem to be killing the plants, but mainly affecting the appearance. Doug Westfall kindly gave me some seeds of Haemanthus albiflos after I told him of my interest. I was able to germinate about 1/2 of them and protected them for a year or so and eventually put them on a ledge in the shade and the birds finished off most of them along with two Scadoxus seedlings from two Scadoxus seeds he had also given me. I was so disappointed. It seemed my ability to grow Haemanthus was not very good. When we visited Rhoda and Cameron the first time, I got some more seeds of Haemanthus albiflos and I've done much better with those although they have never bloomed. They were looking super this year so I think it might be just a matter of time however. Someone (birds again probably) took a couple of big bites out of the leaves towards the end of summer making me wonder if it will ever be safe to grow them out of my greenhouse. I have two plants left from Doug's original gift and one of them doesn't look like any of my other Haemanthus albiflos so either it is something else or a hybrid. Most of the time it only has one leaf, but has two at the moment. I found it very helpful for Cameron to explain how usually plants have one or two leaves, but those that are evergreen can have more when the new leaves come out. When Jennifer Hildebrand organized a group order from Cameron and Rhoda in February 2003, I ordered Haemanthus coccineus. I was so impressed with the high quality of what I received that when Jen offered to do an order of the summer rainfall species too, I purchased H. montanus and H. deformis. All of these plants have done really well and I believe they have adjusted to my hemisphere. Being transplanted didn't seem to be a problem. Like Rob Hamilton my H. montanus once it got turned around has been green longer than you'd expect. It isn't dying back yet at all. None of them have bloomed however. Paul Tyerman' seeds of H. coccineus germinated really well, but only 3 of them are up again. I didn't look to see if there are others that are acting like some of Rob's Amaryllids and skipping the year, but I am hoping they are still there. I have seedlings of H. barkerae from Silverhill that are growing slowly, but may be suffering from what Jim Shields has described as premature transplanting. I also purchased H. paucifolius from Telos and it hasn't bloomed, but has just made an offset. Rounding out are two other species that I purchased from Gordon Summerfield early this year so they were also on the wrong hemisphere: H. canaliculatus and H. amarylloides ssp. toximontana. The former grew a little and then went dormant and I'm not very hopeful about it, but the latter is still green so perhaps it will survive. I started them both in big pots even though they looked a bit overwhelmed so I wouldn't have to transplant them. It was so helpful to have Cameron's introduction because I had no idea which were evergreen, which deciduous and which to keep dry when and which always to keep moist. Now I have written that information on tags and added them to the pots. I had a couple of seeds that were supposed to be H. sanguineus, but the leaves look like a Scadoxus so I think there may have been a mix-up. If any of you are still reading this to get to my questions, I am wondering if all of the species are equally unhappy with being transplanted as my experience seems mixed. Do some people grow these in the ground or mostly in containers? How big a container do they need? Gordon Summerfield suggested one to a container and in some of my others I had two in a container. Would it be better in line with what Jim S. is saying to keep the two together than split them out until they are bigger? Do most people find they have blooms once the plants get to be a certain size or do they skip a year or more? Do I need to provide extra heat to any of these in summer to make them feel at home? Rob, Gordon advised me to water the ones I got from him if they were green and only withhold water once the leaves started to die back. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From crinum@libero.it Thu Dec 9 07:24:14 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: Clivias Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:24:11 +0100 Dear, who and in which magazine was it published? Alberto Grossi Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:33:26 -0800 (PST) Subject : [pbs] Clivias > I just want to let everyone know that there have been > a few updates in the Clivia world. There is a > description of a new species, C. robusta. > I realized that I already had several of these in my > collection already. WOW, am I lucky. It is like C. > gardenii but nearly 4' tall. Now that is a big Clivia. > Flowers are also twice the size. > Then there is the recently described C. mirabilis. > Kirstenbosch is releasing seedlings in the new year. > This will be a step forward in the plant world. > > ===== > John Ingram in L.A., CA. > www.floralarchitecture.com check it out > Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com > 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Alberto Grossi Italy ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: 3 mesi gratis e navighi a 1.2 Mega, senza costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it From RichardPIV@aol.com Thu Dec 9 10:43:48 2004 Message-Id: <89.1bb515eb.2ee9cca7@aol.com> From: RichardPIV@aol.com Subject: Haemanthus--TOW Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:43:35 EST Dear All, In Strybing Arboretum in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park, there is a bed of H. coccineus (I believe that species), measuring a couple square feet, in the So. African plantings. When in bloom, they are a wonder to behold. So, Mary Sue, this group does not appear to need excessive heat. Richard No. California From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Thu Dec 9 10:57:17 2004 Message-Id: <20041209155717.40543.qmail@web50110.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Clivias Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:57:17 -0800 (PST) ALberto, Here is the link to the article: http://www.cliviasociety.org/forms/Botanical%20Journal%20of%20the%20Linnean%20Society_Clivia%20Pondoland.pdf "A new species of Clivia (Amayllidacea) endemic to the Pondoland Centre of Endemism, South Africa," Murray et al., Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 2004, 146, 369-374. (I haven't written a reference for quite some time so please forgive the above if there are mistakes.) The article was published in June. So, in botanical terms, that is pretty recent. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From mmattus@charter.net Thu Dec 9 10:58:44 2004 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Clivias Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:58:41 -0500 Any other comments on this "new" species of Clivia? A quick Google search did list this recently published research: Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, Volume 146 Issue 3 Page 369  - November 2004 "A new species of Clivia (Amaryllidaceae) endemic to the Pondoland Centre of Endemism, South Africa" I would be very much interested in hearing from others who may share their thoughts on this. Thanks Matt Mattus Worcester, MA USA Zone 5b > Dear, > who and in which magazine was it published? > Alberto Grossi > Italy > > ---------- Initial Header ----------- > >> From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Cc : > Date : Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:33:26 -0800 (PST) > Subject : [pbs] Clivias > >> I just want to let everyone know that there have been >> a few updates in the Clivia world. There is a >> description of a new species, C. robusta. >> I realized that I already had several of these in my >> collection already. WOW, am I lucky. It is like C. >> gardenii but nearly 4' tall. Now that is a big Clivia. >> Flowers are also twice the size. >> Then there is the recently described C. mirabilis. >> Kirstenbosch is releasing seedlings in the new year. >> This will be a step forward in the plant world. >> >> ===== >> John Ingram in L.A., CA. >> www.floralarchitecture.com check it out >> Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com >> 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > > Alberto Grossi > Italy > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Libero ADSL: 3 mesi gratis e navighi a 1.2 Mega, senza costi di attivazione. > Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Dec 9 12:05:48 2004 Message-Id: <90BEEDCE-4A04-11D9-B1D3-000D9356700E@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Clivias Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:05:45 -0800 Isn't this new species the same thing as what has been called the "Swamp Clivia" for the past few years? --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 On Dec 9, 2004, at 7:58 AM, Matt Mattus wrote: > Any other comments on this "new" species of Clivia? A quick Google > search > did list this recently published research: > > Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, Volume 146 Issue 3 Page 369  > - > November 2004 > > "A new species of Clivia (Amaryllidaceae) endemic to the Pondoland > Centre of > Endemism, South Africa" > > I would be very much interested in hearing from others who may share > their > thoughts on this. > > Thanks > > Matt Mattus > Worcester, MA > USA > Zone 5b > From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Thu Dec 9 12:21:52 2004 Message-Id: <20041209172152.3136.qmail@web50108.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Haemanthus Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:21:52 -0800 (PST) I have yet to read the posting over the last few days but I wanted to put in my two pence before the TOW is over. I only have a few species but they are really easy for me. The abliflos (my specimen is pathetic) has flowered once for me. I have ripped (literally) several offsets off and the plant never gets properly planted afterwards. it is laying on it's side, basal plate exposed and it still goes on. Everyone wants to by the poor thing (probably to save it from me ). But since it is still the only one I have, I keep it. Tom, thanks for the info on how you grow yours. I will plant mine now into a larger pot. Does anyone have experience with scaling or other mass propagation techniques other than seeds? DougW? I have been offered a ton of Haemanthus species from several sources in RSA. I have yet to decide which to import. I am leaning on just getting coccineus (flowering size) and that is all. The other species that I have are unifoliatus and montanus (both these came from Hugh Bollinger's collection). The coccineus that I have is a huge bulb that is splitting into 4 bulbs. That will make a few of my clients happy. There are 2 guys that drool over it everytime they come by and just keep asking to buy it. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From mmattus@charter.net Thu Dec 9 12:52:17 2004 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Clivias Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 12:52:13 -0500 Lee, I believe so. On 12/9/04 12:05 PM, "Lee Poulsen" wrote: > Isn't this new species the same thing as what has been called the > "Swamp Clivia" for the past few years? > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 > > On Dec 9, 2004, at 7:58 AM, Matt Mattus wrote: > >> Any other comments on this "new" species of Clivia? A quick Google >> search >> did list this recently published research: >> >> Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, Volume 146 Issue 3 Page 369  >> - >> November 2004 >> >> "A new species of Clivia (Amaryllidaceae) endemic to the Pondoland >> Centre of >> Endemism, South Africa" >> >> I would be very much interested in hearing from others who may share >> their >> thoughts on this. >> >> Thanks >> >> Matt Mattus >> Worcester, MA >> USA >> Zone 5b >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From crinum@libero.it Thu Dec 9 14:58:51 2004 Message-Id: <000c01c4de2a$add38610$64fea8c0@6b6625a8caff485> From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Herbert: Amaryllidaceae Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:07:15 +0100 Hi all, I ordered this book from this seller: https://www.koeltz.com/indexSecure.cfm?CFID=1444461&CFTOKEN=85612799 It just arrived in the morning and it is really fine. Ciao. Alberto Grossi Italy From soberano.sol@bol.com.br Thu Dec 9 17:31:55 2004 Message-Id: From: "soberano.sol" Subject: Hippeastrum petiolatum Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:36:08 -0200 Hi all, It would like contact with that it knows and preferential Hippeastrum_reticulatum cultivates. If somebody will have an indication of contact with Doug Westfall (e-mail) asks for the gentility to send me. Thanks, Tarcísio - South Brazil __________________________________________________________________________ Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela. AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis! http://antipopup.uol.com.br/ From msittner@mcn.org Fri Dec 10 02:00:38 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041209225858.01ce66d0@mail.mcn.org> From: "Cameron McMaster" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Haemanthus TOW Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:59:11 -0800 It has been very interesting reading of other's experiences with Haemanthus. Mary Sue's comprehensive commentary was excellent. Virus is common especially in H albiflos and we have had to destroy a number of plants - this is the only solution because they degenerate and die in few years, and one needs to eliminate the infected plants to stop possible spreading of the virus. I have seldom seen virus in other species. We grow all ours in pots with mature bulbs in 20cm diam pots (H humilis "Giant" needs much bigger pots). Mature bulbs of most species flower annually with us. How much to water is always a question - but a good rule is the one suggested - water when actively growing - and good drainage is essential. Winter rainfall species should be kept quite dry when dormant, but summer rainfall species should not be allowed to dry out completely. I was interested in Tom Glavich's observation of the different form of H albiflos from Cradock. This is a very dry region and our experience is that this form with the rounder, tougher, grey leaves is more prevalent in the dry regions and is much more tolerant of full sun. H albiflos, being so widespread and occurring in many different habitats, is variable (but not as variable as H humilis). Cameron McMaster From Steve.Burger@choa.org Fri Dec 10 03:08:37 2004 Message-Id: <0BAB7B6F7D5A53418C3B75FA01DE2BED05FE1C5F@CHOAMAIL4.choa.org> From: "Burger, Steve" Subject: Crocus laevigatus in wet/hot summer areas Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:00:30 -0500 Can anyone tell me about my chances of success with this plant here in the hot and wet SE USA. I have placed it in my "dry" garden with the best drainage I can provide it. It has already put out its first bloom for me. I just want to see it again next year bigger and better. I'm also considering planting much more of it in less ideal locations. Steve From ang.por@aliceposta.it Fri Dec 10 14:01:38 2004 Message-Id: <003701c4debd$2d437f80$8a163152@t7t2y7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Haemanthus TOW Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 14:35:55 +0100 I only grow albiflos and coccineus and this last is very easy for me. I grow them indifferently in the ground or in pots. I have at least 7 flowering size coccineus in a large terracotta bowl of 40cm across, but not so deep (azalea pot?). These were originally two bulbs, which I have never split so far. Now they are more then 10 and the largest ones flower every September. In the ground they grow even better, with huge leaves. To be honest, I don't look them so often, as they grow on their own here. Only, I have to water the ones in pot from time to time even in winter, because the mass of leaves is so wide to hide totally the pot, not allowing rain to pass. At the start of growing cycle I spread a good fertilizer 15-9-15 + minors and that's all. In a Mediterranean climate coccineus is virtually a care-free plant (I simply adore these !) and can lives eons in the ground. I saw in Sicily, in an old garden, a clump with 27 flowers and the plant was in place...maybe before Christ !! One time I asked on this forum if coccineus was self sterile or not and some though it was. But now I have found that it set seeds from a single clone, but not every year. best regards Angelo Porcelli south of Italy From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Fri Dec 10 08:31:26 2004 Message-Id: <003701c4debd$3a312120$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Crocus laevigatus in wet/hot summer areas Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:36:17 -0500 Steve, I grew mine in the sandhills of Florida, SW of Gainesville where freezing temps were not uncommon. 1994 they bloomed well, 1st yr. 2nd yr 2/10 flowered, 3rd 2/10 came up the next we left to move in town, but none even seemed to remain. I can see how one becomes smitten by these. Raise your beds if you do. Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burger, Steve" To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:00 AM Subject: [pbs] Crocus laevigatus in wet/hot summer areas > Can anyone tell me about my chances of success with this plant here in the hot and wet SE USA. I have placed it in my "dry" garden with the best drainage I can provide it. It has already put out its first bloom for me. I just want to see it again next year bigger and better. I'm also considering planting much more of it in less ideal locations. > > > Steve > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jshields@indy.net Fri Dec 10 09:13:26 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041210085426.00b08bb0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Haemanthus TOW Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:13:22 -0500 Hi all, In autumn 2002, I had three species of Haemanthus in bloom at the same time: HH. albiflos, coccineus, and humilis hirsutus (one umbel of each). I crossed coccineus and hirsutus both ways; I only got seeds on hirsutus. Today, there are a few seedlings alive and growing from the cross [humilis hirsutus X coccineus] (i.e., humilis hirsutus is the berry or seed parent, while coccineus is the pollen parent). The leaves are somewhat hairy, and they have narrow dark red margins. Since some of the coccineus I grow have red margins on their leaves, and none of the hirsutus do, I think these particular seedlings are probably true hybrids between the two species. I also crossed [albiflos X humilis hirsutus] at the same time, and it appears that some of these seedlings have rather hairier leaves than the pure albiflos seedlings usually have. These particular seedlings may be hybrids between albiflos and hirsutus. I'm not sure there will ever be a certainty about it until someone does some DNA work on these species. None of my hybrid Haemanthus seedlings is yet large enough that I would dare remove any tissue for DNA analysis in any case. Someday, I hope to know for certain! Jim Shields in dark, chilly, and gloomy central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Dec 10 12:35:15 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041210123453.02232450@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Rare Clivia Auction Ends in 24 Hours or less Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:35:12 -0500 Hi all, The auction of rare and valuable Clivia plants in support of the March, 2005, International Clivia Symposium and Show, will be closing in about 24 hours! See what is on offer and where the bidding stands at: http://www.northamericancliviasociety.org/Auctions.html There is still time to bid on some fabulous plants. For instance, 'Ramona' is one of the most sought-after and hard to get Clivia cultivars in the world. See the comments and picture of it in Harold Koopowitz's book "Clivias" (Timber Press, 2002). 'Anastasia' has crested petals -- ridges along the midline rising above each petal. A unique and unobtainable plants except here and now in the North American Clivia Society Auction! In a little over 24 hours, both these treasures will have been sold. They are not likely to be available again in the foreseeable future. Take a look at the extraordinary "fasciated" plant of 'Lemon Chiffon' -- a fan of 6 or 7 divisions. The there are the plants of James Comstock's 'Sabre Dance' (spider) and 'Octagon' (multipetal) cultivars. 'Free Love' is absolutely unique among "parti-colored" clivias. The flowers open yellow, almost white. Then they turn shades of pink and orange as they mature. Feast your eyes, and open your purses in support of the Third International Clivia Symposium and Show at the Huntington Galleries, Library, and Botanical Gardens, San Marino (Pasadena), California. Go to: http://www.northamericancliviasociety.org/Auctions.html Jim Shields ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. James E. Shields, president North American Clivia Society, Inc. P.O. Box 92 Tel. ++1-317-896-3925 Westfield, IN 46074 E-mail: USA http://www.northamericancliviasociety.org/index.html From totototo@pacificcoast.net Fri Dec 10 15:45:37 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Crocus laevigatus in wet/hot summer areas Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:51:58 -8 On 10 Dec 04 at 3:00, Burger, Steve wrote: > Can anyone tell me about my chances of success with this plant here > in the hot and wet SE USA. I have placed it in my "dry" garden with > the best drainage I can provide it. It has already put out its > first bloom for me. I just want to see it again next year bigger > and better. I'm also considering planting much more of it in less > ideal locations. Kevin Preuss suggested raised beds. In addition, you might want to try putting glass over the planting during the summer. This would keep the rain off and the extra heat trapped under the glass might dry out the soil. NB: *might*. Mind you, I'm only guessing! It may be that even with glass overhead, the overall humidity is just too high for the bulbs to survive. It's very difficult to grow plants under conditions radically different from those they are native to. C. laevigatus does okay here in Victoria because of our very dry summers, but I wouldn't say it's a star performer. It still needs siting with care so it gets adequate sun, esp. in winter. At my previous house it managed not too badly just under the dripline of a golden cedar with the lower limbs taken off. The position was to the SW of the tree and got what winter sun we had. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri Dec 10 20:21:26 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Crocus laevigatus in wet/hot summer areas Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 01:20:01 +0000 >From: "Burger, Steve" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: >Subject: [pbs] Crocus laevigatus in wet/hot summer areas >Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:00:30 -0500 > >Can anyone tell me about my chances of success with this plant here in the >hot and wet SE USA. I have placed it in my "dry" garden with the best >drainage I can provide it. It has already put out its first bloom for me. >I just want to see it again next year bigger and better. I'm also >considering planting much more of it in less ideal locations. > > >Steve Dear Steve: Here near Buenos Aires we are roughly zone 9b with year round rains (on the abundant side). I have grown for many years laevigatus, goulimyi, niveus, kotschyanus, hadriaticus, cartwrightianus, biflorus, and a number of others without lifting the comrs for the summer. They were repotted every late spring to clean old tiisues,roots, tunics,etc. without changing the mix only adding more perlite to compensate for any settling. Mix was 2/3 crushed rock in two sizes. They were in big pots plunged in a raised bed and had only morning sun in summer, hence my success : they were never extremely hot while wet.I am not implying that they are better without being dry in summer but in an extremely drained mix they are not likely to rot if given some protection from afternoon sun. All the best Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From robertwerra@sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 10 20:58:14 2004 Message-Id: <20041211015814.34587.qmail@web81002.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robert Werra Subject: TOW Haemanthus Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:58:14 -0800 (PST) Dear All, Haemanthus albiflos is one of the few bulbs I can't kill. I had 4 in a 18" by 6" pot 3 yrs. ago. Now I have 8 bulging the pot. They but forth white paint brushes every November for a month. I water them sparingly all year because they keep their leaves. I don't get around to fertilize them but they don't mind at all. They tolerate our frost to 26 degrees F. Yours, Bob Werra in Northern Calif. From Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Fri Dec 10 22:37:06 2004 Message-Id: <7b.3a405e19.2eebc55e@aol.com> From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Subject: need email addresss of Rhoda/Cameron McMaster Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:37:02 EST the one I have is africanbulbs@haznet.co.za and it keeps getting bounced back to me! Best wishes, Bill the Bulb Baron Bill the Bulb Baron.com William R.P. Welch P.O. Box 1736 (UPS: 264 West Carmel Valley Road) Carmel Valley, CA 93924-1736, USA Phone/fax (831) 659-3830 From msittner@mcn.org Sat Dec 11 11:16:37 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041211075732.01e6f9d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Crocus laevigatus Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 08:15:50 -0800 Hi all, I just added Crocus laevigatus 'Fontenayi' to the wiki since we didn't have this species pictured and it is being discussed and mine is blooming at the moment: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/FallBloomingCrocus In November I also added all the information that Jane provided about whether the fall blooming Crocus bloomed with leaves or not and pictures of some new ones blooming for me: C. goulimyi, C. pulchellus, and C. serontinus ssp. clusii Between rainstorms some of these are still blooming. Mary Sue From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 14:53:49 2004 Message-Id: <20041211195348.66622.qmail@web40521.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: TOW Haemanthus Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 11:53:48 -0800 (PST) I planted this same variety in the ground under a tree and they are doing very well and multiplying. I'm in southern Calif. inland. Ann Marie Robert Werra wrote:Dear All, Haemanthus albiflos is one of the few bulbs I can't kill. I had 4 in a 18" by 6" pot 3 yrs. ago. Now I have 8 bulging the pot. They but forth white paint brushes every November for a month. I water them sparingly all year because they keep their leaves. I don't get around to fertilize them but they don't mind at all. They tolerate our frost to 26 degrees F. Yours, Bob Werra in Northern Calif. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect belladonnas, oxalis, criniums, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Sat Dec 11 16:06:50 2004 Message-Id: <1CdERw-0zysTo0@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> From: Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de (Gerhard Stickroth) Subject: Scoliopus bigelovii Date: 11 Dec 2004 21:06 GMT Greetings: Can anyone provide me with a source for either seed or plants for Scoliopus bigelovii and S. hallii? I read on the forum that Ron Ratko had seed last year. Has anyone received his seed list for this year yet? Thank you. Gerhard Stickroth, Bavaria, Germany From robertwerra@sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 11 19:17:58 2004 Message-Id: <20041212001758.59088.qmail@web81010.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robert Werra Subject: TOW Haemanthus Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:17:58 -0800 (PST) Dear All, When and how should you take offsets of Haemanthus albiflos? How should you send them to a fellow bulb nut. Sincerely, Bob Werra No. Calif. From tglavich@sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 11 20:08:51 2004 Message-Id: <20041212010850.14772.qmail@web80806.mail.yahoo.com> From: Thomas Glavich Subject: TOW Haemanthus Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 17:08:50 -0800 (PST) The safest way is to take them out of the pot or ground as a group. Work the roots mostly free from the pup. Gently pull the pup off. If it doesn't come, try cutting part way on both sides of the pup. Try not to break the bulb or the pup. It should come free reasonably easy. To ship, clean the pup off with a hose. Let it dry. Leave the leaves on if they are short and you're not shipping far. If they are really long, trim them back and let the cuts dry. There is a lot of energy in a good size pup, so you don't have to worry. Wrap it in paper towels then newspaper. Ship it Priority mail or Fedex, or some other reasonably fast method. Its not a good idea to ship these to an area where there is extremely cold weather. A light frost won't hurt the bulb, but a hard freeze could get to it. I would wait until after the holidays to ship. Tom Robert Werra wrote: Dear All, When and how should you take offsets of Haemanthus albiflos? How should you send them to a fellow bulb nut. Sincerely, Bob Werra No. Calif. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Bonsaigai37@aol.com Sat Dec 11 23:15:30 2004 Message-Id: <1b9.89a1900.2eed1fd5@aol.com> From: Bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: pollen availablity? Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 23:15:17 EST Hello Everybody, I am looking for pollen from Hippeastrum reticulatum v. striatifolium ... sale, trade, or gift. Is there anyone with spare? Please reply privately. Thank you kindly, Michael Loos From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sun Dec 12 06:26:19 2004 Message-Id: <004001c4e03d$66f73380$5e602bd9@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Scoliopus bigelovii Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 11:26:19 -0000 > Can anyone provide me with a source for either seed or plants for Scoliopus > bigelovii and S. hallii? I read on the forum that Ron Ratko had seed last year. Has > anyone received his seed list for this year yet? Thank you. > > Gerhard Stickroth, Bavaria, Germany Should be no problem with plants in the UK, and many of the nurseries will export in the EU. Look on the RHS website using the Plant Finder, if you don't have the book available. http://www.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/plantfinder.asp Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Sun Dec 12 09:30:51 2004 Message-Id: <129.520fb806.2eedb018@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: TOW Haemanthus Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 09:30:48 EST In a message dated 12/11/2004 8:09:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, tglavich@sbcglobal.net writes: >Its not a good idea to ship these to an area where there is extremely cold weather. A light >frost won't hurt the bulb, but a hard freeze could get to it. Tender, frost sensitive plants can be shipped overnight during cold weather by using a styrofoam cooler with a chemical heat pack (iron oxidation type) inside. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA From msittner@mcn.org Sun Dec 12 11:52:00 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041212082211.01e6f9c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Scoliopus bigelovii Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:51:16 -0800 Dear Gerhard and Brian, I haven't received a seed list from Ron Ratko yet this year. Last year's list was emailed and it arrived on January 13th. There was not a listing for Scoliopus. I believe he talked about adding it one year, but generally it is felt to be short lived seed. Last year in January we talked about this plant and that the plant finder misspells Scoliopus bigelovii so in case Gerhard was not a list member then, you'll need to type in Scoliopus and then you will get them both. IPNI does not list Scoliopus bigelowii as a name for this plant. I potted my plants in bigger pots after communicating with Ian Young and watered them more regularly when they were dormant, so now I have to wait to see if they will be more vigorous this year and actually bloom. So far there is not sign of them breaking dormancy which often doesn't happen for me until January or even February. Of course I can always visit them in the wild even if mine do not bloom which is always a treat. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From crinum@libero.it Sun Dec 12 12:01:07 2004 Message-Id: <000701c4e06d$5d14fc50$64fea8c0@6b6625a8caff485> From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Scoliopus bigelovii Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:09:38 +0100 The Scottish Rock Garden Club have Scoliopus hallii in his seed list 2004/05. Alberto From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun Dec 12 15:52:03 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: TOW Haemanthus Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:51:07 +0000 >From: Robert Werra >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: [pbs] TOW Haemanthus Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:17:58 -0800 (PST) > >Dear All, When and how should you take offsets of >Haemanthus albiflos? How should you send them to a >fellow bulb nut. Sincerely, Bob Werra No. Calif. Dear Bob. Undoubtedly the best time is when the cycle starts, about flowering time in Fall. Superb results from packing the roots in moss, peat or even toilet paper in a plastic bag but with the foliage OUT of it (of the bag). All the best to you and Marlene Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Consigue aquí las mejores y mas recientes ofertas de trabajo en América Latina y USA: http://latam.msn.com/empleos/ From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sun Dec 12 16:55:04 2004 Message-Id: <00a101c4e095$380a6210$47659b51@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: theft of images Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:54:56 -0000 hi all I know bad publicity is good publicity but can you check this web site http://www.rvroger.co.uk for stolen images of yours from the wiki. I found one of mine on there just now after someone else highlighting he had found at least one of his there too. These are taken without permission or a "thankyou image courtesy of .." Mark N Ireland From eagle85@flash.net Sun Dec 12 19:30:47 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: theft of images Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:27:56 -0800 Mark SmythDoug Westfall mark@marksgardenplants.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA Mark, I don't see any of mine this time, but thanks for the "nptoce." Did your countryman/fellow bulb hobbyist ever decide the identity of his Scadoxus - cyrtanthus or cinnabarinus? I hope that you did see the pictures of my S. cinnabarinus blooms? Such "excitement" that blooming caused. No seeds though. Doug From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Mon Dec 13 05:25:21 2004 Message-Id: From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: theft of images Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 05:25:15 EST In a message dated 12/12/2004 4:55:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark@marksgardenplants.com writes: >check this web site http://www.rvroger.co.uk for stolen images of yours from the wiki Thanks. He lifted at least one of mine. I have sent a request to have it removed. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA From sheila1@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 13 09:57:19 2004 Message-Id: <002f01c4e124$0c082870$05c03bcb@Burrow> From: "sheilab" Subject: theft of images Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:57:19 +0800 Thanks, he has at least 1 of mine. No answer from him yet. Sheila Perth Western Australia From: "Mark Smyth" To: "pbs" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 5:54 AM Subject: [pbs] theft of images From haweha@hotmail.com Mon Dec 13 12:40:57 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans-Werner Hammen" Subject: theft of images Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:39:49 +0000 >From: "sheilab" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >Subject: Re: [pbs] theft of images >Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:57:19 +0800 > >Thanks, he has at least 1 of mine. >No answer from him yet. > >Sheila >Perth >Western Australia > > >From: "Mark Smyth" >To: "pbs" >Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 5:54 AM >Subject: [pbs] theft of images > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Hello I am a new member of the pbs mailing list and... This day I got this upper and a further lot of similar e mails. I regret I have no idea what the signification / meaning of these are. Where these images stolen from computers (hard disk?) I would be very interested to receive further explainations Thank you Kind regards and best wishes haweha From msittner@mcn.org Mon Dec 13 13:56:55 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041213103048.01ebc930@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: theft of images Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:53:12 -0800 Dear Hans-Werner or should we be saying haweha? Welcome to our pbs list. I hope you will introduce yourself and tell us where you are from and what you grow. Our list does not allow attachments, but we have created a wiki where members can upload their images so that anyone who wants to can go online to view them. Most of them can be seen here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PhotographsAndInformation The images remain the property of the photographer, but there is no way we can protect them from people saving them to their own computer. Occasionally someone who is surfing the net becomes aware that someone has copied the images and is now using them on a commercial site. I expect that many of our photographers would grant permission to use their images if they are credited as the photographer and asked first. Others might not, but the point is that permission is needed. This is the second site we have found where wiki pictures are illustrating bulbs someone is selling. The first one removed the pictures when we asked them to do so. In a quick look I had last night I found six wiki images, but suspect there are more. I like the idea of everyone looking for their own pictures since each of you will have a better idea of what you have posted and asking them to be removed, but I did ask for the group that all images copied from our pbs wiki be taken off their web site. I pointed out that anyone who sells bulbs would not want to offend the group of people most likely to buy them. I got a response this morning that a third party had delivered a group of images and that some of them were incorporated into the web site. He was embarrassed to get my letter and is sorry and has changed the site and is removing the images. Mary Sue From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Dec 13 14:14:07 2004 Message-Id: <000a01c4e147$ecc5cc50$4ee02052@CROCOSMIA> From: "David Fenwick Snr." Subject: theft of images Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:14:08 -0000 Dear All, Having been party to this also, and having complained last night I have just received the following e-mail from RV Roger. See below. Best Wishes, Dave Dear Sir, I am very embarrassed to receive this message, the image referred to was given to me as part of a large batch of images by a third party, some of which I incorporated into our bulb site. I am truly sorry if any offence has been given. The site has been changed already and images are being removed. I am well aware of how small the bulb community is and do not wish to stand out for the wrong reasons. Yours faithfully Ian Roger (RV Roger) David Fenwick The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens, Estover, Plymouth, Devon. England. PL6 8TW Tel: 44 (0)1752 301402 NCCPG National Plant Reference Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe, Tulbaghia, Eucomis with Galtonia, Freesia (Anomatheca Group) and Amaryllis Websites The African Garden www.theafricangarden.com Wildflowers of the Devon and Cornwall Peninsula www.aphotoflora.com Crocosmia Heritage www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.805 / Virus Database: 547 - Release Date: 03/12/2004 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Dec 13 14:24:18 2004 Message-Id: <00b101c4e149$55a53890$51559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: theft of images Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:24:14 -0000 hi all Great to see I was of help. Another place I have found my images was Ebay. A grower was selling hardy Geraniums and all had a photo of mine to go with the description. I also found my images on a perennials web site where someone had used something like 15 of my images to also sell hardy Geraniums. Those of you who take good shots should surf the net now and again looking for your images on other web sites. I usually choose a few plants and go surfing for an hour or so. Mark N Ireland From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Dec 13 14:40:17 2004 Message-Id: <00e301c4e14b$9084de00$51559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Scoliopus bigelovii Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:40:12 -0000 hi Gerhard I can collect seeds from both for you next year. Mark N Ireland Greetings: Can anyone provide me with a source for either seed or plants for Scoliopus bigelovii and S. hallii? I read on the forum that Ron Ratko had seed last year. Has anyone received his seed list for this year yet? Thank you. Gerhard Stickroth, Bavaria, Germany From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Dec 13 14:42:45 2004 Message-Id: <00e701c4e14b$e9c4c480$51559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Scoliopus bigelovii Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:42:42 -0000 hi all On the subject of Scoliopus can someone tell me the best place to plant S. hallii? I have to confess that for two years they have lived and flowered in a 1L pot thanks Mark N Ireland From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Mon Dec 13 17:05:19 2004 Message-Id: <1CdyJY-1f1q7M0@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> From: Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de (Gerhard Stickroth) Subject: Scoliopus bigelovii Date: 13 Dec 2004 22:04 GMT Hello Mark, Thank you for your generosity. It appears that seed must be fresh when sown, so receiving fresh seed directly from someone promises more success. I will get in touch with you personally. I would also like to thank all the people that responded to my request for help with scoliopus. I have not introduced myself yet, but will do so shortly. Gerhard from Bavaria "Mark Smyth" schrieb: > hi Gerhard > > I can collect seeds from both for you next year. > > Mark > N Ireland > > > Greetings: > > Can anyone provide me with a source for either seed or plants for Scoliopus > bigelovii and S. hallii? I read on the forum that Ron Ratko had seed last > year. Has anyone received his seed list for this year yet? Thank you. > > Gerhard Stickroth, Bavaria, Germany > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From haweha@hotmail.com Mon Dec 13 20:56:05 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans-Werner Hammen" Subject: Introduction to the members of the Pacific Bulb Society Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 01:55:26 +0000 Dear Mary Sue Thank you very much for welcoming me and for your explanations on the subject "theft of images" and hello everybody I am Hans-Werner Hammen. I am biologist and 47 years old. I am living in Duesseldorf, West Germany, climatic zone 7. My favourite subject is the plant family of Amaryllidaceae and in particular the gardeners amaryllis. As I am not having an own garden I grow my plants at home (under fluorescent and HP metal halide lamps). I am now having the last 8 years' experience in cultivating and propagating amaryllis from seeds and I am more hungry than ever of informations on this subject and in particular in strategies of hippeastrum breeding. I confess that I am putting rather big hope in this forum to meet seriously interested (amateur)breeders of amaryllis as I am. I can say clearly that I like very much to share my experiences with the members - for me, having "secrets" as an amateur is something like a funny imagination. On the other side, the actual subject of stolen images makes me reflect a little bit on this view. But... for the last my heart is full with amaryllis and with details about it, respectively, and therefore I have certainly much interesting things to tell about the subject. Actually my target of interest is breeding with species and cultivars within the Omphalissa group of Hippeastrum. I am in this moment waiting for the results of crossbreedings of H. alicum v.robustum, H.papilio, H.cyb.Hybrid "Chico" with each other and as far as possible with tetraploid hybrids, too. In general I am now following the "trend" in hippeastrum breeding and raising mainly diploid (and triploid) seedlings. Kindest regards and best wishes to all members of the Pacific Bulb Society ....and adding my personal wish of fruitful information exchange Hans-Werner From mmattus@charter.net Mon Dec 13 22:32:01 2004 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Cyrtanthus elatus Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:31:58 -0500 Hi all I have a question for a few of you who attended the IBS Bulb Symposium that was held a few years ago at the Huntington Botanical Garden in Pasadena, CA. (I know that Jim, Shields and Lee Poulson, John Ingram, and maybe even you May Sue we're there). Maybe you can help me. At the bulb auction, I bid on a number of seedling bulbs of Cyrtanthus, most we're labled Cyrtanthus elatus hybrids. A couple we're labled Cyrtanthus elatus x eucallis and C. elatus x. purpurea. Anyway, I have two large plants that are labled C. elatus Hybrid, and both are starting to bloom. At first, I was thrilled because I expected them to look like C. elatus but instead, the blossoms are dangling,bright red, and really quite stunning, but they don't look like any cyrtanthus that I know. I never have grown C elatus, so maybe these are infact elatus, but I can't find any picture on line that looks like them. May Sue, you may have to help me post the pictures on the Wiki, but I lost the sheet that you sent me a couple years ago on how to do it, perhaps you could send it again. My real question is if anyone else purchased any of these seedlings three years ago? I would like to identify these beauties. Many thanks Matt On 12/13/04 8:55 PM, "Hans-Werner Hammen" wrote: > > Dear Mary Sue > > Thank you very much for welcoming me and for your explanations on the > subject "theft of images" > > > and hello everybody > > I am Hans-Werner Hammen. I am biologist and 47 years old. I am living in > Duesseldorf, West Germany, climatic zone 7. > My favourite subject is the plant family of Amaryllidaceae and in particular > the gardeners amaryllis. As I am not having an own garden I grow my plants > at home (under fluorescent and HP metal halide lamps). I am now having the > last 8 years' experience in cultivating and propagating amaryllis from seeds > and I am more hungry than ever of informations on this subject and in > particular in strategies of hippeastrum breeding. > I confess that I am putting rather big hope in this forum to meet seriously > interested (amateur)breeders of amaryllis as I am. I can say clearly that I > like very much to share my experiences with the members - for me, having > "secrets" as an amateur is something like a funny imagination. On the other > side, the actual subject of stolen images makes me reflect a little bit on > this view. But... for the last my heart is full with amaryllis and with > details about it, respectively, and therefore I have certainly much > interesting things to tell about the subject. > Actually my target of interest is breeding with species and cultivars within > the Omphalissa group of Hippeastrum. I am in this moment waiting for the > results of crossbreedings of H. alicum v.robustum, H.papilio, H.cyb.Hybrid > "Chico" with each other and as far as possible with tetraploid hybrids, too. > In general I am now following the "trend" in hippeastrum breeding and > raising mainly diploid (and triploid) seedlings. > > Kindest regards and best wishes to all members of the Pacific Bulb Society > ....and adding my personal wish of fruitful information exchange > > Hans-Werner > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From robertwerra@sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 13 23:02:41 2004 Message-Id: <20041214040240.36355.qmail@web81010.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robert Werra Subject: TOW Haemanthus Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:02:40 -0800 (PST) Dear Tom, Thank you for your Haemanthus splitting advice. A PBS member in Boston wants to try Haemanthus albiflos. Sincerely, Bob Werra --- Thomas Glavich wrote: > The safest way is to take them out of the pot or > ground as a group. Work the roots mostly free from > the pup. Gently pull the pup off. If it doesn't > come, try cutting part way on both sides of the pup. > Try not to break the bulb or the pup. It should > come free reasonably easy. > > To ship, clean the pup off with a hose. Let it > dry. Leave the leaves on if they are short and > you're not shipping far. If they are really long, > trim them back and let the cuts dry. There is a lot > of energy in a good size pup, so you don't have to > worry. > > Wrap it in paper towels then newspaper. Ship it > Priority mail or Fedex, or some other reasonably > fast method. Its not a good idea to ship these to > an area where there is extremely cold weather. A > light frost won't hurt the bulb, but a hard freeze > could get to it. > > I would wait until after the holidays to ship. > > Tom > > Robert Werra wrote: > Dear All, When and how should you take offsets of > Haemanthus albiflos? How should you send them to a > fellow bulb nut. Sincerely, Bob Werra No. Calif. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From msittner@mcn.org Mon Dec 13 23:34:00 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041213195838.01eb45d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Cyrtanthus elatus Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:33:15 -0800 Hi Matt, I was at the Symposium, but was not a major bidder. Robert Parker, on the other hand, was helping out IBS quite a lot and I expect he purchased a lot of the Cyrtanthus, one of his favorites. So hopefully he will respond to your question (in text). Did you look at Bill Dijk's pictures on the wiki? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CyrtanthusHybrids He has added a lot of Cyrtanthus hybrid pictures. Many of them are so striking. Lee also has a picture of a hybrid C. elatus on that page that I keep hoping to rename once someone agrees it is an elatus hybrid. Does yours look like his? He didn't say where he got it. I was thinking it is a strange (but very satisfying) time of year to be in bloom, but I have two flowering stalks about to open on a Cyrtanthus mackenii in my greenhouse that has never bloomed this time of year before. We have a lot of instructions on the wiki about how to use it: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/UsingThisWiki is a good place to start. But I will also send you some abbreviated instructions again so you can add your picture for everyone to see. Mary Sue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Dec 14 18:12:14 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041214151026.01065e00@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Leucojum vernum cultivar Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:12:11 -0800 A correspondent in the UK, Ena Gatenby, wrote to me asking if I knew a source of a particular cultivar, Leucojum vernum 'Gertrude Wister'. Ena is building up a specialized collection of Leucojum. I've never encountered that cultivar in the USA. Does anyone know of a source for it? You can write directly to her at or you can discuss the plant here on the list and I'll forward the information to her. Thanks, Jane McGary From ConroeJoe@aol.com Tue Dec 14 18:50:01 2004 Message-Id: <64.4a7c458f.2ef0d619@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Lachenalia Seedling Report, and Queries Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:49:45 EST Hi, We only get 6 or 10 nights each year when temperatures fall below 32 F (zero C). I think that, in time, my Lachenalia will be able to take most of these nights in stride, especially because some are obviously hardy to 18-20 F or so, and some are reported to take even colder temperatures. Nonetheless, some (most ?) are clearly only hardy to 28 F or so. I guess a lot depends upon where the seed came from; high, middle, or low elevations--as well as cultural particulars. So, I'm babying my seedling Lachenalia plants from last winter. They are small and happy in the fall weather, but I don't want to give them an excuse to slow down. I brought the pots in last night (about 30 F), and have done so again for tonight (predicted to be about 25 F, ca. -4 C). I plan to bring them in any night that temperatures are predicted to go below 32 F. Eventually, my goal is to have pot plants will be kept outdoors on a sunny porch essentially all winter (all but the coldest days). I think adult plants, not in bloom, will take mid-20s easily (we'll find out). I have 4 or 5 Lachenalia species that germinated easily, about last February. This year I have more species that I hope to get into the seed pots ASAP, in an effort to provide them with a longer growing season than last year. Question: Can anyone recommend an all around soil mix for Lachenalia seedlings? I plan to leave them in the mix for 2-3 years-until they are potted up into 6 to 10-inch clay pots. Last year I used a mix that was 50% coarse sand and 50% compost and I wonder if this is OK. Question: I took photos of the seedlings (tiny leaves ½ or 1 inch tall), but don't know if I'll get around to posting them. If anyone out there wants the raw photos, and is willing to post them, please let me know (Jay ?). Cordially, Conroe Joe Sunny days, nights with light frost, warming expected in a day or two From totototo@pacificcoast.net Tue Dec 14 19:08:07 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: theft of images Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:13:42 -8 On 13 Dec 04 at 10:53, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Our list does not allow attachments, but we have created a wiki > where members can upload their images so that anyone who wants to > can go online to view them... > The images remain the property of the photographer, but there is no > way we can protect them from people saving them to their own > computer. Occasionally someone who is surfing the net becomes aware > that someone has copied the images and is now using them on a > commercial site. You can watermark the images so that it is impossible to eradicate a statement of ownership. I've experimented with PaintShopPro and found that the following technique works fairly well. Create a new black and white image 1.5 times bigger than the image you want to protect. Color the entire image black. Use the text tool to place your warning text, in white, on the image. Repeat until the image is filled with lines of warning text. I found that Microsoft Sans Serif worked pretty well as a typeface for this purpose. Rotate this image 45 degrees counterclockwise, then crop it to the size of the image you want to protect. Assign your warning-text image to the to-be-protected image as a mask. Adjust the gamma to, say, 2.2. Because of the mask, the gamma will only be adjusted where the white lettering exists on the mask. This means the warning text becomes visible across the protected image in the form of slight variations in brightness and contrast. By astute choice of typeface, size, and gamma correction, you can watermark your pictures without obscuring the details of the image. I doubt anyone would be able to easily undo such watermarking! A suitable warning text might be "for exclusive use on the pbs wiki/copyright 2005 John Doe, Podunk, Indiana/do not reproduce" but you are free to write anything you want. If someone asks permission and you decide to grant it, use a fresh copy of the picture and watermark it referring to the site for which you have given permission to use it on. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From JFlintoff@aol.com Tue Dec 14 19:21:16 2004 Message-Id: <21BB6333.52B478A1.022C994E@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: lEUCOJUM VERNUM CULTIVAR Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:21:06 -0500 Jane The cv 'Gertrude Wister' occurred in the garden of the eponymous lady and is a double-flowered form. GW was a noted plantsman and wife of the famed John C Wister of Swarthmore College and its associated arboretum. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,WA,USA Zone 8 From john@johnlonsdale.net Tue Dec 14 19:50:35 2004 Message-Id: <20041215005035.A19BF4C005@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Leucojum VERNUM CULTIVAR Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:50:32 -0500 That's interesting! Earlier this year I was given a few bulbs, sans name, of a double Leucojum vernum which is in a well-known private garden in Swarthmore. I wonder if they are one and the same. The same friend gave me a few bulbs of a newly named snowdrop which is in flower now, called Potter's Prelude. It seems to be of the elwesii flavor, but extremely early for that group here. J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b Jane The cv 'Gertrude Wister' occurred in the garden of the eponymous lady and is a double-flowered form. GW was a noted plantsman and wife of the famed John C Wister of Swarthmore College and its associated arboretum. From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Dec 15 03:21:40 2004 Message-Id: <003201c4e27f$19480210$e6e9403e@John> From: Subject: LEUCOJUM VERNUM CULTIVAR Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 05:56:20 -0000 I think it's safer to say that Leucojum vernum 'Gertrude Wister' is multi-segmented, not double. It has extra segments inserted around the ovary and as I understand it, occasionally has 'fused' flowers so that there is a cleft through the united ovary, plus two sets of reproductive parts (rather like Galanthus 'Mrs Thompson'). It was first written up in the RHS Journal when it was a small, A5-sized volume, but as my copies are elsewhere I can't immediately look it up. In snowdrops there is a precise terminology to describe flower form, and this should be extended to Leucojum and Acis as more variation is discovered in those genera. 'Double' implies extra segments in the centre of the flower, creating a rosette. No doubles are yet known in Leucojum, although multi-segmented flowers are not uncommon. One sometimes hears the word double referring to two flowers on a scape, but this condition should be known as 'twin-flowered.' And for John Lonsdale, yes, bulbs from that source are 'Gertrude Wister'. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM Subject: [pbs] lEUCOJUM VERNUM CULTIVAR > Jane > > The cv 'Gertrude Wister' occurred in the garden of the eponymous lady and is a double-flowered form. GW was a noted plantsman and wife of the famed John C Wister of Swarthmore College and its associated arboretum. > > Jerry John Flintoff From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 20:45:03 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041215093127.010fb300@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: LEUCOJUM VERNUM CULTIVAR Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:41:09 -0800 Thanks to Jerry, John L., and John. G. for the excellent information on 'Gertrude Wister', which I've forwarded to the original inquirer. If I could grow L. vernum effectively, I'd be campaigning for a bulb of this interesting plant. However, both L. vernum and L. aestivum fail to flourish here and rarely bloom, probably because the soil (acidic, fast-drying) is wrong for them. In contrast, L. autumnale and the purportedly tender L. nicaeense do well in the open rock garden, though I don't depend on their surviving there indefinitely, once they encounter winter temperatures more severe than average. The larger species, which come from wet meadows, grow well at lower elevations near my home, where the soil tends to be dense and silty rather than the rocky subalpine forest stuff I have here; this suggests to me that it's the drainage, not the acidity, that is inhospitable to these plants. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From totototo@pacificcoast.net Wed Dec 15 19:20:19 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Leucojum vernum cultivar Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:26:35 -8 On 14 Dec 04 at 15:12, Jane McGary wrote: > A correspondent in the UK... wrote to me asking if... > You can write directly to her at... or you can discuss the plant > here on the list and I'll forward the information to her. It would be better, much, much better, both for the pbslist and for those non-subscribers who have relevant questions, if they were encouraged to sign up, ask their questions themselves, and take full part in the list activities. I am reminded of those blithe souls who sail into a newsgroup, ask their question, and depart with a breezy "please send me a reply by email, I'm too busy to watch the group for replies." This usually produces a spate of tart in-group replies that say "Here's your answer, I hope you're reading because I'm not emailing it. If this newsgroup is good enough to ask your question in, it's good enough to watch for answers." Of course, the present situation isn't the same, but as I say, it has a more than passing similarity. Mutatis mutandis, the same reply might be in order. All this IMHO, of course. I kowtow in the direction of Our Maximal Leadrix, Mme. Ittner, with all due respect and acknowledgment of Her Supreme Authority. [For those puzzled by the previous paragraph, I suggest a quick course of study on "The Use of Capitalization for Humorous Purposes on the Internet."] -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Dec 15 23:13:00 2004 Message-Id: <20041216041300.8A0D74C006@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: LEUCOJUM VERNUM CULTIVAR Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:12:59 -0500 Jane wrote " If I could grow L. vernum effectively, I'd be campaigning for a bulb of this interesting plant. However, both L. vernum and L. aestivum fail to flourish here and rarely bloom, probably because the soil (acidic, fast-drying) is wrong for them. In contrast, L. autumnale and the purportedly tender L. nicaeense do well in the open rock garden, though I don't depend on their surviving there indefinitely, once they encounter winter temperatures more severe than average. The larger species, which come from wet meadows, grow well at lower elevations near my home, where the soil tends to be dense and silty rather than the rocky subalpine forest stuff I have here; this suggests to me that it's the drainage, not the acidity, that is inhospitable to these plants." I think you are right on all counts. L. vernum fades away here in the spots that get too dry too regularly but does fine in the spots that stay moister, naturally or artificially. All sites are acid. Another Leucojum that has surprised me outside is L. tingitanum. This has been in the sandy bed in front of the house for the past three years, though I don't remember putting it there. It has flowered better as time has gone by and even though that is the most sheltered spot in the garden it has still seen temps between 5 and 10F, and been covered in deep snow many times. That spot also gets morning sun so the leaves will get lots of freeze/thaw cycles. It is in the same spot as Ipheions Alberto Castillo, Rolf Fiedler and Charlotte Bishop. J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From mmattus@charter.net Thu Dec 16 01:53:34 2004 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Cyrtanthus elatus Hybrid on Wiki Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:53:32 -0500 Hi All Well, my first time posting on the Wiki pages, I think it went well, although it took me a bit of the evening to iron things out! I'm a Mac guy, so this was a little new for me. Regardless, I posted three new pictures of a Cyrtanthus elatus hybrid that I acquired from an IBS auction a few years ago. Two of these plants are currently blooming in the greenhouse this December for the first time. Check the first on out at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CyrtanthusHybrids Many thanks, Matt Matt Mattus Worcester, Massachusetts USA Zone 5b Temperature low today: 16 deg. F From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Dec 16 14:20:23 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20041216141938.00a83c40@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: LEUCOJUM VERNUM CULTIVAR Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:19:38 -0500 At 11:12 PM 12/15/2004 -0500, John Lonsdale wrote: > L. vernum fades away here in the spots >that get too dry too regularly but does fine in the spots that stay moister, >naturally or artificially. All sites are acid. My experience here has been similar. Although Leucojum vernum has been in this garden for well over twenty years, I have little to show for it. The plants bloom yearly and set seed, but they don't multiply vegetatively much. The seed germinates freely, and the seedlings grow slowly. Also, I don't know another bulbous plant which is so touchy about being dried when dug. Commercial stock that I've had is generally mostly dead on arrival. Years ago I worked in a retail nursery for a year; when the autumn bulbs arrived, I commandeered the box of 50 Leucojum vernum for myself. I stopped what I was doing, soaked the bulbs immediately, and planted them in the garden later that day. They looked fine. Six or so out of fifty grew. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Leucojum vernum blooms not in the spring but in late winter, as L. aestivum blooms not in summer but in spring, and L. autumnale blooms not in autumn but in summer. From msittner@mcn.org Thu Dec 16 20:13:26 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041216165815.01ecac50@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Leucojum aestivum Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:12:41 -0800 Dear Jane, I grow this plant in the ground in Northern California and my soil is acid. It is growing in a site that is not watered in summer unless there are some drops from overflow from plants that I water in containers in my lath area that are near. It has been growing and blooming in the same spot for almost 15 years now. What changes every year is when it blooms and when it breaks dormancy. I looked just now and many are just now coming up. Some years they are already blooming in December in spite of being "spring" snowflakes. I thought you and I got about the same amount of rain so don't understand what the problem is. Most of my soil is decomposed sandstone, but originally some top soil was added to places that I'd best describe as silt. The deer don't like it and it is long blooming so I find it a very satisfactory plant. On the other hand, Acis (Leucojum) autumnale never returned when I planted it out. It does finein a container. But I give it some summer water and expect it was too dry for it in the ground. Mary Sue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Dec 16 20:41:37 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041216173825.010b8b08@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Leucojum aestivum Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:41:31 -0800 Mary Sue wrote, >I grow this plant [Leucojum vernum] in the ground in Northern California >and my soil is acid. It is growing in a site that is not watered in summer >unless there are some drops from overflow from plants that I water in >containers in my lath area that are near. ... On the other hand, Acis >(Leucojum) autumnale never returned when I planted it out. It does finein >a container. But I give it some summer water and expect it was too dry for >it in the ground. I'll bet the L. vernum is getting some overflow. Acis autumnalis, however, does fine here in utterly dry summer conditions, since I weed it out of my bulb frames all the time and throw it hither and yon, where it takes root and grows if the bulbs happen to get covered up with just about anything. Strange indeed. I think I get more rain in winter than Mary Sue does, and it's quite a bit colder too. Jane McGary' Northwestern Oregon From msittner@mcn.org Thu Dec 16 20:52:44 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041216174826.00dc3750@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Leucojum aestivum Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:51:55 -0800 Jane, Thanks for correcting the end of the name of that Acis species. I didn't look it up for accuracy and unlike you and Jim McKenney don't have the language background to know which endings need to be changed. I've never tried L. vernum. It was L. aestivum that is successful with me. Maybe Acis autumnalis doesn't like redwood roots since it was in the shade of my trees I planted it? Mary Sue From jglatt@ptd.net Fri Dec 17 13:45:22 2004 Message-Id: <000001c4e468$e480e240$ca9a32d1@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Leucojum vernum in CT and NJ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:31:26 -0500 I got my start of Leucojum vernum from a friend in Wilton CT when we lived there. Strolling into her garden to see her "snowdrops" I was delighted to see that they were snowflakes, planted by some previous owner. We dug some then and there, in bloom, and I replanted them within hours. They did just fine in my oak woodland. I took some to NJ and planted them on the moderately high bank - meter or so above the bed of the drainage creek and they have continued to thrive. The soil is acid, and clay loam. I think moisture makes the difference. These bulbs do not appear to re-seed but over the last nine years they are bulking up through offsets. They bloom in spring about the same time as Galanthus nivalis, the green-tipped white bells making a nice partner for Helleborus niger. Judy Glattstein in New Jersey, where winter's iron grip and 16° Fahrenheit mornings have slammed the door on autumn. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Dec 17 14:49:28 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Leucojum aestivum and vernum Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:47:41 -0600 Dear All; I grow both of the above and the yellow tipped L. v. carpaticum. L. aestivum (which always blooms prior to vernum and this never made sense) increases in clump size and self sews with some abandon. Seems like every flower stalk make hugs grape-size clusters of fruits, these fall a foot or so away and a new clump is there next spring. cv 'Gravetye Giant' is not nearly so vigorous, but does fine. L. vernum and var carpaticum is much slow than L. aestivum and I do not recall any self sewing and few seeds. It is not dwindling though so I shouldn't complain. All are perfectly hardy which I can't say for any of the other species I have tried here. happy Holidays Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Dec 17 14:55:56 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041217144112.022b9c00@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Crocus sativus Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:55:49 -0500 Hi all, Can anyone tell me where to find corms of Crocus sativus? I'm trying to find some that have not yet been planted for a friend. Thanks, Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From dejager@bulbargence.com Fri Dec 17 16:30:16 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: [IBSMEMBERS] Crocus sativus Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:31:01 +0100 Dear Jim, The latest date that you can plant this crocus (to have some reasonable results) is mid september. Theyflower theend of Octobre-early November and are now in full leaves until early May. Tell your friend to wait until next June. Kind regards Lauw 17/12/04 20:57, J.E. Shields à jshields@indy.net a écrit : > Can anyone tell me where to find corms of Crocus sativus? I'm trying to > find some that have not yet been planted for a friend. Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From cyrtanthus@blueyonder.co.uk Fri Dec 17 16:50:16 2004 Message-Id: <009101c4e482$c9552b60$4a9130d5@cyrtanthus> From: "Dr Paul Chapman" Subject: Cyrtanthus elatus Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 21:52:03 -0000 Matt and all, I suspect that what you have got is a Cyrtanthus elatus x falcatus, or C. falcatus x elatus hybrid. I purchased one of these from the Huntington symposium, but it has not yet reached flowering size. However, I do have 8 of these hybrids which I acquired from Frank Holford about 5 or 6 years ago. For me in the UK they always flower in the first 2 weeks of November - I have tried all sorts of tricks to try and delay the flowering until Christmas, but with no success - I think they would make a beautiful pot plant for Christmas. The ones I own have inherited the evergreen leaves from C. elatus, together with the vermilion flower colour. From C. falcatus (which is winter dormant here in zone 9a, and normally flowers before the leaves in early March) they have inherited the pendant flowers which, in the cultivars I have got, are about 8cm (3") long, and open out to about 3cm (1") across the face of the flower. There are 8-10 flowers per scape. Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, they all seem to be infertile. Paul Dr Paul Chapman, Wallington, Surrey, UK South London commuter belt suburbia - zone 9a, where the first snowdrops (Galanthus "Yvonne Hay") will be in flower just in time for Christmas mailto:cyrtanthus@blueyonder.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Mattus" > > At the bulb auction, I bid on a number of seedling bulbs of Cyrtanthus, most > we're labled Cyrtanthus elatus hybrids. > At first, I was thrilled because I expected them to look like C. elatus but > instead, the blossoms are dangling,bright red, and really quite stunning, From jshields@indy.net Fri Dec 17 17:19:03 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041217171251.02362a88@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Cyrtanthus elatus Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:19:00 -0500 Hi Paul, Matt and all, Those are fine looking flowers, Matt! I wish I had bought more plants at that symposium myself. The bulbs I have of Cyrtanthus [montanus X elatus] have almost always been infertile too. I got luck one single time, pollinating one bulb's flowers onto the flowers of another of the bulbs that was in bloom at the same time and the reverse. One of the two plants set two pods, and I got maybe 6 seeds. The last time I checked, the pot of those seedlings had 4 nice bulbs in it, ca. 1 inch in diameter. I'm very curious to see what their eventual flowers will look like, and to see if these F2 plants are more fertile than their parents. In a few more years..... Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana At 09:52 PM 12/17/2004 +0000, Paul wrote: >Matt and all, > >I suspect that what you have got is a Cyrtanthus elatus x falcatus, or C. >falcatus x elatus hybrid. > >............ There are 8-10 flowers per scape. Unfortunately, despite my best >efforts, they all seem to be infertile. > >Paul > >Dr Paul Chapman, Wallington, Surrey, UK ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From dells@voicenet.com Fri Dec 17 19:11:48 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 82 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:10:56 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by people from all over the world, to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 82" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Nancy Gilbert: 1. Seed of Lilium humboldtii ssp humboldtii, from the wild in Grass Valley, CA, 2700' elevation. From Pat Colville: 2. Seed of Amaryllis belladonna from Les Hannibal hybrids From Tom Wells: 3. Corms of Crocosmia sp? See a photo of them on the wiki From Alberto Grossi: 4. Seed of Scadoxus puniceus. From Mark Mazer: Small tubers: 5. Arisaema consanguineum, silver center 6. Arisaema consanguineum 7. Arisaema fargesii 8. Arisaema rhombiforme Thank you, Nancy, Pat, Tom, Alberto, and Mark !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Sat Dec 18 06:50:27 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Additiional Information about Pacific BX 82 Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 06:49:41 -0500 Dear All, I neglected to mention the following info about item #2, Amaryllis belladonna: "Very late blooming, white with pink edge, huge number of blooms, very vigorous plants." Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From msittner@mcn.org Sat Dec 18 10:58:50 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041218075441.01ecf6f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Hippeastrum photo Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 07:58:00 -0800 Dear All, Jaime Vande has uploaded two nice pictures of a Hippeastrum cybister hybrid he purchased as a cut flower under the name 'Toscana'. For some reason the message didn't go through which in this case was good because it has allowed me to move them into the Hippeastrum folder and announce them by the wiki page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HippeastrumHybrids Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Sat Dec 18 11:13:13 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041218075901.01ece1b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Phycella not Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 08:12:27 -0800 Dear All, Every day I look at what has been added to the wiki and make the appropriate changes when needed. This morning there was a change on the a that didn't make any sense (spaces were added), so I checked out the history and saw that someone had started to write a note on this page and then changed their mind and edited it again to take the note off and in doing so had added spaces. The note said that Lee's pictures were not of Phycella, that Phycella could not be imported from the Netherlands into the USA. The writer suspected they were Cyrtanthus which was one of Lee's suspicions. I looked through my messages to see if I could figure out what we decided when we discussed it and all I could find was a subsequent note from Lee that Alberto had told him these were not Phycella, but he couldn't remember what he told him, maybe Rhodophiala. So we should have removed this page and it dropped through the cracks. Before I do that, would some of you take a look at it and let me know whether we should try to rename them or just take them off. We have a lot of Cyrtanthus hybrid pictures so if that is what it is, we could save one and say it was received as Phycella, but is probabably..... That could help someone who had gotten them like Lee and wondered what they were. Thanks to the mystery editor who may or may not be on our list who alerted me. How I wish that some of the recent bogus changes were as helpful. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Phycella Mary Sue From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sat Dec 18 11:36:24 2004 Message-Id: <003701c4e51f$b65b4c40$a6e22bd9@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Leucojum aestivum and vernum Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 16:36:23 -0000 I am interested in this discussion on flowering times of the snowflakes (can we now call the Acis separation Snowflakes?) and in particular the reversal of flowering sequence, with the "summer", Leucojum aestivum, flowering before the "spring" L. vernum with Jim in zone 5. I have always been curious as to what triggers flowering of bulbs, particularly the autumn flowering species, and how I might try and speed them up or slow them down better as potential show exhibits. Not that I show much now. L. aestivum is a wild plant not far from me in the Thames valley, near the extreme of its range, where it is called the Loddon Lily, after the tributary stream of that name feeding into the Thames. I grow it and L. vernum, and L/Acis autumnalis in my garden, (alkaline soil) and in pots, as I do several of the other smaller more tender species. L. aestivum flowers some 4-6 weeks after vernum normally, although the leaves of Aestivum usually appear first and with this relatively mild December are at present ~2" tall, whereas L. vernum are < 1". With vernum the flowers come well before the plant fully leaves out, with aestivum the leaves are more or less fully grown by flowering time. Is this still the case with reversed flowering in zone 5? My aestivum could be 'Gravetye Giant' or not, usually more vigorous and robust than the type, as I think they may be well mixed up in the trade. Similarly I understand the green or yellow tips on vernum at times may vary on some forms, almost at much as Galanthus 'Lady Elphinstone'. Acis autumnalis grows well for me and increases vegetatively alongside cyclamen hederifolium and crocus speciosus and zonatus (a weed for me in the lawn), but rarely flowers. In pots I can flower it. Maybe it is the soil type or maybe the moisture conditions at various times of the year that make the difference, although I cannot guarantee they are all from the same origin now, as I have tried various pots from plant sales trying to get a more floriferous form. The best flowering of A. autumnalis I have seen is at the RHS Rosemoor garden in SW England in Devon, where it is almost frost free under trees on a slope with acid sandy soil, and seeds around readily. Acis nicaeense is easy in pots with minimal protection and flowers OK. A. roseum is OK but I have suddenly lost it in the past, probably getting it too wet. The other Acis I do not have enough of or have not grown long enough to comment on. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 Narcissus 'Cedric Morris' is full in flower in a pot on the outside of the kitchen windowsill this evening, but with 6C max and -7C min forecast for tomorrow, with precipitation, it may need moving. The pansies in full flower can look after themselves. From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Sat Dec 18 13:16:32 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200412618181714390@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Pacific BX 82 Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:17:14 -0800 Dear Dell, If there are any left, I would like 2,4,5,6,7 and 8. Thank you. Kathy Stokmanis 5454 Princeton Way Paradise, CA 95969 From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Sat Dec 18 13:28:53 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200412618182936210@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Oops, Sorry Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:29:36 -0800 Sorry for my accidental posting to the list. Kathy Stokmanis vikingdoc@earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. From buj.joschko@freenet.de Sun Dec 19 05:13:14 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: Leucojum Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:13:15 +0100 Hi Leucojumfriends , I enjoy this discussion about this genus and here is my report from the species that I grow : L. aestivum - from this species I know only "Gravetye Giant " - this plants grows without problems in my borders . L.aestivum v. pulchellum : This plants I have collect on the balearic island of Mallorca - I have found these plants near the sea on a river - they grow good free in my garden ( with temperatures until - 15 C ) L. autumnale : this plants grow on sunny borders free in my garden . L . longifolium : I have sown this plants , grows in pots in my greenhouse L.nicaense : this plants grows also free in my garden - also in sunny borders L. roseum : this species grows also without problems free in my garden , in this year ( September ) by my travel in Corsica and I have found 3 populations in flower - the grow in rock pockets ( Porphyr ) or in open stony maccia area , together with Scilla autumnale, on a high of 80 - 130 m , the soil was acid . L. spec. from one of the ionic islands - collected from a friend - I believe this is L. valentinum - after my informations this species grows in Spain and on this Greece islands , I grow this plants in a pot : in winter in my greenhouse and in summer in my bulbframe . L. tingitianum : this plants ( received from Archibald ) I grow this plants in pots in my greenhouse - I have these species since August of this year . L. trichophyllum : I have received this plants from a friend , he has collected this plants in Spain , I grow also the "pink" form , but until now I have not any expieriences , they grow in pots in my greenhouse . L. vernum : This species grows here in my area natural on shade or semishade woods in wet condition ( together sometime with Galanthus nivalis and Primula ) the grows near rivers or lakes , I know some different populations from 200 m altitude until 1000m , they grow in all kind of soil , in this location with the 1000 m in the french mountains there grow L. vernum together with Narcissus pseudonarcissus , Daphne spec. , Lilium martagon. I have since many years this plants in my garden and it is the same like all the other observations - they grow really slow - the multiplication is not so good , maybe my garden is a bit to dry , they grows by me in semishade between my Helleborus . L. vernum v. carpathicum , I have bougth this species before some years , but I'm a bit dissapoited - the blotches are not really yellow - maybe one reason is my calcy soil . Thats all - I hope to find the other species that I search to find one day . This plants are a really nice addition to my Galanthus , Eranthis, Anemones and all the other bulbplants . With best wishes Hans Southwest- Germany From msittner@mcn.org Sun Dec 19 11:55:54 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041219080314.01fe4100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Acis/Leucojum Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 08:54:53 -0800 Dear All, In March 2004 we had a good discussion about the proposal to move the small Leucojums with narrow leaves and unmarked flowers to the genus Acis leaving only L. aestivum and vernum, the robust, wide-leafed, green marked species in Leucojum. I had to look it up to remember it all. For those of you who have also forgotten or who were not part of our list then, these posts can be found in the archives: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2004-March/subject.html Look under Leucojum and especially the posts from John Grimshaw as he was explaining the proposals and Rodger Whitlock's too for his interesting information and comments. It is one of those debatable topics that I am sure there will always be disagreement about. John told us that taxonomic studies indicated that the two species of Leucojum that are left in that genus are more closely related to Galanthus than to the species now in Acis that they used to be included with when they were known as Leucojum. We don't have many of the species now considered Acis pictured on our wiki. I expect this is partly because they are difficult to photograph. At least I found that true when I was trying to photograph some of mine, but our digital camera doesn't do well with focusing on small flowers and often chooses the background instead and the manual focus I've not been able to figure out and some of the rest of you may do much better. Since Hans grows a lot of them, maybe he'll have some photographs to add at some point. I found Brian's comments about Acis autumnalis (syn. Leucojum autumnale) very interesting as he too is more successful with these in pots than in the ground. My soil is acidic, sandy, but I don't have summer rainfall so if the best flowering he found was in the UK "where it is almost frost free under trees on a slope with acid sandy soil" the factor that is different is the amount of moisture in summer. I guess as my pot grown plants are increasing well it will be time to try it again in the ground in another spot. Maybe this next time I'll find a place they will like. Mary Sue From dells@voicenet.com Sun Dec 19 13:14:25 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 82 CLOSED Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:14:40 -0500 Packages should go out before Christmas. Happy holidays, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From mmattus@charter.net Sun Dec 19 16:17:56 2004 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Phycella not Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:17:52 -0500 These Phycella look surprisingly like my Cyrtanthus elatus Hybrids. Any thoughts? As mine are aging, the umbels are loosening up and the flowers are facing upwards more. I am not familiar with these Phycella species. But they sure look similar to the pics I posted last week on the Cyrtanthus Hybrids page. Matt Mattus Worcester, Massachusetts Zone 5 Light Snow today. 27 deg F On 12/18/04 11:12 AM, "Mary Sue Ittner" wrote: > Dear All, > > Every day I look at what has been added to the wiki and make the > appropriate changes when needed. This morning there was a change on the a > that didn't make any sense (spaces were added), so I checked out the > history and saw that someone had started to write a note on this page and > then changed their mind and edited it again to take the note off and in > doing so had added spaces. The note said that Lee's pictures were not of > Phycella, that Phycella could not be imported from the Netherlands into the > USA. The writer suspected they were Cyrtanthus which was one of Lee's > suspicions. I looked through my messages to see if I could figure out what > we decided when we discussed it and all I could find was a subsequent note > from Lee that Alberto had told him these were not Phycella, but he couldn't > remember what he told him, maybe Rhodophiala. So we should have removed > this page and it dropped through the cracks. Before I do that, would some > of you take a look at it and let me know whether we should try to rename > them or just take them off. We have a lot of Cyrtanthus hybrid pictures so > if that is what it is, we could save one and say it was received as > Phycella, but is probabably..... That could help someone who had gotten > them like Lee and wondered what they were. Thanks to the mystery editor who > may or may not be on our list who alerted me. How I wish that some of the > recent bogus changes were as helpful. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Phycella > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun Dec 19 18:49:21 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Phycella not Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:48:13 +0000 >From: Matt Mattus >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Phycella not >Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:17:52 -0500 > >These Phycella look surprisingly like my Cyrtanthus elatus Hybrids. Any >thoughts? > As mine are aging, the umbels are loosening up and the flowers are facing >upwards more. I am not familiar with these Phycella species. But they sure >look similar to the pics I posted last week on the Cyrtanthus Hybrids page. > >Matt Mattus >Worcester, Massachusetts >Zone 5 >Light Snow today. 27 deg F > > >On 12/18/04 11:12 AM, "Mary Sue Ittner" wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > Every day I look at what has been added to the wiki and make the > > appropriate changes when needed. This morning there was a change on the >a > > that didn't make any sense (spaces were added), so I checked out the > > history and saw that someone had started to write a note on this page >and > > then changed their mind and edited it again to take the note off and in > > doing so had added spaces. The note said that Lee's pictures were not of > > Phycella, that Phycella could not be imported from the Netherlands into >the > > USA. The writer suspected they were Cyrtanthus which was one of Lee's > > suspicions. I looked through my messages to see if I could figure out >what > > we decided when we discussed it and all I could find was a subsequent >note > > from Lee that Alberto had told him these were not Phycella, but he >couldn't > > remember what he told him, maybe Rhodophiala. So we should have removed > > this page and it dropped through the cracks. Before I do that, would >some > > of you take a look at it and let me know whether we should try to rename > > them or just take them off. We have a lot of Cyrtanthus hybrid pictures >so > > if that is what it is, we could save one and say it was received as > > Phycella, but is probabably..... That could help someone who had gotten > > them like Lee and wondered what they were. Thanks to the mystery editor >who > > may or may not be on our list who alerted me. How I wish that some of >the > > recent bogus changes were as helpful. > > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Phycella Dear Matt, Mary Sue, Lee: Of course these Phycellas look so alike Cyrtanthus!! They are Cyrtanthi and not Phycella at all!!! I think it was Cathy who sent an image of a fine bouquet of Rhodophialas in several colors that were sold as Phycella by the Dutch last year. Best Alberto _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Dec 20 02:49:29 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Phycella not Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:49:26 -0800 On Dec 19, 2004, at 3:48 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > Dear Matt, Mary Sue, Lee: > Of course these Phycellas look so alike Cyrtanthus!! They are > Cyrtanthi and not Phycella at all!!! I think it was Cathy who sent an > image of a fine bouquet of Rhodophialas in several colors that were > sold as Phycella by the Dutch last year. > Best > > Alberto > > Sorry, I haven't had time to write before now. I thought I had forwarded Alberto's determination that those were Cyrtanthus hybrids of some kind back when I uploaded that photo. Maybe I planned on doing so and never got around to it but thought I had. When I saw Matt's photos, they looked just like the purported "Phycella" of mine (which by the way is now reblooming even thought we had quite the unseasonably chilly weather for this area for a couple of weeks recently. (Now we're having this really nice unseasonably warm weather in the upper 70s/lower 80s (mid-20's C.).) What's weird is that the photo I uploaded of the Cyrtanthus elatus hybrid I got at that IBS symposium Matt mentioned looks quite different. For one thing, the flowers are much smaller. The "Phycella" Cyrtanthus are about the size of C. falcatus flowers. The photo Alberto referred to above is the picture that was used in the catalog that I ordered from. So even though they used false advertising both in print and in picture, the bulbs I got are quite nice nevertheless. (Although I still would love to get my hands on some Phycella bulbs...or even the Rhodophialas in the photograph!) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From msittner@mcn.org Mon Dec 20 10:49:55 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041219214002.00dbcb70@mail.mcn.org> From: John Bryan (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Ferraria--PBS TOW Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 07:49:04 -0800 Thanks to John Bryan for this interesting Introduction to my next to the last Topic of the Week MSI Dear all, The first time I saw Ferraria in flower, was on a visit to Cape Point right next to the Cape of Good Hope. It was in early October, and while the masses of color in this area of other flowers were fantastic, at the first sighting of Ferraria crispa I was amazed and awed. The pattern of colors reminded me of those found in Paisley shawls, which happened to be the favorite patterns of my mother. I wondered if, when she lived in South Africa during the English winters, she had ever seen this species. The flowers were some 2 inches in diameter, and while there are only two or three open at the time, I wondered why I had never seen this species in flower before in one of the botanic gardens in Europe. After all it was introduced into cultivation way back in 1755. Velvety textured brownish purple with V shaped markings of greenish white in the center with the tips of the petals slightly recurved with the margins very crisped. A magnificent combination of colors and while the petals were quite thick, it had a delicateness about it that added to its beauty. The brown stigma is much dissected at the tip, with a tube formed by the anthers surrounding the lower part. The leaves reminded me of the Ice plant we often see along our freeways in California. The leaves are some 12 inches in length, overlapping, often a little shorter on the stem and those under the flowers almost bract like. There are some 11 species of Ferraria which is in Iridaceae and they were named in honor of Giovannia Battista Ferrari (1584-1655) the Italian Botanist who first described this genus. The majority of the species are dwarf, and the basal leaves are larger than the others all clasping the stem, almost as if protecting it. The flowers in the genus are mostly brown, green or purple and are mottled or spotted. F. crispa subsp nortierii has flowers which are more yellow spotted brown which color is also found along the edges of the petals. The rootstock is a corm, and these do not have a tunic and are often, to the eye, misshapen. They need full sun, should be planted quite deeply, some 4-6 inches in well drained soil, but should be grown with other plants and seemingly prefer to be close to rocks, where no doubt they appreciate the additional moisture in the early summer. They do require good moisture in early to late spring and into the summer, then they like to have warm soil so that by fall they are warm and dry. Unless the soil is poor, no feeding is necessary. Of the species, perhaps F. divaricata, native to southern Namibia and the Northern and Western Cape deserves greater attention. But as is the case with other species, this is not hardy and will not (to my knowledge) withstand any frost. The basal leaves are spreading; other leaves do not cover the stem as much as in other species. The flowers are green with triangular brown markings and the lower portions of the petals are quite erect forming a small cup in the center of the flower. The petals become almost horizontal, but the flowers are not at all long lasting. The height is some 14 to 18 inches, not unlike the majority of the species. F. ferrariola has unbranched stems spotted purple, the petals dull greenish at the margins spotted purple, very crisped along their edges. This species has a sweet fragrance unlike so many others which are fetid, and in the wild it flowers in winter, June to September where it can be found in S. Namaqualand and Vredenburg in the Western Cape. It is not the most attractive species but if used in any breeding program might pass along its fragrance, an advantage to be sure. F. foliosa has purple to maroon flowers and flowers in very early summer or late spring. F. glutinosa has flowers which are brown, maroon or deep purple, and is found in southern tropical Africa, in Botswana and Namibia, flowering in the summer months. F. uncinata was introduced in 1825. The 10 inch stems are branched, and the leaves exceed the stems. The petals are held horizontally with the edges curling downwards the color is a rather lackluster blue to yellowish orange at the tips which curl upwards, the remainder of the flower being greenish with blue blotches, a most unusual combination! This species seems to thrive in sandy soil and quite possibly has a use in sand dunes in warmer climates. All of the species seem to have no objection to salt sea spray. Will anyone undertake breeding ferrarias? Perhaps not, but the fascinating color combinations and patterns are, once seen, never forgotten. I do not know how many people grow these remarkable plants, but they are worthy subjects for those appreciating unusual, and to me, remarkable flowers. From msittner@mcn.org Tue Dec 21 11:02:13 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041221073329.0285eb20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ferraria--PBS TOW Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:01:21 -0800 Dear All, I realize this is a very busy time of year, but hope a few people will respond to this week's topic of the week. Do many grow it? In my experience at least one of the species (F. crispa) is not very hardy so that limits who can grow it outdoors. Even in my climate in a cold year it turns to mush. Like John I really enjoyed seeing this genus in the wild, but often found I wasn't at all sure which species I was looking at. Later consulting my guides I still wasn't sure. The De Vos monograph which Rachel shared with me is helpful, but in her key the leaves and the anthers are very important and our slides are not often good enough to tell or I don't understand the terms well enough. I've added pictures to the wiki of Ferraria crispa corms which are very different and of a species blooming in the Karoo Gardens we saw in August 2003. Their plants had numbers on them, not names so identification was uncertain. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ferraria I think it could be Ferraria divaricata which John says deserves greater attention. I'm sure Julian Slade will keep me honest and tell me if I've missed it. If I am correct and since it has a bluish median zone, it could be ssp. divaricata (there are four subspecies.) One of the significant features of this one according to De Vos and John is a wide bell-shaped cup and I'm not sure exactly what this is supposed to look like. The diagrams in the monograph don't show a very strong difference to me between how this species looks and a couple of the others. It does seem to have wider segments than the other one we saw at Karoo which Julian identified as F. uncinata and which seems to be closely related. (The key says to look at the margins of the foliage leaves. F. uncinata has some that are crisped and the margins of F. divaricata are smooth.) Some of the leaves on the unidentified one looked very unhappy and I am wondering what diseases Ferrarias might be susceptible to. I've mentioned before that I am growing a F. crispa that I grew from IBS seed marked F. uncinata that has a really nice fragrance so perhaps fragrance cannot be an identifying feature. I'd like to know how to grow Ferraria better. I find it difficult to get any of the ones I grow other that F. crispa to come up regularly and to bloom. Lauw said they needed to be started early and I believe they need deep pots, but any cultivation tips any of you have would be appreciated. I am really fond of F. crispa ssp. nortierii because it does not flop and has been a consistent bloomer and is weirdly beautiful. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From jshields@indy.net Tue Dec 21 13:23:34 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041221123051.0232a260@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Ferraria--PBS TOW Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:23:29 -0500 Hi all, I have a few Ferraria in my greenhouse. We take it for granted that as winter-growing African bulbs, they would never be able to grow outdoors in our climate. The only one that has bloomed so far is one accession of Ferraria crispa. A picture of this one is on my web site at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/GLOVBulbs/ShieldsInWinter.html The original bulbs came from the IBS BX, donated by Telos Rare Bulbs in October 1999. We have seed-grown bulbs in abundance of the supposedly all-yellow flowered form of F. crispa, but they have never bloomed so far. These seeds came from the NARGS seed exchange in 1999. I repotted them this Fall in hope that a few of them might try to flower. It is still too early in the season to expect to see flowers anyway, of course, so there is still that hope..... The F. uncinata we have probably came from Mary Sue in July 1998. They increased slowly but have never flowered. Maybe I should repot them? Do they like to be crowded or to have plenty of root space? All the Ferraria we have had tend to produce huge numbers of offsets. I am not at all sure they are worth the greenhouse bench space they occupy. If anyone can suggest how to get them to stop offsetting so much and instead to bloom, I might reconsider. Regards, Jim Shields in wintry central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Dec 21 14:09:22 2004 Message-Id: <842AE832-5383-11D9-96FB-000D9356700E@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Ferraria--PBS TOW Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:07:10 -0800 I know I've said something like this before about a few other species, but this genus grows so easily here for me in the inland valleys of southern California that I virtually ignore it until it blooms, which it does every year. F. crispa in particular grows almost like a weed, and I think that it could easily escape and naturalize if it were sold at the regular nurseries. It also, as Jim Shields mentioned, produces huge numbers of offsets. The other species aren't quite as prolific for me. The flowers on all of them have similar intricate features with highly frilled edges. F. crispa also has a characteristic scent that to me smells a little bit like chocolate at first, but with an unpleasant fetid undertone. This scent is very attractive to flies I've noticed. I basically give most of them no care whatsoever. Offsets that fall out of the pot will sprout wherever they are in the fall. I've started several other species from seeds, but none of them have reached flowering age yet, so I can't say much about them. --Lee From msittner@mcn.org Tue Dec 21 14:16:27 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041221105442.02959580@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ferraria--PBS TOW Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:15:10 -0800 Dear Jim S. and all, The Ferraria uncinata from me is really just F. crispa, but a nice smelling one. I had trusted my IBS seed source and was thrown off by the smell since it is not supposed to smell good, but Julian told me it was crispa and as I struggled through the key I could see he was correct. I never ever got it to bloom in a pot. Like you it just offset like mad. I tried to turn it into a summer grower since someone from Seattle on the IBS list said that worked for him, but had no luck. So I planted it out, first in a raised bed and then in the ground. Under those conditions it bloomed and some years for months and months, but it also offset madly, especially in the raised bed so blooming did not discourage that. And in a bed they migrated so it was easy for them to end up next to something smaller they could over power. But the long bloom, the vanilla-like smell, and the intriguing flowers made me reluctant to toss them so they went in the ground. The one from the BX courtesy of Diana that blooms for you never bloomed for me in a container either so it has been planted out. I'd really be interested in hearing from those people who bloom these successfully in a container. My F. crispa ssp. nortierii blooms in a container (sown in fall 98, it bloomed spring 2001 for the first time). I suspect some of the others are too young to bloom, but F. schaeferi I obtained from Telos a year ago had robust looking leaves, but no flowers. I'm hoping it will bloom this year. I hadn't thought of F. crispa being a weed, but I think Lee might be correct, at least in Southern California areas with little frost. Where it is colder in a cold year, ones in growth would surely die. Perhaps not ones sitting the year out under ground however. Mary Sue From member@thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk Tue Dec 21 15:43:15 2004 Message-Id: <32416.1103661794030.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> From: Tony Goode Subject: Cold Treatment of Crocus Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:43:14 +0100 (CET) I have received an unusual request abut Crocuses. Having no practical experience I thought I'd pass the question around. The enquiry in full is copied below: "I come from Croydon in South London (UK); the town's name is Anglo-Saxon for saffron or crocus valley. Being born & bred in Croydon, I would like to use a crocus in my wedding bouquet next summer (3 July in Norfolk), but are there any species that flower this late? If so, where can I get some bulbs or the growing plant from? Is it possible to force or otherwise trick a particular variety of Crocus into flowering later (i.e. in the summer) ? I should be grateful for any help you can give me." The best answer I could come up with was to shift the venue to an alpine location but perhaps there is someone out there who has experience of preparing bulbs for summer horticultural shows using cold treatment. I'm sure you've nothing better to think about during the festive season but hope this brings some light relief :-) Tony Goode. Norwich UK. -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From piabinha@yahoo.com Tue Dec 21 16:22:23 2004 Message-Id: <20041221212223.53728.qmail@web51904.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Ferraria--PBS TOW Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:22:23 -0800 (PST) i wonder if the fetid smell of Ferraria is also due to the fact that Ferraria flowers at least superficially seem to be mimicking those carrion flowers, Stapelias. ===== tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Tue Dec 21 17:27:45 2004 Message-Id: <001301c4e7ad$006fc560$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Ferraria--PBS TOW Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:32:43 -0500 Yes...mimicking rotting flesh, but enticing flies to do the pollinating. As for in pots...they do well in a slightly cooler/drier habitat of USDA zone 8 or 9, but really succeed in the garden. Kevin Preuss > i wonder if the fetid smell of Ferraria is also due to > the fact that Ferraria flowers at least superficially > seem to be mimicking those carrion flowers, Stapelias. > > ===== > tsuh yang From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Dec 22 03:00:16 2004 Message-Id: <008e01c4e7fc$442dbec0$eeea403e@John> From: Subject: Cold Treatment of Crocus Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:19:50 -0000 Tony Sounds like a tall order to me! Why don't you suggest that she has saffron rice at the reception meal? Honour would be satisfied in this way, I should think. Or she could wear saffron robes... I wonder if Croydon refers to real Crocus, or to Colchicum? (although I'm not sure if Colchicum autumnale was ever found in Surrey) John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Goode" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 8:43 PM Subject: [pbs] Cold Treatment of Crocus > I have received an unusual request abut Crocuses. Having no practical experience I thought I'd pass the question around. The enquiry in full is copied below: > > "I come from Croydon in South London (UK); the town's name is Anglo-Saxon for saffron or crocus valley. Being born & bred in Croydon, I would like to use a crocus in my wedding bouquet next summer (3 July in Norfolk), but are there any species that flower this late? If so, where can I get some bulbs or the growing plant from? Is it possible to force or otherwise trick a particular variety of Crocus into flowering later (i.e. in the summer) ? > I should be grateful for any help you can give me." > > From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed Dec 22 04:41:33 2004 Message-Id: <002a01c4e80a$6cedb050$63859b51@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Cold Treatment of Crocus Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:41:34 -0000 As regards forcing, or delaying crocus, why not ask someone like Avon bulbs who do it every year for the Chelsea flower show, although that is end of May. Don't I recall a BBC gardeners world many years ago when they slipped a flowering pot of crocus into a summer garden, much to the disgust of the presenter at the time. You might also point out that as crocus have no significant flower stem they are not easy to use in a bouquet, except maybe as the whole plant. I think silk flowers are the answer. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > "I come from Croydon in South London (UK); the town's name is Anglo-Saxon for > saffron or crocus valley. Being born & bred in Croydon, I would like to use a crocus > in my wedding bouquet next summer (3 July in Norfolk), but are there any species > that flower this late? If so, where can I get some bulbs or the growing plant from? > Is it possible to force or otherwise trick a particular variety of Crocus into flowering > later (i.e. in the summer) ? > I should be grateful for any help you can give me." From dmahoney@sfbotanicalgarden.org Wed Dec 22 13:09:25 2004 Message-Id: From: "Don Mahoney" Subject: Ferraria in containers Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:16:19 -0800 Dear All, At Strybing (now San Francisco Bot. Garden) we have grown Ferraria crispa in pots and it sends up a few flowers every year if we can keep the snails and slugs from it. We are not allowed to uou pesticides or baits because of city policies. It has not multiplied very fast. They get one ot two light liquid fertilizers a year and are grown in black gallon cans in half peat and half perlite . In the summer the pots are allowed to go dry and are watered only by occasional fog drip. At my house in a somewhat warmer summer/ colder winter location along the east bay my F. crispa has never bloomed in a container, But F.densepunctulata (Silverhill seed) has bloomed reliably and is a quite beatuiful flower even if it only lasts for one day. Last year it had 10 or 12 flowers, I have it in a deep 10" clay pot in half sand and half peat and it gets liquid fertilzer 3 or 4 times during the growing season. They are really suseptible to frost and I've lost every one I've left out when it gets below 30 F. Don Mahoney Richmond, Ca. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:02 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 23, Issue 21 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Ferraria--PBS TOW (Mary Sue Ittner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:01:21 -0800 From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Re: [pbs] Ferraria--PBS TOW To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041221073329.0285eb20@mail.mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear All, I realize this is a very busy time of year, but hope a few people will respond to this week's topic of the week. Do many grow it? In my experience at least one of the species (F. crispa) is not very hardy so that limits who can grow it outdoors. Even in my climate in a cold year it turns to mush. Like John I really enjoyed seeing this genus in the wild, but often found I wasn't at all sure which species I was looking at. Later consulting my guides I still wasn't sure. The De Vos monograph which Rachel shared with me is helpful, but in her key the leaves and the anthers are very important and our slides are not often good enough to tell or I don't understand the terms well enough. I've added pictures to the wiki of Ferraria crispa corms which are very different and of a species blooming in the Karoo Gardens we saw in August 2003. Their plants had numbers on them, not names so identification was uncertain. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ferraria I think it could be Ferraria divaricata which John says deserves greater attention. I'm sure Julian Slade will keep me honest and tell me if I've missed it. If I am correct and since it has a bluish median zone, it could be ssp. divaricata (there are four subspecies.) One of the significant features of this one according to De Vos and John is a wide bell-shaped cup and I'm not sure exactly what this is supposed to look like. The diagrams in the monograph don't show a very strong difference to me between how this species looks and a couple of the others. It does seem to have wider segments than the other one we saw at Karoo which Julian identified as F. uncinata and which seems to be closely related. (The key says to look at the margins of the foliage leaves. F. uncinata has some that are crisped and the margins of F. divaricata are smooth.) Some of the leaves on the unidentified one looked very unhappy and I am wondering what diseases Ferrarias might be susceptible to. I've mentioned before that I am growing a F. crispa that I grew from IBS seed marked F. uncinata that has a really nice fragrance so perhaps fragrance cannot be an identifying feature. I'd like to know how to grow Ferraria better. I find it difficult to get any of the ones I grow other that F. crispa to come up regularly and to bloom. Lauw said they needed to be started early and I believe they need deep pots, but any cultivation tips any of you have would be appreciated. I am really fond of F. crispa ssp. nortierii because it does not flop and has been a consistent bloomer and is weirdly beautiful. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 23, Issue 21 *********************************** From doji@hawaii.rr.com Wed Dec 22 13:36:27 2004 Message-Id: <003901c4e855$1ad09d00$0cfa0842@DJL1SV31> From: "Gary" Subject: Vascular Plant Image Library Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:36:06 -1000 Hello to all, New to me is this site from Texas A&M University with many photographs of plants, geophytic and otherwise, listed by family. I especially like seeing them from habitat to close up inflorescence in many cases. Not all of the images are Texas native plants, and site locations are not restricted either. Thank you, Texas A&M. Gary http://www.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/gallery.htm From c-mueller@tamu.edu Wed Dec 22 14:00:02 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Vascular Plant Image Library Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:58:57 -0600 Thanks for the compliments, Gary! This is an accomplishment from the Botany end of the Horticulture spectrum here at Texas A&M. Cynthia W. Mueller >>> doji@hawaii.rr.com 12/22/04 12:36:06 PM >>> Hello to all, New to me is this site from Texas A&M University with many photographs of plants, geophytic and otherwise, listed by family. I especially like seeing them from habitat to close up inflorescence in many cases. Not all of the images are Texas native plants, and site locations are not restricted either. Thank you, Texas A&M. Gary http://www.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/gallery.htm _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From hornig@usadatanet.net Wed Dec 22 14:45:08 2004 Message-Id: <259010-2200412322194449118@M2W093.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Vascular Plant Image Library Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:44:49 -0500 I searched a couple of my favorite plants here, and immediately found some egregious errors (Asclepias purpurascens, e.g.). I do wonder whether anyone is vetting these, or whether they're just taking the source's ID at face value? Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials Oswego NY USA Zone 5 Original Message: ----------------- From: Gary doji@hawaii.rr.com Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:36:06 -1000 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Vascular Plant Image Library Hello to all, New to me is this site from Texas A&M University with many photographs of plants, geophytic and otherwise, listed by family. I especially like seeing them from habitat to close up inflorescence in many cases. Not all of the images are Texas native plants, and site locations are not restricted either. Thank you, Texas A&M. Gary http://www.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/gallery.htm _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From doji@hawaii.rr.com Wed Dec 22 16:06:55 2004 Message-Id: <009501c4e86a$2850ae10$0cfa0842@DJL1SV31> From: "Gary" Subject: Technical papers Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:06:50 -1000 Hello to all, If you want to peruse the technical side of things, try the new site http://scholar.google.com/ . It only contains technical papers. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. Gary From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Dec 22 20:58:59 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20041222205808.00a8de30@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: hardiness of plants in pots; was: Re: [pbs] Ferraria in containers Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:58:08 -0500 At 10:16 AM 12/22/2004 -0800, Don Mahoney wrote: >Last year it had 10 or 12 flowers, I have it in a deep 10" clay pot in half >sand and half peat and it gets liquid fertilzer 3 or 4 times during the >growing season. They are really suseptible to frost and I've lost every one >I've left out when it gets below 30 F. Don Mahoney Richmond, Ca. Plants growing in pots are (or should be known as) notoriously less hardy than their congeners growing in the ground. Even plants which survive brutally cold conditions in the ground will often die during an overnight freeze when growing in a small pot above ground, particularly if the pot does not touch the ground. I was reminded of this earlier this week when the first really cold temperatures of the winter arrived. Overnight it suddenly went from comfortably cold to 11 degrees F. For the most part I was prepared, but a big pot of Disporopsis fuscopicta on the ground looks pretty sad now. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Oxalis braziliensis is blooming on the light table near some newly germinated eighteen-year-old seed of Ipomoea tricolor Wedding Bells and newly germinated ten-year-old seed of Tropaeolum peregrinum. > From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Dec 22 23:18:27 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: hardiness - ancient seed Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:17:49 -0800 >Jim McKenney > newly germinated eighteen-year-old >seed of Ipomoea tricolor Wedding Bells and newly germinated ten-year-old >seed of Tropaeolum peregrinum. > Jim, Were those seeds sitting in packets while they aged or were they in soil? Diane Whitehead From ang.por@aliceposta.it Thu Dec 23 14:56:54 2004 Message-Id: <001d01c4e8d4$75021cc0$bd103152@t7t2y7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Ferraria crispa Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:47:45 +0100 I am not really fascinated from this genus, but I do grow Ferraria crispa in my climate and it is a plant with great potentiality to become invasive, like other winter growing South African irids such Freesia alba and Chasmante floribunda. It multiplies at allarming rate vegetatively, but at the moment I don't remember if it set seeds. I will check next season. happy holidays Angelo From msittner@mcn.org Thu Dec 23 11:09:36 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041223075611.02ea8d20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ferraria in containers Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:08:37 -0800 Dear Don & All, Thanks for posting Don. We look forward to hearing about your experiences again, both at the San Francisco Botancial Garden and your bulb collection in Richmond. Did you plant the F. densepunctulata in the ground where it froze or was it out in a container? It sounds like Ferraria may grow best in Florida and southern California. Our treasurer, Jennifer Hildebrand, put a picture on the wiki of F. densepunctulata on the wiki. Jen, if you are reading this, I'd be curious to know if you were able to grow and flower it on your light table during your time in Nebraska. Doug Westfall, if you are reading, do you like Lee, have good luck growing and flowering these in containers in Southern California? I suspect some of our Australian members do well with Ferraria too. I have some pictures from an old image list from Dirk Wallace of some stunning specimens of F. densepunctulata so I know he is successful. Mary Sue From jshields@indy.net Thu Dec 23 16:32:56 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041223162637.0237e990@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Ferraria crispa Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:32:53 -0500 Last year, when my one blooming accession of Ferraria crispa bloomed, I hand pollinated several flowers. Those flowers produced seeds. Next summer I should repot this accession. I just repotted Mary Sue's vanilla-scented Ferraria from a 6-inch clay azalea pot into a 2-gallon regular plastic pot. The tubers were almost all at the bottom of the pot when I dumped them out. So I planted them about mid-way down in the new larger container. The largest tubers were those at the lowest points, and they had not sprouted at all, while the smaller tubers were almost all starting growth of new shoots. We'll have to wait another year to see what happens with these. Regards, Jim Shields At 10:47 AM 12/23/2004 +0100, you wrote: >I am not really fascinated from this genus, but I do grow Ferraria crispa >in my climate and it is a plant with great potentiality to become >invasive, like other winter growing South African irids such Freesia alba >and Chasmante floribunda. >It multiplies at allarming rate vegetatively, but at the moment I don't >remember if it set seeds. I will check next season. > >happy holidays >Angelo ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com Thu Dec 23 16:58:02 2004 Message-Id: <20041223215802.7AC204C005@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "Sheri Ann Richerson" Subject: Ferraria crispa Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:57:58 -0500 Hi, I have a Ferraria but I do not remember which one. I think it is crispa but I will not swear to that. I received my bulbs last fall. I planted them in one of those plastic cauldrons. I couldn't resist! Anyway they have never done a thing. So today I went downstairs and was digging around in my pot. I could not find any on top but did not want to dump the soil so I kept digging. My tiny tubers were clear at the bottom of the pot. I am thinking maybe I put them in too large of a pot and need to re-pot them into something smaller as the tubers are about the size of a quarter around and maybe five quarters thick. Where can I find some of the vanilla scented ones and are there other scented varieties? Sheri Make a difference! Plant-A-Row For The Hungry Ask me how! Region III Plant-A-Row For The Hungry Representative http://www.gwaa.org/Par/index.html Do you like gardening? Don't miss the ultimate website for the truly obsessed plant-a-holic! FREE swap and chat forums, informative articles and much more! http://www.exoticgardening.com Do you need a freelance writer, editor, photographer or speaker? Contact Sheri Ann Richerson (765) 664-6916 SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com http://sheriannricherson.exoticgardening.com From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Dec 23 21:37:35 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20041223213840.00a8bb30@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: hardiness - ancient seed Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:38:40 -0500 At 08:17 PM 12/22/2004 -0800, Diane Whitehead wrote: >Were those seeds sitting in packets while they aged or were they in soil? Those seeds sat around the house for years at room temperature. About ten years ago they were put into the household refrigerator, along with the remainder of the seed collection. A few items went into the freezer, but most are in the refrigerator. The freezer is probably the better choice for truly long term storage. In my experience, Ipomoea tricolor cultivars do not self sow here. In fact, it's unusual for them to ripen seed. Some Pharbitis purpurea (Ipomoea purpurea) cultivars do self seed and come back year after year from seed in the soil. About four months ago I cultivated a section of the garden which had not been touched for years. Seedlings soon appeared of both Euphorbia lathyris and Onopordum acanthium, neither of which has flowered or set seed here in recent years. Some seed of Lilium pumilum from the season 2002 started to show germination within a month. This seed came from the refrigerator. In the bad old days, it was widely believed that lily seed more than a year old was worthless. My cold frames are now packed with pots of newly sown seed - some of it current, some of it old. A few of these are geophytes, most are not. If there is an interest in the group with respect to the results, I'll post them as they occur. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where old seed is always given a trial because I have a hard time believing that dead is always really dead. From aquaflorasa@telkomsa.net Fri Dec 24 04:16:07 2004 Message-Id: <003301c4e999$1f2b8370$0fadef9b@p7d1p2> From: "aquaflora" Subject: Scadoxus Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:14:51 +0200 Dear bulb enthusiasts, I am located in South Africa and I am looking for S.cyrtanthiflorus, S.cinnabarinus, S.longifolius and S.puniceus 'Alba'. Any information is welcome, if you grow any of these let me know and name your price or what you want to trade for (let me know even if you don't want to trade or sell!). Habitat/Locality information will also be greatly appreciated!!! If you know any one in Tropical Africa i.e. Uganda, Gabon, Ethiopia etc. that will be willing to correspond with me, please let me know!!! Or any Horticultural societies, Botanic Gardens, Universities etc. that I could contact, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! You can contact me privately at aquaflorasa@telkomsa.net Thanks for all the help and information!!! Kind regards...and a Merry Christmas to all of you!!! Pieter van der Walt From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Fri Dec 24 04:34:20 2004 Message-Id: <002801c4e99c$76e1dc60$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Scadoxus Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:39:28 -0500 Silver Hill seeds ought to be able to help out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "aquaflora" To: Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:14 AM Subject: [pbs] Scadoxus > Dear bulb enthusiasts, > > > > I am located in South Africa and I am looking for S.cyrtanthiflorus, > S.cinnabarinus, S.longifolius and S.puniceus 'Alba'. > > > > Any information is welcome, if you grow any of these let me know and name > your price or what you want to trade for (let me know even if you don't want > to trade or sell!). Habitat/Locality information will also be greatly > appreciated!!! > > > > If you know any one in Tropical Africa i.e. Uganda, Gabon, Ethiopia etc. > that will be willing to correspond with me, please let me know!!! Or any > Horticultural societies, Botanic Gardens, Universities etc. that I could > contact, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! > > > > You can contact me privately at aquaflorasa@telkomsa.net > > > > Thanks for all the help and information!!! > > > > Kind regards...and a Merry Christmas to all of you!!! > > > > Pieter van der Walt > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From silverhill@yebo.co.za Fri Dec 24 10:52:45 2004 Message-Id: <009e01c4e9cf$efdff330$0100a8c0@SERVER> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: Scadoxus Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:30:43 +0200 Unfortunately we can't. We have never had seed of any of those species. Talking about Scadoxus, our Scadoxus pole-evansii is about to flower for the first time. It is really hot in Cape Town at the moment (over 30C) and the flower spike is lengthening by the hour, so perhaps it will be open in a couple of days time. What a nice Christmas present! Best wishes to you all for 2005 Rachel Saunders ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin D. Preuss" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus > Silver Hill seeds ought to be able to help out. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "aquaflora" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:14 AM > Subject: [pbs] Scadoxus > > > > Dear bulb enthusiasts, > > > > > > > > I am located in South Africa and I am looking for S.cyrtanthiflorus, > > S.cinnabarinus, S.longifolius and S.puniceus 'Alba'. > > > > > > > > Any information is welcome, if you grow any of these let me know and name > > your price or what you want to trade for (let me know even if you don't > want > > to trade or sell!). Habitat/Locality information will also be greatly > > appreciated!!! > > > > > > > > If you know any one in Tropical Africa i.e. Uganda, Gabon, Ethiopia etc. > > that will be willing to correspond with me, please let me know!!! Or any > > Horticultural societies, Botanic Gardens, Universities etc. that I could > > contact, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! > > > > > > > > You can contact me privately at aquaflorasa@telkomsa.net > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the help and information!!! > > > > > > > > Kind regards...and a Merry Christmas to all of you!!! > > > > > > > > Pieter van der Walt > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From stockholm@dragg.net Fri Dec 24 07:33:53 2004 Message-Id: <002a01c4e9b5$4ca5c060$be656d0c@ThePC> From: "Daniel Thompson" Subject: ferraria Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:37:14 -0500 Hello group; Last year I received some Ferraria crispa from the pbs exchange. I planted them in a 6 inch plastic pot in a cold (kept just above freezing) greenhouse. They grew well and had one bloom. They spent the summer in a shaded greenhouse and were completely neglected until about two months ago. They are going to bloom again , but I cannot be sure how many blooms they will have yet. They seem to be good pot plants here. After gaining some experience with the genus, I might want to try other species. Daniel Thompson in Kentucky usda zone 6??? where it is clear and 17 F this morning. From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Fri Dec 24 09:52:46 2004 Message-Id: <000901c4e9c8$38f68eb0$55a7f10a@mofbiasellapc> From: "fbiasella" Subject: Holiday Greetings Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:52:41 -0500 Dear All, My warmest wishes to all for a joyous and blessed Christmas and Health & Happiness in the New Year. Thanks to all for all their wonderful stories, help and absolutely beautiful pictures on the WIKI. Very Warm Wishes, Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA From msittner@mcn.org Fri Dec 24 12:16:07 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041224091339.02767ab0@mail.mcn.org> From: "Jan v/d Berg" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Triteleia and Brodiaea. Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:15:15 -0800 Hello, All I am trying to make a collection of all Triteleia. Who can help me with T. Hendersoni and other rare varieties? Happy Christmas to all Jan van den Berg Netherlands. jan@boltha.nl From ConroeJoe@aol.com Fri Dec 24 13:02:56 2004 Message-Id: <102.5707761c.2efdb3cd@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Frost Report Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:02:53 EST Hi, Here is a bit of a damage report on some plants that I'm wintering outside (pots or in the ground). Temperatures dropped to about 23 F (-5 C) early this week; altogether there was about 12 hours of below freezing weather (below 32 F), followed by a sunny day. See the lists below for damage reports. These reports are for small plants, plants that are 1 or 2 years old. Today will be a real test for them, it has not gone above 32 F yet (by noon) and temperatures of 19 F (-7 C) are possible tonight. Tonight I'll cover the Nerine, the Renga, and the 2 Cyrtanthus. 1. Nerine sarniensis (hybrid of some sort): survived just fine-leaves collapsed but are perking up fine. 2. Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus: survived just fine-a couple of leaves were burnt. 3. Cyrtanthus sanguineus: leaves killed to the ground-bulbs seem OK. 4. Crinum erubescens: no damage (in the ground) 5. C. bulbispermum: no damage (in the ground or in pots) 6. All other Crinum: most leaves killed to the ground 7. Various rain lilies: no damage (in pots or in ground) 8. Arthropodium cirratum (renga lily): leaves burnt (year old seedlings) 9. Grass aloes (cooperi, myriacantha, ecklonis): no damage Cordially, Conroe Joe From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Dec 24 15:47:03 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041224102217.010a3788@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Triteleia and Brodiaea. Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:43:03 -0800 Jan van den Berg asked, >I am trying to make a collection of all Triteleia. >Who can help me with T. Hendersoni and other rare varieties? The best sources are: Telos Rare Bulbs (bulbs only) and Ron Ratko Northwest Native Seeds (seeds only) I grow all the Triteleia species except the rare island species T. clementina and T. guadalupensis, and the poorly described T. lugens. I usually have bulbs of some species and forms for sale in summer. If Jan is planning to hybridize triteleias, I suggest that he get hold of the form of T. laxa informally known as 'Sierra Giant' or 'Mariposa Giant'. It is little known overseas, but its characteristic of very large size would be useful especially for cutflowers. This is not a clone, but a local variant growing especially in Mariposa County, California, and around the El Portal entrance to Yosemite National Park. When I first happened on it, I had no idea I was looking at T. laxa! It's about 3 times the size of the common T. laxa of lower-elevation fields, and has pale lavender instead of deep violet flowers. It grows in light woodland and I think in sites that have a little extra moisture in spring. Triteleias are very easy to grow from seed, flowering in the third year from sowing. Some species increase fast vegetatively, but others are slow. Most of them flower late in the bulb season, in late spring to early summer. They're best planted among leafier plants for support. The individual flowers tend to open in succession over a long period. Two commercial clones are available in the mass market: T. ixioides 'Starlight' and T. laxa 'Queen Fabiola'. The Robinett selection T. ixioides 'High Sierra' is brighter yellow than 'Starlight' but has fewer flowers in the inflorescence. The Robinett selection 'Humboldt Star' has larger flowers than 'Queen Fabiola', also deep violet, but doesn't increase as fast as the latter, at least for me. The species most likely to be widely adaptable (especially in colder regions) are T. grandiflora and T. hyacinthina, and both are quite showy when well grown. T. hyacinthina increases very fast by offsets and self-sows. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From robertwerra@sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 24 14:50:47 2004 Message-Id: <20041224195043.99429.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robert Werra Subject: Ferraria TOW Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:50:43 -0800 (PST) Dear All, I grow Ferraria crispa in a 18" by 6" pot for 10+- yrs. and cannot kill it. Winter rainfall, neglect, no fertilizer, winter frost to 26 degrees yield a pot full of leaves, hundreds of corms and 3 blooming stems year after year. Transplanted corms to another pot resulted in lots of leaves, but no blooms. There must be a trick to make them bloom, but I don't know what it is. Anyone is welcome to lots of corms. Sincerely, Bob in No. Calif. From msittner@mcn.org Fri Dec 24 17:16:18 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041224141221.028c3d50@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Lily Bulb or Seed Exchange Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:15:01 -0800 This came from a newly subscribed member, but was in html format so did not get through to the list. I'm reposting it as a text message. Mary Sue Hello, I am interested in trading nursery propagated (from legitimately purchased seed) native western lilies for native eastern lilies. I am particularly interested in Lilium grayi, superbum - "maroon", canadense - "clear and speckled yellow", michauxii and pyrophilum. My offerings include L. maritimum, kelleyanum and vollmeri. I do have small plants of L. parryi and pardalinum. Jerry Murray - The Seed Connoiseur jdlmurray52 at juno.com From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Dec 24 19:38:35 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041224193438.01be5b00@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Lily Bulb or Seed Exchange Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 19:38:27 -0500 I highly recommend the NEWFS seed exchange as an ethical source of eastern wildflowers. Their seed exchange is open to non-members, and should be kicking off here real soon (February, I think?). They have a good website at http://www.newfs.org (by the way NEWFS = New England Wild Flower Society). I ordered Lilium grayii from them last time but didn't get any germination yet. Dennis in Cincinnati At 05:15 PM 12/24/2004, you wrote: >This came from a newly subscribed member, but was in html format so did >not get through to the list. I'm reposting it as a text message. > >Mary Sue >Hello, >I am interested in trading nursery propagated (from legitimately purchased >seed) native western lilies for native eastern lilies. I am particularly >interested in Lilium grayi, superbum - "maroon", canadense - "clear and >speckled yellow", michauxii and pyrophilum. > >My offerings include L. maritimum, kelleyanum and vollmeri. I do have >small plants of L. parryi and pardalinum. > >Jerry Murray - The Seed Connoiseur >jdlmurray52 at juno.com >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jdlmurray52@juno.com Fri Dec 24 20:33:38 2004 Message-Id: <20041224.173116.3520.1.jdlmurray52@juno.com> From: Jerry L Murray Subject: Lily Bulb or Seed Exchange Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:31:16 -0800 Mary Sue, I do appreciate you sending my message to your lily growing friend. Hopefully he/she will want to trade causing high elation in this guy, since it will nearly complete my U.S. lilium collection. My desire is to propagate all the species; therefore, providing a gene pool source for future reintroductions to wild places extirpated of these national natural treasures. I recently acquired Lilium iridollae and Lilium catesbaei seed from a government agency. I will give them my one-two Alaska kelp treatment and see how they respond. Enjoy the Christmas Holiday, Jerry Murray > Hello, > I am interested in trading nursery propagated (from legitimately > purchased > seed) native western lilies for native eastern lilies. I am > particularly > interested in Lilium grayi, superbum - "maroon", canadense - "clear > and > speckled yellow", michauxii and pyrophilum. > > My offerings include L. maritimum, kelleyanum and vollmeri. I do > have small > plants of L. parryi and pardalinum. > > Jerry Murray - The Seed Connoiseur > jdlmurray52 at juno.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From msittner@mcn.org Fri Dec 24 21:50:15 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041224184312.02869de0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Northwest Native Seed list Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:48:55 -0800 Dear all, In line with Jane's message earlier about Ron Ratko as an excellent source of wild collected seed for Triteleia, I got a message from him today. Here are the relevant parts: "The seedlist is finally ready. It is available as a catalog, which will be mailed no later than January 3, or as an attachment to an e-mail. It is formatted in Microsoft Office 2001 and is 1MB in size. I have also the list divided into three files if 1MB is too large for your inbox. Please let me know how you would like to receive the list. I have a new e-mail: oreonana at mbay.net. Please do not use oreonana at juno.com. Ron Ratko Northwest Native Seed December 24, 2004 " I suggest that anyone who is interested who has not ordered from Ron before email him at his new email address and ask for a catalog. His seed is first rate and his catalog gives you such excellent collection information. Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Dec 24 23:46:46 2004 Message-Id: <41CCF0B4.3000302@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Peace on Earth Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:46:44 -0500 Wishes for a safe and happy Holiday Season http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg Arnold From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sat Dec 25 13:26:19 2004 Message-Id: <20041225182619.4297.qmail@web50101.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Anemone question Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 10:26:19 -0800 (PST) Since I have been doing floral designs for the holidays with Anemone coronaria hybrids, I was wondering if they will grow in So CA. Does anyone have experience with these? ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sat Dec 25 13:55:37 2004 Message-Id: <20041225185537.44386.qmail@web50107.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Ferraria crispa Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 10:55:37 -0800 (PST) Interesting that this is the topic of the week. I just found my pot (before reading any of the messages) and divided it up into 5 1-gallon containers. The corms popped off the growths in the process and I put them into a seperate container. The interesting thing I found about the growths is they had very little if any small fiberous roots. There was a long white root from the corm and then the top growth from the corm up. It looked almost like a retracticle root. How deep do these corms go when they are in the ground? Mine were about 2/3 down in the 1-gallon container. These have never flowered for me as this is my first year with them. I think they came from a BX. I would love to get a lot more of them if anyone has too many, I am open. The other species sound just as fascinating. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From msittner@mcn.org Sun Dec 26 11:17:39 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041226081456.02938110@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Anemone question Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 08:16:38 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 13:21:13 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "chuck schwartz" Subject: Re: [pbs] Anemone question i've been using A.coronaria on my accounts for about 20 years. They return consistently as long as the soil is well drained. (They take summer irrigation while dormant.) Where the soil is heavier, i make sure they stay dry while aestivating. chuck Schwartz From davidxvictor-0frWqAtyVkeEh0McPJHVmbbuRC6sXMu@mailblocks.com Sun Dec 26 15:20:15 2004 Message-Id: From: David Victor Subject: TOW - Ferraria Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:18:17 +0000 Dear all, I was away most of last week and have only just caught up on this topic. As Ferraria are one of the genera with which I have a love affair, I thought that I might add a few comments, even if they are very late. I grow around ten collections of Ferraria, mainly ones collected by Rod and Rachel Saunders, though some come from other sources. F. crispa flowers regularly for me, normally around February. A strong perfume, which I find the ladies particularly dislike. It has a smell somewhere between musk and cat, with sweet overtones and fills the whole greenhouse. I have two collections of F. ferrariola in bud at present and two others that I just have as F. species. I have yet to see the latter flower. I grow all of my Ferraria in one litre pots. These are deep plastic pots, with a 4 inch diameter top. They live in a cold greenhouse, as do most of my South African bulbs, which drops to minus five Centigrade on really cold nights. They sit on the plunge and on the cold nights I raise a canopy of fleece over them to protect them from the worst. This question of temperature is an interesting one. Its been cold the last few nights and I recorded minus three in the greenhouse. Whilst some of the bulbs had the extra protection, I have lots of pots of Oxalis, Nerine, Haemanthus and seedlings of Leucoryne and Tristagma on unprotected metal staging that are undamaged. The books would suggest that such plants would not come through this regime, yet they do year after year with me. I feel that my practice of only watering at the start of mild periods helps the situation. Also, day-time temperatures normally rise above freezing so that the plants only have such cold for short periods. Any thoughts? Best regards, David Victor From buj.joschko@freenet.de Mon Dec 27 08:29:16 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: bad news - lost seeds Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:29:22 +0100 Hi all , Today I have bad news for this group . I have send a lot of seeds from me to Dell for the BX - this mail I give to the post on 24. 11 .04 and until today Dell has nothing received these - it is pity , because it was o lot of interesting seeds : many seeds from my peonys and some seeds w.c. from my holidays from Corsica . If anybody is intersted for peonyseed please contact me and I will send my seedlist ( as attechment on a mail ) - I have still some seeds . My hope is that when I send a little portion this makes not a problem ( I have send earlier seeds to USA - without problems) , to send in other countrys here in Europe is not a problem . It is a disapointment for me that sending the seeds to Dell not has works - it was a lot of seeds ( more then 100s ) , a lot of work and the money for the charges is also lost . So I dont know if I send later more seeds to the BX - if anyone has a idea - please give me a answer . Now my best wishes for all member of this group for the NEW YEAR - and good luck with the plants Your Hans From msittner@mcn.org Mon Dec 27 11:31:36 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041227075728.02839d20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: TOW - Ferraria and cold temperatures Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:30:40 -0800 Dear all, Thanks to all of you who posted on this topic during a time of year which can be very hectic. I am wondering if all the Ferrarias offset as much a F. crispa. I got one Ferraria ferrariola from the BX and Joyce. It has never bloomed and remains one corm. I started some more seed from Silverhill to keep it company and it germinated mostly the second year instead of the first after being left outside and dried off and in this third year none of them are up. They may still be there however as I did not repot them. There were corms of Ferraria divaricartia that I received from Jim Robinett when he asked me to rescue the bulbs he could no longer care for. There were 12 corms, first planted in 2000. I gave half to Mendocino Coast Botanical Gardens the next year after they had not bloomed (nor had they increased.) I don't know if they ever bloomed for them (Lily, Kristina are you reading this to say?), but they have not bloomed yet for me. They went from 7 to 10 the next year and to 14 since then. That is not a huge increase as corms grow. Following Lauw's advice I have watered them early and some of them come up in September each year. I've grown them in the structure that is outside, but covered on top so controlled the amount of rainfall they got to some degree. This year they went into one of my raised beds so I'll see if that works better. The question David raised intrigues me. One would expect in the greenhouse there would be some protection from the wind that would help that might not occur outside even if the temperatures were the same. We all experience parts of our garden where they is some protection from other shrubs that helps. Also in the greenhouse you'd expect there would be protection from the harsh early morning sun which is so damaging to plants that are icy. The winter of 1990 described and remembered as the Arctic Freeze in California when many of us lost a lot of tender plants had been unusually mild and dry prior to the cold. There were a lot of people writing about why it was so severe to give us tips to prevent this problem from happening again. One theory was that the switch from so warm to so cold all at once was part of the problem. Another strongly touted by the Santa Cruz Arboretum (they had African and Australian plants that were damaged and killed so were especially interested) was that the soil was dry and the plants were not hydrated. I had an offline discussion with someone about this (Mark McDonough possibly?) and he said that was absolutely not true. That it was the opposite. Dry plants would do better with cold temperatures. Now that David has said he only waters during mild temperatures and wonders if this is one reason for his plants tolerating colder temperatures than you'd expect perhaps we can discuss this. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Mon Dec 27 11:39:56 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041227083200.0286de60@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Favorite White Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:38:33 -0800 Dear All, This is my last topic of the week. If someone else wants to continue it, that is fine with me, but after two plus years on this list of trying to come up with introductions and encourage discussion and another on a previous IBS list, I am done. We have discussed our favorite bulbs by color this year. I have found it really fascinating to read about the wide range of favorites all around the world and to discover how many of us have different perceptions about color so that the same flower could be picked for yellow or orange, red or orange, or blue or purple. Perhaps white will be a bit more straight forward. There are a lot of wonderful white bulbs to pick from and I hope for my last topic there will be a good discussion even though this continues to be a busy time of the year. Mary Sue From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Mon Dec 27 11:57:52 2004 Message-Id: <3A015C336D8DE5438CC45C4BB03D7DE4058028@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Triteleia and Brodiaea. Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:57:53 -0800 Jan, We are growing T. hendersonii but won't have bulbs available for a couple of years. We grow quite a few Triteleias and I am wondering if you could be more specific as to which varieties are you interested in? We could probably spare a few seeds of some species if you let me know what it is you are looking for. Nancy Gilbert Far West Bulb Farm -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jan v/d Berg Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 9:15 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Triteleia and Brodiaea. Hello, All I am trying to make a collection of all Triteleia. Who can help me with T. Hendersoni and other rare varieties? Happy Christmas to all Jan van den Berg Netherlands. jan@boltha.nl _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Mon Dec 27 12:14:16 2004 Message-Id: <3A015C336D8DE5438CC45C4BB03D7DE4058029@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Triteleia and Brodiaea. Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:08:39 -0000 We are growing Triteleia laxa 'Sierra Giant', also referrred to by Gerorgie Robinett as 'Dinnerplate' and the form the Robinetts dubbed 'Humboldt Star', which is a very deep cobalt blue color. The bulbs should be ready in a couple of years for those who might be interested. I surely agree that the form 'Sierra Giant' is a marvelous sight growing in the wild, as it is quite huge in comparison to other forms and is often a very pale lilac, which stands out so nicely in the shade of the oaks. We have found it growing both free standing, in deep shade at higher elvations, and growing well among grasses, in open oak woodlands in upper Fresno County. The higher elevation forms were generally lighter in color in our experience. -Nancy Gilbert -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jane McGary Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 10:43 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Triteleia and Brodiaea. Jan van den Berg asked, >I am trying to make a collection of all Triteleia. >Who can help me with T. Hendersoni and other rare varieties? The best sources are: Telos Rare Bulbs (bulbs only) and Ron Ratko Northwest Native Seeds (seeds only) I grow all the Triteleia species except the rare island species T. clementina and T. guadalupensis, and the poorly described T. lugens. I usually have bulbs of some species and forms for sale in summer. If Jan is planning to hybridize triteleias, I suggest that he get hold of the form of T. laxa informally known as 'Sierra Giant' or 'Mariposa Giant'. It is little known overseas, but its characteristic of very large size would be useful especially for cutflowers. This is not a clone, but a local variant growing especially in Mariposa County, California, and around the El Portal entrance to Yosemite National Park. When I first happened on it, I had no idea I was looking at T. laxa! It's about 3 times the size of the common T. laxa of lower-elevation fields, and has pale lavender instead of deep violet flowers. It grows in light woodland and I think in sites that have a little extra moisture in spring. Triteleias are very easy to grow from seed, flowering in the third year from sowing. Some species increase fast vegetatively, but others are slow. Most of them flower late in the bulb season, in late spring to early summer. They're best planted among leafier plants for support. The individual flowers tend to open in succession over a long period. Two commercial clones are available in the mass market: T. ixioides 'Starlight' and T. laxa 'Queen Fabiola'. The Robinett selection T. ixioides 'High Sierra' is brighter yellow than 'Starlight' but has fewer flowers in the inflorescence. The Robinett selection 'Humboldt Star' has larger flowers than 'Queen Fabiola', also deep violet, but doesn't increase as fast as the latter, at least for me. The species most likely to be widely adaptable (especially in colder regions) are T. grandiflora and T. hyacinthina, and both are quite showy when well grown. T. hyacinthina increases very fast by offsets and self-sows. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 27 12:53:45 2004 Message-Id: <41D04A9E.5F2CCB87@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: TOW - Ferraria and cold temperatures Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:47:10 -0800 Dear Mary Sue: It is an interesting point you mention regarding plants being dry or wet to survive the colder temperatures. I am of the opinion that being dry is better, the sap in the plants is then more concentrated, growth not as lush and thus has in effect, more body and able to survive the colder temperatures. This to me is logical and if I remember correctly, this was what we were taught way back in the 40's and 50's when I was a student, at the RBG Edinburgh and at the Somerset Agricultural College as well as at Wisley. Perhaps opinions have changed, but the plants have not. Cheers, John E. Bryan Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > > Dear all, > > Thanks to all of you who posted on this topic during a time of year which > can be very hectic. I am wondering if all the Ferrarias offset as much a F. > crispa. I got one Ferraria ferrariola from the BX and Joyce. It has never > bloomed and remains one corm. I started some more seed from Silverhill to > keep it company and it germinated mostly the second year instead of the > first after being left outside and dried off and in this third year none of > them are up. They may still be there however as I did not repot them. > > There were corms of Ferraria divaricartia that I received from Jim Robinett > when he asked me to rescue the bulbs he could no longer care for. There > were 12 corms, first planted in 2000. I gave half to Mendocino Coast > Botanical Gardens the next year after they had not bloomed (nor had they > increased.) I don't know if they ever bloomed for them (Lily, Kristina are > you reading this to say?), but they have not bloomed yet for me. They went > from 7 to 10 the next year and to 14 since then. That is not a huge > increase as corms grow. Following Lauw's advice I have watered them early > and some of them come up in September each year. I've grown them in the > structure that is outside, but covered on top so controlled the amount of > rainfall they got to some degree. This year they went into one of my raised > beds so I'll see if that works better. > > The question David raised intrigues me. One would expect in the greenhouse > there would be some protection from the wind that would help that might not > occur outside even if the temperatures were the same. We all experience > parts of our garden where they is some protection from other shrubs that > helps. Also in the greenhouse you'd expect there would be protection from > the harsh early morning sun which is so damaging to plants that are icy. > > The winter of 1990 described and remembered as the Arctic Freeze in > California when many of us lost a lot of tender plants had been unusually > mild and dry prior to the cold. There were a lot of people writing about > why it was so severe to give us tips to prevent this problem from happening > again. One theory was that the switch from so warm to so cold all at once > was part of the problem. Another strongly touted by the Santa Cruz > Arboretum (they had African and Australian plants that were damaged and > killed so were especially interested) was that the soil was dry and the > plants were not hydrated. I had an offline discussion with someone about > this (Mark McDonough possibly?) and he said that was absolutely not true. > That it was the opposite. Dry plants would do better with cold > temperatures. Now that David has said he only waters during mild > temperatures and wonders if this is one reason for his plants tolerating > colder temperatures than you'd expect perhaps we can discuss this. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 27 13:04:52 2004 Message-Id: <41D04D39.6E9FD2E4@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: TOW - Ferraria Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:58:17 -0800 Dear David: It would be interesting to know the temperature in the pots after a cold night, any way you can find out just how cold the soil mix was in the pots? Cheers, John E. Bryan David Victor wrote: > > Dear all, > > I was away most of last week and have only just caught up on this > topic. As Ferraria are one of the genera with which I have a love affair, > I thought that I might add a few comments, even if they are very late. > > I grow around ten collections of Ferraria, mainly ones collected by Rod and > Rachel Saunders, though some come from other sources. F. crispa flowers > regularly for me, normally around February. A strong perfume, which I find > the ladies particularly dislike. It has a smell somewhere between musk and > cat, with sweet overtones and fills the whole greenhouse. I have two > collections of F. ferrariola in bud at present and two others that I just > have as F. species. I have yet to see the latter flower. > > I grow all of my Ferraria in one litre pots. These are deep plastic pots, > with a 4 inch diameter top. They live in a cold greenhouse, as do most of > my South African bulbs, which drops to minus five Centigrade on really cold > nights. They sit on the plunge and on the cold nights I raise a canopy of > fleece over them to protect them from the worst. > > This question of temperature is an interesting one. Its been cold the last > few nights and I recorded minus three in the greenhouse. Whilst some of > the bulbs had the extra protection, I have lots of pots of Oxalis, Nerine, > Haemanthus and seedlings of Leucoryne and Tristagma on unprotected metal > staging that are undamaged. The books would suggest that such plants would > not come through this regime, yet they do year after year with me. I feel > that my practice of only watering at the start of mild periods helps the > situation. Also, day-time temperatures normally rise above freezing so that > the plants only have such cold for short periods. Any thoughts? > > Best regards, > David Victor > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Dec 27 13:40:00 2004 Message-Id: <004101c4ec43$66a4b210$8b3f2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Favorite White Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:39:28 -0000 Subject: [pbs] Favorite White Flowered Bulbs hi all Top of my list has to be Galanthus. The reginae-olgaes and peshmenii are over now having started to bloom in mid September. The spring flowerers have now starting and are the trickle before the rush. There are 13 different 'drops flowering at the moment in the garden including plicatus 'Three Ships', 'Castlegar' and elwesii 'Hayden'. My web site http://www.snowdropinfo.com has many snowdrop photos. Flowering now 4 weeks early is Colchicum hungaricum. A close third, and not a bulb, which flowers at the same time as the main snowdrop rush is Lonicera purpusii. Mark N Ireland From eagle85@flash.net Mon Dec 27 14:46:39 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Favorite White Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:43:44 -0800 As others have said, there are so many beautiful white flowers/bulbs. Two of my favorites are Amaryllis 'Mont Blanc' and Scadoxus puniceus 'alba'. Doug Westfall From btankers@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org Mon Dec 27 13:59:04 2004 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0AA42A@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Favorite White Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:00:59 -0600 Seasons greetings All: Polianthus tuberosa. The elegant white flowers, the incredible fragrance; and summer is so far away! Zantedeschia aethiopica. Calla lilies. I've never been successful with the colored flower species but the white flowered are incredible - as well as fragrant. Bless the moths (perhaps not all moths) for providing the incentive for white flowers to be incredibly fragrant. Moraea tricolor 'Album' (I think was the name I received) as seed from Bill Dyck years ago. Reliably sending up masses of white flowers in mid-winter to spring. Have some seedlings that I believe may have been 'cycled' into growing and flowering in summer in the Northern Hemisphere. Hymenocallis. Regardless of taxonomic confusion, the white flowered taxa that blooms in all of the older neighborhoods on Galveston Island, Texas. Zephyranthes drummondii. I grew up with this (one of the few) geophytic taxa on a ranch in southwestern Texas and it still brings back favorite memories as well as a nice fragrance. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org where a winter low of minus 6 degrees F and a wind chill in the minus teens sent virtually everyone indoors last week and efforts to harvest leeks, carrots and horseradish with a pickax were remarkably unsuccessful. Ground frozen solid for a good 4-5". Yes, I procrastinated too long in the northern suburbs of Chicago, Illinois. From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Mon Dec 27 14:23:03 2004 Message-Id: <3A015C336D8DE5438CC45C4BB03D7DE405802F@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Favorite White Flowers Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:23:07 -0000 Subject: Favorite White Flowers Season's Greetings To All: Of the Califronia natives, my favorite is Triteleia lilacina. It is diminutive, but it is one of those flowers that is pure magic if you take out a magnifying glass or a hand lens and peer inside. Blue anthers form a crown around hundreds of irridescent glass beads that encircle the blossom. It needs to be seen up close, in the sunshine to fully appreciate. Nancy Gilbert Grass Valley, California From cjthomp48@yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 14:31:40 2004 Message-Id: <20041227193140.50367.qmail@web52409.mail.yahoo.com> From: Corey Thompson Subject: Favorite White Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:31:40 -0800 (PST) Tops on my list of favorite white-flowered bulbs is the genus Hymenocallis. I am having a wonderful time overwintering several pot-grown evergreen species and cultivars in a bright, southern windowsill and can't wait till they send up their stalks of elegant, fragrant white flowers this coming spring or summer. The one that has bloomed for me so far, 'Tropical Giant', has seduced me forever. Next is the Eucharis cultivar called 'Christine'. While I do not know its origins, it is much more compact than regular Amazon lily and it sends up spikes of deliciously fragrant white flowers almost like clockwork every three or four months. And finally comes Neomarica gracilis. Although not really a bulb and the flowers are only partially white, I wanted to include this because it is one of the easiest and most graceful houseplants I have ever grown. I have a large 10" pot filled to the brim with this species and each and every fan is currently sending out one of those modified leaves which includes flower buds. I love the elegant shape and sweet, gentle fragrance of these flowers and the winter show gets better with each passing year. Happy New Year to all, Corey Chicago, Illinois __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From lizwat@earthlink.net Mon Dec 27 14:49:27 2004 Message-Id: <41D0682B.6040607@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: bad news - lost seeds Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:53:15 -0800 I wouldn't give up so soon. There has been a huge Christmas mailing . A letter I sent from California took just over two weeks to reach Virginia. It may still show up. Liz Hans und Babs Joschko wrote: >Hi all , >Today I have bad news for this group . >I have send a lot of seeds from me to Dell for the BX - this mail I give to >the post on 24. 11 .04 and until today Dell has nothing received these - it >is pity , because it was o lot of interesting seeds : many seeds from my >peonys and some seeds w.c. from my holidays from Corsica . >If anybody is intersted for peonyseed please contact me and I will send my >seedlist ( as attechment on a mail ) - I have still some seeds . >My hope is that when I send a little portion this makes not a problem ( I >have send earlier seeds to USA - without problems) , to send in other >countrys here in Europe is not a problem . >It is a disapointment for me that sending the seeds to Dell not has works - >it was a lot of seeds ( more then 100s ) , a lot of work and the money for >the charges is also lost . So I dont know if I send later more seeds to the >BX - if anyone has a idea - please give me a answer . >Now my best wishes for all member of this group for the NEW YEAR - and good >luck with the plants >Your >Hans > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Dec 27 15:02:53 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041227150122.01bdffe8@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Favorite White Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:02:48 -0500 I can only think of a few white-flowered bulbs that I grow here in Cincinnati. Aside from various modern tulip hybrids, there are Zephyranthes (candida, I think) and Calochortus (venustus, I think). I also have some white-flowered dutch irises. Dennis in Cincy where everything is covered in 18" of white... From khixson@nu-world.com Mon Dec 27 15:11:33 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041227103335.0266feb0@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: hardiness, cold temperatures Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:11:18 -0800 Dear members: To quote John Bryan, >It is an interesting point you mention regarding plants being dry or wet >to survive the colder temperatures. I think the situation is a little more involved than just being wet or dry--first, is the damage being caused by actual freezing--ie, are the cells of the plant being ruptured by the expansion of the water in the cells of the plant? Plants that have been dry for some time usually survive this problem better than plants that are well hydrated, because plants which have been dry have their cell sap more concentrated, which acts as "antifreeze". Also, there is less water available to rupture cell walls. If the damage is caused by a cold wind blowing over the leaves of the plants while the ground/stems of the plants are frozen and unable to transport moisture up to the leaves, a dry plant suffers more damage than one which is well hydrated. This is typical of shrubs which are "burned" by a freeze, and while it can kill, often it just looks unsightly and the plant will recover. It is usually recommended that plants be well watered prior to freezing weather. I might also mention that there have been people who manually removed all the leaves on a borderline plant, and the plant survived the winter when other plants of the same thing nearby which were not defoliated, didn't. Sometimes plants-usually shrubs again, are damaged by "barksplit", where the bark of a plant will literally split and the cambium layer will separate from the rest of the stem, and the plant-usually a shrub or tree, will look fine but will later die when the leaves transpire the moisture in the plant above the "barksplit". In my area, Rhododendron davidsonianum is notorious for suffering barksplit, often in April, long after the coldest weather of winter. In this case, planting on the north or east may make a difference. Planting facing east is the worst possible location, because the morning sun shining on the frost damage will finish splitting what might otherwise have slowly recovered. It is sometimes possible to tape barksplit--simply use tape to tightly bind the cambium layer back to the stem, and the plant may survive. I have plants here which have suffered barksplit, and it is still visible, but the plant survives. If the plant is valuable enough, a graft from below the freeze damage to above the freeze damage may save the life of the plant, if not the appearance. Other plants-in my area, Camellias and Daphne as examples, will be top-hardy, but the roots of plants grown in containers will freeze and the plant again will look fine but will later die, usually in spring just after expanding the spring flush of growth (leaves). This is the bane of nurserymen, who sell what looks like a healthy plant, which dies soon after being sold and planted by a homeowner. You can imagine what the homeowner thinks of that nurseryman. I thought it was 1988 here in Oregon, but perhaps it was 1990, that we had a long, mild fall, with virtually no freezing weather, then in early November it abruptly dropped to +18F, and hundreds of rhododendrons died. These same plants which were killed at +18F, had only the year before survived +5F in December, after a more normal fall pattern. Obviously, it isn't just the absolute temperature, but the condition of the plants themselves, which determines the temperatures they can survive. I knew one rhododendron grower who used to claim his plants were hardier than plants from other nurseries, because he used a Nearing frame (an unheated coldframe) to propagate cuttings. It is true that rooted cuttings from a coldframe/Nearing frame are better adapted to the outdoor temperatures than plants from a greenhouse, but climate adaptation is not the same as being hardier. At the end of the growing season, his plants were only as hardy as the plant itself, regardless of how it had been propagated. To tie this to bulbs, I have found that lilies in containers will freeze and die--not in December, when it is coldest, but in April, just after the current seasons' stem has started growing. A lily which may have survived +5F in December will be killed at temperatures in the upper twenties in April. People from areas where they have snow-cover often suggest that keeping the container covered and thus dry, will prevent loss, but my experience is that isn't the whole answer. Keeping them dry may help, but perhaps because it also keeps the plants dormant later in spring. Covering them may actually make the situation worse if the cover is "tight" enough that it is warmer than the surroundings. Daffodils being grown in containers will be killed by temperatures much higher than they would survive in the ground, simply because the roots are killed. I'm not sure of the exact cause, just that it happens. Jane undoubtedy has more experience than I, but bulbs in containers should be in "plunge" material, not just in a covered cold frame or bulb frame, to protect the roots. The "plunge" material is more important than the coldframe. Hardiness is a complex subject, and it is easy to misunderstand what is actually happening. Sometimes more than one thing is happening, and sorting out what effect did which damage is difficult. Ken From jdlmurray52@juno.com Mon Dec 27 15:21:12 2004 Message-Id: <20041227.121909.1504.1.jdlmurray52@juno.com> From: Jerry L Murray Subject: Favorite White Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:19:09 -0800 I will endorse the exquisitely fragrant Hesperocallis undulata - desert lily. One does not see it in nurseries or gardens. I have tried it from seed obtained from Aqua Fria Nursery with germination success, but I believe it needs to be grown indoors or in a heated greenhouse. I have seen it in Arizona's Death Valley along the road in April. The trumpet-shaped flower has a white interior with gray-backed petals. As beautiful as it is fragrant. Jerry Murray - Washington, the state From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Mon Dec 27 15:41:26 2004 Message-Id: <3A015C336D8DE5438CC45C4BB03D7DE4058031@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Favorite White Flowers Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:40:53 -0800 As I have been reading about all the members' favorite white flowers, I am reminded of how lovely it always is to discover Lilium washingtonianum growing in its native Sierra Nevada habitat. The most beautiful display I have seen is in Plumas County, California at about 4500 foot elevation where there were over fifty large plants blooming along about a mile of road in a disturbed woodland. The white trumpets rose a couple of feet above low shrubs and the fragrance was divine. We have since returned to this site on three occasions and only found one plant. We fear these lilies may have been dug up by an irresponsible gardener/collector, as they were so conspicuous and easy to take. We see this fairly often with the wild lilies- very sad. Nancy Gilbert Grass Valley, California From crinum@libero.it Mon Dec 27 16:03:58 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: bad news - lost seeds Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:03:57 +0100 May be all has not lost. In the morning I received a parcel sent from USA on 22 November! Alberto Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:29:22 +0100 Subject : [pbs] bad news - lost seeds > Hi all , > Today I have bad news for this group . > I have send a lot of seeds from me to Dell for the BX - this mail I give to > the post on 24. 11 .04 and until today Dell has nothing received these - it > is pity , because it was o lot of interesting seeds : many seeds from my > peonys and some seeds w.c. from my holidays from Corsica . > If anybody is intersted for peonyseed please contact me and I will send my > seedlist ( as attechment on a mail ) - I have still some seeds . > My hope is that when I send a little portion this makes not a problem ( I > have send earlier seeds to USA - without problems) , to send in other > countrys here in Europe is not a problem . > It is a disapointment for me that sending the seeds to Dell not has works - > it was a lot of seeds ( more then 100s ) , a lot of work and the money for > the charges is also lost . So I dont know if I send later more seeds to the > BX - if anyone has a idea - please give me a answer . > Now my best wishes for all member of this group for the NEW YEAR - and good > luck with the plants > Your > Hans > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Alberto Grossi Italy ____________________________________________________________ Regala e regalati Libero ADSL: 3 mesi gratis e navighi veloce. 1.2 Mega di musica, film, video e sport. Abbonati subito senza costi di attivazione su http://www.libero.it From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Dec 27 16:15:47 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Favorite White Flowers Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:15:22 -0600 Dear All; Before mentioning any favorites, I'd like to start a whole hearted round of cheers to Mary Sue for marshalling the efforts to keep TOW going. I can very much sympathize with the difficulty of keeping topics, introducers and introduction in line. Takes a whip, a chair and continuous begging. I hope we can still see an occasional spontaneous TOW as the spirit moves members. THANKS A TON, Mary Sue. 3 Cheers. Now - No one has yet mentioned Anemone blanda 'White Splendor'. This is the major harbinger of spring for here. I have planted sheets of this across a sloped area of the garden that meets the afternoon sun. Also early is Crocus sieberi 'Bowles White' Wish we had some better white Iris reticulatas to look forward to. the cv 'Natasha' is a weak grower and poor blooming. Among Narcissus, I like the all white 'Stainless' and the contrast of 'Raspberry Rose' rich pink and white is a standout. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Mon Dec 27 18:04:21 2004 Message-Id: <001c01c4ec68$f8753000$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Favorite White Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:08:19 -0500 Corey ... white...so plain. like a blank canvas,,, So many neat aromas from the white-flowered amaryllids, partiularly the long-tubed taxa. You've picked two favorite white flowered genera for me! Eucharis is a most intriguing winter bloomer. E. amazonica and E. formossa are in full bloom and wonderfully scented indoors or in the greenhouse. Another unidentified Eucharis from Peru just finished. the petiolate foliage is an extra bonus. Panratium must also be lumped into these favorites for me. And Hymenocallis....this one has moved up to my #1 slot, receiving more attention than most of my collection. Hym. godfreyi is in bloom now along w/ another from St.. Marks, FL, Possibly H. crassifolia. I need the mexican species to get a better knowledge of them. Ismene and Elisene are almost equally enticing, but much more difficult for me here in Florida. Luther burbank's Crinum 'white Queen' flowered last year for me and was awesome. I am working on Hipp.evansiae hybrids, which I hope to get results w/ spidery petals from cybister in three backgrounds. The first rounds w/ papilio in them too had some light colored ones that were crossed to bring out the white, one more backcross into evansiae and then they should have the white. Things like H. solandriflora/brasilianum/parodii all are attractive hipps. Off topic, we just found some Monotropa uniflora / indian pipes (acholrophyllous, white plants and flowers), neat. Kevin Preuss ----- Original Message ----- From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 27 20:10:17 2004 Message-Id: <41D0B0EC.187A822F@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: hardiness, cold temperatures Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:03:40 -0800 Dear Ken: Obviously plants that are borderline will succumb to a hard frost. But I am still of the opinion that going into cold weather dry will give the plants a better chance to survive. Thicker antifreeze as it were. Regarding 'bark split' exposed to wind-chill factor will play a part and such damage would no doubt occur in any case. noticed when warmer temperatures are experienced and the cells then rupture, dry or not when the cold was experienced. but only seen when the temperatures rise. Your remark that it is 'usually recommended' that plants go into cold weather wet, in my opinion defies logic, who recommends this? That there are many factors involved, many not understood is with out a doubt correct, but I am still of the opinion that dry is better. One is tempted to ask: If not why not? So much to learn, so little time! Cheers, John E. Bryan Kenneth Hixson wrote: > > Dear members: > To quote John Bryan, > >It is an interesting point you mention regarding plants being dry or wet > >to survive the colder temperatures. > I think the situation is a little more involved than just being wet or > dry--first, is the damage being caused by actual freezing--ie, are the cells > of the plant being ruptured by the expansion of the water in the cells of the > plant? Plants that have been dry for some time usually survive this problem > better than plants that are well hydrated, because plants which have been > dry have their cell sap more concentrated, which acts as "antifreeze". Also, > there is less water available to rupture cell walls. > If the damage is caused by a cold wind blowing over the leaves of the > plants while the ground/stems of the plants are frozen and unable to > transport moisture up to the leaves, a dry plant suffers more damage than > one which is well hydrated. This is typical of shrubs which are "burned" > by a freeze, and while it can kill, often it just looks unsightly and the plant > will recover. It is usually recommended that plants be well watered > prior to freezing weather. I might also mention that there have been people > who manually removed all the leaves on a borderline plant, and the plant > survived the winter when other plants of the same thing nearby which > were not defoliated, didn't. > Sometimes plants-usually shrubs again, are damaged by "barksplit", > where the bark of a plant will literally split and the cambium layer will > separate from the rest of the stem, and the plant-usually a shrub or tree, > will look fine but will later die when the leaves transpire the moisture in the > plant above the "barksplit". In my area, Rhododendron davidsonianum is > notorious for suffering barksplit, often in April, long after the coldest > weather > of winter. In this case, planting on the north or east may make a > difference. > Planting facing east is the worst possible location, because the morning > sun shining on the frost damage will finish splitting what might otherwise > have slowly recovered. It is sometimes possible to tape barksplit--simply > use tape to tightly bind the cambium layer back to the stem, and the plant > may survive. I have plants here which have suffered barksplit, and it is still > visible, but the plant survives. If the plant is valuable enough, a graft > from > below the freeze damage to above the freeze damage may save the life > of the plant, if not the appearance. > Other plants-in my area, Camellias and Daphne as examples, will > be top-hardy, but the roots of plants grown in containers will freeze and the > plant again will look fine but will later die, usually in spring just after > expanding the spring flush of growth (leaves). This is the bane of > nurserymen, who sell what looks like a healthy plant, which dies soon after > being sold and planted by a homeowner. You can imagine what the > homeowner thinks of that nurseryman. > I thought it was 1988 here in Oregon, but perhaps it was 1990, that > we had a long, mild fall, with virtually no freezing weather, then in early > November it abruptly dropped to +18F, and hundreds of rhododendrons died. > These same plants which were killed at +18F, had only the year before survived > +5F in December, after a more normal fall pattern. Obviously, it isn't just > the absolute temperature, but the condition of the plants themselves, which > determines the temperatures they can survive. > I knew one rhododendron grower who used to claim his plants > were hardier than plants from other nurseries, because he used a > Nearing frame (an unheated coldframe) to propagate cuttings. It is > true that rooted cuttings from a coldframe/Nearing frame are better > adapted to the outdoor temperatures than plants from a greenhouse, > but climate adaptation is not the same as being hardier. At the end > of the growing season, his plants were only as hardy as the plant itself, > regardless of how it had been propagated. > To tie this to bulbs, I have found that lilies in containers will > freeze > and die--not in December, when it is coldest, but in April, just after the > current seasons' stem has started growing. A lily which may have survived > +5F in December will be killed at temperatures in the upper twenties in > April. People from areas where they have snow-cover often suggest that > keeping the container covered and thus dry, will prevent loss, but my > experience is that isn't the whole answer. Keeping them dry may help, > but perhaps because it also keeps the plants dormant later in spring. > Covering them may actually make the situation worse if the cover is > "tight" enough that it is warmer than the surroundings. > Daffodils being grown in containers will be killed by temperatures > much higher than they would survive in the ground, simply because the > roots are killed. I'm not sure of the exact cause, just that it happens. > Jane undoubtedy has more experience than I, but bulbs in containers > should be in "plunge" material, not just in a covered cold frame or bulb > frame, to protect the roots. The "plunge" material is more important > than the coldframe. > Hardiness is a complex subject, and it is easy to misunderstand > what is actually happening. Sometimes more than one thing is happening, > and sorting out what effect did which damage is difficult. > > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Antennaria@aol.com Mon Dec 27 22:17:55 2004 Message-Id: <128.52f9f0af.2f022a56@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: hardiness, cold temperatures Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:17:42 EST Mary Sue Ittner wrote regarding moisture and plant/bulb hardiness: >I had an offline discussion with someone about >this (Mark McDonough possibly?) and he said >that was absolutely not true. I don't think it was me, although I did possibly discuss with you some advice I received about guarantying a good bud set and subsequent flowering on Magnolias. The recommendation was to provide copious watering in late summer and fall, to ensure the flower buds, which develop in late summer, have a chance to fully develop and thus are more able to withstand winter cold and dessication. In the case of Magnolias, in my limited experience with a precocious flowering hybrid (Forrest's Pink), providing good soaking waterings in late summer and fall, has indeed yielded better flowering. Kenneth Hixson khixson@nu-world.com wrote at length on the nuances of plant hardiness. Thanks Kenneth for explaining this so well. If you've gardened in two or more rather different climates, it's very interesting to see the results of comparitive plant hardiness. The biggest surprise, is finding plants that were perfectly hardy in one climate, prove to be a challenge and non-hardy in milder climates, but Kenneth gives good examples of why this can be the case. As Kenneth says "Hardiness is a complex subject". Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Dec 27 23:26:51 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Plant Shipment restrictions? Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:23:34 -0600 From the New York Times - Dec 23, 2004 Millions of Plants Caught in Dragnet for Oak Killer By BRADFORD McKEE Published: December 23, 2004 JUST in time to complicate spring planting, the federal government is preparing to issue what agriculture officials call the most sweeping restrictions on the shipment of nursery plants ever undertaken in the United States, to try to prevent the spread of a virulent disease that has killed tens of thousands of oaks and other species along the West Coast. The restrictions, expected to be issued in early January, will affect millions of plants grown in California, Oregon and Washington, about one-third of the country's nursery plant supply. They will require inspection, sampling and possibly testing of all plants that could be hosts to the pathogen, Phytophthora ramorum, the cause of sudden oak death syndrome, before shipment across state lines. The disease has been spotted in 22 states. Full article at: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/23/garden/23TREE.html -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From paige@hillkeep.ca Tue Dec 28 02:00:07 2004 Message-Id: <00d601c4ecab$0600e060$aa02a8c0@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Excellent seed list Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:00:16 -0800 Hello, all. I haven't seen a mention here of Ron Ratko's new seed list. It's wonderful, so I am cross-posting without apology. Ron collects wild seeds in western North America, mostly in higher and drier regions. His descriptions are good and his seeds germinate. This year's list contains more from California's mountains than anywhere else, but there are many treasures from all over the west. If you grow from seed and you are interested in rare bulbs, alpines and desert plants, this list is sure to pique your desire. You can request Ron's list from oreonana@mbay.net We are not in cahoots. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From khixson@nu-world.com Tue Dec 28 03:13:02 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041227235702.02675160@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Plant Shipment restrictions? Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:12:56 -0800 Dear Members: > The restrictions, expected to be issued in early January, will affect > millions of plants grown in California, Oregon and Washington, about > one-third of the country's nursery plant supply. An addendum. The information published here in Oregon is that inspections done before issuing 2004 nursery licenses, or during 2004 in licensed nurseries, will be honored in 2005. Many of the larger nurseries which ship out of state have already been specifically inspected. I don't understand exactly what is done, but apparently the inspections will target a specific DNA sequence of the fungus--if found, the shipment MAY be contaminated and will have to be more thoroughly inspected. If the specific DNA sequence is not found, the plants are assumed to be uncontaminated. Oregon has a webpage about sudden oak death, as it has been serving as a clearinghouse for information about sudden oak death. I don't have the URL, but a websearch should turn it up. "Sudden Oak Death" affects many plants, not just oaks. As far as I know it doesn't affect bulbs, but it could be present in peatmoss used as shipping/packing material. It is believed it may have been present on the pacific coast for many years without causing damage, but has somehow suddenly become virulent-why is the subject of much discussion. Ken From msittner@mcn.org Tue Dec 28 10:37:37 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041228073630.0276e850@mail.mcn.org> From: Kenneth Hixson (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Hardiness Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:36:41 -0800 Dear members: I apologize--obviously I wasn't clear. >I'm still not sure whether tender bulbs that are in growth would do best >being watered before you know a cold period is coming or kept dry. "Tender" is a relative term--just as the lilies could tolerate being frozen-- or flooded--while dormant, they do not tolerate being frozen when making new growth and are "tender" when doing so. A month earlier they weren't tender, and a month later they probably wouldn't be. Bulbs being watered or not being watered is probably irrelevant, except for one thing: At least in some areas, irrigation systems are sometimes used to provide frost protection. Ice may freeze on plants from the irrigation water, but the plants, even if in flower, may survive several degrees below freezing. Probably no more than ten degrees (F), and only for a few hours. An extended freeze will cause damage even when the plants are encased in ice--but the damage will be from cell rupture, not "burning" from moisture loss from leaves. One cause of damage was prevented, but not another, and the plants were damaged. Thus, whether or not being watered has an effect on a "tender" plant depends on circumstances, including the timing of watering. Plants not exposed to sudden warming by morning sunlight are less likely to be damaged than plants which are exposed. Borderline tender plants will often be successful in a north or west exposure, while the same plants in an eastern exposure will be killed, even if only a few feet apart. >It is very possible that it is different for shrubs, trees, perennials, >and bulbs. By one definition, all of the above are perennials. They have different ways of dealing with inclement weather, not only freezing, but extended drought, etc. Some bulbs try to evade or mitigate the effects of freezing, or drought, by growing at another season of the year. Or they become dormant, even though still leafed out, etc. Each plant has a unique way of dealing with unfavorable conditions, and different ways at different times during its' growth cycle. There are supposedly some algae which can survive and grow within polar ice caps. Whether a particular plant can deal with a particular stress depends on its particular growth condition at the specific stage of growth. About all you really can say is, a "tender" plant will be---tender, because that is what you have defined it. You probably defined it as "tender" because you knew it would not survive normal conditions in your area, even if you do not really understand exactly why. Again, I apologize for not being clear, but there are many things happening in plants which we humans do not see or understand, and can only say "This is what happened under these particular conditions, and if they keep happening, I assume they probably will happen in the future under similiar conditions". Being "tender" is one such condition. Ken From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 12:38:05 2004 Message-Id: <41D1986E.6EC9A195@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Hardiness Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:31:26 -0800 Dear Ken; I would point out that lilies when dormant, (and I doubt if there is in fact any time when a bulbs is completely 'dormant', more correctly perhaps "suspended growth", as changes and certain activities continue inside the bulb, exactly what these are are not all known but we do know such take place, hence lilies, as an example need a period of cold storage (rest) and will not perform well if not given a certain period of cold storage, about 6-8 weeks, most evident if they are to be 'forced') and exposed to freezing, can be killed. Bulbs in cold storage in boxes and covered with wood shavings, were killed when they became frozen due to being too near the cooling unit, being placed in the location by mistake, i.e. too close to the cooling unit. This is a fact for which I can vouch. All types were killed, orientals, trumpets, species and Asiatic. In the ground such does not happen, possibly because the soil, around the bulb, if it becomes frozen, acts then as an insulator. Bulbs are bulbs in order to overcome, in the wild, climatic conditions not favorable to active growth. I discuss this at length in Chapter 1 of my book BULBS, the title being Diversity, distribution and adaptation of bulbs. Cheers, John E. Bryan "Kenneth Hixson (by way of Mary Sue Ittner )" wrote: > > Dear members: > I apologize--obviously I wasn't clear. > > >I'm still not sure whether tender bulbs that are in growth would do best > >being watered before you know a cold period is coming or kept dry. > "Tender" is a relative term--just as the lilies could tolerate > being frozen-- > or flooded--while dormant, they do not tolerate being frozen when making > new growth and are "tender" when doing so. A month earlier they weren't > tender, and a month later they probably wouldn't be. Bulbs being watered or > not being watered is probably irrelevant, except for one thing: At least > in some > areas, irrigation systems are sometimes used to provide frost protection. > Ice may freeze on plants from the irrigation water, but the plants, even if in > flower, may survive several degrees below freezing. Probably no more than > ten degrees (F), and only for a few hours. An extended freeze will cause > damage even when the plants are encased in ice--but the damage will be > from cell rupture, not "burning" from moisture loss from leaves. One cause > of damage was prevented, but not another, and the plants were damaged. > Thus, whether or not being watered has an effect on a "tender" plant > depends on circumstances, including the timing of watering. > Plants not exposed to sudden warming by morning sunlight are > less likely to be damaged than plants which are exposed. Borderline > tender plants will often be successful in a north or west exposure, while > the same plants in an eastern exposure will be killed, even if only a few > feet apart. > > >It is very possible that it is different for shrubs, trees, perennials, > >and bulbs. > > By one definition, all of the above are perennials. They have > different > ways of dealing with inclement weather, not only freezing, but extended > drought, etc. Some bulbs try to evade or mitigate the effects of freezing, > or drought, by growing at another season of the year. Or they become > dormant, even though still leafed out, etc. Each plant has a unique way of > dealing with unfavorable conditions, and different ways at different times > during its' growth cycle. There are supposedly some algae which can > survive and grow within polar ice caps. Whether a particular plant can deal > with a particular stress depends on its particular growth condition at the > specific stage of growth. > About all you really can say is, a "tender" plant will be---tender, > because that is what you have defined it. You probably defined it as > "tender" because you knew it would not survive normal conditions in > your area, even if you do not really understand exactly why. > > Again, I apologize for not being clear, but there are many things > happening in plants which we humans do not see or understand, > and can only say "This is what happened under these particular conditions, > and if they keep happening, I assume they probably will happen in the > future under similiar conditions". Being "tender" is one such condition. > > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From davidxvictor-0GzqtAoCvkeEjnO87dq2zKWsRJ+rKKH@mailblocks.com Tue Dec 28 13:10:37 2004 Message-Id: From: David Victor Subject: TOW Ferraria Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:57:56 +0000 >John Bryan wrote > >It would be interesting to know the temperature in the pots after a cold >night, any way you can find out just how cold the soil mix was in the >pots? Cheers, John E. Bryan I can't add much more than I wrote before, as I don't put probes into pots, I merely record highs/lows over 24 hour periods. Over the last week or so I have recorded minus three on two nights and minus four on one - external temperatures were down to minus seven for five or six hours on one night, with winds of 10-15 mph (I live on a hill and the greenhouse is reasonably exposed. The greenhouse itself is a 10m long structure, with metre high benching. As I said before, most of the bulbs I grow in it are in one litre pots, which sit on the plunge. Composts are soil based, with added grit. There are a mixture of summer, winter and evergreen bulbs, nearly all in it are from South Africa and South America. Many of them do sit in areas that have a second covering of horticultural fleece, but many are in the open on metal staging. I do not water at all during cold periods, but try to give them a good soaking as soon as a mild period arises. Its starting to warm up again tomorrow, so it will be watering day. Hope that helps. Best regards, David Victor From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 13:32:26 2004 Message-Id: <41D1A52D.1EA1FC5@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: TOW Ferraria Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:25:49 -0800 Thanks David. This question of temperature in pots is interesting as I often wonder if different soil mixes are warmer than others and if such should be taken into account when preparing soil mixes. I do not know if anything has been written about this subject. It might have a bearing on adaptation of mixes for colder climates a subject that is perhaps worth thinking about, as would the best containers to use, terra-cotta, versus plastic etc. Cheers, John E. Bryan David Victor wrote: > > >John Bryan wrote > > > >It would be interesting to know the temperature in the pots after a cold > >night, any way you can find out just how cold the soil mix was in the > >pots? Cheers, John E. Bryan > > I can't add much more than I wrote before, as I don't put probes into pots, > I merely record highs/lows over 24 hour periods. Over the last week or so > I have recorded minus three on two nights and minus four on one - external > temperatures were down to minus seven for five or six hours on one night, > with winds of 10-15 mph (I live on a hill and the greenhouse is reasonably > exposed. The greenhouse itself is a 10m long structure, with metre high > benching. As I said before, most of the bulbs I grow in it are in one > litre pots, which sit on the plunge. Composts are soil based, with added > grit. There are a mixture of summer, winter and evergreen bulbs, nearly > all in it are from South Africa and South America. Many of them do sit in > areas that have a second covering of horticultural fleece, but many are in > the open on metal staging. > > I do not water at all during cold periods, but try to give them a good > soaking as soon as a mild period arises. Its starting to warm up again > tomorrow, so it will be watering day. > > Hope that helps. > > Best regards, > David Victor > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields@indy.net Tue Dec 28 14:53:05 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041228142817.00b07618@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hardiness Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:53:02 -0500 Dear Ken, John, and all, Ken is generally right, we don't know what makes some plants hardy to cold weather and others tender. At least in many cases. It isn't true in all cases. The physiology of a bulb or any plant changes when it switches from active growth to a resting phase. Bulbs that have to survive cold weather are thought to convert much of their stored starch to sugars (glucose, fructose, sucrose) with the onset of cooler temperatures or shorter days. Starch is insoluble and does not act as an anti-freeze. Soluble sugars like glucose, fructose, sucrose, and perhaps glycerol are effective anti-freeze agents. It makes good sense. Plants that can prepare for winter in an orderly way, can survive the cold. Plants caught unprepared by unseasonable freezes are often killed. Tender plants can not always prepare for cold weather, even when the progression to winter weather is normal, as we all know. The fascinating ones are those that "ought" not be able to survive (so far as we know) but that then do, at least in some microclimates. There are reports describing some of the changes that have been found in some types of bulbs when they prepare for cold weather. See "The Physiology of Flower Bulbs," by August De Hertogh and Marcel Le Nard, Elsevier Science Publishers, Amsterdam (1993), for instance. When plants go back into active growth, the sugars are either used up or reconverted to starch. A perfectly hardy plant like a dormant daylily can be killed when in active growth by a couple days of sub-freezing temperatures. One winter, I had numerous trays of young daylily seedlings growing in the greenhouse in January. We had a power outage, the temperatures went well below freezing inside the greenhouse for several hours, and every single daylily seedling died. Plant hormones that lead a plant to dormancy or to prepare itself to survive freezing temperatures include abscisic acid and ethylene. Plant hormones that waken plants from dormancy to active growth include the gibberellins and auxins. Abscisic acid and gibberellins are natural antagonists in regulating the physiology of plants. Abscisic acid prepares the plant for stress; gibberellins prepare the plant to grow. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana, where any sensible plants are far below ground and fast asleep right now. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Tue Dec 28 15:07:18 2004 Message-Id: <20041228200718.15880.qmail@web50108.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: White Flowers Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:07:18 -0800 (PST) Well, there are so many. I use a lot of them when I'm doing floral designs for clients here in LA/ Beverly Hills area. Callas simple common and yet one of the most elegant flowers out there. Hippeastrum, Dutch hybrids are not on the top of my list except for floral design work. In the garden, a huge bed of the older varieties still is a show stopper in full bloom. I'm hopefully getting parodii seeds (by the thousands) in very soon. That will replace any new garden installations when they are big enough. Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' - stunning is all that I can say. Lilies, any of them, Casablanca, White Stargazers, all the spp. etc. I plant them in masses each year. More is never enough (well, for me at least) Hymenocallis, I have to agree that they are quite unusual and really a great focal point when in bloom. Amaryllis bell. any of several white ones from Hathor to the mix we all got from Les Hannibal years ago. People notice them because we are used to seeing the common pink ones. I wish I could say Eucharis but since I have never been able to get it to bloom or even grow, I can't include it. Narcissus 'Mount Hood' and 'Thalia' are perpetual repeaters in OH and have increased over the years to form nice colonies as apposed to many of the other yellow "heirloom" or "naturalizing" varieties. Crinum pedunculatum. It is my favorite Crinum overall. I love the form of the plant and the regal spidery flowers. The fragrance is also purty darn nice. Tulipa 'Maureen' is the best long stem white tulip. It is really regal in the garden and looks great all by itself in a clear glass vase. I just planted 500 fall of '03 so we will see what they do next spring. They were in a pretty well drained soil that gets fairly dry during summer. Time will tell. I'm sure there are a few but I can't think of any at the moment. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 16:56:46 2004 Message-Id: <41D1D510.21757DA7@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Hardiness Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:50:08 -0800 Dear Jim: thanks for your message, most interesting. All the best to you and yours in 2005. Cheers, John e. Bryan "J.E. Shields" wrote: > > Dear Ken, John, and all, > > Ken is generally right, we don't know what makes some plants hardy to cold > weather and others tender. At least in many cases. It isn't true in all > cases. > > The physiology of a bulb or any plant changes when it switches from active > growth to a resting phase. Bulbs that have to survive cold weather are > thought to convert much of their stored starch to sugars (glucose, > fructose, sucrose) with the onset of cooler temperatures or shorter > days. Starch is insoluble and does not act as an anti-freeze. Soluble > sugars like glucose, fructose, sucrose, and perhaps glycerol are effective > anti-freeze agents. It makes good sense. Plants that can prepare for > winter in an orderly way, can survive the cold. Plants caught unprepared > by unseasonable freezes are often killed. > > Tender plants can not always prepare for cold weather, even when the > progression to winter weather is normal, as we all know. The fascinating > ones are those that "ought" not be able to survive (so far as we know) but > that then do, at least in some microclimates. > > There are reports describing some of the changes that have been found in > some types of bulbs when they prepare for cold weather. See "The > Physiology of Flower Bulbs," by August De Hertogh and Marcel Le Nard, > Elsevier Science Publishers, Amsterdam (1993), for instance. > > When plants go back into active growth, the sugars are either used up or > reconverted to starch. A perfectly hardy plant like a dormant daylily can > be killed when in active growth by a couple days of sub-freezing > temperatures. One winter, I had numerous trays of young daylily seedlings > growing in the greenhouse in January. We had a power outage, the > temperatures went well below freezing inside the greenhouse for several > hours, and every single daylily seedling died. > > Plant hormones that lead a plant to dormancy or to prepare itself to > survive freezing temperatures include abscisic acid and ethylene. Plant > hormones that waken plants from dormancy to active growth include the > gibberellins and auxins. Abscisic acid and gibberellins are natural > antagonists in regulating the physiology of plants. Abscisic acid prepares > the plant for stress; gibberellins prepare the plant to grow. > > Regards, > Jim Shields > in central Indiana, where any sensible plants are far below ground and fast > asleep right now. > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ConroeJoe@aol.com Tue Dec 28 18:12:06 2004 Message-Id: <1a7.2e05e177.2f03423f@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: pbs Digest, hardiness, cold temperatures Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:11:59 EST John Bryan > Obviously plants that are borderline will succumb to a hard frost. But I > am still of the opinion that going into cold weather dry will give the > plants a better chance to survive. Thicker antifreeze as it were. > Hi, It was interesting to see the leaves of my Nerine collapse due to cold (ca. 23 F). They have straightened out and are upright again and there is no apparent damage. I interpret the collapsing as due to a mechanism the is an emergency response to cold. The loss of moisture in the leaves would indeed increase osmolality and would also cause the leaves to collapse. The increase in solute concentration could easily protect plants from cold damage, but I cannot be sure this is what happened without further experimentation. Many cacti from cold winter areas (e.g., Rocky Mountain states) shrivel up in preparation for winter--they can loose so much water that some columnar types (6-8 inches tall plants) can appear to shrink into the soil. Also, several species of Opuntia loose so much water in winter that their pads look like big green prunes. The link below shows O. humifusa all ready for winter, the plants actually shrivel and collapse onto the soil surface. However, other Opuntia survive zone 6-7 temperatures without shriveling. I don't know if they loose moisture or not, but they don't appear to. Such plants as O. dulcis or O. phaecantha can take zero F (-20 C) in stride. Many woody plants are known to prepare for winter by reducing the water content of their cells; another way to say this is that they increase the concentration of solutes in their cells. See the link below, it discusses dehydration as a mechanism to survive very cold weather. I have not found scientific documentation of "intentional" water loss as a mechanism to protect bulbous plants from cold--but other plants use such a mechanism, and I think that is what my Nerine bulbs did. LINK: O. humifusa ready for winter http://spectrum.troyst.edu/~diamond/Ecology1/pics/opuntia.jpg LINK: Woody plants and cold weather http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/1996/3-1-1996/brr.html From tony@plantdelights.com Wed Dec 29 07:29:32 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20041229072930.013e1878@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: pbs Digest, hardiness, cold temperatures Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 07:29:30 -0500 Joe, Ken, John, etal: I think we might be talking about the same thing. Most plants going into winter need to be hydrated. This does not equate to having moist soil or precipitation. A classic example was winter 2003/4 when large numbers of reliably hardy trees in the midwest died during the winter. Their fall had been abnormally dry and the plants were simply not hydrated. All of these trees had experienced much colder temperatures in earlier decades but were well-hydrated. The best example of dry winter assisting in survival can be seen at the Denver Botanic garden Zone 5/6, where they can grow bulbs and agaves outdoors which are not hardy in our warmer Zone 7b, but wet cold winters. Additionally, hydration in bulbs and agaves is quite different than hydration in shrubs and trees. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 29 12:10:27 2004 Message-Id: <41D2E36F.D390464A@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Hydration: Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:03:43 -0800 Dear Tony: Thanks for your thoughts, most interesting. In your message, you say "Hydration in bulbs and agaves is quite different than in shrubs and trees". Could you elaborate on this a little? Re the trees that got clobbered, in a great cold snap here, some years ago now, some trees were hit hard while others of the same species were not damaged at all, even though in the same area. This was because of the wind chill factor and those protected a little were the ones that survived. I feel wind-chill is often ignored when such things happen and it should not be. Do you think the composition of soil mixes can be regulated to provide more protection to plants in pots? Cheers, John E. Bryan From jglatt@ptd.net Wed Dec 29 12:54:32 2004 Message-Id: <000001c4edcf$e5cac1a0$0c9a32d1@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Cold Weather and Crown Imperials Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:55:59 -0500 ConroeJoe wrote: It was interesting to see the leaves of my Nerine collapse due to cold (ca. 23 F). They have straightened out and are upright again and there is no apparent damage. I have Fritillaria imperialis planted on what is somewhat of a wet slope. They seem happy, in the sense that they come back year after year, increasing modestly. (Though let's see what next spring provides, as last summer was extremely wet.) Early each spring, with their growth close to a meter high - and sometimes they're far enough along to have flower buds - we'll have a chilly night. The stems of these crown imperials slump to the ground. The following day warms up, and the crown imperials hoist themselves erect again. This can happen two or three times, sometimes more. As ConroeJoe reports about his nerines' foliage, this does not seem to cause any damage. Remarkable. Judy in New Jersey where we've made it up above the freezing point today, to a torrid 37.8° Fahrenheit From davidxvictor-0sJKuAhS/keENoD3Z52HHeBSA7f5Q2m@mailblocks.com Wed Dec 29 13:40:50 2004 Message-Id: From: David Victor Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 23, Issue 30 Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:40:30 +0000 > > >John Bryan wrote > > >as would the best containers to use, terra-cotta, versus plastic >etc. Cheers, John E. Bryan Dear John, In the cases I was citing, the bulbs are all growing in 1 litre, plastic pots. As it happens, I do grow a number in some hand made terra-cotta pots, which are between 2 and 3 litre and 10 inches deep - they were specially made for me for this purpose, so that I can provide longish root runs for Amaryllids. I don't see any difference in cold performance between plastic and terra-cotta. I should add that the bulbs I had in mind in this discussion are all in active growth, not dormant. The Nerine and Oxalis have just finished flowering, the Ferraria and Hippeastrum are just coming into flower, apparently without any problems. Best regards, David Victor From msittner@mcn.org Thu Dec 30 00:35:29 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20041229202619.02cb50b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Favorite White Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:45:17 -0800 Dear all, I was surprised at how long my list was getting when I started thinking of all the white flowered bulbs I grow and like. I was reminded of Joyce Miller's statement in the PBS membership booklet, "never ask a mother which child is her favorite" and the comment someone made about the one in bloom being the favorite at the moment. I came up with 15 genera and a lot more taxa. I will try to limit myself a bit. Calochortus has to get my vote as a genus and I am unable to limit it to one species when albus, tolmiei, umbellatus are in the running along with some of those exquisitely marked Mariposas: venustus, vestae, superbus and wonderfully hairy umpaquaensis. I agree with Nancy that Triteleia lilacina is wonderful. It is probably my favorite Triteleia. I love Erythronium californicum. I don't think that is just because it took so long from seed to bloom and it is my first Erythronium to bloom from many different seed lots although that could be part of it. The leaves are wonderful and the flowers intricately beautiful too. Going on what is in bloom now catching my eye I'd have to add Massonia pustulata, a form with really pustulate leaves and long stamens, and Oxalis versicolor which on a warm day is such a bright statement and on a cooler day has those wonderful red markings as it is all curled up. I've added some current pictures of my Massonia to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Massonia And replaced a picture of the red markings from last year with a new one taken recently of Oxalis versicolor: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalis I never thought I'd be nominating a rain lily and a common one at that, but Zephyranthes candida is hard to beat with masses of bloom that goes on for months. Honorable mention goes to some of the white Lachenalias like L. orthopetala, to Moraea atropunctata, Onixotis stricta, Spiloxene capensis and Allium hyalinum. There are some great white Crocuses and Narcissus too. Mary Sue From tony@plantdelights.com Thu Dec 30 09:26:39 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20041230092635.003dd008@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Hydration: Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:26:35 -0500 John: Winter damage is quite a can of worms to open. Even nutrition and proper pH are factors in winter hardiness since they affect the electrical conductivity of a plants cell wall. A weak electrical charge in plant cells opens the plant to many types of damage in addition to cold. Plants do not feel a wind chill factor...this was a formula to describe the temperatures that humans "feel" on their skin. As Ken pointed out, wind and sun can desicate an evergreen plant when it causes water to evaporate from the leaves (possibly stems) while the roots are frozen and cannot take up water. Evergreens not exposed to wind or sun when the roots are frozen would be less likely to desicate. I don't have knowledge of containerized soils making a difference in potted plant hardiness. It is well documented that plant roots are far less hardy than bulbs or crowns. We usually figure that plants are about 25-30 degrees F less hardy when container grown. Some folks have developed insulated containers to avoid this problem. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Thu Dec 30 12:03:02 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Clivia conference to Forum Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:02:20 -0800 Dear all, As you may know, the next International Clivia Symposium will be held at the Huntington in Southern CA over Easter weekend in 2005 (last weekend in March). Anyone planning on attending, will you please email me privately? I need a reporter to send me a few notes on the symposium for our newsletter this coming summer. Thank you. Please email me at: CATHYCRAIGEA@HOTMAIL.COM Cathy Craig EA From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Thu Dec 30 12:07:03 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Garden Humor wanted Forum Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:06:04 -0800 Dear all, I am putting together the next newsletter. Will you please all check your newspapers (paper or email), magazines, or even stories of your own or your associates. I am looking for a few paragraphs that could be put into the newsletter under GARDEN HUMOR. Email them to me at: CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com or you can clip them and mail to me at: Cathy Craig EA, 630-A So El Camino Real, San Clemente, CA, 92672. You can send them any time, all year. I'd like to put one into each newsletter. Thank you for your help! Cathy Craig EA From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 30 13:16:53 2004 Message-Id: <41D44485.C6AEAF3C@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: hydration Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:10:13 -0800 Dear Tony: Thank you for your message. While wind chill may have been for humans, I am of the opinion that such does have an effect on plants. If not I can not fathom the effect on plants of the same species, in the same areas, where some were damaged others not. It was a logical explanation, but perhaps just the fact that there was some protection, (out of the wind) did make a difference. Regarding the roots of plants being less hardy and likely to be more easily damaged by cold, has anyone thought of a 'sleeve' to put around pots? An insulating cover, if you will. Perhaps lining the inside of a container with some sort of insulation may be an advantage in SOME cases. Much like plunging the pot, but less work! Great to think about such things, good for the mind and the more we think about these type of things the more likely we are to come up with practical solutions. Cheers and again thanks and every good wish for 2005! John E. Bryan From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 30 13:23:33 2004 Message-Id: <41D44614.2C8682F1@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Pots Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:16:52 -0800 Dear David Victor, Thanks for your message, it is hard to think plastic and terra-cotta provide the same protection etc., as there is 'air' in the terra cotta, can absorb moisture etc., I would have suspected a difference, this to include retaining warmth etc.. Best wishes to you and all bulb lovers in the coming year. Cheers, John E. Bryan From MMiller192@aol.com Thu Dec 30 13:31:46 2004 Message-Id: <7a.69bca212.2f05a38c@aol.com> From: MMiller192@aol.com Subject: hydration Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:31:40 EST In a message dated 12/30/2004 11:17:05 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, johnbryan@worldnet.att.net writes: While wind chill may have been for humans, I am of the opinion that such does have an effect on plants. If not I can not fathom the effect on plants of the same species, in the same areas, where some were damaged others not. It was a logical explanation, but perhaps just the fact that there was some protection, (out of the wind) did make a difference. I remember when I took plant physiology 25 years ago one of the things that we learned to do was calculate the boundary layer of undisturbed air at the surface of a leaf at different wind speeds. The layer is thinner at higher wind speed. The boundary layer of undisturbed air slows the transport of water vapor, other gases, and heat. I would think that wind chill is also related to the thickness of the boundary layer. Michael From totototo@pacificcoast.net Thu Dec 30 14:20:18 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Hardiness Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:23:52 -8 On 28 Dec 04 at 9:31, John Bryan wrote: > ...Bulbs in cold storage in boxes and covered with wood shavings, > were killed when they became frozen due to being too near the > cooling unit, being placed in the location by mistake, i.e. too > close to the cooling unit. This is a fact for which I can vouch. > All types were killed, orientals, trumpets, species and Asiatic. In > the ground such does not happen, possibly because the soil, around > the bulb, if it becomes frozen, acts then as an insulator... The earth itself is a source of heat, and a bulb at some depth in the soil is simply at a higher temperature than one at a shallower depth. It's for this reason that sunken coldframes and even greenhouses have some heat budget advantages over those perched on the ground. Likewise, even above ground, unheated coldframes and greenhouses offer some protection from cold weather simply because they slow down heat loss from the pots inside to the environment. Also, pots on a raised bench are much more prone to freezing damage than the same pots placed on the ground: simple thermal contact makes the difference in this case. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From BBCNURSERY@aol.com Thu Dec 30 14:49:35 2004 Message-Id: <85.1dfd2d0d.2f05b5cd@aol.com> From: BBCNURSERY@aol.com Subject: New Member Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:49:33 EST I would like to introduce myself. My name is Greig Warner. Besides growing many types of bulbs we grow many orchids, including the "bulbous types" pleione and Australian terrestrials including Pterostylis, Diuris, Thelymitras, etc. My problem is that I can no longer get coarse peat moss, which I find virtually irreplaceable in potting mixes. Does anyone know of a current source for this product or a reasonable substitute? Regards, Greig Warner _bbcnursery@aol.com_ (mailto:bbcnursery@aol.com) Vancouver, WA where we have yet to get a frost, and I still have my guavas outside. From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Dec 30 17:10:06 2004 Message-Id: <41D47CBB.6070205@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: New Member Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:10:03 -0500 Greig; Have you tried coir? Arnold New Jersey From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Thu Dec 30 19:06:02 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Newsletters out Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:05:34 -0800 Hi all, All the US members' newsletters went out today, west coast should get them tomorrow, western states Saturday, others about Monday. All went out first class mail with metered postage so that will save a day. Int'l members' out Friday or Saturday, AIRMAIL. I am short two or three addresses for US members but will see if I can find those tomorrow. Enjoy! Cathy Craig EA From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 30 20:03:13 2004 Message-Id: <41D4A3C0.EC564F5B@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Wind Chill Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:56:32 -0800 Dear Michael Miller, Thanks for your message. You have the advantage over me as it was some 50 years ago that I was at the R.B.G. Edinburgh, and you jolted my memory regarding things! I almost said how soon we forget, but 50 years is a while! So perhaps there is a reason for forgetting such things. Now I remember why pines have sunken stomata and a host of other such adaptations of plants all contributing to them being able to withstand adverse conditions, Thanks, I needed that! Cheers and good wishes for 2005. Here in California we are getting enough rain to satisfy us for a while, yet more is on the way. John E. Bryan From ConroeJoe@aol.com Thu Dec 30 20:20:41 2004 Message-Id: <146.3b5c7243.2f060362@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: winter, summer and South Africa seedlings Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:20:34 EST Hi, Temperatures have warmed up a bit, days 70-75 F (22.5 C), and nights around 50-62 F (ca. 15 C). My South African winter-type bulbs are happy, and the same for winter-type germinating seeds. I hope the seedlings will grow well and gain mass, so that when I put them away for a few summer months they will have enough reserves. I do have some 6-10 month-old seedlings of summer growers (South African), and (I've been letting them grow this winter by giving 15-hour days inside under lights. They don't know it is winter. However, they enjoy the warm days and, as seedlings, don't seem to worry about the day length. I'm wondering if winter-growing plants from don't prefer Spring and Fall here, as do some summer growers from high altitudes. Perhaps they don't care about day length so much as temperature, humidity, and soil wetness. Time will tell; I need to grow more and experiment more. Cordially, Conroe Joe Forecast is for 61 F tonight and 76 F tomorrow. Rain is possible and humidity is high. From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Fri Dec 31 10:10:55 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Newsletters Update Members Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 07:09:27 -0800 Hi all, All US (except a couple) went out yesterday first class. All Int'l members' newsletters go out today Air Mail. Thanks for your patience. Please note in your newsletter on Page 2 under Editorial the BONUS for all members. Usually your membership renewal date is on the label. I did not manage this with the current issue, but will get those dates onto the labels with the next issue in January. Cathy Craig EA