From Antennaria@aol.com Tue Jul 1 00:06:57 2003 Message-Id: <117.25d6f13f.2c3262da@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Tulbaghia Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:06:50 EDT Hi PBS'rs, I just created a PBS wiki page for the South African genus Tulbaghia at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tulbaghia I started out by posting photos of two varieties; recent additions to my collection of these fascinatingly modest plants. There are two photos of T. leucantha, with very small whitish blooms and protruding yellow coronas. There are also two photos of a richly perfumed Tulbaghia species (aff. comminsii, or a hybrid of same), with palest of pastel pink flowers, flowering all of June and continuing without abatement in July. Also coming into full flower, is Tulbaghia galpinii, perhaps the smallest of the genus. The blooms are tiny, greenish-white in coloration, sometimes tinged ever so slightly pinkish, held on stems a mere 2-5" above filiform grassy foliage. Despite their tiny size, the flowers are sweetly fragrant. For those who admire small and inconspicuous bulbous plants, this is IT!. Very easy to grow if kept frost-free. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From meenglis@cts.com Tue Jul 1 00:27:54 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20030630212006.00bb8328@mailbox2.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Calochortus luteus + cultivar 'Golden Orb' Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:23:14 -0700 Mark: These are native where I live and have been lovely for 2-3 weeks with some still coming. They grow throughout the chaparral, and seem to tuck themselves into semi-shaded areas, although they will also grow in full sun. They are really showy this year because of our lovely rainy season, and are about as tall as yours. In dry years they are more sparse and a little shorter. At 11:44 AM 6/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I'm surprised by the height, with large and brilliant yellow flowers on stems >24"-30" tall (60-75 cm). I grow bulbs that require summer dryness at the >base of shrubs and small trees, which has proven to be a good solution for a >number of bulbs, so I hope that this technique might deliver a long term >solution >towards growing these beauties. Marguerite English - Gardening with bulbs and perennials at 3500 feet in the mountains of southern California. From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Tue Jul 1 10:56:36 2003 Message-Id: <001601c33fe0$f2479eb0$03d6fc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Lilium pitkinense Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:56:25 -0700 Hi Mary Sue and All: Lilium pitkinense is often sold as L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum. It has been sold locally by the California Native Plant Society under that name. It is easy to propagate vegetatively since it has an unusual stoloniferous growth, but because of this - beware!!! The plants I purchased some years ago from CNPS were virused, and I have seen others that show signs of virus. The Berkeley Botanical Garden and the Tilden Park Botanical Garden usually sells seed every year. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 8:43 PM Subject: [pbs] Additions to the Wiki > Dear All, > > Last night we took another picture of Chlorogalum which better illustrates > how it looks when the flowers are open. It is still hard to photograph, but > you get the idea. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Chlorogalum_pomeridianum.jpg > > Today I also added text to the Lilium wiki page and pictures of Lilium > columbianum which we saw along the road in large numbers on our trip last > week (north of Eureka). These were much more orange than the one pictured > already on the wiki. Also my Lilium pitkinense is blooming for the first > time so added a picture of it. There is only one flower. This is a very > rare lily known from only two spots in the wild. Most of its habitat is > gone. I bought one at a native nursery several years ago and this is the > first bloom. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lilium > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 1 11:16:42 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030701080159.00bbe890@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Lilium pitkinense Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:16:16 -0700 Dear Diana, I got my plant from CalFlora Nursery and it looks healthy. I also have L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum from you in a giant pot and it is blooming now too. Jane told me I should put it in the ground but I'm afraid it wouldn't get enough water there as my soil is very dry in summer and it is unlikely I can provide a marsh as it will only encourage my Redwoods. Can you tell us how you propagate it vegetatively? My regular Lilium pardalinum produces numerous offsets so that soon you have a whole pot full. I still have just the one of the L. p. giganteum and the L. pitkinense isn't increasing either. If in the ground would that change? I've looked over the notes from Diane Whitehead and have done scale propagation, but this isn't what you are talking about obviously. Mary Sue From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Tue Jul 1 11:48:41 2003 Message-Id: <001301c33fe8$36b9e1a0$8ff1fc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: L. pitkinense Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:48:26 -0700 Hi Mary Sue: The growth is described as "rhizomatous", but my plants would form densely clustered masses around the main plant stem, all covered in scales. They could be separated by cutting into chunks. They could not be pulled apart, and I would not have described this as "rhizomatous", but I don't know how to describe this kind of growth. After a couple of years there would be a very large very lumpy mass. My plants did not show any sign of virus the first two or three years, so they could have acquired it in my care or could have been virused to start out with. The plants CNPS here (Humboldt County) are selling now are virused. There is no such thing as L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum (although CNPS still calls it that), and the USDA and Fish & Game both say it is L. pitkinense. My plants were destroyed. Even though I live in a great area for lilies ( L. columbianum, L. kelloggii, L. rubescens, L. washingtonianum, L. maritimum, L. occidentale, L. wigginsii, L. bolanderi, L. pardalinum all grow fairly locally) I have veered away from growing them because of the risk of virus infection. Maybe at some future date I will reconsider. Diana From khixson@nu-world.com Tue Jul 1 12:30:25 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20030701093007.00f56d4c@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: L. pitkinense Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:30:07 -0700 Dear Diana- >The growth is described as "rhizomatous", but my plants would form densely >clustered masses around the main plant stem, all covered in scales. They >could be separated by cutting into chunks. They could not be pulled apart, >and I would not have described this as "rhizomatous" L. pardalinum usually forms rhizomes which form multiple branches, and the branches in turn rebranch-not just in one layer, but up and down as well as on a level. In a very few years there is a huge mass of bulbs and stems, none of which get enough nutrients, thus non flowering. Dividing L. pardalinum often sets it back and it "sulks" for a couple years. I've often thought that is because the division is done too late, in the fall like most other lilies. L pardalinum, being adapted to west coast growing conditions, makes its' new roots much sooner than lilies from other areas, and digging it too late would result in "losing" this years' roots. I have often wished I could compare digging and dividing as soon as the leaves brown with digging in late August. Early September is probably too late-new roots may have already started growing. My plants did not show any sign of virus the >first two or three years, so they could have acquired it in my care or could >have been virused to start out with. The plants CNPS here (Humboldt County) >are selling now are virused. I have less problem with west coast lilies getting virus than most other lilies-but then I may not have the aphids and leafhoppers you have. There is no such thing as L. pardalinum ssp. >giganteum (although CNPS still calls it that), and the USDA and Fish & Game >both say it is L. pitkinense. My plants were destroyed. Well, actually, yes there is. At one time, L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum was called L. harrisianum, but the trend in recent years has been to submerge most west coast lilies into L. pardalinum, one enormously variable species. First L. harrisianum became L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum, then just L. pardalinum. In this same vein, L. pitkinense may be L. pardalinum-and actually, that might be justified, though it was as distinct as L. harrisianum. If they are both L. pardalinum, they are the same species, but not the same thing. It is about like saying a pink hyacinth and a blue hyacinth are both hyacinths, so they are the same thing. I no longer have L. pitkinense, but what I grew under that name had bulbs which were much less vigorous and spreading. They did have rhizomes, and they did branch, but not as much as L. pardalinum giganteum. The plants also were smaller in all parts than the L. pardalinum I had, which again was smaller than L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum. L pitkinense was originally found in the Pitkin Marsh, and for a long time that was the only location, and there were only about fifty plants when the species was named. A few years later it was reported that blackberries were invading the marsh, and after an estensive search only seven plants were found. I believe Mary Sue mentioned a second location, which I haven't otherwise heard about. Given that the name is being used for two very different plants, it shouldn't be any surprise that there is a lot of confusion about what L. pitkinense really is. One of the pictures in my email yesterday was from a man in England, wanting to know if what he had was L. pitkinense. Ken From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 1 12:47:02 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030701085932.00b2ad30@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Taxonomic Changes Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:40:14 -0700 Dear All, Yesterday I got my IBSA (Indigenous Bulb Association of South Africa) Bulb Chat #36 which I always find fascinating. This issue is a collaborative one so I don't know if the article below was written by Alan Horstmann, the current editor, or Andries de Villiers, the previous one. I'd suspect Andries, but it doesn't have his name on it so I could be wrong. Perhaps Rachel could help me to give credit where it is due. I don't see a copyright anywhere so I hope it is o.k. to include this with the source information. Background: A couple of years ago the Manning-Goldblatt team reduced Homeria, Gynandriris, Hexaglottis, and Galaxia into Moraea, an already large genus. The IBSA members were especially unhappy about Galaxia as it more than any other of the disappearing genera resembled Moraea the least. There were protests and editorial comments. It is perhaps because of this that in the new Color Encyclopedia although all these are now listed under Moraea the key in the back of the book divides them into subgroups by the former genera. Although the article below may still be a bit too scientific for some of us gardener types I thought there are members of this group who are also unhappy with some of the changes who would appreciate it, so am copying it below as written in BULB CHAT. Mary Sue THE TAXONOMIC REVOLUTION We are living through a revolution. For 250 years we have been loyal to the Linnaean concept of cognate species grouped together into genera. A genus comprising those species which shared a common or several common characteristics based primarily on a set of morphological characteristics could be described and defined to distinguish it from any other genus. In comparatively recent years a genus could be drawn as a cladogram to demonstrate the mutations that must have occurred in the course of evolution to produce the separate species. It was a tidy, logical and understandable progression not interrupted by specimens of other genera. Now we are being subjected to a taxonomy based on DNA analysis, a science still in its infancy, which discards morphology as the determinant of relationship and substitutes genetic proximity. We in IBSA were first subjected to it by the revision of the genus Moraea which sunk the genus Galaxia into the middle of Moraea. None of us liked it but few of us realized the implications. Now if we were to draw a diagram of relationship we would have to extend a straight line or several straight lines along which species of different genera are interspersed. We would be creating a complex but, unlike a genus, the component species would have no common identifiable characteristics. Such a complex could not be defined. Genus was an inclusive concept, the component species all and only those which shared the determining characteristics. A DNA complex would include many components which had diverse characteristics and, moreover, would separate similar species by utterly different ones. When DNA taxonomy is applied to Lachenalia, Polyxena and who knows what else we will find various Lachenalia and Polyxena mixed helter skelter along the lines of relationship. We need to remember one of the abiding features of a revolution. The generation which begins it is not the generation which refines and developes it. A younger generation takes over and introduces new and exciting applications. At present the Botanists who are leading the revolution are still imbued with the Linnaean concept and will try to apply generic names to non generic complexes. They will try to make definitions of disparate specimens. No doubt a new generation will devise a taxonomy to take care of it all but it is doubtful whether any of us will live to see it. Meanwhile we must stick to names that we can understand. To us a Galaxia is still a Galaxia." From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Tue Jul 1 13:10:14 2003 Message-Id: <000501c33ff3$e6d000a0$b06a2241@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Taxonomic Changes Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:12:06 -0400 Mary Sue and others, In taxonomy, rank (e.g.. genus, subgenus, species, subspecies and variety) is arbitrary. A group recognized at the subgeneric rank could be equivalent to either genus (in which the previous generic rank would be elevated to section or tribe) or specific rank with a full breakdown of subspecies and varieties. The elevating and reducing of rank is mostly done to compartmentalize each group that has a separate evolutionary lineage and changes in names/groups is fully intended to accurately reflect the evolution of a group. The genus Moraea are still irids! The day that changes, I could see a complaint coming. Manning and Goldblatt have such insight into these groups we must accept their treatemnt until a better alternative comes along. I believe that the Amaryllidaceae is being sunk back into the Alliaceae, along w/ the Agapanthaceae, making them the Allioideae, Amarylloideae and the Agapanthoideae subfamilies, crunching other ranks down into tribes, sections, etc...I have not actually read these re-revisions but have heard that they are coming. Best Kevin Preuss http://web.tampabay.rr.com/griffinialand/ From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 1 13:33:57 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030701094925.00a5af00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Taxonomic Changes--P.2 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:32:55 -0700 Dear All, but especially Mark McDonough who is bewailing the Chlorogalum proposed change, In "Consider the Lilies" by Dean G. Kelch in the April 2002 issue of Fremontia, A Journal of the California Native Plant Society the California genera to be placed in the new Agavaceae are: Agave, Camassia, Chlorogalum, Hastingsia, Hesperocallis, Hesperoyucca, and Yucca. This is a bit mind boggling as we have desert-adapted plants and woodland plants sometimes growing in wet places thrown together. Kelch writes that desert-adapted plants like agaves could have evolved from a woodland herb like Hosta via some intermediate plant resembling hesperocallis or polianthes. He concludes: "Placing Hastingsia, Chlorogalum, and Camassia in the Agavaceae renders that family difficult to identify based on macroscopic characters. It is possible that further sampling will identify two related lineages: one a desert-adapted Agavaceae and another the forest-adapted Hostaceae (this name replaces the illegitimate Funkiaceae). If, as seems likely, these taxa are all hopelessly related, we may have to place them in one big, dysfunctional family. Until we develop a field lens powerful enough to count chromosomes, or invent a pocket DNA sequencer, this group may be hard to define based on field characters. However, all included species have a rosette of basal, often undulate leaves. The flowers are borne on a raceme or panicle, with bracts along its length and subtending the flowers. The petals are nearly free, generally being joined at the base." This last sentence is an example of what in the previous article it was predicted would be done, an attempt to make a definition for disparate specimens. I think the hard part for many of us is deciding what model to follow. Do you change your labels and go with something that cannot be easily detected by the naked eye or even a hand lens? I was having a discussion with a friend who is rewriting a book identifying local flora. She has always divided the book by families and was distressed about all the changes she'd have to make in the revision and was also wondering what the common names were for the new families since she had labeled the family names by their common names, not their scientific names, just as she describes the plants by their common names although in this case she adds the scientific name in small type below. I told her the public who uses her book looks at her drawings and pays little attention to the families and appreciates that she has divided it by color of the flowers. Most of the people who use the book aren't going to care if she has included a family name. But she still wants to arrange it in "the correct way." In the front of her book she has a key to the families and if she continues it in the revision I can see how she might struggle a bit to make everything fit. What are others in this group doing? Changing or holding out for the previous order? And please John Bryan if you respond to this, remove my message so it won't be included twice in the digest. Thanks. And does anyone know what the common name is for the new Themidaceae family that Mark is so fond of? Mary Sue From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Tue Jul 1 15:51:30 2003 Message-Id: <12a.2d2c31be.2c33403d@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Alstromeria hookeri Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:51:25 EDT I have added an image of Alstromeria hookeri to the Wiki. The plant is growing in pure sand in a greenhouse plunge bed. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Alstromeria_hookeri1.jpg Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142 www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Jul 1 18:57:43 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030701155202.00b40290@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Topic of the Week - Alstroemeria Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:54:01 -0700 I have posted a photo of another medium-sized Alstroemeria species, A. umbellata: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Alstroemeria_umbellata_1.jpg See the text page on Alstroemeria for a discussion of this species's habitat in the wild. Thanks to Mark Mazer for posting A. hookeri and saving me the trouble! Mine look much the same. However, I have one plant that has produced flowers with extra tepals, which I have not previously seen in Alstroemerias. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Jul 1 20:00:31 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030702100436.01d27df0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Dwarf Alstroemeria--Topic of the week Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:04:36 +1000 Howdy All, Thanks for that lovely Intro Jane. I had no idea there were so many dwarf species of Alstroemeria. I grow a number of dwarf Alstros, but all are named "hybrids" that are sold around the garden centres here in Australia. The vary from around 8 inches in height to say 18 inches or so, coming in various colours including white, yellow, red-pink, numerous different pinks etc. I'm not sure if the names would mean much to most of you so I am not including them here. I can provide names if anyone is interested. As with all my Alstros I grow them in waterwell tubs (i.e self-watering tubs) as this gives them the water they rather like, and it serves to control them as they cannot get out of the pot. This has been VERY handy in that they don't escape, plus there is no way that they can mix up with each other as invariably happens sooner or later in the garden. I have each tub labelled with the name and I can be certain that is what it is . Worth thinking about if others of you are lamenting the invasiveness of them....... the tubs make a wonderful display as they promote close-packing of the growth and flowers, and if you ever want to give pieces away you can turn the pot over/dig and find tubers. Hopefully this might be useful to those of you who haven't tried them as they are too invasive. I grow all of mine this way be they tall or dwarf, but the dwarf ones in particular put on a stunning show this way as they do not lean out on longs stems, but rather form a solid mass of flowers on the mound of foliage. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Tue Jul 1 20:34:44 2003 Message-Id: <001001c34031$b5406fa0$b9d6fc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: L. pitkinense Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:34:13 -0700 Hello Ken: I stand corrected on L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum - I was going on what the USDA said. They would not let me sell it without a CITES certificate, and confiscated an overseas order, insisting it was L. pitkinense. The plants I had were very large and very vigorous, which doesn't sound like the description you and Mary Sue give of the true L. pitkinense. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Hixson" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] L. pitkinense > Dear Diana- > >The growth is described as "rhizomatous", but my plants would form densely > >clustered masses around the main plant stem, all covered in scales. They > >could be separated by cutting into chunks. They could not be pulled apart, > >and I would not have described this as "rhizomatous" > L. pardalinum usually forms rhizomes which form multiple branches, > and the branches in turn rebranch-not just in one layer, but up and down as > well as on a level. In a very few years there is a huge mass of bulbs and > stems, none of which get enough nutrients, thus non flowering. Dividing > L. pardalinum often sets it back and it "sulks" for a couple years. I've > often thought that is because the division is done too late, in the fall like > most other lilies. L pardalinum, being adapted to west coast growing > conditions, > makes its' new roots much sooner than lilies from other areas, and digging it > too late would result in "losing" this years' roots. I have often wished I > could compare digging and dividing as soon as the leaves brown with digging > in late August. Early September is probably too late-new roots may have > already > started growing. > > My plants did not show any sign of virus the > >first two or three years, so they could have acquired it in my care or could > >have been virused to start out with. The plants CNPS here (Humboldt County) > >are selling now are virused. > I have less problem with west coast lilies getting virus than most other > lilies-but then I may not have the aphids and leafhoppers you have. > > There is no such thing as L. pardalinum ssp. > >giganteum (although CNPS still calls it that), and the USDA and Fish & Game > >both say it is L. pitkinense. My plants were destroyed. > Well, actually, yes there is. At one time, L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum > was called L. harrisianum, but the trend in recent years has been to submerge > most west coast lilies into L. pardalinum, one enormously variable species. > First L. harrisianum became L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum, then just L. > pardalinum. > In this same vein, L. pitkinense may be L. pardalinum-and actually, that > might be justified, though it was as distinct as L. harrisianum. If they are > both L. pardalinum, they are the same species, but not the same thing. It is > about like saying a pink hyacinth and a blue hyacinth are both hyacinths, > so they are the same thing. > I no longer have L. pitkinense, but what I grew under that name had bulbs > which were much less vigorous and spreading. They did have rhizomes, and they > did branch, but not as much as L. pardalinum giganteum. The plants also were > smaller in all parts than the L. pardalinum I had, which again was smaller > than L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum. L pitkinense was originally found in the > Pitkin Marsh, and for a long time that was the only location, and there were > only about fifty plants when the species was named. A few years later it was > reported that blackberries were invading the marsh, and after an estensive > search only seven plants were found. I believe Mary Sue mentioned a second > location, which I haven't otherwise heard about. Given that the name > is being used for two very different plants, it shouldn't be any surprise > that > there is a lot of confusion about what L. pitkinense really is. One of the > pictures in my email yesterday was from a man in England, wanting to know if > what he had was L. pitkinense. > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From khixson@nu-world.com Wed Jul 2 00:48:54 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20030701214832.00f5ffdc@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: L. pitkinense Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:48:32 -0700 Hi, Diana >I stand corrected on L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum - I was going on what the >USDA said. They would not let me sell it without a CITES certificate, and >confiscated an overseas order, insisting it was L. pitkinense. The problem is with the botanists, not the gardeners/nurseryman. They have trouble defining just what L. pardalinum is and is not, in a very variable species. I sympathise with that, but don't always agree with the conclusions that their definition forces on other people. For instance, I can't comprehend how L. wigginsii could be considered a subspecies of L. pardalinum. The purpose of a plant name is to identify a specific plant so everyone understands just which plant is being discussed/offered for sale/being purchased. Given the problems with botanists, the solution may be to give cultivar or clone names to some of the variants, which aren't under the province of the USDA, etc. L pardalinum "giganteum" was also at one time called the Sunset lily. I don't know if that would be an acceptable cultivar name, but something similiar could probably be found. If growing from seed, a "grex" or strain name could be used. The beaurocracy is supposed to be protecting us from ourselves-and sometimes the rules they use seem incomprehensible to those being "protected". Ken From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Wed Jul 2 06:02:06 2003 Message-Id: <000d01c34081$32bb4b40$b06a2241@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: L. pitkinense/taxonomy Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 06:03:33 -0400 Ken, Think of your fingers (as species) at the end of your hand (as genus), which is part of your arm (family). Now think of the variety as your fingernail; they are all connected and arise from the same point, but are related. But yet they are entities themselves. You can call the parts what you will but that does not change what they are. Currently, the trend is to accept uncertain relationships of closely related species/subspecies as a complex. It looks better to have "cleaned up" groups (i.e. genera/subgenera and species) w/ a few "untidy" subgroups, which can be cleaned up later. Taxonomy can break things down into groups of forms, varieties, and/ subspecies and they may be named. If there are unique individuals unlike the rest, they may be selected for and given a cultivar name, in certain cases (when bred and selected for, rarely a unique individual may be picked out of nature and given a c.v. name). In nature we can see individuals (in most cases) and think of groups of them as forms and ecotypes, varieties, and, collectively, subspecies and species. The plant name game is different in the trade vs. the scientific end. In the trade names are often manipulated to generate new plants for sales, where in science these manipulation of names is occasionally for accreditation of the taxonomist, which is a result of the ego, not science unfortunately. In most cases, both believe they are doing it in the best interest of, well, whatever. Sometimes a nametag is just hung on a plant because it is different, even though it is part of a recognized group. In taxonomy a "...." is used indicate an uncertain relationship of that entity; in horticulture these plants are tossed around and traded under various names, of course. Hopefully, this makes things a little more clear about the naming aspect. Kevin D. Preuss http://web.tampabay.rr.com/griffinialand/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Hixson" To: "diana chapman" ; "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] L. pitkinense > Hi, Diana > >I stand corrected on L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum - I was going on what the > >USDA said. They would not let me sell it without a CITES certificate, and > >confiscated an overseas order, insisting it was L. pitkinense. > The problem is with the botanists, not the gardeners/nurseryman. > They have trouble defining just what L. pardalinum is and is not, in a very > variable species. I sympathise with that, but don't always agree with the > conclusions that their definition forces on other people. For instance, I > can't > comprehend how L. wigginsii could be considered a subspecies of L. pardalinum. > The purpose of a plant name is to identify a specific plant so everyone > understands just which plant is being discussed/offered for sale/being > purchased. > Given the problems with botanists, the solution may be to give cultivar or > clone > names to some of the variants, which aren't under the province of the USDA, > etc. > L pardalinum "giganteum" was also at one time called the Sunset lily. > I don't know if that would be an acceptable cultivar name, but something > similiar could probably be found. If growing from seed, a "grex" or strain > name could be used. > The beaurocracy is supposed to be protecting us from ourselves-and > sometimes the rules they use seem incomprehensible to those being "protected". > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 10:05:54 2003 Message-Id: <20030702140553.68648.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Chlorogalum pomeridianum Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Mary Sue, What I mean by green spiger plant is the old houseplant, Chlorophytum sp. This is exactly what your plant looks like to me. I have a photo of what I saw and I will send it to you seperately so you can post it to the wiki. I had no idea that they could produce such interesting flowers. I wish the one I saw had produced seeds. I would love to try growing this one in gardens here. Anyone have extra bulbs around? What is it's bloomtime? ===== John Ingram in mostly gloomy but warm, L.A., CA. Not much blooming right now, just a few Crinums, a sinningia or two, and some fabulous Pelergoniums. jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Jul 2 12:20:59 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702091252.00b8feb0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: L. pitkinense and L. pardalinum Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:20:55 -0700 I am no lily expert, but I had the privilege of assisting one, Edward McRae, in the preparation of his recent book "Lilies," and here is what he has to say about L. pardalinum 'Giganteum': "'Red Giant', the Sunset lily, was formerly known as Lilium harrisianum Beane & Vollmer. It has been treated either as a giant form of L. pardalinum or as a hybrid between that species and L. humboldtii. Beane and Vollmer described it from a wild population on the banks of Van Duzen Creek in northern California. ... This extraordinarily magnificent lily, usually 5-7 feet tall, bears large flowers, 3-4 inches wide, ... gleaming carmine-red inside from the tip to the midpoint, and chrome yellow from the middle to the base, tinged in the throat with green, with large spots, typically gold-ringed in chocolate brown." Regarding L. pitkinense, McRae writes, "Seedling populations of this species...showed enormous variation in height, flower size. color, and flowering season. They resembled a hybrid population more than a true species. This observation, coupled with the species' singular wild occurrence, suggests that L. pitkinense in fact represents a natural hybrid population. The plants were all strong and easy to grow, much like smaller forms of L. pardalinum." I grew 'Red Giant' for many years, having bought it from Russell Graham's nursery in the 1980s and planted it in moist woodland conditions. It can indeed get very large and has the long scaly rhizome Diana described. (L. pitkinense is also stoloniferous.) This discussion has stimulated me to make a trip to Eddie's nursery on the east side of Mt. Hood this summer and take some photos of these and other lily species for the wiki. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From valden@vectis52.freeserve.co.uk Wed Jul 2 13:44:39 2003 Message-Id: <000901c340c1$8e2cc3b0$fae1883e@deny471g8xq1jy> From: "Den Wilson" Subject: L. pitkinense Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:43:31 +0100 Hello All, I have a group of L. pitkinense raised from RHS Lily Group seed and planted out around 10 years ago. They flower regularly every year without any special treatment. The plants are very much smaller and more graceful than L. pardalinum (2-3 ft) and a brighter, richer red, conforming pretty much to Ken's description They do very well during a wet spring but do not appear to require extra moisture after flowering when the soil here becomes very dry. I believe that it was once reported that a pink form was seen at Pitkin Marsh but I have never heard of it being in cultivation. At the time there was much argument between the splitters and lumpers as to whether this was a new species or merely a form of L. pardalinum; presumably the argument still rages but to my eye it looks quite distinct. There was a report in the 1976 Lily Year Book of it being grown successfully in a garden pond. Mine are about to flower so I'll try to get an image to the wiki. Cheers. Den Wilson Isle of Wight UK. Zone 8 (maritime) almost frost-free. From geophyte@sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 2 15:54:19 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702125141.009f1020@pop.sbcglobal.net> From: Jamie Subject: Chlorogalum pomeridianum Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:53:33 -0700 John, this is my first message to the group, so I hope I'm doing it right. On my walks I see Chlorogalum blooming right now in Tilden park in the Berkeley hills, and they are odd, but pretty. The foliage is rather lush for a native plant, and a large specimen in the shade resembles a clump of daylilies, until the 4-6 foot wiry stems shoot up in the late spring. If you want one, I think I remember seeing them offered by Guy Wrinkle on his website. I bought a pot of what was supposed to be C. pomeridianum at a nursery in Berkeley a few years ago, and it grew in summer and went dormant in winter- just the opposite of the native ones. It also had a much shorter bloom stem. From msittner@mcn.org Wed Jul 2 23:38:30 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030702202314.00d78ea0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Dwarf Alstroemeria--Topic of the week Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:38:02 -0700 Dear Jane, Paul, and Mark, I really enjoyed your introduction and all the lovely pictures of these species. The only one I grow is Alstroemeria hookeri. My friend Jana started a pot for me and I was amazed when it bloomed right away and has continued to bloom every year with a dry summer dormancy. But then Roy Sachs had a whole list of Alstroemeria he was able to flower from seed in less than a year. Last year I sent a whole lot of seed to the BX I collected at Jana's and brought home in a paper bag where it popped like popcorn over a long period. I was quite startled the first time it happened. I'd be curious to know how the people did with it who ordered it. Alstroemeria hookeri was planted at Strybing Arboretum in San Francisco in a bed they planned to water year round. I haven't been back to see how they look with regular water. Do you get yours to bloom with the leaves still present? Even though I thought I was watering enough all the leaves died on mine before it started blooming. Where does one get seed of these species from Chile? Is it only Watson and Flores? Jane will you be donating any of yours to the BX? I am sure you'd have a lot of takers. I am also curious about Paul Tyerman's growing his the way he does and how having regular water makes them shorter. Do they really not burst out of the tub? And what size are the self watering tubs. Finally Mark Mazer's picture was really nice too. Are these growing in your greenhouse? Mary Sue From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Jul 3 04:55:00 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030703185913.01fb3560@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Dwarf Alstroemeria--Topic of the week Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:59:13 +1000 > >I am also curious about Paul Tyerman's growing his the way he does and how >having regular water makes them shorter. Do they really not burst out of >the tub? And what size are the self watering tubs. > Mary Sue, I doubt that the extra water makes mine any shorter.... I just think that they are shorter varieties. They are called the "Princess" series here in Aus, although there are others now as well. Things like Princess Grace, Persian Princess etc, as well as a few other bits and pieces being released by other companies. My favourites are "Little Eleanor" which is a lovely pure yellow with white and black markings (grows to a foot or so high) and 'Juliet' which quite a pure white with some dark red speckling (this one grows to maybe 8 inches tall.... very petite). The self watering tubs are around 18" a side (the square ones) or are 12" by 24", depending which ones I put in which. Any of the larger varieties I would use the rectangular tubs as that gives them more room. The tubs have fluted sides that I think would give them better strength to be honest (I don't think this was intended.... just an added bonus). I can photograph if you'd like? Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From jamievande@freenet.de Thu Jul 3 05:45:14 2003 Message-Id: <007a01c34147$38edd520$012207d5@oemcomputer> From: "Jamie" Subject: TOW - Alstromerias Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:40:46 +0200 Jamie Vande Cologne Germany Zone 8 As cut flower, I know no better subject, they really hold well and keep coming in the garden. I planted a few pots of Ligtu hybrids, that polyglot of unruley and overly thankful cultivars, some of which are beautiful, but, let's face it, other than the few named varieties, the seedlings are little more than easy and interesting colour. You really do not need to closely examine the blossoms. Then there is the thug problem! Better love 'em, they ain't going no where once established! I added A. psittacina last year and it languishes, no blooms as yet, but it is shorter! Also, a few shoots are variagated white. I hope this is not a virus or something. Has anyone had experience in this? I had planned on moving it to a better spot, but it's gone too deep, already! A few years back I tried seed of A. pulchella (ligit. name?), A. pygmaea and a few unidentified, wild collected types. I got them to a decent size in pots, but they died in the garden. I now realize that they do not like heavy soils, which is what my Rhein mud is! I take it they suffocated. Interestingly, I find that the related genus Bomarea adapts better to my garden, although they are not as winter hardy as many Alstromerias. Has anyone ever managed to cross these genera? The fine speckling of the Bomareas blossoms is particularly fetching in my eyes. Well, I have a box of Chasmanthe to plant, so, off to the garden! Hope they like it here. From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Thu Jul 3 05:41:30 2003 Message-Id: <187.1c4de3ef.2c355446@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Dwarf Alstroemeria--Topic of the week Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:41:26 EDT In a message dated 7/2/2003 11:38:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, msittner@mcn.org writes: > Finally Mark Mazer's picture was really nice too. Are these growing in your > > greenhouse? > Hi Mary Sue: It is growing in the sand plunge in the greenhouse. Best regards, Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142 www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From vicm527@tampabay.rr.com Thu Jul 3 08:51:57 2003 Message-Id: <000c01c34161$e0ceaca0$97175c18@VicLynn> From: "Vic" Subject: Alstromeria Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:51:53 -0400 Plant World has a wonderful selection of Alstromeria seed in their catalog. Plant World St. Marychurch Rd. Newton Abbot Devon, TQ12 4SE, UK Lynn Makela Sun City Ctr, FL Zone 9b From Arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Jul 3 10:32:30 2003 Message-Id: <3F043E7D.8040108@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Subject: Lily time Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:32:29 -0400 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lilium_Brownii_viridulum_4.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lilium_leuc_var._cent.JPG Two lilies flowering one from the Species Lily Preservation Group (Leucanthum) and the other from a Chinese source (Brownii). Both have increased in size and vigor, and this year with all the rain the leucanthum is twelve feet tall. Arnold New jersey From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Jul 3 23:37:03 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030703101730.00b4bc78@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Dwarf Alstroemeria--Topic of the week Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:26:47 -0700 To answer several people's questions on this topic that showed up in today's mail: "Do you get yours [Alstroemeria hookeri] to bloom with the leaves still present? Even though I thought I was watering enough all the leaves died on mine before it started blooming." I had to run out and look. The flowering shoots and some of the nonflowering ones still have their leaves, but the leaves are looking dull and near the point where they wither -- i.e., that look that bulbs get that tells you not to water them any more this season. "Where does one get seed of these species from Chile? Is it only Watson and Flores? Jane will you be donating any of yours to the BX?" In addition to Watson and Flores, the premier source (although as I noted I got some mixed-up packets from them a few years ago), many species are offered by Jim and Jenny Archibald ('Bryn Collen', Ffostrasol, Llandysul, Dyfed SA 44 5SB, Wales, UK; no e-mail). Most of the Archibalds' seed at present is being grown in their bulb houses so I suspect there is a possibility of hybridization. The Watsons' seed is all wild-collected. I will try to send some seed to the BX, but it will not be ripe until late August, I think. Jamie mentioned A. psittacina, a. Pulchella, and A. pygmaea. I think that A. pulchella is an invalid synonym for A. psittacina, and the RHS Dictionary of Gardening notes that plants labeled A. pulchella in cultivation are usually either A. psittacina or A. ligtu (there is no likelihood of confusing the latter two species). A. pygmaea of gardens is often a misnomer for A. patagonica, but there is a real A. pygmaea, too. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Jul 3 23:37:14 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030703104415.00b4cd68@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Plant guidebooks and taxonomy Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:17:24 -0700 In a recent posting on "Taxonomic changes," Mary Sue Ittner wrote: "...a friend who is rewriting a book identifying local flora ... has always divided the book by families and was distressed about all the changes she'd have to make in the revision and was also wondering what the common names were for the new families since she had labeled the family names by their common names, not their scientific names, just as she describes the plants by their common names although in this case she adds the scientific name in small type below. I told her the public who uses her book looks at her drawings and pays little attention to the families and appreciates that she has divided it by color of the flowers. ... But she still wants to arrange it in "the correct way." In the front of her book she has a key to the families and if she continues it in the revision I can see how she might struggle a bit to make everything fit." As an editor of reference books, I think about these matters a lot as I use plant manuals. Some thoughts: 1. I can't stand plant books arranged by flower color. First, the flowers may not be present when you're looking at the plant, though you might be able to identify it by the capsules or some other trait. Second, some species have flowers of various colors, so where do you look for them? Third, this results in genera being split up in various parts of the book, which is utterly maddening. If you want to cater to readers so naive they can't guess at a genus or even family, put in an appendix on flower color. 2. For the time being, I think it's best to present families as they existed when many likely users of a given book learned or relearned them (perhaps about 1990 is a good marker), but ALSO to mention recent proposed revisions in a note to the key to families. I've learned the hard way not to try to adapt to every taxonomic revision that appears, because sometimes the botanist proposing one has second thoughts later and withdraws or changes his proposal (e.g., Hershkovits's maneuvers around what most of us know as Lewisia tweedyi). 3. I don't think the "common" family names (e.g., lily family, buttercup family for Ranunculaceae) are systematized. For example, what used to be called the Umbelliferae and is now the Apiaceae gets called both the "carrot" and "parsley" family in English. When huge families are broken up (e.g., the former Liliaceae), the spin-off families rarely have handy "common" names anyway. Here I apply my bad-tempered motto: "If you can learn to say 'carburetor', you can learn to say 'Zauschneria'." A word is just a word, no matter how long it is. 4. It's true that it's hard to sell "wildflower" books without putting in "common" names, but the introduction to the book should make it clear that many of these common names have never actually been used in the vernacular language and are, instead, made up by the writers of wildflower books. Nobody else ever called a plant "Howelll's mariposa" or "Five-stamened Mitrewort." People in Native Plant Societies often use these artificial terms, but if you're from another area or not used to this practice, you end up tearing your hair out trying to remember what a "mitrewort" is (Mitella, which is EASIER to say and spell). I will be tearing my hair out next week, no doubt, at the NARGS annual meeting, where the guides will probably trot out these "easy" names. In addition to being a part of the natural sciences, taxonomy is a part of anthropology and linguistics, and also of philosophy. Because most of us (the ones without pocket DNA sequencers) approach it from a macro and linguistic standpoint, we inevitably encounter confusing areas and sometimes feel that we are being carried along helplessly on a flood of ever-changing information. The only response for the non-botanists among us, I think, is to make it clear what framework we are using in what we write, acknowledge alternatives of which we may be aware, and try not to be too anxious. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From ggroiti@mail.agro.uba.ar Thu Jul 3 14:48:48 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030703154447.00d11370@mail.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: christmas gift in july Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:48:31 -0300 Hi all: Here in the southern hemisphere is not time for Lilies but its time for some Hippeastrum hybrids, i am not completely sure but i guess this is: Christmas gift http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/hippeastrumchristmasgift.jpg and here Hermitage http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/hippeastrumhermitage.jpg Best whises Germán From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu Jul 3 20:12:38 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Alstroemeria TOW Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 00:12:32 +0000 Dear all: Besides Flores & Watson (superb quality seeds, 100 % germination a rule) the Archibalds have a number of species in their catalog. Since Chile starts in the North with a hot desert and ends in the South with cold rainforests and Alstroemerias are found almost all over it, there are species for almost every situation. This is a real problem as one will tend to grow all under the same conditions. Along this, Flores & Watson's catalog has very detailed information on the habitat in which every Alstroemeria they sell seed of grows. Thus, you can select species for say San Diego and others for Portland. I have seen images of the Princess Series Alstroemerias and they are gorgeous. Paul has posted in the past images of them that were stunning. They are truly dwarf plant with big flowers. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From silverhill@yebo.co.za Fri Jul 4 03:07:47 2003 Message-Id: <01df01c341fb$4190a0e0$0100a8c0@saunders> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: Plant guidebooks and taxonomy Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:43:31 +0200 Dear Jane Another hate in flower guides: some of our flower guides in South Africa are arranged by the month in which the plants flower. That to me is the worst of all. Regards Rachel Saunders Cape Town ----- Original Message ----- From: Jane McGary To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:17 PM Subject: [pbs] Plant guidebooks and taxonomy > In a recent posting on "Taxonomic changes," Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > "...a friend who is rewriting a book identifying local flora ... has always > divided the book by families and was distressed about all the changes she'd > have to make in the revision and was also wondering what the common names > were for the new families since she had labeled the family names by their > common names, not their scientific names, just as she describes the plants > by their common names although in this case she adds the scientific name in > small type below. I told her the public who uses her book looks at her > drawings and pays little attention to the families and appreciates that she > has divided it by color of the flowers. ... But she still wants to arrange > it in "the correct way." In the front of her book she has a key to the > families and if she continues it in the revision I can see how she might > struggle a bit to make everything fit." > > As an editor of reference books, I think about these matters a lot as I use > plant manuals. Some thoughts: > > 1. I can't stand plant books arranged by flower color. First, the flowers > may not be present when you're looking at the plant, though you might be > able to identify it by the capsules or some other trait. Second, some > species have flowers of various colors, so where do you look for them? > Third, this results in genera being split up in various parts of the book, > which is utterly maddening. If you want to cater to readers so naive they > can't guess at a genus or even family, put in an appendix on flower color. > > 2. For the time being, I think it's best to present families as they > existed when many likely users of a given book learned or relearned them > (perhaps about 1990 is a good marker), but ALSO to mention recent proposed > revisions in a note to the key to families. I've learned the hard way not > to try to adapt to every taxonomic revision that appears, because sometimes > the botanist proposing one has second thoughts later and withdraws or > changes his proposal (e.g., Hershkovits's maneuvers around what most of us > know as Lewisia tweedyi). > > 3. I don't think the "common" family names (e.g., lily family, buttercup > family for Ranunculaceae) are systematized. For example, what used to be > called the Umbelliferae and is now the Apiaceae gets called both the > "carrot" and "parsley" family in English. When huge families are broken up > (e.g., the former Liliaceae), the spin-off families rarely have handy > "common" names anyway. Here I apply my bad-tempered motto: "If you can > learn to say 'carburetor', you can learn to say 'Zauschneria'." A word is > just a word, no matter how long it is. > > 4. It's true that it's hard to sell "wildflower" books without putting in > "common" names, but the introduction to the book should make it clear that > many of these common names have never actually been used in the vernacular > language and are, instead, made up by the writers of wildflower books. > Nobody else ever called a plant "Howelll's mariposa" or "Five-stamened > Mitrewort." People in Native Plant Societies often use these artificial > terms, but if you're from another area or not used to this practice, you > end up tearing your hair out trying to remember what a "mitrewort" is > (Mitella, which is EASIER to say and spell). I will be tearing my hair out > next week, no doubt, at the NARGS annual meeting, where the guides will > probably trot out these "easy" names. > > In addition to being a part of the natural sciences, taxonomy is a part of > anthropology and linguistics, and also of philosophy. Because most of us > (the ones without pocket DNA sequencers) approach it from a macro and > linguistic standpoint, we inevitably encounter confusing areas and > sometimes feel that we are being carried along helplessly on a flood of > ever-changing information. The only response for the non-botanists among > us, I think, is to make it clear what framework we are using in what we > write, acknowledge alternatives of which we may be aware, and try not to be > too anxious. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Fri Jul 4 10:45:47 2003 Message-Id: <000e01c3423a$f344bad0$a2d0fc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Plant guidebooks and taxonomy Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 07:45:42 -0700 Hi Jane:' A great posting!!! In addition to the absurdity of using "common" names that have never been used, the Peterson Field Guide to the Pacific States wildflowers also lists the flowers by color, and the writer must have been color-blind, since many of the Brodiaeas are listed in the red/pink category! Huh? Jepson, in spite of its natty carrying case, is unusable in the field, so I'm stuck with using Peterson for trying to identify unfamiliar native plants accompanied by much gnashing of teeth. Sometimes I just give up, and decide I want to enjoy myself. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:17 AM Subject: [pbs] Plant guidebooks and taxonomy > In a recent posting on "Taxonomic changes," Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > "...a friend who is rewriting a book identifying local flora ... has always > divided the book by families and was distressed about all the changes she'd > have to make in the revision and was also wondering what the common names > were for the new families since she had labeled the family names by their > common names, not their scientific names, just as she describes the plants > by their common names although in this case she adds the scientific name in > small type below. I told her the public who uses her book looks at her > drawings and pays little attention to the families and appreciates that she > has divided it by color of the flowers. ... But she still wants to arrange > it in "the correct way." In the front of her book she has a key to the > families and if she continues it in the revision I can see how she might > struggle a bit to make everything fit." > > As an editor of reference books, I think about these matters a lot as I use > plant manuals. Some thoughts: > > 1. I can't stand plant books arranged by flower color. First, the flowers > may not be present when you're looking at the plant, though you might be > able to identify it by the capsules or some other trait. Second, some > species have flowers of various colors, so where do you look for them? > Third, this results in genera being split up in various parts of the book, > which is utterly maddening. If you want to cater to readers so naive they > can't guess at a genus or even family, put in an appendix on flower color. > > 2. For the time being, I think it's best to present families as they > existed when many likely users of a given book learned or relearned them > (perhaps about 1990 is a good marker), but ALSO to mention recent proposed > revisions in a note to the key to families. I've learned the hard way not > to try to adapt to every taxonomic revision that appears, because sometimes > the botanist proposing one has second thoughts later and withdraws or > changes his proposal (e.g., Hershkovits's maneuvers around what most of us > know as Lewisia tweedyi). > > 3. I don't think the "common" family names (e.g., lily family, buttercup > family for Ranunculaceae) are systematized. For example, what used to be > called the Umbelliferae and is now the Apiaceae gets called both the > "carrot" and "parsley" family in English. When huge families are broken up > (e.g., the former Liliaceae), the spin-off families rarely have handy > "common" names anyway. Here I apply my bad-tempered motto: "If you can > learn to say 'carburetor', you can learn to say 'Zauschneria'." A word is > just a word, no matter how long it is. > > 4. It's true that it's hard to sell "wildflower" books without putting in > "common" names, but the introduction to the book should make it clear that > many of these common names have never actually been used in the vernacular > language and are, instead, made up by the writers of wildflower books. > Nobody else ever called a plant "Howelll's mariposa" or "Five-stamened > Mitrewort." People in Native Plant Societies often use these artificial > terms, but if you're from another area or not used to this practice, you > end up tearing your hair out trying to remember what a "mitrewort" is > (Mitella, which is EASIER to say and spell). I will be tearing my hair out > next week, no doubt, at the NARGS annual meeting, where the guides will > probably trot out these "easy" names. > > In addition to being a part of the natural sciences, taxonomy is a part of > anthropology and linguistics, and also of philosophy. Because most of us > (the ones without pocket DNA sequencers) approach it from a macro and > linguistic standpoint, we inevitably encounter confusing areas and > sometimes feel that we are being carried along helplessly on a flood of > ever-changing information. The only response for the non-botanists among > us, I think, is to make it clear what framework we are using in what we > write, acknowledge alternatives of which we may be aware, and try not to be > too anxious. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Jul 4 10:53:24 2003 Message-Id: <3F0594E3.5070204@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Subject: Plant guidebooks and taxonomy Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:53:23 -0400 Which is why the Wiki Wiki can be all the more valuable. Problem is you can't take it with you. Arnold From msittner@mcn.org Fri Jul 4 11:41:02 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030630205129.00ca65c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Happy Flowerworks Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 08:40:39 -0700 Dear All, I am nearing the anniversary of my first year as Administrator of this list. In honor of that and the 4th of July which in the USA is a time to shoot off fireworks I am presenting instead some "flowerworks". Where I live all fireworks are illegal as they are too dangerous this time of year when the forest is dry. I found these on the wiki: From Lauw de Jager: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium_schubertii.jpg From Mark McDonough: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/oldpix/Allium_flavum_tauricum_color mix.jpg And new from my husband: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Thems-in-bud-bloom.jpg And if you want to know about the above picture I have created a Bloomeria page on the wiki that tells all about Bloomeria and shows the progression from buds to blooms: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bloomeria Mary Sue From Arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Jul 4 11:55:20 2003 Message-Id: <3F05A360.80201@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Subject: last try Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:55:12 -0400 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg Arnold From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Jul 4 14:22:47 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030704111926.00b80210@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Plant guidebooks and taxonomy Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:22:40 -0700 Arnold wrote in regard to plant guidebooks and their limitations: >Which is why the Wiki Wiki can be all the more valuable. Problem is you >can't take it with you. But you can! There is a CD-ROM version of a very elaborate guide to plants of the Pacific Northwest states (not California yet), reviewed in a recent issue of the Rock Garden Quarterly and now distributed through the New York Botanical Garden, I believe. And the new AGS journal has a review of a very inexpensive CD-ROM guide to plants of the Mediterranean. Other references of this type exist, too. Now all we have to do is get little notebook computers to view them, with good rechargeable batteries, and converters that we won't be scared to use anywhere, including hotels in the Atacama with loose electric wires strung all over the walls.... I'm sure technology will catch up with our desires in this regard; then our problem will be catching up with the technology. Jane McGary From pbrooks3@sc.rr.com Fri Jul 4 14:25:25 2003 Message-Id: <002001c34259$a560e860$6501a8c0@home> From: "Patricia Brooks" Subject: last try Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:25:28 -0400 That was really beautiful. thanks Pat ---- Original Message ----- From: "Arnold" To: Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 11:55 AM Subject: [pbs] last try > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg > > Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From pbrooks3@sc.rr.com Fri Jul 4 14:33:11 2003 Message-Id: <004901c3425a$bb47a370$6501a8c0@home> From: "Patricia Brooks" Subject: Happy Flowerworks Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:33:15 -0400 I wish fireworks were made illegal by us. Some kids burned a electical supply store down by uslast night. I hate picking the stuff off my car and yard the next day. Pat in South Carolina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 11:40 AM Subject: [pbs] Happy Flowerworks > Dear All, > > I am nearing the anniversary of my first year as Administrator of this > list. In honor of that and the 4th of July which in the USA is a time to > shoot off fireworks I am presenting instead some "flowerworks". Where I > live all fireworks are illegal as they are too dangerous this time of year > when the forest is dry. > > I found these on the wiki: > From Lauw de Jager: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium_schubertii.jpg > From Mark McDonough: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/oldpix/Allium_flavum_tauricum_color > mix.jpg > And new from my husband: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Thems-in-bud-bloom.jpg > > And if you want to know about the above picture I have created a Bloomeria > page on the wiki that tells all about Bloomeria and shows the progression > from buds to blooms: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bloomeria > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Antennaria@aol.com Fri Jul 4 23:03:56 2003 Message-Id: <1d7.cf2cd29.2c379a12@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Happy Flowerworks Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:03:46 EDT For a peek at the Allium flavum ssp. tauricum color diversity, please check out the following corrected link... the link in the last PBS digest contained an extra space that results in an invalid URL. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/oldpix/Allium_flavum_tauricum_colormi x.jpg Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From john@johnlonsdale.net Sat Jul 5 08:14:40 2003 Message-Id: <000d01c342ee$dae05350$6401a8c0@DCM28D21> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Happy Flowerworks Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 08:13:32 -0400 Hi Mark, I think you might find that the issue wasn't an extra space, rather the fact that the e-mail client wraps around the URL and breaks the continuity. This also happened to the latest link you posted. I use MS Outlook as my client - by deleting the space you just moved the breakpoint. I use TinyURL (TinyURL.com) for long URL posting, alternatively the end user can use URLFixer from GeekCorp Software to repair them at their end. These both work very well. All the best, J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 610 476 0428 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/oldpix/Allium_flavum_tauricum_color mi x.jpg From brian.whyer@which.net Sat Jul 5 08:21:59 2003 Message-Id: <000701c342f0$092f87c0$464cfd3e@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Princess Lilies Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:21:59 +0100 There is a Netherlands website on these plants, although I have seen additional varieties to those on this current "assortment", unless they pick up additional names depending on the local royal family names. Note the plantbreeder rights. http://www.princesslilies.nl/Engels/Default.htm I have mixed results with these in pots, due to erratic feeding and watering I suspect. A commercial grower of the larger cut flower types told me it is all in the feeding, as soon as the leaves show any sign of yellowing they need a feed. The leaves should be a healthy dark green all the time for good flowering. If only the dwarf types were so accommodating. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, UK From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 5 13:10:08 2003 Message-Id: <3F070530.3A240D0@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Plant guidebooks and taxonomy Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:04:48 -0700 Dear Jane: Well stated. Cheers, John E. Bryan Jane McGary wrote: > > In a recent posting on "Taxonomic changes," Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > "...a friend who is rewriting a book identifying local flora ... has always > divided the book by families and was distressed about all the changes she'd > have to make in the revision and was also wondering what the common names > were for the new families since she had labeled the family names by their > common names, not their scientific names, just as she describes the plants > by their common names although in this case she adds the scientific name in > small type below. I told her the public who uses her book looks at her > drawings and pays little attention to the families and appreciates that she > has divided it by color of the flowers. ... But she still wants to arrange > it in "the correct way." In the front of her book she has a key to the > families and if she continues it in the revision I can see how she might > struggle a bit to make everything fit." > > As an editor of reference books, I think about these matters a lot as I use > plant manuals. Some thoughts: > > 1. I can't stand plant books arranged by flower color. First, the flowers > may not be present when you're looking at the plant, though you might be > able to identify it by the capsules or some other trait. Second, some > species have flowers of various colors, so where do you look for them? > Third, this results in genera being split up in various parts of the book, > which is utterly maddening. If you want to cater to readers so naive they > can't guess at a genus or even family, put in an appendix on flower color. > > 2. For the time being, I think it's best to present families as they > existed when many likely users of a given book learned or relearned them > (perhaps about 1990 is a good marker), but ALSO to mention recent proposed > revisions in a note to the key to families. I've learned the hard way not > to try to adapt to every taxonomic revision that appears, because sometimes > the botanist proposing one has second thoughts later and withdraws or > changes his proposal (e.g., Hershkovits's maneuvers around what most of us > know as Lewisia tweedyi). > > 3. I don't think the "common" family names (e.g., lily family, buttercup > family for Ranunculaceae) are systematized. For example, what used to be > called the Umbelliferae and is now the Apiaceae gets called both the > "carrot" and "parsley" family in English. When huge families are broken up > (e.g., the former Liliaceae), the spin-off families rarely have handy > "common" names anyway. Here I apply my bad-tempered motto: "If you can > learn to say 'carburetor', you can learn to say 'Zauschneria'." A word is > just a word, no matter how long it is. > > 4. It's true that it's hard to sell "wildflower" books without putting in > "common" names, but the introduction to the book should make it clear that > many of these common names have never actually been used in the vernacular > language and are, instead, made up by the writers of wildflower books. > Nobody else ever called a plant "Howelll's mariposa" or "Five-stamened > Mitrewort." People in Native Plant Societies often use these artificial > terms, but if you're from another area or not used to this practice, you > end up tearing your hair out trying to remember what a "mitrewort" is > (Mitella, which is EASIER to say and spell). I will be tearing my hair out > next week, no doubt, at the NARGS annual meeting, where the guides will > probably trot out these "easy" names. > > In addition to being a part of the natural sciences, taxonomy is a part of > anthropology and linguistics, and also of philosophy. Because most of us > (the ones without pocket DNA sequencers) approach it from a macro and > linguistic standpoint, we inevitably encounter confusing areas and > sometimes feel that we are being carried along helplessly on a flood of > ever-changing information. The only response for the non-botanists among > us, I think, is to make it clear what framework we are using in what we > write, acknowledge alternatives of which we may be aware, and try not to be > too anxious. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 5 13:12:55 2003 Message-Id: <3F0705D6.2C75202F@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Plant guidebooks and taxonomy Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:07:34 -0700 Dear Rachel: I find flowering by month not a bad thing, one can always go a month forward or back depending on the season. Jane's point, grouping by color, is much more difficult to deal with. Cheers, John E. Bryan Rachel Saunders wrote: > > Dear Jane > Another hate in flower guides: some of our flower guides in South Africa > are arranged by the month in which the plants flower. That to me is the > worst of all. > Regards > Rachel Saunders > Cape Town > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jane McGary > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 8:17 PM > Subject: [pbs] Plant guidebooks and taxonomy > > > In a recent posting on "Taxonomic changes," Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > > "...a friend who is rewriting a book identifying local flora ... has > always > > divided the book by families and was distressed about all the changes > she'd > > have to make in the revision and was also wondering what the common names > > were for the new families since she had labeled the family names by their > > common names, not their scientific names, just as she describes the plants > > by their common names although in this case she adds the scientific name > in > > small type below. I told her the public who uses her book looks at her > > drawings and pays little attention to the families and appreciates that > she > > has divided it by color of the flowers. ... But she still wants to arrange > > it in "the correct way." In the front of her book she has a key to the > > families and if she continues it in the revision I can see how she might > > struggle a bit to make everything fit." > > > > As an editor of reference books, I think about these matters a lot as I > use > > plant manuals. Some thoughts: > > > > 1. I can't stand plant books arranged by flower color. First, the flowers > > may not be present when you're looking at the plant, though you might be > > able to identify it by the capsules or some other trait. Second, some > > species have flowers of various colors, so where do you look for them? > > Third, this results in genera being split up in various parts of the book, > > which is utterly maddening. If you want to cater to readers so naive they > > can't guess at a genus or even family, put in an appendix on flower color. > > > > 2. For the time being, I think it's best to present families as they > > existed when many likely users of a given book learned or relearned them > > (perhaps about 1990 is a good marker), but ALSO to mention recent proposed > > revisions in a note to the key to families. I've learned the hard way not > > to try to adapt to every taxonomic revision that appears, because > sometimes > > the botanist proposing one has second thoughts later and withdraws or > > changes his proposal (e.g., Hershkovits's maneuvers around what most of us > > know as Lewisia tweedyi). > > > > 3. I don't think the "common" family names (e.g., lily family, buttercup > > family for Ranunculaceae) are systematized. For example, what used to be > > called the Umbelliferae and is now the Apiaceae gets called both the > > "carrot" and "parsley" family in English. When huge families are broken up > > (e.g., the former Liliaceae), the spin-off families rarely have handy > > "common" names anyway. Here I apply my bad-tempered motto: "If you can > > learn to say 'carburetor', you can learn to say 'Zauschneria'." A word is > > just a word, no matter how long it is. > > > > 4. It's true that it's hard to sell "wildflower" books without putting in > > "common" names, but the introduction to the book should make it clear that > > many of these common names have never actually been used in the vernacular > > language and are, instead, made up by the writers of wildflower books. > > Nobody else ever called a plant "Howelll's mariposa" or "Five-stamened > > Mitrewort." People in Native Plant Societies often use these artificial > > terms, but if you're from another area or not used to this practice, you > > end up tearing your hair out trying to remember what a "mitrewort" is > > (Mitella, which is EASIER to say and spell). I will be tearing my hair out > > next week, no doubt, at the NARGS annual meeting, where the guides will > > probably trot out these "easy" names. > > > > In addition to being a part of the natural sciences, taxonomy is a part of > > anthropology and linguistics, and also of philosophy. Because most of us > > (the ones without pocket DNA sequencers) approach it from a macro and > > linguistic standpoint, we inevitably encounter confusing areas and > > sometimes feel that we are being carried along helplessly on a flood of > > ever-changing information. The only response for the non-botanists among > > us, I think, is to make it clear what framework we are using in what we > > write, acknowledge alternatives of which we may be aware, and try not to > be > > too anxious. > > > > Jane McGary > > Northwestern Oregon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Jul 5 14:14:14 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Princess Alstroemeria Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:46:09 -0500 Dear all; I've heard about these dwarf Alstros for a couple of years under the 'Princess' series, but wonder if they are available in the US. Not surprising that they wouldn't be here in the midwest, but does anyone sell them in CA? Who is propagating them - Monrvia? Hines? or? Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Theladygardens@aol.com Sat Jul 5 15:18:50 2003 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Borders bookstore coupon 20% off Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:18:35 EDT Here is a link for a coupon 20% off at Borders/Waldens bookstores July 11-14 Http:www.bordersstores.com/friendsandfamily> You can print out the coupon, hope it is of use to some of you Carolyn From Theladygardens@aol.com Sat Jul 5 15:27:47 2003 Message-Id: <19a.177bc9cc.2c3880ae@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Plant guidebooks and taxonomy Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:27:42 EDT I agree with what Jane McGary said. I do not have the knowledge, education or expertise that most of you have but even as a novice I prefer books that use the scientific names and information. Even if the botanists have changed the name of a plant recently, I have a better chance of finding the plant or information about it if I know the scientific name. Carolyn in Los Gatos From Theladygardens@aol.com Sat Jul 5 16:10:02 2003 Message-Id: <1d0.d21f6fc.2c388a94@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Princess Alstroemeria Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:09:56 EDT Princess Alstroemeria are available in Calif. but not in all the common nurseries, yet. I have purchased two of them. One promptly died, the other formed a perfect mound. The mound gets wider each year and is beautiful. I cannot remember the name of the wholesale nursery in the Napa area I purchased them from but when it comes to me, I'll let you know. Carolyn in Los Gatos From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jul 5 19:57:36 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030705165245.00d768b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Alstroemeria TOW Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 16:56:19 -0700 Dear All, I added a picture to the Wiki that Roy Sachs showed on images lists earlier of Alstroemeria caryophyllacea which is from Brazil and he said was a shy bloomer after the first couple of years of bloom and is nicely scented when it does bloom. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Alstroemeria_caryophyllacea.jpg And here is Paul Tyerman's picture of 'Little Eleanor', presumably one of those in the Princess series. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Alstroemeria_Little_Eleanor.jpg Mary Sue From ernestwells@mindspring.com Sat Jul 5 20:06:30 2003 Message-Id: From: Tom Wells Subject: Princess Alstroemeria Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:06:29 -0700 Monrovia Growers have a newly introduced line of dwarf Alstromerias. Tom from Southern California > From: James Waddick > Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:46:09 -0500 > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] Re:Princess Alstroemeria > > Dear all; > I've heard about these dwarf Alstros for a couple of years > under the 'Princess' series, but wonder if they are available in the > US. Not surprising that they wouldn't be here in the midwest, but > does anyone sell them in CA? Who is propagating them - Monrvia? > Hines? or? > > Thanks Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > E-fax 419-781-8594 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Antennaria@aol.com Sat Jul 5 23:05:02 2003 Message-Id: From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: broken URL or URL wrapping Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 23:04:57 EDT Hi John, >I think you might find that the issue wasn't >an extra space, rather the fact that the >e-mail client wraps around the URL and >breaks the continuity. This also happened >to the latest link you posted. I use MS >Outlook as my client - by deleting the >space you just moved the breakpoint. Actually, there's a little more to it. It's really interesting having email access through several "vantage points" or "access methods"... it gives the ability to see how the same email looks under various "client software". The original URL link did indeed have a blank space in it (a blank space, not an "extra space") instead of the underscore character, as it appeared in my AOL Netmail portal. It wasn't word-wrapped as viewed through AOL Netmail portal... it was all on one line, and indeed there was a blank space. Obviously, the URL did not work. The same message, as it appears through the regular AOL 7.0 client software, was indeed word-warpped. Copying the whole word-warpped URL (both lines) and pasting to the Internet Explorer browser line, works in most cases to put the two parts together into a single complete URL. However, when this is tried in this case, the blank space appears instead of an underscore, just as before, and the URL does not work. In the URL that I sent out... it did indeed word-wrap, at a different point... have no control over that... it's AOL's mail doing it. However, when I copy and paste both lines of that word-wrapped URL and paste it into the browser, I get the correct address without the blank space, and the URL works. It should be noted, that the "breakpoint" in the URL, for the same message, can be different depending on what email viewing venue one is using. I have to assume in the case with Mary Sue's original email, that the breakpoint happened right at the last underscore character, misinterpreting the character as a blank space, thus giving the erroneous result. The long and short of it, I copied a version of the image in question, and shortened the URL. I'm guessing, but the following URL should not wrap, and should work: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium_flav_colors.jpg Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From katylesser@hotmail.com Sun Jul 6 11:19:48 2003 Message-Id: From: "Katherine Lesser" Subject: oxalis Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:19:44 -0400 i have been successfully growing many varieties of oxalis for years. at first i had them potten inside, since i live in northern vermont where winters are harsh and oxalis will not winter-over. my success has been so great, that i now plant them outside for the summer and let them die off in fall, bringing inside enough to enjoy all winter and then plant outside again in spring. last winter, i travelled to some of the greek islands where oxalis covers the rugged hills. naturally i smuggled a small oxalis back into the country (don't tell) thinking i would have yet another variety in my collection. but to my amazement , i could NOT get this one to grow. i finally gave up in march, and the pot that had the specimen in it went out into the garage, soil and all. yesterday, while potting a plant i knocked the soil from the deal oxalis out of the pot, and found some little nut-like things in the soil. they are not the juicy tuberous roots....but small acorn-shaped things, very alive. no sprouts. what are these and is there a chance i can get my greek oxalis going again? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Jul 6 13:23:12 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706101718.00b9c6c0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: oxalis Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 10:23:05 -0700 Katy Lesser wrote, > i travelled to some of the greek islands where oxalis covers the rugged > hills. naturally i smuggled a small oxalis back into the country (don't > tell) thinking i would have yet another variety in my collection. but to > my amazement , i could NOT get this one to grow. >i finally gave up in march, and the pot that had the specimen in it went >out into the garage, soil and all. yesterday, while potting a plant i >knocked the soil from the deal oxalis out of the pot, and found some >little nut-like things in the soil. they are not the juicy tuberous >roots....but small acorn-shaped things, very alive. no sprouts. what are >these and is there a chance i can get my greek oxalis going again? Before you try, be sure that what you have is not one of the many (seven, according to Polunin's guide) introduced weed species. The "little nutlike things" are bulbils, which are found on most of introduced species. The most likely one that you got is O. pes-caprae, or "Bermuda buttercup," a ferocious weed in California, native to South Africa. It has big yellow flowers and basal bulbils. The only species I see described as native to the region is O. acetosella, which has white (or pinkish) flowers that are quite small. I don't know if any of these pests would survive outdoors in Vermont, but if I lived there I would not risk it! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Sun Jul 6 13:39:30 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030706100039.00d39100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: oxalis Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 10:38:54 -0700 Dear Katy, First welcome to the PBS list! You will find a number of us here who are very fond of Oxalis in spite of its weedy tendencies. I have 3 species in bloom right now all courtesy of Uli in Germany (sent in the past when you could do that without a certificate). My experience with Oxalis has been that like many other bulbs I grow that some of them choose not to come up some years. When I dump the pots, they are there and look fine. I once asked about Moraeas, what are they doing down there and Rachel Saunders speculated, "absolutely nothing." Since then I have dumped pots out where there was no activity and found that quite often that was true. Other times however (not usually) bulbs had roots and were growing but never broke the surface. Could they be too deep? I don't know but remain curious. I am afraid I grow too many things to have kept track of what has happened to all of those who are sulking or waiting for conditions more to their liking. Some Oxalis that hasn't come up one year has the next, but others when examined closely have a hard shell that encloses nothing. Do the acorn-like things in your soil look like what you brought back? Oxalis is very variable in the forms of its under ground storage organ. If this looks like the same thing you remember you could try to mimic its natural cycle. Lee Poulsen has plotted some rainfall graphs and I think there is at least one Mediterranean one here and the link to another source where you might find the islands: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/RainfallGraphs It might come up in the fall as I'd assume it would be winter growing. It wouldn't hurt to try if it was something you really wanted. Which ones do you grow successfully inside? I'd think a lot of the South African species wouldn't get enough light indoors. I know ones I donated to the Mendocino Coast Botanical Gardens where some large trees from adjacent properties are beginning to shade the area where the bulbs are displayed got very leggy. I am sure that many of our members would be interested in knowing what works. I will be sharing more of my extras with the BX soon and people from colder climates could try them inside if it would work. One I have a whole lot of is Oxalis glabra that is blooming in Australia right now. Lyn Edwards just added her picture to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oglabra.jpg One of the nice things about her picture is that you can see both leaves and flowers. So often getting both in focus is tricky and since the leaves are much more variable than the flowers it is nice to see both (and in one picture.) This one produces a lot of very tiny bulbs or are they corms? I think they'd be too tiny to slice through to find out. You'd think they wouldn't be big enough to bloom, but they do. We've concluded with as many offsets as it makes that growing it in a container is the way to go. They might be weedy in warm climates and wouldn't survive the cold in cold ones. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From dells@voicenet.com Sun Jul 6 14:23:27 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 32 Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 14:24:58 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 32" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer for your order. This is a charge to defray costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. From Paul Tyerman: SEED: 1. Haemanthus coccineus - Red "paint brush" flowers in autumn before the 2 large leaves appear. Summer dormant. 2. Cardiocrinum giganteum - Tall member of the lilium family. Large white trumpets, with chocolate throats and strong perfume, on stems 2.5 - 4m tall. Leaves are a fleshy arrowhead shape a bit like an arum lily. Winter dormant. 3. Oxalis carnosa - not technically a bulb, but rather a caudiciform "sub-shrub" that forms succulent stems. Profuse flowers for months and months on end (has been flowering here since November) but does produce seed. In colder climates I doubt there would be any problem at all, but in warm areas with no frost I imagine it could grow rather healthily. 4. Dierama (large white) - "Fairy Fishing Rod" with large white flowers hanging from stems around 6-7 foot tall. Evergreen. 5. Dierama (dark purple) - "Fairy Fishing Rod" with slightly smaller deep purple flowers hanging from stems around 6 foot tall. Evergreen. 6. Moraea huttonii - Iris relative that has 3 foot tall stems bearing a succession of yellow flowers with brown heart and veining. Relative of Moraea spathulata but much more delicate. Evergreen. From Mary Sue Ittner: SEED: 7. Albuca flaccida (was A. canadensis) Produces a lot of seed so there should be enough for anyone who wants it. Winter growing, yellow-green, fragrant. 8. Babiana sp.--Sorry I can't remember which one this is. Winter growing, South Africa. 9. Chasmanthe aethiopica-South Africa, winter growing 10. Geissorhiza monanthos--Gorgeous little flower with interesting markings. Visit it on the Geissorhiza wiki page. Needs good water during its winter growing period. South African 11. Romulea diversiformis--Yellow, winter growing, South Africa 12. Tritelea ixioides ssp. scabra 'Tiger'--although I know you aren't supposed to add a cultivar name on seed since who knows what you can get, Diana thinks this one should be a separate species. It blooms very early and is an absolutely wonderful plant. See it on the wiki. I have pictures of it and Mark has uploaded some too that may be soon on the Triteleia page. Since it blooms before the others it probably hasn't hybridized. (in bloom this past year for me from Jan-March, much later for Mark) Thank you, Paul and Mary Sue !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From katylesser@hotmail.com Sun Jul 6 20:17:29 2003 Message-Id: From: "Katherine Lesser" Subject: oxalis Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:17:27 -0400 thank you so much for getting back to me! i am really amazed at the response i've gotten from that one little email. nice to know there are kindred oxalis spirits out there. so here i am with this little acorn-shaped corm-y thing. will it grow? if so how? i am usually able to grow anything, and have extensive gardens and many house plants. my oxalis are strictly indoor plants, since i am in northern vermont where winters are harsh. right now, all the oxalis are outside, adoring the summer weather, but come fall, they will retreat to the window sills. i am sort of sentimental about the plants i smuggle back into the u.s., and so even if that greek oxalis is just a weed (and it must be, because it was everywhere on that island i went to) i want to get it going. thanks, katy in vermont _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From katylesser@hotmail.com Sun Jul 6 20:19:44 2003 Message-Id: From: "Katherine Lesser" Subject: oxalis Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:19:42 -0400 hi there, i have no intention of introducing this plant to the outdoors. it wouldn't survive northern vermont winters anyway. i am only sentimental because on the island of sifnos, greece, this little oxalis is everywhere and quite beautiful. so what do i do with this little corm or bulb that survived? will it become a plant? if so, how do i get it going? thanks, katy _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From katylesser@hotmail.com Sun Jul 6 20:22:07 2003 Message-Id: From: "Katherine Lesser" Subject: oxalis Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:22:06 -0400 testing _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 7 02:08:59 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030706230535.00ca22a0@mail.mcn.org> From: "Julian Slade" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Albuca--TOW Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:06:49 -0700 Albuca is a genus of 60 to 70 species belonging to the Hyacinthaceae family, to be precise in the subfamily Ornithogaloideae. It is apparently most closely related to Ornithogalum subgenus Osmyne (alternatively treated as genus Coilonox). All Albuca species grow from bulbs, and most have a dormancy period after flowering whereby they lose their leaves. The flower scape is, like almost all Hyacinthaceae, unbranched. Most species only produce one scape per growing season, although some, such as A. flaccida and A. maxima, may produce two or more; the tropical African species may produce scape after scape after scape in optimal conditions. The majority of species are winter-growers, mainly originating from the south-west Cape and northwards into Namaqualand, South Africa. The genus also extends into tropical Africa and Arabia, where there are comparatively fewer species. The most characteristic feature of the genus is the shape of the flower. The outer 3 tepals spread out like any normal flower, but the inner 3 stay more or less closed. The general appearance is therefore somewhat like a snowdrop (Galanthus). The flowers do come in a limited color range, white and yellow through to green, but are usually embellished with a green stripe down the middle of each outer tepal. Some species also have the tips of the inner, closed tepals colored differently, either with white or bright yellow. Flowers are either presented in a nodding or drooping formation, or erect on firm pedicels (flowerstalks). The tropical African species, on the other hand, have flowers on such short pedicels that the only position they can hold is sideways. Another interesting floral feature lies in the anthers (pollen sacs). In most species, three alternate anthers are noticeably different. They can be slightly shorter but otherwise similar to the other three, or much smaller with limited if any pollen, through to minute remnants or even non-existent. This feature is consistent within each species. Flowers of many species, mainly the white-flowered ones, lack scent, but many of the yellow- to green-flowered species have rich, pleasant perfumes, always difficult to describe precisely. Based on the structure of the flowers, the genus can be subdivided into 4 subgenera: Subgenus Pallastema has long and slender styles, and stamens that are arranged zygomorphically (much like in Lachenalia). The inner tepals tend to be slightly outspread, and the outer tepals not opening as wide as in the other subgenera. This subgenus is tropical African. The other subgenera have thick styles, and stamens arranged actinomorphically (like in Scilla) but bunched close together due to the inner tepals being held more or less shut. Their distribution is biased towards the winter-rainfall area of South Africa, especially the western part. They are distinguished from each other solely in the structure of the tips of the inner tepals: subgenus Albuca has thickened tips attached by a narrowed hinge; subgenus Mitrotepalum has thin hooded tips; and subgenus Falconera has thickened but unhinged tips. Knowing which subgenus a plant belongs to is the only way one can begin to correctly identify it! Although there is not a great diversity in the shape of the flowers, there is however a fascinating range of leaf form. Some species do admittedly have rather uninteresting foliage, others have such unusual leaves that they could be grown as a foliage plant in their own right. Leaves can be boat-shaped, coiled into corkscrew shapes, or narrow and wavy like a slithering snake. Even some of the otherwise uninteresting species have unusual ornamentation on their leaves, the most frequent being numerous, small glands. These glands are like stubble with sticky tips, resulting in the leaves attracting dust and dirt, the occasional small insect and, in gardens, lint and hair! Some of the most noteworthy species are described below: Albuca abyssinica A member of subgenus Pallastema. Flowers yellowish with some green. Flowering any time of the year, particularly in summer. Evergreen to winter-deciduous. Several species, such as A. angolensis and A. melleri, are now considered part of this species. Albuca clanwilliamigloria A member of subgenus Falconera. Flowers drooping, golden yellow, almost orange! Plants very tall, at around 6-7 feet (2 m). Bulb sometimes produces small bulblets. Flowering late winter to spring. Winter-growing, summer-dormant. Albuca flaccida A member of subgenus Albuca. Known for many years as A. canadensis - thankfully this absurd name has now been disallowed! Flowers yellowish green, nodding, strongly and pleasantly perfumed. Flowering late winter and spring. Winter-growing, summer-dormant. This species produces copious seed which is easily dispersed by the wind, and has become naturalized in south-western Australia. Albuca hallii A member of subgenus Albuca. Leaves corkscrew-shaped, glandular. Flowers nodding, yellowish. A dwarf species, growing to only 4-6 inches (10-15 cm) tall. Unique among the winter-growers in flowering in autumn, often before the leaves have fully developed. Not in cultivation (yet!). Albuca humilis A member of subgenus Mitrotepalum. Flowers white with a green stripe which ages to brown, only 1 or 2 in number. Leaves few, very narrow. As its name implies, a dwarf plant, only about 4 inches (10 cm) high. Summer-growing/flowering, winter-dormant. May be cold-hardy. Albuca jacquinii A member of subgenus Falconera. Supposedly a 'form' of A. viscosa. Leaves narrow, glandular, corkscrewed at their tips, otherwise straight. Flowers bright yellow with a green stripe, nodding, rather dainty, strongly and sweetly perfumed. Flower scape quite slender, also glandular. Grows to about 12 inches (30 cm) or more tall. Flowering late winter and early spring. Winter-growing, summer dormant. Has unusually small seeds for an Albuca. Albuca maxima A member of subgenus Albuca. Flowers white with a green stripe, nodding or drooping. Leaves somewhat succulent and rigid, deeply channeled, covered with a gray powdery bloom. Quite tall, 5-6 feet (1.5-1.8 m). Flowering late winter and spring. Winter-growing, with a very short summer dormancy. This species also produces copious seed, and has reportedly become naturalized in Italy. Formerly known as A. altissima. Albuca nelsonii A member of subgenus Mitrotepalum. Flowers erect, white with a green stripe that becomes reddish-brown with age. Leaves evergreen, bright green, narrowly triangular, numerous. Bulb partially exposed above ground, multiplying rapidly. About 3-4 feet (90-120 cm) high. Flowering late spring and early summer. Sometimes incorrectly distributed as A. altissima. Albuca pendula A member of subgenus Pallastema. Flowers yellow-green. Notable in having extremely long (to 6 feet / 2 m), fairly broad, floppy leaves. In its native Arabia it grows on cliff faces, where its leaves can dangle freely. Summer-growing. Albuca shawii A member of subgenus Falconera. Flowers yellow and green, nodding. Leaves narrow, glandular, reputedly smelling of aniseed when crushed! Summer-growing/flowering, winter dormant. A. trichophylla is synonymous. Albuca spiralis A member of subgenus Albuca. Flowers green with pale yellow margins, nodding. Sweetly scented, reportedly of butter and vanilla! Leaves narrow and glandular, wavy like a snake to spirally twisted. Flowering late winter to mid-spring. Winter-growing, summer-dormant. The winter-growing species are cultivated like any other Cape bulb, often with greater ease. Although Albuca maxima does appear to tolerate summer watering it, like all the winter-growing species, fare better kept dry but not hot in summer. Because most species rarely produce offsets, growing from seed is the best way to increase stocks, and is usually the only way to obtain most species. All species, however, are extremely easily raised from seed, sown at about the same time adult plants come into active growth. Fresh seed often germinate within a week of sowing, often with 100% germination. Seedlings usually flower in their third year. Julian Slade From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jul 7 03:11:51 2003 Message-Id: <000c01c34456$4c118a40$9fe02052@VRouter.com> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Albuca--TOW Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:06:32 +0100 Dear Julian, Many thanks for a very useful introduction to a very difficult genus, many species I grow here are still yet to be identified. Most being species from the Eastern Cape and Kwazulu-Natal. >>>>Albuca humilis - May be cold-hardy. Yes this plant is quite hardy, I have a collection of it that originated from Sentinal Peak, South Africa. In its native haunts it will take up to -15C, here it survives outdoors in a gravel bed with temps of -5C; as do all the other species I grow which grow in clay pots outdoors. Albuca shawii is however somewhat short-lived here in the ground and -5C may be its lot. I have 'lots' of seedlings of A. humilis growing on at the moment as this species is very easy from seed. If there is interest in this one I'll donate as many as are needed to the BX later in the year. Has anyone flowered any of the Albuca Grimshaw and Linden collected in South Africa a few yers ago ? Best Wishes, Dave Websites: www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com Address: David Fenwick NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Slade (by way of Mary Sue Ittner)" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 7:06 AM Subject: [pbs] Albuca--TOW > Albuca is a genus of 60 to 70 species belonging to the Hyacinthaceae family, > to be precise in the subfamily Ornithogaloideae. It is apparently most > closely related to Ornithogalum subgenus Osmyne (alternatively treated as > genus Coilonox). > > All Albuca species grow from bulbs, and most have a dormancy period after > flowering whereby they lose their leaves. The flower scape is, like almost > all Hyacinthaceae, unbranched. Most species only produce one scape per > growing season, although some, such as A. flaccida and A. maxima, may > produce two or more; the tropical African species may produce scape after > scape after scape in optimal conditions. The majority of species are > winter-growers, mainly originating from the south-west Cape and northwards > into Namaqualand, South Africa. The genus also extends into tropical Africa > and Arabia, where there are comparatively fewer species. > > The most characteristic feature of the genus is the shape of the flower. The > outer 3 tepals spread out like any normal flower, but the inner 3 stay more > or less closed. The general appearance is therefore somewhat like a snowdrop > (Galanthus). The flowers do come in a limited color range, white and yellow > through to green, but are usually embellished with a green stripe down the > middle of each outer tepal. Some species also have the tips of the inner, > closed tepals colored differently, either with white or bright yellow. > Flowers are either presented in a nodding or drooping formation, or erect on > firm pedicels (flowerstalks). The tropical African species, on the other > hand, have flowers on such short pedicels that the only position they can > hold is sideways. > > Another interesting floral feature lies in the anthers (pollen sacs). In > most species, three alternate anthers are noticeably different. They can be > slightly shorter but otherwise similar to the other three, or much smaller > with limited if any pollen, through to minute remnants or even non-existent. > This feature is consistent within each species. > > Flowers of many species, mainly the white-flowered ones, lack scent, but > many of the yellow- to green-flowered species have rich, pleasant perfumes, > always difficult to describe precisely. > > Based on the structure of the flowers, the genus can be subdivided into 4 > subgenera: > Subgenus Pallastema has long and slender styles, and stamens that are > arranged zygomorphically (much like in Lachenalia). The inner tepals tend to > be slightly outspread, and the outer tepals not opening as wide as in the > other subgenera. This subgenus is tropical African. > The other subgenera have thick styles, and stamens arranged > actinomorphically (like in Scilla) but bunched close together due to the > inner tepals being held more or less shut. Their distribution is biased > towards the winter-rainfall area of South Africa, especially the western > part. They are distinguished from each other solely in the structure of the > tips of the inner tepals: subgenus Albuca has thickened tips attached by a > narrowed hinge; subgenus Mitrotepalum has thin hooded tips; and subgenus > Falconera has thickened but unhinged tips. > Knowing which subgenus a plant belongs to is the only way one can begin to > correctly identify it! > > Although there is not a great diversity in the shape of the flowers, there > is however a fascinating range of leaf form. Some species do admittedly have > rather uninteresting foliage, others have such unusual leaves that they > could be grown as a foliage plant in their own right. Leaves can be > boat-shaped, coiled into corkscrew shapes, or narrow and wavy like a > slithering snake. Even some of the otherwise uninteresting species have > unusual ornamentation on their leaves, the most frequent being numerous, > small glands. These glands are like stubble with sticky tips, resulting in > the leaves attracting dust and dirt, the occasional small insect and, in > gardens, lint and hair! > > Some of the most noteworthy species are described below: > > Albuca abyssinica > A member of subgenus Pallastema. Flowers yellowish with some green. > Flowering any time of the year, particularly in summer. Evergreen to > winter-deciduous. Several species, such as A. angolensis and A. melleri, are > now considered part of this species. > > Albuca clanwilliamigloria > A member of subgenus Falconera. Flowers drooping, golden yellow, almost > orange! Plants very tall, at around 6-7 feet (2 m). Bulb sometimes produces > small bulblets. Flowering late winter to spring. Winter-growing, > summer-dormant. > > Albuca flaccida > A member of subgenus Albuca. Known for many years as A. canadensis - > thankfully this absurd name has now been disallowed! Flowers yellowish > green, nodding, strongly and pleasantly perfumed. Flowering late winter and > spring. Winter-growing, summer-dormant. This species produces copious seed > which is easily dispersed by the wind, and has become naturalized in > south-western Australia. > > Albuca hallii > A member of subgenus Albuca. Leaves corkscrew-shaped, glandular. Flowers > nodding, yellowish. A dwarf species, growing to only 4-6 inches (10-15 cm) > tall. Unique among the winter-growers in flowering in autumn, often before > the leaves have fully developed. Not in cultivation (yet!). > > Albuca humilis > A member of subgenus Mitrotepalum. Flowers white with a green stripe which > ages to brown, only 1 or 2 in number. Leaves few, very narrow. As its name > implies, a dwarf plant, only about 4 inches (10 cm) high. > Summer-growing/flowering, winter-dormant. May be cold-hardy. > > Albuca jacquinii > A member of subgenus Falconera. Supposedly a 'form' of A. viscosa. Leaves > narrow, glandular, corkscrewed at their tips, otherwise straight. Flowers > bright yellow with a green stripe, nodding, rather dainty, strongly and > sweetly perfumed. Flower scape quite slender, also glandular. Grows to about > 12 inches (30 cm) or more tall. Flowering late winter and early spring. > Winter-growing, summer dormant. Has unusually small seeds for an Albuca. > > Albuca maxima > A member of subgenus Albuca. Flowers white with a green stripe, nodding or > drooping. Leaves somewhat succulent and rigid, deeply channeled, covered > with a gray powdery bloom. Quite tall, 5-6 feet (1.5-1.8 m). Flowering late > winter and spring. Winter-growing, with a very short summer dormancy. This > species also produces copious seed, and has reportedly become naturalized in > Italy. Formerly known as A. altissima. > > Albuca nelsonii > A member of subgenus Mitrotepalum. Flowers erect, white with a green stripe > that becomes reddish-brown with age. Leaves evergreen, bright green, > narrowly triangular, numerous. Bulb partially exposed above ground, > multiplying rapidly. About 3-4 feet (90-120 cm) high. Flowering late spring > and early summer. Sometimes incorrectly distributed as A. altissima. > > Albuca pendula > A member of subgenus Pallastema. Flowers yellow-green. Notable in having > extremely long (to 6 feet / 2 m), fairly broad, floppy leaves. In its native > Arabia it grows on cliff faces, where its leaves can dangle freely. > Summer-growing. > > Albuca shawii > A member of subgenus Falconera. Flowers yellow and green, nodding. Leaves > narrow, glandular, reputedly smelling of aniseed when crushed! > Summer-growing/flowering, winter dormant. A. trichophylla is synonymous. > > Albuca spiralis > A member of subgenus Albuca. Flowers green with pale yellow margins, > nodding. Sweetly scented, reportedly of butter and vanilla! Leaves narrow > and glandular, wavy like a snake to spirally twisted. Flowering late winter > to mid-spring. Winter-growing, summer-dormant. > > The winter-growing species are cultivated like any other Cape bulb, often > with greater ease. Although Albuca maxima does appear to tolerate summer > watering it, like all the winter-growing species, fare better kept dry but > not hot in summer. > > Because most species rarely produce offsets, growing from seed is the best > way to increase stocks, and is usually the only way to obtain most species. > All species, however, are extremely easily raised from seed, sown at about > the same time adult plants come into active growth. Fresh seed often > germinate within a week of sowing, often with 100% germination. Seedlings > usually flower in their third year. > > Julian Slade > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/03 From dells@voicenet.com Mon Jul 7 07:38:30 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX CLOSED Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 07:40:25 -0400 Dear All, Supplies of most were small. Only Albuca and Cardiocrinum left. Packages should go out tomorrow or Wednesday. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Jul 7 08:00:36 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Albuca TOW Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:00:33 +0000 Dear Julian et al: Excellent introduction as always, Julian. I would add that seed of albucas has proved useless when old and I suspect that it is among those genera that must be sown very fresh. On the contrary, fresh seed will produce a whole 100% germination, often resulting in far too many seedlings! Albuca is a totally neglected genus and some of them like clamwilliamigloria, spiralis and nelsonii are stunning plants. The undisputed Albuca King is Frank Holford and he has grown Albucas for long and even obtained very interesting hybrids. Perhaps the reason for this is that we see in books and guides one or two species only, mostly flaccida (ex canadense) that is not really breathtaking but variation within the genus is great. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jul 7 11:03:31 2003 Message-Id: <000401c34498$2f732960$9fe02052@VRouter.com> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Albuca TOW Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:58:11 +0100 Alberto and all, Thanks for mentioning Frank Holford, it reminds my to ask if anyone can e-mail me privately with his details, as he ruputedly lives in Cornwall, UK, and not very far away. I had no idea he had also hybridised Albuca. Its actually quite strange, nationally and internationally I've obtained numerous hybrids that have originated from him, eg. Cyrtanthus, and Zantedeschia; but none of his plants circulate locally. I'd like to get in touch as he seems quite and interesting person to meet. Thanks for any help anyone can give. Best Wishes, Dave websites: www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com Address: David Fenwick NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Castillo" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: [pbs] Albuca TOW > Dear Julian et al: > Excellent introduction as always, Julian. I would add > that seed of albucas has proved useless when old and I suspect that it is > among those genera that must be sown very fresh. On the contrary, fresh seed > will produce a whole 100% germination, often resulting in far too many > seedlings! > Albuca is a totally neglected genus and some of them like > clamwilliamigloria, spiralis and nelsonii are stunning plants. The > undisputed Albuca King is Frank Holford and he has grown Albucas for long > and even obtained very interesting hybrids. Perhaps the reason for this is > that we see in books and guides one or two species only, mostly flaccida (ex > canadense) that is not really breathtaking but variation within the genus is > great. > Regards > Alberto > > _________________________________________________________________ > Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: > http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/03 From silverhill@yebo.co.za Mon Jul 7 11:12:39 2003 Message-Id: <033601c3449a$7eb8d2c0$0100a8c0@saunders> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: Albuca TOW Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:14:15 +0200 I am not sure about the non South African species of Albuca, but it is often difficult to differentiate our SA species from Ornithogalum species. In many the seeds are very similar (flat black discs) , the flowers are similar, and we cannot even decide which genus they should be in! John Manning gave us an interesting talk about them recently, and he and many other botanists are beginning to think that the 2 genera are muddled at present, and they need re-arranging. Some Ornithogalums are very different - eg O thyrsoides and dubium, which have tiny black seeds. But others are not. I think that DNA work on them has shown a big group of related species, and some more distant. So it sounds as though there may be a "lumping and splitting" in their taxonomy soon! There are quite a few uninteresting species, but there are also some beauties, and it is a pity to dismiss them all as "not worth growing". There are not many people in the Cape who grow them, and I feel they deserve more attention. I agree with Alberto - we discard all our seed after 12 months - the same with Drimias and Ornithogalums. None of them keep well. Regards Rachel Saunders Cape Town ----- Original Message ----- From: Alberto Castillo To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:00 PM Subject: [pbs] Albuca TOW > Dear Julian et al: > Excellent introduction as always, Julian. I would add > that seed of albucas has proved useless when old and I suspect that it is > among those genera that must be sown very fresh. On the contrary, fresh seed > will produce a whole 100% germination, often resulting in far too many > seedlings! > Albuca is a totally neglected genus and some of them like > clamwilliamigloria, spiralis and nelsonii are stunning plants. The > undisputed Albuca King is Frank Holford and he has grown Albucas for long > and even obtained very interesting hybrids. Perhaps the reason for this is > that we see in books and guides one or two species only, mostly flaccida (ex > canadense) that is not really breathtaking but variation within the genus is > great. > Regards > Alberto > > _________________________________________________________________ > Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: > http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 7 11:32:41 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030707080007.00b2d990@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Albuca--TOW Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:30:14 -0700 Dear All, I have started a wiki page with information from Julian's introduction and have added a few pictures. Paul Tyerman shared some of his and we had a couple. Hopefully some of the rest of you will have some to add as well. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Albuca When we were in South Africa we saw what we thought of as Albuca a lot although some of them could have been Ornithogalum. Since it wasn't something I grew much of and they weren't always in our field guides I didn't attempt to figure them out. But they seemed to be widespread in the Cape. The most interesting habitat we saw was in Clanwilliam where we saw them growing (and blooming) in the gutters on a roof (obviously not needing depth.) I have one surviving Albuca nelsonii I planted in the ground where it gets a lot of water in winter and not as much in summer. We water it, but I suspect the redwood roots suck up the water we add. It has only bloomed once for me and unfortunately I didn't get a picture of it them. I remember people writing very positively about it on the old IBS list a number of years ago. Since it is a summer rainfall species it probably doesn't like my Mediterranean climate. I have found that Albuca grown from seed doesn't always go dormant that first year and have been unsure what to do with it. Should you continue to water it or force a dormancy? One I kept going when it did finally go dormant, stayed dormant although the bulbs are still alive. Sometimes the same thing happens for Ornithogalum so any advice on this would be appreciated. When I received a lot of Albuca seeds from a BX I tried floating some and they did germinate that way, but I ended up with more survivors sowing in my usual way. Are people who are fans of Galanthus also fans of Albuca? Many of them look alike. One wonders what relationship dna will show them to have. Finally I scanned in these pictures from my slides of our trip to South Africa and before I put them on a wiki page wonder if anyone could help me confirm identification of them? If they are in doubt I may just take them off later. This picture was taken at Springbok in Namaqualand on a wet day and there weren't flowers, but I am wondering it the leaves could have belonged to Albuca spiralis. Hope I didn't make this too long so it won't wrap? I didn't want to title it as the sure thing. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Albuca_spiralis_leaves-query.jpg This one was taken between Citrusel and Clanwilliam and isn't in the field guide for the area, but maybe is just A. flaccida? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Albuca_sp.3.jpg These last two are of the same plant and I originally thought it was an Albuca, but now I am wondering if it could have been an Ornithogalum? Found near the West Coast blooming September 2001. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Albuca_sp.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Albuca_sp2.jpg Thanks for any help. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 7 11:37:06 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030707083533.00d7fe60@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Albuca leaves?--Sorry for mistaken url Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:36:43 -0700 Dear All, Sorry about that. I sent the message before checking, my links. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Albuca_spiralis-leaves-query.jpg Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Jul 7 14:34:43 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Albuca in KC Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:54:31 -0500 Dear All; The only Albuca I grow is A altissima. It does multiply by bulb division and has been acceptable in pots in a frost free greenhouse. Any one else grow this one? Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 7 12:12:51 2003 Message-Id: <3F099ABF.59FB22EE@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Albuca TOW Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:07:27 -0700 Dear David: Have you tried the Agricultural people in Cornwall? He might be on their list as no doubt he has exported and consequently applied for phytosanitary certificates. Another possibility would be other major growers in Cornwall and the RHS, and last but not least directory inquiries, but they may need a town to check. Cheers, John E Bryan David Fenwick wrote: > > Alberto and all, > Thanks for mentioning Frank Holford, it reminds my to ask if anyone can > e-mail me privately with his details, as he ruputedly lives in Cornwall, UK, > and not very far away. I had no idea he had also hybridised Albuca. > > Its actually quite strange, nationally and internationally I've obtained > numerous hybrids that have originated from him, eg. Cyrtanthus, and > Zantedeschia; but none of his plants circulate locally. > > I'd like to get in touch as he seems quite and interesting person to meet. > > Thanks for any help anyone can give. > > Best Wishes, > Dave > > websites: > www.theafricangarden.com > www.crocosmiaheritage.com > > Address: > David Fenwick > NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia > The African Garden > 96 Wasdale Gardens > Estover > Plymouth > Devon > England > PL6 8TW > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alberto Castillo" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 1:00 PM > Subject: [pbs] Albuca TOW > > > Dear Julian et al: > > Excellent introduction as always, Julian. I would > add > > that seed of albucas has proved useless when old and I suspect that it is > > among those genera that must be sown very fresh. On the contrary, fresh > seed > > will produce a whole 100% germination, often resulting in far too many > > seedlings! > > Albuca is a totally neglected genus and some of them like > > clamwilliamigloria, spiralis and nelsonii are stunning plants. The > > undisputed Albuca King is Frank Holford and he has grown Albucas for long > > and even obtained very interesting hybrids. Perhaps the reason for this is > > that we see in books and guides one or two species only, mostly flaccida > (ex > > canadense) that is not really breathtaking but variation within the genus > is > > great. > > Regards > > Alberto > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: > > http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/03 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jul 7 13:35:27 2003 Message-Id: <000a01c344ad$69d05dc0$9fe02052@VRouter.com> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Albuca TOW Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:30:08 +0100 Hi John, >>>>Have you tried the Agricultural people in Cornwall? From what I've heard Frank is an amateur breeder, I've a rough idea where he lives it's just getting the rest of the info. to make contact. It's very strange that literally no-one in the area I know knows of him, and as you can imagine I know most people that have anything to do with bulbs, commercially and non-commercially. Best Wishes and Thanks, Dave Websites: www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com Address: David Fenwick NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bryan" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Albuca TOW > Dear David: > Have you tried the Agricultural people in Cornwall? He might be on their > list as no doubt he has exported and consequently applied for > phytosanitary certificates. Another possibility would be other major > growers in Cornwall and the RHS, and last but not least directory > inquiries, but they may need a town to check. Cheers, John E Bryan > > David Fenwick wrote: > > > > Alberto and all, > > Thanks for mentioning Frank Holford, it reminds my to ask if anyone can > > e-mail me privately with his details, as he ruputedly lives in Cornwall, UK, > > and not very far away. I had no idea he had also hybridised Albuca. > > > > Its actually quite strange, nationally and internationally I've obtained > > numerous hybrids that have originated from him, eg. Cyrtanthus, and > > Zantedeschia; but none of his plants circulate locally. > > > > I'd like to get in touch as he seems quite and interesting person to meet. > > > > Thanks for any help anyone can give. > > > > Best Wishes, > > Dave > > > > websites: > > www.theafricangarden.com > > www.crocosmiaheritage.com > > > > Address: > > David Fenwick > > NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia > > The African Garden > > 96 Wasdale Gardens > > Estover > > Plymouth > > Devon > > England > > PL6 8TW > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alberto Castillo" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 1:00 PM > > Subject: [pbs] Albuca TOW > > > > > Dear Julian et al: > > > Excellent introduction as always, Julian. I would > > add > > > that seed of albucas has proved useless when old and I suspect that it is > > > among those genera that must be sown very fresh. On the contrary, fresh > > seed > > > will produce a whole 100% germination, often resulting in far too many > > > seedlings! > > > Albuca is a totally neglected genus and some of them like > > > clamwilliamigloria, spiralis and nelsonii are stunning plants. The > > > undisputed Albuca King is Frank Holford and he has grown Albucas for long > > > and even obtained very interesting hybrids. Perhaps the reason for this is > > > that we see in books and guides one or two species only, mostly flaccida > > (ex > > > canadense) that is not really breathtaking but variation within the genus > > is > > > great. > > > Regards > > > Alberto > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: > > > http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/03 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/03 From dells@voicenet.com Mon Jul 7 14:32:36 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Re-posting: PBS Anniversary Sale Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:34:17 -0400 Dear PBS List Members, About a year ago, the Pacific Bulb Society posted its first BX offering. Since then, we have offered more than thirty opportunities for members of the PBS to obtain seed and bulbs which have have been donated for sharing. In celebration of the bounty of our first year, we now offer to ALL PARTICIPANTS OF THIS LIST, whether you are members of the PBS or not, seeds and bulbs from the catalogue shown below. The charge is $1.00 per packet. Please order as many packets as you like (multiple packets of one type are allowed). THE MINIMUM ORDER IS FIVE PACKETS. Please send your order, snail mail address, and payment in US currency or check via SNAIL MAIL to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA 18928, USA. The charge defrays our expenses for packing and first class postage. Availability is on a first-come-first-served basis, so please list alternate selections. We cannot give refunds. WE MUST RECEIVE ORDERS BY 23 JULY 2003. If you would like to join the PBS and enjoy regular BX offerings as well as our lively discussion forum, informative and friendly newsletter, and enlightened get-togethers, go to our website at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ANNIVERSARY OFFERINGS FROM THE PACIFIC BULB SOCIETY: Seed (unless otherwise indicated): Albuca flaccida (syn A. candensis) Allium schubertii Allium tuberosum Alstroemeria hybrids Alstroemeria psitticina Bulbinella cauda-felis (white) Cardiocrinum giganteum Cyanella hyacinthoides Dahlia coccinea var palmeri Eremurus himalaicus Freesia alba Freesia muirii Freesia sp. Freesia xanthospila, green flowers Gladiolus carneus blandus Gladiolus scullyi Gladiolus tristis Gynandriris simularis Gynandriris sp., small, violet Habranthus tubispathus var tubispathus Hesperantha baurii Hippeastrum papilio Iris spuria 'Tiger Blues' Iris spuria, Eleanor McCann's 'Imperial Bronze' Iris spuria, mixed white, yellow, violet-blue Kniphofia uvaria Lachenalia mutabilis Lachenalia sp., blue Lachenalia sp., creamy white & green Lachenalia sp., lilac Lapeirousia enigmata Lilium formosanum pricei Lilium hybrid, 'Moonlight' x L. suphureum Lilium hybrid, 'White Tetra Trumpets' Melasphaerula ramosa Moraea polyanthos Moraea thompsonii Moraea, mixed species, CORMS; 5/pkt. Ornithogalum saundersiae Ornithogalum sp., yellow Romulea atrandra var. esterhuyziae Romulea hartungii Romulea tortuosa var. tortuosa Scilla peruviana Sparaxis hybrids, mixed Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Jul 7 17:21:55 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030707161955.021c6920@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Albuca in KC Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:21:54 -0500 Hi all, I have something labeled as "Albuca altissima ?" that grows and bloomed in a large container in the frost-free greenhouse over winter and in its pot outdoors in summer. (winter dormant, summer growing). This was its first year to bloom. Jim Shields in central Indiana At 10:54 AM 7/7/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Dear All; > The only Albuca I grow is A altissima. It does multiply by bulb > division and has been acceptable in pots in a frost free greenhouse. > Any one else grow this one? > > Jim W. >-- >Dr. James W. Waddick >8871 NW Brostrom Rd. >Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >USA >Ph. 816-746-1949 >E-fax 419-781-8594 > >Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From theafricangarden@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jul 7 17:30:15 2003 Message-Id: <001201c344ce$34238280$9fe02052@VRouter.com> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Frank Holford. Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:24:41 +0100 Dear All, Many thanks to those that have kindly provided contact details for Frank Holford. Best Wishes, Dave Fenwick (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/03 From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Jul 7 21:53:21 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Albuca in KC Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 01:53:20 +0000 Hi Jim: The one I grow under that name is tall, white flowered, beautiful and winter grower/summer dormant. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 7 23:38:23 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030707202700.00d8dc70@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Albuca in KC Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:35:23 -0700 Dear All, Julian said in his introduction that Albuca altissima is an old name for A. maxima. Perhaps since he keeps up to date with all the changes he can tell us if there used to be a species by that previous name that is now included in A. maxima that came from a specific area or if Albuca maxima is just a new name. The Cape Encyclopedia describes A. maxima as being found in most of the different areas described. It sounds like Jim Shields has his growing on a different cycle if it is the same plant. Mary Sue From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Jul 8 03:22:03 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030708172626.020d2a30@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Albuca altissima Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:26:26 +1000 At 10:54 7/07/03 -0500, you wrote: >Dear All; > The only Albuca I grow is A altissima. It does multiply by >bulb division and has been acceptable in pots in a frost free >greenhouse. > Any one else grow this one? > Jim, I do. Grows happily here outside without any problem from our frosts (down to -8'C). It has flowered for me once in an 8 inch pot and reached about 6 foot tall, but I have heard reports that they grow up to 10ft tall in the right conditions. A picture of that one has been posted on the WIKI if anyone is interested. As it happens I am about to send off some more seed to Dell for the BX and one of the items will be Albuca altissima harvested from my plant when it last flowered. Some of it that I sowed a while back germinated VERY well so it should be easy for others who are interested in it. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Jul 8 03:28:22 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030708173245.007e9c10@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Albuca altissima (addition) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:32:45 +1000 Howdy again All, I forgot to mention that mine too is white (as in the wiki picture) and is more or less summer dormant/winter growing although after flowering in November 2001 it actually waited until February of this year (i.e about 14 months since it set its seed) when it finally shot, so it is slightly out of whack as it came up in the middle of summer. It has now divided into two and is growing fine, despite skipping an entire growing season. I do not know if this is normal, caused by our drought, or a product of flowering in a pot? I was very pleased to see it return as it was very striking with its height and flowers when out. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 8 10:29:31 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030708071454.01b21bb0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: oxalis Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 07:21:54 -0700 Dear Katy, I am sorry that my answer to you wasn't clear. It is hard to know what experience a new member has. If we assume that this is an Oxalis from South Africa as Jane suggests and one that is winter growing and dormant in summer, you will need to grow it in a container to protect it from the cold. You can pot it now, but wait to water it or repot it in August. Use a well drained mix that has a lot of coarse sand or pumice or perlite in it. Plant a couple inches deep. Start watering in late August. When it gets cold in Vermont, bring it inside and grow it in your brightest spot. You may need to put it under lights so it won't get to leggy. On days that the temperature is above freezing and there is good sunshine put it outside. But be sure you bring it inside if it is going to be really cold. Once it starts into growth make sure it gets adequate water, but not too much. South Africa Oxalis from winter rainfall areas go dormant early if they dry out. Many of them expand dramatically and need to be repotted regularly. Good luck. It sounds like the others you grow may be evergreen, but most of the ones I grow have a dormancy. Mary Sue >so here i am with this little acorn-shaped corm-y thing. will it >grow? if so how? From katylesser@hotmail.com Tue Jul 8 13:28:44 2003 Message-Id: From: "Katherine Lesser" Subject: oxalis Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:11:29 -0400 interesting! dormancy makes total sense to me. i put the little bulblet back in the pot, gave it a small drink and will let it sit until late august, as you suggested. thanks for getting back to a member who is not a scientist, just a person who adores growing things. katy _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From katylesser@hotmail.com Tue Jul 8 15:26:13 2003 Message-Id: From: "Katherine Lesser" Subject: oxalis Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:09:39 -0400 thanks for the oxalis response. i've gotten many good letters from kindred growers! i will do as you say, and wait for august. katy _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From ajbroome@xtra.co.nz Tue Jul 8 16:40:59 2003 Message-Id: <20030708204056.BHA22779.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> From: Subject: oxalis Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 8:40:56 +1200 Mary Sue said... > If we assume that this is an Oxalis from South Africa > as Jane suggests and one that is winter growing and > dormant in summer... The common Oxalis in Greece seems to be O. pes-caprae and while it *is* South African it doesn't necessarily behave like the winter growing species. I've no real experience with its cultivation though, especially in a cold climate. Andrew. From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Tue Jul 8 18:36:21 2003 Message-Id: <19a14E-1buFgj0@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: TOW Albuca Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 00:36:10 +0200 Dear All, I agree that Albuca is an underrated genus that needs more widespread cultivation. However I find it difficult to accomodate those large pots of wintergrowing Albucas full of floppy leaves in the greenhouse and I also find it inconvenient to have them in flower in spring when the greenhouse is bursting with young plants and many flowers anyway. How many summer flowering species (or hybrids???) are there that are suitable for pot culture or temporary cultivation in the open soil in the garden? Could they be dug up and stored dormant in winter? Does anybody have experience with Albuca bulbs cultivated like let's say a Galtonia? If pot grown plants would be winter dormant their size would not matter, on the contrary I would appreciate large tubs with many scapes preferably scented and of a good size to be good focal plants. In my climate I would not expect Albucas to be reliably hardy so greenhouse or pot culture is necessary. Does anybody know of sources for summergrowing Albucas or is anybody willing to swap or sell them? At present the number of Albucas I grow is limited to 3: A. aurea, not really yellow but rather green, not scented and I will probably stop growing this. A single bulb of A angolensis with long channelled leaves clad in long soft hairs (I would love more bulbs of this species) and a large bulb from South Africa with upright facing flowers in a greenish yellow and with a wonderful scent, but it had an almost two year long dormany, only just showing some green leaf tips........ Greetings form Germany, Uli From Arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Jul 8 22:03:58 2003 Message-Id: <3F0B780E.1070904@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Subject: Questions about coir and slag Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:03:58 -0400 I have two questions that I hope can be answered by someone in the group. 1. Where can I buy coir, the coconut fiber to use as an amendment to my potting mix. 2. I picked up some slag ( Black Beauty) and would like to use it to dress some potted tender bulbs that I place outdoors for the summer. I know it is basically pure iron, any down sides to using it like leaching poisons in to the soil.. Arnold From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Tue Jul 8 22:34:36 2003 Message-Id: <3F0B7F38.6050605@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Questions about coir and slag Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:34:32 -0500 Arnold: You may want to consider Home Harvest as a possible source. I have always found their prices fairly competitive, but I have never bought their coir products. http://www.homeharvest.com/soilconditionerspeat.htm Just found http://www.vgrove.com/ which looks like a good pricing, maybe???? I buy a completed mix by Scotts using coir instead of sphagnum, delivered from Hummert, http://www.hummert.com/ Arnold wrote: > 1. Where can I buy coir, the coconut fiber to use as an amendment to > my potting mix. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Jul 9 16:45:29 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Albuca in KC Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:34:13 -0500 >Julian said in his introduction that Albuca altissima is an old name >for A. maxima. Dear Mary Sue and all; Sounds like a lot of us have not quite been up to date (or like me skipped Julian's info). I am glad to put its proper name in place. Mine doesn't approach 5 ft, but maybe 3 ft in a pot in a cold climate cool greenhouse. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Wed Jul 9 17:36:11 2003 Message-Id: <14f.21365359.2c3de4c6@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Sparaxis closeup added to Wiki Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:36:06 EDT http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Sparaxis_grandiflora_ssp_grandiflora.jpg Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142 www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Jul 10 08:33:01 2003 Message-Id: <001d01c346df$bc3754e0$b06a2241@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Questions about coir and slag Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:35:23 -0400 Arnold and Kelly, I have found that is excellent as the primary component of a mix, not just an ammendment. It is a little expensive, but it last much longer than peat mixes. And hosts less diseases. It can be keep dry to grow mediterranean bulbs or wet to grow aquatics.Quite versatile. The more you buy the cheaper. The big bales are yur best best bet for the $. I have thought about importing it to sell (the small cubes)w/ my plants. Best, Kevin Preuss web.tampabay.rr.com/griffinialand/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Irvin" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Questions about coir and slag > Arnold: > > You may want to consider Home Harvest as a possible source. I have > always found their prices fairly competitive, but I have never bought > their coir products. http://www.homeharvest.com/soilconditionerspeat.htm > > Just found http://www.vgrove.com/ which looks like a good pricing, maybe???? > > I buy a completed mix by Scotts using coir instead of sphagnum, > delivered from Hummert, http://www.hummert.com/ > > Arnold wrote: > > > 1. Where can I buy coir, the coconut fiber to use as an amendment to > > my potting mix. > > -- > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > The Bulbmeister > 4407 Town Vu Road > Bentonville, AR 72712 > 479-685-1339 > > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b > > E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com > Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ > Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From ianandlizz@btinternet.com Thu Jul 10 16:50:52 2003 Message-Id: <002601c34724$f3708c20$215a8351@home51u2srx9b8> From: "lizz hunt" Subject: Albuca - better late than never Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:50:51 +0100 Just a quick line about Albucas. I currently grow three species all of which have proved hardy here. Albuca humilis is a dwarf form, up to 8 inches, with white flowers striped green. Albuca shawii is taller at 15 inches plus with yellow flowers striped green and Albuca nykensis has not yet flowered with me but size wise it is a little taller than A. shawii. Regards. Ian. From skylark20@msn.com Thu Jul 10 16:56:18 2003 Message-Id: From: "ROBERT PARKER" Subject: [PBS] coir mats Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:55:55 -0700 Hail to thee, blithe spirits......! (especially Arnold and Kelly) At a nursery the other day, I acquired a coir hanging basket liner, with the intent of cutting it up to fit into 4" square plastic pots on the bottom , to contain the potting soil from coming out of all those holes that manufacturers seem to think are needed for drainage. In the old days, I used sphagnum moss crammed into the pots and it worked very well. I can't always find bags of sm nowadays, so I hit upon the use of SHOP TOWELS. These are rolls of thick blue paper towels available at Albertson's and most Hardware stores. I cut each in quarters, fold to fit in each square 4" pot, then fill with mix , then plant. It lasts long enough till repotting or transplanting time, and is certainly very economical. The sphagnum moss was ideal, especially when one could find rolls of compressed moss to use in hanging baskets. Some of it always lasted at repotting and could be used again. Also roots could be dislodged from it with minimal damage. Prior to this I used wire screening cut-to-fit in the bottom of the pots, but at repotting time root damage was excessive. My current method is dictated by the amount of things to be potted up. Since becoming a PBS member, and being a staunch supporter of the BX offerings - (WHAT an understatement!) I now purchase pots by the case, SUPERSOIL by the ten bag lots, sand by the six bag lots (they're so HEAVY!) and I now suffer from carpel tunnel syndrome from all the labels and lists that must be made. I owe all of this to that warlock Jim Waddick, who suggested to me that I purchase a computer, from which I learned about PBS, and through the loving and benign help (or is it wicked and malign - since it has become almost an obsession) of Cathy Craig and Mary Sue Ittner, among others, to try planting things I never tried before. Today is totally different from the way things were when I started. Working with 40 to 50 pots at a clip, I no sooner finish a session, when another BX offering pops up - sometimes three in one month! when I must needs (or is that needs must?) start again. In a way, I sometimes laugh out loud when I consider that I started purchasing from the BX mostly to help out the organization which I assumed was small and struggling to make it - WHO KNEW! that it would become the behemoth it threatens to be! To get back to the subject: What I am presently looking for is a source for coir compressed squares say 4" square, which can be popped into a pot prior to filling it with potting soil. Working with large quantities at a time (such as a commercial nursery does) there may be an outlet for such an item - it would save a lot of time, a commodity of which some of us are in short supply. I did explore the websites provide by Kelly (I think) and the vgrove.com/wholesale.htm site offers something called pot covers with no further details. Maybe I should consider the chips? Any info will be greatly appreciated. Also, a source of square 4" pots with NO BOTTOM HOLES - only four slits on the sides like Farrand Jardiniere pots (no longer being made, Farrand informs me) would also be appreciated. ROBERT PBS 10038 U S A - ALL THE WAY !!!Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Jul 10 17:34:51 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: covering pot holes Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:34:49 -0700 I enjoyed your message - amusement for a muggy day. If I'm using the usual sort of peat-based mix, I don't cover the holes unless they are enormous. A sandier mix will come out of the holes - ALL of it will flow out if I haven't wet it before putting it in. I use a single sheet of newspaper - just rip a piece big enough to overlap the hole a bit. This is really easy if the hole is in the centre of the pot, and more fiddly if they are over at the edge. By the time the roots have got down to the paper, it has most likely disintegrated, and by then, the roots are holding the compost in the pot. Diane Whitehead From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Jul 10 18:27:54 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: covering pot holes Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:26:25 -0500 Dear Diane and Robert (Blame me because you are insane !!); I use the lazy method for soil mixes that are inclined to leak from all those pot holes. Coffee filters - Mr Coffee type, not Melitta. They fit 4 inch to gallon pots easily. Last for a year or more. Hardly hold any water and precut. Couldn't be easier. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From GardenPT@aol.com Thu Jul 10 18:30:52 2003 Message-Id: <9c.3346b579.2c3f4310@aol.com> From: GardenPT@aol.com Subject: covering pot holes Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:30:40 EDT And I use fiberglass window screen. (One way to recycle nasty old screens.) Jean in Portland, OR From pbrooks3@sc.rr.com Thu Jul 10 18:47:31 2003 Message-Id: <001501c34735$41540510$6501a8c0@home> From: "Patricia Brooks" Subject: covering pot holes Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:47:34 -0400 I use Dr. Waddick's filter method very easy and if you have larger pots just over lap a few filters Pat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:26 PM Subject: [pbs] Re: covering pot holes > Dear Diane and Robert (Blame me because you are insane !!); > I use the lazy method for soil mixes that are inclined to > leak from all those pot holes. > Coffee filters - Mr Coffee type, not Melitta. They fit 4 inch > to gallon pots easily. Last for a year or more. Hardly hold any water > and precut. Couldn't be easier. > > Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > E-fax 419-781-8594 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Fri Jul 11 00:59:20 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030710210833.00d90950@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: TOW Albuca Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:28:35 -0700 Dear All, We've had a lot of Albuca questions for this topic, but not so many answers. Where are our Albuca experts? Rhoda and Cameron used to sell seeds of Albuca aurea and nelsonii which are evergreen and A. shawii and A. setosa which are summer growing. Albuca shawii was on Julian's list of recommended ones and Ian grows it so perhaps he could take a stab at seeing if it could be grown as Uli suggested (suitable for pot culture or temporary cultivation in the open soil in the garden? Could they be dug up and stored dormant in winter?) Silverhill Seeds also sells seed of a few summer growing species but some of them I looked up were evergreen A. aurea, A. batteniana (that one looks pretty and they describe it as lovely white flowers but also Zone 9), and A. nelsonii. That left these: Albuca angolensis "Green and gold albuca", to 1.3m, flat tapering leaves, sweetly scented bright yellow fl with broad green stripe Sp-Su, med, shade. Sow Sp. Zone 8. This one is pictured in the Eastern Cape field guide. Albuca setosa 40cm, leaves produced after fl, white fl with green to greenish brown central stripe on back Sp. Sow Sp. Zone 7. Or maybe Uli you could talk Ian into some seed since he seems to be growing the species that grow in summer and you both are on the same side of the Atlantic. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Fri Jul 11 00:59:22 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030710212847.00d93c20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Delphinium again Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:58:52 -0700 Dear All, I haven't looked at the roots of this Delphinium, but since it is dormant only briefly it may not be a geophyte, but hopefully you all will indulge me with this question especially if I promise to save seed for the BX. This is a species I grew from NARGS seed identified as Delphinium menziesii. I never tried to key it out since it wasn't in Jepson and besides everyone I have ever talked to has told me that Delphiniums are very difficult to key. When Jane McGary visited me she said she didn't think it was correctly identified and she thought she knew what it was, but couldn't remember. It was possibly a species not from California so she sent me a key for Northwest plants with a little note written on it that a lot of people found the Hitchcock keys very hard to use which didn't inspire me to try. I passed my plant to a good friend of mine who loves to key plants out along with the key and she got busy with her microscope and keys to as many books as she could find and tackled it for me. She grumbled a bit about the key from Jane since she had to look up so many of the words since they weren't even listed as terms in the glossaries of her other books and finally declared the key a nightmare. But she too didn't think the plant was D. menziesii. Her closest guess was D. parryi, but it isn't at all like the one I grow of that from seed Harold Koopowitz gave me. That one is also a beauty, but it blooms in the spring and has a big tall spike and is now dormant and the one in question is a summer bloomer and acts like it wants summer water. In addition it has very distinctive leaves that are much more linear than most Delphinium leaves. It has the most gorgeous blue flowers (for those of you like me who adore blue flowers) and I'd love to know what it is. Some of my books that describe the species don't even mention what color they are and nothing very distinctive about the leaves either (maybe saying if they are basal or hairy, but that's not a whole lot of help). You'd think that if you had a plant this color it just might be worth mentioning. Jepson leaves out when plants bloom which is a very serious limitation of that book in my humble opinion. It's like the botanists want to keep it a secret (or maybe they can't figure them out either.) Can anyone help me? My husband took this picture in mid August last year and I have about 4 pots and they are in different stages of bloom right now. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Delphinium.jpg Mary Sue From julian_slade@bigpond.com Fri Jul 11 04:44:28 2003 Message-Id: <006601c34788$a2a23690$9d898b90@mdcurfkx8oat132> From: "Julian Slade" Subject: Albuca leaves Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:14:25 +0930 Dear Mary Sue Your photo listed as Albuca spiralis probably is this species, but you'll still need flowers to confirm the genus. Also, your species 3 might be A. flaccida; you'l definitely need the key from The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs to verify this. The other photos are definitely not Albuca. It is a species of Ornithogalum subgenus Osmyne (as it is currently classified - may be changed to genus Coilonox). The flowers of this group of species are even less variable than in the very closely related Albuca; the species are mainly distinguished by their leaves, which often are also quite interesting. Regards Julian Slade From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Fri Jul 11 07:56:17 2003 Message-Id: <196.1d232827.2c3fffda@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: [PBS] coir mats Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:56:10 EDT In a message dated 7/10/2003 4:56:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skylark20@msn.com writes: > Also, a source of square 4" pots with NO BOTTOM HOLES - only four slits on > the > sides Summit Plastics, contact them for a local distributor. www.summitplastic.com Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142 www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Jul 11 08:01:02 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030711065203.00ae4dd8@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: TOW Albuca Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:01:00 -0500 Hi all, Besides the Albuca cf. altissima I mentioned earlier, I have plenty of A. shawii, blooming now in a large pot and as weeds in a couple of small (non-Albuca) pots. They set seed freely without my intervention, hence the odd shawii in the wrong pot occasionally. A large pot full of shawii in bloom is fairly attractive on the patio or deck. The A. shawii bulbs can tolerate laying around bare on a bench top for a month or so and will then start to grow as soon as planted in a pot. I don't see why A. shawii could not be planted outdoors in late spring and dug in autumn. I have not tried to grow it outdoors here, and certainly would not try it year round in my climate. I also have odds and ends of unidentified Albuca/Ornithogalum like things, mostly dwarf in stature and none evergreen. The flowers are white with prominent green stripes. I've not had time to try to run any of their identities down yet. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana At 09:28 PM 7/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >We've had a lot of Albuca questions for this topic, but not so many >answers. Where are our Albuca experts? > >Rhoda and Cameron used to sell seeds of Albuca aurea and nelsonii which >are evergreen and A. shawii and A. setosa which are summer growing. Albuca >shawii was on Julian's list of recommended ones and Ian grows it so >perhaps he could take a stab at seeing if it could be grown as Uli >suggested (suitable for pot culture or temporary cultivation in the open >soil in the garden? Could they be dug up and stored dormant in winter?) > >Silverhill Seeds also sells seed of a few summer growing species but some >of them I looked up were evergreen A. aurea, A. batteniana (that one looks >pretty and they describe it as lovely white flowers but also Zone 9), and >A. nelsonii. >That left these: >Albuca angolensis "Green and gold albuca", to 1.3m, flat tapering leaves, >sweetly scented bright yellow fl with broad green stripe Sp-Su, med, >shade. Sow Sp. Zone 8. This one is pictured in the Eastern Cape field guide. >Albuca setosa 40cm, leaves produced after fl, white fl with green to >greenish brown central stripe on back Sp. Sow Sp. Zone 7. > >Or maybe Uli you could talk Ian into some seed since he seems to be >growing the species that grow in summer and you both are on the same side >of the Atlantic. > >Mary Sue > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 11 12:31:45 2003 Message-Id: <3F0EE524.3F9C4FEE@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: [PBS] coir mats Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:26:12 -0700 Robert: May I suggest you contact an orchid grower or the orchid society in your area, they should know where to obtain coir. Cheers, John E. Bryan ROBERT PARKER wrote: > > Hail to thee, blithe spirits......! (especially Arnold and Kelly) > > At a nursery the other day, I acquired a coir hanging basket liner, with the > intent of cutting it up to fit into 4" square plastic pots on the bottom , to > contain the potting soil from coming out of all those holes that manufacturers > seem to think are needed for drainage. In the old days, I used sphagnum moss > crammed into the pots and it worked very well. I can't always find bags of sm > nowadays, so I hit upon the use of SHOP TOWELS. These are rolls of thick > blue paper towels available at Albertson's and most Hardware stores. I cut > each in quarters, fold to fit in each square 4" pot, then fill with mix , then plant. > It lasts long enough till repotting or transplanting time, and is certainly very > economical. > > The sphagnum moss was ideal, especially when one could find rolls of compressed > moss to use in hanging baskets. Some of it always lasted at repotting and could > be used again. Also roots could be dislodged from it with minimal damage. Prior > to this I used wire screening cut-to-fit in the bottom of the pots, but at repotting > time root damage was excessive. > > My current method is dictated by the amount of things to be potted up. Since > becoming a PBS member, and being a staunch supporter of the BX offerings - > (WHAT an understatement!) I now purchase pots by the case, SUPERSOIL by the > ten bag lots, sand by the six bag lots (they're so HEAVY!) and I now suffer from > carpel tunnel syndrome from all the labels and lists that must be made. I owe all > of this to that warlock Jim Waddick, who suggested to me that I purchase a > computer, from which I learned about PBS, and through the loving and benign help > (or is it wicked and malign - since it has become almost an obsession) of Cathy > Craig and Mary Sue Ittner, among others, to try planting things I never tried before. > Today is totally different from the way things were when I started. Working with > 40 to 50 pots at a clip, I no sooner finish a session, when another BX offering pops > up - sometimes three in one month! when I must needs (or is that needs must?) > start again. > > In a way, I sometimes laugh out loud when I consider that I started purchasing from > the BX mostly to help out the organization which I assumed was small and struggling to > make it - WHO KNEW! that it would become the behemoth it threatens to be! > > To get back to the subject: What I am presently looking for is a source for coir > compressed squares say 4" square, which can be popped into a pot prior to filling > it with potting soil. Working with large quantities at a time (such as a commercial > nursery does) there may be an outlet for such an item - it would save a lot of time, > a commodity of which some of us are in short supply. I did explore the websites > provide by Kelly (I think) and the vgrove.com/wholesale.htm site offers something > called pot covers with no further details. Maybe I should consider the chips? > Any info will be greatly appreciated. > > Also, a source of square 4" pots with NO BOTTOM HOLES - only four slits on the > sides like Farrand Jardiniere pots (no longer being made, Farrand informs me) would > also be appreciated. > > ROBERT PBS 10038 > > U S A - ALL THE WAY !!!Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Jul 11 14:58:20 2003 Message-Id: <3F0F08CB.1020406@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Subject: arisaema conanguineum var. "Perfect Wave" Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:58:19 -0400 Received from Seneca Hill Perennials image taken today. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_shoot.JPG Arnold New Jersey From lizwat@earthlink.net Fri Jul 11 18:08:10 2003 Message-Id: <3F0F35BB.816A8CBE@earthlink.net> From: Elizabeth Waterman Subject: arisaema conanguineum Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:10:03 -0700 To SF bay area folks, On the same (almost) subject, the UC Botanic Garden has a  few blooming Ariseama consanguinea for sale at $9 each. Liz   From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Jul 11 18:59:49 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030711174150.00ae2530@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Closing bottoms Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:59:47 -0500 I use sphagnum moss to cover the drainage holes in the bottom of pots. I sometimes use nylon window screen for seed trays, where it works fine for things that don't grow permanent entangling roots into it (like Clivia do). It works great for starting Gladiolus seeds, for instance. The use of newspaper in the bottoms sounds interesting! I will have to try that on the next tray of Clivia seeds I start. The roots of Clivia seedlings rarely fill the seedling pots enough to hold the potting mix inside the pot. Mature clivias are an entirely different story. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Fri Jul 11 19:18:08 2003 Message-Id: <20030711231808.8D62820016@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Subject: sterilizing soil Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:18:07 +0000 Hi all, Would one of those of you who use the microwave to sterilize your soil please send me the details? How much soil, and how long in the microwave? Thanks! Jennifer From dejager@bulbargence.com Sat Jul 12 03:28:55 2003 Message-Id: <3F0FB829.6070000@bulbargence.com> From: Lauw de Jager Subject: TOW Albuca Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:26:33 +0200 Dear All, Also a bit late, I would like you to know that Albucca nelsonii des extremely well here. It grows in three different locations, all sheltered and shaded. The evergreen plant becomes quite massif and flowers during Mai -June, about 100-120cm tall (3-4ft). It has no real bulbs, but more like fleshy leaves on a basal plate. Makes offsets and sets seed. I also grow te smaller species such as A canadensis, humilis et shawii (in flower now) and the wintergrowing A altissima Bye for now Lauw de Jager Johannes-Ulrich Urban wrote: Does anybody have experience with Albuca bulbs - Lauw de Jager BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/ "GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS": 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E Expedition des bulbes à floraison automnale est commencé. Le catalogue d'été est valable jusqu'à fin octobre Région: Provence/Camargue, Climat zone: 9a Mediterranean, dry July-August, peak rainfall in autumn, minimum temps -3-7°C (28-21F) Reference vegetation: Arbutus unedo, Olea europeaea, From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jul 12 21:09:56 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030712180249.00d4a660@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Albuca--TOW Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:09:20 -0700 Dear All, Before we leave this topic I am reasking a question no one answered. I know my messages are too long and some of what I say gets lost. Last year Tom Glavich gave some seed to the BX that I got. It shows no sign of going dormant. Should I just keep it going and maybe pot it up to a bigger pot or should I stop watering it? I've had other Albucas from seed keep going and wonder what others do. One I keep watering and once it went dormant two years later it has remained dormant (but I'm still hopeful.) Here is what Tom said about this BX offering. As I reread his message I realized I started this in fall and he in spring so I guess I should keep it going and let it go dormant this winter. We haven't discussed this one so I am repeating what he said in August last year: The albuca circinata is seed from plants originally from Silverhill (2000 catalog). These are wonderful albucas, The leaves are about 8 inches long, straight and narrow, and then make a single 1/2 loop at the end. Typical albuca flowers, white and green. I grow it for the leaves. I found it necessary to hand pollinate the flowers to get seed. What ever does it in South Africa doesn't come to my back yard. Two years from seed to flower, seed planted in April 2000. They also offset, but not much so far. The plants are young, and like all albucas do better in bigger pots than you might expect. My flowering plants were in 5 x 5 round pots. I haven't tried these in the ground yet, but I'm sure they would do fine. Mary Sue From TGlavich@aol.com Sat Jul 12 23:27:38 2003 Message-Id: From: TGlavich@aol.com Subject: Albuca--TOW Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:27:31 EDT Dear all, The A. circinata are evergreen, but they do stop growing (or at least slow down) once in awhile. They continue to offset for me, and I've seen a seedling that I gave to a friend a few years ago now filling a 10 inch pot. Interestingly enough this spring, which was cold and wet there was little curl at all to the leaves. Now that it much too hot and dry, the curl is returning. Baking in Altadena CA, Tom Glavich From bandula@absamail.co.za Sun Jul 13 04:20:16 2003 Message-Id: <001601c34917$a6fa41c0$875427c4@w98sysrec> From: "Digby Boswell" Subject: Albuca Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:20:39 +0200 Hi all, A bit late for the Albuca's but anyway. I have Albuca rupestris growing in the garden doing very well. Although a large plant (bulb about 5 inches in diameter) it does not seem to mind the cold as it quite happily tollerates -2C. In the field across the road grows Albuca setosa and Albuca pachyclamus in a couple of inches of soil. The whole are is shale. Cheers, Digby Boswell Pietermaritzburg (Zone 6) From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Sun Jul 13 18:59:46 2003 Message-Id: <19bpoi-0BZyhH0@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Topic of the week: Dahlia species and related Genera Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:59:40 +0200 Dear All, Mary Sue Ittner asked me to write about Dahlia species and here is my personal experience about those I grew or grow. In general I find it difficult to obtain true, non hybridized species, maybe this forum brings a welcome change to that problem...... Also I find that naming is often wrong. All Dahlias are easily grown from seed, if treated like tomato seed i.e. given an early germination and then greenhouse treatment until they can be planted out after the last frosts are over. Many of them will flower the first year but not all of them. Some may flower the first year from seed but not reach their eventual height, this only in subsequent years. In cold winter countries the tubers will have to be dug up in autumn, usually after the first frost has destroyed growth. Tubers should be stored cold but frost free and should NOT be totally dry. They may survive total dryness but will suffer. I put mine in large plastic bags only one big tuber per bag. I leave the bag wide open until the surface of the tubers has become totally dry and then close it but not hermetically. I watch for condensating water inside the bag and if this occurs I open it again and let everything dry a bit more for some days. I have had no losses this way. The emerging shoots in spring are in great danger of slug damage, even total loss is possible! Now my experience with some species: Dahlia coccinea var palmeri: This is so far the best Dahlia species I grow: around 2m tall needing no staking even in my exposed garden it has finely dissected leaves which gives the whole plant an elegant and airy appearance. The flowers are single about the size of an ordinary Cosmos but held horizontally. The colour is a bright orange red. It starts flowering in August and becomes better when the weather becomes cooler and moister. It sets plenty of seed (which I have distributed several times) some of it comes up spontaneously in the garden in late spring. The tubers are not hardy, though. It combines beautifully with Asters and late flowering Salvias. When digging up the tubers care must be taken because the tuber itself is attached to the crown via a surprisingly long thin root and thus can be easily dissected. Personally I find the ordinary Dahlia coccinea a less attractive plant than its variety. Dahlia dissecta: Only grown from seed this spring I cannot yet tell a lot: very finely dissected bright green leaves on so far low plants, no flowers yet but looks attractive. The whole plant has an almost succulent look, very nice and dainty so far but no buds as yet. Dahlia imperialis: This giant Dahlia must be beautiful in flower, but I have never seen any except on pictures. (large pink single flowers in large trusses, there is a white form, too) I did grow it for some years hoping for flowers...... but no, it was always killed by frost before. I later learned that D. imperialis is an extreme short day bloomer which means flower buds are only produced when the daily hours of light fall well below 12 hours. By the time the buds develop and the flowers open it is mid winter. I have heard that it may be possible to force this plant to flower earlier by wrapping it with black polythene sheets but have never tried this. (must be quite a job taking its size into account!) This is a very tall plant, up to 4 m in flower and would be a subject for a very large conservatory or the like in cold winter countries. It produces huge compound leaves on a straight thick canelike stem and is worthwile growing for its leaves and its tropical appearance alone. I have seen large plants in growth but not in flower in gardens on the Cote d'Azur in France where it will have the frost free winters to flower. Must be nice in California. My plants were dug up every autumn like ordinary Dahlias but I have stopped growing it. There is a good picture in the same Phillips/Rix boook as well as a most tempting picture of Dahlia excelsa. Does anybody know anything about this plant? Does it behave the same way as Dahlia imperialis, i.e. late flowering? Is it available anywhere? Does anybody know if there has been done some selection or breeding to produce a day-length-neutral, i.e. earlier flowering plant of the same stature? Dahlia laciniata: Same as with Dahlia dissecta, only grown from seed this spring. The leaves look like ordinary garden Dahlia leaves, slighty dark but not purple. The slugs had a good go at them but recovering, no flowers yet, will be taller that D. dissecta. Dahlia merckii: Often seen in English gardens in great beauty, I was not at all sucessful with it here in Germany. I assume that our more continental summers were too hot, the plant went into a strange kind of half dormancy during hot weather and did not flower only until the weather became cool and moist in autumn but then was soon cut down by the first frost. I do not grow it any more. Roger Phillips and Martyn Rix state in their excellent book on Conservatory plants that it comes form Mexico and grows at an altitude around 1600m. It is not that high and not that cool a climate there, so I do not know...... Does anybody else have similar or different experience? Related Genera: There are other genera that look similar to Dahlias and are also often tuberous: Cosmos (often tuberous) and Hidalgoa (not tuberous, the "Climbing Dahlia") The most common tuberous Cosmos probably is C. atrosanguineus. I have so far never managed to restart the tubers in spring. An attractive plant with smallish chocolate coloured and chocolate scented flowers, a bit straggly and prone to mildew in moist weather. All plants available are micro-propagated and sterile, apparently this plant is extinct in the wild. Did anybody ever have seed from this plant? There are other tuberous Cosmos species but they are not in cultivation: do prove me wrong, please.... In Bolivia I collected seed of a dwarf large flowered tuberous Cosmos of which I have two small seedlings...... It grew quite high around 3000m in 'potato growing climate' I can't tell much more yet but will keep you informed. No personal experience and never seen a plant of Hidalgoa, is it an attractive garden plant? So far my (limited) experience with Dahlia species, I thought I will give you a follow-up of this topic in early autumn when I can (hopefully) say more about my novelties. Greetings from Germany, Uli From eagle85@flash.net Sun Jul 13 20:56:17 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: New pic Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:48:58 -0700 I hav just added a picture of Cyrtanthus elatus - "George Lily" - Scarborought Lily" http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Cyrtanthus%20elatus.jpg Doug Westfall From Blee811@aol.com Sun Jul 13 22:25:57 2003 Message-Id: <1dd.dd2603f.2c436eaf@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Crocus tommasinianus question Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:25:51 EDT Can anyone tell me what the mechanism is that makes crocus tommasinianus repellent to rodents? Physiology, scent, taste? It has this reputation and that has also been my experience with it. But what is the reason? Bill Lee SW Ohio From roberth6@mac.com Mon Jul 14 08:14:04 2003 Message-Id: <1BD75F7E-B5F4-11D7-B123-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Topic of the week: Dahlia species and related Genera Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:10:07 +1000 Hi Uli , Thanks for the introduction. I am very fond of "Tree Dahlias" which to me means the single pink form of Dahlia imperialis which is grown commonly in gardens where I live. It grows to about 3 metres and flowers in early winter before heavy frost and tends to be quite an open leggy plant. I also grow a semi double white form which is not so tall - about 2 metres and a much more dense clump - to my eye a much better garden plant . Unfortunately it flowers several weeks later than the single pink and therefore is not often enjoyed. This year our winter was quite mild until June 21 (our shortest day) and I had a nice display of flowers almost ready to photograph. We then had -2C and -1C two nights in a row . Next weekend I cut them all down (saving plenty of cuttings.) I grow them in full sun and wind in our new garden hoping that in years to come as trees and shrubs grow they will get more protection from frost. I also grow Dahlia coccinea var palmeri thanks to Uli and find it flowers almost continuously from summer to frost. For me thus far it has only reached 1 metre tall and is also a wonderful garden plant. I have raised 4 seedlings of Dahlia merkii this year so should be able to share my experiences with this next summer. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania Zone 9 From roberth6@mac.com Mon Jul 14 08:24:10 2003 Message-Id: <41D257FA-B5F5-11D7-B123-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Topic of the week: Dahlia species and related Genera Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:18:20 +1000 Hi all, It seems Dahlia excelsa is an earlier flowering richer and deeper mauve than the standard pink Dahlia imperialis. Cheers, Rob From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Jul 14 09:09:53 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030714231029.01d94400@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: tree dahlias Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:10:29 +1000 >Does anybody know if there has been done some selection or breeding to produce >a day-length-neutral, i.e. earlier flowering plant of the same stature? > Uli et al, There has been some breeding here in Australia I have been told between the taller imperialis and the "normal" dahlias. These have resulted in at least soem hybrids that are ranging between the 2 and 3 metre mark with single or full double flowers in a range of colours. I am going to try to track some of these down to try and beg for some cuttings . In particular I know of a full double ball-type apricot hybrid that grows to around the 2.5m mark.... I WANT!! So the hybrids can obviously be made at least. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Jul 14 09:12:53 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030714231330.01cdfbb0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: tree dahlias (addition) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:13:30 +1000 > >So the hybrids can obviously be made at least. > Oh, and I forgot to mention that these hybrids reputedly flower at least a month earlier than the tree dahlias, making them useful for those of us who live in frosty areas. Our Dahlias imperialis here in Canberra start flowering about may (the D. excelsa flowers in April) and these hybrids started in March. This is a HUGE step forward in bringing tree dahlias to being useful in more gardens in frost areas. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 14 12:27:50 2003 Message-Id: <3F12D8B4.467763C7@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Topic of the week: Dahlia species and related Genera Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:22:12 -0700 Hi All: Dahlia imperalis grows to a height of some 25 feet here in Sausalito, California, flowering in November. The flowers are mostly pendant, quite long lasting. Stems reach 3-4 inches in diameter. Cheers, John E. Bryan Robert Hamilton wrote: > > Hi Uli , > > Thanks for the introduction. > > I am very fond of "Tree Dahlias" which to me means the single > pink form of Dahlia imperialis which is grown commonly in gardens > where I live. It grows to about 3 metres and flowers in early > winter before heavy frost and tends to be quite an open leggy > plant. I also grow a semi double white form which is not so tall > - about 2 metres and a much more dense clump - to my eye a much > better garden plant . Unfortunately it flowers several weeks > later than the single pink and therefore is not often enjoyed. > This year our winter was quite mild until June 21 (our > shortest day) and I had a nice display of flowers almost ready > to photograph. We then had -2C and -1C two nights in a row . > Next weekend I cut them all down (saving plenty of cuttings.) > > I grow them in full sun and wind in our new garden hoping that in > years to come as trees and shrubs grow they will get more > protection from frost. > > I also grow Dahlia coccinea var palmeri thanks to Uli and find it > flowers almost continuously from summer to frost. For me thus > far it has only reached 1 metre tall and is also a wonderful > garden plant. > > I have raised 4 seedlings of Dahlia merkii this year so should > be able to share my experiences with this next summer. > > Cheers, > > Rob in Tasmania > Zone 9 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Theladygardens@aol.com Mon Jul 14 13:19:31 2003 Message-Id: <1ce.dcf18dc.2c44401c@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Topic of the week: Dahlia species and related Genera Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:19:24 EDT The Dahlia Imperialis in my garden has been putting a bloom or two out pretty consistently all spring and summer. We had a mild winter and summer has gone from cool to hot to cool a lot. I am in Northern Calif. This is the second year I have had it. A friend has just sent me a white form in a pot. I am interested in the double forms and just got really excited reading about the Apricot ball form. Think I will try to pollinate some regular sized Hybrids with the tree Dahlias when they are in bloom. Think that will require putting a ladder next to the tree Dahlia. Carolyn in Los Gatos From boutin@goldrush.com Mon Jul 14 23:41:45 2003 Message-Id: <00c601c34a83$f4653330$473d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: Topic of the week: Dahlia species and related Genera Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:48:28 -0700 Cosmos seemannii is an attractive small tuberous species which I collected seed of years ago in Mexico and grew for a while at the Huntington Botanical Gardens. It has very divided, ferny foliage and forms a groundcover mat. A few years back Carman's Nursery in Los Gatos offered propagations of this species. I haven't been there for some time, and with Ed Carman gone I don't know what they still have available. It is worth a check. Fred Boutin Tuolumne, CA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From roberth6@mac.com Tue Jul 15 08:29:09 2003 Message-Id: <6909CB90-B6BF-11D7-A14D-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Albuca Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:25:24 +1000 On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 06:20 PM, Digby Boswell wrote: > Digby Boswell > Pietermaritzburg (Zone 6) Hi Digby, Do you mean USDA zone 6 ? Since my growing South African amaryllids changed from hobby to obsession I have become a student of South African geography in an endeavour to understand those which will tolerate my climate best. With Pietermaritzburg at about 29.5 South and 80km from the East Coast it is surely a kinder climate than Zone 6 which I understand to have minimum winter temperature of -18C to -23C. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue Jul 15 08:48:45 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Dahlia species...TOW Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:48:39 +0000 Dear all: The first thing of interest in Dahlia species is how different than those of garden Dahlias their flowers are . In fact, they always look like daisies (some like Coreopsis, some like Tithonias) and from a distance Dahlia imperialis flowers look like Clematis. We are only at the very beginning of learning about them as the current revision gives 33 species in four sections. Of course, enclosing a list of them below is not to encourage “modern day plant explorers” to plunder them from the wild for sale!! I. Pseudodendron D. excelsa D. imperialis D. tenuicaulis II. Epiphytum D. macdougallii III. Entemophyllum D. scapigeroides D. foeniculifolia D. dissecta D. linearis D. rupícola D. congestifolia IV. Dahlia D. apiculata D. brevis D. cardiophylla D. mollis D. parvibracteata D. rudis D. scapigera D. tenuis D. tubulata D. hjertingii D. merckii D. australis D. coccinea D. sherffii D. atropurpurea D. barkerae D. neglecta D. pteropoda D. sorensenii D. spectabilis D. hintonii D. moorei D. purpusii And Paul, Dahlia imperialis is not a short day plant here. It is obviously a matter of temperatures as it flowers for a long period in summer and autumn. When grown in greenhouses it starts flowering in spring and does not stop until late autumn. I find a great drawback in “tree” Dahlias and it is that they can be torn to pieces by wind and it is not always easy to find a sheltered place for them in every garden. The main problem we will find when growing Dahlia species is how to maintain them pure as bees can perform wonders in crossing all sorts of Dahlias. Possibly root division will be the only way to achieve this. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From tony@plantdel.com Tue Jul 15 10:18:29 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20030715101835.02511b18@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Dahlia species...TOW Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:18:35 -0400 Alberto: Thanks for great information on dahlias. We root all of our dahlias, including D. imperialis from stem cuttings and have great success. These can either be stuck horizontally or vertically. On large stem species like D. imperalis, horizontally works much better. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Tue Jul 15 12:31:33 2003 Message-Id: <20030715163122.76889.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Watsonia questions Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:31:22 -0700 (PDT) I have several questions about my watsonias that I hope someone here can answer - 1) how much do they hybridize? Can I expect a true species from seed if they flowered when others right next to them bloomed? 2) When is the best time to start seed? Should I sow them now when they are fresh or wait until fall/winter to get them started? 3) Should they be divided now as the foliage is dying down or wait until later in the fall? Thanks in advance for al your help. ===== John Ingram in hot and steamy L.A., CA. Everything is blooming now. Crinums, Sinningias, Canna, Brugmansias, Hymenocallis, Habranthus, Zephyranthes, Cypellas, and so much more. jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jul 15 13:12:06 2003 Message-Id: <000601c34af3$61492dc0$9fe02052@VRouter.com> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Watsonia questions Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:06:06 +0100 Hi John, >>>>1) how much do they hybridize? Can I expect a true species from seed if they flowered when others right next to them bloomed? They hybridise very easily, and are insect pollinated by both bees and hoverflies, and quite possibly moths. >>>>2) When is the best time to start seed? Should I sow them now when they are fresh or wait until fall/winter to get them started? In a climate like yours, sow the seed straight away and keep them growing for as long as possible till they go dormant, autumn 2004. Keep feeding them all the time and you might even get flowering plants in eighteen months this way. 2-3 years is normal though. >>>>>3) Should they be divided now as the foliage is dying down or wait until later in the fall? If the foliage is dying down now, yes you can do it now, or you can wait until they start shooting again. I have often found that new shoots on Watsonias can be very brittle and break easy on propagation, thus dividing now is probably your best option. Be very careful when pulling them apart, Watsonia leaves can be very sharp when dry, and old flower scapes can splinter into your hands and fingers very easy also. When you dig them and break them up, remove some of the old tunics and check the health of the corms, if there are any pest (eg. thrips) or disease signs on the corms, now is the best time to treat it. Best Wishes, Dave Websites: www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com Address: David Fenwick NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 25/06/03 From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 15 17:09:44 2003 Message-Id: <00a801c34b16$5b1c2240$b13d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: Climate and Ledebouria sp Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:16:27 -0700 Dear Digby, Saw your note on Albuca, and I too am interested in your local climate. How cold does it get regularly in winter, and what are the extremes? Also are Ledebouria species native in your area? Are there any forms of L. socialis which come from areas of winter frosts and cold? Thanks, Fred Boutin Tuolumne, California (zone 7) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Jul 15 17:39:42 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: .... and Ledebouria sp Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:39:22 -0500 Dear Fred, Digby et al; I would love to get a discussion on this genus and a good key or hints on identifying anything beyond violacea/socialis. I have three distinct species? forms? or? Anyone have a clue on IDs. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Tue Jul 15 18:20:32 2003 Message-Id: <19cY9j-0xuSdk0@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: TOW Dahlia species Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:20:19 +0200 Dear All, Thank you for all these interesting responses to my introduction! It is very interesting to read the very different experience on flowering time and size of Dahlia imperialis. Are there perhaps shorter and taller forms? The difference in size seems to be considerable! Are the shorter forms themselves perhaps hybrids? If Dahlia imperialis flowers in summer in Argentina, is it perhaps just the fact that the plant needs a certain minimum size to flower at all and only being able to reach this in mild winter climate that does not kill the current year's growth. (or greenhouse coultivation?) For how long does one shoot last? More than one year? Very interesting also the news about propagating tree Dahlias from stem cuttings: does this mean just pieces (sections) of stem without leaves? Or tip cuttings of the growth tips? None of you have mentioned the point whether these Dahlias set seed. Does Dahlia excelsa set seed at all? The semi-double white one? I agree with the hybridisation problem. So far my Dahlia coccinea var palmeri always is the first Dahlia to flower and the flowers are hand pollinated in between three different clones which I maintain by root division. As I collect a lot of seed also from later flowers that have flowerd simultaneously with other Dahlias, there may be a certain mix of hybrids in it but I think the majority of seed should be pure. If there is a request for guaranteed pure seed I can select this but then only in small amounts, please do not hesitate to contact me privately in that case. Does anybody grow Cosmos seemannii? good bye for now, Uli From Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com Tue Jul 15 18:27:21 2003 Message-Id: <3C86B4DF13CED411A1FC0002B3153BF51181BE@BPFNPNTM001> From: Pat Colville Subject: Questions about coir and slag Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:26:16 -0700 Arnold- Slag is not pure iron, it is the light molten fraction that floats above the dense pure iron in the blast furnace refining process. It is high in calcium, silica, with magnesium, alkalis, iron and many other trace elements that are present in iron ore or added to make specialty steels. Elements like manganese, cobalt, chromium and maybe sulfur. Most slags that I have used in industrial applications are rather alkaline and I would expect the leachate to be alkaline. I can't imagine using it on or around growing plants unless they are alkali loving types. At a steel mill near here there were large slag heaps over twenty years old with still nothing but a few grasses growing on them. This makes me think slag could be used along gravelly garden paths to keep grass and weeds out. Could that be what this "Black Beauty" stuff is meant for? However, fast quenched slag can be frothy like lightweight aggregate or similar to pumice. In that case, I would recommend using it in Hypertufa trough construction but not as a soil component. Pat Colville Question: 2. I picked up some slag ( Black Beauty) and would like to use it to dress some potted tender bulbs that I place outdoors for the summer. I know it is basically pure iron, any down sides to using it like leaching poisons in to the soil.. Arnold _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 15 18:41:30 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030715153718.00d4cb50@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ledebouria Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:40:30 -0700 Hi all, I want to do Ledebouria as a topic of the week probably after I get back from South Africa. There are a number of members who are interested in this genus and would like to talk about it. Please contact me privately about people who I might approach to introduce it. Thanks. If we discuss it now I'll probably just skip it later and we can do that too if people would rather. Mary Sue From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 15 18:53:03 2003 Message-Id: <00b801c34b24$c96e49e0$b13d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: .... and Ledebouria sp Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:59:07 -0700 Dear Jim and anyone else interested in Ledebouria, Can you post pictures of your Ledebouria species or forms? I'm sure you'll get an opinion at least. The closest thing to a current key to the species in South Africa is: Andrew Hankey, "Vegetative key to the Genus Ledebouria (Hyacinthaceae) in South Africa. in Plant Life (South Africa) 27:16-19. Oct. 2002. It includes the species which are still unpublished from S. Venter's Master of Science thesis revision of 1993. Briefly, Hankey divides the species into three groups: eight species with upright leaves, seven species with leaves lying flush with the soil, and 26 species with leaves variously spreading in other than the manner of the first two. One species Ledebouria sandersonii occurs in all three groups. And L. cooperi and L. dolomiticola occur in group 1 and 3. There are further keys to species level, but no descriptions of the 36 species. Bare bones. The older revision of the genus was by J. P. Jessop in 1970 in the Journal of South African Botany. Do you have access to this one? Before this are Baker's various publications on Scilla species, mostly in Saunders Refugium Botanicum. I've been collecting bits of information on the genus to learn what was related to L. socialis and what other species it contacts in the wild. Since L. socialis is so variable I would like to learn about its native range and habitats and perhaps where some of the clones such as 'Minor' or 'Zebra' were collected or developed. Species of Ledebouria in South Africa as noted by Andrew Hankey above. Section A. Species with erect leaves. L. viscosa L dolomiticola L. atrobrunnea L. leptophylla L. marginata L. confusa L. cooperi L. sandersonii Section B. Species with leaves flush with the soil surface. L. ovatifolia L ovalifolia L. parvifolia L. galpinii L. coriacea L. monophylla L. sandersonii Section C. Leaves variously spreading but not like those in A or B L. hypoxidioides L. rupestris L. petiolata L. papillata L. glauca L. socialis L. dolomiticola L. crispa L. minima L. concolor L. lepida L. undulata L. cooperi L. sandersonii L. asperifolia L. inquinata L. cremnophylla L. luteola L. agavoides L. macowanii L. floribunda L. zebrina L. revoluta L. ensifolia L. apertiflora That should give us a good start for discussion. Fred Tuolumne, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:39 PM Subject: [pbs] .... and Ledebouria sp > Dear Fred, Digby et al; > I would love to get a discussion on this genus and a good key > or hints on identifying anything beyond violacea/socialis. I have > three distinct species? forms? or? Anyone have a clue on IDs. > > Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > E-fax 419-781-8594 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jul 15 19:09:54 2003 Message-Id: <001801c34b25$5b4aae80$9fe02052@VRouter.com> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: .... and Ledebouria sp Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:03:51 +0100 Fred, Whilst surfing the web I've found pictures for about 20 species of Ledebouria. Obviously they are not mine to share publically but if anyone is interested I'll send pics privately on request. The following species are included. atrobrunnea, cooperi, crispa, dolomiticola, ensifolia, floribunda, galpinii, hypoxidioides, lancifolia, luteora, marginata, minima, namaquensis, ovalifolia, ovatifolia, papillata, revoluta, rupestris, sandersii and socialis. Best Wishes, Dave Websites: www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com Address: David Fenwick NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 15/07/03 From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Jul 15 20:06:55 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030715190455.021bea60@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Climate and Ledebouria sp Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:06:54 -0500 Digby, Fred, and all, I'm also interested in finding South African bulbs that can survive a zone 6 winter! I have a nice raised bed rock garden that is just begging for some unusual small bulbs to show off. Jim Shields in central Indiana, USDA zone 5 but more like 6 in recent years At 02:16 PM 7/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Digby, > >Saw your note on Albuca, and I too am interested in your local climate. How >cold does it get regularly in winter, and what are the extremes? > >Also are Ledebouria species native in your area? Are there any forms of L. >socialis which come from areas of winter frosts and cold? > >Thanks, > >Fred Boutin >Tuolumne, California >(zone 7) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue Jul 15 20:11:11 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Ledebouria Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:11:10 +0000 Dear Fred: Many thanks for sending an update. However, the character of leaves erect, flat, etc. vary with cultivation and will lead to endless confusion. The person that knows more about Ledebourias is Julian Slade. He can be of help. And if we follow this updated revision we need images of the plants taken in the wild (something extremely difficult). What about Jessop's revision? Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue Jul 15 20:50:35 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Dahlia species...TOW Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:50:34 +0000 "If Dahlia imperialis flowers in summer in Argentina, is it perhaps just the fact that the plant needs a certain minimum size to flower at all and only being able to reach this in mild winter climate that does not kill the current year's growth. (or greenhouse coultivation?) For how long does one shoot last? More than one year?" Dear Uli: Not in all of Argentina but where winter frosts are very slight. It is exactly as you say: the warmth makes it reach flowering size within the spring. One shoot last for a growing season (till fall) only and it is damaged by winter low temperatures. The normal practice is to prune back every winter. The new shoots produced in spring grow very rapidly. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 15 21:02:10 2003 Message-Id: <011d01c34b36$d24329c0$b13d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: Ledebouria Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:08:50 -0700 Dear Alberto, I agree, the recent key which I noted in outline is less than perfect for plants in cultivation. However, I doubt it will lead to endless confusion. It is a start for discussion of Ledebouria species and perhaps constructing a key for species in cultivation. It gives us a list of the species which Venter considered valid for South Africa and a suggestion of their habit. Not mentioned are the species outside South Africa. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Castillo" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:11 PM Subject: [pbs] Ledebouria > Dear Fred: > Many thanks for sending an update. However, the character of > leaves erect, flat, etc. vary with cultivation and will lead to endless > confusion. The person that knows more about Ledebourias is Julian Slade. He > can be of help. And if we follow this updated revision we need images of the > plants taken in the wild (something extremely difficult). What about > Jessop's revision? > Regards > Alberto > > _________________________________________________________________ > Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: > http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From Theladygardens@aol.com Tue Jul 15 21:49:16 2003 Message-Id: <78.43c65719.2c46090c@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: TOW Dahlia species Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:49:00 EDT Uli, yes, you can take pieces or rather sections of the large stem of tree Dahlias and lay them horizontally or vertically in the ground and they grow, most of the time. They also produce large tubers which can be planted. The Tree Dahlias in California where I am last several years, we cut them back and give away the sections for friends to start plants. Since you want a node or two on your starting piece, these sections are usually rather large, around a foot in length. Carolyn in Los Gatos, CA From Arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Jul 15 22:53:54 2003 Message-Id: <3F14BE41.4070101@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Subject: Questions about coir and slag Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:53:53 -0400 Pat: Thanks for the response. I think the Black Beauty is used for sandblasting processes. I picked it up at a very odd place in the Bronx where various sizes of grit are sold. I was thinking of using it as a top dress for potted south african bulbs. Arnold From msittner@mcn.org Wed Jul 16 01:42:05 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030715222848.00d449f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ruth Wilder Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:35:20 -0700 Dear All, This morning we got a post to our list from a non member telling us that a woman named Ruth Wilder had died. Arnold has been busy as a detective trying to determine who this woman was as she is not a member of our list and the name was not familiar to us. He has found that there is a woman by that name who was the President of a Dixie Iris Study Club in South Carolina so certainly Pat Brooks will probably know her. Perhaps this could be the Ruth Wilder in question? If any members of the list wish to have the email address of the woman who contacted the list for particulars please contact me privately. Thanks Arnold for tracking this down. Mary Sue From tony@plantdel.com Wed Jul 16 07:01:09 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20030716070116.00cedd40@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Dahlia species, ledbourias Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:01:16 -0400 Dear Uli: When we take Dahlia imperialis cuttings, we use a 6-12" section of cane and remove the leaves. It is placed horizontally on a flat of potting soil and pressed in lightly. Usually 4-6 weeks is necessary to have a new plant. Regarding ledbourias, these can be rooted from leaf cuttings, similar to some begonias and african violets. This is a great way to rapidly increase these. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From pbrooks3@sc.rr.com Wed Jul 16 07:49:31 2003 Message-Id: <001c01c34b90$51db5b90$6501a8c0@home> From: "Patricia Brooks" Subject: Ruth Wilder Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:49:31 -0400 Ruth Wilder was friend of many years she was Pres. of The Spuria Iris Society, sec.of the Siberian Iris Society, and various local Bulb and Daylily clubs. Yes she was founder of the Dixie Iris Study Club, but they all grew bulbs and had many programs on them. She drove all over to give talks and Iris judges training. I think who ever sent the e-mail was trying to make sure all her friends knew that she died. Pat Ladson SC From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Wed Jul 16 10:13:01 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030717001345.01f81e00@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Dahlia species...TOW Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:13:45 +1000 At 12:48 15/07/03 +0000, you wrote: >Dear all: > The first thing of interest in Dahlia species is how different >than those of garden Dahlias their flowers are . In fact, they always look >like daisies (some like Coreopsis, some like Tithonias) and from a distance >Dahlia imperialis flowers look like Clematis. > Alberto, Very true. > > >And Paul, Dahlia imperialis is not a short day plant here. It is obviously a >matter of temperatures as it flowers for a long period in summer and autumn. >When grown in greenhouses it starts flowering in spring and does not stop >until late autumn. I find a great drawback in “tree” Dahlias and it is that >they can be torn to pieces by wind and it is not always easy to find a >sheltered place for them in every garden. It was Uli who suggested the short day, not me. Here in Canberra what we grow as imperialis (the big open "spiedry" mauve flowers that resemble clemtis) open in late autumn just as the frosts are about to hit. We always used to use it to forecast when a frost was due as for 6 years running the first frost hit within 4-6 days of the first flower opening. Was very frustrating. This year we have had a very late winter (still waiting in some ways.... VERY mild so far frost-wise) so it was teh best flwoering I can remember. The Dahlia excelsa opens in early autumn theoretically. I have not had it long enough to know for sure in my garden. Hopefully next summer it will be fully established so I shall know for sure. The flowers are much smaller, rounder and more "filled in" than the imperialis and are a darker pink with a dark centre around orange stamen. Do these descriptions match with yours Alberto? It is so darn hard at times to find out if what we have here in Australia as such-and-such species IS actually that species or is something clsoe that is mislabelled. I probably have shots of both of mine if you would like to see them for verification purposes. It was fascinating to see the list of species too Alberto. I had no idea there were so many different species, but I had assumed there must be a few given the huge variety that has been bred into the horticultural forms. They must have come from somewhere originally to get teh vast differences in types, although I realise that selective breeding accounts for the majority of them. Still very fscinating to see the list. Thanks. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Jul 16 12:35:02 2003 Message-Id: <3F157E1D.6050502@bulbargence.com> From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Dahlia species...TOW Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:32:29 +0200 Dear Alberto and all, It is difficult to understand why in Argentina this species flowers in the summer and autumn and in a greenhouse (assuming higher temperatures) continuously from spring till autumn. While here no matter what temperatures (and even in greenhouse conditions) the first flower buds always appear the 15th of November. There is no evidence here that it is the length of the growing season which is in cause. Sometimes I destroy the growth in June to have a smaller plant and this plant also flowers from mid november onwards. Maybe we are talking about a different strain or origin. (which makes me think of an earlier discussion on the flowering time of Gladiolus daleni) We grow the cuttings of D. imperialis in an open field without protection from wind. As they are fairly closely planted they have no problem with wind. A 100 m long bed with 3-4 m high Dahlias makes quite an impressive sight . Alberto Castillo wrote: Dahlia imperialis is not a short day plant here. It is obviously a matter of temperatures as it flowers for a long period in summer and autumn. When grown in greenhouses it starts flowering in spring and does not stop until late autumn. I find a great drawback in "tree" Dahlias and it is that they can be torn to pieces by wind and it is not always easy to find a sheltered place for them in every garden. -- Lauw de Jager BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/ "GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS": 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E Expedition des bulbes à floraison automnale est commencé. Le catalogue d'été est valable jusqu'à fin octobre Région: Provence/Camargue, Climat zone: 9a Mediterranean, dry July-August, peak rainfall in autumn, minimum temps -3-7°C (28-21F) Reference vegetation: Arbutus unedo, Olea europeaea, From msittner@mcn.org Wed Jul 16 20:35:44 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030716155805.00d4abe0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Password Reminders Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:34:56 -0700 Dear All, Two people have written me privately that they did not get a password reminder when they asked for one. You need a password to set your account to nomail, regular mail, digest, the language you want and a number of other choices. Arnold and I can not access your passwords although as moderators we can make changes for you. I asked for mine via our list information site and it was sent immediately so I'm not sure what the problem was for the others. I will write support, but in the meantime I have set the mail program so that everyone will get a reminder once a month. When the first one comes, I will remind everyone to make a note of their passwords and then change it back so we won't get monthly reminders. Once you get your reminder, if it isn't something you will remember you can change it to something you will. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jul 17 01:23:59 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030716173249.00d0ea40@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gladiolus on the Wiki Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:10:54 -0700 Dear All, For several weeks I have been working on upgrading the Southern African Gladiolus wiki page and invite you all to look at some of the pictures I have added. They are scans of slides I took when we visited South Africa in August and September of 2001 and digital pictures from flowers blooming in our garden (fall, winter, spring, into summer.) There really is a very long range and I noticed that there is one spiking now in my redone raised bed. I was a little alarmed since we've had no rain since May and I was sure this one must be confused, but when I looked at the tag it was for Gladiolus monticola which is a Table Mountain species that blooms January to March in South Africa so it is the correct time. It's the first time to bloom from seed for it and it looks a bit strange coming up on spikes with no leaves and most everything else in that bed gone or brown. It looks very erect. Hopefully we'll have pictures of it to add later. I confess that we held up some of these flowers so you could see them. Many of them are hooded so there are shadows if you shoot straight on. The digital camera pictures are better than my slides. I especially like the picture Bob took of Gladiolus pappei. Hopefully some day some of the ones I am growing from seed will bloom and I can replace some of these pictures with better ones. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolus Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From c-mueller@tamu.edu Thu Jul 17 08:09:10 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Gladiolus on the Wiki Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:05:29 -0500 Dear Mary Sue, It was wonderful to view your species Gladiolus on the wiki! I hope there will soon be more. Perhaps a member could tell me what garden gladiolus is sold in California as a heirloom plant - a clear, bright orange self with a simple 'daleni' type shape, hooded on top? Some Texas friends of mine brought back a plant but want to hang on to every cormel...I must have my own. And where could I possibly buy some? Cynthia Mueller College Station, TX Zone 8b >>> msittner@mcn.org 07/17/03 12:10AM >>> Dear All, For several weeks I have been working on upgrading the Southern African Gladiolus wiki page and invite you all to look at some of the pictures I have added. They are scans of slides I took when we visited South Africa in August and September of 2001 and digital pictures from flowers blooming in our garden (fall, winter, spring, into summer.) There really is a very long range and I noticed that there is one spiking now in my redone raised bed. I was a little alarmed since we've had no rain since May and I was sure this one must be confused, but when I looked at the tag it was for Gladiolus monticola which is a Table Mountain species that blooms January to March in South Africa so it is the correct time. It's the first time to bloom from seed for it and it looks a bit strange coming up on spikes with no leaves and most everything else in that bed gone or brown. It looks very erect. Hopefully we'll have pictures of it to add later. I confess that we held up some of these flowers so you could see them. Many of them are hooded so there are shadows if you shoot straight on. The digital camera pictures are better than my slides. I especially like the picture Bob took of Gladiolus pappei. Hopefully some day some of the ones I am growing from seed will bloom and I can replace some of these pictures with better ones. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolus Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu Jul 17 09:34:24 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97487@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Gladiolus on the Wiki Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:34:49 -0500 Dear Mary Sue: Spectacular work. I've forwarded your email to our plant breeder, Dr. Jim Ault, and the horticulture staff at Chicago Botanic Garden. Hope we can get some of these beauties into our displays! Currently we only breed perennials hardy to the Chicago climate, but these images of Gladiolus certainly are sufficient to whet the appetite of any plant breeder. Many thanks, Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jul 17 10:16:27 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030717064529.00cab9f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Epipactis gigantea Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:15:57 -0700 Dear All, Our wildflower season is winding down now although we are still enjoying the starry flowers of the Chlorogalum on those hot days we walk in the evening. A couple of weeks ago however we saw this orchid on one of our hikes growing close to the Gualala River. It is probably covered by water during the winter months when the River runs high, but now is growing in the gravel. A lot of our local orchids really need a hand lens to appreciate as the flowers are quite small, but this one has larger flowers. This species has rhizomes and this particular plant is expanding each year. My field guide says that it is found on the margins of lakes, streams, and springs in the Pacific states. I saw a picture of this species in a slide shown by Roger Raiche at a California Horticultural Society meeting as it grows on his property, the Cedars, which has serpentine soil and can be very hot in summer (and VERY wet in winter.)I thought it was very pretty at the time but thought it would need to be quite wet to grow well, but now I wonder how dry it would be in summer. Epipactis gigantea is listed in the Telos Catalog and maybe Diana will tell us how she grows it. I haven't made a Wiki page yet for it, but here are pictures Bob took: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea.jpg And for size: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea3.jpg You may remember that we were discussing how to arrange field guides. My friend who arranges by color and is rewriting her book was along so we began to discuss where she was going to put this plant. She uses white, yellow, red, pink, blue, green, and brown as the choices. She was going to put it in pink, but had changed her mind to yellow. Most of us voted brown as from a distance that is what you notice, but my husband thought green. Another said mauve would be good, but my friends just groaned and said there wasn't going to be a mauve. I looked it up in Peterson (Pacific States Wildflowers) which also arranges by color and it is described as having yellow-green flowers, but is on a page that is the transition from orange to pink (because of the lip which they describe as orange.) I know the colors on everyone's computers will be a little different so don't know what you all will think. This certainly illustrates how a few plants are challenging to classify by color. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From tony@plantdel.com Thu Jul 17 10:28:08 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20030717102815.02518e98@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Epipactis gigantea Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:28:15 -0400 Mary Sue: Surprisingly, Epipactus giganteus grows wonderful for us in bone dry sand. We irrigate occasionally through the summer, but it has proven to be amazingly durable. We have grown the cultivar E. 'Serpentine Knight' for about 8 years. At 07:15 AM 7/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >Our wildflower season is winding down now although we are still enjoying >the starry flowers of the Chlorogalum on those hot days we walk in the >evening. A couple of weeks ago however we saw this orchid on one of our >hikes growing close to the Gualala River. It is probably covered by water >during the winter months when the River runs high, but now is growing in >the gravel. A lot of our local orchids really need a hand lens to >appreciate as the flowers are quite small, but this one has larger flowers. >This species has rhizomes and this particular plant is expanding each year. >My field guide says that it is found on the margins of lakes, streams, and >springs in the Pacific states. I saw a picture of this species in a slide >shown by Roger Raiche at a California Horticultural Society meeting as it >grows on his property, the Cedars, which has serpentine soil and can be >very hot in summer (and VERY wet in winter.)I thought it was very pretty at >the time but thought it would need to be quite wet to grow well, but now I >wonder how dry it would be in summer. Epipactis gigantea is listed in the >Telos Catalog and maybe Diana will tell us how she grows it. I haven't made >a Wiki page yet for it, but here are pictures Bob took: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea.jpg >And for size: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea3.jpg > >You may remember that we were discussing how to arrange field guides. My >friend who arranges by color and is rewriting her book was along so we >began to discuss where she was going to put this plant. She uses white, >yellow, red, pink, blue, green, and brown as the choices. She was going to >put it in pink, but had changed her mind to yellow. Most of us voted brown >as from a distance that is what you notice, but my husband thought green. >Another said mauve would be good, but my friends just groaned and said >there wasn't going to be a mauve. I looked it up in Peterson (Pacific >States Wildflowers) which also arranges by color and it is described as >having yellow-green flowers, but is on a page that is the transition from >orange to pink (because of the lip which they describe as orange.) I know >the colors on everyone's computers will be a little different so don't know >what you all will think. This certainly illustrates how a few plants are >challenging to classify by color. > >Mary Sue >Mary Sue Ittner >California's North Coast >Wet mild winters with occasional frost >Dry mild summers > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Thu Jul 17 11:42:39 2003 Message-Id: <001b01c34c7a$080719b0$62dbfc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Epipactis gigantea Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:42:28 -0700 Hi Mary Sue Epipactis gigantea is one of those rarities in the orchid world - it is so easy to grow anyone can do it! As Mary Sue says, it grows by rhizomes which will spread about to form a nice clump of plants. I grow it in large pots, where it tries to spread, ending up growing mostly around the edges and through the drainage holes. It is fine in a pot if it is repotted every year, but really does better in the ground. Epipactis is usually found growing in wet areas at the edges of creeks, or in seeps. In California, though, these areas dry out considerably by the end of summer, although I wouldn't say it can take total drying. I forgot one of my pots one summer here, where temperatures are very cool, and I lost almost the entire contents. In the ground I have seen it growing in areas that look very dry in summer, but probably have enough residual moisture to keep it going. Unlike most California natives, it comes into growth in spring, blooms in summer, and is dormant by the end of summer. The flower color is certainly problematic to describe! Bob's photographs, are, as usualy, outstanding and very representative of the true color. I have the selection "Serpentine Night" that originated with Roger Raiche. It has deep red leaves that change to green after flowering. The contrast between the leaf color and the flower is very beautiful. With the backing of a red leaf, however, the flower looks more yellow! Diana Telos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:15 AM Subject: [pbs] Epipactis gigantea > Dear All, > > Our wildflower season is winding down now although we are still enjoying > the starry flowers of the Chlorogalum on those hot days we walk in the > evening. A couple of weeks ago however we saw this orchid on one of our > hikes growing close to the Gualala River. It is probably covered by water > during the winter months when the River runs high, but now is growing in > the gravel. A lot of our local orchids really need a hand lens to > appreciate as the flowers are quite small, but this one has larger flowers. > This species has rhizomes and this particular plant is expanding each year. > My field guide says that it is found on the margins of lakes, streams, and > springs in the Pacific states. I saw a picture of this species in a slide > shown by Roger Raiche at a California Horticultural Society meeting as it > grows on his property, the Cedars, which has serpentine soil and can be > very hot in summer (and VERY wet in winter.)I thought it was very pretty at > the time but thought it would need to be quite wet to grow well, but now I > wonder how dry it would be in summer. Epipactis gigantea is listed in the > Telos Catalog and maybe Diana will tell us how she grows it. I haven't made > a Wiki page yet for it, but here are pictures Bob took: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea.jpg > And for size: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea3.jpg > > You may remember that we were discussing how to arrange field guides. My > friend who arranges by color and is rewriting her book was along so we > began to discuss where she was going to put this plant. She uses white, > yellow, red, pink, blue, green, and brown as the choices. She was going to > put it in pink, but had changed her mind to yellow. Most of us voted brown > as from a distance that is what you notice, but my husband thought green. > Another said mauve would be good, but my friends just groaned and said > there wasn't going to be a mauve. I looked it up in Peterson (Pacific > States Wildflowers) which also arranges by color and it is described as > having yellow-green flowers, but is on a page that is the transition from > orange to pink (because of the lip which they describe as orange.) I know > the colors on everyone's computers will be a little different so don't know > what you all will think. This certainly illustrates how a few plants are > challenging to classify by color. > > Mary Sue > Mary Sue Ittner > California's North Coast > Wet mild winters with occasional frost > Dry mild summers > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Jul 17 14:00:41 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Epipactis gigantea Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:43:38 -0500 >Hi Mary Sue > >Epipactis gigantea is one of those rarities in the orchid world - it is so >easy to grow anyone can do it! ... I grow it in large pots,... but >really does better in the ground. Dear Mary Sue, Diana et al; Any experience growing in colder climates in the ground? Sun or shade? Growing tips? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From magrysbo@shu.edu Thu Jul 17 13:47:29 2003 Message-Id: From: "Bonaventure W Magrys" Subject: Dahlia species...TOW Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:47:20 -0400 I received an imperialis tuber early this spring (from Van Bourgoundien I believe) and potted it up indoors in a 4-inch fiber pot. A growth shot up 18 inches but when planted outside in May has since refused to grow. Can I dig it up before frost and save the tuber by continuing to grow it near a sunny window? Bonaventure Magrys Cliffwood Beach, NJ USA zone 6-7 From magrysbo@shu.edu Thu Jul 17 14:05:13 2003 Message-Id: From: "Bonaventure W Magrys" Subject: Gladiolus on the Wiki Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:05:03 -0400 Yes, me too. Some of them look almost like orchids! Bonaventure Magrys Cliffwood Beach, NJ zone 6-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Mary Sue, It was wonderful to view your species Gladiolus on the wiki! I hope there will soon be more. Perhaps a member could tell me what garden gladiolus is sold in California as a heirloom plant - a clear, bright orange self with a simple 'daleni' type shape, hooded on top? Some Texas friends of mine brought back a plant but want to hang on to every cormel...I must have my own. And where could I possibly buy some? Cynthia Mueller College Station, TX Zone 8b From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Thu Jul 17 14:35:16 2003 Message-Id: <002f01c34c92$2504e5c0$64dffc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Epipactis gigantea Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:35:05 -0700 Hi Jim: The populations I have seen in the wild grow on the edges of seasonal streams, or in seeps. They are usually lightly shaded, but I have also seen it growing in full sun in quite dry conditions. In wet conditions, it is usually on banks, so although it is wet it is also well drained. I haven't ever seen it in low wet spots. I think, though, it prefers some shade and moisture. I grow it in large pots in a very humusy mix, but I think it's quite adaptable. Since it emerges in spring (not winter, like other CA natives), and it can also grow at elevations of up to 2600 meters (according to Jepson), I imagine it is quite hardy, probably to zone 5 or 6 (maybe even lower). Anyway, it can definitely take freezing, and is worth a try for those in the states that have real winters. If you grow it in pots, you need to repot virtually every year or it ends up all around the edge of the pot. Propagation is by division of the rhizome. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "diana chapman" ; "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Epipactis gigantea > >Hi Mary Sue > > > >Epipactis gigantea is one of those rarities in the orchid world - it is so > >easy to grow anyone can do it! ... I grow it in large pots,... but > >really does better in the ground. > > Dear Mary Sue, Diana et al; > Any experience growing in colder climates in the ground? Sun or shade? > > Growing tips? > > Best Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > E-fax 419-781-8594 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 17 15:06:56 2003 Message-Id: <3F16F278.CF72275F@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Dahlia species...TOW Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:01:12 -0700 Dear Bonavenyure; Yes. Did you break down the fiber pot in any way? If this is not done the root growth can be inhibited. In theory they are supposed to break down but this is not always the case. A 4 inch pot is far too small for this very large and very fast grower. As it is still July, I would plant it in an sunny location and keep it moist. It might well grow away being happy to be released from its prison. Cheers, John E. Bryan Bonaventure W Magrys wrote: > > I received an imperialis tuber early this spring (from Van Bourgoundien I > believe) and potted it up indoors in a 4-inch fiber pot. A growth shot up > 18 inches but when planted outside in May has since refused to grow. Can I > dig it up before frost and save the tuber by continuing to grow it near a > sunny window? > Bonaventure Magrys > Cliffwood Beach, NJ USA zone 6-7 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Thu Jul 17 18:06:50 2003 Message-Id: <19dGtW-0m3hxZ0@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: TOW Dahlia species Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:06:34 +0200 Dear All, Having read all the contributions on Dahlia species I wonder whether none of you grows any other species than the tree Dahlias and perhaps one or two other smaller ones. The List of species Alberto Castillo sent is very impressive but are any of thes unknown (to me at least) plants in cultivation? Are they suitable and worth cultivating? Are there any botanical collections of Dahlia species somewhere? I find Lauw's point very interesting concering the flowering time of Dahlia imperialis. To me it definetely looks like an extreme short day bloomer. At least I think the formation of flower buds is induced by short days, once the plant has been triggered into flowering it may well flower into the longer days of spring. That is what I have always heard of all the people who grow this plant in Europe. My own plants never flowered because they alwayswere cut down by frost around mid October and they might have been too small anyway. But what Alberto writes sounds different indeed. Perhaps this is the strain that is day length neutral. In all short day bloomers there is always the odd day lengh neutral plant and this being more floriferous in gardens it may well have been selected and cultivated. Are there any Photos to be seen online to see and perhaps compare these plants? Bye for now, Uli From roberth6@mac.com Fri Jul 18 07:39:25 2003 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: TOW Dahlia Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:34:06 +1000 Hi all, I have posted an image of the pale pink Dahlia imperialis which is common in gardens in Tasmania. This image was taken in mid June just before heavy frost - I am sorry the flowers are a little tired. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Dahliaimperialis.jpg Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From roberth6@mac.com Fri Jul 18 08:49:26 2003 Message-Id: <53BF44C6-B91D-11D7-A831-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Winter images Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:42:44 +1000 Hi all, Its mid winter here in Tasmania but there are still some gems in flower in the open garden. I have added a couple of Juno iris to the wiki. The Iris planifolia is flowering in its 4 season from seed and the image of Iris stenophylla Allisonii captures the gloss which to me makes Juno's so desirable. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Irisplanifolia.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Irisstenophyllaallisonii.jpg Narcissus romieuxii Julia Jane is a bright little hoop petticoat. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/JuliaJane.jpg I have created a page for Leucojum , the snowflakes and added images of Leucojum aestivum ( the summer snowflake flowering in winter) and Leucojum tingitanum. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Leucojum http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Leucojaestivum.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Leucojtingitanum.jpg Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From dells@voicenet.com Fri Jul 18 12:27:44 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 33 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:29:44 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 33" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer for your order. This is a charge to defray costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. From Bill Welch: 1. Seed of Narcissus tazetta ³Autumn Colors² strain: Being seed grown, there is tremendous variation among them in many respects, such as: Time of bloom (September-March), a few will even flower within 2-3 weeks of first irrigation in the autumn! Color--ranges from white through dark yellow, to in some cases approaching orange, in the perianth. Cups are of yellow to orange-red, in some cases quite intense. Number of florets--in clusters of 8-15, on up to occasionally 25-30 Size of bloom --1² up to 1 3/4-2² diameter. Height--varies from full size down to approaching miniatures. Shape--sometimes frilled along the cup edges, in some cases heavily so. Fragrance--the diversity of fragrances among these is remarkable, due in large part to the diversity of scent among the otherwise often similar-looking bicolored wild forms of the coastal Mediterranean, which are a part of their ancestry. Seeds--often in great abundance. The ancestry of these includes: numerous wild forms from various Mediterranean locations including September-flowering wild Israeli and Greek tazettas with exceptional and unique scents, unidentified old garden forms, rogues in commercial stocks from France and Israel, Autumn Sol, Newton, French Sol, N. tazetta aureus, Gloriosus, Grand National (R.E.Harrison, N.Z.), N. tazetta Odoratus, ³MacKenzie tazetta² (Isles of Scilly), Golden Rain (Double French Sol), true Soleil d¹Or, pollens and seeds in the past from Rosewarne E.H.S.., etc. They are more diverse now than this old photo, but this link is all I have at the moment: http://www.billthebulbbaron.com/Narcissus/AutumnColors.html From Cathy Craig: 2. Large corms of Watsonia 'Snow Queen', solid white 3. Corms of Chasmanthe aethiopica From Mary Sue Ittner: BULBS: 4. Oxalis brasilensis--winter growing for me, spring flowering 5. Oxalis glabra--tiny bulbs produce a lot of pink flowers in the fall and increase dramatically in number 6. Oxalis incarnata?--pinky white flowers for hanging baskets, shade. Winter growing and long blooming for me. It was a mystery plant, now on Oxalis wiki page. Claude Sweet keeps this growing and flowering in the summer. 7. Oxalis massoniana--pinkish orange flowers in the fall, winter growing, beautiful 8. Oxalis obtusas from Michael Vassar's collection via. Mike Mace a number of years ago, winter growing and blooming. After the numbers was a designation my PC couldn't translate from his MAC. Could have been inches. For example, on the next one could be 1 inch pale? 9.Oxalis obtusa MV4719D S of Laingsburg. 1? pale coppery pink, creamy center, dark veins, dark ctr ring. 10.Oxalis obtusa MV5005A 10km n of Matjiesfontein. Red-orange. 11. Oxalis obtusa MV5516 7.5km s of Nieuwodtville. 1.25? lt yell flrs, 4 above lvs. 12. Oxalis obtusa MV6341 Nieuwoudtville. 1.5? bright yellow. Tight, compact plants. 13. Oxalis obtusa MV7087 2? pink flrs w/ large yellow ctr. No other data. (Mine looked more peachy than pink) 14. Oxalis obtusa pink, different forms, but I tried to keep them together 15. Oxalis polyphylla v. heptaphylla MV6396 Vanrhynsdorp. Succulent thread-like leaves. Winter growing. 16. Oxalis purpurea 'Ken Aslet'--gray soft leaves you want to touch, but it has never bloomed for me, yellow flowers. Picture on the wiki. Winter growing. Thank you, Bill, Cathy, and Mary Sue !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From tonyg@thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jul 18 17:55:09 2003 Message-Id: <002a01c34d77$b8c26360$27a8193e@dan> From: "anthony goode" Subject: Crocus tommasinianus - beloved by rodents Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:58:27 +0100 Slightly delayed response to Bills' question. This sounds like a rumour has been started by the rodents! I have met several people locally whose Crocus tommasinianus "never came up". Reason - mice, voles, squirrels. However, given that Bill seems to have found some truth in the suggestion it would be interesting to know if other growers have had success with this crocus while losing others. In situations where rodent predation makes successful crocus cultivation marginal Crocus tommasinianus would be the most likely survivor owing to its propensity to increase by seed and cormlet production. It may be that enough survive predation to maintain the population despite rodent activity. Tony Goode. Norwich UK original message: Can anyone tell me what the mechanism is that makes crocus tommasinianus repellent to rodents? Physiology, scent, taste? It has this reputation and that has also been my experience with it. But what is the reason? Bill Lee SW Ohio From bandula@absamail.co.za Sun Jul 20 01:57:40 2003 Message-Id: <000801c34e83$e626f160$125627c4@w98sysrec> From: "Digby Boswell" Subject: Climate and Ledebouria sp Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:42:33 +0200 Dear Fred, Our weather here in Pietermaritzburg has been colder than usual this year with light frost every morning for the past month which equals about -1C/-2C ( I live at the top of a slight rise) with the marshy are 1/2Km away a good couple of degrees colder.(There is a nice stand of Cyrtanthus breviflorus there.) On the other end of the scale our summer days regularly go 36 -37C with an extreme of 43.5C a couple of years ago. I checked all the references I have for Ledebouria socialis to no avail. Sorry. I have growing in my lawn Ledebouria ovatifolia and L. sp (semi erect plain light green leaves. Similar flowers to L. ovatifolia.) Both are naturally occuring here. And to Brian Whyer, Sometimes I confuse myself with the Zones. Insofar as Hilon and frost is concerned :- go 2Km north to Cedara and you can ski on the frost every winter morning. For those people looking for bulbs that will survive temperatures down to -10C a good reference is "A Field Guide toWild Flowers Kwazulu-Natal and Eastern Region" by Elsa Pooley. Scilla dracomontana comes from the top of Sani Pass where it is really cold and oddly enough grows and flowers very well in our Pietermaritzburg climate. Cheers, Digby Boswell. Pietermaritzburg. -2C ----- Original Message ----- From: boutin To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: 15 July 2003 11:16 PM Subject: [pbs] Re: Climate and Ledebouria sp > Dear Digby, > > Saw your note on Albuca, and I too am interested in your local climate. How > cold does it get regularly in winter, and what are the extremes? > > Also are Ledebouria species native in your area? Are there any forms of L. > socialis which come from areas of winter frosts and cold? > > Thanks, > > Fred Boutin > Tuolumne, California > (zone 7) > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Jul 18 18:54:22 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030718155201.00b9a4d0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Crocus tommasinianus - beloved by rodents Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:54:17 -0700 Tony Goode wrote, >In situations where rodent predation makes successful crocus >cultivation marginal Crocus tommasinianus would be the most likely >survivor owing to its propensity to increase by seed and cormlet >production. It may be that enough survive predation to maintain the >population despite rodent activity. Another possibility is that this cheap, easy species is often naturalized in lawn grass, as I have done with it. It's good to grow that way because its leaves tend to lie flat, rather than erect as in C. vernus types, so they don't succumb to mowing too early. Voles and field mice (the main predators of crocuses here, anyway) have a hard time tunneling through the compacted, rooty soil in the lawn. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Jul 19 05:53:28 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030719195412.01d56aa0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: BX 33 - Narcissus 'Autumn Colors' Strain Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 19:54:12 +1000 > >1. Seed of Narcissus tazetta ³Autumn Colors² strain: > >Being seed grown, there is tremendous variation among them in many respects, >such as: Time of bloom (September-March), a few will even flower within 2-3 >weeks of first irrigation in the autumn! Color--ranges from white through Bill, Dell, Anyone?.... Is this seed collection of this strain of Narcissus tazetta the same as was a few years ago? Or is it now more developed/extensive? I ask because I received some by this name from the old BX a few years ago (not flowering for me yet... I think they're around 3 years old?) and I am wondering whether these will be any different to those. I find it rather fascinating and am waiting to see what the flowers look like (I think I could still be waiting a while for the majority of them, but there are a couple I have hopes for next season ), but if these are likely to include different varieties I will get soem more of them. I have deliberately sent this to the list rather than just to Dell as I thought that Bill or someone else who knows the answer may read it. Thanks in anticipation. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From dells@voicenet.com Sat Jul 19 09:01:54 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX CLOSED Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 09:03:31 -0400 Wow! Barely a crumb left. I am certain that there will be a lot of unfullfillable requests. I will do my best though. Please note that #8 was an error on my part and consisted only of information - no bulbs. Anyway, there are still #'s 1,2,& 3 left. Packages should go out on Monday. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jul 19 13:11:20 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030629224222.00ab17c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Topics for July Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:08:14 -0700 Dear All, I was looking to see what the topic was for next week and realize I never announced what was coming for July. I had saved the message but not sent it. So our introducer for next week may have forgotten he's on. I'll contact him privately. Sorry. Mary Sue Here are the topics of the week I have scheduled for July. At least one of them may be a stretch for a group focusing on bulbs, but I think it will be of interest to a lot of people and since I have someone willing to introduce it, I have scheduled it. Week starting July 6 or 7--Albuca--Julian Slade Week starting July 13 or 14--Dahlia species--Johannes-Ulrich Urban Week starting July 20 or 21--Woody Irids--Martin Grantham Week starting July 27 or 28--Memory Bulbs (Bulbs you have acquired that have special meaning to you because of the person who gave them to you or some memory associated with them) Any one of you who has joined our list since I collected suggestions for topics is welcome to send me your ideas (privately) for future topics. I am going through suggestions that others made and will be glad to have yours to add to my list. And I'll accept other suggestions from people who have sent me ones previously too. Mary Sue TOW Coordinator From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat Jul 19 18:27:40 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Streptanthera Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:27:39 +0000 Hi Robert: It is an old name for Sparaxis species like elegans or pillansii. No one is using this name for decades. Warm regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From skylark20@msn.com Sat Jul 19 22:12:03 2003 Message-Id: From: "ROBERT PARKER" Subject: Streptanthera Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 19:12:03 -0700 ALBERTO and all: My apologies (is my face RED!) I see what Mary Sue meant when she told me about something that I had said to Dell . I have been POSITIVE that my correspondence was private/direct to him. Upon checking I realize that I clicked the REPLY bar - which means that Everyone received my message. RED! my face is probably PURPLE with embarrassment). The only reason I am going public with this is that it may explain all the BX orders to Dell which occasionally pop-up on the PBS message line. I'm using the REPLY on this missive to explain the situation. Shall endeavor to be more careful in future. One good thing has come up out of this mess. When I said Streptanthera I was mistaken. I meant to say PLECTRANTHUS. ( I don't know what just happened - the typeface has suddenly changed. Must have hit the wrong key. Will check later). My middle name must be Muddle as I always must make sure that I mean PLECTRANTHUS and not STREPTANTHERA or STREPTOCARPUS or ??? Also I often confuse something-ANTHUS with something-PHYLLUM. Anyway - PLECTRANTHUS. "CAPE ANGELS" (and I know it is not a geophyte ) But it is extraordinary. I have read about this genus in the past and this is the first time I've seen it or even heard about it being offered! The label reads as follows: "Cape Angels originate from South Africa. Interbreeding of the wild Plectranthus has resulted in premium potted plants with many different colours. Cape Angels may be placed both indoor and outdoor. Do not stand frost. Water regularly and add fertilizer once a week. Unauthorized propagation is prohibited." My plant has 4-inch obovate crenate leaves - sorta like holly (without the prickles), incredibly stiff - they appear to have been varnished a dark lustrous green . They appear to be artificial and feel like they are made of some plastic material. The undersides are light fern-green with raised purple veins. The flowers are like tiny orchids pressed together from the sides - white flushed violet with prominent dark violet round spots. The inflorescence is also peculiar - (am not positive about these botanical terms , but here goes....) A panicle (?) or branched raceme with perhaps 50 tiny orchids and SECUND (?) that is the tiny flowers all face in the same direction. I better stop now, as I am definitely not sure of my ability to correctly describe this plant. But what a kick, hey? I'd better close as euphoria tends to make me blither. My apologies for my bloopers. STAY WELL, ALL ! ROBERT PBS 10038 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alberto Castillo Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 3:27 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Streptanthera Hi Robert: It is an old name for Sparaxis species like elegans or pillansii. No one is using this name for decades. Warm regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.phpGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From nargsbs@efn.org Sun Jul 20 12:27:55 2003 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: Epipactis gigantea Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 09:47:09 -0000 When someone as knowledgeable as Tony Avent, and a nursery person in addition, gives a different name than I am used to, I pay attention because we do like to have correct nomenclature in our own sales area (I admit to not having changed our Cimicifugas to Actaea, however--BAD). We list Epipactis gigantea 'Serpentine Night' and not Epipactus giganteus 'Serpentine Knight'. The RHS Plant Finder also has the former. Tony, was that just a slip of the fingers, or is there some controversy regarding the name? Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene OR 97402-9284 USA Phone: 541 935-3915 FAX: 541 935-0863 "Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Tony Avent Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:28 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Epipactis gigantea Mary Sue: Surprisingly, Epipactus giganteus grows wonderful for us in bone dry sand. We irrigate occasionally through the summer, but it has proven to be amazingly durable. We have grown the cultivar E. 'Serpentine Knight' for about 8 years. At 07:15 AM 7/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >Our wildflower season is winding down now although we are still enjoying >the starry flowers of the Chlorogalum on those hot days we walk in the >evening. A couple of weeks ago however we saw this orchid on one of our >hikes growing close to the Gualala River. It is probably covered by water >during the winter months when the River runs high, but now is growing in >the gravel. A lot of our local orchids really need a hand lens to >appreciate as the flowers are quite small, but this one has larger flowers. >This species has rhizomes and this particular plant is expanding each year. >My field guide says that it is found on the margins of lakes, streams, and >springs in the Pacific states. I saw a picture of this species in a slide >shown by Roger Raiche at a California Horticultural Society meeting as it >grows on his property, the Cedars, which has serpentine soil and can be >very hot in summer (and VERY wet in winter.)I thought it was very pretty at >the time but thought it would need to be quite wet to grow well, but now I >wonder how dry it would be in summer. Epipactis gigantea is listed in the >Telos Catalog and maybe Diana will tell us how she grows it. I haven't made >a Wiki page yet for it, but here are pictures Bob took: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea.jpg >And for size: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea3.jpg > >You may remember that we were discussing how to arrange field guides. My >friend who arranges by color and is rewriting her book was along so we >began to discuss where she was going to put this plant. She uses white, >yellow, red, pink, blue, green, and brown as the choices. She was going to >put it in pink, but had changed her mind to yellow. Most of us voted brown >as from a distance that is what you notice, but my husband thought green. >Another said mauve would be good, but my friends just groaned and said >there wasn't going to be a mauve. I looked it up in Peterson (Pacific >States Wildflowers) which also arranges by color and it is described as >having yellow-green flowers, but is on a page that is the transition from >orange to pink (because of the lip which they describe as orange.) I know >the colors on everyone's computers will be a little different so don't know >what you all will think. This certainly illustrates how a few plants are >challenging to classify by color. > >Mary Sue >Mary Sue Ittner >California's North Coast >Wet mild winters with occasional frost >Dry mild summers > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From boutin@goldrush.com Sun Jul 20 12:26:46 2003 Message-Id: <002601c34edc$a77af250$0100a8c0@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: Climate and Ledebouria sp Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 09:33:29 -0700 Dear Digby, Thanks for the reply and information on your climate and Ledebouria in Pietermaritzburg, also for the reference. Fred Boutin Tuolumne, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Digby Boswell" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Re: Climate and Ledebouria sp > Dear Fred, > > Our weather here in Pietermaritzburg has been colder than usual this year > with light frost every morning for the past month which equals about -1C/-2C > ( I live at the top of a slight rise) with the marshy are 1/2Km away a good > couple of degrees colder.(There is a nice stand of Cyrtanthus breviflorus > there.) On the other end of the scale our summer days regularly go 36 -37C > with an extreme of 43.5C a couple of years ago. > > I checked all the references I have for Ledebouria socialis to no avail. > Sorry. I have growing in my lawn Ledebouria ovatifolia and L. sp (semi > erect plain light green leaves. Similar flowers to L. ovatifolia.) Both are > naturally occuring here. > > And to Brian Whyer, > > Sometimes I confuse myself with the Zones. Insofar as Hilon and frost is > concerned :- go 2Km north to Cedara and you can ski on the frost every > winter morning. > > For those people looking for bulbs that will survive temperatures down > to -10C a good reference is "A Field Guide toWild Flowers Kwazulu-Natal and > Eastern Region" by Elsa Pooley. Scilla dracomontana comes from the top of > Sani Pass where it is really cold and oddly enough grows and flowers very > well in our Pietermaritzburg climate. > > Cheers, > Digby Boswell. > Pietermaritzburg. -2C > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: boutin > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: 15 July 2003 11:16 PM > Subject: [pbs] Re: Climate and Ledebouria sp > > > > Dear Digby, > > > > Saw your note on Albuca, and I too am interested in your local climate. > How > > cold does it get regularly in winter, and what are the extremes? > > > > Also are Ledebouria species native in your area? Are there any forms of > L. > > socialis which come from areas of winter frosts and cold? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Fred Boutin > > Tuolumne, California > > (zone 7) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Sun Jul 20 13:06:45 2003 Message-Id: <20030720170645.657FE200C4@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Subject: Treasurer's new address Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:06:43 +0000 Hi all, I'll be making my big move to Nebraska on July 31. For the purpose of my sanity (which is already in danger, I must admit) may I ask that you all hold off on sending payment for the next few weeks? I'll arrive in Nebraska on August 5, so if you would hold onto your checks until then, it would be greatly appreciated. Of course, my mail will be forwarded, so everything will get there eventually. My new address (& the new BX address) will be: Jennifer Hildebrand 2000 SW 16 St. Lincoln, NE 68522. Thanks! Jennifer From tony@plantdel.com Sun Jul 20 17:35:27 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20030720173529.00cf08b0@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Epipactis gigantea Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:35:29 -0400 Ernie: Finger slip...you are right. At 09:47 AM 7/20/2003 -0000, you wrote: >When someone as knowledgeable as Tony Avent, and a nursery person in >addition, gives a different name than I am used to, I pay attention because >we do like to have correct nomenclature in our own sales area (I admit to >not having changed our Cimicifugas to Actaea, however--BAD). > >We list Epipactis gigantea 'Serpentine Night' and not Epipactus giganteus >'Serpentine Knight'. The RHS Plant Finder also has the former. Tony, was >that just a slip of the fingers, or is there some controversy regarding the >name? > >Ernie O'Byrne >Northwest Garden Nursery >86813 Central Road >Eugene OR 97402-9284 >USA >Phone: 541 935-3915 >FAX: 541 935-0863 > >"Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we >arrive at that goal." >-- Martin Luther King, Jr. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org >[mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Tony Avent >Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:28 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Epipactis gigantea > > >Mary Sue: > > Surprisingly, Epipactus giganteus grows wonderful for us in bone dry sand. > We irrigate occasionally through the summer, but it has proven to be >amazingly durable. We have grown the cultivar E. 'Serpentine Knight' for >about 8 years. > > >At 07:15 AM 7/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>Dear All, >> >>Our wildflower season is winding down now although we are still enjoying >>the starry flowers of the Chlorogalum on those hot days we walk in the >>evening. A couple of weeks ago however we saw this orchid on one of our >>hikes growing close to the Gualala River. It is probably covered by water >>during the winter months when the River runs high, but now is growing in >>the gravel. A lot of our local orchids really need a hand lens to >>appreciate as the flowers are quite small, but this one has larger flowers. >>This species has rhizomes and this particular plant is expanding each year. >>My field guide says that it is found on the margins of lakes, streams, and >>springs in the Pacific states. I saw a picture of this species in a slide >>shown by Roger Raiche at a California Horticultural Society meeting as it >>grows on his property, the Cedars, which has serpentine soil and can be >>very hot in summer (and VERY wet in winter.)I thought it was very pretty at >>the time but thought it would need to be quite wet to grow well, but now I >>wonder how dry it would be in summer. Epipactis gigantea is listed in the >>Telos Catalog and maybe Diana will tell us how she grows it. I haven't made >>a Wiki page yet for it, but here are pictures Bob took: >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea.jpg >>And for size: >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Epipactis_gigantea3.jpg >> >>You may remember that we were discussing how to arrange field guides. My >>friend who arranges by color and is rewriting her book was along so we >>began to discuss where she was going to put this plant. She uses white, >>yellow, red, pink, blue, green, and brown as the choices. She was going to >>put it in pink, but had changed her mind to yellow. Most of us voted brown >>as from a distance that is what you notice, but my husband thought green. >>Another said mauve would be good, but my friends just groaned and said >>there wasn't going to be a mauve. I looked it up in Peterson (Pacific >>States Wildflowers) which also arranges by color and it is described as >>having yellow-green flowers, but is on a page that is the transition from >>orange to pink (because of the lip which they describe as orange.) I know >>the colors on everyone's computers will be a little different so don't know >>what you all will think. This certainly illustrates how a few plants are >>challenging to classify by color. >> >>Mary Sue >>Mary Sue Ittner >>California's North Coast >>Wet mild winters with occasional frost >>Dry mild summers >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >Tony Avent >Plant Delights Nursery @ >Juniper Level Botanic Garden >9241 Sauls Road >Raleigh, NC 27603 USA >Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F >Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F >USDA Hardiness Zone 7b >email tony@plantdelights.com >website http://www.plantdel.com >phone 919 772-4794 >fax 919 772-4752 >"I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least >three times" - Avent >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From Theladygardens@aol.com Sun Jul 20 21:38:32 2003 Message-Id: <153.21e57cf1.2c4c9e0c@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Treasurer's new address Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:38:20 EDT Jennifer, do not assume your mail will be forwarded, they forward very little nowadays and most ends up in never never land. My last two moves have been awful mail wise. Anything that comes with a preprinted barcode on it will NOT be forwarded, most everything else gets lost. Sorry but another thing you just have to work extra hard on yourself. If you have a good neighbor you can trust to watch the mail and help it is a good idea. We have a rental on the back of our property and the mail service has been very bad about forwarding past tenants mail when they moved. I did most of it, even calling the tenant when I thought something important showed up here. We were good friends and she came back frequently to pick up mail and I just forwarded lots to her also. They also will not forward magazines, bulletins, etc. Good luck, hope it goes as smoothly as possible. Carolyn in Los Gatos From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 21 01:36:41 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030720223211.00ca9c80@mail.mcn.org> From: Martin Grantham (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Topic of the Week--Woody Irids Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:36:05 -0700 Some Experiences with South African Woody Irids The South African woody irids are a fascinating and little studied group of plants in the Iris family that can grow to be true shrubs producing thickened woody stems that arise from woody caudices. The largest species and the one with the longest cultivation history, Nivenia corymbosa, can exceed nine feet in height with a woody base more than a foot and a half across! There are three genera: the monotypic Witsenia, Klattia with 3 species, and Nivenia with 10 species. All have leaves in two ranks making stiff fans of foliage along flattened stems. The genus Patersonia in Australasia shares many features with the South African woody irids and may be their closest relatives. Patersonia also produces woody growth, but only in underground stems. The previous genera along with Aristea and Geosiris have all been placed in the subfamily Nivenioideae within the Iridaceae based primarily on the pairing of the basic irid flowering unit, called a rhipidium, to form binate rhipidia. I am growing the following species: Nivenia corymbosa N. stokoei N. binata Witsenia maura Klattia flava These were grown from seed either purchased from Silverhill Seeds or shared with me by friends in South Africa. I grow them all with similar care. The free draining soil mix I use includes fine peat, coarse peat, Felton sand, and pumice. I top dress with a layer of pure pumice. I feed with Dr. Greens fertilizer distributed by E. B. Stone in Sasoon, CA, but I think fish emulsion or kelp fertilizers would work as well. These plants produce a large root mass for their size and a relatively large pot is in order. The roots like to be cool, so a black pot hit by full sun can be a problem. I never allow the soil to dry completely between waterings. The plants appreciate bright light and good air circulation. Beyond the seedling stage, the only pest damage experienced has been a bit of nibbling on the leaves by cucumber beetles. The definitive reference to the South African woody irids is Peter Goldblatt's beautifully illustrated 1993 monograph entitled The Woody Iridaceae, published by Timber press. Dr. Goldblatt has since published an additional species of Nivenia, N. parviflora, in Bothalia, 27,2: 101-103 (1997) Now I'd like to share with you some of my experiences with a few of these plants beginning with the genus Nivenia, plants with flowers in exquisite blues to rival the gentians. These wonderful blue flowers are produced in the heat of the summer by 8 of the species and in the spring by 2. Individually flowers last at most 2 days in sun, but each inflorescence can produce flowers in clusters over several weeks. Numerous inflorescences are initiated over a period of a month so that they are out of phase, prolonging the flowering period which can be up to 2 months. Cut inflorescences in water continue to flower for a month or more. Fires occasionally burn plants back to their woody bases and they can resprout vigorously. Nivenia corymbosa is the largest, best known, and longest grown of the woody irids. I first saw flowering plants in 1989 while a horticulturist at UC Berkeley Botanical Garden. Former UCBG Director Dr. Robert Ornduff had grown plants for studies on heterostyly. N. corymbosa is one of the 6 heterostylous (more exactly, distylous) species in the genus, meaning that individual plants produce either long-styled flowers with short stamens or short-styled flowers with long stamens. These were typical "post research" plants in that they were underpotted and filled with weeds. They still flowered wonderfully with many 5/8 in. deep blue flowers with white throats. The soil was a light, sandy clay and much of it pushed out by copious root production. Later, while briefly in charge of the African Plant collection, I was able to find that these plants are easily rooted from cuttings of vigorous shoots direct from the caudex, treated with low level rooting hormone, and stuck in a 50/50 peat and sand mix with bottom heat. Cuttings from flowering plants can flower themselves in one or 2 years from rooting and go on to develop a basal caudex just like a seedling. In 1995 at the end of a work/study program funded by the International Plant Propagators Society I was able to see plants in habitat at Bainskloof in western South Africa with Rod and Rachel of Silverhill seeds. I ordered seeds of 3 species from Silverhill that year: N. corymbosa, N. stokoei, and N. binata. I also obtained seed of Witsenia maura via friends from Betty's Bay. Planted without special treatment in the fall of 1995, these seeds followed a germination pattern which indicated they might have a seed dormancy. Germinants appeared in the fall of 3 successive years. I later made tests of N. corymbosa that indicated aged seed germinated well (near 50%) without special treatment, that a GA3 soak at high concentration could increase germination about 10% and make it occur earlier by a week, and further that smoke extract alone delayed germination about a week. Seedlings proved susceptible to two problems in a greenhouse: spring aphids seems to illicit an almost toxic response with yellowing and rapid death at moderate levels of infestation, Botrytis (grey mold) attacked the first senescent leaves and progressed into the stems. Both problems might have been lessened by growing outdoors in higher light where the young plants would produce a tougher cuticle. I ended up with 15 plants from my first sowing of C. corymbosa, now 8 years old. The largest has exceeded 4 ft. in height and 3 ft. in width and is producing 50 inflorescences that should flower in Sept. Only 3 of the 15 plants have become competant to flower as yet so this species can have quite a long juvenile period. Nivenia stokoei has the largest flowers of the genus up to 1.5 in. across that vary from pale silvery blue to deep blue. It is not heterostylous. The foliage is quite waxy glaucous. It grows in a limited coastal area in and around the Kogelberg Biosphere Reserve. Out of 5 seedlings from 1995, all were competant to flower within 5 years and 3 flowered within 4 years, so this species appears to have a shorter and more uniform juvenile period. The largest plant has reached 2 ft. in height and 2.5 ft. in width in 8 years. When grown under artificial light the flowering time can be shifted. This species also appears easily propagated by cuttings treated as described above. Seed germination has been poor. Nivenia binata blooms in the spring with flowers that range from pale blue to dark blue and up to a little over 3/4 in. across. The branching pattern of the inflorescence brings the flowers nearly into a single plane It is a heterostylous species. It grows in the Swartberg Mountains over a range of conditions. Out of 4 seedlings only one has become competant to flower in 8 years. The largest plant has reached 2.5 ft. in height by 2 ft. in width. Seed germination has been poor in several attempts. I had the opportunity to see N. argentea and N. stenosiphon flowering in habitat last Dec. They were growing in a harsh environment in the Rooiberg Mountains which are in the middle of the Klein Karoo. Heading up out of succulent scrub there is an interesting transition to a fynbos community and near the top of the formation the woody irids appear. N. argentea is striking with silvery bracts around the large flowers of an extraordinary blue. It grew both in exposed areas and under dense shrubs. N. stenosiphon was generally growing directly in cracks in rocks and showed many charred branches from previous fires. Witsenia maura is a plant of wetlands and fairly low elevation. It has large flowers (almost 2 in. long and over 3/8 in. wide) that remain closed with bright yellow, beak-like tips, a green zone which intensifies almost to black and then fades to yellow again at the base. The flowers are borne in conspicuous pairs that mature at the same time. The stigma protrudes from the tip like a snake's tongue. Out of 4 plants from a 1995 sowing, all have flowered in 8 years with the first flowering in 5, so this plant appears to have a relatively short and uniform juvenile period. Despite a nutrient poor soil mix, the plants I'm growing do not stand erect as I've seen them in the wild. They are growing in a way that I interpret as the result of too much nitrogen and must be staked. Germination is reported as good and I think I sowed under 10 seeds to get 4 plants. The tallest has reached 6 ft. in 8 years, but would be lying on the ground without its stake along with its numerous basal branches. Klattia flava is not the star of the genus, but a few seeds have yielded 2 small plants at this time that appear to be doing quite well. It is reported that Klattia gradually regresses and dies in cultivation, but this may be based on plants dug from the wild rather than grown from seed. The most desirable plant in this genus would be K. stokoei because the leaves below the fringed head of flowers turn a bright scarlet and hold that color for a long time after flowering. It is a most beautiful plant that grows in the coastal region in and around the Kogelberg Biosphere Reserve. I know some South Africans are trying to grow it and hope they will be successful in its cultivation. Picture Links: Nivenia stokoei My photo of habitat in Kogelberg Biosphere Reserve http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/NiveniaStokoeiSM.jpg and another good link for this species: http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantnop/niveniastokei.htm N. binata: http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/alpines_and_bulbs/67324/latest/12#mes sage_6 Klattia stokoei and K flava, find beautiful pictures of them on this list in Missouri Botanical Garden's Tropicos database: http://mobot.mobot.org/W3T/Search/image/iix44.html Witsenia maura flowering photographed at San Francisco State University by Dr. Bob Patterson http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Witsenia_maura.jpg I will be selling Nivenia corymbosa plants at the Harland Hand Memorial Garden 9-7-03 and hope to have a flowering plant on hand. Check out this event at: http://www.harlandhandgarden.com/Events.htm Martin Grantham 7-20-03 From peter_kaye2002@yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 21 12:06:49 2003 Message-Id: <20030721160643.25338.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Peter=20Kaye?= Subject: Topic of the Week--Woody Irids Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:06:43 +0100 (BST) Martin, a comprehensive introduction for such a poorly known group of plants. My experiences with seed raised plants tallies very much with yours. Most of the group seem to need an after ripening period of 6 months to germinate successfully. If this is adhered to, and the seeds treated with smoke extract then germination can be easy. NN. corymbosa and binata germinate profusely; I have found stokoei less easy. Corymbosa seems the easiest sp, and the most hardy - my plants in the UK were grown outdoors and on occasion covered with snow with no ill-effects. Here in Cape Town stokoei grows easily in a border with irrigation in summer. It makes a particularly good companion to lavenders. N. dispar is of similar stature to corymbosa but with larger flowers and in my recollection rather more tender. Klattias are an entirely different matter. They strike easily from cuttings, but both seed raised plants and cuttings are very difficult to maintain for any period. They strongly resent changes in environment such as light levels, humidity and watering regimes, and respond (ie die) promptly without even passing through a sickly period. A shame, because Klattia stokoei is reminiscent of an upright Heliconia. To have maintained plants for any length of time is a remarkable achievement. Thanks for the introduction to my favourite irids. Peter --------------------------------- Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 21 16:21:26 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030721131138.00d55e20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Topic of the Week--Woody Irids Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:20:43 -0700 Dear All, Andrew Harvie has given permission to put his picture on the wiki so I have added it: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Nivenia_binata.jpg Or see the whole page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanWoodyIrids Martin has slides of others he saw in the wild and may in the future have a chance to scan them and add them to the Wiki. Does anyone in this group besides Peter grow these? My friend Jana started some from Silverhill seed a number of years ago and shared one of her seedling pots and I have one survivor of Nivenia corymbosa. I finally decided it looked like something that should be in the ground, not a pot, so I planted it out last year. I had no clue about size so placed it in a place where it could get sun and where we water weekly in summer. It is still there, but not vigorous at all and if it lives up to Martin's prediction in his wonderful introduction to this topic it is in the wrong place! (Nine feet tall and a foot and a half across, oops!) At the way it is growing however it is going to take a very long time to get to that size. Mary Sue From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Mon Jul 21 16:25:51 2003 Message-Id: <194.1c5aea51.2c4da64c@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Topic of the Week--Woody Irids Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:25:48 EDT In a message dated 7/21/2003 4:21:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, msittner@mcn.org writes: > Does anyone in this group besides Peter grow these? I have a couple of yearlings growing in the greenhouse. Germination was not very good and I lost several to a fungus. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142 www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From nclarke@ansonic.com.au Tue Jul 22 09:04:26 2003 Message-Id: <000a01c34fec$dcc9e180$1f4e7bcb@main> From: "nclarke" Subject: Lilium martagon from seed Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:02:02 +1000 I live in Southern Australia and have ordered some seeds of Lilium Martagon. Can anyone offer any advice on growing them from seed? English magazines say they self seed readily - I know they take several years to flower - but I wonder if they will self seed in our climate. Thanks Diana Young From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 22 10:33:58 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030721222133.00d53eb0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus pictures on the wiki Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:20:29 -0700 Dear All, In the fall of 2000 Diana Chapman included a mystery bulb of Calochortus weedii var. weedii in my order (I spent hours looking at the catalog looking for the typo. so I could get the free bulb). It is a southern California species that comes from Riverside and San Diego counties which are much much drier than where I live. This bulb didn't bloom in 2001 or 2002, but didn't rot either. Last year I didn't get around to repotting it and this year it came up and never looked like it was going to do much, but stayed green and last week I noticed it was actually going to bloom. I've had Calochortus abort so I tried not to get too excited. I grow it in my area that I shelter somewhat from the rain (covered but open so the wind does blow the rain in) and it has been the only thing left there that is not dormant so every now and then I'd give it a drink. Today it opened. Although there can be six flowers (and Will Ashburner reported 10 one time long ago on the IBS forum causing some amazement), this one only had one flower. So I suspect it won't be in bloom long. It is very beautiful however and my husband has managed some amazing pictures of it. Thank you Diana. Bulbs of North America says this one is difficult and short-lived in cultivation. So fingers are crossed that this is not just a one year event. The ones I have grown from seed from my friend Bob Werra I have had very little success with after the initial germination which has been good. But now I am determined to try harder. He says he starts his inside under lights and doesn't move them outside until April. I started my Calochortus seed this year in late February and didn't lose as many as I have when I have started them in the fall. As long as I was putting those pictures on the Wiki I got around to adding the pictures of Calochortus argillosus which Bob photographed earlier when it was blooming in June and hadn't found time to add. It is a very pretty one and one of the species which multiplies by bulblets. See them both on the Calochortus wiki page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calochortus And I finally got around to adding another Moraea picture. This one bloomed in late May. It is one of the ones formerly known as Gynandriris and this one is a Mediterranean one that my friend Jana shared with me that she got from Fausto, Moraea sisyrinchium. Another one I grow (from seed) blooms much earlier in the year. Jana's note said it was from Marettimino (?) Island. Could that be spelled right? In John Bryan's Bulbs he says this species is not very showy and grown mostly for botanical interest, but I thought it quite handsome each day a new flower opened. And the other one I grow can be nice too depending on the weather when it is in bloom. If we are having a dry period with sunshine it is much happier than if it is blooming when it rains every day. So this later blooming one may turn out to work out much better for me. Since these flowers open later in the day, if it is cold and wet I miss them. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea_sisyrinchium3.jpg Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From eagle85@flash.net Tue Jul 22 18:45:48 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Calochortus pictures on the wiki Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:38:04 -0700 Mary Sue IttnerDoug Westfall msittner@mcn.org1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Dear Mary Sue, That is a GREAT one. Thanks for posting it. Doug From awilson@avonia.com Tue Jul 22 20:06:05 2003 Message-Id: <000501c350ae$7c5f2e50$6401a8c0@andrewqkzll11n> From: "Andrew Wilson" Subject: Calochortus pictures on the wiki Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:07:59 -0700 Dear Mary Sue, Thanks for forwarding the message on your recent success with Calochortus weedii ssp. weedii. I am sure you feel pleased, and with good reason - the Jepson Manual rates it as "DFCLT", which requires no further explanation. Since it occurs right here I thought I might make a few comments. The photos that you (or rather Bob) took are excellent. It seems that the form you have differs from what grows in this area. In particular, the reddish coloration of the petal edges is absent in the local form of species which instead, bears black to very dark brown markings. It is easier to view a shot than make an accurate description so, when shortly I'll send a file so you can see the differences. I am curious to know from which region the Telos bulbs originated. Locally the plants generally bloom in June and, with Clorogalums, are about the last of bulbs to show up. They rise to about three feet and generally are found appearing above bushes of the black sage (Salvia mellifera) or rising high above the native grasses (Nasella spp.) This year was the first one in several for much bloom to appear so it was a treat to see them last month. In very dry years they either do not show at all or the stems are eaten when they emerge. Andrew San Diego -----Original Message----- From: Mary Sue Ittner [mailto:msittner@mcn.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:20 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Cc: hometown@pacific.net; Dr. Andrew Wilson Subject: Calochortus pictures on the wiki Dear All, In the fall of 2000 Diana Chapman included a mystery bulb of Calochortus weedii var. weedii in my order (I spent hours looking at the catalog looking for the typo. so I could get the free bulb). It is a southern California species that comes from Riverside and San Diego counties which are much much drier than where I live. This bulb didn't bloom in 2001 or 2002, but didn't rot either. Last year I didn't get around to repotting it and this year it came up and never looked like it was going to do much, but stayed green and last week I noticed it was actually going to bloom. I've had Calochortus abort so I tried not to get too excited. I grow it in my area that I shelter somewhat from the rain (covered but open so the wind does blow the rain in) and it has been the only thing left there that is not dormant so every now and then I'd give it a drink. Today it opened. Although there can be six flowers (and Will Ashburner reported 10 one time long ago on the IBS forum causing some amazement), this one only had one flower. So I suspect it won't be in bloom long. It is very beautiful however and my husband has managed some amazing pictures of it. Thank you Diana. Bulbs of North America says this one is difficult and short-lived in cultivation. So fingers are crossed that this is not just a one year event. The ones I have grown from seed from my friend Bob Werra I have had very little success with after the initial germination which has been good. But now I am determined to try harder. He says he starts his inside under lights and doesn't move them outside until April. I started my Calochortus seed this year in late February and didn't lose as many as I have when I have started them in the fall. As long as I was putting those pictures on the Wiki I got around to adding the pictures of Calochortus argillosus which Bob photographed earlier when it was blooming in June and hadn't found time to add. It is a very pretty one and one of the species which multiplies by bulblets. See them both on the Calochortus wiki page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calochortus And I finally got around to adding another Moraea picture. This one bloomed in late May. It is one of the ones formerly known as Gynandriris and this one is a Mediterranean one that my friend Jana shared with me that she got from Fausto, Moraea sisyrinchium. Another one I grow (from seed) blooms much earlier in the year. Jana's note said it was from Marettimino (?) Island. Could that be spelled right? In John Bryan's Bulbs he says this species is not very showy and grown mostly for botanical interest, but I thought it quite handsome each day a new flower opened. And the other one I grow can be nice too depending on the weather when it is in bloom. If we are having a dry period with sunshine it is much happier than if it is blooming when it rains every day. So this later blooming one may turn out to work out much better for me. Since these flowers open later in the day, if it is cold and wet I miss them. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea_sisyrinchium3.jpg Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue Jul 22 20:39:13 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Gynandriris sisyrinchium Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:39:12 +0000 Dear Mary Sue: Gynandriris sisyrinchium (now Moraea) is a very gorgeous plant, easy to grow in well drained alkaline soil and in full sun. A mature corm will produce daily flowers for a long period. It looks like a miniature "Iris" with a long Moraea leaf. It is among the most dependable Mediterranean plants. A dry summer rest is important. We have grown this for decades in 16 cm. pots without any problem. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Jul 23 10:52:58 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030723074410.00b4af68@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Calochortus pictures on the wiki Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:51:49 -0700 MAry Sue wrote about Calochortus weedii: >Bulbs of North America says this one is difficult and short-lived in cultivation. So fingers are >crossed that this is not just a one year event. Frank Callahan's article on Calochortus tends to exaggerate the difficulty of growing these plants. Frank grows them outdoors in southern Oregon, a very good climate for many American bulbs but perhaps a bit cold for some of the more southerly species. I've found that many of his "difficult" rated species are not much of a problem in my bulb frames, so perhaps a little help with the climate tips the balance -- as Mary Sue mentioned, she covers the area where this plant grows. Calochortus plummerae is just finishing up here and there is one more to flower -- I think a form of C. vestae. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 14:22:04 2003 Message-Id: <3F1EC38D.75840781@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Lilium martagon from seed Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:19:09 -0700 Dear Diana Lilium martagon can be sown in a mix of vermiculite and sphagnum peat of in just vermiculite. The medium should be moist but not saturated. sow 2 ounces in 0.5 gallon of medium. mix seed and medium well, then place in a plastic bag with top open and store in the dark at 60 to 70 F, ( 15 to 21 C) for two or three months. Then place in 50F (10C) for some 3 weeks, then cold storage, some 34F (1 C ) for at least 12 weeks. Then plant in spring covering about 1/2 inch deep. Or you can sow in seed flats in late July or August in the northern hemisphere. When in the following spring the seedlings can be easily handled, you can pot them up or line them out in well prepared soil. Grow on 'till of good size when they can be planted out Hope this helps. If you wish to try it you can prepare a fine seed bed outdoors and cover the seed with 1/2 inch of soil mix and grow them on that way. For all lily growers I suggest a copy of Edward Austin McRae's book LILIES published by Timber Press would be a sound investment. Cheers, John E. Bryan _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 19:08:49 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030723123712.00b439b8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Conservation nightmare Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:45:29 -0700 Anyone who has visited countries where goat herding is common is familiar with the terribly degraded condition of the native flora, especially where this animal has been introduced recently among plants that have not had millennia to adapt to this pressure. Thanks to the U.S. Forest Service, we will soon get a chance to see this type of disaster in the U.S. Southwest near Prescott, Arizona. According to a news report (LA Time-Washington Post Service, publ. in Portland Oregonian, 23 July 2003, p. A6), the USFS is experimenting with turning herds of goats, managed by Navajo herders, loose to chew a "perimeter" between Prescott National Forest and "wilderness homes." The report states: "The uneaten plot is thick with green shrubs that make it nearly impossible to walk without tripping. The finished product [after goat grazing] has open areas with nubs of oak shrubs, mountain mahogany, and manzanita. 'These little guys are 100 percent focused. They're eating this stuff like ice cream,' said [a USFS project assistant]." And where do threatened native bulbs grow in the American West and other dry regions? They grow among the shrubs -- and they are mostly very palatable to grazing animals. Let's hope this "management strategy" never gets beyond the experimental stage! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon -- in a potential forest fire zone, and with NO GOATS. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 19:08:49 2003 Message-Id: <19fS4v-01QXkO0@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Amorphophallus Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:27:21 +0200 Dear All, As my greenhouse gradually becomes impenetrable with the giant umbrella leaves of some Amorphophallus leaves, I need your help! I grow three different species, at least according to the people I got them from. One is A.konjac, that is sure because it is of flowering size and has flowered many times. The other two have not flowered and are A. johnsonii from Mr Thomerson and A.suaveolens from Fausto Ceni this one being relatively small. Now: All the leaves of these ever increasing giants look absolutely identical and it starts to dawn on me that the two others are A. konjac, too. In that case, of course, they would fall victim, no, not to the compost heap but to one of the BXes. Can anybody help me in identifying them without flowers? Are the leaves of the above species identical to A.konjac? Do these species exist after all? Are there differences in the way the leaflets are attached to the main ribs? Stem colouring? size and number of leaflets in relation to plant size and so on? Looking forward to get some urgent help...... should you not hear from me for some time, it's because I didn't find my way out of my greenhouse! Uli _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 19:08:49 2003 Message-Id: <005101c35172$8aa1ffa0$9fe02052@VRouter.com> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Tulbaghia x Narcissus Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:31:28 +0100 Dear All, This is very important to me. I have just been sent the following message. >>>>I heard a rumor someone up farther north in California was doing active breeding with T. fragrans x Narcissus sp., with results, the thought being since they are both cupped amaryllidaceae. Can anyone substantiate this, it would seem an incredible claim, but one that is very credible especially when Tulbaghia are n=6 and some Narcissus n=24. Farther north in CA means farther north than Monterey Bay. Obviously, the person responsible may wish to remain anonymous, but if anyone can help and would like to e-mail me privately, please send a message too crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Similarly, does anyone know any n=24 Narcissus. Many Thanks, Dave (Plymouth, UK) Websites: www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com Address: David Fenwick NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 15/07/03 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 14:11:40 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030723183920.00addcc0@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Tulbaghia x Narcissus Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:44:58 -0500 Hi all, Sounds utterly incredible to me! Tulbaghia are in the Alliaceae, and unless you sink Amaryllidaceae into Alliaceae as has been suggested, Narcissus are in a different family. In any case, I suspect that it is completely unprecedented to get a viable hybrid between any Alliaceae and any Amaryllidaceae. Embryo rescue would probably be the least extreme measure needed to get a live plant from such a cross. Has anyone ever heard of a successful cross of any Narcissus with any amaryllid outside that genus? Actually, such a hybrid is not something I would simply take anyone's word for. I would not believe such a cross had succeeded without seeing cytological evidence for chromosomes of both supposed parents in the supposed offspring. Just my 2 cents worth! Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 19:08:49 2003 Message-Id: <007601c35176$8ad7dfe0$9fe02052@VRouter.com> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Tulbaghia x Narcissus Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:00:07 +0100 Jim, Amaryllidaceae, Alliaceae, Lilaceae ............ Has anyone yet come to any firm conclusions; and whilst I've a lot of faith in science, there's still so much work that needs to be done to understand many relationships. Remember it's only really the superior ovary that CURRENTLY places Tulbaghia in the alliaceae, and the umbellate inflorescence is a usual character for Amaryllidacae. However, I completely agree with you, as incredible as it sounds. I'm helping Edinburgh RBG with a study into Tulbaghia at the moment. If there is an intergeneric cross out there I must find out, and find out as much as I can, and for it may help best place Tulbaghia. I don't want to cause any controvercy about plant breeding, I just need to know if other people have heard the same rumours, as they have originated from a very good source, which shall remain anonymous. Best Wishes, Dave Websites: www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com Address: David Fenwick NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 15/07/03 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 19:08:49 2003 Message-Id: <002d01c3517a$dcc58ce0$32fa8690@m5p0g6> From: "Shayne Willis" Subject: T.O.W - Woody Irdis Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:30:47 +1000 Hi All, I have been lurking for sometime behind the scenes but I thought I would come out of the dark and say a couple of words. Having only a small amount of knowledge on bulbs it is easier to glean from experience. You know the old saying "It's better to seem dumb than open one's mouth and remove all doubt." On the topic of woody irids, there is a book available (if this wasn't already known) on these wonderful plants. It has been written by P. Goldblatt and the water colours are from Fay Anderson, and we all know how well those two people work together, making for another awesome book. To view the book at Timber Press follow the link below. http://www.timberpress.com/books/index.cfm?do=details&ID=52 I enjoy reading your emails and seeing how things go in other parts of the world. The calibre of collectors and growers that frequent this forum are a wealth of knowledge and inspiration. Since the formation of the worlds newest bulb organisations ( P.B.S & A.B.A), the world of bulbs have their fate secured for future generations. Keep up the marvellous work. Regards, Shayne Willis. Yackandandah.....in the foothills of the alps. Victoria, Australia. It has been raining for 30hours non-stop, hopefully bulbs won't be waterlogged. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 19:08:49 2003 Message-Id: <4f.320ea45a.2c509938@aol.com> From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Subject: Tulbaghia x Narcissus Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:06:48 EDT In a message dated 7/23/03 5:07:05 PM, crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk writes: << I don't want to cause any controvercy about plant breeding, I just need to know if other people have heard the same rumours, as they have originated from a very good source, which shall remain anonymous. >> In Narcissus the basic number is n=7, except in the tazetta group where n can be 10 or 11 but not 7, hence the frequent but not inevitable sterility when one crosses the tazetta group to other Narcissus. At least this is how I learned it 20-25 yrs ago, since then various oddball species have been discovered and I am not sure if they fit in any differently or not. Harold Koopowitz is the one to ask about that. And he has worked with N. serotinus, whose basic number is, I think, n=5. Best wishes, Bill the Bulb Baron William R.P. Welch P.O. Box 1736 (UPS: 264 West Carmel Valley Road) Carmel Valley, CA 93924-1736, USA Phone/fax (831) 659-3830 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 14:12:52 2003 Message-Id: <003a01c3518b$05522780$4cf0fc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Conservation nightmare Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:26:39 -0700 Hi Jane: I am also very concerned about the use of goats to "keep down" weeds or other vegetation. They are being used on an Indian reservation where I have friends to keep down vegetation and reduce fire hazard. In addition to the fact that they eat everything indiscriminately, they escape. I can forsee goats being a worse menace than feral pigs in the Mendocino National Forest, and yet goats are being promoted as an ecologically sensitive way to "control" weeds or exotic species. Haven't we learned ANYTHING??? Vast areas of the Mediterranean basin were, in past centuries, virtually denuded of their native vegetation by ---- goats. I am sure this applies to other areas of the world. Goats are the most talented escape artists - it is extremely difficult to keep them contained. I simply can't understand why certain elements in the conservation movement, of all things, are promoting the use of goats. Diana _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 14:13:31 2003 Message-Id: From: Steve Marak Subject: Amorphophallus Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:46:14 -0500 (CDT) Uli, Some amorphs have a distinctive leaf or petiole and can be identified when not in flower (especially if the possible choices are restricted) but in general I think it's very hard without inflorescences. (With inflorescences, there are people over on the aroid list who can identify any of them practically immediately.) The variation within a single species can be great, too - there are a number of cultivars of konjac, including dwarf and giant forms and some with distinctive petioles. I can't find A. suaveolens on the species list on MoBot's Tropicos or the aroid.org amorphophallus list ... A. johnsonii is, but only pictures of the infloresence. If they all turn out to be konjac, you might try one outdoors - konjac is very hardy, several people in the US growing it in zone 5 (-20 F/-28 C) areas. Mine tolerate some nasty wet winters. Steve _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 14:14:21 2003 Message-Id: <00f401c351bf$b6e0e020$bd2107d5@oemcomputer> From: "Jamie" Subject: Conservation nightmare Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:43:21 +0200 Jane, Diana, et all, this is an alarming state of affairs, where , once again, the USFS is handling un-researched and against the general welfare of the US wild areas (remember the scandal selling protected forest to the paper companies...at a huge discount! Still going on, as far as I know) Agreed, politics has no place on this robin, however, conservation does! I would urge all members to send an E-Mail to the responsible department(s) expressing our vehement anger at this squandering of natural beauty and resource, apparently to make it a bit easier for back-packers to toss their plastic waste across the landscape! Let's get real, anyone interested enough in the wildlife to trek in such areas is not going to complain about shrubberies ripping their hose or loose stones snapping a heel! We have many protected areas in Europe, from learning the hard way, and, in order to access these areas one MUST stay on proscribed paths (often wooden walks raised above the landscape). It works, the areas are great attractions and the biotope receives minimal impact. The manifold inhabitants of these areas make them living museums at all times of the year. We still need more of them, mind you. The further South one moves through Europe, the less diverse it becomes, a sad fact. Parts of Spain, Italy, Turkey and Greece are virtual deserts from goats and sheep grazing the flora into extinction and the homes of fauna are permanently destroyed. Much of this lost biotope will never be recovered! In a real sense, these areas represent our versions of "Save The Rainforest", yet, in our arrogance, we treat them like many products in the modern world....disposable! OK, I've soap-boxed enough, but, in my opinion, every precious piece of biotope must be considered. Even smaller areas harbour endemic species. Then there is the "policy" question. If they do it here, they will later do it somewhere else, with possibly disasterous results. The only thing I cannot supply is the proper E-Mail address. Can someone help us out here? Remember, America still has one of the last great wildernesses on our planet, to loose it piecemeal would be one of the greatest crimes of modern man. Jamie Vande Cologne Germany _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Fri Jul 25 06:55:03 2003 Message-Id: <001f01c351c2$68d683a0$7066fea9@v7m1f0> From: "Greg Pettit" Subject: Conservation nightmare and maligned goats Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:00:15 +0200 Greetings, Ernie, I have to back you strongly on the subject of goats. It is not that goats "overgraze", rather that some idiot human allowed them to do so. (I have a small flock of Dwarf Cameroon Mountain goats (my pride). The ram is a MASSIVE 500mm/21 inches tall at the shoulder). In every case of degradation by animals of natural (or unnatural) resources the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the humans that allowed them to do so. (rabbits in Australia, Elephants in Botswana, goats on islands, etc). Goats must rank as about the most intelligent of all animals. I have seen hundreds of 'road-kills' and a few score humans that have been run over BUT NEVER ONE GOAT!! >>>>>You should see what they have done to areas of South Africa<<<<< Harold, they only did what their human owners allowed them to do. Perhaps if the indigenous people were not moved into "sub economical agricultural" areas the vegetation would have fared better. You will notice that the degraded areas (in SA) are also those where the human population is heavy! Regards Greg _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 14:15:27 2003 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: Conservation nightmare Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:01:15 -0000 Well, I do believe that goats are being maligned here. Goats happen to be very efficient browsers and can subsist on the poorest of scrub vegetation in areas that sheep and cattle cannot. I'm afraid that they are often blamed for damage that has already occurred through logging, poor agricultural practices and erosion. Then someone introduces goats because they are the only possibility in such a degraded situation and then the goats are blamed for the damage. This is not to say that the idea of the Forest Service is necessarily a good one, or that I think that goats are not responsible for any damage, but let's be fair. It is not the fault of the goat, it is the poor practices of the managers of the land that is responsible for such degradation, including the introduction of too many animals for the amount of browse available. My two cents, but this is also off topic, in my opinion. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene OR 97402-9284 USA Phone: 541 935-3915 FAX: 541 935-0863 "Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 06:38:29 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030724221715.01ecd100@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Lilium martagon from seed Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:17:15 +1000 At 11:02 22/07/03 +1000, you wrote: >I live in Southern Australia and have ordered some seeds of Lilium Martagon. Can anyone offer any advice on growing them from seed? English magazines say they self seed readily - I know they take several years to flower - but I wonder if they will self seed in our climate. > Diana, Where actually are you in Southern Australia? I live in Canberra and L. martagon definitely sets seeds itself here without any help or care from me . Do you already grow L. martagon? If not drop me a line privately and I'll see if I can unearth you one to start you off. It may not be flowering size, but it's a darn sight quicker than waiting for the seed. Then yours seeds when they flower will also be a different genetic source to mine as well, thereby adding the genes from my bulb to the ones from your seeds. I'm not sure you'll get them to germiante this season, but I have a vague feeling that L. martagon may take 2 years to come above ground? Certainly mine that were sown in autumn last year did not surface at all during last season so I am expecting them to show up this year. Also, depending where you got your L. martagon seed from they are VERY variable. I grow both the straight species (at least that is what I think it is) and 'Alba' but I have seed down of something called 'Paisley Hybrids' which I have seen pictures of as very variable in colour. Some of the pictures I have seen elsewhere on the Net are extremely different in colours and shadings. I am very much looking forward to finding sources of some of these other colours (be they seed or bulbs) myself as I would love to grow more of them. I just lvoe the "turks cap" styles of Lilium. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 07:09:25 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 34 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:43:24 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 34" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer for your order. This is a charge to defray costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. From Paul Tyerman: SEED: 1. Eucomis hybrid - purple leaves with pink flowers. When coming out of dormancy the shoots are almost black. Flowers can reach 3-4 foot tall. 2. White tigridia hybrid - White with red markings in the bowl. 3. Nerine undulata. Fresh seed. Pink flowers with lovely undulating petals on tall thin stems. Remarked upon by everyone who saw it in my garden. This is seed from plants grown by me from Silverhill seed. Will be germinating by the time they arrive. 4. Cyclamen intaminatum - Gorgeous miniature cyclamen with white flowers with darker veins. Produces a mass of flowers in autumn. Delicate and choice!! Due to flowering time these should be pure as no other species were flowering then. 5. Cyclamen coum - The classic winter flowering cyclamen with chubby deep pink flowers with a dark nose. These were collected from the pink plants, but there was a nearby white plant so it is possible that there will be some variance in the progeny, however at this point there have not been any mixed seedlings appearing, all that have naturally sown are either one or the other colour. Expect deep pink. 6. Cyclamen hederifolium ex 'Island Scented Strain' - These are reputedly a perfumed strain of cyclamen that naturally occured as an island population. I cannot not detect any perfume in my plant, but that is not to say the seedlings will not have the trait. There is a slim possibility that some of these may be outcrosses to other hederifolium plants, but unlikely due to location of the pot. From Hamish Sloan: SEED: 7. Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus 8. Habranthus magnoi - white flowered trumpet shape, not reflexed petals. this is my first flowering from these seedlings. Would like info on this if anyone can say anything. From Mary Sue Ittner: 9. Sparaxis bulbifera--white, picture on the wiki, seed and cormlets 10 . Spiloxene capensis--cormlets, winter growing SEED (winter growing): 11. Cyclamen cilicium--just harvested 12. Cyclamen coum--just harvested From Cathy Craig: A few bulbs of each: 13. Narcissus 'Avalanche' (Tazetta division) ex Bill Welch, especially suitable for mild climates. 14. Freesia viridiflora, ex Lauw de Jager From Dell Sherk: 15. Two bulblets of the following complex cross made by Marvin Ellenbecker: [Hippeastrum pardinum x (H. puniceum x H. evansiae)] x H. papilio - selfed. "parent is vigorous - strong bright red with white throat but look at all the possibilities with that background!" Thank you Paul, Hamish, Mary Sue, Cathy, and Marvin !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 14:16:05 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030724082554.01704398@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Conservation nightmare Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:27:56 -0700 The only good goat - is one on a spit rotating over a fire. You should see what they have done to areas of South Africa, Spain and Maroc, as well as nearly every island where they have been introduced. Harold Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 08:43:26 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 34 Almost gone Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:39:29 -0400 Dear All, ONLY the following items remain unclaimed from PBS BX 34: From Hamish Sloan: SEED: 7. Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus From Mary Sue Ittner: 9. Sparaxis bulbifera--white, picture on the wiki, seed and cormlets 10 . Spiloxene capensis--cormlets, winter growing From Cathy Craig: A few bulbs of: 13. Narcissus 'Avalanche' (Tazetta division) ex Bill Welch, especially suitable for mild climates. Thank you, Hamish, Mary Sue, Cathy !! _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 08:43:26 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030724113714.030b5c50@smtp.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Crocus tommasinianus & rodents Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:59:26 -0400 I once planted several hundred Crocus tommasinianus corms where the previous fall a like number of C. vernus hybrids had been planted and promptly devoured. The tommies went virtually unscathed, that year and for several thereafter (until they fell victim to a building project). Coincidence? Perhaps. Elsewhere in this same garden (Fernwood Botanic Garden, to be specific), substantial colonies of C. tommasinianus and C. kotschyanus have persisted for decades. Russell At 03:54 PM 7/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Tony Goode wrote, > >>In situations where rodent predation makes successful crocus >>cultivation marginal Crocus tommasinianus would be the most likely >>survivor owing to its propensity to increase by seed and cormlet >>production. It may be that enough survive predation to maintain the >>population despite rodent activity. > >Russell Stafford >Odyssey Bulbs >8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan >269-471-4642 >www.odysseybulbs.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 31 14:17:24 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B974A0@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Conservation nightmare Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:58:57 -0500 This appears to be an example of a tightly focused short term solution to a complex long term problem. I don't think anyone can argue that losing a house to fire is a good thing. On the other hand, the fire hazards of building near forested areas in the West are well known. Shouldn't homeowners that build in these fire prone areas be required to carry fire insurance, just like folks that insist on building in flood plains are required to carry flood insurance? The gaping hole in this argument (a large one in my opinion)is that everytime there is a catastrophic flood the taxpayers pick up the bill. Guess it would be the same with fire coverage. In Ruidoso, New Mexico, the town council recently reversed itself and not only allowed homeowners to cut down trees of their property but actually enforced guidelines about the maximum woody plant density permitted. The point being, the homeowners were responsible for the work, not a governmental agency. As an aside, my family raised Angora goats when I was growing up. There was no fence good enough to keep them in or out of an area. Unlike sheep, they are very intelligent and we often observed them studying an escape problem until they found a solution. They eat everything including the filters of cigarettes and the cellophane wrappings on the cigarette packages without ill effect (young scientific minds at work). The pastures where the goats grazed were 'pruned' of green vegetation from ground level to about 4' high - about the height they could reach while standing on their hind legs. I can remember only 4 plants they didn't eat: bitter weed, a composite that was very poisonous to sheep, a Labitae, mature cacti and mature Juniperus virgiana. Cabrito; young, tender, pit-barbecued goat was a Fourth of July tradition. When the price of mohair dropped most ranchers sold off their Angora goat herds in west Texas which helped the woody shrubs but the sheep still ate most of the forbs. From my perspective, the only people that could conceive of turning goats lose to control vegetation are so passionate about fire control that they have lost their compassion for anything else in a bigger picture. Hopefully a broader perspective will prevail. Sort of reminds me of the programs to protect our topsoil during the Dust Bowl days that promoted the planting of a lot of non-native plants (kudzu, Lonicera japonica, Rosa multiflora, etc.). Very focused on obtaining a single result. Seventy years after the fact those non-natives that saved the topsoil are now considered to be invasive and a major threat to our natural ecosystems. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Thu Jul 24 17:54:48 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030724143458.00b53e30@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Pacific BX 34 Almost gone Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:37:49 -0700 Dear All, I meant to get a picture up of those Spiloxenes since there are several different color forms so I have just added two to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Spiloxene_capensis.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Spiloxene_capensis3.jpg I'll get a page done (maybe) soon. >10 . Spiloxene capensis--cormlets, winter growing _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Fri Jul 25 08:40:00 2003 Message-Id: From: Sue Haffner Subject: Amaryllis belladonna Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Hi, all, Darned if those Naked Ladies aren't blooming already in my front yard here in Clovis CA. It's been very hot and unusually humid here, though the clouds are finally going away. We are about to set a new record for consecutive 100-degree days. Sue Haffner _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Fri Jul 25 08:40:00 2003 Message-Id: <3F214A3C.6000905@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris squamigera, too... Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:18:20 -0500 Dear Sue: We are seeing our first Lycoris squamigera bloom spike rocketing from earth. Happy Days!! My potted Amaryllis belladonna show no activity yet. >Darned if those Naked Ladies aren't blooming already in my >front yard > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Fri Jul 25 13:01:44 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030725113916.022ab700@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: North American Clivia Society Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:39:48 -0500 Hi all, The North American Clivia Society now has its permanent web site on-line. Please visit us at http://www.northamericancliviasociety.org/ The first issue of our newsletter, The Clivia Quarterly, is in preparation; we expect publication in a couple of months. Jim Shields, president ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Fri Jul 25 18:04:40 2003 Message-Id: <3F21AF8A.4010201@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Subject: Arisaema consanguineum "Silver Center" Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:30:34 -0400 A variety of consanguineum acquired from Ellen Hornig at Seneca Hill Perennials. Leaf pattern is already on the wiki wiki Has done very well her in NJ. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_consang_Silver_6.JPG Arnold New Jersey _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Fri Jul 25 18:24:05 2003 Message-Id: <20030726011029.62624.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: New seed sales Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:10:29 -0700 (PDT) I have a fresh lot of seeds and bulbs that are available soon. Email me for more info. Those included are: seeds of: Vellozia spp. Begonia spp. Sinningias (some will be cold hardy to zone 8 or higher) Hippeastrums (species and calypratum hybrids)\ And more bulbs. ===== John Ingram in hot and steamy L.A., CA. Everything is blooming now. Crinums, Sinningias, Canna, Brugmansias, Hymenocallis, Habranthus, Zephyranthes, Cypellas, and so much more. jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Wed Jul 23 19:08:49 2003 Message-Id: <200307232221.h6NML7W05935@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Lilium martagon from seed Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:34:24 -700 On 22 Jul 03 at 11:02, nclarke wrote: > I live in Southern Australia and have ordered some seeds of Lilium > Martagon. Can anyone offer any advice on growing them from seed? > English magazines say they self seed readily - I know they take > several years to flower - but I wonder if they will self seed in our > climate. Martagon lilies do well for me in rather shady, cool conditions. They get no summer water, but the site has a modicum of soil moisture -- the water table isn't far down, I suspect. They are easy from seed, requiring no special treatment. Sow, cover thinly with soil or fine gravel, water, put in shaded coldframe. Germination in the spring. It's now mid-winter in Australia, no? You may have delayed germination until spring a year from now. I suspect the seeds have a winter chilling requirement that they may not get if sown too late in the season. You need patience, as martagons take some years to reach flowering size. If you have a suitable place, line the one-year old bulblets in a nursery bed -- they will likely size up much faster than in a pot. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 07:32:37 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030726221032.00b33ab0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Rain lily stories Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 23:17:06 -0700 Hi all, Last year about this time we were discussing how to get rain lilies to bloom. I haven't had much luck with them in northern California where our summers are cool and it doesn't rain. I tried putting them in my greenhouse so they would be warm and letting them go dormant and soaking them but still most of them didn't bloom. I gave some away to a friend in Texas where I thought they would bloom more reliably and kept a few pots for one last try. Last winter when most of them got Stagonospora curtisii I threw away the ones that looked the worst. I never got around to throwing away one of my pots of Habranthus robustus which is one that I can get to bloom once or twice during the summer. This one was a descendant of the one Fausto distributed as H. biflorus which everyone said was just H. robustus. Mine never had more than one flower. I gave it the trick of putting it under the sprinkler and moving it with the sprinkler so it got really saturated. This has worked in the past, but still there was no sign of life. As I was preparing to chuck them out, I had a twinge (some of you who also belong to Bulbs Anonymous will understand this) and I decided to give them the peroxide treatment that Den Wilson told me about instead. I soaked them and instead of letting them dry for days as he instructed potted them up. (You see I was ambivalent or I would have followed the instructions exactly.) I put them in the greenhouse to warm up and two days later to my surprise one of them was blooming. Yesterday we had a freak rainstorm here. Normally we have no rain at all in summer and this was a brief thunderstorm which we also rarely have and mostly it just settled the dust. I am sure it would be reported as a trace. I have been madly repotting things since I'll be in South Africa when I usually do this and had a whole grouping of pots in one area that I have had to put wire over to keep the jays at bay. Today I looked over there in the sea of pots and saw a flower. What in the world I thought could that be. It was one flower of Habranthus tubispathus. I thought I had thrown all of them out so I looked for the label on the pot. It was labeled Unknowns #1. I have had great fun planting community pots of unknowns and then seeing what they are and this was the first one I planted so far this year. I haven't watered any of those pots and the little bit of rain we got wouldn't have made the soil wet so it had to be the change in barometric pressure? I'm not sure what to do with it now as its a bit early to water the others. So I guess I'll just think of it as a bonus. I've added pictures to the wiki of the two blooms. Doug Westfall just added a picture of Habranthus robustus too so you can see all three. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Habranthus Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 08:13:48 2003 Message-Id: <3F23E3E2.5060908@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Rain lily stories Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 09:38:26 -0500 Mary Sue: I don't have my potted rain lilies in a climate controlled greenhouse like I reported about in IBS a few years ago, but I had excellent success inducing bloom under those controlled conditions, unrelated to barometric pressure changes. I'm basing this on my faulty memory, but I think it is correct. First, conditions still got into the 90's during the day in the greenhouse and a whitewash was covering the greenhouse providing some reduction in light intensity. Also, every watering involved a mild feeding using Peter's 20-20-20 through siphon injection. Rain lilies would be kept watered well for 3-4 weeks at a time, then water was completely withheld for 2 full weeks. A couple days after the return to watering, bloom would be induced on the rain lilies I was growing; Zephyranthes drummondii, Z. grandiflora, and Habranthus tubispathus v. texanus. Now, these particular species are fairly easy to induce bloom, but not all the rain lilies will respond so readily, since their bloom window seems to also correspond to a specific part of the season. My Z. candida might put up a bloom or two during the summer, but they are saving up for one grand display at the end of summer. I think other species might only have a one to two month window of opportunity for bloom during the growing season. From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 08:10:52 2003 Message-Id: <3F23E9AF.8080900@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Subject: arisaema anomaly Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:03:11 -0400 A double spathe on a clone of arisaema consanguineum from Seneca Hills Perennials. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_consang._double4.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_consang._double5.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_consang._double7.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_consang._double8.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_consang._double9.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_consang._leaf_.JPG Arnold New Jersey _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 10:46:01 2003 Message-Id: <000301c35461$6b105820$b521bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: a rain lily story Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:06:24 -0400 I have a pot of Habranthus martinez that a friend in England sent me a couple of years ago when this sort of thing was not only legal, it was also easy. It has been ignored and overlooked in my greenhouse these last few months, since all the other "stuff" got moved outdoors. Five days ago I dribbled some water on it, and the pot has been flowering ever since. It started with three nice white flowers, and now there are eight. The bowl of H. robustus (originally obtained from a "big box" store of one flavor or another) got shoved outside and plunked on the edge of the driveway. Rain. Flowers. It is taking a break now, but has been rewarding me with a goodly show of pink flowers. Anyone out there have Cooperia to share? Someone once sent me some dug from gunky clay in a Texas ditch. They were wonderful. In the throes of the move from CT to NJ they got overlooked and froze. I sure would love to have them back again. Judy in humid New Jersey where the Stargazer lilies are putting on a show of their own. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 14:36:25 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030727105621.00cc5d50@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:27:57 -0700 Dear All, The topic of the week this week is memory bulbs. This was a suggestion from Judy Glattstein. She can elaborate more on what she means by this, but my understanding is that this is an opportunity to talk about bulbs that are special to you because of the memory associated with them. Maybe they came from a friend or were acquired or associated with a trip or a famous person or some event in your life. You are all lucky that this is a busy week for me because this is a subject that I could really run with as so many of the bulbs I grow have such associations. I shall try to restrain myself and limit myself to a post a day. I hope a lot of you will participate in this topic even if just to tell us about one or two such bulbs. I'll start out with the Michael Vassar Oxalis. Michael collected these bulbs in South Africa and then gave them an accession number, MV#... He grew them in an ever expanding collection in Southern California and one year gave a lot of them to IBS to be sold as a fund raiser. You could purchase a whole collection for more than $100. Mike Mace's wife bought him one of the collections as a present. Some of us who thought of Oxalis as a potential pest began to have second thoughts when Mike, Andrew Wilson, Diana Chapman, and Gary Buckley started raving about these wonderful plants. In later years when Mike had extras he shared some with the IBS BX and with me and I have tried to follow his lead in sharing mine. I was lucky enough to hear Michael Vassar lecture on Oxalis twice so in addition to loving these plants for their own sake I have the memory of this gentle quiet man who became so enthusiastic when talking about his favorites, Oxalis and Pelargonium. Of all the ones I grow I think the obtusas are my favorites for their long bloom and bright colors, but there is a MV luteola that I especially like and a MV Oxalis comosa that I acquired at the IBS auction in 2002 donated by Mike that was gorgeous last winter when it was in bloom. So Oxalis MVs get my vote for today and the memory goes beyond Michael Vassar to include Mike Mace who generously shared his collection and to Diana, Andrew, and Gary for providing the extra enthusiasm that made me want to try these. Oxalis now brings me pleasure for much of the year. Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 14:36:25 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030727112148.00cad3a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Topics for August Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:32:14 -0700 Dear All, I want to announce the topics I have scheduled for most of August. After that I am leaving for South Africa and the IBSA bulb symposium and have decided to put the topic of the week on hold while I am gone. If I have access to a computer over there perhaps I'll send out some suggestions that don't require a long introduction, but at least in the northern hemisphere this is a busy time of the year with people repotting and those people selling bulbs sending them off. The list will have to count on all of you in the southern hemisphere sharing your spring with us and hearing about the fall crocus and some of the earlier bulbs in this hemisphere and anything else that comes up. Week starting August 3-4--Flowering without leaves Week starting August 10-11--Eucomis, introduction David Fenwick Week starting August 17-18--Arisaema, introduction by Ernie O'Byrne Mary Sue PBS Topic of the Week Coordinator _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 14:36:25 2003 Message-Id: <002801c3547d$04e927e0$4cd6fc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:24:01 -0700 Dear All: Mary Sue beat me to the punch when she nominated Oxalis as her number one memory bulb. I too can never look at my Oxalis in bloom without thinking of Michael Vassar. Many of my "memory bulbs" do not remind me of people, however, but of wonderful places and trips. I will never forget the first time I saw the pink form of Brodiaea californica blooming in the dry grasses near Chico (in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada in California). There were several acres of these outstanding bulbs with huge glistening umbels of true pink held above the pale dry grasses. Another wonderful memory that is always stirred when Dicholestemma volubile is in bloom is hiking through a burned area in the same region one year and seeing the charred skeletons of manzanita looking as if they were covered with pink roses. On closer inspection they proved to be the umbels of D. volubile which had twined themselves up the blackened trunks. No camera, unfortunately. My first sighting of the beautiful Lilium kelloggii was of a five acre stand covering a whole hillside in glorious bloom - the scent was heavenly! This stand only exists in my memory now, since Pacific Gas & Electric sprayed the entire hillside with herbicides, destroying every plant. Diana Telos _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 14:36:25 2003 Message-Id: <20030727202620.60716.qmail@web40511.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: Amaryllis belladonna Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:26:20 -0700 (PDT) My naked ladies are also starting to bloom in San Gabriel Valley, southern CA Ann Marie Sue Haffner wrote:Hi, all, Darned if those Naked Ladies aren't blooming already in my front yard here in Clovis CA. It's been very hot and unusually humid here, though the clouds are finally going away. We are about to set a new record for consecutive 100-degree days. Sue Haffner _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie Rametta So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees, Lilacs, some tropical plants and most So African plants. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 20:20:45 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030727143055.00b4d398@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:41:16 -0700 From time to time I write memorial notes on members of the NARGS who have died, leaving not only good memories among their friends but also the plants they have generously shared. Bulbs are prominent among these for me. I was inspired to grow bulbs from seed in the late 1980s by the late Molly Grothaus, who brought to a NARGS chapter meeting a spectacular pot of Fritillaria raddeana which she had grown from seed. Later in the summer Molly gave me seeds from those plants, which I grew. I still have the original seedlings, now very large bulbs, and have raised several generations from them, even though my plants set little seed (Molly grew hers in an alpine house, where they were warmer and set seed more readily). She also gave me a start of Colchicum kesselringii that I still have. Floyd McMullen is known widely for his discovery of Erythronium elegans and for an excellent dwarf form of Penstemon davidsonii that bears his name. At one NARGS meeting where we had a fund-raising auction, he brought in a 2-gallon pot of Cyclamen hederifolium from his garden, where for decades he had selected and grown on unusual leaf forms of this popular species. I bought it for about $10, and when I turned it out there must have been 40 corms in it of all sizes. These were the origin of the many plants I now have in the garden -- one of the most permanent and useful "bulbs" for this climate. Many of them have long, narrow leaves. Like Diana, I enjoy growing bulbs that remind me of places I have traveled. Sometimes these are simple, common plants but memory enhances them. There is a wonderful population of Alstroemeria aurea on the open hillsides above the Termas de Chillan in the central Chilean Andes, displaying a fine range of rich colors. I did not get seed from it on either visit I made there, but the Archibalds came a month later and collected seed and offered it. The resulting plants are infesting one end of a bulb frame in a furious manner, but I have managed to move most of them out into the garden on a warm slope, where they flower nicely and entertain the hummingbirds. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Sun Jul 27 20:00:37 2003 Message-Id: <103.3341bd24.2c55e3fd@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Amaryllis belladonna Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:27:09 EDT In a message dated 7/27/2003 4:26:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, mysticgardn@yahoo.com writes: > My naked ladies are also starting to bloom in San Gabriel Valley, southern > CA > And they've just broken ground here in SW Ohio. Bill Lee _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Mon Jul 28 07:05:53 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 35 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:08:35 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 35" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer for your order. This is a charge to defray costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. From Paul Tyerman: SEED: 1. Lachenalia pallida 2. Albuca altissima (this seed was harvested 18 months ago) From Mary Sue Ittner: BULBS: 3. Camassia leichtlinii--winter growing, seedlings, not big enough to bloom so haven't confirmed identity 4. Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus--bulblets, evergreen 5. Geissorhiza monanthos--cormlets, small, beautiful flower, picture on the wiki, winter growing 6. Ipheion uniflorum--white, winter growing 7. Ixia monadelpha--blue-violet, cormlets, winter growing 8. Leucocoryne vittae I think, I didn't get all my pots renamed to the correct name and I had some L. purpurea to share so I'm not sure which this is. Both are nice.--winter growing, from Chile, gorgeous flowers SEED , all of winter growing plants: 9. Bellevalia romana 10. Brodiaea jolonensis-low growing one from Southern California, long blooming early 11. Delphinium ulginosum--2nd generation seed from plants grown from 2300 feet in Lake County California. Fleshy, 3 lobed yellowish green leaves in a basal rosette. 12" spikes of blue-purple flowers. Blooms late spring, early summer 12. Geissorhiza heterostyla--purple 13. Lachenalia aloides aurea--gold 14. Lachenalia elegans suaveolens 15. Lachenalia reflexa-yellow 16. Moraea hybrids--By popular request, remember my different colors and combinations of yellows and oranges on the wiki. Can be weedy in areas that are mild and wet in winter 17. Moraea pendula-- This one was open pollinated, growing near the ones above so probably is a hybrid 18. Pelargonium incrassatum--just a few seeds, wonderful flowers, see on the wiki 19. Romulea citrina--yellow 20. Sparaxis bulbifera--white 21. Sparaxis grandiflora violacea (also a few cormlets)--wiki picture 22. Triteleia ixioides scabra--Seed could be hybridized, the original plants are tall, early blooming and long blooming, vigorous nice bright yellow Thank you, Paul and Mary Sue !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ???@??? Mon Jul 28 11:55:13 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Habranthus or Zephyranthes? Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:45:32 -0700 A couple of days ago I noticed a flower on a plant grown from the '97 Alpine Garden Society seed exchange. It is labelled Habranthus gracilifolius. I checked the photos on the WIKI and my flower didn't match. I decided I'd photograph it the next day and send in the picture. Unfortunately, the next day the flower was gone. Maybe it had been flowering for a few days already when I noticed it. Or do rainlilies only last for one day? I think it is a Zephyranthes instead of a Habranthus, as the flower pointed straight up. It was white with pale pink lines. I've picked apart the soggy flower and think there are 4 stamens. The flower stem to the ovary is 28 cm (11 inches) and at 21 cm (8 inches) there is a thickening with a shrivelled 2.5 cm sheath above it. There are two leaves, one 12 cm and the other 18 cm. They are 2 mm wide. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From lizwat@earthlink.net Mon Jul 28 15:01:51 2003 Message-Id: <3F25738E.52183834@earthlink.net> From: Elizabeth Waterman Subject: Amaryllis belladonna Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:03:42 -0700 They are on the move.  First naked lady in my garden opened this morning here in Oakland. Liz From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Jul 28 15:35:40 2003 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Vellozia sp. photo Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:35:31 -0700 I uploaded a photo of a flower of Vellozia sp. from a plant I got from Kartuz Nursery on a trip with John Ingram (who also purchased one) and others who live in southern Calif. There doesn't seem to be a lot known about this genus from Brazil. However, Mauro Peixoto has some photos of some stunning looking species on his website . Does anyone know of a key or book that describes any species names? Here is the URL: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Vellozia-sp.jpg From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Jul 28 15:47:03 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030728144557.00b0e188@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Amaryllis belladonna Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:47:01 -0500 Bill, Which sort of "Naked Ladies" do you grow in Cincinnati? Lycoris squamigera? Jim Shields in central Indiana, where I have not yet seen any lycoris showing above ground so far At 10:27 PM 7/27/2003 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/27/2003 4:26:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, >mysticgardn@yahoo.com writes: > > > My naked ladies are also starting to bloom in San Gabriel Valley, southern > > CA > > > >And they've just broken ground here in SW Ohio. >Bill Lee >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From nsterman@plantsoup.com Mon Jul 28 15:49:20 2003 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Amaryllis belladonna Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:49:15 -0700 >They are on the move.Ý First naked lady in my garden opened >this morning here in Oakland. >Liz > Mine have been open nearly two weeks in near the coast (but not coastal) San Diego County. Nan -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) NSterman@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From vicm527@tampabay.rr.com Mon Jul 28 16:07:06 2003 Message-Id: <004b01c35543$d00bf440$97175c18@VicLynn> From: "Vic" Subject: Memory plants Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:07:03 -0400 I have been a lurker and have not contributed much to this wonderful list because I feel I have a lot to learn; but I could not resist this topic. The years roll away as I remember Dr.John Wurdack, a herbarium curator at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington,D.C. John liked to seek out and collect plants native to the southeast...and willing shared seeds and seedlings with any one interested. He kindly gave me bulbs of Zephyranthes tubispathus v. texensis and one he called Z. Jacala ( close to red in color) which he said was rare and difficult. I lost the tubispathus when I moved to Arizona but Z. Jacala loved it in Tucson. My collection has grown since then and I have brought them with me to Florida. Unfortunately, Z. Jacala is having difficult time adjusting. I am hopeful it will settle down. Zephyranthes seem to do quite well in our heat and humidity. Lynn Makela Sun City Center, FL From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Mon Jul 28 16:12:54 2003 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: Amaryllis belladonna in bloom Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:16:06 -0700 Rafts of A. belladonna have been in bloom for 2 to 3 weeks in most of Davis, but none of the hundreds planted at my place have bloomed (probably the result of a year or so required to get them established?). Roy From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 28 17:37:05 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030728140910.00dc5310@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Vellozia sp. photo Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:22:33 -0700 Dear All, Lee made a wiki page for Vellozia (Yea Lee!) and I think you all may find it interesting to see what he wrote about it as you can get a better idea of its size. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Vellozia Can anyone provide us more information about this genus so we can add it to the wiki page? Are they all from Brazil? I've looked through old posts and see more questions than answers. I found a reference to the family, Velloziaceae in Pooley's, A Field Guide to Wildflowers Kwazulu-Natal and the Eastern Region. This quotes the common name of the family as the black-stick lily and the species described in that book had black rough fibrous stems. "Fibrous perennials. Stems protected by non-inflammable leaf bases, dwarf or up to 4 m. Leaves in tufts. Afr., Madag and Brazil, 8 genera, more or less 280 species, 2 genera in South Africa" It appears that the two genera in South Africa are Xerophyta and Talbotia (= Vellozia in parenthesis.) Mary Sue From Blee811@aol.com Mon Jul 28 17:46:23 2003 Message-Id: <1e5.e080948.2c56f3a8@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Amaryllis belladonna Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:46:16 EDT In a message dated 7/28/2003 3:47:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jshields104@insightbb.com writes: > Which sort of "Naked Ladies" do you grow in Cincinnati? Lycoris > squamigera? That's the one, Jim. Our local daffodil society had a meeting yesterday and our topic of discussion was other bulbs (than daffodils), especially the so-called "minor bulbs." We essentially went through the Brent and Beckys Bulbs catalog and discussed each one, skipping over tulips and lilies. Some in our group have tried L. radiata, with no success. But everyone said their L. squamigera was emerging. Mine is about 4" out of the ground at the moment. Bill Lee Cincinnati Z6a From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 28 22:42:34 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030728143639.00de34c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:00:44 -0700 Dear All, I have really enjoyed reading about Diana, Lyn and Jane's memory bulbs. I hope some of the rest of you will share as well. I am finding it really hard to choose because there are so many to talk about. Today's choice is Romulea sabulosa. In August 2001 we went to South Africa for the very first time and were so fortunate that after years of drought they had a year of abundant rainfall. We arrived after two days of travel and headed right to the field to look for flowers. The second day we joined an IBSA group and went to Nieuwoudtville. It has to be one of the most amazing days in my life. I am sure I will never forget all we saw that day partly thanks to all those pictures we took and have shared with others. There were many wonderful flowers to see and I won't mention them all although if you have the South African Wild Flower guide 9 to Nieuwoudtville you know what I mean. I was absolutely dazzled and my husband the non bulb fanatic said, "This would be worth the whole trip." That was said before we saw the Romuleas. Sheets and sheets of them. They looked almost metallic they were so shiny. Single flowers of this species are gorgeous, but in mass and in combination with other wonderful bulbs there just aren't words to describe it. I understand the Brunsvigia bosmaniae put on a show like that this past fall and the people who saw it probably will never forget it either. Bill Dijk had already shared seed of Romulea sabulosa and I was growing it. It has bloomed two times since our trip and will always remind me of that day and one two days later when we saw them again and of Rod and Rachel Saunders who were kind enough to share with us their company and some of the places to see flowers in the area. I scaned slides from that time, but they don't really reproduce the way I'd like. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Romulea-sabulosa-mass.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Romuleasab-Hesperantha.jpg And last year's blooms at home: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Romulea-sabulosa.jpg Mary Sue From Arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Jul 28 21:08:26 2003 Message-Id: <3F25C909.6040501@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Subject: Vellozia sp. photo Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:08:25 -0400 Mary Sue; Under Velloziaceae I find vellozia which is only found in Serra do Espinhacoa, but some in Central, East and North Brazil and Bolivia. it is described as a xerophytic shrub of low stature to over 6M high; stem branched, terete or trigonous, including the old leaf-bases; leaf blades reflexing and persistent or caducous along a regular transverse line, not plicate; flowers perfect, perianth tube from equaling the ovary to several times as long..... From Kubitzki "The Families and Genera of Vascular Plants Arnold From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 29 00:04:04 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030728201911.00ccb250@mail.mcn.org> From: "Alberto Castillo" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Vellozia sp. photo Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:19:17 -0700 Dear Arnold, Mary Sue et al: The taxonomy of Vellozias is complicated and not well understood. Most of the species look like Sisyrinchium (grasslike evergreen erect foliage, fibrous or fleshy roots, star shaped flowers). They can be very difficult to grow as their native soils are ancient, acid and poor. It is easy to poison them by providing a too rich soil. A mix of coarse peat, pumice or perlite, and coarse sand would be suitable. Iron should be added from time to time. Some of the species grow in dryish areas, others in moist ground. They hate having their roots disturbed. If seed is available it is better to sow in individual pots or cells and pot on as the plants grow. Most of the species come from frost free dry winter regions. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 29 00:24:18 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030728212109.00d6e950@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: wiki picture Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:23:34 -0700 Dear All, I have been helping Digby with the wiki since he has very limited online time and a slow connection. This past weekend he uploaded the picture below. I was going to put it on a wiki page for him, but I can't find mention of anything by this name. Can anyone help me with any information? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ornithogalum_neopatersonia.JPG Thanks in advance. Mary Sue From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue Jul 29 08:45:36 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Wiki picture Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:45:26 +0000 Mary Sue: The image is of a Neopatersonia sp. Not N. uitenhagensis, the one we are more familiar with in cultivation. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 12:29:12 2003 Message-Id: <20030729162911.46889.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Vellozia Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Lee, Mike Kartuz and Mauro are about the only ones that I know of that grow them. With my new shipment of seeds, there are 7 vellozias listed. I hope others will try them so that we all will have a better understanding of them. Mine that I bought with you died. It was all dry and I threw it away. Little did I know, they can come back from this. I purchased another one last year. It was in really crappy clay soil. So, I repotted it and even broke off a side shoot with several growths. It is doing just fine. I did not water as much as I should have last week (or so). When I got to the garden, it was crisp. I also have several Vellozia (Talbotia) elegans in 1 gal. containers in a shadier area. One of these was also crisp. The leaves on the elegans dried up, curled together and turned a lovely shade of purple. I watered it really well. 4 days later, it is now all plumped back up and growing again. I even noticed a flower stem on it. The elegans is not really a show stopper. I would call it more of a green filler. I did get a picture of this one last year at Wave Hill, NY. They had several hanging baskets of it in full bloom. Back to the purple one. It plumped back up as well and is doing just fine. ===== John Ingram in hot and steamy L.A., CA. Everything is blooming now. Crinums, Sinningias, Canna, Brugmansias, Hymenocallis, Habranthus, Zephyranthes, Cypellas, and so much more. jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Tue Jul 29 12:30:44 2003 Message-Id: <20030729163042.42154.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Open house/tour Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:30:42 -0700 (PDT) I am planning on having an open house at my growing area. Basically to show everyone how not to grow bulbs. LOL I woould like to get an idea of who would be interested and if there are any days that are better than others. I was thinking either Sat. or Sun. in the next couple weeks. ===== John Ingram in hot and steamy L.A., CA. Everything is blooming now. Crinums, Sinningias, Canna, Brugmansias, Hymenocallis, Habranthus, Zephyranthes, Cypellas, and so much more. jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From hkoopowi@uci.edu Tue Jul 29 13:16:24 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20030729101548.01727e88@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Open house/tour Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:16:00 -0700 I might. Harold At 09:30 AM 7/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I am planning on having an open house at my growing >area. Basically to show everyone how not to grow >bulbs. LOL >I woould like to get an idea of who would be >interested and if there are any days that are better >than others. I was thinking either Sat. or Sun. in the >next couple weeks. > > > >===== >John Ingram in hot and steamy L.A., CA. >Everything is blooming now. Crinums, Sinningias, Canna, Brugmansias, >Hymenocallis, Habranthus, Zephyranthes, Cypellas, and so much more. >jjingram@adelphia.net >Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com >www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From jglatt@ptd.net Tue Jul 29 14:43:57 2003 Message-Id: <000301c35602$59048e60$8c21bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: bulbs that bring memories Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:50:53 -0400 One of the seminal books that was important in my development as a gardener, and also in my love of bulbs, was "The Little Bulbs" by Elizabeth Lawrence. In it she mentions Mr. Krippendorf and his garden, Lob's Woods. When I learned that Lob's Woods (in Ohio) was now a public garden, I wrote and asked for information. They had a pamphlet, simply titled "Lob's Woods," which was also written by Elizabeth Lawrence. Fast forward to when I lived in Wilton, CT. Sydney Eddison and I met, and became best friends. A friend of hers was Mr. Krippendorf's granddaughter, and had snowdrops that came from Lob's Woods. Sydney gave me some, and when we moved from Connecticut to New Jersey, some came with me. I never met either Elizabeth Lawrence or Mr. Krippendorf, other than in the printed page. But these little Galanthus nivalis connect their gardens in North Carolina and Ohio, Sydney's garden in Connecticut, and my own BelleWood Garden in a way that is very important to me. From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Jul 29 15:20:22 2003 Message-Id: <013301c35606$7523f870$a7487ad5@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: intro Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:19:51 +0100 hi all I was introduced to this group by a fellow member. Some of you will 'know' me already I live in Antrim - 15 miles NW of Belfast - Northern Ireland where we are zone 8 wamed by the Gulf Stream during the winter. I grow mainly Galanthus and Narcissus but also have a few Cyrtanthus, Haemanthus, Pelargoniums, Ranunculus ficaria and an assortment of spring bulbs. I give talks on many subjects using some of the 1000s of 35mm slides that I have. I'll be online next month talking about my garden. I'll keep you posted. And to keep me amused in the summer months I'm a bat worker - someone who advises house holders on how to cope with bats living in and around the home. While wearing this cap I give TV and radio interviews, bat talks and night walks and have been filmed for various programs. Mark www.marksgardenplants.com www.snowdropinfo.com - needs updated badly! From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Jul 29 15:56:42 2003 Message-Id: <015d01c3560b$879f7830$a7487ad5@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: intro Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:56:09 +0100 me again. I should have pointed out that I grow mainly species Pelargoniums and a few scented ones. Mark From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 29 16:02:45 2003 Message-Id: <007e01c3560d$50fdf4d0$513d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: bulbs that bring memories Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:09:27 -0700 Bulbs and Memories, Thank you Judy for mentioning Elizabeth Lawrence. That brings back the memory of my correspondence with Elizabeth Lawrence in the late 60's and early 70's about "found bulbs", particularly old narcissus cultivars. I was collecting cv's of tazettas in southern California and buying a few old narcissus cv's from listings in the rural farm classified sales sheets that came out from states in the southeast. Elizabeth was a help in putting names on some of these. I still have a large pan of N. jonquilla which dates from this time. It flourished and flowered well in southern California. Grows well here in the foothills of the mid Sierra Nevada's, but hardly flowers. One of my clones of Ledebouria socialis came from the late Ed Carman of Los Gatos. It certainly brings to mind the many happy hours of talking plants with Ed and snooping through his nursery of unusual plants. And it's this dwarf form of the common "violet squill" which prompted my recent interest in the genus Ledebouria and in the variations of L. socialis. This squill brings to mind another bulb which my grandfather always grew and called sea squill, which would have been Urginea maritima, but I think was actually Ornithogalum caudatum, with all the bulbils offsets under the scales. This fascinated me as a child. Also in my grandparents garden was a long wide row of Hippeastrum 'Johnsonii'. This old amaryllis was an unending source of bulbs for giving to friends and neighbors. In later years this bulb came back to me from one of the old neighbors. I no longer grow it, but was happy to see it mentioned recently in the PBS. Fred Boutin 2400 ft. elev. zone 7 Tuolumne, CA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From ggroiti@mail.agro.uba.ar Tue Jul 29 16:53:27 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030729173544.00be1878@mail.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: Habranthus or Zephyranthes? Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:53:16 -0300 Hi Diane: At 11:45 a.m. 28/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >A couple of days ago I noticed a flower on a plant grown from the '97 >Alpine Garden Society seed exchange. It is labelled Habranthus >gracilifolius. I checked the photos on the WIKI and my flower didn't >match. I decided I'd photograph it the next day and send in the >picture. Unfortunately, the next day the flower was gone. Maybe it had >been flowering for a few days already when I noticed it. Or do rainlilies >only last for one day? The flowers usually last 3 or more days >I think it is a Zephyranthes instead of a Habranthus, as the flower >pointed straight up. It was white with pale pink lines. I've picked >apart the soggy flower and think there are 4 stamens. The flower stem to >the ovary is 28 cm (11 inches) and at 21 cm (8 inches) there is a >thickening with a shrivelled 2.5 cm sheath above it. There are two >leaves, one 12 cm and the other 18 cm. They are 2 mm wide. From your description, looks like a Zephyranthes but in both cases there are 6 stamens, 6 equals or 3 long, 3 shorts in Zephyranthes and in 4 different longitudes in Habranthus. If you can take a picture of the leaves perhaps we can have a better idea. Best wishes Germán _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Jul 29 17:29:41 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B974A9@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:29:42 -0500 I will always fondly remember the sight that greeted me as I came around a corner in Inverewe Gardens in Scotland and came upon Cardiocrinum giganteum for the first time. It was mid-July and I had just arrived to begin a year long internship with the National Trust for Scotland from the desert Southwest. Truth be told, the Cardiocrinums were almost finished flowering; but the size of flowers and height of the inflorescence was breathtaking. I asked one of the other interns to stand between the Gunnera and Cardiocrinum and still treasure the picture of the apparent lilliputin among the lilies. In early June near the High Mountain Research Institute located at the Bakuriani Botanic Gardens in the Republic of Georgia, a day trip took us to a broad rolling mountain top covered in a sea of Scilla rosenii in full flower. The flowers varied in color (white to dark blue) and size of flower. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of blooms rippled with the topography into the distance. Large clumps of incredibly white Ornithogalum balansae dotted the hilltop and Caltha palustris outlined the streams and wet places in gold. The weathered bedrock of the mountain was exposed in places; the whole effect typifying an alpine meadow. The wind was blowing briskly and my photographs of the display will never be as crisp and the memory. The first time I've ever seen a sea of bulbs in flower. Heaven must look like that. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Tue Jul 29 17:41:56 2003 Message-Id: <3F26E8B2.4BCC56B0@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: bulbs that bring memories Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:35:46 -0700 Dear Fred: Are you still growing lilies? Cheers, John E. Bryan (Formerly with OBF.) boutin wrote: > > Bulbs and Memories, > > Thank you Judy for mentioning Elizabeth Lawrence. That brings back the > memory of my correspondence with Elizabeth Lawrence in the late 60's and > early 70's about "found bulbs", particularly old narcissus cultivars. I was > collecting cv's of tazettas in southern California and buying a few old > narcissus cv's from listings in the rural farm classified sales sheets that > came out from states in the southeast. Elizabeth was a help in putting > names on some of these. I still have a large pan of N. jonquilla which > dates from this time. It flourished and flowered well in southern > California. Grows well here in the foothills of the mid Sierra Nevada's, > but hardly flowers. > > One of my clones of Ledebouria socialis came from the late Ed Carman of Los > Gatos. It certainly brings to mind the many happy hours of talking plants > with Ed and snooping through his nursery of unusual plants. And it's this > dwarf form of the common "violet squill" which prompted my recent interest > in the genus Ledebouria and in the variations of L. socialis. > > This squill brings to mind another bulb which my grandfather always grew and > called sea squill, which would have been Urginea maritima, but I think was > actually Ornithogalum caudatum, with all the bulbils offsets under the > scales. This fascinated me as a child. Also in my grandparents garden was > a long wide row of Hippeastrum 'Johnsonii'. This old amaryllis was an > unending source of bulbs for giving to friends and neighbors. In later > years this bulb came back to me from one of the old neighbors. I no longer > grow it, but was happy to see it mentioned recently in the PBS. > > Fred Boutin > 2400 ft. elev. > zone 7 > Tuolumne, CA > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Tue Jul 29 18:11:15 2003 Message-Id: <3F26EF92.A3D8EA7E@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: memories, Bulbs. Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:05:06 -0700 Dear All; Seeing acres of bulbs in Holland is a grand sight, but seeing Scadoxus at Victoria Falls, is something else, and Ferraria, Watsonias & Agapanthus in the wild at the Cape of Good Hope is and always will be a thrill. All such in native habitats I prefer to cultivated plantings. Cheers, John E. Bryan From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Jul 29 20:34:21 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:06:50 -0500 Dear all; Just a short one. Each spring our pal Jack Eliott would extoll the virtues of the extra early daffodil 'Cedric Morris'. Hard to find, but I bought a couple from England a year or two ago and their early bloom can't help but remind me of Jack. I never met Jack, but we corresponded a lot. Even seeing the dormant bulb label brings Jack to mind. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From msittner@mcn.org Wed Jul 30 00:10:02 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030729200017.00bd9ce0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:08:25 -0700 Dear All, It is interesting how certain people have made an impression on many of us. I was fortunate to work with Jack on the early issues of BULBS and was a bit in awe of being able to correspond with someone so well known. He shared so much of himself and his experiences with so many people. My two Jack Elliott plants both have blue flowers: Bellevalia dubia and Orthrosanthus polystachyus. The latter may not qualify as a geophyte even though it is in the Iridaceae. It is more of a tufted perennial. After I helped him identify it with my good collection of books on Australian plants, he told me the flowers were a nice blue and asked me if I wanted seed. When it bloomed for the first time this year, I thought it very beautiful and was grateful that I had a plant that I could always associate with Jack. Since it is evergreen and doing well I expect to have it for a long time. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Orthrosanthus_polystachyus.jpg Mary Sue From lynelda@netspeed.com.au Wed Jul 30 02:20:59 2003 Message-Id: From: "Lyn Edwards" Subject: Australian galanthus Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:21:50 +1000 I have added an image of this Galanthus to the wiki, it was raised in Australia and named for Otto Fauser, a plantsman highly regarded in this country http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/GalanthusOtto.jpg Lyn Edwards Canberra Oz From cgleaves@kingwoodcenter.org Wed Jul 30 08:29:24 2003 Message-Id: From: "Chuck Gleaves" Subject: memory bulbs --TOW Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:25:24 -0400 I am a bit ashamed of my memory because, as a gardener, I never followed up. I was studying at the University of Virginia's Mountain Lake Biological Station. I was amazed by the pair of nearly two meter inflorescences of Stenanthium gramineum. I can't explain the permanence in my mind of the imagine of that pair of enormous inflorescences so distinctive from everything else in that field. Is anyone growing Stenanthium gramineum? Chuck Gleaves Kingwood Center Mansfield, Ohio From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Wed Jul 30 08:48:14 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030730224925.01e904d0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:49:25 +1000 At 09:08 29/07/03 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >It is interesting how certain people have made an impression on many of us. >I was fortunate to work with Jack on the early issues of BULBS and was a >bit in awe of being able to correspond with someone so well known. He Mary Sue, I have a lot of plants that are "memory" associated, not all bulbs. My wife and I have plants in memory of each of our miscarriages and there are various plants around my garden that are associated with "little old ladies" in the town where I grew up (I was a gardener from a young age), all of whom have now passed on as far as I know. Those particular plants will always mean that person to me (for example a certain herbaceous Paeony will always remind me of 'Nan Hindmarsh' who died around 16 years ago). Few of these types of plants are bulbs however. I have many more recent bulbs though who will always be associated with specific people. In some cases they are the first plants I received from a given person, or they were something special that I had been searching for for a long time and received as a gift or swap from a given person. To me a swapped or gift plant always means so much more as it comes from a person rather than a nursery. Now-a-days I also have numerous plants coming from seed and the origins of the seed will always be the memory associated with them. Like you, Jack Elliot was friendly to me when I first got into the gardening lists (I had no idea who he was (other than "Jack Elliot", gardener) for quite a while after I met him on email). The first ever bulb seed I sowed was from Jack and included a number of Fritillaria species and 3 different Orthrosanthus. I am hoping that I might actually get my first flower from one of those Fritillarias this year, but definitely next year if not this year. They mean more to me now due to his illness and every time I think about them I hope he is getting better. Here's hoping he fully recovers. But illness or death aren't the only things that trigger memories for me. A couple of years ago there was a discussion on Fritillarias on the old list and Fritillarias pluriflora was mentioned. I had never even heard of pink Fritillarias before this and I queried sources etc. Some wonderful people contacted me privately and offered me seed, no charge. At the same time they sent me other seed with it and all of those seed mean those people and they always will. That was my only source to this date of Fritillaria pluriflora, recurva and Erythronium multiscapoideum 'Pulga' (or known as var Cliftonii). Those plants will always be a reminder to me of the generosity of those people who I really had only spoken to via email one or two times. They quite happily offered and sent seed overseas to me to give me a start on those varieties. I imagine you'll all hear the cheers when I eventually get any flowers . And SO many of my interesting treasures come from two friends here in Australia... one here in Canberra, and one in Tasmania. There are so many plants in my collection that I associate with them that I really couldn't chose 1 plant that was a memory of them, but more of a Genus that would be a memory would be more fitting . My Galanthus and Aroid collections respectively would be fractions of their current size without them. This is just the tip of the iceburg I have to say. Plants mean a lot to me when they are given to me by friends, acquaintances and even strangers. I think that this sort of memory epitomises the wonderfully generous nature of so many gardeners around the world. Then again, I think that half the enjoyment I GET from my gardens is associated with the joys of receiving and nurturing those plants. Hey, I'm a sentimental type and I can't help it. This has been an interesting discussion. It has been good to hear from others and know that I am not completely strange in my associations of certain plants with certain people . Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From dells@voicenet.com Wed Jul 30 08:56:33 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Reposting of Pacific BX 35; It is still open! Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:59:25 -0400 Most items are still available: Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 35" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer for your order. This is a charge to defray costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. From Paul Tyerman: SEED: 1. Lachenalia pallida 2. Albuca altissima (this seed was harvested 18 months ago) From Mary Sue Ittner: BULBS: 3. Camassia leichtlinii--winter growing, seedlings, not big enough to bloom so haven't confirmed identity 4. Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus--bulblets, evergreen 5. Geissorhiza monanthos--cormlets, small, beautiful flower, picture on the wiki, winter growing 6. Ipheion uniflorum--white, winter growing 7. Ixia monadelpha--blue-violet, cormlets, winter growing 8. Leucocoryne vittae I think, I didn't get all my pots renamed to the correct name and I had some L. purpurea to share so I'm not sure which this is. Both are nice.--winter growing, from Chile, gorgeous flowers SEED , all of winter growing plants: 9. Bellevalia romana 10. Brodiaea jolonensis-low growing one from Southern California, long blooming early 11. Delphinium ulginosum--2nd generation seed from plants grown from 2300 feet in Lake County California. Fleshy, 3 lobed yellowish green leaves in a basal rosette. 12" spikes of blue-purple flowers. Blooms late spring, early summer 12. Geissorhiza heterostyla--purple 13. Lachenalia aloides aurea--gold 14. Lachenalia elegans suaveolens 15. Lachenalia reflexa-yellow 16. Moraea hybrids--By popular request, remember my different colors and combinations of yellows and oranges on the wiki. Can be weedy in areas that are mild and wet in winter 17. Moraea pendula-- This one was open pollinated, growing near the ones above so probably is a hybrid 18. Pelargonium incrassatum--just a few seeds, wonderful flowers, see on the wiki 19. Romulea citrina--yellow 20. Sparaxis bulbifera--white 21. Sparaxis grandiflora violacea (also a few cormlets)--wiki picture 22. Triteleia ixioides scabra--Seed could be hybridized, the original plants are tall, early blooming and long blooming, vigorous nice bright yellow Thank you, Paul and Mary Sue !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed Jul 30 16:34:49 2003 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Wiki photos of several species Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:34:41 -0700 I uploaded a bunch of photos of several things that are blooming right now: Alstroemeria spectabilis (Cyrtanthus sanguineus X C.loddigesianus) X C. sanguineus Hypoxis sp. #3 Argentina Pelargonium sidoides - black flowered form Sinningia 'Tante' Eucharis fosteri http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Alstroemeria-spectabilis.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Cyrt-sangXloddXsang.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hypoxis-sp-3-Argentina.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Pelargonium-sidoides-Black.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Sinningia-Tante2.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Eucharis-fosteri2.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Eucharis-fosteri.jpg Enjoy, -- --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jul 31 13:13:31 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030731092552.00d743c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:09:24 -0700 Dear All, I've really enjoyed this topic a lot with images of bulbs seen in the wild and remembrances of special people and the bulbs connected with them. Paul's post resonated with me. I too have been appreciative of bulbs and seeds shared with me and they are forever connected with the person who shared them. Many of those people are on this list and it would take a lot of space to list them all. A few of my favorites that bring me pleasure every year are the Leucocorynes and Nothoscordums from Bill Dijk, the Lachenalias from Mark Mazer and Dell, the Veltheimias from Doug Westfall, the Pasithea from Jim Forrest, and the Sandersonias and a few other choice items from Dirk Wallace. There are two people who had special importance in getting me passionate about bulbs. One of them was Wayne Roderick. He is a familiar name to a lot of you as he has written a number of articles in the NARGS bulletin and has lectured frequently. He is responsible for introducing a lot of people to California's bulbs since he has supplied the Dutch with specimens that they have reproduced. I have heard him lecture quite a number of times and have been in his company a number of times too when we have attended the same events. When I moved to my present location, I watched my perennials dwindle away because they could not compete with redwood roots. I overheard Wayne telling someone else that he had turned to bulbs for this very reason. He advertises blooms every month of the year without watering. Twice a year he opens his garden to visitors. Once a number of us gathered together to see his bulbs at his spring open house. The one that caught my attention was Tropaeolum tricolor that was scampering on a support. He later gave extras to California Horticultural Society and I eventually inherited some from my friend Jana. So it is my memory bulb for Wayne although our local rare and endangered Fritillaria called biflora biflora in Jepson, but F. roderickii but some of us in resistance is another. Finally in 1989 I attended a Plantsman's conference at UC Berkeley that had an even bigger impact. One of the speakers was Stan Farwig who with his partner Vic Girard had a fantastic collection of bulbs that they grew in pots in their backyard, mostly grown from seed. The year is significant since it was a year later I think when an arctic freeze hit in December that wiped out most of their collection (California natives excepted.) They gave up then and gave what was left of their bulbs to UC Santa Cruz where I understand from Jane McGary they have been lost because of predators. Stan's talk was on Bulbs of the Southern Hemisphere and I started checking the ones I wanted to grow and when there were too many checks, double checking for emphasis. And sometimes I just ended up double checking the entire genus. I like to drag out that plant list from time to time and see how many of the ones I have checked I have finally gotten to bloom. Stan also had a hand out that day called, "A non-concise guide to the cultivation of bulbs." I thought it was brilliant and have reread it often. In it he wrote about not giving up on seed pots if they had not germinated saying that seed of Juno iris had taken four years to germinate. He followed that with this statement, "Less you find that too depressing, let me recount the remarkable performance of one of the loveliest and most neglected of our native bulbs, Alophia drummondii. Seed of it was sown in the third week of February, germination took place in the second week of March and it yielded its first flower on July 5th." Because this is a bulb from Texas and I lived there for a number of years, after reading that statement I wanted to grow this plant and I started requesting seed whenever I saw it listed. So from 1990 on I started seed hoping that within a few months I'd have blooms. I got blooms, but never that quickly and never of Alophia drummondii. What I got was almost always Herbertia lahue. Then in the NARGS seed exchange I saw wild collected seed being offered and thought maybe the person who collected it knew what it was so the seed could have been labeled correctly. I was excited when I opened my order and found I had received it. I couldn't find the article from Stan and couldn't remember when to start it, so I split the package and started some then and some in the fall. The first sown 2/15/02 germinated 5/31/02 and the second sown 10/24/03 germinated 4/4/03. Obviously I don't have the Farwig touch, but just in time for this topic the first lot has bloomed and it is indeed Alophia drummondii. I hope I can keep it going as it will become my memory plant for Stan Farwig whose enthusiasm and beautiful pictures started me on the path to appreciating and growing so many Southern Hemisphere bulbs. If anyone wants to see what this bulb really looks like I made a wiki page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Alophia Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu Jul 31 13:29:18 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476D338F0@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Memory Bulbs--TOW Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:29:41 -0500 Hi Mary Sue: I can see why you were so persistent in getting seeds of Alophia drummondii. Spectacular flower. I had no idea this Tigridia look-alike was native to east Texas. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org - From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jul 31 23:38:13 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030731201911.00cb2100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Archives and Passwords Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:36:17 -0700 Dear All, John asked about the archives several days ago and I replied privately to him thinking I had sent the message to everyone. When I removed the message that I was asked to remove from the archives it created a problem in the archives. This kind of thing is not uncommon when you are the first to try out new extensions to software. I had noticed the problem before John mentioned it and had already written ibiblio support. Our messages were not archived for quite a few days and any message that had any problem with it ended up in the latest archives regardless of when it was written. Our messages are now being archived again and I are working with support to find a way to get the others included as well. I don't know yet whether we will be able to fix the messages with mistakes. If not they will be deleted. Once again I am appreciated that our list is being sponsored by a group that will work with you when there are problems. It may be a few days before you will see the difference when you check the July 2003 archives. Another reminder is that everyone should get their password tomorrow. Please make a note of it or immediately use it to create a password that you can remember. Mary Sue PBS List Adminstrator