Thanks Hamish. I have lived most of my life within 2 miles of Cliveden and am forever correcting visitors pronunciation from long i to short, when they want to go there. Note it is this one http://www.windsor.gov.uk/attractions/cliveden.htm not this one http://www.cliveden.org/ where my guess is they pronounce it differently. Maybe someone in Pennsylvania can tell us. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, UK > Now, hold on friend! The surname Clive was pronounced as "cliff" by Clive > of India and probably so by Lady Clive who married a near descendant of > his. > This pronunciation still exists in the place name "Cliveden" - the place on > the Thames where the Cliveden set used to meet. Go to Cliveden now > (National Trust property, gardens open to the public, house with limited > access as it is used as a hotel) and hear the locals! In these examples, > the modern word cliff derives from clive in turn coming from the > Anglo-Saxon word for, would you believe it, 'cliff'. So perhaps it is the > letter 'v' sound that is wrong as well as a short 'i'. > One further thought. If you do a spell check in Outlook 97, the word > 'clive' is not in its dictionary. The first suggested replacement is > 'cliff'.